Demaree, Single Brood Chamber and Double nuc, 3 ways to make more honey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Most hobbiest beekeepers use double deep brood chamber hives and are missing an opportunity to make more than double the amount of honey. Here are three ways I get a lot more honey compared to leaving these hives as double deeps.
Thank you. You and Bob Binnie are the best teachers out there. This video helped answer my questions about managing my hives with limited resources this year (I.e., not enough drawn comb for my expansion from 2 to 10 hives by way of purchasing overwintered nucs).
Wow! High praise indeed! Thank you.
Hi Peter. Will 2 5frame nucs below a qe and combined 10frame honey super spread the bees across both hives.? One nuc is new and smaller than the other. Thanks for your videos.
Not entirely! You will see a difference between the two sides but they will move across.
Well done Peter! You blew this one out of the park! What a fantastic suite of tools for the tool box to boost honey production for the Hobby Beekeeper… good for newbie’s to learn about and great for beekeepers with intermediate and advanced experience to learn and apply. Anyone contemplating applying these approaches I recommend watch your video a few times to make sure you catch all the details and nuances. Just as hives are different… so can the resulting treatment or manipulation. I hadn’t thought of your integration idea with Single Brood Box management or Nucs using some principles of Demaree. Those are excellent. For years Beekeepers have been taught that splitting hives was the only means of swarm control and that came with a price … reduced honey production. I have been using Demaree on my hives for several years now… as long as those checks for emergency cells in the top boxes are done thoroughly by shaking frames around day 8/9, this technique has worked consistently for me to stop swarming. Remember, Demaree can be a preemptive manipulation before you see swarm cells, or reactive after you discover swarm cells. Probably a bit more risk when you have cells established and capped, but so far in my experience it has still worked well. One of the big bonuses with Demaree and Peter touched on it is that you can draw a lot of new frames quickly with this method. Thus, even though Demaree is more work in some regards, I can see it to be appealing to integrate for hobby beekeepers with more hives or side liners.
Tony thanks for the inspiration to make my first Demaree video and the nudge for this one too! I appreciate your comments and input. I agree for the backyard beekeeper looking to get the most from a few hives this is a huge help.
So today in South Carolina I moved my bees to the bottom brood chamber, looked for swarm cells and put QE , then a empty super, then the next super with brood and eggs on top. Now that my queen is confined to the bottom, won't it get too crowded for her to lay? Or will they hopefully be too busy drawing out comb and storing honey to notice? Thanks! Your video helped me so much!
No hard and fast rule. Monitor situation, sometimes needs to be done later.
For the double nuc, after the queens have filled their nuc with eggs/larvae...how do you prevent her from swarming or needing more space? Do you have to continuously cycle brood cell frames above the queen excluder and replace them with empty comb?
If there is a strong flow then they do not swarm if its an on/off season they might so watch them.
Hi Peter. Great content on your channel. Thank you. Another question for you about the Demaree method. I was thinking I would do it pretty soon. However, it's still getting down to about 50-degrees at night here in SoCal. If I put the open brood up in the top box and leave the queen and two frames of capped brood in the bottom, do I need to worry that that the colony will be too spread out and have difficulty staying warm at night? If this is a concern, is there a target (low) temp I should wait for before doing my Demaree split?
There must be a GOOD population of bees, enough to keep everything warm in the prevailing conditions. If in doubt don't put any extra honey supers on till you are sure.
Thanks so much for this very informative video. I take it from what you're saying that after the new bees hatch from the brood moved to upper boxes, the bees will cleanup the empty frames then produce honey in them. My question is whether there are any issues harvesting honey from frames formerly occupied by brood? Thanks.
I make and sell a lot of nucs so my brood comb is typically one year old....if it were 5 years old this could darken honey.
By doing this method aren’t you using frames for honey production that you have previously treated for varroa?
I only use treatments approved to use with honey and leave no residue.
