The plugin rabbit hole is real. It took me a while to realize less is more and the most import thing is getting what you're recording sounding good from the start... It can't be fixed in the mix.
Agreed. I almost went that direction. Instead of just spending money I did some research. Any reputable daw should have the tools you need to make a good mix of you know what you are doing.
So true about TH-cam being over saturated with videos about audio production. It is so hard to figure who to listen too. Bobby has been my go to for tricks and tips. Thanks Bobby!
I agree with everything you mentioned except Parallel compression. Andrew Scheps and Michael Brauer's use of parallel compression is on another level. The tracks they receive I assume are recorded very well yet they both use multiple instances to make their mixes fuller, harmonically richer. Also when done correctly will give you amuch better crest factor.
Since I've been following your teaching, I think I've improved, and the feedback I get from those who have heard my production seem to be genuine in their positive responses. Your "It's not bad or wrong, but it's not detrimental" approach has brought clarity to the congested world of "Feed the wheel" production techniques.
I see Top Down mixing as the way to go -put thought into tracking, and only make adjustments in the mix when necessary (i.e. things that you cannot bring to standard with levels, EQ, and subtle compression).
This channel is a godsend in this huge noise of overwhelming and conflicting information. As you say, the internet has tons of conflicting information and that means that your videos naturally also conflict with other information out there, but there is just something about your philosophy of keeping things simple that vibes with me a lot, as well as constantly looking backwards to the source instead of layering shit on shit. Which of your courses would you recommend for a self-proclaimed solo musician, composer, producer and mixer with no experience besides starting and stopping projects, but never finishing them? I'm trying to do hard rock and classic heavy metal, but I mostly struggle with guitar tone. I saw your vid on guitar tones and it helped me immensely, but it's not quite there yet.
Bobby with the TRUTH BOMBS today! Re: Stereo widening - you can easily make any part feel wider/narrower by creating CONTRAST with whatever came before it. For example, try making the verse guitars 75-75 and the chorus guitars 100-100. Or even a single mono verse guitar, then stereo doubled chorus guitars. I love how Bobby says automation is boring and no one wants to do it. He's spot on. Automating your panning/volume is more effective than any gimmick.
Yes, yes yes! I know as engineers we don’t always get the choice but if you are diplomatic and don’t step on the toes of whomever is producing, you can often help with arrangement ideas like these. Less is more, except when more is more but as a rule of thumb you would be doing yourself a favour to keep things lessc let’s say ‘ultra’ as a baseline!
Great video Bobby! It seems like a lot of people are unhappy with their mixes and looking for the easy fix/magic trick instead of building their skills and doing the work. Thanks!
It's actually crazy how the journey through recording/mixing etc is so similar for everyone :O I too was one who said.. "Automation" F that BUT, it really REALLY does change the game! Great tips Bobby, Keep up the good work
Well, color me relieved, because yes, many people recommend sidechain compression of kick to bass, but I could never figure out for the life of me how to do it in my basic version of Cubase. In the end, I assumed that if I apply a bit of compression only to the low end which is mostly taken by kick and bass, it would have close enough effect.
Guilty as charged 😂 On the real though,the 2 greatest rules are 1.Right at the source 2. The right balance. If you can perfect those and learn basic Eq, compression, and other basics your tracks will come out better.And after years of rabbit holing through TH-cam, it finally sank in and now things are starting to click for my music, so thank you, Bobby🤘
These were exceptionally well-curated lists. Both what to care about and what not to. I’m 27 years into my career and I use fewer tricks than I ever have, by just focusing on level and eq. It’s experience that will get you better- not magic bullet “secret” techniques.
Side chaining is pretty fun for EDM even when it's a little bit rock/metal infused, but from my experience, it only works well when you have enough space between hits of the kick drum. With most rock/metal, the kick is going too crazy and will just end up removing the bass entirely. And, even worse, unless you have the compression set to ONLY the lowest bass, your kick might be canceling out the high end of the bass as well (that isn't even competing for frequency space) which just causes a ton of problems. In that case, it's 100% better to just EQ your way to balancing it out unless you're specifically trying to achieve that "pumping" effect.
I exclusively use Soothe 2 for this now (a la Jaycen Joshua's technique) if/when I use it, specifically for the reasons you mentioned. If I'm working on a crowded metal mix in drop G or a track with heavy kicks, 808s, and a mid bass, I might reach for sidechain to get like 5-10% of the transient details back in the low end. It's a late stage mixing choice now, if necessary.
Parallel compression is for the drum bus. It's a flavor over the top, after the drums are already individually processed and mixed, and personally, if I use triggers or sample augmentation, and especially things like bass drops/percussive sample SFX, I put that on a separate bus, and it doesn't get compressed, at all, or very little, just enough to glue. It took forever for me to figure out that sometimes, less is more, and getting the recording right is more important. I used to over process already processed drum sample libraries and over compress the master, and as a result my mixes pumped harder than a Daft Punk or Infected Mushroom song - which is not a good thing; not for metal, anyway.
