Theoretically yes. But Eurofighter wasnt built stealth on purpose since no enemy has stealth so far. F22 is a waste of money and retired soon. It was simply not necessary.
@@cool9282 F-22 is being recommissioned with the latest upgrade suite, and will begin production along with the NGAD system, which will fly in co-op with the newer F-22 and F-35s. US always overbuilds and loves paying 35 bucks for a Ti screw. F-22 was super necessary, without it we would be 10+ years behind the aviation game. It gave us the B-21 and a slew of other high tech advancements that started with the F-22. Along with the projection of force as a deterrent, it was well worth it. US still needs free healthcare though : (
@@fd35g3 I dont think it was that worth. They still could have done research and still have the same tech without building the plane. Anyway there never will be a full stealth fleet. US is planning a mix between stealth and normal jets, since stealth is not always necessary and too expensive. For example air patrol and control missions.
The f35 in Germany only serves as a sneak/electronic warfare platform in a secondary role. Its primary role is as the contractual nuke carrier, as typhoon is not certified for American nukes, and certification would necessitate giving all blueprints to the united states, which might leak to their industy.
@@gh8447 it is a multirole aircraft - it has no primary role. Multi can never be primary because it often lacks the depth and focus required for primary roles. Primary activities or approaches are typically driven by a single, clear objective, whereas multi approaches juggle multiple objectives, diluting their ability to focus on one thing effectively. In essence, multi is more about balancing or combining several aspects, while primary needs concentrated effort to achieve a singular goal.
Same big-little strategy for India. The Tejas as a low RCS BVR and close combat dogfighter fighter for low level and sneaky approach, and the Super Sukhoi for long range radar (400km) target detection and AWACS and refueling tanker destruction, and for feeding off targets to Tejas.
@@ruzziasht349Germany does too, and the US has F-22s and F-35s. The F-22 is the best air superiority fighter on earth, with the Typhoon coming in at second place. However, there are other very capable platforms like the Rafale. Admittedly Russia’s SU-35S and SU-30SM are also very, very good air superiority platforms even though they are inferior to state of the art Western aircraft. The most important aspect is the missile though. Here America lacks behind. The British, the Germans and some other nations use the Meteor BVR missile and IRIS-T for threats within visual range. Both are essentially the most capable missiles in their class. America still relies on the AIM-120 as its BVR missile because the AIM-260 is still in development. Current gen AIM-120 are very capable, but they’re not as good as the Meteor and probably not as good as Russian R-37M or Chinese PL-15 missiles. America recently introduced the AIM-174B which is an interim solution but it’s extremely good and definitely one of the best BVR missiles out there, however it is a little too big to replace the AIM-120. I’m very curious for the AIM-260.
Indeed . Fat Amy on it s own is a sitting duck as soon the fight goes in visual range ... but it is an enabler for other platforms (Eurofighter , F-16, F-18, F-15EX , Gripen, ...)
Sometimes Europes European made fighters are underestimated . There are three fine aircraft produced in Europe ..................Eurofighter Typhoon , Dassault Rafale and Saab Jas 39 Gripen .
@@thegreeneyejGripen is made for defending large land areas using many improvised landing strips and mobile maintenance and fueling. Finland is currently using F18s same way. We have 63 planes and at least 64 runways for them. We ordered 64 F35s, and they are going to have similar role. USAF planes are now training that in Finland, landing on small roads in middle of nowhere. Gripen is not stealth, but it has electronic warfare systems for survivability. I think it would have been a good choice for Finland also. It's purpose built for areal defence bit guerilla style warfare for larger enemy. Gripens would be good for Ukraine, short takeoff, quick, maintainable, can use nearly any straight road, small to hide. F16 has air intake unde fuselage, it's not good for dirty roads.
Fun fact: gripen is combat tested vs su 27, more specifically chinese su 27. Thailand airforce did a combat exercise vs the chinese airforce where the gripen scored 41 kills and 9 losses in bvr, only losing out in close range dogfighting.
Not surprising, given the scenario, but a useful example to point to when training F35 pilots: this is why you don't dogfight unless there is no other choice.
It's not just the F35, all pilots are discouraged from performing a merge including F22 pilots. Contrary to popular belief there is no need for a gun in aerial combat. There hasn't been a guns kill against a high performance jet since Vietnam.
@@KellyBrownlee Well it's going to be a loss for the US if Navy pilots have to resort to guns because neither the F35B or C models have an internal cannon. The external cannon is only installed for interdiction or CAS missions.
Correct. The Typhoon _does have_ stealth capabilities, just not as advanced ones as the F-22 or the F-35 (note: these capabilities come at a price) and its avionics have been kept up-to-date, so 4.5 gen really.
The F-35 is meant to be everything needed by a variety of users with wildly differing requirements and as a consequence it does not excel at any of it. That is especially the case from the moment that whatever ordinance the F-35 needs to complete its mission does not fit into the internal weapons bays. The Germans call that 'nullachtfünfzehn', which is something that is adequate but not an iota more than that.
I am a pilot but most certainly not a veteran pilot with hundreds of hours in a supersonic jet fighter, so I am quite happy to accept the word of the two real pilots who were actually there at the time.
typon is jsut as much a sniper ...f35 has the assasin perk thats the only difference....you could argue typhon is even more of a sniper becasue of the MUCH more powerful radar on board......~260-300km vs 450-520km top range....giving it (on its own) far superiror guidance capability...........sniper without gullysuit? or beginner gully suit becasue the typhon has 2% radar signature of the coldwar eara mic so it is stealthy its just not the focus :D ..... in reality this doesnt matter the f35 is never used as a standalone thingy.....its totaly pointless to use it like that, you use it as a delivery system....its more a UPS than a sniper if you want to be mean ....have soemthign else track the target you are just delivering a payload to the gardenfence which does come into the house all by it self no need to stay around :P
@tangohotel2599 F35 and typhoon have demonstratred full datalink cabability back in 2017 aka they both have access to the full array of "extra" stuff around if they need it :P google: "data link f35 typhon RAF"
That is not a surprise. The Typhoon would whoop an f35 every day of the week in a dog fight. The point is the F35 shouldnt be getting in dogfights and firing before the opposition knows its there. The Typhoon is a beast.
lol some of you are clueless F35 will fire it's missiles before a Eurofighter even see it, dogfights are for Top Gun fan girls as do not exist anymore. F35 uses AWACS and even naval assets to see targets and fire long before visual range. Then you got Australia F35 that will use Australia MQ28 Ghost bat world most advanced AI combat drone as a loyal wingman, Ghost bat has AI drone swarm capabilities and Australia will use these to be sent ahead of F35 or any of Australia manned platforms to absorb enemy fire letting the manned platform perform more critical missions. So your Eurofighters be busy dogfighting drones and be shot out of the sky by a F35 still not even in visual or radar range.. Europe so far behind it is hilarious....
@@nedkelly9688should we tell him that Europe has the exact same modernisation programms going on? The problem with the F35 is that radar systems these days are getting better at an alarming pace. Large L band radars were already capable of detecting dedicated stealth aircraft at ranges over 100 miles, and with Radar systems getting more advanced it's only a matter of time until plane based radar systems can do the same - so it's basically only about getting a solid lock and building weapon systems that can actually hold said lock in their terminal phase. The 1st problem goes hand in hand with the upgrades of radar systems - several modern radar systems have already been confirmed to be able to provide a solid lock at 40 - 50km of range whilst IRST systems like the PIRATE can provide can provide a lock at 80 - 100km on a F22 depending on the relative flightpath (gotta look that up again but iikr they tested that one during a blue flag exercise in Alaska). Now of course that still gives the Stealth aircraft certain advantages over their opponent, but for how long will those advantages last? Was the NGAD programm really scrapped because of budgetary overruns (which was a thing with basically every big aircraft development programm) or did it invest so heavily into stealth that the USAF would find it to be already obsolete once it would go into serial production? Instead they're now heavily investing in their F22 fleet, retrofitting them with modern avionics, which could be indicate a change in doctrine since the F22 is actually also a capable fighter aircraft without any stealth advantages. But at the end these are just some theories so we gotta see how it turns out. But one fact is clear: building aircraft purely around their stealth ability is no future proof concept.
Yepp ...not the first time ! It happens even with the F22 ... Years ago at Goose bay ? Red Flag competition ... Eurofighter-Pilot-Comment then: "A kind of turkey-shooting".... BUT in this cases it was mostly dogfight scenarios. And in this respect the Eurofighter is clearly superior. What do we learn from this? Both types of aircraft have their specific strengths and roles in air combat. If the two fighters rise together and everyone plays their role and supports each other, an opponent probably has little chance of winning. So keep practicing together!!!
@@anthonyk423 yea, while i'd argue there's probably a bit more to it than just the drop tank situation (pilot training etc), it was only a "turkey shoot" because of the added drag that came from these bags. And to be fair i've rarely seen videos / pictures of Raptors rocking bags, i think it's more or less a pure ferry setup and not meant for an actual deployment situation (and even if it was, in an actual deployment they would've been dropped anyways, IF it even came to the merge). I think the whole "turkey shoot" thing was blown way out of proportion, especially over here in Germany.. Typhoon's still a beast though, no doubt about that.
@@anthonyk423 The F-22 lost without drop tanks against the Rafale, wich is very similar to the typhoon in terms of agility and dogfight capabilities. The french publiced a HUD video to proove it, after the americans claimed the F-22 was unbeaten during that exercise.
@ ok so if that’s true then where is the video. Also the FA22 scored a lot of wins against Rafale which yall just seem to ignore and try to focus on this one win that you got where the rafale had the advantage. I’d bet the F15ex could beat the rafale and typhoon. The
@@anthonyk423 th-cam.com/video/ioTTnjxNc7o/w-d-xo.html And where exactly are those videos of the F-22 beating the Rafale so many times? You seem to know very little about fighter jets. The F-15EX is a modernized version of the F-15E Strike Eagle, wich is a fat pig fighter bomber not capable of proper dogfights. It cannot compete with the Typhoon or the Rafale in a dogfight. Educate yourself instead of spreading overpatriotic americanism. That the americans claimed the F-22 was unbeaten and the french then publiced a video to proove the americans to lie, is very telling.
It is nice that you see us as friends, what we are. But your future Gov seems to see us as an Opponent. 😞My time with US Air Force members at a German air base was a very nice and an unforgettable experience. It was a nice frindship, that is 30 years ago but never forgotten.
@@stefang.2937 I think you misunderstand the future government of the US. While yes, they will look more inwards this term, you seem to underestimate the stability that will bring inside their country and therefore in the world. Whether you like it or not the US is extremely important for world stability and , sometimes ironically, world peace. You would want them to be as stable as possible. Keep in mind that the coming president was the only one even entertaining the idea of peace in the east, unlike the current administration. Also us Europeans need to get our shit together, it is time to get off our lazy, cheap asses and finally put our foot down.
@@RichelieuUnlimited lol F35 brings stealth and fires it's missiles hundreds of kilometres away before ever being seen and show you know nothing. if has to get in a dogfight then it failed from beginning. All Australian F35 will have MQ28 Ghost bat mosr advanced AI combat drone as loyal wingman so the Eurofighter will be blown up while trying to shoot down these drones by the F35 pilot...
Okay so as i understand it, this is the third time Luftwaffe Eurofighters have beaten USAF F-35s. The first time was in Alaska in 2012 or so (the famous "raptor salad" episode). Second time was around 2019, when some USAF F-35s visited a German air base and challenged their hosts to some impromptu and unplanned dogfights (the winning German pilot, whose identity was revealed, then jokingly told journalists that he is an experienced pilot with a few tricks up his sleeve) and now this.
To be honest, I think the point of exercises like this often negates the results of "dogfight" that every media outlet likes to use in the headline. You don't run exercises with it's huge costs to put your fighters in the best situations and then beat down on other disadvantaged foes. They exercise is to put your pilots in a difficult situation and see if they can figure it out, or to teach future pilots how to mitigate a disadvantage. A pair, 4 ship, squadron of F-35s that enters into enemy territory against an equivalent force using 4++ gen fighters will come in the engagement with a datalink between the fighters and AWACs, seeing the plain as day huge radar returns of the 4++ jet. The F-35s will then turn into the enemy AWACs to take advantage of their frontal radar cross section, fly towards the AWAC or 4++ jet, and then fly to the optimal range to launch missiles with high probability of kill and minimal chance that the enemy AWACs or 4++ fighter's radar can provide a radar track with high Pk on the F-35. It's literally a physics thing, stealth minimizes detection and the ability to track once found. The engagements will be in the tens of miles range and no dogfighting necessary. I mean, even today, in contested air space and integrated air defense like in Ukraine, what are the number of dogfights you've heard about? Mock battles are to fight from a disadvantage to learn and experience things, the US already has the biggest air force in the world, it doesn't need to punch down to learn anything.
