This was perfectly said and I'm glad that people now know that we are trying to protect all beliefs including our own. That we protect the agency of men just as God had intended it to be. Also, in stating that our beliefs as Latterday Saints will not wavered
I feel this was well said. I feel they are standing up to protect us from losing our religious freedoms by standing up to the law in the way it was written. I do not feel they were moving away from their beliefs or what God says. I feel they did a wonderful job.
I have to say that was a pretty good message, for a major religious leader to come out defending the rights of everyone including those who are apposed to major social issues is very interesting to see. I am looking forward to see how news networks interpret this message.
I'm guessing most of them are ignoring it, although I did hear one mention on the radio yesterday. Of course they asked for a comment from the HRC, whose spokesman totally missed the point, and their own hypocrisy. The site on which I first became aware of this conference was The Blaze, which had a link to this PC.
While listening, they are saying that God's law does not change! They are also simply saying that what's going on is really how each and everyone of us reacts to it. They are saying that our agency is important. (Our right to do what we want, share our beliefs, etc...), but God's law...DOES NOT CHANGE!
After watching this video, my testimony of the Church has become stronger. I do believe and support each and every word these inspired leaders have spoken. Furthermore, I want to add my thought is this regard: As the world has grown more into a global community, more and more standardized norms and values are being imposed, most of which are moral and human, but some are just stipulated to protect immoral and ungodly behavior. Now, as stated by the LDS leaders, all persons should be treated with respect and consideration, BUT that does not mean a renounce or a wavier of your own rights. We are all witnessing how some fanatics are trying to impose their thoughts on others violating any concept of liberty while on the other hand claiming and demanding respect to what they believe. Same goes for sexual-orientation defending organizations, demanding other institutions such as churches, to modify their moral standards for the sake of such freedom. As I understand this, if a person with gay preferences wants to get married to another person with the same orientation, they should first consider their own values, and if they include believing in a certain faith, than see if they are opposed to their desire. Ponder which is more important for them, and than make a decision in that regard. If they believe their sexual orientation is more important than their faith, leave the faith and go on with their desire, otherwise seek for help from their faith's leaders to see what can be done, but DON'T GO OUT THERE SAYING THAT THEIR FAITH IS WRONG JUST BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS A CERTAIN POSITION AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE! That being said, I respect all persons regarding their sexual, political, spirtiual or any other feature. I myself have some gay friends who are outstanding persons, I do not condemn them because of this, but I would not praise or accept their practices and I would not vote for a law legalizing gay marriage or children being adopted by gay couples, because I thing the practice is detrimental for our society and because I firmly believe in the teachings, philosophy and doctrine of my faith. I won't impose this belief on gays, and I demand that they don't impose their orientation on me, my family or religion.
Yes, without dealing with specifics they nailed it, but now the feeble and brave in the legislature are stuck with it and they will get crucified regardless of what they do. Reminds me of a song called Civilization, but this is not the place. Not anymore. Edgar Guest is rolling over in his grave.
Excellent and totally logical and Fair presentation, which I hope and pray will be shared widely. I also hope it will be viewed and thoughtfully considered by the members of SCOTUS, in view of the relevant marriage case dues to be decided soon.
If by modern you mean the 19th century, you may have a point. These men do not prophesy, see or revelate, and have not for decades (if they ever did in the first place).
I am a 2 Spirited Human Being in Southern Alberta and a Happy member of the Mormon Faith. My late grandma was baptized in the early 60s along with some of her children, this was after my late grandpa had passed away. The church was there in time of spiritual comfort was needed the most. I was baptized later in my adult years,, but grew up in the faith. I respect the Doctrine of the church, But I do Not Agree with Some of them. Jesus Christ has UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for ALL Children of the Father. This Love is Extended to ALL who Believe in Christ Jesus and his teachings on LOVE, COMPASSION and ACCEPTANCE. I am Single and read my scriptures daily and attend church now and then. I am also active in the 2 Spirited Movement in my Reservation and teach them that Jesus Christ Loves Us too Unconditionally, not according to religious understanding of Love and Acceptance. Everyone has their own Understanding of LOVE and Jesus Christ. I talk to God Daily and he has Blessed My Life abundantly and Openly as a 2 spirited Human Being. If Jesus Christ can Bless a 2 Spirited Being, then his Love is Extended to ALL men Equally. The Scriptures can be Interpreted in so many ways, even the smartest researcher can misinterpret or interpret to his or her understanding. I am happy with my Interpretation of the scriptures and in according to my cultural beliefs and teachings from our elders and ancient forefathers . (lamanite generation) I am a Proud 2 Spirited Mormon.
