Thank you Aine! Your videos are always so informative and rational... Have you ever considered writing a book? I'm a big believer in the psychological model of magic... I once wrote a spell in the form of a poem of affirmation and protection for a young woman who was suffering from terrible combat induced PTSD and social anxiety... It came with a set of instructions and a silver ring which she could use to invoke the power of the spell as needed.... It was purely psychological on my part but it worked like a charm! Within a matter of days she was able to take complete control of her nightmares and within weeks was able to leave her home free of anxiety and actually managed to find a boyfriend! That being said.... There is definitely more to it then psychology can explain.... I've seen and experienced some shit that my science based reality simply can not account for!
3 ปีที่แล้ว +4
Thank you! Yes I have several book ideas... but taking a break from long-form writing since finishing my PhD! That's a wonderful story, and really fascinating. I wish more scientific studies were done on such phenomena, so curious about how our minds work and exactly what processes might bring such things about (beyond the placebo effect etc).
What I like to say is that psychology was the science that transformed witchcraft into a grounded spiritual discipline. I always try to approach witchcraft as a series of rituals that play with the states of our mind. The point is mental transformation beyond what art and logical thinking can do on their own.
Thank you for this video! I just started reading Condensed Chaos and it has really opened my mind to what magick can be. It made me realize that I was practicing chaos magick primarily.
3 ปีที่แล้ว +4
It's always such an exciting moment when we realise there's a term for and a whole movement around something we've come to organically!
@ Yes indeed! And your videos helped me realize I was a Naturalistic Pantheist. I didn't even know there was a word for those beliefs! I really honestly enjoy watching your content so much. I just recently found your channel a few weeks ago, but you've been able to make sense of a lot of conflicting beliefs I had, similar to yourself. I realized the "conflicting beliefs" I had were me utilizing the belief as a tool strategy in chaos magick. I would kneel at the altar and immediately step into a belief, and when I stepped away, I stepped out of the belief too. That belief being anthropomorphized deity and even magick as well to some extent.
Ooh what an interesting video, thank you. I've given this idea of magical models, in relation to my own practice quite a lot of thought over the years. Previously I had a very psychological view, with a hefty mix of energetic. And I actually went through a bit of an existential crisis a few years ago, which in the end brought me to leaning more into the spiritual model. It's been an interesting evolution. I still primarily like to use the psychological model when teaching people though, I feel that it's the "safest" level... a plane where people can take what works for them and translate it into their own beliefs. It's interesting to ponder where our practice fits within the models. I don't fully understand the informational model, but I'm sure I have a bit in there too. Thank you for making this video, I loved hearing your thoughts and explanation of the sub-categories. I would love to see more on the models if you feel inspired to share 😊 Many blessings xx
3 ปีที่แล้ว +1
Oh that's very interesting. It's amazing how crises like that can really bring us somewhere new. I definitely understand your point about the psychological as the "safest" level - it feels more universal maybe. Thanks for your comment and feedback, always appreciated! :) xx
My theory (IMHO), is that 90% can be scientifically explained...but 10% that can't be explained. (that 10% shouldn't be explained. It is what it is, and leave it at that). By that's just me.
Thank you for this informative video! I've been searching for more information about the psychological model of witchcraft and this answered all my questions!
The most interesting interplay in my life between the realms of psychology and magic are in astral projection. It's the one thing that I do in my practice that feels the most viscerally real, but at the same time I can be having out of body experiences regularly and still think to myself, "there's no reason to believe this is anything but a cool lucid dream state I can play around with." It's kind of different from lucid dreaming (which I also do from time to time), in that it's more of a virtual reality experience that has a certain level of resistance to responding to my conscious will. Like, I can walk through walls, but I have to *try*. I have to know how to fly to lift my feet off the ground and know I'm welcome somewhere to teleport. I can call out to an entity and I may or may not get a response. Now, if I treat this all as just some sort of artificial barrier around my willpower inhibiting me from experiencing particular fantasies, it can get really boring and unproductive, because there's nothing inherently meaningful about, say, gaining access to the Akashic Records or meeting a deity. It's just flexing a weird psychological muscle. But if I put belief into it and actually participate in the narrative of the astral planes, it's actually a really exciting and rewarding experience. But at the same time, I see how "lost" so many spiritual people can get in these narratives. It's so easy for someone to have a wacky astral projection experience involving aliens and take it literally and go down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Obviously I don't want to do that to myself, but it's still worth participating in these "astral narratives" just to see where they go and digest them as having symbolic (rather than literal) meanings.
