DO OVAL CHAIN-RINGS WORK?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- Do Oval Chain Rings (Osymetric, Q Rings etc) work for Cycling? I get Bike Fit James and George from Jam Cycling to argue about it. Shame there wasn't a fight tho.
/ francis_cade
/ francisccade
/ franccade
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I started filming stuff in April 2016. Now we're travelling the world and filming it, I'd forget what I've done otherwise.
I feel like coach ken needs to pipe up on this one :)
I think you need more of an explanation of what a ‘dead spot’ is before you go trying to find it or trying to fix it. In my opinion it is simply a part of the pedal stroke where your effort is not pushing the bike forwards.
Oval chain rings can help mask a bad pedal technique by providing less resistance at the point where the rider is not pushing as hard or is not able to push as hard. Different gearing at each part of the pedal revolution provide varying levels of resistance to push against. This hopefully answers james’ question on how it can alter pedal technique when the foot is moving through the same space.
Bike fit can give you the best possible chance of being able to pedal correctly however you can still have poor technique in the perfect riding position.
There are tools out there to look at your pedal technique in a ‘polar view’ and see how you are applying force through the pedals. Visualising it is the best way to see if it needs fixing and feel what good technique feels like. That way you can take the feeling out on the road with you and apply it to a real world scenario.
If there is too large a difference in the amount of power you’re applying throughout various parts of the pedal stroke then the bike could potentially be speeding up and slowing down every revolution which is very inefficient. It takes less energy to maintain a speed than it does to get there in the first place, so if you can iron out those tiny accelerations and be as smooth as possible you’ll get more speed out of the bike for the same effort.
Over and out
Ken Buckley Here’s my attempt to describe what they do... it increases glute and quad activation by mimicking a larger gear during the peak power phase. Basically you either spend more time engaging your biggest muscles in that peak power phase, or you spend the same amount of time by briefly increasing your power. This is often where power meters get confused...they do not sample cadence at a high enough frequency to measure changes in angular velocity inside one revolution. Something like the Infocrank doesn’t have this problem because it records data at 256Hz. Oval rings are for people who do not believe in scraping through the bottom of the pedal stroke or pulling up...its all about maximizing power or time spent in the peak power phase.
I suppose it comes down to where you think the biggest losses from inefficiency occur...from trying to pedal perfectly round using a larger proportion of weaker skeletal muscles or from micro-accelerations / inertia. For me oval rings increased comfort enough that I wished they didn’t severely compromise front shifting.
Imagine if Ken, George and James sat around a round table talked abt bikes and some controversial topics
haxhxm that should be a monthly video far as I'm concerned!! 😃
YES KEN
YES...I think?.....😵
My understanding of oval chain rings is that they reduce the time during the pedal stroke where the rider is not able to produce a lot of power and that is in the dead spot. They do that by reducing the lever length of the chain ring and thus it requires less force to go through the dead spot phase. This makes it easier to run at a higher cadence with the same lever as on a normal chain ring or you can run a chainring with a bigger lever in the "power zone" and still have the same cadence as with your normal chain ring. In my opinion it is an advantage.
I like how James always takes in a massive amount of air before he gets serious about a topic. it happens on all of the bike fit videos, maybe you should compile them. Check out 7:27. you'll know what I'm talking about.
Good to see Chris back in action.
It seems to me that oval chainrings are like shifting from a higher gear when the cranks are 90 degrees to the line between your hip and the spindle to a lower gear when your cranks are parallel to the line between your hip and your spindle. Less mechanical advantage where you can generate the most power and more mechanical advantage and a shorter duration spent where you can't generate as much. A 52 tooth oval is about the same as a 55 round ring on the long axis and about a 48 on the short axis. There is no free lunch. Power is power, you might not have as much drop off during any revolution but you still have to do the work. Assiamo pedals are supposed to measure ovals accurately. The important thing, but not the only thing, I got from your discussion was the effect of saddle height on the dead spot. I had my bike fitted and Jim Manton lowered my saddle and it smoothed me out considerably. Thank you for adding to the conversation.
I love these blogs, with two of the most interesting and fascinating guys divulging their knowledge and theories. I could watch a feature length film of them discussing just a singular aspect of cycling.
I love the trepidation around answering a bike-fit related question around James. He is a true professional, with great consistency noticed it in the original bike fit when he was sans beard and every video since. Definitely a draw card IMHO.
Good work on the vid and it’s a shame that Aus gave you the left right goodnight for a few days.
1:03
- Meteoroids: piece of cometary of asteroidal material.
- Meteor: the streak of light you see when a meteoroid enters the atmosphere and starts burning.
- meteorite: the piece of a meteoroid that made it to the earth's surface without burning up.
As an experienced bike fitter, the ideal scenario is to apply as constant force as you can through as much of the pedal stroke as possible. Upper body position is an important and overlooked element to this, it's hard to maintain a decent amount of force with a slightly rearward tilt at the pelvis for example.
The beard game is strong with this bunch.
