God Bless, Fr. Paul. I'm a russian orthodox christian and i'm happy seeing wise men in the West spreading the trurth. Never had much hope for the US, but recent years it looks like you have great rise of the Orthodox Church. You might be a minor ministry (as a whole), but it is built with people who is on fire for our Lord Jesus Christ and before his eyes you are bigger and strogner than the herotics and unbeliviers. 'So the last shall be first, and the first last'. Keep up the great work and let us hope most of the sheep will be found by the Good Shepherd via the Holy Spirit which dwels in men like yourself. Thank you!
As a catechumen, this is something that’s been really hitting deep for me. and that’s realising how my sins darkens my heart and stop me being able to inspire those around me to come deeper into Christs love Great video as always Father!
Jacob, just realize that as you get closer to baptism, you'll have a life confession with your priest. Confess, sincerely your sins, write everything down if you need to, and you'll feel a massive weight lift off of you. Don't dwell on them. Your sins will be forgiven. You'll be walking on air. It'll be glorious!
@@Jac0bspeaks Of course! If you have a chance to watch some baptisms at your church, do it. You'll love it. We have a new group of baptisms coming up at my church. It's very moving and exciting to witness.
Fr. Paul, your uploads have been such a blessing to me. Thank you for all the trouble you go to in continuing to share your insight, in extending your ministry far beyond the walls of your parish. Much love and heartfelt appreciation, from WA.
Traditional Catholic here. I wish you read comments, as I just want you to know that this talk is mind blowing! I’ve been fed Thomas Aquinas forever. This, what you have explained here, has given me much to contemplate. Truth is truth. More of this, please!
The opposite is also true. In love, we often act as if our loved ones can do no wrong. We distrust our eyes when we see our brother sin and call our eyes liars.
Good! Any mercy you show towards your fellow man will be shown towards you on Judgement Day! "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."
I've recently been seeing a lot of the darkness of my heart, Father, and have been struggling, asking "Why? I've been trying so hard to do the right thing!". What a beacon of light you send me to change my perspective!
There was a man in our catechism who was outraged that female saints joined male monasteries. I believe the lesson was on St. Marinus. The man stood up and shouted "SO SHE LIED?!", he stormed out and never came back to catechism or to our parish.
@@enn4983 Perhaps. I don't mean to judge him but my 1st though was "So YOU have never lied..or done anything else others might find questionable?" I hope he found what he needed.
Regarding the Paisios situation. I think a saint like St. Paisios had probably the right discernment in the situation he was in. The same thing said by someone else in another situation or even in the same situation would probably be not the right thing to say. It comes down to the specific situation and the heart of the person who said it. I know we should imitate the saints and Christ himself in that regard but not copy them. I guess it's okay to copy some things 1:1 but only to learn and hopefully see why it was the right thing.
I put myself in the shoes of one monk, and it seems the the good Saint's words would also make them realize how silly their argument was in the big scheme of things. Just another angle to look at it.❤️☦️
When people can’t argue a good point, they get petty. They can’t be the bigger man and say they were wrong due to whatever goes on in their head so they just try to take your words out of context
Regarding your comment about the Saints not being nice. When my cousin was young, he became ill. My uncle and aunt would pray for him. They phoned a monastery and asked them to pray for him as well. They gave him Saint Porphirious's phone number. When my uncle phoned him up, he shouted angrily, "Alright, I will pray for him," and hung up the phone. My uncle was stunned. For the record, when my cousin went to Athens to see his doctor he was completely cured.