Could you explain how you transition the hive back to “winter mode” after harvesting the honey? I am new to the bee keeping world and this seems quite complex. I’m in Texas and would like to manage my hives in a way to minimize the amount of feeding necessary in the winter time. Thanks for the great videos!
This depends upon winter later honeyflows. If you do not want to feed (I feed them) then you need to condense all back to whatever your winter pattern is going to be (one deep or one deep with one medium, or two deeps) before the honeyflow finishes with time for them to fill adequately. To be honest I would expect to feed anyway incase you get it a bit wrong.
Question re: giving a hive a frame of brood. Do you insert the frame of brood with the nurse bees on the frame? Or is it advisable to shake the nurse bees back into their home hive?
Very new to beekeeping. Is there concern for using frames that were used for brood to then use for honey?
Generally, OK to use for honey unless the colony has been treated for mites with synthetic treatments or antibiotics have been used. If in doubt...don't.
any thoughts on how to do a demaree in a horizontal hive config?
I have not tried but would imagine doing it sideways could work.
If you have the equipment, what is the maximum number of colonies you believe you could Demaree by yourself in a beekeeping year?
Hundreds but I don't have the time or the bees ready early enough (because I split to make nucs.
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer I was wondering about the time aspect mostly.
Are there concerns about collecting honey in brood boxes that have been treated for mites last year (I used apiguard and oxalic dribble last year)? Thanks for sharing this video!
Great video, Thank You!!
Question, could I put an additional Queen excluder above honey supers and allow the top boxes raise a new Queen? I would have a top entrance for the Queen to go on her mating flight. I would then remove the top brood boxes after the honey flow and give them a new location on their own. Thoughts?
Yes but then with two brood chambers you will not likely get quite as much honey unless it is still early in the honeyflow as its all about ratio of field bees to nurse bees. The aim is to put most of the workers in the fieldforce just as the honeyflow peaks.
Thank you again for answering my question!! I have one more 🙂. If I pinch off all Queen cells, will there be an increased risk of laying workers?
Would they backfill the Single BCM box before the queen can fill it with eggs?
You would only have 133 more. Do you have the original 180 pounds with an additional 240 sounds.
Great explanation on something new to me, my only question so far is, are all these methods done with still the single entrance at the bottom?
I need the weather to warm up some so I can get into my hives as things are starting to bloom. From the weight they didn't use the honey I left them. Great info think I'm going with SBM this year
I run deep and a medium brood. Trying ro come up with a Snelgrove plan for this layout.
I did something similar to your two queen system based on videos you did last year or the year before. Instead of double nuc boxes i use a 10 frame box with a divider. I put smaller swarms in each side. I didnt get as much honey as you but i did get one or two boxes of honey instead of just watching them build up all summer and not making any. One problem i ran into was that during our July , August dearth, the stronger side killed the queen in the weeker side. I plan to try again this year but i with split them at the end of the honey flow.
Peter, do you manipulate every hive in a yard this way or just a few of the strongest?
Can you do this if you treated those deeps for mites last fall?
Yes if you don't use treatments or meds with residues.
Apiguard? Not sure if it leaves residual?
I was wondering if you ever use a upper entrance to let the drones brood have a way out, rather than them clogging up the queen excluder
Plus easier super filling.
yes
KeesHoneyBees. . .
Think it would depend on your Hive Type. . .
Here in Scotland 🏴 most Beeks use the UK 'National', some also use Langstroth too.
I also have been using Warre Hives to great effect.
All the above I use with a Single Entrance : in the Brood Box with no Top Venting or Bee Access. Mainly due to our Cold Winters. And once Bee Colonies increase: the effects of Robbing.
Unless Peter suggests his Tips, I would personally: do an odd Inspection / more moving a Box off / alter its position for a few Minutes (let those Drones out) and re-Stack / Align up as before. Hope this helps. 😎
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Happy Beekeeping 2024
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You don't state where you are based. (Are you in the Fla Keys by any chance ? Re Name !?)
