You are right that the timbral quality of classical music has little room for acceptable deviation. However, even the best engineer can't account for the variety of opinions there are on what it SHOULD sound like. I'm a sound engineer also a serious classical musician, and I hang out with lots of people who are one or the other. Whenever I go to a performance with 5 people sitting in the same place in the hall, there are 5 different opinions on the quality of the sound (leaving aside balance issues -- which in theory should be a conductor's decision -- and yet that still produces mixed interpretations of what actually happened...). Every room itself plays havoc with the tonal quality of instruments with complex overtones. Each instrument on stage is shaped differently and made of different materials. Each player handles it differently. Players and ensembles have unique sounds that vary all the time -- although this is less true today than it was even 100 years ago because of the desire to mimic the sound of famous recordings. Anyway, while I agree it's important to point out the small tolerance for tonal deviance to an INDIVIDUAL, I disagree that there isn't room for differences across the genre-- and emphasize that there's a strong history and culture of uniqueness. But it's like you say: as long as the engineer has a vision and the skills in which to achieve it in an amplified setting, that's what matters.
he speaks about the range in the criteria for correctness. The range of styles in classical mixing is anyway not narrow. But both are more narrow than what is allowed in electroacoustic and electronic music, although it is still hard to know what the right techniques are.
Thank you. I dabble in tuning car audio but there isn't much info out there so I try to gain insight from home audio and sound engineers and think of ways to implement this insight.
AGREED, principally if you compose and mix ambitious works. It is very easy to mess up with details, very easy to get lost in the dynamics. You don’t have ready made tips and things like 10000 videos on drums compression for rock.
Thanks for the reality of this. Classical has to sound 'right.' Pop has to be 'exciting.' I live near a large outdoor venue for The Cleveland Orchestra and rock concerts, Blossom Music Center. Under the amphitheatre/shelter, the audience hears the orchestra. Outside, on the hillside, the audience hears almost entirely amplified sound. A miracle is that most of the outdoor audience believes they are hearing direct sound from the stage. It's that well done. Then, the very next day come the scaffolds and trusses, lights and speaker stacks, pyrotechnics and projections that mark a rock concert. The classical system is basically unused, as inappropriate. And they are right. I suppose the classical concert mixer gets 'show up time' from the union, or something.
Two points: The outdoor "stage" should be considered, open space, a wall available, or a roof of some sort. Size of group etc. Two - I'm a Cuban-American. In the cuban cuture we do not distinguish between Classical and the more "popular" music. It's all music. Great video.
This is interesting.... as a classically trained orchestral musician what I hear when you are applying different extreme EQ curves the the violin and oboe are they sound like they are in different rooms as the EQ changes. Also, they started to sound like student-level instruments to my ears.
i think the most essential is to have good mixed clasical masters always ready for A/B comparisons (goes for any genre to have some references) no way ... i think to get this right just using your mentioned advice. To many mistakes can happen. I recommend listen to good masters any few minutes. And of course you have to know what qualities you are goin to compare and listen always in realtime through... at least 3-4 different loudspeakers... that is compare your work with a good master but on your mobile device.. but hey.. Thanks for the video😊
Not sure that the title of this video is very appropriate - I came here looking for some simple tips and guidelines on mixing classical music, not a video that basically gripes about how most people do it wrong based on pop/rock standards.
it's a lot of griping for sure. but the tips are near the end, those exercises with EQ and familiarity with the raw sound of classical instruments are 90% of the job in our opinion. the reason we spend so much time griping beforehand is that, in our experience, a lot of people won't otherwise understand the need for these things. when people understand the problem, the solution makes a lot more sense...
Alpha Sound I agree with you, true classical engineering would train you to be creative and experimental and not follow the rules. You’re better off understanding the basics of how sound travels rather than which nob to turn on the console.
I think that a fundamental reason for the unacceptability for deviation in classical is because of the fact that most other forms of music are still being invented to a degree including the oldest types of modern music such as jazz.