God Bless! I love watching your videos and it has begun to fill a gap that I didn’t know needed filled and just shows how much more there is to being Christ Like and transformed father
I'm having a really hard time with this. It seems so vague -- sanctification is very very tricky. People are TERRIBLE judges of their own behavior and it's VERY common for people to rationalize sin for some "greater good" when ultimately it's harmful. It's absolutely rampant. For example, lying to not confront things which should be confronted. Lying to avoid conflict. Lying to enable someone in a way that is ultimately destructive. I've seen far too many people's lives damaged or in fact ruined by some do-gooder who reinforced denialism. Co-dependency, anyone? This message can be easily dangerous and is probably better served by being immediately paired with strong caution. Back to how people are terrible judges -- that is exactly why the commandments are so important! The Lord Jesus emphasized them over and over again. And it is of course no wonder that the original sin the devil performed was deception -- it wasn't even an outright lie but a manipulation, a misleading. We are, as St. Paul says, to "speak the truth in love". So there is a kernel of truth in this message -- we are not to have a materialistic view of morality apart from God's justice, and there's a "hierarchy" at play (e.g. property is usually bad to destroy, but breaking a window to rescue a child is legit) but it must absolutely be framed in terms of God's justice. This is why things like "using deception to correct an injustice" can be blessed (e.g. if someone kidnaps a child, it's legit to use deceit to liberate them). But framing in a vague way related to sanctification apart from the clear biblical guidance regarding commandments is like telling someone who struggles with an addiction that it's actually ok -- they will run with that "license".
Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica lives / believes / thinks / ministers to others / takes responsibility before God in the same way . See his book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives .
Agreed. I have a really hard time with this message. I asked a cradle orthodox priest about this and he disagreed hard. I find this message seems to resonate a lot with protestant converts who I think are acting more out of a reaction than a balanced whole approach.
Thank you Father. I had examined this issue before (about lying). For example if you tell someone struggling with weight control that they are a fat, you may be telling the truth but it is still a sin if it causes the other person to feel bad when they are probably already aware of it. Also when you read the Torah, the examples about bearing false witness (applications of that law) have to do with the person lying profiting from the lie. It seems if you don't profit but it's at the benefit of others (and perhaps the detriment to yourself) it probably isn't a sin but instead a virtue. Father, your comments are welcome if you think I'm in error. God bless.
@@stevelenores5637 It is far better to speak the truth to someone who needs to hear it, even if it might hurt their feelings, than to avoid doing so out of fear of an awkward encounter. While being called out for my behavior has sometimes made me feel bad initially, further reflection often revealed that I was, in fact, in the wrong. In those moments, the Lord helped me to see the truth, and I became grateful to the person who corrected me, even if my initial, emotionally driven reaction made the situation uncomfortable for everyone involved.
@@arnoldvezbon6131 I just saying there is usually a tactful way of getting the point across. There are ways of telling people they are wrong and having them thank you for doing it. For example use an example where you were less than perfect in a similar situation. That way you will come off less judgmental. Also this approach you might show the consequences you had to face for your error. This might get your point across more effectively. So what you are doing is telling them is that you've already been down that path and it didn't end well for you. They should get the point.
Moralism is something in Protestantism. Kantian deontology is not Orthodox Ethics. Only Orthodoxy has the true harmony of Deontology and Consequentialism. Morality is not only believing in true moral propositions, it's correct belief and correct life. We can think we have correct beliefs about one thing but act completely erroneously either because we have incorrect beliefs about another thing, or because of habit, or because of passions, etc. Thus is the meaning "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Orthodox Ethics is the putting into account of everything you know about yourself as well as your discernment of the other person. To put it simply: Correct faith + correct works.
Hey Father Paul, quick question, why do you say “and one God” at the end of the trinity? It’s pretty unique and I haven’t heard it from many other priests. Nothing against it I’m just curious, God bless you!
@unsalvaged I don't hear, "and" one God. He just says, One God. This phrase is in my prayer book for the beginning of morning prayers, the one from SVS.
It's Antiochian OC twist, methink. Never heard it before joining them. I fantasize it's directed against Muslims propaganda accusing us worshiping three gods.