3 ปีที่แล้ว
This is really fascinating, especially as I've not yet achieved this level of astral projection - I never got to the point of it being as "real" as dreaming. But in general, I totally relate to all of this. My takeaway is always towards taking symbolic meaning from those experiences. The more embodied and talkative the figure, for example, the more I assume I'm talking to my own ego! But there's always something interesting to glean, all the same.
Fantastic video-this is such a good explanation of various approaches to the relationship between psychology and magic. I generally take the same approach to it as you, the reductive approach, but I also feel like there’s something missing from this. I guess for me, while I do find it fascinating learning about cognitive science/psychology, I also don’t necessarily want to rationalize all of my practice-I like to keep some element of mystery! Also this is the best explanation of sigils I’ve heard! I use them more as material cues or reminders for goals, but this chaos magic understanding is really interesting.
3 ปีที่แล้ว
Yes, exactly! I'm definitely really curious to learn more about chaos magic, is has some pretty unique approaches. Thanks! :)
I definitely subscribe to the reductionist model of magic. I was in the process of rewriting my book of shadows which was previously in the energetic model. Currently translating spiritual grounding techniques like gaia visualizations to scientific techniques that capitalize on alpha brain wave activation. I’m starting to separate my reductionist pyschological model witchcraft from my spiritual/religious beliefs because witchcraft is a practice not a set of beliefs. My spiritual beliefs are completely untouched by logic tho lol
3 ปีที่แล้ว +1
Hmm that's really interesting, especially that distinction between magic and spiritual practice. That seems to be the case for many people. For some reason I just could never get fully invested in a magical practice that doesn't intersect with my spirituality!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the psychological model! :) I can recommend you checking out Franz Anton Mesmer and his idea of „animal magnetism“, which was „debunked“ by the first blind experiment in science by Benjamin Franklin and others. I learned about it during my psychology studies, that Mesmer could actually be regarded as one of the „fathers of psychology“, preceding Freud! I find it especially fascinating that this was also the time of Descartes and other dualists, as greatly described in „Caliban and the witch“, when there was eradication of magical models of healing and understanding by „rationalists“ when capitalism & colonialism was in its infancy.
Particularly early psychology does appear to be in at least some sense an enlightenment era off-shoot of esotericism. How "the mind" and particularly "the unconscious" is defined seem to be key to determining which psychological model(s) of magic are most applicable. Is the unconscious a direct link to a transcendent reality, simply the thoughts we have that we are not currently paying attention to, something in between? I doubt anyine will be agreeing on such definitions any time in the foreseeable future!
3 ปีที่แล้ว
Really good point. And this is something I've struggled with personally over the last decade! For me, once I started to doubt that unconscious-transcendent link, it was hard to go back. I've been gradually building back an understanding of how much more there may be to the mind than just neurons firing!
You are fucusing on a different layer of Magick than either binary "high/low" or "black/white" by seeing this as Self v Society. That is why i love your Work and Channel. This is what Everyone needs to think about in Personal Practice. The Self v Society
I dont get the difference between reductionist psychology model and just plain old psychology. It seems the same just names are different. I feel like it should be called witchcraft flavored psychology 😂
Haven't watched the video so sorry if you mentioned it but isn't our psyche kind of magical too? Like even if you can explain everything with our psyche it's still fascinating and magical. And the power or energy that created the universe created us so everything that can be scientifically explained was created by this life force or God if you want to call it that way. Idk where I'm going with this
Thank you Aine! Your videos are always so informative and rational... Have you ever considered writing a book?
I'm a big believer in the psychological model of magic...