@@georgelee4308 4++ don‘t have a huge radar return, they’re considered _semi-stealth_. The F-35 would be able to spot them at ~120km, but by the time it had reasonable launch parameters, it would be spotted itself.
lil girl child go back to watching topgun, F35 is not a dogfighter at all and it is built to hit enemy way beyond visual range before even detected by any radar. these war games are just for fun and funny part is USA is gathering intel on how others fight, you showed all your cards and they did not. is hilarious Be hilarious when a fully AI drone takes out your so called German pilot with few tricks up his sleeve...
Sabine Schmitz RIP, from Germany was the greatest driver around the ring faster than most people even when driving a transit van, absolutely brilliant driver and very sadly missed. 🌹
For all saying that the f35 is not a dogfighter, yes this is true but even at a range of 60km the pirate infrared system of the eurofighter can accurately track targets and create lock ons. So if the f35 gets this close without getting the kill, the stealth capabilities are diminished.
Worth mentioning that the F35 is never going to fight a Typhoon for real, the Typhoon is better than what China or Russia has so if F35 pilots train with the Typhoon they'll have no issues against any eastern planes
I know I'm getting old but I'm pretty sure the Typhoon can take out targets well beyond visual range . Having work on RAF Phantom's in the 70s they could as well, it was their main air defence role not dog fighting, then the F3 Tornado received criticism for not being a dog fighter, it was never meant to be it's job was to shoot down enemy aircraft before they came close (beyond visual range), a job it was very capable of. The arm chair experts need to understand the aircraft they are talking about before coming out with some of the comments that they do, and though an aircraft engineer in the RAF for over thirty years I wouldn't call myself an expert but someone who has a reasonable understanding of the role of some combat aircraft. Well done to the Eurofighter now let's give some to Ukraine.
Proudly American but happy to see that it wasn't a cake walk for our fighters/pilots. Being the "king of the hill" (per se) as we are, we really need to be tested and pushed out of any complacency. I'd 'love' to as true a test as possible between out other military assists (ships, tanks, etc) and proxy threats. I remember hearing .. some time back.. that a Swedish sub scored a "hit" against one of our military vessels. Great to know we are not invincible and that we need to always up the game. Slava Ukraiini... 'Slava' US/NATO.
I only know of a German sub having sneaked into an US carrier group which made some fotos through the periscope. Some minutes later the fotos were emailed to the carrier with the title "boom".
Happens a lot USA pilots even say Australian pilots are just as good as them. Australian subs have sunk over 5 US destroyers and other surface ships, have gone hit for hit equally against US Virginia class subs is even a youtube documentary of a Australian sub in a war game within range of sinking a US destroyer. had 4 Destroyers it had to get passed undetected to do it. USA even cheated by keeping active sonar on when were supposed to turn it off so the Aus sub could sneak away then try sneak back in to range. Oh and RIMPAC 2000 Australian sub snuck passed USS Ronald Reagan escort fleet and took pics close enough to fire torpedoes also.
We did fly against the F22 in Abu Dhabi a couple of years ago... we did beat them in Dogfight every time... we always did loose at range because we couldnt pick em up... at last we couldnt pick em up back then.
@@ab-te8kv you might want to look a little closer into simulated merged engagements against the F-22, they literally always start with the F-22 defensive, in almost every single engagement, BVR or merged where the F-22 is allowed to start in a neutral position it wins.
@@KHETTIUS i dont think so... I work on the Eurofighter, and its my experience of that specific 3week exercise at Abu Dhabi. Do you work on the F22 or are a Pilot of that fighter and talk of experience, or is it just your opinion because you did read something on the internet? That beeing said, its very very unlikely a F22 has to go into a Dogfight at all.
@@aasimarGER I have family members who are in the RAF, and have direct experience in exercises with the F-22. The US has never demonstrated the full capability of the F-22, even in NATO/joint exercises for obvious reasons.
The Hensold passive radar can detect F35s through the "hole" they produce in the electromagnetic clutter ... not sure whether it can be deployed on a Eurofighter, but the Hensold technology seems to be sensitive enough to make conventional stealth sort of obsolete ... Curious to see where the entire field is moving to ... and whether the West will stay ahead. This deems more necessary than ever ...
Hensold radar is massive and is made up of two parts and thus can't be loaded into a fighter jet. It also can possibly detect the F-35 but can't be used to guide missiles for a kill. And besides if it was mounted on a fighter jet, the F-35 can detect it first and demolish it from 100 miles away.
@@winblard5154 actually its not that big and the radar systems in jets are not much smaller. The entire nose of the jets are filled with the radar system. in comprehension it could even be smaller but the comparission is quite flawed because the geometry is totally different because of obvious reasons
@@winblard5154 1.The eurofighters advanced sensor suite and ecm would easily deal with any incoming 2. the f35 cna be radar locked from a eurofighter in below 70km and even further with ir lock
@ the F-35 radar can lock into the Eurofighters “huge”radar return from 150 km away. F-35 can therefore see first and kill first. No matter how you look at it, the technology in the F-35 surpasses that of the Eurofighter which is the reason why the European air forces who have Eurofighters on their fleet have decided to add the F-35 to their fleet.
@@winblard5154 @winblard5154 1.see first and shoot first=/ kill first 2. the sensor suite and radar on the eurofighter ar far ahead of the f35s 3. the only reason germany is getting f35s is because the eurofighter isnt allowed to carry american nukes
We don't know what were the exact engagement parameters. For example, was the F35 carrying aim9x or latest aim120 missiles, with over the shoulder launch capabilities? Was it only a gun fight?
It's stealth doesn't work especially overseas where old radar systems are in use they light right up on radar. Stealth on paper to justify the cost, but doesn't actually work, and the thing is so damn slow and very limited range
What should worry the US even more: German Radar system can look right through the stealth abilities of every stealth plane. They were able to do this even some 20 years ago. How I know? A now deceased buddy from university did develop the radar systems. I am more of a software guy while he was a true hardware guru but still we both had the same electrical science courses and I have a rough idea how he did it from a conversation we had back in university...
These exercises are meant for the F-35 and F-22 to lose by tying one hand behind their backs so both pilots can learn. Normally, the F-35 would attack the other aircraft before they even knew where it was.
@@tonyman905 And...what? And so that's why they do them. I was mainly responding to the other comment. It's not like they make them so that someone has to "purposely lose" or "have their hands tied". They make them a certain way because war isn't fair and, sometimes, you can find yourself in a sh*tty situation, even if you were supposed to have an advantage over your enemy.
@@tonyman905 1. gun only fight means F-35 cant use its avionics to negate the performance gap, let it use its LOAL, HMS and missiles and it wins even in close range fight 2. no system on Typhoon is more advanced than ones used on F-35 because they BOTH use co-developed technology, if anything as F-35 is getting upgrades and Typhoons are slowly nearing theyr end of service the F-35 should have more modern variant of those systems than whatever version is currently in use on Typhoons and no Typhoon would stand no chance in BVR, its radar wont be able to achieve weapon lock before entering the no escape zone of the F-35 ... when theyr radars are basically on par with each other but one has 80 times smaller RCS its plainly obvious which one of them will have first shoot capability against each other ... which means F-35 can fly high severely increasing its AMRAAMs range and lethality while Tyhoon would be forced to fly low and on defensive only allow small windows of opportunity to engage while F-35 would be able to hardlock the Typhoon and give its missiles huge advantage in tracking capability way above the capability of the missile seeker itself
To be fair the F35 is also built by BA Systems. I drive past the Salisbury one everyday and they have one parked at the main entrance. I work next to the Wharton branch and see them everyday testing them.
If the f35 is in a dog fight in the real world, the opps have been mostly eliminated and the merging aircraft are actually dog fighting several f35’s or f35/f22’s.
No, not really. Its a mistake to assume that plane is invisible, period. It will show up on RADAR, even on not the most modern ones. The issue is understanding what it is you see and making the right decisions to engage it, if necessary by closing the gap. The F-35 is a multi-role plane, so it will get over heavily defended areas. To get there, they will try to avoid as much ground based RADAR sites as they can, but eventually the soup will get too thick and thats when the plane becomes vulnerable to a degree to an enemy that not only expects it to be there but also has the means to engage it right there close up and personal with air assets. Also, stealth does nothing to hide your heat signature. Which is also a reason for why soviet era planes all come with an extensive IR detection sensor array.
What a luck that we are alies and though both advantages are to our common advantage, and hopefully that will remain that way so that never ever any German nor American Pilot have to engage against each other (without afterwards laughing together and having learned from each other), in friendship from Germany, you're doing a great job 👌
2:22 these kind of mock up engagements happen all the times in Italy since 2022 this is certainly NOT the "First engagement of that kind in Europe" It is only natural that an Eurofighter pilot win in a visual engagement because of how the two planes perform in a dogfight and because of the big IR sensor on the EF2000 nose.
Calling the Eurofighter a fourth gen isn’t really accurate, as it outclasses something like a F-15, F-16 or any Flanker variant by a substantial margin. If _full_ stealth wasn’t a requirement, it would be fifth gen, and if you consider something like a Su-57 a fifth gen, then Eurofighter, Rafale and Super Hornet are also fifth gens, as they‘re just as stealthy. That’s why the terms 4++ and 4.5 are used. In terms of avionics, aerodynamics, kinematics and propulsion they’re at least fifth gen, especially the Eurofighter.
In BVR a F-35‘s best bet against a Eurofighter is to run away, as it has insufficient ammunition to deplete the Eurofighter’s countermeasures (2x towed decoy, 2x IRIS-T + chaff, ECM…) and would have to get too close to use them anyway and once the Eurofighter has spotted the F-35, it’s over for the F-35 as it cannot counter and evade all of the Eurofighter’s Meteors.
@@RichelieuUnlimited You should have watched the video. The German pilot said that in real life the F35 would have killed him before he knew it was there. He didn't mention anything about overwhelming countermeasures. He just said that he would have been deleated.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225That means he was either humble or is underestimating the capabilities of his jet. He should be able to track the F-35 at 40km using the Eurofighter’s Captor-M, the ECRS Mk0 (Captor-E) of later variants should do so at 59km and the upcoming ECRS Mk1 and Mk2 likely at even greater ranges due to their increased frequency range. That’s all outside the AMRAAMs NEZ. If Meteor for F-35 ever comes, it could change things slightly, but still not something that would be recommended. It is however a theoretical discussion, as it’s highly unlikely they’ll every face off against each other in real combat.
@@RichelieuUnlimited The AIM-120D-3 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) has a range of over 180 kilometers (112 miles). Also, the AIM 260 will be in airplanes soon.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 At optimal launch parameters (which a F-35 cannot achieve) ^against a compliant target. The Meteor, which has a propulsion system that is *three times* as efficient overall as a conventional solid rocket, has at the same overall size as an AMRAAM only an NEZ of ~60km. It is *physically impossible* for either an AMRAAM or the upcoming AIM-260 to come even remotely close to that level of performance.
The Eurofighter also beat the F22 in a dogfight. These modern stealth fighters might be good at long range engagements, killing an enemy fighter before they are even detected, but in a dogfight they seem to be pretty useless.
These are scripted scenarios and limits what the F-35 and the F-22 can actually do. Just like the article that an F-15 did well against an F-22 in a dogfight, then the USAF did the same scenario with 4 F-15 vs 1 F-22 without restrictions, the 4-F-15 were destroyed in less than 5 minutes. The F-35 radar will overwhelm the Eurofighter radar and targeting system, still is told not to employ the tactic. The fact is, you can't take most of these scripted scenarios seriously. The F-22 will destroy any fighterjet without effort in real combat.
@@MKO-USAhe was talking about a dogfight... also do you really think jamming a state of the art radar system is that easy? Also I wanna remind you that the US had exactly the same mindset at the beginning of WW2 "yeah those japanese got nothing against our airforce" - turns out their Zero outperformed any US navy plane at basically every metric whilst all the P40 could do was running away. Chinese fighters aren't that far off compared to US ones - and their ability to detect stealth is getting better by the day...
