Wonderful & Thanks for sharing & explaining the maths formula mate. Have been trying to look for that for sometime as am a bit of a maths fanatic. Greetings from UK.
Hello Ashley. I recently purchased a set of Arc MT006 hubs, 100/135 QR. I'm currently preparing for a wheel and need to figure out the correct spoke lengths. I'm using the WTB KOM light i25 rims with an ERD of 604mm. (Rim weight: 455g) I've been told that you should add about 3mm to the rim ERD to account for the spoke nipples, which =707. Is that a correct practice? How much should I add to the rim to account for the nipple? The technical diagram available for the Arc MT006 is a bit confusing, and I can't seem to figure out what the correct flange circle diameter is. The measurements I input where. Front hub: 32H, lacing 3x, weight:160g Width 100mm. PCD: 58/45, Nut to Flange: 28.1/ 13.7, Nut to center: 21/36.3. Rear hub: 32H, lacing 3x, weight 240g, width 135mm, PCD: 58/44, nut to Flange: 31.57/48.15, Flange to centre: 36/20. The hub uses 14G spokes. Recommended nipple length is 12mm? When using the DT Swiss calculator the total recommended spoke lengths come out at, Front (L/R): 293mm/294mm. Rear (L/R): 294mm/295mm. Could you possibly tell me if I have gone about the calculation correctly?
@@bicycleguruWhat do you recommend for spokes, with regard to heavy people and packing on the bike. Butted or no butted spokes, f.e. thicker spokes 12G (2.6mm). I want a real strong rear wheel, 4 cross. I just bought the Andra Ryde 40 rim, heavy duty. But I'm not sure what kind of spokes to use
@@Ad-wv8zt If I was building a wheel like you are asking about I would use DT Swiss Alpine (DT ALPINE SILVER 2.34 / 2.0), not the triple butted ones or black. Despite contrary belief both spokes with thinner middles and coloured spokes are more prone to breakage for reasons I am not going to go into now. I always use DT Swiss Champion 2mm silver spokes unless there is a need to go bigger and stronger like you have or I am doing something exotic with bladed spokes for example. I'd build the rear 4 cross and maybe 3 cross for the front depending on what sort of load the front of the bike was carrying. I would also tie and solder the rear wheel and again the front depending on the same. The front wheel needs to have more compliance than the rear, so you want to be careful not to do overdo it making it really stiff. I do have some more videos for wheel building on my list which do include spoke counts, patterns and tie and soldering. I have been getting some other stuff up to judge the route the channel will go and make it more diverse. Eventually I'd run out of wheel building tips! When are you planning on building and ultimately starting to use these wheels?
@@bicycleguru i am doing researching right now, and ordering stuff,wanna make a ride of 2500km in the Netherlands with luggage front and rear. . I have done a ride of 600km without issues, on a regular touringbike, made the wheels myself, now i wanna do more distance
Hi Ashley. Question here. If i get for my rear wheel this result for spoke length L 296.3mm and R 294.6mm. [4-cross] What should i do? And, how do you round the numbers? everything below 5 becomes 0 and above 5 plus 1 ? So for this calculation it will be 296, and 295, or should i take average 295,45 for both sides. ?
Good Q @Ad and one I have to think about myself sometimes. Let's start with the most important part of this, what type of hub are you using? If it's 8 speed or less I would be inclined to take a 2mm difference, 9 speed or more 1mm difference. If it's some type of single speed (hub gears included) I would also take a 1mm difference. With the later 2 I mention if you take a 2mm difference the longer spoke side will lack tension for longevity and strength. The other thing to consider is how your previous measurements have come out in practice whether that be using your own measurements and calcs or using a spoke length calculator. Sometimes you have to take a stab in the dark if there isn't enough previous data. My time saving method when there is a lack of previous data (so I don't have to strip the whole wheel down and start again) is to assume on what I decide may be 2mm too short and then I can just go round and swap out the 12mm nipples (assuming that is what you are using) and replace them with 14mm nipples one at a time if it comes up a little short. This is actually quite a quick job if you have made the screwdriver drill bit I made in the wheel building tools video. You can't make the spokes shorter in theory, but if they are too long you could pop each nipple off and put a nipple washer or two under each one. This is more fiddly than having to go longer with because they are a bit short. Getting the exact length right is optimum, but 1mm each way won't really make much difference in reality. Work towards the middle of your calcs... 295/296 is where I'd start. Good luck
@@bicycleguru wow,exactly what i needed to know. I am using a nexus 8 hub (single speed) and used online calculator for the spokes [prowheelbuilder]. The washer idea, is an amazing tip,..because you are right, one side came little bit longer, even the outcome of the calculator. So many thanks Ash
@@Ad-wv8zt Great, stoked it helped you out. A very helpful thing I stumbled into about then years ago that solves a host of problems. Good for strengthening rims with no eyelets... that's what they are really for. Sorry I didn't come back earlier... pretty hectic here! Quickly got back to you on the original Q as I know it was something you needed to know pronto. Hope the build went well.
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Oh my gosh, I’m feeling so stupid,
I would never go to manual calculations, but many thanks for your other tips,,,
👍👆
Wonderful & Thanks for sharing & explaining the maths formula mate. Have been trying to look for that for sometime as am a bit of a maths fanatic. Greetings from UK.