In Genesis Abraham and Isaac lie about their wife being their sister. Jacob lies multiple times starting when he steals - (he even steals)- his brother’s birthright blessing. Regardless of their moral failings Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are considered the patriarchs of the Jewish Faith. Then there is King David who has someone murdered - and God promises him that his heir would be the Messiah! So, yes it is ultimately our inner sanctification that we must strive for. Morals can be faked - sanctification cannot.
A key point in the story arc is how these were failings and they had character development. For example, Jacob was deceitful but then his father in law was also deceitful back. It's descriptive of things, not prescriptive.
Honestly, Fr. Paul, your example of St. Paisios was a better example than St. Simeon. St. Simeon sounds truly out of his mind, and not in a good way-even if he was a prayer warrior for the people he interacted with. Then again, I know little to nothing about him, beyond what you have said. St. Paisios on the other hand is a clearer example of a brother trying to love other brothers through his actions, whether one considered his actions moral or not.
Well that’s ignoring a lot of context, what is the Bible specifically the New Testament which is about Jesus’ life and his apostles? Well it is mainly the compilation of eyewitness testimony from the disciples about Jesus’ life and teachings. What makes their accounts so significant however, well they testified about Jesus in a time when Christians were burned on crucifixes to light up emperor nero’s garden parties, and tortured or persecuted every way possible. This means the disciples really believed what they saw, and what they saw was Jesus resurrected 3 days later like he said he would be, so I trust their eyewitness testimony unless you could prove these 11 men were all hallucinating every miracle they saw simultaneously. Hope this helps, God bless
@ "Well it is mainly the compilation of eyewitness testimony from the disciples about Jesus’ life and ..." Are you saying that it's impossible for people to be mistaken about what they saw? Are you saying that a witness never lyes due to peer pressure? Are you saying thast the author of this verse wasn't biased in any way? The human brain is not infallible my friend and when it comes to supernatural events a persons testimony from 2000 years ago is meaningless.
@TboneWTF you’re talking about bias and peer pressure but the point is the bias and pressure was AGAINST the disciples to testify to Christ, they did so at great risk to their own lives, by all odds Christianity should have died in backwater Rome, Jesus’ story never reaching us, but here we are today with Jesus’ life being a cornerstone in the religion of 4.5 billion, half the world today. No it’s not impossible all these men were simultaneously mistaken about every single thing they saw and testified too but it is at losing odds, age is irrelevant because of how well the gospels have been preserved for us today
@ " you’re talking about bias and peer pressure but the point is..." You avoided answering my questions my friend. "Is it possible that they were mistaken? Is it possible that the author of this verse embellished what he saw? The answers are (if you are honest) YES! Of course they could be mistaken of what they saw. Of course the bibles authors were biased in order to make their stories more interesting. Eye witness testimony especially when a supernatural event is claimed is unreliable.
@ I answered you but I’ll go more in depth about why this has no merit, these 11 ordinary men somehow being mistaken about every event they saw (they were indisputably there with the real Jesus historically) would make it incredibly easy for the Bible to become rife with contradiction and confusion, but as we see today, there are none, Making it virtually impossible for that to be the case. As I’ve said, yes eyewitness testimony alone won’t cut it, but the apostles gave this eyewitness testimony at the threat of death, but if you captured a person and held a knife to their throat they would sing like a bird of course, just like how the disciples had an everyday threat of death when testifying to Jesus’ diety
There are devote monks in many christians sects like EO RC OO and then in hinduism and in many other religions. They can live humble life in prayer and fasting. So that is not a proof that that religiob would be the truth.
No -- that's about justice. There's an "order", even in the Torah. e.g. deceit to correct injustice is blessed, but not just to "be nice" or "avoid hurt feelings" or to "not get in trouble" which this message can be easily interpreted as (in practice).