If so, have Family your way. 😏
I know many Beeks in Colder Regions don't like top Vents or Entrances. As its to much of a 'Stressor' on the Colony. Bees 'Defend' their main Entrance via Guard Bees.
I do see sometimes Beekeepers using a 'Snelgrove Board' using the 'Warmth' of the Colony down below, to assist more quickly a "Split".
This Board does have a "Top" Entrance choice : to manipulate the Bees (stolen) out of the Main Colony, where Nurse Bees are desired up top, but the Foragers are not required (!) They Drift off Home : back into the Basement Apartment ! 😆
Its a technique bit like a Demaree & and a Single Split 'Offspring' ! Kind of. . . 🙄
Used more to make more Colonies [Increases] over that of making Honey. . .
Plenty of Snelgrove use Videos on TH-cam. 👍
Very good presentation! I know this works because I've tried all three. I really like doing it with the nucs.
Great to hear!
I'm very new to beekeeping & I really appreciate all of your videos. I have a couple of questions though. In the double queen method....Will the workers be aggressive towards the other workers of the opposite queen or the opposite queen? Or do all the workers tend to both queens equally & each other?
In most cases they do fine but there is some risk especially during dearth.
Really enjoyable video- thanks! Curious about why you think (I believe you observe it!) separating the brood in Demaree makes such a difference in production compared to your second method?
I meant to explain that! My reasoning is that it radically increases the % of workers who are field bees as apposed to house bees. Bigger field force+more honey
Another fabulous video! I am always full of questions! you mentioned shaking all the bees down into the single brood chamber etc. Have you had any instances where the bees dont go all the way up to the top to tend the uncapped brood? Another question, you leave the queen at the bottom with one frame of capped brood, no or little honey on that one frame, is there a risk of her dying from starvation or do they move up and get food to feed her? I'm so excited to try this method this year, coming out of my first winter as a beekeeper! Thank you so much for your education and videos!
Bees go in all boxes as long as you have not done this on a small hive.
Very informative video on increasing honey production. In the last method you talked about using the nucs, what size nuc boxes are you using to get a standard 10-frame box to sit on top of the two nucs?
They are 5 frame so you need to have a little shim to avoid gaps.
Another amazing video. Goes hand to hand with your last one on Demaree method. Interesting how you bring them down to winter in single brood management. Thanks again. I will practice these methods and learned I a lot!
Glad you like them!
Planning to use your last method in an Apimaye with division boards. Do you think I’ll need to stack 2 split brood boxes or 1?
Each hive is different....use the principal and think on your feet when they seem ready.
Great explanation off this complicated topic, but I’m a old man now so how does it work out with a long top bar hive
Good question! Might be worth a try!
What about the chemicals in the brood chamber? After each treatment of bees, chemicals accumulate in the brood chamber, so there is a recommendation not to extract honey from the brood chamber. In your methods, you say that you need to move the brood frames and extract honey from them.
I do not use sythetic mite treatments or Apiguard which do leave residues or taint honey
I may be wrong, but I thought you couldn't use frames and equipment that had been exposed to apivar for honey harvestable for human consumption. That would mean you have to track which pieces of brood equipment have been exposed and not use them for the top boxes. I'm not sure how you would do that?
That is one reason I only use organic treatments that can be used with honey supers.
Great video!!!! When you do the drawings with the positions of the boxes really makes it clear. I like in Louisiana . I’ve heard a lot of negative things about doing this method in the south. Due to our season being so long. Would you recommend a Single brood or double brood . I would think that later in the season on single I would have to pull brood frames to keep from swarming. Which would still be ok . Can make small splits. Thanks again for your videos.
Taking brood out works but even better is just to repete the zDemaree manipulation 2 or even three times. Then you are building a bigger and bigger colony without swarming....unless you want to use brood elsewhere.