Meteors are asteroids that burn up in the Earth's atmosphere, meteorites are asteroids that survive coming through the atmosphere and hit the surface.
sobriety22 #ScienceDoping
I thought it was a type of pizza
I own 3 pairs of chainrings for my road bike. The original 6800 52-36, absolute black 52-36 and Osymetric 50-34. I am faster with the osymetric! It's on strava... My optimal cadence Is 92-95 with round and AB oval and I am at 100 to 110 and I still feel really good with the osymetric. I prefer AB over round for 1 thing only, I dont have to change gears if I'm out of the saddle, I accelerate and still feel comftable. I also ride oval on my MTB bike, traction is way better and for racing it's a must.
Nice to see Chris and that he is getting better.
How the hell was James' cross-eyed face in reaction to your dead spot joke not the Thumbnail for this vid?!
I've run an oval for the last 2 years. And while i don't feel any increase in power or output. The pedal stroke does seem a bit more smooth. It's most noticable climbing.
Variable Gearing 😎
11:03
Walrus - the new scent by Calvin Klein
‘Dominate the club like a walrus dominates the beach’
Oh how much I would pay to be a fly on the wall when you lads get together and talk about cycling....
Rotor QRing 30T on a 1x12 is so smooth for climbing/grinding it out!! I've ridden the same climbs with my oval and 32T Eagle round and my legs feel less effort/lactic on the oval, my heart rate also stays lower..... I won't go back to round rings.PS great vlog, more like this please Mr C....
Its Variable Gearing You Just Need To Adj Your Input = 😁 i just ordered a 30RF For my CF Warden Currently Using a Round 28RF .
I like the fact you have two opinions on the subject matter. I think this format works better (no offence James)!
Glad to see you back in sunny ol’ Blighty ⚡️👊🏼⚡️
That music is a throw back to one of your first redhook videos that got me into cycling in the first place... Cheers mate, haven't looked back. You're a hero.
Does one need a beard to partake in these sorts of conversations?
+Matt Beedham yes
24th march🤔
Rad Race last man standing in Berlin?
Chris is back! It's like Chrismas!
2:25 track stand goalsssss
Did Chris lose weight he looks a lil more lean
My sole understanding of oval rings from a geometric perspective is that it helps with grinding, especially when out of the saddle and with flat pedals, where crank rotation isn't constant. In a circular chainring, that inconsistent rotation immediately translates (and might even be aggravated due to gear ratios) to uneven wheel rotational speed.
Oval chainrings 'nerf' the part of the pedaling strokes with the highest rotational speed by effectively having less teeth in that range, while also 'boosting' the area of the strokes with the lowest rotational speed by effectively having more teeth in the other range.
This should theoretically translate your sinusoidal-ish, inconsistent crank rotation into a much more even and constant angular speed of the wheel, possibly preserving the angular momentum of the wheel.
But in order for oval chainrings to be comprehensively effective, the chainring should be be specifically shaped and tailored to a specific pedaling technique or an individual style.
Also, the results would get murky under several real-life variables, such as external factors and human imperfection.
I happened to have oval chainrings come on a tt bought from a friend. I didnt really care that they were on there nor was i in a hurry to remove. My first ride was 15km easy through the city from Ldn bridge to Ally pally and immediately i noticed a difference. On my downstroke on both left and right sides there was a spot where the resistance just suddenly stopped. I can only describe it as the feeling you get when putting power down on a fixed wheel with a loose sprocket. However, under power i found that this effect had been reduced and that when riding at threshold or above i felt no difference.
Oval chainrings increased my comfort and therefore increased my ability to put out threshold or VO2Max. It did not increase my maximal power obviously, and it was an absolute pain when combined with SRAM eTap... I’ve tried all combinations of derailleur height, yaw, shimming, etc. The derailleur would always throw the chain over the big ring when shifting under load while in the middle of the cassette. I hear Shimano FDs are a bit less fuss with oval rings, but I’m not willing to give up eTap. If I ever switch to 1x, I will go back to non-round rings for sure.
omg i saw you on the lms starter list but thought you won't start!
see you there
I have been riding with oval chainrings for a few years now and it is very simple it is normal physics and no problems with shifting at all
A question or topic ...
As you are getting back into Racing. It would be nice to see some transparency on your choices/set up for us budding noobs (& our wee kids). Getting into racing is a mine field of products (as touched on in this Vid).
Example questions, what width tyres will you race on & why? & why are there only 23mm options for 650c wheels (personal rant)?!?
Thanks again & see you on the track
⚡️👊🏼⚡️
Great show Mr Cade
Would be great to see a bike fit Monday video talking about Bars. Shapes, reach, aero pro's and con's
No Earth shattering ka-boom, probably a good thing. Excellent video.
Meteorite is a meteor that has "landed".
Watching this video makes me more thankful that I live in Southern California!