God Bless, Fr. Paul. I'm a russian orthodox christian and i'm happy seeing wise men in the West spreading the trurth. Never had much hope for the US, but recent years it looks like you have great rise of the Orthodox Church. You might be a minor ministry (as a whole), but it is built with people who is on fire for our Lord Jesus Christ and before his eyes you are bigger and strogner than the herotics and unbeliviers. 'So the last shall be first, and the first last'. Keep up the great work and let us hope most of the sheep will be found by the Good Shepherd via the Holy Spirit which dwels in men like yourself. Thank you!
As a catechumen, this is something that’s been really hitting deep for me. and that’s realising how my sins darkens my heart and stop me being able to inspire those around me to come deeper into Christs love
Great video as always Father!
Hi Jacob, love yoir videos. God bless you today and remember to focus on and seek Christ today☦️
Jacob, just realize that as you get closer to baptism, you'll have a life confession with your priest. Confess, sincerely your sins, write everything down if you need to, and you'll feel a massive weight lift off of you. Don't dwell on them. Your sins will be forgiven. You'll be walking on air. It'll be glorious!
@@daphnepearce9411 wow I never knew that happens. Thanks for letting me know
@@Jac0bspeaks Of course! If you have a chance to watch some baptisms at your church, do it. You'll love it. We have a new group of baptisms coming up at my church. It's very moving and exciting to witness.
Well that is just generally christianity not just something that EO teaches
“Saved together, condemned alone.”
Makes me think on the importance of repentance and prayer.
Thank you Fr. Paul ☦️❤️
Fr. Paul, your uploads have been such a blessing to me. Thank you for all the trouble you go to in continuing to share your insight, in extending your ministry far beyond the walls of your parish. Much love and heartfelt appreciation, from WA.
God bless you, Fr. Paul! The “being right in the right way” really hit home for me.
Traditional Catholic here. I wish you read comments, as I just want you to know that this talk is mind blowing! I’ve been fed Thomas Aquinas forever. This, what you have explained here, has given me much to contemplate. Truth is truth. More of this, please!
thank you so much this was very special Father.
Beautiful words of truth and wisdom. God bless you, Father Paul. Keep up this magnificent work.
He didn't lie, he took the blame upon himself. What an altruistic way to reconcile two souls.
Father Bless 🤲❤️ from St Petersburg Florida ☦️🙏
The opposite is also true. In love, we often act as if our loved ones can do no wrong. We distrust our eyes when we see our brother sin and call our eyes liars.
Good! Any mercy you show towards your fellow man will be shown towards you on Judgement Day! "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."
True love has to come with some level of blindness. Otherwise the saying 'familiarity breeds contempt' kicks in too soon.
@@enn4983 true. But I also think "familiarity breeds contempt" is not necessarily true and can be overcome.
Freeing !
Thanks !!
I've recently been seeing a lot of the darkness of my heart, Father, and have been struggling, asking "Why? I've been trying so hard to do the right thing!". What a beacon of light you send me to change my perspective!
We innately know right from wrong. We choose to do otherwise. 🙏🇦🇺
Loved this video hope more keeping coming Fr, what a blessing
"Christ didn't die to make bad men good, but to make dead men live"
There was a man in our catechism who was outraged that female saints joined male monasteries. I believe the lesson was on St. Marinus. The man stood up and shouted "SO SHE LIED?!", he stormed out and never came back to catechism or to our parish.
He probably was just a false passenger and found an excuse to walk away. We humans are complex.
@@enn4983 Perhaps. I don't mean to judge him but my 1st though was "So YOU have never lied..or done anything else others might find questionable?" I hope he found what he needed.
Praying for you, Fr. Paul!
Father Paul your videos are always enlightening and makes me think deeply about my faith. Thank you for the content
half an hour of wisdom, thank you very much
Regarding the Paisios situation. I think a saint like St. Paisios had probably the right discernment in the situation he was in. The same thing said by someone else in another situation or even in the same situation would probably be not the right thing to say. It comes down to the specific situation and the heart of the person who said it. I know we should imitate the saints and Christ himself in that regard but not copy them. I guess it's okay to copy some things 1:1 but only to learn and hopefully see why it was the right thing.