@@bluefox9436 The top 3 US fighter in the pacific without a question beat down the Japanese Zeros: The F6F Hellcat’s kill to loss ratio was about 19 to 1. the P-38 Lighting achieved 3785 total kills with a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and the F4U Corsair achieved 1400 total kills with 1300 fighters and 300 bombers with only 141 lost in combat with a 9.9 to 1 kill ratio. If you add the FG-1D Corsair to the mix the kill ratio increases to 11 to 1. Without a question your knowledge of WWII is limited...very limited. WWII. The top 3 US fighter in the pacific without a question beat down the Japanese Zeros: The F6F Hellcat’s kill to loss ratio was about 19 to 1. The P-38 Lighting achieved 3785 total kills with a 7 to 1 kill ratio. And the F4U Corsair achieved 1400 total kills with 1300 fighters and 300 bombers with only 141 lost in combat with a 9.9 to 1 kill ratio. If you add the FG-1D Corsair to the mix the kill ratio increases to 11 to 1. Let me address Chinese fighter. LMFAO! Every Chinese stealth today use underpower 4th generation engines. In fact, China started testing its new 5th gen engines two months ago. China's radars in its fighters are a copy of Russia's radars but the export version, not even the Russian version equipped in its fighter jets. China lags behind in Stealth coating and datalink networking and new US missiles have far longer range than Chinese missiles. Let me address Chinas ability to detect stealth...LOL, even data leaked about Russia's S-400 put the distance that can detect an F-35 for locking at 20 miles from the radar location...I doubt China can do better than that when China's is pushing to get the S-400 as its main air defense batteries. Evidently your knowledge is trash and anyone with the basics just laugh at your comment.
@@bluefox9436 Addressing the dog fighting...these are controlled scenarios that place the fighter jets in proximity and limit what the F-35 can do. Not to be considered seriously as it does not reflect a real combat situation.
These are scripted scenarios and limits what the F-35 and the F-22 can actually do. Just like the article that an F-15 did well against an F-22 in a dogfight, then the USAF did the same scenario with 4 F-15 vs 1 F-22 without restrictions, the 4-F-15 were destroyed in less than 5 minutes. The F-35 radar will overwhelm the Eurofighter radar and targeting system, still is told not to employ the tactic. The fact is, you can't take most of these scripted scenarios seriously. The F-22 will blow any fighter jet in the world without any effort in real combat. The F-35 will surprise everyone if the scenarios let them use all its abilities.
@@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723 What a stupid comment, then why not use missiles and long range tactics? Stupid is what stupid says. Can't handle the fact that these "scenarios" are limited in scope and combat capabilities? LMAO!
@@MKO-USA hard copium is what i read here....a single f35 will do jackshit as its not designed to be on its own what so ever. ....withotu additional targeting support the f35 wont see what its supposed to shot at either.....making the up close and personal much mroe likely.....and 160km in its going to be IR tracked doest matter how well its radar stealth is....and the f22s have one major problem their carry is realy badly desinged to if they get intercepted on a mission they can abort the mission and drop what ever payload and tanks they carry on the spot to survive or get shot down......they are great if used as interceptors them selfs aka DEFENCILY without any extra weight, but fall out of sky if actualy sent on a mission for anything else one of the main reasons why the cry for a multirole was so deafening......
@@proxis9980 LMAO! If you believe what you just posted you are no doubt a moron. The F-22 is an Air superiority fighter, the F-35 is a multi-role fighter designed to even take on A-10 missions. The F-35 is a suppressor as it overwhelms the other fighter systems. The Typhoon only chance is to be within visual range and still the F-35 can lock at it by just having the pilot looking at Typhoon. In a real combat situation, the Typhoon will be gone before it knows the F-35 is around. Nothing in this earth can match the F-22, period. “Copium”? LMAO, some people live in fantasy like @proxis9980 . F-35s are not designed to be on its own? LOL!
I'm tired of this type of story. So what were the rules of engagement? Was it a two aircraft dogfight only? Did they start with a BVR exchange and end up in a knife fight? Were there multiple aircraft? ... simulating a realistic combat environment? ... with AWACS on both sides? ... with stealth defeating sensors? ... did they use ECM? because all of those things matter. The deeper you get into that list the more accurately you simulate a combat environment. Just putting one Eurofighter and one F-35 into a cage and telling the pilots to dogfight doesn't really tell one very much about how these aircraft will perform in a real shooting war, not that this will stop patriotic fanboys from starting a flame war over it 🤣.
BVR doesn’t work in combat against an opponent with an advanced airforce. In Vietnam the airspace was so saturated with airplanes friendly fire was so bad you were not aloud to engage an enemy with out visual conformation
@@LEJapproach No, they were not actually, even some of them was hinted at. Just the fact this was a guns only scenario was omitted, where at that point every single advantage the F-35 has had been removed.
@@KjetilBalstad Not just that as the fuel configuration could also be different as most of theses "fight senarios" are done by the usaf to test each other in a dogfight as it most likely the F35 was fully fueled while the eurofighter wasn't which can change a lot in thrust to weight ratio and probably the f35 had dummy missiles in it's weapons bay to also make it heavier, as I wouldn't fully count on that, but in theses senarios the usaf wants it's pilots have a very very hard time to beat it's offensive opponent since thats how they can train on that when they go back home. It's like the Uk vs us marines bs, the usa marines went up against 6 different countries of personnel and they had us air support,.
As much as it is true that the stealth capabilities of the F-35 give it an edge, keep one thing in mind: It can't fire at an adversary beyond visual range without switching on its own radar, which means the adversary will definitely know that something is there. The common tale of shooting down another plane without it knowing that something is even there only holds up if you also throw in other support in the ring to locate the target in the first place. Missiles with infrared seekers are a different story, but they work on short distances only. The F-35 is a formidable plane, but it has its limitations. And in a real conflict no one should be surprised if some get lost, as its definitely not an invincible plane.
Of course it can. They network their radars or even use data from AWACS or ground based targeting radars. The Swedish Gripen has been able to do that for decades and of course the F-35 can do the same. No need to switch on your radar, you fire silent.
@@5.56mm not to mention that the AESA radar that is onboard the F-35 is specifically designed to scan rapidly on a narrow beam on hopping fequencies to make interception or jamming difficult.
@@5.56mm Yes F35 can and Australia has been using it with the Australian designed E7 Wedgetail for years and also Australia will use the Australian designed MQ28 Ghost bat most advanced ai drone in the world. Ghost bat will fly ahead of the F35 and take out enemy targets while saving the F35...
@@5.56mm F35 of Australia is also connected to all Australian surface ships and JORN OTHR radar. USA and Japan also connecting theirs to JORN through the AEGIS battle systems...
I would argue that the A model F35 would lose to an F15 on the rate fight and to an F16 on the turnfight, cus it isnt actually made for it. The B and C are even heavier and the Vtol one is actually a brick.
Not really for the C version, because in fact it's the one with the wider wingspan (the A and B have the shortest wingspan, which is a notorious problem). So it would turn better, the intrado and extrado airflow would make it better. It would roll slower, yes, but it has more lift and that's what matters here. The other biggest issue is the fact that the F-35 is girthy, so it's aero performance to begin with is less than ideal but it's mostly the fact that the vapor appears a lot sooner on the wings than other aircrafts, indicating how much the airframe's design struggles to redirect vortices to turn. It really isn't good at achieving high Angle of Attack (AoA) but the C version has more room to play with because of that bigger wingspan on a diamond wing design (a subvariant of delta wing design).
The reason that the Typhoon pilot had never seen the F-35 is that it usually kills you before you see him. 10 to 1 kill ratio in Red Flag. In what real world scenario will a F-35 be vectored into a specific area without any other radar support, no network battle space intelligence, or any other information, and be instructed to engage in a Within Visual Range Dog Fight deliberately? This is simply a stupid test. Maybe it was specifically designed to scare the F-35 pilots so they wouldn't be overconfident, and to buck up the allies that they have a chance.
On the other hand, Red Flag is heavily in favor of stealth fighters, since a firing solution already indicates a kill. The F-35 overall evades right that, while the EF has a big emphasis defending against incoming missiles (so after firing solution) and will (implying similar skilled pilots) likely perform a lot better in a setting when a missile is on the way with a stable lock. In a more realistic (still 1v1, same skill) combat environment, the F-35 "only" has a finite amount of six 120´s. From the outside, hard to know, how the EF would manouver-defend the firing solutions in RF. And if/how these would effect each of their missions. In the end, the F-35 performs a lot better in a real combat environment with additional platforms. By heavily modifying the effectivity of other platforms.
Assuming both pilots know what they are doing, the F-35 will have it's butt kicked almost every time against a Typhoon, cause that is not the role it was made for. It will be intresting to know how the Typhoon would perform against an F-22.
That has been tested by numerous EF Typhoons in several excercises during the last 10-15 years. British, German, even Italian air force, if memory serves right.
F22 was also beaten in dogfight. In long range F22 has the better setup, but it was also locked by the EF. The New Mk.4 or the upcoming Mk.5 with the new Meteor will make it hard for the F22 and for sure for the F35
@@psav7 no it wont ... only planes capable of going toe to toe in BFM with F-35A would be Rafale, Typhoon, Raptor and SU57. Any other jet 35 can beat even in guns only dogfight
... the Typhoon is the best pure-flyer I've ever seen; I've all the respect in-the-world for this economically-viable, near-perfect fighter. The Lightning-II, on-the-other-hand, is a tad-sluggish and burdened by an incredible price-tag. However, with that said... it is also... the best-damned weapon-system... mankind has ever developed. The two planes tactically compliment one-another extremely-well as "hammer-and-anvil". Hopefully... they will never see companionship during a full-scale-conflict in such-a-manner. Additionally, there are those in the general-public that continue to compare levels of "stealth" to the F-35. DON'T. Even if we were just measuring stealth through both "on-board" passive and active "stealth-dynamics"... the Lightning's advantage would probably still be too great. However, that's not what makes the F-35 the greatest weapon-system ever developed. It's what is not on the plane that makes it most impressive. The "semi-autonomous war-mind" at JTFOC that it was developed to seamlessly and functionally fuse-with... is the real star-of-the-show. The massive data-stream that is flowing between aircraft and hive-mind is staggering... and is responsible for comparatively and predictively amplifying the electronics-suite on the Lightning to levels upon which we can only speculate. This is where the majority of developmental-cost was sunk; this is the fact of which the general-public is most unaware. All said, there's a reason this plane is sold so "casually" to so-many countries outside the United States and its allied project-developmental-partners: it does not come equipped with "the recommended pilot".
Everyone knows "well almost everyone" the F-35 is not a dogfighter, What outcome did you really expect 🙄 This "news" is something that a child would already know by just looking up the two aircrafts specifications.
In dogfights pilot skills are most important and the F-35 is not as hopelessly outclassed in this respect as you seem to suggest. In addition: have you watched the video? It's about a lot more than just who won the dogfight. Oh, and what about the F-22? It has thrust-vectoring(!), so on paper it should beat the Typhoon any time, but in reality it doesn't.
@@LEJapproach The F-35 and F-22 are not dogfighters and we're never promoted to be that "the F-22 can dogfight very well but in today's battlefield it's doesn't really happen", these aircraft are air dominance aircraft to destroy targets at range before the enemy knows they are there. They are designed to protect groups of F-15E/F18 Super hornets and high value aircraft like the B52s. Not to mention helicopters. The F-35 is absolutely fantastic for detecting the enemy and transferring data to the F22s so they can intercept and destroy anything that gets remotely close, if the F-22 ever got into a situation of dogfighting something has gone spectacularly wrong. The Eurofighter Typhoon on the other hand is designed for QRA to shoot down incoming bombers and lighter attacking aircraft at much shorter ranges, the typhoon is a dedicated multi-roll aircraft that has to be agile and fast because it can't loiter over a battlefield with stealth technology like the F-22 does, also the usa has many assets working together where countries that have the typhoon does not have this capability to the same efficiency. I could go on and on about the differences but I won't as this would be way too long, So in the end trying to compare these aircraft is absolutely pointless, It's like trying to compare an ford van with a top end racing car. In reality a group of F-22s "usually four of them" would absolutely obliterate typhoons at range before they knew what hit them.
@@LEJapproach oh my really, you need me to explain this. Ok, do you need your ears, in reality no you don't do you, you can still see,eat,run,walk, breath ect ect. But if you had those ears don't you think that's an advantage if you were ever put in a situation where they would be beneficial "like someone sneaking up on you" Do you see where I am going with this, The F-22 doesn't need thrust vectoring but it has it because if the situation arises it has an advantage that potential enemies do not, Many military aircraft do not have thrust vectoring but it's an advantage if you ever get into that situation, Like I said the F-22 is not a dogfighter per say it's an air dominance fighter, Primary roll to dominate the air and getting into a dogfight is not the way to dominate the airspace over a battlefield, "look up what Fighter aircraft means" The F-22 is an aircraft designed to kill from distance it doesn't carry a huge amount of missiles itself so it hunts in packs and no modern military will ever want a pack of four F-22s in a dogfight. No single F-22 will ever be used in that way in war. Also the thrust vectoring is an aid for take offs where the control services are used less. It's not just for dogfighting but it can help if the situation arises. This is a pointless argument. People who keep going on about "dogfighting" think it's still WW1 or WW2 and it shows they have very little understanding of modern warfare. Most aircraft don't want to be near enemy aircraft anyway on the battlefield, look at Ukraine today there is very little dogfighting at all, ground to air missile systems are a major threat and short ranged missiles on aircraft are mostly used for drones and helicopters not other aircraft " it's not Vietnam or the Falklands anymore" Putting an asset like the F-22 in a dogfighting situation is completely reckless, can it do it then yes of course it can but that is not its primary goal...