Het valt mij op dat velen achter de mengtafel dezelfde fouten maken Neem de moeite om de 0dB te vinden in de opname🤔 het aantal bits bepaald de haalbare dynamiek 24 bit is -144 dB tot 0 dB we weten allemaal, dat is boven de (120 dB) pijngrens Voor de track op te slaan, de 0 dB (is maximale geluidsweergave) behouden Dit is de oorzaak dat niet alle CD's even hard klinken De sample (bijvoorbeeld) 96 kHz frequentie bepaald de hoogst haalbare 48.000 Hertz (Stereo) frequentie Elke opname is tegenwoordig digitaal omdaf het bewerken veel makkelijker is dan analoog De 2e fout is de EQ aanpassingen Bij een goed instrument is elke EQ aanpassing 'n verslechtering van de opname Zorg voor' n goede plaatsing van de microfoon(s) Als de akoestiek goed is, laat deze dan ook horen door de microfoons te verplaatsen Zorg voor goede monitors, de subwoofer is ook 'n must Is er geen natuurlijke reflectie, gebruik dan reverb apparatuur anders klinkt het te mat De panpot links/rechts is evenals de fader instelling(en) belangrijk voor het 3D effect Links/Rechts is via de koptelefoon (logisch) hoorbaar Maar de diepte is alleen via luidsprekerboxen (monitors) hoorbaar
Classical music live? Use good microphones, place them correctly. Only highpass filters and time alignment (towards the audience) Creating depth with reverb and thats it. Sounds extremly good on any classical orchestra.Good and bad can easily determent by how close the sound is to the unamplified ensemble.
The technique i use for mixing, wich has served me well over the years, is to just make the thing sound good.
😂
This channel is awesome... I watched a few things and all of this is inspiring. Thank you for that.
Dave Moulton Golden Ears. Really good trainning for your brain! Excelent channel!!
Your sass and rants were fun to listen to. I enjoyed it.
You are right that the timbral quality of classical music has little room for acceptable deviation. However, even the best engineer can't account for the variety of opinions there are on what it SHOULD sound like. I'm a sound engineer also a serious classical musician, and I hang out with lots of people who are one or the other. Whenever I go to a performance with 5 people sitting in the same place in the hall, there are 5 different opinions on the quality of the sound (leaving aside balance issues -- which in theory should be a conductor's decision -- and yet that still produces mixed interpretations of what actually happened...). Every room itself plays havoc with the tonal quality of instruments with complex overtones. Each instrument on stage is shaped differently and made of different materials. Each player handles it differently. Players and ensembles have unique sounds that vary all the time -- although this is less true today than it was even 100 years ago because of the desire to mimic the sound of famous recordings. Anyway, while I agree it's important to point out the small tolerance for tonal deviance to an INDIVIDUAL, I disagree that there isn't room for differences across the genre-- and emphasize that there's a strong history and culture of uniqueness. But it's like you say: as long as the engineer has a vision and the skills in which to achieve it in an amplified setting, that's what matters.
he speaks about the range in the criteria for correctness. The range of styles in classical mixing is anyway not narrow. But both are more narrow than what is allowed in electroacoustic and electronic music, although it is still hard to know what the right techniques are.
I always have, as a sound engineer, a musical director beside me. Someone who can read musical scores, and knows what the conductor wants.
Thank you. I dabble in tuning car audio but there isn't much info out there so I try to gain insight from home audio and sound engineers and think of ways to implement this insight.
thank you! this explains a lot of what i hear (or don't hear) when listening to classical music!!
AGREED, principally if you compose and mix ambitious works. It is very easy to mess up with details, very easy to get lost in the dynamics. You don’t have ready made tips and things like 10000 videos on drums compression for rock.
Thanks for the reality of this. Classical has to sound 'right.' Pop has to be 'exciting.'
I live near a large outdoor venue for The Cleveland Orchestra and rock concerts, Blossom Music Center. Under the amphitheatre/shelter, the audience hears the orchestra. Outside, on the hillside, the audience hears almost entirely amplified sound. A miracle is that most of the outdoor audience believes they are hearing direct sound from the stage. It's that well done.