Thank you, Fr. Paul. A happy and blessed New Year to you and your family. 😊
15:21 “So absolutely enthralled with being right, that they don’t worry about being right in the right way” hit hard
Thank you Father ❤️
Truly, a great video wit many takeaways thank you
Pleaee share the source for the shocking allegation.of the St Symeon story
If I would live in the USA I’ll be you spiritual son… I learned so much from you father! Thank you! Please keep going
Very great insight ... God bless
Saved Together is a game changer!
Merry Julian Calendar Eastern European Orthodox Christmas Father. Beautiful speech. ❤
I put myself in the shoes of one monk, and it seems the the good Saint's words would also make them realize how silly their argument was in the big scheme of things. Just another angle to look at it.❤️☦️
thank you fr! so helpful 🙂☦️
When people can’t argue a good point, they get petty. They can’t be the bigger man and say they were wrong due to whatever goes on in their head so they just try to take your words out of context
Please do the video about the Fools for Christ; I really don't understand them, but I would like to grow in my appreciation for them.
Thank your, Father
Regarding your comment about the Saints not being nice. When my cousin was young, he became ill. My uncle and aunt would pray for him. They phoned a monastery and asked them to pray for him as well. They gave him Saint Porphirious's phone number. When my uncle phoned him up, he shouted angrily, "Alright, I will pray for him," and hung up the phone. My uncle was stunned. For the record, when my cousin went to Athens to see his doctor he was completely cured.
"For the record, when my cousin went to Athens to see his doctor he was completely cured." What type of illness did he have?
Virtue resides in the heart, not in the individual act itself.
God Bless! I love watching your videos and it has begun to fill a gap that I didn’t know needed filled and just shows how much more there is to being Christ Like and transformed father
Thank you
Where is the source for the St Symeon story?
I did not find it in any hagiography
It's not in my synaxarion
I cannot find it either
This was so touching
Your icon wall looks like ours. Crowded, but then, so is heaven 😁
Yes I agree my father has been repelled by Moralistic Christianity
So happy to see you post the new video, Father Paul ❤
who is he talking about when he says: uh yanisa macrina ? 28:04
I'm having a really hard time with this. It seems so vague -- sanctification is very very tricky. People are TERRIBLE judges of their own behavior and it's VERY common for people to rationalize sin for some "greater good" when ultimately it's harmful. It's absolutely rampant. For example, lying to not confront things which should be confronted. Lying to avoid conflict. Lying to enable someone in a way that is ultimately destructive. I've seen far too many people's lives damaged or in fact ruined by some do-gooder who reinforced denialism. Co-dependency, anyone?
This message can be easily dangerous and is probably better served by being immediately paired with strong caution.
Back to how people are terrible judges -- that is exactly why the commandments are so important! The Lord Jesus emphasized them over and over again. And it is of course no wonder that the original sin the devil performed was deception -- it wasn't even an outright lie but a manipulation, a misleading. We are, as St. Paul says, to "speak the truth in love".
So there is a kernel of truth in this message -- we are not to have a materialistic view of morality apart from God's justice, and there's a "hierarchy" at play (e.g. property is usually bad to destroy, but breaking a window to rescue a child is legit) but it must absolutely be framed in terms of God's justice. This is why things like "using deception to correct an injustice" can be blessed (e.g. if someone kidnaps a child, it's legit to use deceit to liberate them). But framing in a vague way related to sanctification apart from the clear biblical guidance regarding commandments is like telling someone who struggles with an addiction that it's actually ok -- they will run with that "license".
✝MERRY CHRISTMAS ✝
CHRIST IS BORN ❤🙏✝🕊
🙏 ☀GOD BE WITH US AGAINST EVIL AND TEMPTATIONS 💪🇷🇺🇷🇸🇬🇪🇲🇰❤
2:20 I know you probably already know this Father but I’m pretty certain that St Paisios wasn’t lying because he truly believed it was his fault.