@@davedevonlad7402 You don' talk sense my friend. You say _"Many military aircraft do not have thrust vectoring but it's an advantage if you ever get into that situation"_ And I ask you: Which "situation" would that be? You can say it wasn't about dogfighting as long as you like, but the fact of the matter is: it doesn't get any more 'dogfighty' than having thrust vectoring, because it's added at a lot of extra cost in acquisition as well as in maintenance for one reason: it enables you to go post-stall, meaning you can fly controlled maneuvers where an aircraft without it simply falls out of the sky! So please stop twisting and turning. This is about dogfighting. Period! And now back to the point. The F-22 is not some cumbersome B-52, it's an advanced, highly capable fighter aircraft and with thrust vectoring it has a clear advantage over the Typhoon that doesn't have it. So if the Typhoon wins a dogfight, it's clearly not because the F-22 wasn't designed for it. I mean, AFAIK the Typhoon didn't win each time, so does that mean if the F-22 wins it's designed for it all of a sudden? No, it means what I said from the beginning: in a dogfight pilot skills are most important and even if they constantly tell you US pilots are the best, that's simply not true. Other countries have brilliant pilots too! And just by the way: the Eurofighter Typhoon has never been designed as a 'dogfighter' too. If it had been, why does _it_ not have thrust vectoring? As a 'dogfighter' this is like being a virtuoso pianist without ears, to stick with your example!
Excellent even-handed video. My only criticism is that it was too short. It was great to watch the pilots talk about the dogfight, and how the F35 would likely have eliminated an enemy aircraft before the enemy knew it was there. Also, bravo for your support of Ukraine and its people. I wonder what the next few days will signal, in terms of future US aid.
Not really news. The Eurofighter is an air superiority fighter first, with the ability to perform air-to-ground missions added on. The F-35 is a bomb truck first with the ability to go air-to-air if needed. In an air-to-air situation, the Eurofighter will always be favoured. It has a higher radar cross section that the F-35, but vastly better missiles, not to mention turn , climb, and speed.
You should answer the question, if F-35 had Luneburg lenses removed from its airframe against EASA regulations, that make F-35 visible like every other regular aircraft, and what were the rules of engagement.
@@wolflarsen1900 Most of us interested in this topic knows about these, but in this scenario they wouldn't matter as this was a WVR guns only scenario...
A Tranche 1 twin-seat training Eurofighter beat two F-15s in a simulated dogfight. The F-15 is simply outclassed in practically all metrics by the Eurofighter.
The F-15 is 4 meters longer than the Eurofighter and weights 4 tons more. Not a good candidate for dogfights. The F-18 or even F-16 would be better at dogfighting.
@dadigan5117 F-15 would be badly outmatched vs the Typhoon. The only aircraft in the world that can have a fair dogfight with a Typhoon is the F-22. Sure, the F-22 {and F-35) should win at BVR, however up close the Typhoon has a clear edge.
@@kilik407 only one of SUs can stand a chance against Typhoon and even then its kinda iffy as Su57 STILL hasnt got its projected engines and uses "testing phase" prototypes that are way under the spec of its "real" ones and unreliable as F
Well, i'm sure it is meant to be used in fieldservice together with dogfight jets like the F-15 EX, F-16 and maybe now together with the Eurofighter Typhoon. As far as i have heard about it from a different channel here (i think it was Thorsten Heinrich's "Militär & Geschichte") it's real capability is more like the kind of connected electronic warfare with things like transferring an already fired air-to-air missile forwarded to it by a different jet and sending it up to the final target. That would be indeed a unique feature.
As a fan of the Eurofighter I know the Eurofighter has exploded in flames before the pilot of the Eurofighter has even noticed the F-35 was in the air. 😅
We've still got like a zillion F-15s and F-16s and the Eurofighter is an allied countries fighters. The "F-35 beat in dogfight..." trolling is hilarious. Kind of like when they stuck giant tanks and gave the F-22 a giant radar profile, limited missile range, and said you can only dogfight like X now go engage... and it lost. Why even fly either plane if they're not gonna be used? I get it though. Train for worst case scenario, win with massive overmatch every time.
F35 was sold as a replacement for fighter aircraft because it can do the role of fighter. Sadly this was not accurate. Many years ago, A test pilot report detailed the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a mock air battle against a two-seat F-16D. The F-16D-based on a design developed 40 years ago and from a production run in the mid-1990s-bested the F-35 in close-range combat maneuvers. In the report, the F-35 pilot reported that his aircraft was in a "clean" configuration for the test, carrying nothing under its wings or in its internal weapons bays. The F-16, on the other hand, was flying with under-wing external fuel drop-tanks, which in theory would have put the aircraft at an aerodynamic disadvantage. Apparently, it didn't. "Even with the limited F-16 target configuration, the F-35A remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement," the F-35 pilot reported. That means the F-35 constantly found itself flying slower and more sluggishly, unable to effectively maneuver to get the F-16 in its sights.
I would be more happy to hear that German Eurofighter pilots managed to keep up with thrust vectoring Su-35. All aviation enthusiast know that F35 is slow (not about super cruise) and not agile because it's just built different.
People think the f35 is not a good dogfighter when it beats the f16 20:1 at red flag but, once another country beats a american fighter jet they go wild, the thing about theses fights is that the f35 was most likely fully fueled while the Eurofighter was mostly half of it's fuel, also the f35 most likely have thoses pods that makes the rcs a lot bigger so the eurofighter can detect it. Overall not every fighter jet will win in a dogfight as what makes it the best dogfighter is the consistency and learning from it's limits and able to perfect it, as also the pilots makes a difference, as a well trained f16 pilot will mop the floor with a rookie f16 pilot.
comparing apples and oranges. The F-35 was designed to penetrate heavily defended aeras protected by modern IADS. The Typhoon (and the F-22 as well as the Rafale) was primarily designed to be a air superiority fighter with outstanding dogfight capabilities to fight soviet bomber formations and their escorts. The multi-role for the typhoon came later in developement and was not initially planned. So no wonder this thing is a hell of an opponent in a dogfight.
Not a real scenario to get two planes merge without their sensors on, otherwise they would know exactly which adversary they would meet(by signal analyzing) and avoid that, so they would use long range radar guided missiles and avoided a merge at all. So a decision would be range of the radars(or even silently using target data from Awacs) and range of the missiles, and of course getting the best position for a missile release.
Don't forget, the EF has with CAPTOR and Meteor also excellent BVR-Capabilities. But only if the F-35 is trackable. The Eurofighter is a defensive approach, turning everything entering it's airspace into toast with help from additional air surveillance.
When Finland was buying its next generation fighters, Eurofighter (and other 4-4.5 G fighters) did not even reach the "minimum viable score". Only F35 did. Don't know exactly what it means but I would guess it means the ability to operate in a contested airspace, like around S400 systems.
that and raw airframe performance which obviously means twin engine delta canard will beat stealth single engine that has to sacrifice performance for its special features every single time just like that F-35 would absolutely crush the Typhoon in BVR these training scenarios are ON PURPOSE stacked against one side to give pilots perspective on weaknesses of theyr platform which helps them to AVOID entering such scenario whenever possible.
Wow looks like a lot of people understood when he said like 5 times that the f35 has an Advantage beyond visual range. You guys comment before watching the video or what?
You have to sacrifice aerodynamics for stealth. It's amazing that F22 is as good as it is in dogfighting. No stealth fighter has ever been in a dogfight, so it's understandable that it is not a priority.
The F35 would fall short in a dogfight against many older models, that isn't what it's designed for. Now put a Typhoon against an F22 and see what happens.
Eurofighter has been updated several times, especially the long-range radar electronic, which has evolved and should be on par with the F-35, both of which are the latest charges. Question is only whether the radar can find the F-35 right due to its stealth characteristics before the F35 detects the Eurofighter.
Some people say that Germany wouldn't be able to hold their own weight against Russia. But the Typhoon alone means that the Russian airforce has no business anywhere near German borders, at least in a war time scenario.
An F-35 pilot that could see the opponent with his eyes has already lost his jets advantage…
Still can happen, bad luck or anything so they need to train always for dogfights.
Theoretically yes. But Eurofighter wasnt built stealth on purpose since no enemy has stealth so far. F22 is a waste of money and retired soon. It was simply not necessary.
@@cool9282 F-22 is being recommissioned with the latest upgrade suite, and will begin production along with the NGAD system, which will fly in co-op with the newer F-22 and F-35s.
US always overbuilds and loves paying 35 bucks for a Ti screw.
F-22 was super necessary, without it we would be 10+ years behind the aviation game. It gave us the B-21 and a slew of other high tech advancements that started with the F-22.
Along with the projection of force as a deterrent, it was well worth it.
US still needs free healthcare though : (
@@Optikification never said they should not train…
@@fd35g3 I dont think it was that worth. They still could have done research and still have the same tech without building the plane. Anyway there never will be a full stealth fleet. US is planning a mix between stealth and normal jets, since stealth is not always necessary and too expensive. For example air patrol and control missions.
the German approach to have both, one for sneaky strike operations, the other one for mighty air superiority, seems to be smart.
The f35 in Germany only serves as a sneak/electronic warfare platform in a secondary role. Its primary role is as the contractual nuke carrier, as typhoon is not certified for American nukes, and certification would necessitate giving all blueprints to the united states, which might leak to their industy.
Britain has exactly the same set up.
Exactly! Amazing to me that people piss and moan that the F35 is not all that good as a fighter - that's not its primary role!
@@gh8447 it is a multirole aircraft - it has no primary role. Multi can never be primary because it often lacks the depth and focus required for primary roles. Primary activities or approaches are typically driven by a single, clear objective, whereas multi approaches juggle multiple objectives, diluting their ability to focus on one thing effectively. In essence, multi is more about balancing or combining several aspects, while primary needs concentrated effort to achieve a singular goal.
Same big-little strategy for India. The Tejas as a low RCS BVR and close combat dogfighter fighter for low level and sneaky approach, and the Super Sukhoi for long range radar (400km) target detection and AWACS and refueling tanker destruction, and for feeding off targets to Tejas.
all of which means that together, NATO has unrivalled, full spectrum air capability.
The British has both aircraft - giving it full spectrum air capability.
@@ruzziasht349Germany does too, and the US has F-22s and F-35s. The F-22 is the best air superiority fighter on earth, with the Typhoon coming in at second place. However, there are other very capable platforms like the Rafale. Admittedly Russia’s SU-35S and SU-30SM are also very, very good air superiority platforms even though they are inferior to state of the art Western aircraft.
The most important aspect is the missile though. Here America lacks behind. The British, the Germans and some other nations use the Meteor BVR missile and IRIS-T for threats within visual range. Both are essentially the most capable missiles in their class. America still relies on the AIM-120 as its BVR missile because the AIM-260 is still in development. Current gen AIM-120 are very capable, but they’re not as good as the Meteor and probably not as good as Russian R-37M or Chinese PL-15 missiles.
America recently introduced the AIM-174B which is an interim solution but it’s extremely good and definitely one of the best BVR missiles out there, however it is a little too big to replace the AIM-120. I’m very curious for the AIM-260.
@@FacitOmniaVoluntas. Russia has no air superiority in Ukraine, So we'll count them out shall we? HAHA only kidding! I like the Rafale too.
Indeed . Fat Amy on it s own is a sitting duck as soon the fight goes in visual range ... but it is an enabler for other platforms (Eurofighter , F-16, F-18, F-15EX , Gripen, ...)
... and that's the most important point.
Sometimes Europes European made fighters are underestimated . There are three fine aircraft produced in Europe ..................Eurofighter Typhoon , Dassault Rafale and Saab Jas 39 Gripen .
Exactly! What about the SAAB JAS39?
I totally agree with you.
@@thegreeneyejGripen is made for defending large land areas using many improvised landing strips and mobile maintenance and fueling. Finland is currently using F18s same way. We have 63 planes and at least 64 runways for them. We ordered 64 F35s, and they are going to have similar role. USAF planes are now training that in Finland, landing on small roads in middle of nowhere. Gripen is not stealth, but it has electronic warfare systems for survivability. I think it would have been a good choice for Finland also. It's purpose built for areal defence bit guerilla style warfare for larger enemy.
Gripens would be good for Ukraine, short takeoff, quick, maintainable, can use nearly any straight road, small to hide. F16 has air intake unde fuselage, it's not good for dirty roads.
@@jounisaari9471 The Typhoon has the air intake the same place as the F-16!