How I hope the world listens to such wise counsel! I fear they will not (because we do not live in a society ruled by reasoned discourse and compromise), but I hope the world will surprise me. For years, I've been pointing out the unfairness that freedom of speech on LGBT issue no longer exists, but likewise, I feel it totally unfair that someone who chooses to embrace that lifestyle can't, in many places, list their partner on their insurance or be treated equally in matters like taxation or find a job or place to live. Those things should not, 99% of the time, involve any violation of another's religious freedom. Surely, the best path is compromise, not declaring one side a pariah and trampling their rights. Sadly, I'm afraid that this, like much of the great counsel from our beloved Church leaders, will fall on deaf ears.
Beautiful delivery. Fair access to housing and employment does not, in my opinion, translate to tax free/deferred benefits financially equating to any amount of monetary gain with factors based on or of religious understanding/belief of faith. I humbly offer this very hypothetical situation -- and I say this with the caveat that I personally have not nor have I never heard of a situation where anyone has been denied housing: what if a religious, devout, upstanding citizen was to apply for housing and denied simply for their faith (assumably, Utah is currently RTK), to an apartment complex, subdivision, etc.. would that be fair? I... personally say no. Decriminalization is a harsh word that I put in kind with hate. Let us not divide, on either side of the fence.
Marriage has been an adopted practice of religious communities throughout our human history. Societies have adopted the recognition of it from time to time but ALWAYS between males and females, period. There was never a debate about it! Now in an attempt to legitimize the lifestyle choice, the LGBT community wants that RELIGIOUS recognition to be enforced by edict of the government not RELIGION - where it originated. That is the problem, government cannot dictate religious beliefs or practices on one hand, while holding up religious freedom as a God given unalienable Right on the other.
Are the rights of LGBT people being respected within the LDS communities? I heard lots of examples of discrimination against religious people, but only vague references to LGBT people facing discrimination. Despite the vague rhetoric about the need to respect the rights of all it conveyed a clear message that freedom to practice religion is a higher priority to them.
So the LDS Church is in favor of protecting GLBT folks' right to employment and housing, but not service? Does that mean that an LDS physician can exercise freedom of conscience with regard to refusing the service of IVF to a lesbian couple, but the doctor would have to employ GLBT folks in their medical practice? And if the physician owned the mixed use building which included the medical offices and apartments, would the doctor also have to rent to GLBT people? There is an obvious dissonance going on here. How do you protect the rights to employment and housing for GLBY people and protect the right to deny services offered to the public based on strongly held religious conviction? The moment that you tell a physician that they may legally deny publicly offered services to someone based on religious conviction, that physician will assert that, based on that same religious conviction, they should be allowed to deny employment and housing.
I don't know what it is about Dallin H. Oaks, but the dude gives me the creeps. Having said that, he made excellent points. And I agree that LGBT people have TONS of advocacy and now no one is "allowed" to disagree with them. I am not against their rights, but I am against having an AGENDA shoved down my throat.
There is no such thing as a "right to marry." Two people must qualify to marry. That's why blood tests are required before a marriage license can be issued. This is for the public good.
I don't understand why a news conference was necessary. It only concerns people of the Mormon faith, IMO. When they were describing religious freedom, they did include something to the effect of: as long as it doesn't harm others. We allow others to worship as they see fit but we expect the same courtesy. Historically, and even now, people ridicule people who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (or give a thumbs down just because it is LDS, sometimes without even watching the content.) I think it is important that this was pointed out. Currently, this is what sets Radical Islam apart from other religions. They are hurting, killing others and trying to force their laws on every country that they reside in. This is wrong and should be stopped.
"The relations other than between a man and woman who are married are contrary to the laws of god this doctrine and commandment comes from sacred scripture and we are not at liberty to change it" This seems like a problem. It shows that the church cannot change or adapt to the changing world based on the reason that sacred scripture cannot be changed, even though it's infringing on the rights of certain groups. I don't see what right the church has to say whether someone has the right to marry or not, if the same sex couple has made a wrong by gods eye then it's god who will judge them and not the church.