Yes, Sir! 🫡
Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica lives / believes / thinks / ministers to others / takes responsibility before God in the same way . See his book Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives .
14:36 Augustine talks about this in City of God
I want to track with you on this but when you say “lying for the right reason” it leans towards a pragmatic “ends justify the means”.
Agreed. I have a really hard time with this message. I asked a cradle orthodox priest about this and he disagreed hard. I find this message seems to resonate a lot with protestant converts who I think are acting more out of a reaction than a balanced whole approach.
Ezekiel 3:18-21 for 10:30
Please pray for me.
Thank you Father. I had examined this issue before (about lying). For example if you tell someone struggling with weight control that they are a fat, you may be telling the truth but it is still a sin if it causes the other person to feel bad when they are probably already aware of it. Also when you read the Torah, the examples about bearing false witness (applications of that law) have to do with the person lying profiting from the lie. It seems if you don't profit but it's at the benefit of others (and perhaps the detriment to yourself) it probably isn't a sin but instead a virtue.
Father, your comments are welcome if you think I'm in error. God bless.
Making someone "feel" bad is not a sin...
@@arnoldvezbon6131 Perhaps not but that can lead to awkward social engagements and family reunions.
@@stevelenores5637 It is far better to speak the truth to someone who needs to hear it, even if it might hurt their feelings, than to avoid doing so out of fear of an awkward encounter. While being called out for my behavior has sometimes made me feel bad initially, further reflection often revealed that I was, in fact, in the wrong. In those moments, the Lord helped me to see the truth, and I became grateful to the person who corrected me, even if my initial, emotionally driven reaction made the situation uncomfortable for everyone involved.
@@arnoldvezbon6131 I just saying there is usually a tactful way of getting the point across. There are ways of telling people they are wrong and having them thank you for doing it. For example use an example where you were less than perfect in a similar situation. That way you will come off less judgmental. Also this approach you might show the consequences you had to face for your error. This might get your point across more effectively. So what you are doing is telling them is that you've already been down that path and it didn't end well for you. They should get the point.
@@stevelenores5637 This is good advice. thankyou.
Medicinal Father, All Glory to God.
St. Simeon hidden martyrdom? Sanctifying not just the brother who saw him disrobed with his wife, but sanctifying the rest of the congregation.
Moralism is something in Protestantism.
Kantian deontology is not Orthodox Ethics. Only Orthodoxy has the true harmony of Deontology and Consequentialism.
Morality is not only believing in true moral propositions, it's correct belief and correct life.
We can think we have correct beliefs about one thing but act completely erroneously either because we have incorrect beliefs about another thing, or because of habit, or because of passions, etc.
Thus is the meaning "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Orthodox Ethics is the putting into account of everything you know about yourself as well as your discernment of the other person.
To put it simply:
Correct faith + correct works.
Hey Father Paul, quick question, why do you say “and one God” at the end of the trinity? It’s pretty unique and I haven’t heard it from many other priests. Nothing against it I’m just curious, God bless you!
@unsalvaged I don't hear, "and" one God. He just says, One God. This phrase is in my prayer book for the beginning of morning prayers, the one from SVS.
It's in common usage.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit. One God+
It's Antiochian OC twist, methink. Never heard it before joining them. I fantasize it's directed against Muslims propaganda accusing us worshiping three gods.
It's common in Antiochian OC. Highlighs that we worship One God in Three Hypostacies, not three gods.
One God because the Trinity is three in One, Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
In Genesis Abraham and Isaac lie about their wife being their sister. Jacob lies multiple times starting when he steals - (he even steals)- his brother’s birthright blessing. Regardless of their moral failings Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are considered the patriarchs of the Jewish Faith. Then there is King David who has someone murdered - and God promises him that his heir would be the Messiah! So, yes it is ultimately our inner sanctification that we must strive for. Morals can be faked - sanctification cannot.