Fun fact: gripen is combat tested vs su 27, more specifically chinese su 27. Thailand airforce did a combat exercise vs the chinese airforce where the gripen scored 41 kills and 9 losses in bvr, only losing out in close range dogfighting.
Not surprising, given the scenario, but a useful example to point to when training F35 pilots: this is why you don't dogfight unless there is no other choice.
It's not just the F35, all pilots are discouraged from performing a merge including F22 pilots. Contrary to popular belief there is no need for a gun in aerial combat. There hasn't been a guns kill against a high performance jet since Vietnam.
@@dexterplameras3249 True, but that can always change whenever a war starts, and who knows when that will be.
@@KellyBrownlee Well it's going to be a loss for the US if Navy pilots have to resort to guns because neither the F35B or C models have an internal cannon. The external cannon is only installed for interdiction or CAS missions.
Well, the F-35 is boxed with restrictions and limitations in the senario. Is not a true dogfight.
@@dexterplameras3249 There hasn't exactly been many fighter jets engaging other fighter jets since than either.
Id argue the Typhoon is 4.5 gen. Its extremely advanced avionics really puts it up there.
Correct. The Typhoon _does have_ stealth capabilities, just not as advanced ones as the F-22 or the F-35 (note: these capabilities come at a price) and its avionics have been kept up-to-date, so 4.5 gen really.
@@LEJapproach It's also supercruise capable, which is pretty neat for a fighter jet.
@@LEJapproach The F/A 18 superhornet and typhoon are the best 4.5 fighter jet there is
Not stealth though is it - that's the key
@@bobbastian760 not as designed for stealth as the 5th gens, but still stealthier than what was before.
F35 is not meant to be a dogfighter.
Exactly the f22 suppose to be the dog fighter
F=35 is a multirole fighter, just like the Typhoon
The F-35 is meant to be everything needed by a variety of users with wildly differing requirements and as a consequence it does not excel at any of it. That is especially the case from the moment that whatever ordinance the F-35 needs to complete its mission does not fit into the internal weapons bays. The Germans call that 'nullachtfünfzehn', which is something that is adequate but not an iota more than that.
@@luchikapone142 No, wrong again. Read up on 5th aircraft champ.
@@sigis72 Wrong. The multi-roles have dramatically changed.
I am a pilot but most certainly not a veteran pilot with hundreds of hours in a supersonic jet fighter, so I am quite happy to accept the word of the two real pilots who were actually there at the time.
Not surprising, the Typhoon is a fencing sword, the F35 is a sniper. Different roles.
typon is jsut as much a sniper ...f35 has the assasin perk thats the only difference....you could argue typhon is even more of a sniper becasue of the MUCH more powerful radar on board......~260-300km vs 450-520km top range....giving it (on its own) far superiror guidance capability...........sniper without gullysuit? or beginner gully suit becasue the typhon has 2% radar signature of the coldwar eara mic so it is stealthy its just not the focus :D .....
in reality this doesnt matter the f35 is never used as a standalone thingy.....its totaly pointless to use it like that, you use it as a delivery system....its more a UPS than a sniper if you want to be mean ....have soemthign else track the target you are just delivering a payload to the gardenfence which does come into the house all by it self no need to stay around :P
The F-35 ain’t a sniper, it’s a damn railgun aimed by 8 satellites
@tangohotel2599 F35 and typhoon have demonstratred full datalink cabability back in 2017 aka they both have access to the full array of "extra" stuff around if they need it :P
google: "data link f35 typhon RAF"
That is not a surprise. The Typhoon would whoop an f35 every day of the week in a dog fight. The point is the F35 shouldnt be getting in dogfights and firing before the opposition knows its there. The Typhoon is a beast.
The Eurofighter was designed to win a knife fight in a phone booth.
The "Microsoft Flight Simulator 1995" qualification with sunglasses and "Top Gun" vibes made me laugh out loud! Great!🤣🤣🤣
You don't bring an F35 to a Eurofight
F35 is not meant to do dogfight, ever.
There are no more dogfights. Are you living in the 1960’s ?
lol some of you are clueless F35 will fire it's missiles before a Eurofighter even see it, dogfights are for Top Gun fan girls as do not exist anymore. F35 uses AWACS and even naval assets to see targets and fire long before visual range.
Then you got Australia F35 that will use Australia MQ28 Ghost bat world most advanced AI combat drone as a loyal wingman, Ghost bat has AI drone swarm capabilities and Australia will use these to be sent ahead of F35 or any of Australia manned platforms to absorb enemy fire letting the manned platform perform more critical missions.
So your Eurofighters be busy dogfighting drones and be shot out of the sky by a F35 still not even in visual or radar range.. Europe so far behind it is hilarious....
@@nedkelly9688should we tell him that Europe has the exact same modernisation programms going on?
The problem with the F35 is that radar systems these days are getting better at an alarming pace. Large L band radars were already capable of detecting dedicated stealth aircraft at ranges over 100 miles, and with Radar systems getting more advanced it's only a matter of time until plane based radar systems can do the same - so it's basically only about getting a solid lock and building weapon systems that can actually hold said lock in their terminal phase. The 1st problem goes hand in hand with the upgrades of radar systems - several modern radar systems have already been confirmed to be able to provide a solid lock at 40 - 50km of range whilst IRST systems like the PIRATE can provide can provide a lock at 80 - 100km on a F22 depending on the relative flightpath (gotta look that up again but iikr they tested that one during a blue flag exercise in Alaska). Now of course that still gives the Stealth aircraft certain advantages over their opponent, but for how long will those advantages last? Was the NGAD programm really scrapped because of budgetary overruns (which was a thing with basically every big aircraft development programm) or did it invest so heavily into stealth that the USAF would find it to be already obsolete once it would go into serial production?
Instead they're now heavily investing in their F22 fleet, retrofitting them with modern avionics, which could be indicate a change in doctrine since the F22 is actually also a capable fighter aircraft without any stealth advantages. But at the end these are just some theories so we gotta see how it turns out. But one fact is clear: building aircraft purely around their stealth ability is no future proof concept.
@@nedkelly9688You do know that the Eurofighter carries long range air to air missiles too?
Yepp ...not the first time ! It happens even with the F22 ... Years ago at Goose bay ? Red Flag competition ... Eurofighter-Pilot-Comment then: "A kind of turkey-shooting"....
BUT in this cases it was mostly dogfight scenarios.
And in this respect the Eurofighter is clearly superior.
What do we learn from this?
Both types of aircraft have their specific strengths and roles in air combat.
If the two fighters rise together and everyone plays their role and supports each other, an opponent probably has little chance of winning.
So keep practicing together!!!
Euro figure only won because the FA22 had drop tanks. When the 22 didn’t have drop tanks it smoked the euro fighter.
@@anthonyk423 yea, while i'd argue there's probably a bit more to it than just the drop tank situation (pilot training etc), it was only a "turkey shoot" because of the added drag that came from these bags. And to be fair i've rarely seen videos / pictures of Raptors rocking bags, i think it's more or less a pure ferry setup and not meant for an actual deployment situation (and even if it was, in an actual deployment they would've been dropped anyways, IF it even came to the merge).
I think the whole "turkey shoot" thing was blown way out of proportion, especially over here in Germany.. Typhoon's still a beast though, no doubt about that.
@@anthonyk423 The F-22 lost without drop tanks against the Rafale, wich is very similar to the typhoon in terms of agility and dogfight capabilities. The french publiced a HUD video to proove it, after the americans claimed the F-22 was unbeaten during that exercise.
@ ok so if that’s true then where is the video. Also the FA22 scored a lot of wins against Rafale which yall just seem to ignore and try to focus on this one win that you got where the rafale had the advantage. I’d bet the F15ex could beat the rafale and typhoon. The
@@anthonyk423 th-cam.com/video/ioTTnjxNc7o/w-d-xo.html
And where exactly are those videos of the F-22 beating the Rafale so many times? You seem to know very little about fighter jets. The F-15EX is a modernized version of the F-15E Strike Eagle, wich is a fat pig fighter bomber not capable of proper dogfights. It cannot compete with the Typhoon or the Rafale in a dogfight. Educate yourself instead of spreading overpatriotic americanism. That the americans claimed the F-22 was unbeaten and the french then publiced a video to proove the americans to lie, is very telling.
It is nice when we see that our friends have very good technology ❤
It is nice that you see us as friends, what we are. But your future Gov seems to see us as an Opponent. 😞My time with US Air Force members at a German air base was a very nice and an unforgettable experience. It was a nice frindship, that is 30 years ago but never forgotten.
@@stefang.2937 I think you misunderstand the future government of the US. While yes, they will look more inwards this term, you seem to underestimate the stability that will bring inside their country and therefore in the world. Whether you like it or not the US is extremely important for world stability and , sometimes ironically, world peace. You would want them to be as stable as possible. Keep in mind that the coming president was the only one even entertaining the idea of peace in the east, unlike the current administration.
Also us Europeans need to get our shit together, it is time to get off our lazy, cheap asses and finally put our foot down.
A lot of European countries use both to complement one another
The F-35 brings air-to-ground radar, passive sensors and data processing capabilities, the Eurofighters are the muscle, doing the heavy lifting.
@@RichelieuUnlimitedTyphoons do all that too, although DAS adds extra capability. Their only failing is their RCS.
@@glennridsdale577 Aye, not to the same degree, but a Typhoon is quite decent on its own. As for RCS, 0.05-0.2m^2 depending on loadout isn’t that bad.
@@RichelieuUnlimited lol F35 brings stealth and fires it's missiles hundreds of kilometres away before ever being seen and show you know nothing. if has to get in a dogfight then it failed from beginning.
All Australian F35 will have MQ28 Ghost bat mosr advanced AI combat drone as loyal wingman so the Eurofighter will be blown up while trying to shoot down these drones by the F35 pilot...
Which seems to be quite reasonable after that demonstration.
Okay so as i understand it, this is the third time Luftwaffe Eurofighters have beaten USAF F-35s. The first time was in Alaska in 2012 or so (the famous "raptor salad" episode). Second time was around 2019, when some USAF F-35s visited a German air base and challenged their hosts to some impromptu and unplanned dogfights (the winning German pilot, whose identity was revealed, then jokingly told journalists that he is an experienced pilot with a few tricks up his sleeve) and now this.
There is no doughty that it has happened more than 3 times, but it's not always reported every time.
To be honest, I think the point of exercises like this often negates the results of "dogfight" that every media outlet likes to use in the headline. You don't run exercises with it's huge costs to put your fighters in the best situations and then beat down on other disadvantaged foes. They exercise is to put your pilots in a difficult situation and see if they can figure it out, or to teach future pilots how to mitigate a disadvantage. A pair, 4 ship, squadron of F-35s that enters into enemy territory against an equivalent force using 4++ gen fighters will come in the engagement with a datalink between the fighters and AWACs, seeing the plain as day huge radar returns of the 4++ jet. The F-35s will then turn into the enemy AWACs to take advantage of their frontal radar cross section, fly towards the AWAC or 4++ jet, and then fly to the optimal range to launch missiles with high probability of kill and minimal chance that the enemy AWACs or 4++ fighter's radar can provide a radar track with high Pk on the F-35. It's literally a physics thing, stealth minimizes detection and the ability to track once found. The engagements will be in the tens of miles range and no dogfighting necessary. I mean, even today, in contested air space and integrated air defense like in Ukraine, what are the number of dogfights you've heard about? Mock battles are to fight from a disadvantage to learn and experience things, the US already has the biggest air force in the world, it doesn't need to punch down to learn anything.
And?
@@georgelee4308 4++ don‘t have a huge radar return, they’re considered _semi-stealth_. The F-35 would be able to spot them at ~120km, but by the time it had reasonable launch parameters, it would be spotted itself.
lil girl child go back to watching topgun, F35 is not a dogfighter at all and it is built to hit enemy way beyond visual range before even detected by any radar. these war games are just for fun and funny part is USA is gathering intel on how others fight, you showed all your cards and they did not. is hilarious
Be hilarious when a fully AI drone takes out your so called German pilot with few tricks up his sleeve...
Sabine Schmitz RIP, from Germany was the greatest driver around the ring faster than most people even when driving a transit van, absolutely brilliant driver and very sadly missed. 🌹
For all saying that the f35 is not a dogfighter, yes this is true but even at a range of 60km the pirate infrared system of the eurofighter can accurately track targets and create lock ons. So if the f35 gets this close without getting the kill, the stealth capabilities are diminished.
the PIRATE IR range is even greater. estimates are up to 190km, depending on the target type
Worth mentioning that the F35 is never going to fight a Typhoon for real, the Typhoon is better than what China or Russia has so if F35 pilots train with the Typhoon they'll have no issues against any eastern planes
@@mrcaboosevg6089 :) somebody gets it
Finally, it's good to know that Germany will have both aircraft in the near future. Appears like both together could be an unbeatable package...