Good to see you're also getting lovely weather over the water hahahahaha
i wanna go oval. no idea how to go about this though. i have a shimano crankset with otherwise perfectly sized chainrings
Just use the old Shimano biopace rings that you can get on eBay for 15-35 dollars or so. Rotate the ring on the five arm spider to get the high gear part of the ring at the 3:30 O'Clock crankarm position, as in the power position. Biopace was ass backwards the way they were supposed to be mounted. The low gear was at the power spot and the high gear was in dead zone. Their thinking was wrong and backwards. Just turn them on the spider 5 arms and make it the right way. Actually they are better than q rings because they are "ramped up" to the high gear part of the oval, hence the weird shape, which is just an oval with the low point buldging (ramping) up to the high gear point. AND, they are WAY CHEAPER than W-2 rings. They come in the 130 bolt circle. I use the old triple 74,110 bolt circle crank. Biopace 48 , 44 , and round 24 granny gear. Called a half step plus granny gear triple crank. Back is 14,17,21,26,32. Old school, all you need. 10 cogs, what the hell.
been thinking of getting some for a while, still undecided james makes a good point of bike set up over product hype .still on the fence
Looks like rain stopped play. 😂
Bike fit can-of-worms: why do many pros ride slightly too small frames? Is there any advantage?
I believe its so they can get the bar height lower. They compensate by typically having longer stems. (So the drop from seat to bars is further than us normal humble human beings! )
I just watch this videos for James and his wisdom.
Sorry Francis!
How do you clean bikes in a flat like that? I just about managed taking everything downstairs when I was on the third floor, but that high up...?
Tour de France victories say they do
Great content video! By the way what camera you using?
For the review go to 5:43
Fuck me. Beardy rapha boy likes the sounds of his own voice, doesn’t he!
8:50... heres the point - the bike industry, sadly, has many 'snake oil' sales people in it.
Too often, parts/standards are forced on us (by reducing availability of good quality 'old' components) only to be replaced again, or the original versions brought back, always at a higher price, with some attempt at being called "new".
Granted, not often/always the case, and some new parts or standards do even improve things (although maybe not by as much as those marketing them would have you believe, or maybe even noticable for most people) but still happens too much.
My issue is the way it's done - by removing choice. Poor show. Cycling should be accesible for all and shouldn't involve scrapping a great bike because you can't get decent parts anymore.
Watching this from 2022 because i try to use oval chainring
Missed bikefituesdays filmedonamonday 🙂
Hi. I see that you and James have both the Oakley Jawbreaker glasses. I'm looking to by this model and I'm curious about what lenses do you guys have. What do you recommend? Prizm/polarized/photochromic? Thanks
Prizm road, my most used lens. You can wear it until it's almost dark!
Francis Cade cool. Thank you. I'm oscillating between road and trail version.
really interesting video
hello, engineer talking. So theoretically if you are able to simulate more teeth on the traditional power phase of a pedal stroke, you will be able to get more torque and therefore more ACCELERATION. now by how much? I'm not too sure. I am also a lazy engineer. This is considering pedal stroke power to be like a sinusoidal wave.
When u can't cycle cos u fell down and cut ur knee during the rain. London's weather and singapore weather is nearly the same because it's really unpredictable
he's left the size sticker on his hat....may i ask, WTF is all that about?
I nearly called him out on that.
Great vlog
What company makes James' bike? I couldn't see a name. great discussion!
Eric Cornell www.autumnframeworks.com
Thanks!
Where is the fist pump?
Oval rings look weird when you ride along next to a convert but i actually think they look cool
come to england they said, i'd be rainy they said...
Meteor’s are in the sky and become meteorites when they land. Year 9 science finally coming good 😅
i likey my ovals makes me feel like i'm always on the stroke no slack efforts. cant wait to get the insurance claim sorted and get back on ze road
Lee valley I’m going to be race under 14 there
What do you use for recording ?
Sony a7s ii!
Oh cool ! That is a big camera to bring while riding :D
That one handed track stand tho... 2:34
A meteorite is the name given to the rock if it hits the earth. It's a meteor if there is no impact and it simply passes us by on its journey. That, I believe is the answer.
Things you learn in prison:
_ Shanking
_ Lifting
_ Handwriting
Chess Frome uses oval chain rings and that bloke really knows his shit
He's also a product billboard for stuff.
Geek Jam :D
Great info square rings. Sorry oval. Never knew
The bottom of the stroke?
Right foot: yeah, the bottom of the stroke...
Left foot: :-/
Who remembers Biopace?
😂they were horrid,wish I'd kept the one I had in '90 tho,just for a laugh🤔
Lift! Lift! Lift! Lift!
oval rings are great to hide a doping programme behind.
Ooooooh!
You guys need to trade in your Sony camera for a Canon M50 which properly auto focuses. The Sony's AF is pathetic!
The new Sony's are great
The AF is not even remotely close to Canon's Dual Pixel. You to a shop and compare the two. The Canon instantly picks up focus and locks in. @@Cade_Media
Image/footage quality, yes. Video AF, no.@@Cade_Media
Hypothermia rocks!!!
crocknorth isn't 20% Francis. not in a million years...
+canofbeans 19.4%