***** "Just heard LDS Leaders talking about our religious right to follow our beliefs." Sure but clearly you missed the contradictory points. By following a doctrine that doesn't allow adaptation or development then it runs into a problem when the doctrine itself is based on outdated ideals. " Our LDS principles and doctrine are our RIGHT as given by the constitution." However even the constitution develops with time after all it has been amended several times. The quote that posted shows that the church can't develop, which is a problem within a society that changes. " We have every right to believe what we believe, it's what this country was founded on." Of course you do, as long as it doesn't discriminate and by this I mean the church not allowing some of its members get married. This infringes on their individual rights of religious belief and the right to marry purely based on sexual orientation. Also how exactly does allowing two people to marry under their church infringe on your personal religious beliefs, after all no one is forcing you to marry someone of the opposite sex.
Did you not listen to this conference at all? No, the church will never support gay marriage BUT the church does persecute those who do, and believe in treating all LBGT with respect and kindeness. Now what you are saying is imposing on the church's religious freedom. We don't force people to agree with people. It's okay to disagree as long as we treat each other with respect.
Alexandra Bahtishi " Now what you are saying is imposing on the church's religious freedom" Lol But ones rights only go as far as long as they don't discriminate, not allowing some of their members to get married under the church they participate is a form of discrimination. The LDS church as an institution cannot deny marriage(a service) to its participants due to their sexual orientation, just the same as businesses cannot refuse a service because of someone's ethnicity. It's only a matter of time that the church will change it's position or risk lawful action. Also the religious freedom of the church isn't being imposed, they can continue to preach being against marriage between the same sex couple just as long as they don't deny some of their members the service.
Firstly.. If a church does not claim to be a representation of God's kingdom on earth, and therefore speaking to the world what God would that we do, it has no power, no foundation and no substance. So it is God, not the church, that judges. That is the "right" you speak of. Secondly.. "Adapt to a changing world" as you are using that phrase, simply means "the general accepted opinion." If 95% of the world believed gravity doesn't exist, would that change the fact that it does? Or if your friend believes, or feels that the Eiffel Tower is in Barcelona, does that make him correct? You are referring to trends. But trends are not forever. They do not last, and they are not consistent, they change, every day. Thirdly.. Lets not act like what is happening around the world today hasn't happened before? Read any history book and you will see we repeat ourselves, over and over and the world has no learned. Why? Because it has chased those trends, it has chased these "changes" that will be better for everyone. Wars. Governments. Even music and sports. It's over and over and over. Just zoom out a second and get a wider perspective.
Joseph Shillabeer "Adapt to a changing world" as you are using that phrase, simply means "the general accepted opinion." Not at all I just didn't elaborate on it because the conversation didn't require it. By a changing world I meant the knowledge of sexual identities and orientation, ones that have proven to be factual instead of just opinion. Making the act of denying the member of a church to marry under their church to be discriminatory. "You are referring to trends. But trends are not forever. They do not last, and they are not consistent, they change, every day." Are you implying that "knowledge of sexual identities and orientation" are trends? "Lets not act like what is happening around the world today hasn't happened before? Read any history book and you will see we repeat ourselves, over and over and the world has no learned. Why? Because it has chased those trends, it has chased these "changes" that will be better for everyone. Wars. Governments. Even music and sports." Your point isn't coming across because this comment is far too vague. It is also outside of the topic being discussed. If you have a point, one that will bring something to topic being discussed, then go ahead.
When will the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints apologize for trying to deny to loving couples the right to solemnize their love with a life-long commitment to one another, a right that Mormons hold so dear?
I'm not sure if it's because of fear of alienating themselves even further as they have in recent years, or if it's because religions finally realize they've been contradicting the very teachings of their savior all this time. Either way their acceptance is nice to finally see.
It is not that the people are necessarily gay. Ask almost any Christian business owner and they have no qualms with serving homosexuals in general. What they don't want is to be forced to pay a fine for not participating in a same sex wedding. How many companies withdrew themselves from Chic-Fil-A because of their view on gay marriage? Is that bigoted towards Chic-Fil-A? We do not agree with you therefore we will not support you. People are free to do so but when it comes to religious reasons people say not good enough.