Ty for the reply. Keep videos coming. Have a great day!!!!
nice presentation of 3 very different methods, using the same basic principles. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
How much are you leaving back for winter where you are?
I insure that the singles are pretty full of honey or syrup by Oct so c60lbs maybe 75lbs
What quality if cells do they make in the Demare? The reason i ask is that i generally move the queen from a very strong colony to priduce queens cells that i will harvest. This, of course, sets them back. If i could keep the queen and collect high quality cells that would be awesome.
Remember the queen cells generated in the uppr chambers are by default emergency queen cells so I would say are of much lower quality than say swarm cells.
@@BeekeepingwithTheBeeWhisperer Just as a point of clarification, grafted cells are also emergency queens cells - but I get your point. And that makes sense, because most of the returning bees are in the bottom rebuilding and the colony is pretty much split in half. When you pull a queen from a strong colony without any other manipulation, those emergency cells are more akin to swarm or grafted cells. Enjoying this style of video. Keep it up.
You mentioned adding a queen in the third option. I was wondering how you go about getting new queens. Do you simply buy them or do you raise your own?
I do both but 90% I buy
How do you handle removing the honey supers to check the bottom super, without hurting your back??
Carefully!
😂, I had the same question
Thanks Piter for your information, statistics and methods.
My pleasure!
Could you typically use the damaree method on a first year hive?
How do you go from all those boxes back to prepping the hive for winter with a double deep?
That's my concern also. I think if you harvested the honey from one of the deeps, you could put it back on the bottom deep with plenty of time for them to refill it prior to winter, as long as you had drawn comb & not foundation. I'd feed to make sure though.
Yes, absolutely if it reached the point where it might swarm for sure!
In terms of winter prep you could either lstop early and let them fill a deep with honey or , as I do, feed heavily with syrup in Sept/Oct and overwinter as singles or nucs
do you include an upper entrance in your Demaree set ups?
yes I would
TY! Would you put upper entrance facing opposite direction to bottom entrance?
Hi Peter.
My recommendation to come to your TH-cam Channel to view the Demarre Method :
I mentioned to a 'Viewers' Question (on Fred Dunns Q&A YT Channel) must of caused a Rush on 'Viewers' coming your way ! 😆
As always. . .
A neat easy 'Way' to do "Bee Management." 👍
Saying Hi from a very Cold, Wet, & Windy Scotland 🏴
Do you miss our Weather ? 🤭
Our Bee Season will start soon, Oh I do hope so.
Think I have Cabin Fever with all these Storms, Gales, Snow and Freezing Temps.
I need some "Bee" time. . .
So thank you for TH-cam content 'talking' everything 'Bee Related'. 😉
🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Happy Beekeeping 2024
🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Question :
When did yourself as a Scotsman, decide to hope the Pond and be in Maine ?
Which part of Scotland did you come from. And did you keep Bees here / Or learnt all this Stateside ?. . .
Saying Hi from a blustery cold Weekend here in the lovely Scottish Borders. Famous for Heather Honey, the Smith Hive. And I am lucky to have Black Bees AMM, not far from the famous Willie Robson at Chainbrige Honey Farm.
Guess he is about x15 Miles away as the Crow flies. 😏
Did a visit to his Farm near Berwick upon Tweed. He's a lovely old Beek with so many Stories to tell. Love all that knowledge and Heritage !
And we will here more from him, when he comes to our local Bee Association in the coming Month or so.
That will be a real treat. . . 😎
Well thank you! I appreciate folks spreading the word. I thought their must have been more to it than just a decent video! I am actually native to New England by birth with an English Dad and American Mum. Moved to school in the Isle of Man at 14 and lived in Newcastle a further 25 years before returning to Maine. Some UK bee experience but much more here. Thanks for the promotion and comments!
Thanks you for great video, simple, smart and scholarly
Glad you enjoyed it!