I once wrote a spell in the form of a poem of affirmation and protection for a young woman who was suffering from terrible combat induced PTSD and social anxiety... It came with a set of instructions and a silver ring which she could use to invoke the power of the spell as needed.... It was purely psychological on my part but it worked like a charm! Within a matter of days she was able to take complete control of her nightmares and within weeks was able to leave her home free of anxiety and actually managed to find a boyfriend!
That being said.... There is definitely more to it then psychology can explain.... I've seen and experienced some shit that my science based reality simply can not account for!
Thank you! Yes I have several book ideas... but taking a break from long-form writing since finishing my PhD!
That's a wonderful story, and really fascinating. I wish more scientific studies were done on such phenomena, so curious about how our minds work and exactly what processes might bring such things about (beyond the placebo effect etc).
What I like to say is that psychology was the science that transformed witchcraft into a grounded spiritual discipline. I always try to approach witchcraft as a series of rituals that play with the states of our mind. The point is mental transformation beyond what art and logical thinking can do on their own.
Thank you for this video! I just started reading Condensed Chaos and it has really opened my mind to what magick can be. It made me realize that I was practicing chaos magick primarily.
It's always such an exciting moment when we realise there's a term for and a whole movement around something we've come to organically!
@ Yes indeed! And your videos helped me realize I was a Naturalistic Pantheist. I didn't even know there was a word for those beliefs! I really honestly enjoy watching your content so much. I just recently found your channel a few weeks ago, but you've been able to make sense of a lot of conflicting beliefs I had, similar to yourself. I realized the "conflicting beliefs" I had were me utilizing the belief as a tool strategy in chaos magick. I would kneel at the altar and immediately step into a belief, and when I stepped away, I stepped out of the belief too. That belief being anthropomorphized deity and even magick as well to some extent.
Ooh what an interesting video, thank you. I've given this idea of magical models, in relation to my own practice quite a lot of thought over the years. Previously I had a very psychological view, with a hefty mix of energetic. And I actually went through a bit of an existential crisis a few years ago, which in the end brought me to leaning more into the spiritual model. It's been an interesting evolution.
I still primarily like to use the psychological model when teaching people though, I feel that it's the "safest" level... a plane where people can take what works for them and translate it into their own beliefs.
It's interesting to ponder where our practice fits within the models. I don't fully understand the informational model, but I'm sure I have a bit in there too.
Thank you for making this video, I loved hearing your thoughts and explanation of the sub-categories. I would love to see more on the models if you feel inspired to share 😊 Many blessings xx
Oh that's very interesting. It's amazing how crises like that can really bring us somewhere new. I definitely understand your point about the psychological as the "safest" level - it feels more universal maybe. Thanks for your comment and feedback, always appreciated! :) xx
My theory (IMHO), is that 90% can be scientifically explained...but 10% that can't be explained. (that 10% shouldn't be explained. It is what it is, and leave it at that). By that's just me.
This sounds roughly like my own thoughts, too!
Thank you for this informative video! I've been searching for more information about the psychological model of witchcraft and this answered all my questions!
The most interesting interplay in my life between the realms of psychology and magic are in astral projection. It's the one thing that I do in my practice that feels the most viscerally real, but at the same time I can be having out of body experiences regularly and still think to myself, "there's no reason to believe this is anything but a cool lucid dream state I can play around with." It's kind of different from lucid dreaming (which I also do from time to time), in that it's more of a virtual reality experience that has a certain level of resistance to responding to my conscious will. Like, I can walk through walls, but I have to *try*. I have to know how to fly to lift my feet off the ground and know I'm welcome somewhere to teleport. I can call out to an entity and I may or may not get a response. Now, if I treat this all as just some sort of artificial barrier around my willpower inhibiting me from experiencing particular fantasies, it can get really boring and unproductive, because there's nothing inherently meaningful about, say, gaining access to the Akashic Records or meeting a deity. It's just flexing a weird psychological muscle. But if I put belief into it and actually participate in the narrative of the astral planes, it's actually a really exciting and rewarding experience. But at the same time, I see how "lost" so many spiritual people can get in these narratives. It's so easy for someone to have a wacky astral projection experience involving aliens and take it literally and go down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Obviously I don't want to do that to myself, but it's still worth participating in these "astral narratives" just to see where they go and digest them as having symbolic (rather than literal) meanings.