Sanctifacation cannot be done without obedience.
A key point in the story arc is how these were failings and they had character development. For example, Jacob was deceitful but then his father in law was also deceitful back. It's descriptive of things, not prescriptive.
Honestly, Fr. Paul, your example of St. Paisios was a better example than St. Simeon. St. Simeon sounds truly out of his mind, and not in a good way-even if he was a prayer warrior for the people he interacted with. Then again, I know little to nothing about him, beyond what you have said. St. Paisios on the other hand is a clearer example of a brother trying to love other brothers through his actions, whether one considered his actions moral or not.
God punished immorral behavior.
If you can't prove jesus was divine with out citing the bible why should I accept anything the christian faith claims?
Well that’s ignoring a lot of context, what is the Bible specifically the New Testament which is about Jesus’ life and his apostles? Well it is mainly the compilation of eyewitness testimony from the disciples about Jesus’ life and teachings. What makes their accounts so significant however, well they testified about Jesus in a time when Christians were burned on crucifixes to light up emperor nero’s garden parties, and tortured or persecuted every way possible. This means the disciples really believed what they saw, and what they saw was Jesus resurrected 3 days later like he said he would be, so I trust their eyewitness testimony unless you could prove these 11 men were all hallucinating every miracle they saw simultaneously. Hope this helps, God bless
@ "Well it is mainly the compilation of eyewitness testimony from the disciples about Jesus’ life and ..." Are you saying that it's impossible for people to be mistaken about what they saw? Are you saying that a witness never lyes due to peer pressure? Are you saying thast the author of this verse wasn't biased in any way? The human brain is not infallible my friend and when it comes to supernatural events a persons testimony from 2000 years ago is meaningless.
@TboneWTF you’re talking about bias and peer pressure but the point is the bias and pressure was AGAINST the disciples to testify to Christ, they did so at great risk to their own lives, by all odds Christianity should have died in backwater Rome, Jesus’ story never reaching us, but here we are today with Jesus’ life being a cornerstone in the religion of 4.5 billion, half the world today. No it’s not impossible all these men were simultaneously mistaken about every single thing they saw and testified too but it is at losing odds, age is irrelevant because of how well the gospels have been preserved for us today
@ " you’re talking about bias and peer pressure but the point is..." You avoided answering my questions my friend. "Is it possible that they were mistaken? Is it possible that the author of this verse embellished what he saw? The answers are (if you are honest) YES! Of course they could be mistaken of what they saw. Of course the bibles authors were biased in order to make their stories more interesting. Eye witness testimony especially when a supernatural event is claimed is unreliable.
@ I answered you but I’ll go more in depth about why this has no merit, these 11 ordinary men somehow being mistaken about every event they saw (they were indisputably there with the real Jesus historically) would make it incredibly easy for the Bible to become rife with contradiction and confusion, but as we see today, there are none, Making it virtually impossible for that to be the case. As I’ve said, yes eyewitness testimony alone won’t cut it, but the apostles gave this eyewitness testimony at the threat of death, but if you captured a person and held a knife to their throat they would sing like a bird of course, just like how the disciples had an everyday threat of death when testifying to Jesus’ diety
Hello graham T lol 😂
There are devote monks in many christians sects like EO RC OO and then in hinduism and in many other religions. They can live humble life in prayer and fasting. So that is not a proof that that religiob would be the truth.
Perhaps a simpler version of this understanding is the question “Would you lie about hiding Jews from the Nazis if they came to your house?”.
No- would be silent
You mean 'would you have lied ?', that was long ago. A sad time in history that is not coming back.
@hueylongenjoyer3747 *Yes.
Saving another's life is more important than not sinning.
Absolutely I would. We're not Pharisees.
No -- that's about justice. There's an "order", even in the Torah. e.g. deceit to correct injustice is blessed, but not just to "be nice" or "avoid hurt feelings" or to "not get in trouble" which this message can be easily interpreted as (in practice).