I know I'm getting old but I'm pretty sure the Typhoon can take out targets well beyond visual range . Having work on RAF Phantom's in the 70s they could as well, it was their main air defence role not dog fighting, then the F3 Tornado received criticism for not being a dog fighter, it was never meant to be it's job was to shoot down enemy aircraft before they came close (beyond visual range), a job it was very capable of.
The arm chair experts need to understand the aircraft they are talking about before coming out with some of the comments that they do, and though an aircraft engineer in the RAF for over thirty years I wouldn't call myself an expert but someone who has a reasonable understanding of the role of some combat aircraft. Well done to the Eurofighter now let's give some to Ukraine.
Proudly American but happy to see that it wasn't a cake walk for our fighters/pilots. Being the "king of the hill" (per se) as we are, we really need to be tested and pushed out of any complacency. I'd 'love' to as true a test as possible between out other military assists (ships, tanks, etc) and proxy threats. I remember hearing .. some time back.. that a Swedish sub scored a "hit" against one of our military vessels. Great to know we are not invincible and that we need to always up the game. Slava Ukraiini... 'Slava' US/NATO.
Hmm.. it was multiple hits.. repeatedly, while it was protected by a carrier group..🧐
@@leifiseland1218 Yeah... that is sounding about right. Lesson for us (USA).. but for all really. Thanks for the word!
That’s a very intelligent way of thinking!
I only know of a German sub having sneaked into an US carrier group which made some fotos through the periscope. Some minutes later the fotos were emailed to the carrier with the title "boom".
Happens a lot USA pilots even say Australian pilots are just as good as them.
Australian subs have sunk over 5 US destroyers and other surface ships, have gone hit for hit equally against US Virginia class subs is even a youtube documentary of a Australian sub in a war game within range of sinking a US destroyer. had 4 Destroyers it had to get passed undetected to do it. USA even cheated by keeping active sonar on when were supposed to turn it off so the Aus sub could sneak away then try sneak back in to range.
Oh and RIMPAC 2000 Australian sub snuck passed USS Ronald Reagan escort fleet and took pics close enough to fire torpedoes also.
We did fly against the F22 in Abu Dhabi a couple of years ago... we did beat them in Dogfight every time... we always did loose at range because we couldnt pick em up... at last we couldnt pick em up back then.
Correct. Even the F-22 falls prey to the Typhoon in close air combat.
@@ab-te8kv you might want to look a little closer into simulated merged engagements against the F-22, they literally always start with the F-22 defensive, in almost every single engagement, BVR or merged where the F-22 is allowed to start in a neutral position it wins.
@@KHETTIUS i dont think so...
I work on the Eurofighter, and its my experience of that specific 3week exercise at Abu Dhabi. Do you work on the F22 or are a Pilot of that fighter and talk of experience, or is it just your opinion because you did read something on the internet?
That beeing said, its very very unlikely a F22 has to go into a Dogfight at all.
@@aasimarGER I have family members who are in the RAF, and have direct experience in exercises with the F-22. The US has never demonstrated the full capability of the F-22, even in NATO/joint exercises for obvious reasons.
Isn’t the F35 the one, whose „handbook of defects“ is 840 pages long?
The Hensold passive radar can detect F35s through the "hole" they produce in the electromagnetic clutter ... not sure whether it can be deployed on a Eurofighter, but the Hensold technology seems to be sensitive enough to make conventional stealth sort of obsolete ...
Curious to see where the entire field is moving to ... and whether the West will stay ahead. This deems more necessary than ever ...
Hensold radar is massive and is made up of two parts and thus can't be loaded into a fighter jet. It also can possibly detect the F-35 but can't be used to guide missiles for a kill. And besides if it was mounted on a fighter jet, the F-35 can detect it first and demolish it from 100 miles away.
@@winblard5154 actually its not that big and the radar systems in jets are not much smaller. The entire nose of the jets are filled with the radar system. in comprehension it could even be smaller but the comparission is quite flawed because the geometry is totally different because of obvious reasons
@@winblard5154 1.The eurofighters advanced sensor suite and ecm would easily deal with any incoming 2. the f35 cna be radar locked from a eurofighter in below 70km and even further with ir lock
@ the F-35 radar can lock into the Eurofighters “huge”radar return from 150 km away. F-35 can therefore see first and kill first. No matter how you look at it, the technology in the F-35 surpasses that of the Eurofighter which is the reason why the European air forces who have Eurofighters on their fleet have decided to add the F-35 to their fleet.
@@winblard5154 @winblard5154 1.see first and shoot first=/ kill first 2. the sensor suite and radar on the eurofighter ar far ahead of the f35s 3. the only reason germany is getting f35s is because the eurofighter isnt allowed to carry american nukes
Where can I see the original interview?
That’s like telling a sniper and an infantry man to have a western style duel. F-35 isn’t supposed to be a dogfighter
Telling a sniper and an infantry man to have a duel with flintlocks that they'd probably never have to use in real combat.
They train them to do it because it could happen. It is very unlikely, but always better be safe than sorry.
@@ZachSawyer2077 Good point actually
We don't know what were the exact engagement parameters. For example, was the F35 carrying aim9x or latest aim120 missiles, with over the shoulder launch capabilities? Was it only a gun fight?
If a F35 gets anywhere near a dogfight it would defeat the point of stealth
It's stealth doesn't work especially overseas where old radar systems are in use they light right up on radar. Stealth on paper to justify the cost, but doesn't actually work, and the thing is so damn slow and very limited range
What should worry the US even more: German Radar system can look right through the stealth abilities of every stealth plane. They were able to do this even some 20 years ago. How I know? A now deceased buddy from university did develop the radar systems. I am more of a software guy while he was a true hardware guru but still we both had the same electrical science courses and I have a rough idea how he did it from a conversation we had back in university...
@@trevorsloan2047 how to tell you have no clue about radar without telling me
Where can i find the original video he is talking about?
Hey guess what we are on the same side!
Link to the original pilot interviews please
These exercises are meant for the F-35 and F-22 to lose by tying one hand behind their backs so both pilots can learn. Normally, the F-35 would attack the other aircraft before they even knew where it was.
1. how exactly is a hand tied 2. every system on the ef is superior so it would probably even win in a bvr fight
These exercises are meant to prepare the pilots for everything, even for highly unlikely scenarios like dogfights.
@@ZachSawyer2077 and…
@@tonyman905 And...what? And so that's why they do them. I was mainly responding to the other comment. It's not like they make them so that someone has to "purposely lose" or "have their hands tied". They make them a certain way because war isn't fair and, sometimes, you can find yourself in a sh*tty situation, even if you were supposed to have an advantage over your enemy.
@@tonyman905 1. gun only fight means F-35 cant use its avionics to negate the performance gap, let it use its LOAL, HMS and missiles and it wins even in close range fight
2. no system on Typhoon is more advanced than ones used on F-35 because they BOTH use co-developed technology, if anything as F-35 is getting upgrades and Typhoons are slowly nearing theyr end of service the F-35 should have more modern variant of those systems than whatever version is currently in use on Typhoons
and no Typhoon would stand no chance in BVR, its radar wont be able to achieve weapon lock before entering the no escape zone of the F-35 ... when theyr radars are basically on par with each other but one has 80 times smaller RCS its plainly obvious which one of them will have first shoot capability against each other ... which means F-35 can fly high severely increasing its AMRAAMs range and lethality while Tyhoon would be forced to fly low and on defensive only allow small windows of opportunity to engage while F-35 would be able to hardlock the Typhoon and give its missiles huge advantage in tracking capability way above the capability of the missile seeker itself
To be fair the F35 is also built by BA Systems. I drive past the Salisbury one everyday and they have one parked at the main entrance. I work next to the Wharton branch and see them everyday testing them.
If an f35 is in a dogfight, the pilot screwed up badly.
If the f35 is in a dog fight in the real world, the opps have been mostly eliminated and the merging aircraft are actually dog fighting several f35’s or f35/f22’s.
Yes, but even as unlikely as this scenario is , you have to train for it. and this can happen faster than you think, especially behind enemy lines.
Not really. The F-35's advanced stealth capabilities reduce the probability to get into such a situation, but it's still possible in the real world.
Best comment
No, not really. Its a mistake to assume that plane is invisible, period. It will show up on RADAR, even on not the most modern ones. The issue is understanding what it is you see and making the right decisions to engage it, if necessary by closing the gap. The F-35 is a multi-role plane, so it will get over heavily defended areas. To get there, they will try to avoid as much ground based RADAR sites as they can, but eventually the soup will get too thick and thats when the plane becomes vulnerable to a degree to an enemy that not only expects it to be there but also has the means to engage it right there close up and personal with air assets. Also, stealth does nothing to hide your heat signature. Which is also a reason for why soviet era planes all come with an extensive IR detection sensor array.
When is DCS going to have the Eurofighter?
It's pretty redundant to say "European-made Eurofighter". The jet would not be called Eurofighter if it had been produced on any other continent.
Uhm, what about the moon Europa?
@@akyhne 😂😂😂
Dogfights are very rare, people still watch too often TopGun from 1986
Happens all the time,thats why its called an excersise
Once you're in a dogfight you've already lost.
"APPLE BEATS ORANGE IN CRISPINESS"
What a luck that we are alies and though both advantages are to our common advantage, and hopefully that will remain that way so that never ever any German nor American Pilot have to engage against each other (without afterwards laughing together and having learned from each other), in friendship from Germany, you're doing a great job 👌
Unsure why anyone would be shocked. Nobody should be.
2:22 these kind of mock up engagements happen all the times in Italy since 2022 this is certainly NOT the "First engagement of that kind in Europe"
It is only natural that an Eurofighter pilot win in a visual engagement because of how the two planes perform in a dogfight and because of the big IR sensor on the EF2000 nose.
German EF Do not have the pirate IR System... They reky on active Radar or outside sources.
Calling the Eurofighter a fourth gen isn’t really accurate, as it outclasses something like a F-15, F-16 or any Flanker variant by a substantial margin. If _full_ stealth wasn’t a requirement, it would be fifth gen, and if you consider something like a Su-57 a fifth gen, then Eurofighter, Rafale and Super Hornet are also fifth gens, as they‘re just as stealthy. That’s why the terms 4++ and 4.5 are used. In terms of avionics, aerodynamics, kinematics and propulsion they’re at least fifth gen, especially the Eurofighter.
In BVR a F-35‘s best bet against a Eurofighter is to run away, as it has insufficient ammunition to deplete the Eurofighter’s countermeasures (2x towed decoy, 2x IRIS-T + chaff, ECM…) and would have to get too close to use them anyway and once the Eurofighter has spotted the F-35, it’s over for the F-35 as it cannot counter and evade all of the Eurofighter’s Meteors.
@@RichelieuUnlimited
You should have watched the video. The German pilot said that in real life the F35 would have killed him before he knew it was there. He didn't mention anything about overwhelming countermeasures. He just said that he would have been deleated.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225That means he was either humble or is underestimating the capabilities of his jet. He should be able to track the F-35 at 40km using the Eurofighter’s Captor-M, the ECRS Mk0 (Captor-E) of later variants should do so at 59km and the upcoming ECRS Mk1 and Mk2 likely at even greater ranges due to their increased frequency range. That’s all outside the AMRAAMs NEZ. If Meteor for F-35 ever comes, it could change things slightly, but still not something that would be recommended.
It is however a theoretical discussion, as it’s highly unlikely they’ll every face off against each other in real combat.
@@RichelieuUnlimited
The AIM-120D-3 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) has a range of over 180 kilometers (112 miles).
Also, the AIM 260 will be in airplanes soon.
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 At optimal launch parameters (which a F-35 cannot achieve) ^against a compliant target. The Meteor, which has a propulsion system that is *three times* as efficient overall as a conventional solid rocket, has at the same overall size as an AMRAAM only an NEZ of ~60km. It is *physically impossible* for either an AMRAAM or the upcoming AIM-260 to come even remotely close to that level of performance.
What about the 22?
The Eurofighter also beat the F22 in a dogfight. These modern stealth fighters might be good at long range engagements, killing an enemy fighter before they are even detected, but in a dogfight they seem to be pretty useless.
Eurofighter also flies with BVRAAM.
These are scripted scenarios and limits what the F-35 and the F-22 can actually do. Just like the article that an F-15 did well against an F-22 in a dogfight, then the USAF did the same scenario with 4 F-15 vs 1 F-22 without restrictions, the 4-F-15 were destroyed in less than 5 minutes. The F-35 radar will overwhelm the Eurofighter radar and targeting system, still is told not to employ the tactic. The fact is, you can't take most of these scripted scenarios seriously. The F-22 will destroy any fighterjet without effort in real combat.