Automation for widening. When working on the automation for levels consider automating the panning. LCR for big sections like chorus and solos and bring it in some during verses.
thank you Bobby for helping us self produced musicians. I've learned a good bit from watching your channel. keep up the hard work! 🫶 I hope your day is off to a great start today!!! 🖤🤍🤘🤍🖤
Great vid Bobby. Agree with all your points - plugin companies do a great job marketing their plugins as magic bullets, and beginners can make their mixes sound pro if they buy the plugin. There is no substitute for the hard yards - great source tracks to begin with, learning about eq and compression, LCR panning, volume automation and techniques like Bobby demonstrates. That's the jam...not the plugin companies marketing bullshit
To be honest, it’s true for the most part, but for the most part is what you really need to focus on, there are some plugins that are actually just magic, they won’t take you from what is a volume knob? To a professional mix, but they definitely do make it easier to get there when you already know what you’re doing
I think sometimes we amateurs assume that complex techniques and expensive plugins are always necessary because we see all the fancy stuff the pro studios have and assume mixing couldn't possibly be that simple
If I got your point correctly, you pan all the drum kit left, center and right? I used to pan in that way: Kick center Snare center Hihat 100% left Ride 100% right All other pieces (toms and cymbals) at various percentages left and right. Do you pan all 100% left or right?
Great question. I would like an answer to that too. Are all the other instruments recorded in mono and then placed on the extreme left and right and the kick, bass, snare and main vox in the centre if you are using LCR? Thank you.
Usually a common way to pan drums in rock and metal is to mimic the placement of the elements relating to the drumkit, using either drummer or audience perspective. Kick and Snare often find place in the dead center, and crash cymbals 100% left and right. Hihat are often placed between something like 30-50%. I find toms to allow a lot of placement possibilities, though I like to stick to the "mental image" of the drumkit. Of course, these are also my personal tastes, so I can only encourage you to be creative in that regard! Have fun and you'll figure out what you like the most :D
Usually if I can get an acceptable static LCR mix that also works in mono before any plug-ins, I will either make things better or worse from there. Many times worse LOL!! Have a ways to go still in skills, but this is a hard rule for me now, LCR & mono. Thank you again Bobby for your videos and generous sharing of info, appreciate you!
I've only found use in side chaining for correction purposes, usually to duck my OH a little bit from the hihat track if the hihat is too loud in the OH. Same sometimes for ride cymbal. Totally agree that if your kick and bass don't gel after EQ and 2bus glue then the problem is way more fundamental
I also wouldn't advise doing that. Just ride the OH fader. ALL legendary mixers just ride stuff around to create impact and balance instruments. Sidechaing just create more problems than it solves.
What I've learned is the important thing to always keep in mind with mixing is to ask why and what is the purpose of doing whatever you're doing. Why am I adding this plugin? How am I going to use this plugin to improve the mix? Why am I boosting 500hz here? I find many people (including myself in the past) see a TH-camr or famous mixer do something then just copy it to their own mix without understanding why and how that fits into the person's workflow. You're going to have different source tracks and a different workflow than that person and if they're any good all the moves they make are part of the big picture and all add up in a carefully thought out and tested manner. That's why you can't just go "oh Colin Richardson boosts 1.5k on guitar so I'm always gonna do that" or "he uses 8 plugins on his snare bus on these settings so I'm gonna copy it and just use it" Wow that was a lot longer than I intended lol Learn the fundamentals first, im learning this now
I am a true firm believer in what this man says. I went down the plug in holy grail rabbit hole. I also scoured the web for endless tricks or whatever. Bought outboard gear to try and polish a turd of a mixes. He's absolutely correct on his approach.I think the problem now is there is way to much info and opinions about mixing and generally everything overall. This makes learning an actual skill difficult because you have no clue what to believe or how to reference yourself if starting out. But I took a few of the classes last year and learned and understood basic compression and eq and most importantly how to really use your ears (the most important piece of gear ). To have a great mix you shouldn't have to have 40 plug ins running Learn how to get a good starting point and you are already 80% there. I think drums are probably the most difficult and most fun. And vocals are the most challenging to get "professional". Again though if your drummer or singer doesn't sound good from the start this is when the problems arise. I found myself over processing bad performances and kicking myself because they didn't sound polished enough. It sucks to have to quantize the snot out of drums and do endless editing and sampling or pitch correcting vocals to hell and back. It's no longer a recording. St least in the rock and metal world. Modern stuff has gotten way to un organic. Learn how to get a good dry sound. Try different mic placement or different mics. Try something different then a 57 on everything. lol. One of the best snare drums I ever tracked was done with a small pencil condenser taped to a cheap blue 100i mic. There is no rule or anything about this art . I am no where near a pro engineer or mixer but this guys channel has helped me a lot. I almost had to stop overthinking it.....