Shann Wals: for what ever reason your reply doesn't show on my comment feed I wanted to respond. I wasn't able to see the whole comment, so let me know if I'm missing a point you were making. I'm LDS and also live in MA where gay marriage has been legal for enough time for there to be a culture around it. There have been no issues with our local ward and I've found the area to be much more family friendly then Utah. The Church has their doctrine about marriage but it's their doctrine, not the LGBT communities. To insist that the Churches definition can be the only definition is asking the government to recognize our doctrine as legal. That's a ludicrous position to take, as it constitutionally incompatible. I, for one, am tired of the Church defending the indefensible and wasting the publics time. This issue has made more enemies then friends and is driving away members. Seeing the nation change its stance after the Prop 8 debacle makes this whole approach that Church is taking look pretty uninspired. The power of God is clearly not with them around this issue.
You mentioned driving away members isn't that part of the great harvest sifting out the wheat from the tears part of the gathering of Israel in the last days all these things that are happening were warned about by prophets of old these are all signs the second coming of Christ is very nigh we are living in the final moments before christ returns in glory and then everything will be set right because Christ himself will reign over the earth
What???? The Mormon leadership claims to advocate nondiscrimination while discriminating against LITTLE CHILDREN, whom the Savior said, "come unto me," by new handbook changes to deny normal membership rights to children of legally married gay couples. Joseph Smith was truly a prophet, but he NEVER wanted the creation of a church run by so-called "prophets, seers and revelators." The Three Witnesses, not Joseph Smith, chose the original twelve apostles of the Mormon Church. Joseph wanted nothing to do with them.
Article of Faith 12 Restored: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law, unless we cannot pay to change the law, or we don't like the law, then we run like hell and avoid being accountable to it, or hold a press conference to whine about it not being fair that we cannot buy legal standing. - Joseph Smith Jr. (Coward, peeper and fornicator)
Words spoken with inspiration, clarity, respect & dignity - a great and powerful message of truth!
This was perfectly said and I'm glad that people now know that we are trying to protect all beliefs including our own. That we protect the agency of men just as God had intended it to be. Also, in stating that our beliefs as Latterday Saints will not wavered
This is an example of balanced, thoughtful and kind discussion of a controversial issue. I hope lots of people pay attention to it.
man this church is so true :) the spirit testifies to me that it is. These are truly men of God:)
I feel this was well said. I feel they are standing up to protect us from losing our religious freedoms by standing up to the law in the way it was written. I do not feel they were moving away from their beliefs or what God says. I feel they did a wonderful job.
What a great example of how to discuss our differences.
I have to say that was a pretty good message, for a major religious leader to come out defending the rights of everyone including those who are apposed to major social issues is very interesting to see. I am looking forward to see how news networks interpret this message.
I'm guessing most of them are ignoring it, although I did hear one mention on the radio yesterday. Of course they asked for a comment from the HRC, whose spokesman totally missed the point, and their own hypocrisy. The site on which I first became aware of this conference was The Blaze, which had a link to this PC.
They will get it wrong. Dead wrong.
While listening, they are saying that God's law does not change!
They are also simply saying that what's going on is really how each and everyone of us reacts to it. They are saying that our agency is important. (Our right to do what we want, share our beliefs, etc...), but God's law...DOES NOT CHANGE!
After watching this video, my testimony of the Church has become stronger. I do believe and support each and every word these inspired leaders have spoken.
Furthermore, I want to add my thought is this regard:
As the world has grown more into a global community, more and more standardized norms and values are being imposed, most of which are moral and human, but some are just stipulated to protect immoral and ungodly behavior. Now, as stated by the LDS leaders, all persons should be treated with respect and consideration, BUT that does not mean a renounce or a wavier of your own rights.
We are all witnessing how some fanatics are trying to impose their thoughts on others violating any concept of liberty while on the other hand claiming and demanding respect to what they believe. Same goes for sexual-orientation defending organizations, demanding other institutions such as churches, to modify their moral standards for the sake of such freedom.
As I understand this, if a person with gay preferences wants to get married to another person with the same orientation, they should first consider their own values, and if they include believing in a certain faith, than see if they are opposed to their desire. Ponder which is more important for them, and than make a decision in that regard. If they believe their sexual orientation is more important than their faith, leave the faith and go on with their desire, otherwise seek for help from their faith's leaders to see what can be done, but DON'T GO OUT THERE SAYING THAT THEIR FAITH IS WRONG JUST BECAUSE IT SUPPORTS A CERTAIN POSITION AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE!
That being said, I respect all persons regarding their sexual, political, spirtiual or any other feature. I myself have some gay friends who are outstanding persons, I do not condemn them because of this, but I would not praise or accept their practices and I would not vote for a law legalizing gay marriage or children being adopted by gay couples, because I thing the practice is detrimental for our society and because I firmly believe in the teachings, philosophy and doctrine of my faith. I won't impose this belief on gays, and I demand that they don't impose their orientation on me, my family or religion.