@@MKO-USAhe was talking about a dogfight... also do you really think jamming a state of the art radar system is that easy?
Also I wanna remind you that the US had exactly the same mindset at the beginning of WW2 "yeah those japanese got nothing against our airforce" - turns out their Zero outperformed any US navy plane at basically every metric whilst all the P40 could do was running away.
Chinese fighters aren't that far off compared to US ones - and their ability to detect stealth is getting better by the day...
@@bluefox9436 The top 3 US fighter in the pacific without a question beat down the Japanese Zeros: The F6F Hellcat’s kill to loss ratio was about 19 to 1. the P-38 Lighting achieved 3785 total kills with a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and the F4U Corsair achieved 1400 total kills with 1300 fighters and 300 bombers with only 141 lost in combat with a 9.9 to 1 kill ratio. If you add the FG-1D Corsair to the mix the kill ratio increases to 11 to 1.
Without a question your knowledge of WWII is limited...very limited.
WWII. The top 3 US fighter in the pacific without a question beat down the Japanese Zeros:
The F6F Hellcat’s kill to loss ratio was about 19 to 1.
The P-38 Lighting achieved 3785 total kills with a 7 to 1 kill ratio.
And the F4U Corsair achieved 1400 total kills with 1300 fighters and 300 bombers with only 141 lost in combat with a 9.9 to 1 kill ratio. If you add the FG-1D Corsair to the mix the kill ratio increases to 11 to 1.
Let me address Chinese fighter. LMFAO! Every Chinese stealth today use underpower 4th generation engines. In fact, China started testing its new 5th gen engines two months ago. China's radars in its fighters are a copy of Russia's radars but the export version, not even the Russian version equipped in its fighter jets. China lags behind in Stealth coating and datalink networking and new US missiles have far longer range than Chinese missiles.
Let me address Chinas ability to detect stealth...LOL, even data leaked about Russia's S-400 put the distance that can detect an F-35 for locking at 20 miles from the radar location...I doubt China can do better than that when China's is pushing to get the S-400 as its main air defense batteries.
Evidently your knowledge is trash and anyone with the basics just laugh at your comment.
@@bluefox9436 Addressing the dog fighting...these are controlled scenarios that place the fighter jets in proximity and limit what the F-35 can do. Not to be considered seriously as it does not reflect a real combat situation.
Very informative video. Exciting stuff. Magnificient aircrafts.
The F-35 is more or less a cyberwarfare with striker and bomber perks, not meant for 1v1 fights, even the F-22 lost against the Grippin once,
These are scripted scenarios and limits what the F-35 and the F-22 can actually do. Just like the article that an F-15 did well against an F-22 in a dogfight, then the USAF did the same scenario with 4 F-15 vs 1 F-22 without restrictions, the 4-F-15 were destroyed in less than 5 minutes. The F-35 radar will overwhelm the Eurofighter radar and targeting system, still is told not to employ the tactic. The fact is, you can't take most of these scripted scenarios seriously. The F-22 will blow any fighter jet in the world without any effort in real combat. The F-35 will surprise everyone if the scenarios let them use all its abilities.
@@MKO-USA then why not use live ammo,
@@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723 What a stupid comment, then why not use missiles and long range tactics? Stupid is what stupid says. Can't handle the fact that these "scenarios" are limited in scope and combat capabilities? LMAO!
@@MKO-USA hard copium is what i read here....a single f35 will do jackshit as its not designed to be on its own what so ever. ....withotu additional targeting support the f35 wont see what its supposed to shot at either.....making the up close and personal much mroe likely.....and 160km in its going to be IR tracked doest matter how well its radar stealth is....and the f22s have one major problem their carry is realy badly desinged to if they get intercepted on a mission they can abort the mission and drop what ever payload and tanks they carry on the spot to survive or get shot down......they are great if used as interceptors them selfs aka DEFENCILY without any extra weight, but fall out of sky if actualy sent on a mission for anything else one of the main reasons why the cry for a multirole was so deafening......
@@proxis9980 LMAO! If you believe what you just posted you are no doubt a moron. The F-22 is an Air superiority fighter, the F-35 is a multi-role fighter designed to even take on A-10 missions. The F-35 is a suppressor as it overwhelms the other fighter systems. The Typhoon only chance is to be within visual range and still the F-35 can lock at it by just having the pilot looking at Typhoon. In a real combat situation, the Typhoon will be gone before it knows the F-35 is around. Nothing in this earth can match the F-22, period. “Copium”? LMAO, some people live in fantasy like @proxis9980 . F-35s are not designed to be on its own? LOL!
Love your work Wes . Keep it up 👌I never liked the idea of a single engine
Yes of course, the problem is that the Eurofighter is DESTROYED way before any dogfight!?!?! (that is now a stealth only game!)
This might sound stupid but why don't they have a few backwards facing missiles? 🤔
I'm tired of this type of story. So what were the rules of engagement? Was it a two aircraft dogfight only? Did they start with a BVR exchange and end up in a knife fight? Were there multiple aircraft? ... simulating a realistic combat environment? ... with AWACS on both sides? ... with stealth defeating sensors? ... did they use ECM? because all of those things matter. The deeper you get into that list the more accurately you simulate a combat environment. Just putting one Eurofighter and one F-35 into a cage and telling the pilots to dogfight doesn't really tell one very much about how these aircraft will perform in a real shooting war, not that this will stop patriotic fanboys from starting a flame war over it 🤣.
BVR doesn’t work in combat against an opponent with an advanced airforce.
In Vietnam the airspace was so saturated with airplanes friendly fire was so bad you were not aloud to engage an enemy with out visual conformation
Most of your questions are answered in the video. 🤷♂
@@LEJapproach No, they were not actually, even some of them was hinted at. Just the fact this was a guns only scenario was omitted, where at that point every single advantage the F-35 has had been removed.
@@KjetilBalstad Not just that as the fuel configuration could also be different as most of theses "fight senarios" are done by the usaf to test each other in a dogfight as it most likely the F35 was fully fueled while the eurofighter wasn't which can change a lot in thrust to weight ratio and probably the f35 had dummy missiles in it's weapons bay to also make it heavier, as I wouldn't fully count on that, but in theses senarios the usaf wants it's pilots have a very very hard time to beat it's offensive opponent since thats how they can train on that when they go back home. It's like the Uk vs us marines bs, the usa marines went up against 6 different countries of personnel and they had us air support,.
@@markuscev4581 that was before friend or foe systems
Color grading?
As much as it is true that the stealth capabilities of the F-35 give it an edge, keep one thing in mind: It can't fire at an adversary beyond visual range without switching on its own radar, which means the adversary will definitely know that something is there. The common tale of shooting down another plane without it knowing that something is even there only holds up if you also throw in other support in the ring to locate the target in the first place.
Missiles with infrared seekers are a different story, but they work on short distances only.
The F-35 is a formidable plane, but it has its limitations. And in a real conflict no one should be surprised if some get lost, as its definitely not an invincible plane.
Of course it can. They network their radars or even use data from AWACS or ground based targeting radars. The Swedish Gripen has been able to do that for decades and of course the F-35 can do the same. No need to switch on your radar, you fire silent.
@@5.56mm not to mention that the AESA radar that is onboard the F-35 is specifically designed to scan rapidly on a narrow beam on hopping fequencies to make interception or jamming difficult.
@@5.56mm and that is exactly what I said - you need to throw some support into the ring, so the firing F-35 can keep its own radar off.
@@5.56mm Yes F35 can and Australia has been using it with the Australian designed E7 Wedgetail for years and also Australia will use the Australian designed MQ28 Ghost bat most advanced ai drone in the world. Ghost bat will fly ahead of the F35 and take out enemy targets while saving the F35...
@@5.56mm F35 of Australia is also connected to all Australian surface ships and JORN OTHR radar. USA and Japan also connecting theirs to JORN through the AEGIS battle systems...
I would argue that the A model F35 would lose to an F15 on the rate fight and to an F16 on the turnfight, cus it isnt actually made for it. The B and C are even heavier and the Vtol one is actually a brick.
Not really for the C version, because in fact it's the one with the wider wingspan (the A and B have the shortest wingspan, which is a notorious problem). So it would turn better, the intrado and extrado airflow would make it better. It would roll slower, yes, but it has more lift and that's what matters here. The other biggest issue is the fact that the F-35 is girthy, so it's aero performance to begin with is less than ideal but it's mostly the fact that the vapor appears a lot sooner on the wings than other aircrafts, indicating how much the airframe's design struggles to redirect vortices to turn. It really isn't good at achieving high Angle of Attack (AoA) but the C version has more room to play with because of that bigger wingspan on a diamond wing design (a subvariant of delta wing design).
The reason that the Typhoon pilot had never seen the F-35 is that it usually kills you before you see him. 10 to 1 kill ratio in Red Flag.
In what real world scenario will a F-35 be vectored into a specific area without any other radar support, no network battle space intelligence, or any other information, and be instructed to engage in a Within Visual Range Dog Fight deliberately?
This is simply a stupid test. Maybe it was specifically designed to scare the F-35 pilots so they wouldn't be overconfident, and to buck up the allies that they have a chance.
On the other hand, Red Flag is heavily in favor of stealth fighters, since a firing solution already indicates a kill. The F-35 overall evades right that, while the EF has a big emphasis defending against incoming missiles (so after firing solution) and will (implying similar skilled pilots) likely perform a lot better in a setting when a missile is on the way with a stable lock.
In a more realistic (still 1v1, same skill) combat environment, the F-35 "only" has a finite amount of six 120´s. From the outside, hard to know, how the EF would manouver-defend the firing solutions in RF. And if/how these would effect each of their missions.
In the end, the F-35 performs a lot better in a real combat environment with additional platforms. By heavily modifying the effectivity of other platforms.
Assuming both pilots know what they are doing, the F-35 will have it's butt kicked almost every time against a Typhoon, cause that is not the role it was made for. It will be intresting to know how the Typhoon would perform against an F-22.
That has been tested by numerous EF Typhoons in several excercises during the last 10-15 years. British, German, even Italian air force, if memory serves right.
F22 was also beaten in dogfight. In long range F22 has the better setup, but it was also locked by the EF.
The New Mk.4 or the upcoming Mk.5 with the new Meteor will make it hard for the F22 and for sure for the F35
@pn1185 Yes indeed. 👍🏻
Elite Dogfighter beats elite sniper in dogfight. In other news, water is wet.
Yeh right. What were the rules of engagement?
Many planes will beat the F-35 in a dog fight.
And none of them are made in Russia or China.
@Iron Even an old Mig29 in its base configuration will beat a F35 in a dogfight....
@@psav7 Probably a P-51 as well.
@@psav7 no it wont ... only planes capable of going toe to toe in BFM with F-35A would be Rafale, Typhoon, Raptor and SU57. Any other jet 35 can beat even in guns only dogfight
... the Typhoon is the best pure-flyer I've ever seen; I've all the respect in-the-world for this economically-viable, near-perfect fighter. The Lightning-II, on-the-other-hand, is a tad-sluggish and burdened by an incredible price-tag. However, with that said... it is also... the best-damned weapon-system... mankind has ever developed.
The two planes tactically compliment one-another extremely-well as "hammer-and-anvil". Hopefully... they will never see companionship during a full-scale-conflict in such-a-manner.
Additionally, there are those in the general-public that continue to compare levels of "stealth" to the F-35. DON'T. Even if we were just measuring stealth through both "on-board" passive and active "stealth-dynamics"... the Lightning's advantage would probably still be too great. However, that's not what makes the F-35 the greatest weapon-system ever developed. It's what is not on the plane that makes it most impressive.
The "semi-autonomous war-mind" at JTFOC that it was developed to seamlessly and functionally fuse-with... is the real star-of-the-show. The massive data-stream that is flowing between aircraft and hive-mind is staggering... and is responsible for comparatively and predictively amplifying the electronics-suite on the Lightning to levels upon which we can only speculate. This is where the majority of developmental-cost was sunk; this is the fact of which the general-public is most unaware.
All said, there's a reason this plane is sold so "casually" to so-many countries outside the United States and its allied project-developmental-partners: it does not come equipped with "the recommended pilot".
Everyone knows "well almost everyone" the F-35 is not a dogfighter,
What outcome did you really expect 🙄
This "news" is something that a child would already know by just looking up the two aircrafts specifications.
In dogfights pilot skills are most important and the F-35 is not as hopelessly outclassed in this respect as you seem to suggest. In addition: have you watched the video? It's about a lot more than just who won the dogfight. Oh, and what about the F-22? It has thrust-vectoring(!), so on paper it should beat the Typhoon any time, but in reality it doesn't.