Then, the very next day come the scaffolds and trusses, lights and speaker stacks, pyrotechnics and projections that mark a rock concert. The classical system is basically unused, as inappropriate. And they are right. I suppose the classical concert mixer gets 'show up time' from the union, or something.
Thanks for saying this publicly, it is true that is extremely hard to do it right. Blessing from Kosovo.
Two points: The outdoor "stage" should be considered, open space, a wall available, or a roof of some sort. Size of group etc. Two - I'm a Cuban-American. In the cuban cuture we do not distinguish between Classical and the more "popular" music. It's all music. Great video.
This is interesting.... as a classically trained orchestral musician what I hear when you are applying different extreme EQ curves the the violin and oboe are they sound like they are in different rooms as the EQ changes. Also, they started to sound like student-level instruments to my ears.
i think the most essential is to have good mixed clasical masters always ready for A/B comparisons (goes for any genre to have some references) no way ... i think to get this right just using your mentioned advice. To many mistakes can happen. I recommend listen to good masters any few minutes. And of course you have to know what qualities you are goin to compare and listen always in realtime through... at least 3-4 different loudspeakers... that is compare your work with a good master but on your mobile device.. but hey.. Thanks for the video😊
Not sure that the title of this video is very appropriate - I came here looking for some simple tips and guidelines on mixing classical music, not a video that basically gripes about how most people do it wrong based on pop/rock standards.
it's a lot of griping for sure. but the tips are near the end, those exercises with EQ and familiarity with the raw sound of classical instruments are 90% of the job in our opinion. the reason we spend so much time griping beforehand is that, in our experience, a lot of people won't otherwise understand the need for these things. when people understand the problem, the solution makes a lot more sense...
Alpha Sound I agree with you, true classical engineering would train you to be creative and experimental and not follow the rules. You’re better off understanding the basics of how sound travels rather than which nob to turn on the console.
It’s a great video as an
entry into the topic. Now practical tutorials could follow.
How do I find you on social media by the way?
Excellent tutorial. Bravo from Africa and UK. ONeLOVe
I think that a fundamental reason for the unacceptability for deviation in classical is because of the fact that most other forms of music are still being invented to a degree including the oldest types of modern music such as jazz.
Het valt mij op dat velen achter de mengtafel dezelfde fouten maken
Neem de moeite om de 0dB te vinden in de opname🤔
het aantal bits bepaald de haalbare dynamiek 24 bit is -144 dB tot 0 dB
we weten allemaal, dat is boven de (120 dB) pijngrens
Voor de track op te slaan, de 0 dB (is maximale geluidsweergave) behouden
Dit is de oorzaak dat niet alle CD's even hard klinken
De sample (bijvoorbeeld) 96 kHz frequentie bepaald de hoogst haalbare 48.000 Hertz (Stereo) frequentie
Elke opname is tegenwoordig digitaal omdaf het bewerken veel makkelijker is dan analoog
De 2e fout is de EQ aanpassingen
Bij een goed instrument is elke EQ aanpassing 'n verslechtering van de opname
Zorg voor' n goede plaatsing van de microfoon(s)
Als de akoestiek goed is, laat deze dan ook horen door de microfoons te verplaatsen
Zorg voor goede monitors, de subwoofer is ook 'n must
Is er geen natuurlijke reflectie, gebruik dan reverb apparatuur anders klinkt het te mat
De panpot links/rechts is evenals de fader instelling(en) belangrijk voor het 3D effect
Links/Rechts is via de koptelefoon (logisch) hoorbaar
Maar de diepte is alleen via luidsprekerboxen (monitors) hoorbaar
Classical music live? Use good microphones, place them correctly. Only highpass filters and time alignment (towards the audience) Creating depth with reverb and thats it. Sounds extremly good on any classical orchestra.Good and bad can easily determent by how close the sound is to the unamplified ensemble.
cool cool !
That’s painful to see you using that much gain in your eq
Useless informations
Why, Sir Schopenhauer?
@@emanuel_soundtrack Philosophy more than practical .. Good for art students or history classes .