Yes, without dealing with specifics they nailed it, but now the feeble and brave in the legislature are stuck with it and they will get crucified regardless of what they do. Reminds me of a song called Civilization, but this is not the place. Not anymore. Edgar Guest is rolling over in his grave.
Excellent and totally logical and Fair presentation, which I hope and pray will be shared widely. I also hope it will be viewed and thoughtfully considered by the members of SCOTUS, in view of the relevant marriage case dues to be decided soon.
Very well said. Thank you.
Teach correct principles and let people govern themselves.
Well said, and may I add an amen.
You guys put into words what I've been trying to tell people for a long time. :) There's a reason you're in the positions you are.
I am so grateful for modern revelation!
***** the latest I can think of w a s the lowering of the age for serving a mission. I could have missed some since then though.
If by modern you mean the 19th century, you may have a point. These men do not prophesy, see or revelate, and have not for decades (if they ever did in the first place).
Dallin H. Oaks is the man.
I am a 2 Spirited Human Being in Southern Alberta and a Happy member of the Mormon Faith. My late grandma was baptized in the early 60s along with some of her children, this was after my late grandpa had passed away. The church was there in time of spiritual comfort was needed the most. I was baptized later in my adult years,, but grew up in the faith. I respect the Doctrine of the church, But I do Not Agree with Some of them. Jesus Christ has UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for ALL Children of the Father. This Love is Extended to ALL who Believe in Christ Jesus and his teachings on LOVE, COMPASSION and ACCEPTANCE. I am Single and read my scriptures daily and attend church now and then. I am also active in the 2 Spirited Movement in my Reservation and teach them that Jesus Christ Loves Us too Unconditionally, not according to religious understanding of Love and Acceptance. Everyone has their own Understanding of LOVE and Jesus Christ. I talk to God Daily and he has Blessed My Life abundantly and Openly as a 2 spirited Human Being. If Jesus Christ can Bless a 2 Spirited Being, then his Love is Extended to ALL men Equally. The Scriptures can be Interpreted in so many ways, even the smartest researcher can misinterpret or interpret to his or her understanding. I am happy with my Interpretation of the scriptures and in according to my cultural beliefs and teachings from our elders and ancient forefathers . (lamanite generation) I am a Proud 2 Spirited Mormon.
In all fairness
We each must guard
Our freedoms which
Cause no one harm
Giving somebody else rights you've always had is not taking away your religious freedom.
How I hope the world listens to such wise counsel! I fear they will not (because we do not live in a society ruled by reasoned discourse and compromise), but I hope the world will surprise me. For years, I've been pointing out the unfairness that freedom of speech on LGBT issue no longer exists, but likewise, I feel it totally unfair that someone who chooses to embrace that lifestyle can't, in many places, list their partner on their insurance or be treated equally in matters like taxation or find a job or place to live. Those things should not, 99% of the time, involve any violation of another's religious freedom. Surely, the best path is compromise, not declaring one side a pariah and trampling their rights. Sadly, I'm afraid that this, like much of the great counsel from our beloved Church leaders, will fall on deaf ears.
No news media blathering. Good. As it should be.
extremely well put....
Beautiful delivery. Fair access to housing and employment does not, in my opinion, translate to tax free/deferred benefits financially equating to any amount of monetary gain with factors based on or of religious understanding/belief of faith. I humbly offer this very hypothetical situation -- and I say this with the caveat that I personally have not nor have I never heard of a situation where anyone has been denied housing: what if a religious, devout, upstanding citizen was to apply for housing and denied simply for their faith (assumably, Utah is currently RTK), to an apartment complex, subdivision, etc.. would that be fair? I... personally say no. Decriminalization is a harsh word that I put in kind with hate. Let us not divide, on either side of the fence.
Amen.
Yes. Bullseye.
This is still true today!
Marriage has been an adopted practice of religious communities throughout our human history. Societies have adopted the recognition of it from time to time but ALWAYS between males and females, period. There was never a debate about it! Now in an attempt to legitimize the lifestyle choice, the LGBT community wants that RELIGIOUS recognition to be enforced by edict of the government not RELIGION - where it originated. That is the problem, government cannot dictate religious beliefs or practices on one hand, while holding up religious freedom as a God given unalienable Right on the other.