@@LEJapproach The F-35 and F-22 are not dogfighters and we're never promoted to be that "the F-22 can dogfight very well but in today's battlefield it's doesn't really happen", these aircraft are air dominance aircraft to destroy targets at range before the enemy knows they are there.
They are designed to protect groups of F-15E/F18 Super hornets and high value aircraft like the B52s.
Not to mention helicopters.
The F-35 is absolutely fantastic for detecting the enemy and transferring data to the F22s so they can intercept and destroy anything that gets remotely close, if the F-22 ever got into a situation of dogfighting something has gone spectacularly wrong.
The Eurofighter Typhoon on the other hand is designed for QRA to shoot down incoming bombers and lighter attacking aircraft at much shorter ranges, the typhoon is a dedicated multi-roll aircraft that has to be agile and fast because it can't loiter over a battlefield with stealth technology like the F-22 does, also the usa has many assets working together where countries that have the typhoon does not have this capability to the same efficiency.
I could go on and on about the differences but I won't as this would be way too long,
So in the end trying to compare these aircraft is absolutely pointless,
It's like trying to compare an ford van with a top end racing car.
In reality a group of F-22s "usually four of them" would absolutely obliterate typhoons at range before they knew what hit them.
@@davedevonlad7402 Oh! If it's that easy, could you please explain to me what the F-22 needs thrust-vectoring for in the roles you describe there?
@@LEJapproach oh my really, you need me to explain this.
Ok, do you need your ears, in reality no you don't do you, you can still see,eat,run,walk, breath ect ect.
But if you had those ears don't you think that's an advantage if you were ever put in a situation where they would be beneficial "like someone sneaking up on you"
Do you see where I am going with this,
The F-22 doesn't need thrust vectoring but it has it because if the situation arises it has an advantage that potential enemies do not,
Many military aircraft do not have thrust vectoring but it's an advantage if you ever get into that situation,
Like I said the F-22 is not a dogfighter per say it's an air dominance fighter,
Primary roll to dominate the air and getting into a dogfight is not the way to dominate the airspace over a battlefield, "look up what Fighter aircraft means"
The F-22 is an aircraft designed to kill from distance it doesn't carry a huge amount of missiles itself so it hunts in packs and no modern military will ever want a pack of four F-22s in a dogfight.
No single F-22 will ever be used in that way in war.
Also the thrust vectoring is an aid for take offs where the control services are used less.
It's not just for dogfighting but it can help if the situation arises.
This is a pointless argument.
People who keep going on about "dogfighting" think it's still WW1 or WW2 and it shows they have very little understanding of modern warfare.
Most aircraft don't want to be near enemy aircraft anyway on the battlefield, look at Ukraine today there is very little dogfighting at all, ground to air missile systems are a major threat and short ranged missiles on aircraft are mostly used for drones and helicopters not other aircraft " it's not Vietnam or the Falklands anymore"
Putting an asset like the F-22 in a dogfighting situation is completely reckless, can it do it then yes of course it can but that is not its primary goal...
@@davedevonlad7402 You don' talk sense my friend.
You say _"Many military aircraft do not have thrust vectoring but it's an advantage if you ever get into that situation"_
And I ask you: Which "situation" would that be? You can say it wasn't about dogfighting as long as you like, but the fact of the matter is: it doesn't get any more 'dogfighty' than having thrust vectoring, because it's added at a lot of extra cost in acquisition as well as in maintenance for one reason: it enables you to go post-stall, meaning you can fly controlled maneuvers where an aircraft without it simply falls out of the sky! So please stop twisting and turning. This is about dogfighting. Period!
And now back to the point. The F-22 is not some cumbersome B-52, it's an advanced, highly capable fighter aircraft and with thrust vectoring it has a clear advantage over the Typhoon that doesn't have it. So if the Typhoon wins a dogfight, it's clearly not because the F-22 wasn't designed for it. I mean, AFAIK the Typhoon didn't win each time, so does that mean if the F-22 wins it's designed for it all of a sudden? No, it means what I said from the beginning: in a dogfight pilot skills are most important and even if they constantly tell you US pilots are the best, that's simply not true. Other countries have brilliant pilots too!
And just by the way: the Eurofighter Typhoon has never been designed as a 'dogfighter' too. If it had been, why does _it_ not have thrust vectoring? As a 'dogfighter' this is like being a virtuoso pianist without ears, to stick with your example!
Excellent even-handed video. My only criticism is that it was too short. It was great to watch the pilots talk about the dogfight, and how the F35 would likely have eliminated an enemy aircraft before the enemy knew it was there. Also, bravo for your support of Ukraine and its people. I wonder what the next few days will signal, in terms of future US aid.
it wouldntve won in bvr
Not really news. The Eurofighter is an air superiority fighter first, with the ability to perform air-to-ground missions added on. The F-35 is a bomb truck first with the ability to go air-to-air if needed. In an air-to-air situation, the Eurofighter will always be favoured. It has a higher radar cross section that the F-35, but vastly better missiles, not to mention turn , climb, and speed.
Where did you get the idea that the F-35 is a “bomb truck” first? Just asking….
You should answer the question, if F-35 had Luneburg lenses removed from its airframe against EASA regulations, that make F-35 visible like every other regular aircraft, and what were the rules of engagement.
uii somebody learned what luneburg lenses are in the media reports of the ukraine war from yesterday. somebody is reading news there
@@wolflarsen1900 Most of us interested in this topic knows about these, but in this scenario they wouldn't matter as this was a WVR guns only scenario...
The F-35 isn't meant to be a dog fighter jet, try the F-15.
A Tranche 1 twin-seat training Eurofighter beat two F-15s in a simulated dogfight. The F-15 is simply outclassed in practically all metrics by the Eurofighter.
The F-15 is 4 meters longer than the Eurofighter and weights 4 tons more. Not a good candidate for dogfights. The F-18 or even F-16 would be better at dogfighting.
@dadigan5117 F-15 would be badly outmatched vs the Typhoon. The only aircraft in the world that can have a fair dogfight with a Typhoon is the F-22. Sure, the F-22 {and F-35) should win at BVR, however up close the Typhoon has a clear edge.
@@andyo8141 You forgot to mention all the current Suchoi models.
@@kilik407 only one of SUs can stand a chance against Typhoon and even then its kinda iffy as Su57 STILL hasnt got its projected engines and uses "testing phase" prototypes that are way under the spec of its "real" ones and unreliable as F
Well, i'm sure it is meant to be used in fieldservice together with dogfight jets like the F-15 EX, F-16 and maybe now together with the Eurofighter Typhoon. As far as i have heard about it from a different channel here (i think it was Thorsten Heinrich's "Militär & Geschichte") it's real capability is more like the kind of connected electronic warfare with things like transferring an already fired air-to-air missile forwarded to it by a different jet and sending it up to the final target. That would be indeed a unique feature.
As a fan of the Eurofighter I know the Eurofighter has exploded in flames before the pilot of the Eurofighter has even noticed the F-35 was in the air. 😅
And this is exactly what the Eurofighter pilot said in his interview.
Got my rating on "Chuck Yeager´s Flying School", C64, 1988
Oh, and on "Air Combat Emulator" around the same time.
Man wearing armour while riding a horse beats Typhoon trying to access taxiway...
We've still got like a zillion F-15s and F-16s and the Eurofighter is an allied countries fighters. The "F-35 beat in dogfight..." trolling is hilarious. Kind of like when they stuck giant tanks and gave the F-22 a giant radar profile, limited missile range, and said you can only dogfight like X now go engage... and it lost. Why even fly either plane if they're not gonna be used?
I get it though. Train for worst case scenario, win with massive overmatch every time.
All these poor American excuses in the comments are so pathetic!!
F35 was sold as a replacement for fighter aircraft because it can do the role of fighter. Sadly this was not accurate. Many years ago, A test pilot report detailed the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in a mock air battle against a two-seat F-16D. The F-16D-based on a design developed 40 years ago and from a production run in the mid-1990s-bested the F-35 in close-range combat maneuvers.
In the report, the F-35 pilot reported that his aircraft was in a "clean" configuration for the test, carrying nothing under its wings or in its internal weapons bays. The F-16, on the other hand, was flying with under-wing external fuel drop-tanks, which in theory would have put the aircraft at an aerodynamic disadvantage.
Apparently, it didn't. "Even with the limited F-16 target configuration, the F-35A remained at a distinct energy disadvantage for every engagement," the F-35 pilot reported. That means the F-35 constantly found itself flying slower and more sluggishly, unable to effectively maneuver to get the F-16 in its sights.
I would be more happy to hear that German Eurofighter pilots managed to keep up with thrust vectoring Su-35. All aviation enthusiast know that F35 is slow (not about super cruise) and not agile because it's just built different.
People think the f35 is not a good dogfighter when it beats the f16 20:1 at red flag but, once another country beats a american fighter jet they go wild, the thing about theses fights is that the f35 was most likely fully fueled while the Eurofighter was mostly half of it's fuel, also the f35 most likely have thoses pods that makes the rcs a lot bigger so the eurofighter can detect it. Overall not every fighter jet will win in a dogfight as what makes it the best dogfighter is the consistency and learning from it's limits and able to perfect it, as also the pilots makes a difference, as a well trained f16 pilot will mop the floor with a rookie f16 pilot.
At closer ranges a 4th gen fighter such as a Eurofighter may have the advantage against an F35 The F35 has to make compromises to factor in stealth
No surprise, if this was a realistic engagement the Typhoon would've been shot down kilometers away by the F-35 and wouldn't even know what hit him.
Only possible in a scenario. Any euro jet cant see the f35 first. So how can you dogfight if i will see you first ?
This outcome makes sense given the specific set of circumstances. Also, let no one doubt Wes's top gun cred.
comparing apples and oranges. The F-35 was designed to penetrate heavily defended aeras protected by modern IADS. The Typhoon (and the F-22 as well as the Rafale) was primarily designed to be a air superiority fighter with outstanding dogfight capabilities to fight soviet bomber formations and their escorts. The multi-role for the typhoon came later in developement and was not initially planned. So no wonder this thing is a hell of an opponent in a dogfight.
I never had any doubt about that
Not a real scenario to get two planes merge without their sensors on, otherwise they would know exactly which adversary they would meet(by signal analyzing) and avoid that, so they would use long range radar guided missiles and avoided a merge at all.
So a decision would be range of the radars(or even silently using target data from Awacs) and range of the missiles, and of course getting the best position for a missile release.
Don't forget, the EF has with CAPTOR and Meteor also excellent BVR-Capabilities.
But only if the F-35 is trackable.
The Eurofighter is a defensive approach, turning everything entering it's airspace into toast with help from additional air surveillance.
We're all acknowledging that both jets will fulfill their roles in a combat situation as best as possible and as a team🇺🇲🇪🇺
When Finland was buying its next generation fighters, Eurofighter (and other 4-4.5 G fighters) did not even reach the "minimum viable score". Only F35 did. Don't know exactly what it means but I would guess it means the ability to operate in a contested airspace, like around S400 systems.
or... you know... bribes
Dogfight is almost purely about pilot skill. Good that you mentioned that
that and raw airframe performance which obviously means twin engine delta canard will beat stealth single engine that has to sacrifice performance for its special features every single time just like that F-35 would absolutely crush the Typhoon in BVR
these training scenarios are ON PURPOSE stacked against one side to give pilots perspective on weaknesses of theyr platform which helps them to AVOID entering such scenario whenever possible.
Wow looks like a lot of people understood when he said like 5 times that the f35 has an Advantage beyond visual range. You guys comment before watching the video or what?
You have to sacrifice aerodynamics for stealth. It's amazing that F22 is as good as it is in dogfighting. No stealth fighter has ever been in a dogfight, so it's understandable that it is not a priority.
Interesting, was a German pilot who was in Typhoon?
Maverick: Its the pilot, not the plane who makes the difference! :P
When the F-4 Phantom entered service it was, like the F-35, not supposed to dogfight at close range. And oh boy, were they wrong.
Are any F-22s stationed in Germany?
The F35 would fall short in a dogfight against many older models, that isn't what it's designed for. Now put a Typhoon against an F22 and see what happens.
Eurofighter has been updated several times, especially the long-range radar electronic, which has evolved and should be on par with the F-35, both of which are the latest charges. Question is only whether the radar can find the F-35 right due to its stealth characteristics before the F35 detects the Eurofighter.
Which F35, A,B,C? Each has a different wing loading!
The Nürburgring is not in Nürnberg (Nuremberg). It’s confusing, I know, but those are two different places.
F-35: Im a lover, not a fighter. 😂😂😂
Some people say that Germany wouldn't be able to hold their own weight against Russia. But the Typhoon alone means that the Russian airforce has no business anywhere near German borders, at least in a war time scenario.
If either are in a dog fight something went seriously wrong
“U wont know who you are fighting until the merge”……😂😂😂😂