Never thought to work out ERD by nipple subtraction. Will give it a go next time.
Go for it Hertog... I find it's the simplest way.
@@bicycleguru Certainly makes sense.
Hello Ashley. I recently purchased a set of Arc MT006 hubs, 100/135 QR. I'm currently preparing for a wheel and need to figure out the correct spoke lengths. I'm using the WTB KOM light i25 rims with an ERD of 604mm. (Rim weight: 455g) I've been told that you should add about 3mm to the rim ERD to account for the spoke nipples, which =707. Is that a correct practice? How much should I add to the rim to account for the nipple? The technical diagram available for the Arc MT006 is a bit confusing, and I can't seem to figure out what the correct flange circle diameter is. The measurements I input where. Front hub: 32H, lacing 3x, weight:160g Width 100mm. PCD: 58/45, Nut to Flange: 28.1/ 13.7, Nut to center: 21/36.3.
Rear hub: 32H, lacing 3x, weight 240g, width 135mm, PCD: 58/44, nut to Flange: 31.57/48.15, Flange to centre: 36/20. The hub uses 14G spokes. Recommended nipple length is 12mm? When using the DT Swiss calculator the total recommended spoke lengths come out at, Front (L/R): 293mm/294mm. Rear (L/R): 294mm/295mm. Could you possibly tell me if I have gone about the calculation correctly?
Excellent
Thanks @Ad Glad you like it.
@@bicycleguruWhat do you recommend for spokes, with regard to heavy people and packing on the bike. Butted or no butted spokes, f.e. thicker spokes 12G (2.6mm). I want a real strong rear wheel, 4 cross. I just bought the Andra Ryde 40 rim, heavy duty. But I'm not sure what kind of spokes to use
@@Ad-wv8zt If I was building a wheel like you are asking about I would use DT Swiss Alpine (DT ALPINE SILVER 2.34 / 2.0), not the triple butted ones or black. Despite contrary belief both spokes with thinner middles and coloured spokes are more prone to breakage for reasons I am not going to go into now. I always use DT Swiss Champion 2mm silver spokes unless there is a need to go bigger and stronger like you have or I am doing something exotic with bladed spokes for example.
I'd build the rear 4 cross and maybe 3 cross for the front depending on what sort of load the front of the bike was carrying. I would also tie and solder the rear wheel and again the front depending on the same. The front wheel needs to have more compliance than the rear, so you want to be careful not to do overdo it making it really stiff.
I do have some more videos for wheel building on my list which do include spoke counts, patterns and tie and soldering. I have been getting some other stuff up to judge the route the channel will go and make it more diverse. Eventually I'd run out of wheel building tips! When are you planning on building and ultimately starting to use these wheels?
@@bicycleguru i am doing researching right now, and ordering stuff,wanna make a ride of 2500km in the Netherlands with luggage front and rear. . I have done a ride of 600km without issues, on a regular touringbike, made the wheels myself, now i wanna do more distance
Hi Ashley. Question here.
If i get for my rear wheel this result for spoke length L 296.3mm and R 294.6mm. [4-cross] What should i do? And, how do you round the numbers? everything below 5 becomes 0 and above 5 plus 1 ? So for this calculation it will be 296, and 295, or should i take average 295,45 for both sides. ?
Good Q @Ad and one I have to think about myself sometimes. Let's start with the most important part of this, what type of hub are you using? If it's 8 speed or less I would be inclined to take a 2mm difference, 9 speed or more 1mm difference. If it's some type of single speed (hub gears included) I would also take a 1mm difference. With the later 2 I mention if you take a 2mm difference the longer spoke side will lack tension for longevity and strength.
The other thing to consider is how your previous measurements have come out in practice whether that be using your own measurements and calcs or using a spoke length calculator. Sometimes you have to take a stab in the dark if there isn't enough previous data. My time saving method when there is a lack of previous data (so I don't have to strip the whole wheel down and start again) is to assume on what I decide may be 2mm too short and then I can just go round and swap out the 12mm nipples (assuming that is what you are using) and replace them with 14mm nipples one at a time if it comes up a little short. This is actually quite a quick job if you have made the screwdriver drill bit I made in the wheel building tools video.
You can't make the spokes shorter in theory, but if they are too long you could pop each nipple off and put a nipple washer or two under each one. This is more fiddly than having to go longer with because they are a bit short. Getting the exact length right is optimum, but 1mm each way won't really make much difference in reality. Work towards the middle of your calcs... 295/296 is where I'd start. Good luck
@@bicycleguru wow,exactly what i needed to know. I am using a nexus 8 hub (single speed) and used online calculator for the spokes [prowheelbuilder]. The washer idea, is an amazing tip,..because you are right, one side came little bit longer, even the outcome of the calculator. So many thanks Ash
@@bicycleguru i made a mistake, it's not the nexus 8 hub, but a retro Sachs 3x7 Dual drive hub
@@Ad-wv8zt Great, stoked it helped you out. A very helpful thing I stumbled into about then years ago that solves a host of problems. Good for strengthening rims with no eyelets... that's what they are really for.
Sorry I didn't come back earlier... pretty hectic here! Quickly got back to you on the original Q as I know it was something you needed to know pronto. Hope the build went well.
@@Ad-wv8zt LOL