Are the rights of LGBT people being respected within the LDS communities? I heard lots of examples of discrimination against religious people, but only vague references to LGBT people facing discrimination. Despite the vague rhetoric about the need to respect the rights of all it conveyed a clear message that freedom to practice religion is a higher priority to them.
Exelent
I am Mormon
Wow things are changing in this world ) ;
So the LDS Church is in favor of protecting GLBT folks' right to employment and housing, but not service? Does that mean that an LDS physician can exercise freedom of conscience with regard to refusing the service of IVF to a lesbian couple, but the doctor would have to employ GLBT folks in their medical practice? And if the physician owned the mixed use building which included the medical offices and apartments, would the doctor also have to rent to GLBT people? There is an obvious dissonance going on here. How do you protect the rights to employment and housing for GLBY people and protect the right to deny services offered to the public based on strongly held religious conviction? The moment that you tell a physician that they may legally deny publicly offered services to someone based on religious conviction, that physician will assert that, based on that same religious conviction, they should be allowed to deny employment and housing.
I don't know what it is about Dallin H. Oaks, but the dude gives me the creeps. Having said that, he made excellent points. And I agree that LGBT people have TONS of advocacy and now no one is "allowed" to disagree with them. I am not against their rights, but I am against having an AGENDA shoved down my throat.
There is no such thing as a "right to marry." Two people must qualify to marry. That's why blood tests are required before a marriage license can be issued. This is for the public good.
I don't understand why a news conference was necessary. It only concerns people of the Mormon faith, IMO. When they were describing religious freedom, they did include something to the effect of: as long as it doesn't harm others. We allow others to worship as they see fit but we expect the same courtesy. Historically, and even now, people ridicule people who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (or give a thumbs down just because it is LDS, sometimes without even watching the content.) I think it is important that this was pointed out. Currently, this is what sets Radical Islam apart from other religions. They are hurting, killing others and trying to force their laws on every country that they reside in. This is wrong and should be stopped.
"The relations other than between a man and woman who are married are contrary to the laws of god this doctrine and commandment comes from sacred scripture and we are not at liberty to change it" This seems like a problem. It shows that the church cannot change or adapt to the changing world based on the reason that sacred scripture cannot be changed, even though it's infringing on the rights of certain groups. I don't see what right the church has to say whether someone has the right to marry or not, if the same sex couple has made a wrong by gods eye then it's god who will judge them and not the church.
***** "Just heard LDS Leaders talking about our religious right to follow our beliefs." Sure but clearly you missed the contradictory points. By following a doctrine that doesn't allow adaptation or development then it runs into a problem when the doctrine itself is based on outdated ideals.
" Our LDS principles and doctrine are our RIGHT as given by the constitution." However even the constitution develops with time after all it has been amended several times. The quote that posted shows that the church can't develop, which is a problem within a society that changes.
" We have every right to believe what we believe, it's what this country was founded on." Of course you do, as long as it doesn't discriminate and by this I mean the church not allowing some of its members get married. This infringes on their individual rights of religious belief and the right to marry purely based on sexual orientation.
Also how exactly does allowing two people to marry under their church infringe on your personal religious beliefs, after all no one is forcing you to marry someone of the opposite sex.
Did you not listen to this conference at all?
No, the church will never support gay marriage BUT the church does persecute those who do, and believe in treating all LBGT with respect and kindeness. Now what you are saying is imposing on the church's religious freedom. We don't force people to agree with people. It's okay to disagree as long as we treat each other with respect.
Alexandra Bahtishi " Now what you are saying is imposing on the church's religious freedom" Lol But ones rights only go as far as long as they don't discriminate, not allowing some of their members to get married under the church they participate is a form of discrimination. The LDS church as an institution cannot deny marriage(a service) to its participants due to their sexual orientation, just the same as businesses cannot refuse a service because of someone's ethnicity. It's only a matter of time that the church will change it's position or risk lawful action.
Also the religious freedom of the church isn't being imposed, they can continue to preach being against marriage between the same sex couple just as long as they don't deny some of their members the service.
Firstly..
If a church does not claim to be a representation of God's kingdom on earth, and therefore speaking to the world what God would that we do, it has no power, no foundation and no substance. So it is God, not the church, that judges. That is the "right" you speak of.
Secondly..
"Adapt to a changing world" as you are using that phrase, simply means "the general accepted opinion."