To your comment at around 2:00: yes, an enormous amount of "recording" and "mixing" advice online is implicitly only for EDM and hip hop, even though those giving the advice don't realize it. You'll see rock and metal producers always caveat about their genre conventions, but not EDM and hiphop - they assume their genre is the "default" for some reason and believe that all their advice always applies. In many cases, producers in these genres are working with precisely zero recorded content and are using almost exclusively samples and synthesizers, which is why they speak in such absolutes: their source material is already heavily processed and easy to work with, and their advice basically does not apply to anything with real in-the-room recorded instruments or louder, less dynamic genres like rock and metal. Now to be fair I've gotten some great advice from these folks, but I always have to take it with a grain of salt because they'll say things like "now, when you get to the drop of the song, make sure that's the loudest, and don't sidechain during the buildup" and it's like... I'm making rock and metal, there is no buildup and drop!
Instances where you do want to use side-chain compression in rock/metal, is to duck the delay and reverb from vocals and lead guitar by putting a compressor on the aux FX return and key it from the same source. Or when you have vox and lead guitar trading off lines, you can duck the guitar with a key input from the vocals.
@ Short verbs can fatten a sound, but not really the longer ones. They will just drown out and push back an element in the sound stage. If it's an element that you want in the forefront, but still have a washy verb on it, if you duck it properly, the verb will be more prominent in between lines. It's still there while the source is audible, but not so much that it totally washes out the source. I tend to do this more with delays, so you don't get this buildup of repeats.
High Pass Filters to get rid of headroom eating garbage do more than "plugin x that producer x is using on all his mixes". Eq and levels are 90% of the work.
I've thought about this trend of non-LCR. Hmm. When I first got the opportunity, at the age of 13, to record stuff w/multiple tracks (4, some tape Tascam, Portastudio 02?), not fooling around w/the double-deck cassette player, the first thing I did was to yank the panning knobs all the way to the L and R. There weren't any talking heads (not referring to the band) on the Internet or even any decent Internet connections. Some 56k modem. The point is I guess back then there wasn't this trend of infodump. So, I think you nailed this one, dude.
I’m a beginner mixer, and I can never get the vocals to sound wide. I’ve tried using wide doubles, and a variety of reverbs and delays, but it never comes out right. Stereo wideners help get them wide, but then it screws up the rest of the mix so I know it’s not the right way to make a mono vocal wide in the center. Pls any advice helps.
Personally i'd do 3 takes, 100% left, 100% right and dead center that should make it wide enough ;) But, if like you say they sound like different voices, get just your center mono vocal and create 2 tracks (100% left panned + 100% right panned) then send that vocal to each of them and use reverbs/delays with slightly different timing settings (modulation etc etc) and that will give it a different flavour but it will surely be wide, not sure if that makes sense to you but hopefully it does :)
I a.m guilt of using some of the techniques just because I a.m a novice at Metal Music Productions and not know any better. But a.m slowly getting better as I Focus on the more important stuff. At least I learned to use stock plugins and not relly too much on the trench plugins out there.
Yeah man most people think and hope that a crap load of plug-in library etc will magically fix or help them. It's all in the approach and technique we use to mix
I think, as an amateur myself, it some times TH-cam inundates guys that give mix tips and it’s all stuff to that may help in certain situations. But what sometimes isn’t said is that you shouldn’t need these mic tricks ALL THE TIME. Getting it right at the source and great performances seem to cut the mix time in half easily. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the tips are for actual problems
Yep, all of the best sounding mixes I’ve ever done have been extraordinary simple. Get the guitar sounding right, the bass gelling, the drums snappy and tight and pan correctly to leave enough space. Limiter on the 2 buss and anything else should be very subtle and add just a little sheen on top. Automate a bit of verb if needed for vocals and you’re essentially done. I think many people see just how MUCH shit is out there and we wanna buy it. We think we need it when really, we have exactly what we need attach to either side of our heads. Use your ears more than anything and you’re on the right track. Pun.
Stereo widening sounds like crap unless used only when necessary. I use stereo widening for some instrumental tracks in rap beats. Usually the main melodies, sometimes a low stringed instrument, or on pads or textures just to give it a bigger feel. Only time i would use it in rock or metal is if i added a pad or mono synth or something like that. If you want stereo, record it like that. Takes more time...and skill but hey what else are you doing?🤷♂️
@@dougleydorite yeah i was trying to figure out how to get more bass without using up headroom or getting distortion so i put the low end of my kick on a buss and put a stereo widener on it
Dude, this might be a placebo effect you're hearing. Low frequencies tend to be omnidirectional, so no need to widen them. This is why subwoofers can be placed pretty much anywhere.