This is really fascinating, especially as I've not yet achieved this level of astral projection - I never got to the point of it being as "real" as dreaming. But in general, I totally relate to all of this. My takeaway is always towards taking symbolic meaning from those experiences. The more embodied and talkative the figure, for example, the more I assume I'm talking to my own ego! But there's always something interesting to glean, all the same.
How do you start learning astral projection?
Fantastic video-this is such a good explanation of various approaches to the relationship between psychology and magic. I generally take the same approach to it as you, the reductive approach, but I also feel like there’s something missing from this. I guess for me, while I do find it fascinating learning about cognitive science/psychology, I also don’t necessarily want to rationalize all of my practice-I like to keep some element of mystery! Also this is the best explanation of sigils I’ve heard! I use them more as material cues or reminders for goals, but this chaos magic understanding is really interesting.
Yes, exactly! I'm definitely really curious to learn more about chaos magic, is has some pretty unique approaches. Thanks! :)
Fantastic video. Really brought together quite a thoughts that I've had about magic, in particular with my explorations into Jungian psychology.
I definitely subscribe to the reductionist model of magic. I was in the process of rewriting my book of shadows which was previously in the energetic model. Currently translating spiritual grounding techniques like gaia visualizations to scientific techniques that capitalize on alpha brain wave activation.
I’m starting to separate my reductionist pyschological model witchcraft from my spiritual/religious beliefs because witchcraft is a practice not a set of beliefs. My spiritual beliefs are completely untouched by logic tho lol
Hmm that's really interesting, especially that distinction between magic and spiritual practice. That seems to be the case for many people. For some reason I just could never get fully invested in a magical practice that doesn't intersect with my spirituality!
@ I guess i might be a secular witch
Aine, i recommend discussing these ideas with the woman who runs the youtube channel called Headology & The Witch.
Oh, thank you for the recommendation!
As a atheistic satanist witch who wants to be a psychologist I love this also what is the second type of psychological model called?
More like this!!! 🖤🎯
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the psychological model! :) I can recommend you checking out Franz Anton Mesmer and his idea of „animal magnetism“, which was „debunked“ by the first blind experiment in science by Benjamin Franklin and others. I learned about it during my psychology studies, that Mesmer could actually be regarded as one of the „fathers of psychology“, preceding Freud! I find it especially fascinating that this was also the time of Descartes and other dualists, as greatly described in „Caliban and the witch“, when there was eradication of magical models of healing and understanding by „rationalists“ when capitalism & colonialism was in its infancy.
Particularly early psychology does appear to be in at least some sense an enlightenment era off-shoot of esotericism. How "the mind" and particularly "the unconscious" is defined seem to be key to determining which psychological model(s) of magic are most applicable. Is the unconscious a direct link to a transcendent reality, simply the thoughts we have that we are not currently paying attention to, something in between? I doubt anyine will be agreeing on such definitions any time in the foreseeable future!
Really good point. And this is something I've struggled with personally over the last decade! For me, once I started to doubt that unconscious-transcendent link, it was hard to go back. I've been gradually building back an understanding of how much more there may be to the mind than just neurons firing!
You are fucusing on a different layer of Magick than either binary "high/low" or "black/white" by seeing this as Self v Society.
That is why i love your Work and Channel. This is what Everyone needs to think about in Personal Practice.
The Self v Society
Excellent point! And thank you :)
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”
I dont get the difference between reductionist psychology model and just plain old psychology. It seems the same just names are different. I feel like it should be called witchcraft flavored psychology 😂
Haven't watched the video so sorry if you mentioned it but isn't our psyche kind of magical too? Like even if you can explain everything with our psyche it's still fascinating and magical. And the power or energy that created the universe created us so everything that can be scientifically explained was created by this life force or God if you want to call it that way. Idk where I'm going with this