If 95% of the world believed gravity doesn't exist, would that change the fact that it does? Or if your friend believes, or feels that the Eiffel Tower is in Barcelona, does that make him correct? You are referring to trends. But trends are not forever. They do not last, and they are not consistent, they change, every day.
Thirdly..
Lets not act like what is happening around the world today hasn't happened before? Read any history book and you will see we repeat ourselves, over and over and the world has no learned. Why? Because it has chased those trends, it has chased these "changes" that will be better for everyone. Wars. Governments. Even music and sports. It's over and over and over. Just zoom out a second and get a wider perspective.
Joseph Shillabeer "Adapt to a changing world" as you are using that phrase, simply means "the general accepted opinion." Not at all I just didn't elaborate on it because the conversation didn't require it. By a changing world I meant the knowledge of sexual identities and orientation, ones that have proven to be factual instead of just opinion. Making the act of denying the member of a church to marry under their church to be discriminatory.
"You are referring to trends. But trends are not forever. They do not last, and they are not consistent, they change, every day." Are you implying that "knowledge of sexual identities and orientation" are trends?
"Lets not act like what is happening around the world today hasn't happened before? Read any history book and you will see we repeat ourselves, over and over and the world has no learned. Why? Because it has chased those trends, it has chased these "changes" that will be better for everyone. Wars. Governments. Even music and sports." Your point isn't coming across because this comment is far too vague. It is also outside of the topic being discussed. If you have a point, one that will bring something to topic being discussed, then go ahead.
When will the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints apologize for trying to deny to loving couples the right to solemnize their love with a life-long commitment to one another, a right that Mormons hold so dear?
Be specific What couples?
Warren Pugh Everyone who falls in love and forms an adult couple.
Asking the church to apologize for a stance GOD accepts, is unwise. Wise up!
I'm not sure if it's because of fear of alienating themselves even further as they have in recent years, or if it's because religions finally realize they've been contradicting the very teachings of their savior all this time. Either way their acceptance is nice to finally see.
Religious beliefs can still cause bigotry and prejudice. And quite often, they do.
It is not that the people are necessarily gay. Ask almost any Christian business owner and they have no qualms with serving homosexuals in general. What they don't want is to be forced to pay a fine for not participating in a same sex wedding. How many companies withdrew themselves from Chic-Fil-A because of their view on gay marriage? Is that bigoted towards Chic-Fil-A? We do not agree with you therefore we will not support you. People are free to do so but when it comes to religious reasons people say not good enough.
Mike Aguilar So can groups of people with an agenda.
Religious beliefs don't cause bigotry, it's the human beings with those beliefs and how they act on said beliefs.
Shann Wals: for what ever reason your reply doesn't show on my comment feed I wanted to respond. I wasn't able to see the whole comment, so let me know if I'm missing a point you were making. I'm LDS and also live in MA where gay marriage has been legal for enough time for there to be a culture around it. There have been no issues with our local ward and I've found the area to be much more family friendly then Utah. The Church has their doctrine about marriage but it's their doctrine, not the LGBT communities. To insist that the Churches definition can be the only definition is asking the government to recognize our doctrine as legal. That's a ludicrous position to take, as it constitutionally incompatible. I, for one, am tired of the Church defending the indefensible and wasting the publics time. This issue has made more enemies then friends and is driving away members. Seeing the nation change its stance after the Prop 8 debacle makes this whole approach that Church is taking look pretty uninspired. The power of God is clearly not with them around this issue.
You mentioned driving away members isn't that part of the great harvest sifting out the wheat from the tears part of the gathering of Israel in the last days all these things that are happening were warned about by prophets of old these are all signs the second coming of Christ is very nigh we are living in the final moments before christ returns in glory and then everything will be set right because Christ himself will reign over the earth
What???? The Mormon leadership claims to advocate nondiscrimination while discriminating against LITTLE CHILDREN, whom the Savior said, "come unto me," by new handbook changes to deny normal membership rights to children of legally married gay couples. Joseph Smith was truly a prophet, but he NEVER wanted the creation of a church run by so-called "prophets, seers and revelators." The Three Witnesses, not Joseph Smith, chose the original twelve apostles of the Mormon Church. Joseph wanted nothing to do with them.
Article of Faith 12 Restored: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers and magistrates, in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law, unless we cannot pay to change the law, or we don't like the law, then we run like hell and avoid being accountable to it, or hold a press conference to whine about it not being fair that we cannot buy legal standing. - Joseph Smith Jr. (Coward, peeper and fornicator)