@@FrightboxRecording i have headphones that have ridiculous amount of bass i can feel where the bass is thumping when i put the stereo widener on it bumps on the sides. I got the idea from some youtube video where they were showing how in some pop songs when the chorus hits the bass goes from mono to stereo.
I completely disagree with much of what you said. Many of these ideas apply to rock and metal genres, or anything with live drums and instruments. But in many forms of electronic music sidechaining is crucial to achieve competitive loudness, otherwise DJ's won't play your tracks. Mono compatibility is also important in electronic music because most club systems run in mono. And parallel processing is essentially the only way to achieve many of the sounds in modern dance/electronic music. Good luck getting your track to maintain clarity at -5 LUFS without parallel processing.
It has to sound good to start with man. If you need to use compression slightly with some nice pre amps then that's what needs done. I learned that 20 years ago man. Maybe 10 years ago I got into a new band after jamming in the same band for 15 years. Things were tight as hell man. We sounded killer really BUT and that's a BIG BUT... LOL.... EGOs took over when we went into the studio. We didn't have a good preamp we had this old PreSonus 8 channel thing LOL. It didn't sound good. I told the other guitar player that, but he took it like I was saying that his sound in general didn't sound good. SO we hired this so called Pro.... SO behind my back It got stabbed 50 times man. HAHAHA They tried to cut my guitar out of a recording and get it past me LOL I was like WHATTTT this guy didn't know how to record Metal music when I had been doing it for 10 years man I knew If we recorded Direct which is what this guy wanted on my guitar which made it sound horrible alone of COURSE. I said man it needs a speaker IR LOL... Dude didn't even know what I was talking about man LOL Nobody listens when EGO rules. It's tough man. BUT LOL I learned that my mixes got way better when I got a nice interface with real preamps and converters and some outboard gear with some REALLY nice preamps. I started side chaining the kick and the bass Because the Bass player we had back then wanted his bass LOUD LOL the kick was not there really. Even with correcting the Curve like you said. I have tried that for decades LOL NOW I can get a louder mix and have the kick punch like it should using frequency PLUS Side chaining...Thought I would add that... My issue is I don't have a band and this last song I will probably release it on spotify or something I don't know just for the heck of it BUT its tough when you jammed that long and NOW it's just one-man BAND HAHAH... Wish I had this stuff back then for sure. I was thinking making some videos of the song playing while I show a screen capture of the DAW and Plugins I am using along with the outboard Gear. I got a GIANT guitar tone man and I really want to do something with it. I am too old to go live but maybe not HAHAHA...
as a beginner i was always confused as to why i couldn't achieve a good wide stereo sound for my rhythm guitar tracks (i was using Ozone imager, split second pinpong delay etc) until i discovered i was missing a crucial part of tracking which is simply recording 2 separate takes of the same part and hard panning left and right. Before discovering that little detail i always thought songs only used one take of a part with post fx magic creating the stereo sound. Pasting the same take left and right also doesn't work because the exact same waveform will clash with itself and cause phasing issues. The extremely subtle disparities in 2 DIFFERENT waveforms hard panned are what create that awesome full and wide sound, no post stereo FX required and it really drives the point home of how well the recordings themselves need to be PERFORMED in order to have them fit perfectly together in the mix.
@thepurge7964 interesting, will have to give it a try, would probably work well for lead parts to seperate them from the rhythm and/or add a unique dynamic
@@djentlemann6663 I started doing it recently on lead vocals and it sounds sick. Would probably work well on anything melodic. Easy to do in FL Studio because every audio clip has a "stereo delay" knob in there.
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The plugin rabbit hole is real. It took me a while to realize less is more and the most import thing is getting what you're recording sounding good from the start... It can't be fixed in the mix.
Yeees
Me too,I’m using less now and doing minor tweaks here and there achieving a better mix
Dude absolutely. I spent so much time and $ on bs. The marketing department in the audio biz is very good at making me spend $.
Realest shxt ever! The more you have to do to get something to sound "better" the more it says it sucks. Lol. Just do it over or try something else...
Agreed. I almost went that direction. Instead of just spending money I did some research. Any reputable daw should have the tools you need to make a good mix of you know what you are doing.
So true about TH-cam being over saturated with videos about audio production. It is so hard to figure who to listen too. Bobby has been my go to for tricks and tips. Thanks Bobby!
I agree with everything you mentioned except Parallel compression. Andrew Scheps and Michael Brauer's use of parallel compression is on another level. The tracks they receive I assume are recorded very well yet they both use multiple instances to make their mixes fuller, harmonically richer. Also when done correctly will give you amuch better crest factor.
You are totally right bro!
Thank you Bobby! I've been following you for over a year and your videos have helped me immensely.
Since I've been following your teaching, I think I've improved, and the feedback I get from those who have heard my production seem to be genuine in their positive responses. Your "It's not bad or wrong, but it's not detrimental" approach has brought clarity to the congested world of "Feed the wheel" production techniques.
I see Top Down mixing as the way to go -put thought into tracking, and only make adjustments in the mix when necessary (i.e. things that you cannot bring to standard with levels, EQ, and subtle compression).
This channel is a godsend in this huge noise of overwhelming and conflicting information. As you say, the internet has tons of conflicting information and that means that your videos naturally also conflict with other information out there, but there is just something about your philosophy of keeping things simple that vibes with me a lot, as well as constantly looking backwards to the source instead of layering shit on shit.
Which of your courses would you recommend for a self-proclaimed solo musician, composer, producer and mixer with no experience besides starting and stopping projects, but never finishing them? I'm trying to do hard rock and classic heavy metal, but I mostly struggle with guitar tone. I saw your vid on guitar tones and it helped me immensely, but it's not quite there yet.
Bobby with the TRUTH BOMBS today!
Re: Stereo widening - you can easily make any part feel wider/narrower by creating CONTRAST with whatever came before it.
For example, try making the verse guitars 75-75 and the chorus guitars 100-100. Or even a single mono verse guitar, then stereo doubled chorus guitars.
I love how Bobby says automation is boring and no one wants to do it. He's spot on. Automating your panning/volume is more effective than any gimmick.
Yes, yes yes! I know as engineers we don’t always get the choice but if you are diplomatic and don’t step on the toes of whomever is producing, you can often help with arrangement ideas like these. Less is more, except when more is more but as a rule of thumb you would be doing yourself a favour to keep things lessc let’s say ‘ultra’ as a baseline!
I always come back to your channel for motivation...
Great video Bobby! It seems like a lot of people are unhappy with their mixes and looking for the easy fix/magic trick instead of building their skills and doing the work. Thanks!
Yo Bob thanks for the tips!
It's actually crazy how the journey through recording/mixing etc is so similar for everyone :O
I too was one who said.. "Automation" F that BUT, it really REALLY does change the game!
Great tips Bobby, Keep up the good work
Well, color me relieved, because yes, many people recommend sidechain compression of kick to bass, but I could never figure out for the life of me how to do it in my basic version of Cubase. In the end, I assumed that if I apply a bit of compression only to the low end which is mostly taken by kick and bass, it would have close enough effect.
Guilty as charged 😂 On the real though,the 2 greatest rules are
1.Right at the source 2. The right balance. If you can perfect those and learn basic Eq, compression, and other basics your tracks will come out better.And after years of rabbit holing through TH-cam, it finally sank in and now things are starting to click for my music, so thank you, Bobby🤘
I am grateful to follow this master of music mixing
These were exceptionally well-curated lists. Both what to care about and what not to. I’m 27 years into my career and I use fewer tricks than I ever have, by just focusing on level and eq. It’s experience that will get you better- not magic bullet “secret” techniques.
Great as always Bobby - Thanx!
Side chaining is pretty fun for EDM even when it's a little bit rock/metal infused, but from my experience, it only works well when you have enough space between hits of the kick drum. With most rock/metal, the kick is going too crazy and will just end up removing the bass entirely. And, even worse, unless you have the compression set to ONLY the lowest bass, your kick might be canceling out the high end of the bass as well (that isn't even competing for frequency space) which just causes a ton of problems. In that case, it's 100% better to just EQ your way to balancing it out unless you're specifically trying to achieve that "pumping" effect.
I exclusively use Soothe 2 for this now (a la Jaycen Joshua's technique) if/when I use it, specifically for the reasons you mentioned. If I'm working on a crowded metal mix in drop G or a track with heavy kicks, 808s, and a mid bass, I might reach for sidechain to get like 5-10% of the transient details back in the low end. It's a late stage mixing choice now, if necessary.
Great video Bobby as always 🤘🏼🤘🏼, how far long before your studio is finished? I really wanna see the finished results
We start framing this week! I'm hoping it'll be up and running in April. Lot's of videos covering the building process on the way.
Parallel compression is for the drum bus. It's a flavor over the top, after the drums are already individually processed and mixed, and personally, if I use triggers or sample augmentation, and especially things like bass drops/percussive sample SFX, I put that on a separate bus, and it doesn't get compressed, at all, or very little, just enough to glue. It took forever for me to figure out that sometimes, less is more, and getting the recording right is more important. I used to over process already processed drum sample libraries and over compress the master, and as a result my mixes pumped harder than a Daft Punk or Infected Mushroom song - which is not a good thing; not for metal, anyway.
Automation for widening. When working on the automation for levels consider automating the panning. LCR for big sections like chorus and solos and bring it in some during verses.
On the money. Good on you for being so candid about these clickbait rabbit holes.
thank you Bobby for helping us self produced musicians. I've learned a good bit from watching your channel.
keep up the hard work! 🫶
I hope your day is off to a great start today!!!
🖤🤍🤘🤍🖤
Glad you're enjoying the channel!
Great vid Bobby. Agree with all your points - plugin companies do a great job marketing their plugins as magic bullets, and beginners can make their mixes sound pro if they buy the plugin. There is no substitute for the hard yards - great source tracks to begin with, learning about eq and compression, LCR panning, volume automation and techniques like Bobby demonstrates. That's the jam...not the plugin companies marketing bullshit
To be honest, it’s true for the most part, but for the most part is what you really need to focus on, there are some plugins that are actually just magic, they won’t take you from what is a volume knob? To a professional mix, but they definitely do make it easier to get there when you already know what you’re doing
Great vid per usual dude
I think sometimes we amateurs assume that complex techniques and expensive plugins are always necessary because we see all the fancy stuff the pro studios have and assume mixing couldn't possibly be that simple
Thank you
Hi, thanks for your Video.
Can you Show us Tips to record drums?
Is it possible to send tracks to you for Feedback?
If I got your point correctly, you pan all the drum kit left, center and right? I used to pan in that way:
Kick center
Snare center
Hihat 100% left
Ride 100% right
All other pieces (toms and cymbals) at various percentages left and right. Do you pan all 100% left or right?
Great question. I would like an answer to that too.
Are all the other instruments recorded in mono and then placed on the extreme left and right and the kick, bass, snare and main vox in the centre if you are using LCR?
Thank you.
Usually a common way to pan drums in rock and metal is to mimic the placement of the elements relating to the drumkit, using either drummer or audience perspective.
Kick and Snare often find place in the dead center, and crash cymbals 100% left and right. Hihat are often placed between something like 30-50%. I find toms to allow a lot of placement possibilities, though I like to stick to the "mental image" of the drumkit.
Of course, these are also my personal tastes, so I can only encourage you to be creative in that regard! Have fun and you'll figure out what you like the most :D
Usually if I can get an acceptable static LCR mix that also works in mono before any plug-ins, I will either make things better or worse from there. Many times worse LOL!! Have a ways to go still in skills, but this is a hard rule for me now, LCR & mono. Thank you again Bobby for your videos and generous sharing of info, appreciate you!
I've only found use in side chaining for correction purposes, usually to duck my OH a little bit from the hihat track if the hihat is too loud in the OH. Same sometimes for ride cymbal. Totally agree that if your kick and bass don't gel after EQ and 2bus glue then the problem is way more fundamental
If the cymbals were recorded right, no side-chaining should be necessary. I used to struggle with hi-hat until I started spot micing cymbals.
I also wouldn't advise doing that. Just ride the OH fader. ALL legendary mixers just ride stuff around to create impact and balance instruments. Sidechaing just create more problems than it solves.
What I've learned is the important thing to always keep in mind with mixing is to ask why and what is the purpose of doing whatever you're doing.
Why am I adding this plugin?
How am I going to use this plugin to improve the mix?
Why am I boosting 500hz here?
I find many people (including myself in the past) see a TH-camr or famous mixer do something then just copy it to their own mix without understanding why and how that fits into the person's workflow. You're going to have different source tracks and a different workflow than that person and if they're any good all the moves they make are part of the big picture and all add up in a carefully thought out and tested manner. That's why you can't just go "oh Colin Richardson boosts 1.5k on guitar so I'm always gonna do that" or "he uses 8 plugins on his snare bus on these settings so I'm gonna copy it and just use it"
Wow that was a lot longer than I intended lol
Learn the fundamentals first, im learning this now
I am a true firm believer in what this man says. I went down the plug in holy grail rabbit hole. I also scoured the web for endless tricks or whatever. Bought outboard gear to try and polish a turd of a mixes. He's absolutely correct on his approach.I think the problem now is there is way to much info and opinions about mixing and generally everything overall. This makes learning an actual skill difficult because you have no clue what to believe or how to reference yourself if starting out. But I took a few of the classes last year and learned and understood basic compression and eq and most importantly how to really use your ears (the most important piece of gear ). To have a great mix you shouldn't have to have 40 plug ins running Learn how to get a good starting point and you are already 80% there. I think drums are probably the most difficult and most fun. And vocals are the most challenging to get "professional". Again though if your drummer or singer doesn't sound good from the start this is when the problems arise. I found myself over processing bad performances and kicking myself because they didn't sound polished enough. It sucks to have to quantize the snot out of drums and do endless editing and sampling or pitch correcting vocals to hell and back. It's no longer a recording. St least in the rock and metal world. Modern stuff has gotten way to un organic. Learn how to get a good dry sound. Try different mic placement or different mics. Try something different then a 57 on everything. lol. One of the best snare drums I ever tracked was done with a small pencil condenser taped to a cheap blue 100i mic. There is no rule or anything about this art . I am no where near a pro engineer or mixer but this guys channel has helped me a lot. I almost had to stop overthinking it.....
To your comment at around 2:00: yes, an enormous amount of "recording" and "mixing" advice online is implicitly only for EDM and hip hop, even though those giving the advice don't realize it. You'll see rock and metal producers always caveat about their genre conventions, but not EDM and hiphop - they assume their genre is the "default" for some reason and believe that all their advice always applies. In many cases, producers in these genres are working with precisely zero recorded content and are using almost exclusively samples and synthesizers, which is why they speak in such absolutes: their source material is already heavily processed and easy to work with, and their advice basically does not apply to anything with real in-the-room recorded instruments or louder, less dynamic genres like rock and metal. Now to be fair I've gotten some great advice from these folks, but I always have to take it with a grain of salt because they'll say things like "now, when you get to the drop of the song, make sure that's the loudest, and don't sidechain during the buildup" and it's like... I'm making rock and metal, there is no buildup and drop!
Instances where you do want to use side-chain compression in rock/metal, is to duck the delay and reverb from vocals and lead guitar by putting a compressor on the aux FX return and key it from the same source. Or when you have vox and lead guitar trading off lines, you can duck the guitar with a key input from the vocals.
Sounds way too complicated and I never do this, but if it works for you have at it!
I think the main use of reverb is to fatten the sound and give it "space", so if you duck the reverb you lose a lot of that.
@@FrightboxRecording Not at all. It's already setup in my template, so my selected delays/verbs will duck.
@ Short verbs can fatten a sound, but not really the longer ones. They will just drown out and push back an element in the sound stage. If it's an element that you want in the forefront, but still have a washy verb on it, if you duck it properly, the verb will be more prominent in between lines. It's still there while the source is audible, but not so much that it totally washes out the source. I tend to do this more with delays, so you don't get this buildup of repeats.
100% agreed on stereo wideners.
High Pass Filters to get rid of headroom eating garbage do more than "plugin x that producer x is using on all his mixes". Eq and levels are 90% of the work.
Nothing but the facts here 👍
I've thought about this trend of non-LCR. Hmm. When I first got the opportunity, at the age of 13, to record stuff w/multiple tracks (4, some tape Tascam, Portastudio 02?), not fooling around w/the double-deck cassette player, the first thing I did was to yank the panning knobs all the way to the L and R. There weren't any talking heads (not referring to the band) on the Internet or even any decent Internet connections. Some 56k modem. The point is I guess back then there wasn't this trend of infodump. So, I think you nailed this one, dude.
most people that struggle with mixing don't know basics, level and panning.
Preach!
I’m a beginner mixer, and I can never get the vocals to sound wide. I’ve tried using wide doubles, and a variety of reverbs and delays, but it never comes out right. Stereo wideners help get them wide, but then it screws up the rest of the mix so I know it’s not the right way to make a mono vocal wide in the center. Pls any advice helps.
Record two takes and pan them left and right.
@ tried that. Do I just need the takes to be spot on the same? Because otherwise it sounds like 2 voices.
Personally i'd do 3 takes, 100% left, 100% right and dead center that should make it wide enough ;)
But, if like you say they sound like different voices, get just your center mono vocal and create 2 tracks (100% left panned + 100% right panned) then send that vocal to each of them and use reverbs/delays with slightly different timing settings (modulation etc etc) and that will give it a different flavour but it will surely be wide,
not sure if that makes sense to you but hopefully it does :)
@@gazbg123Thanks. I will try this.
Pan wide, you can add modulation, double Vox or delay
I a.m guilt of using some of the techniques just because I a.m a novice at Metal Music Productions and not know any better. But a.m slowly getting better as I Focus on the more important stuff. At least I learned to use stock plugins and not relly too much on the trench plugins out there.
but with lcr, isn't it likely that you can pan something "out of the speaker"
Yeah man most people think and hope that a crap load of plug-in library etc will magically fix or help them. It's all in the approach and technique we use to mix
Sidechaining, when applied cleverly, is a magic tool though.
Do you LCR your cymbal mics?? Or do you in between??
LCR 99% of the time.
@ man… something new everyday.
Thank you!
Mixing won't make your mixes better if you don't know how to mix.
So then how mixers who are good today learn when they were starting out?
So true..
@@dougleydorite they always knew
Awesome
This video is 100% correct
I think, as an amateur myself, it some times TH-cam inundates guys that give mix tips and it’s all stuff to that may help in certain situations. But what sometimes isn’t said is that you shouldn’t need these mic tricks ALL THE TIME. Getting it right at the source and great performances seem to cut the mix time in half easily. Sometimes it’s easy to forget the tips are for actual problems
Yep, all of the best sounding mixes I’ve ever done have been extraordinary simple. Get the guitar sounding right, the bass gelling, the drums snappy and tight and pan correctly to leave enough space. Limiter on the 2 buss and anything else should be very subtle and add just a little sheen on top. Automate a bit of verb if needed for vocals and you’re essentially done. I think many people see just how MUCH shit is out there and we wanna buy it. We think we need it when really, we have exactly what we need attach to either side of our heads. Use your ears more than anything and you’re on the right track. Pun.
Sidechaining kick and bass usually doesnt sound good when you use live instruments but if your using midi instruments it works very well
Tell that to Buster Odeholm
@BukanIbuMu i thought he mostly sidechained like the snare to the guitars and stuff like that also a ton of the bands he does use midi bass
I have been wondering for a while how long the attention span of a squirrel actually is.
It is one second.
You're welcome
😂
Stereo widening sounds like crap unless used only when necessary. I use stereo widening for some instrumental tracks in rap beats. Usually the main melodies, sometimes a low stringed instrument, or on pads or textures just to give it a bigger feel. Only time i would use it in rock or metal is if i added a pad or mono synth or something like that. If you want stereo, record it like that. Takes more time...and skill but hey what else are you doing?🤷♂️
Starts @ 1:39
I think that the saying "a little goes a long way" is very important to remember here 🤓
💛
Catch me doing almost all of these things and having awful mixes
Dawless hot mixes, make tracking sacred again
I use stereo widener on the low end of my kick and bass guitar
You stereo widen a mono source?
...
@@dougleydorite yeah i was trying to figure out how to get more bass without using up headroom or getting distortion so i put the low end of my kick on a buss and put a stereo widener on it
Dude, this might be a placebo effect you're hearing. Low frequencies tend to be omnidirectional, so no need to widen them. This is why subwoofers can be placed pretty much anywhere.
@@FrightboxRecording i have headphones that have ridiculous amount of bass i can feel where the bass is thumping when i put the stereo widener on it bumps on the sides.
I got the idea from some youtube video where they were showing how in some pop songs when the chorus hits the bass goes from mono to stereo.
Get the billy basics right first, LCR FTW
13 minutes and 15 seconds of truth bombs :)
100% Dead on correct !!!
"stereo widening" bro just pan 100/100
Couldn't agree more!
I completely disagree with much of what you said. Many of these ideas apply to rock and metal genres, or anything with live drums and instruments. But in many forms of electronic music sidechaining is crucial to achieve competitive loudness, otherwise DJ's won't play your tracks. Mono compatibility is also important in electronic music because most club systems run in mono. And parallel processing is essentially the only way to achieve many of the sounds in modern dance/electronic music. Good luck getting your track to maintain clarity at -5 LUFS without parallel processing.
❤
Well common' its one louder
Just remember the rule:
for 5 toms
-40
-30
30
60
80
for 4 toms
-30
30
60
80
for 3 toms
-30
30
60
That is ALL BRO. Enything else LCR]
i'm using this FOR 100% OF MY MIXES
It has to sound good to start with man. If you need to use compression slightly with some nice pre amps then that's what needs done. I learned that 20 years ago man. Maybe 10 years ago I got into a new band after jamming in the same band for 15 years. Things were tight as hell man. We sounded killer really BUT and that's a BIG BUT... LOL.... EGOs took over when we went into the studio. We didn't have a good preamp we had this old PreSonus 8 channel thing LOL. It didn't sound good. I told the other guitar player that, but he took it like I was saying that his sound in general didn't sound good. SO we hired this so called Pro.... SO behind my back It got stabbed 50 times man. HAHAHA They tried to cut my guitar out of a recording and get it past me LOL I was like WHATTTT this guy didn't know how to record Metal music when I had been doing it for 10 years man I knew If we recorded Direct which is what this guy wanted on my guitar which made it sound horrible alone of COURSE.
I said man it needs a speaker IR LOL... Dude didn't even know what I was talking about man LOL Nobody listens when EGO rules. It's tough man. BUT LOL I learned that my mixes got way better when I got a nice interface with real preamps and converters and some outboard gear with some REALLY nice preamps. I started side chaining the kick and the bass Because the Bass player we had back then wanted his bass LOUD LOL the kick was not there really. Even with correcting the Curve like you said. I have tried that for decades LOL NOW I can get a louder mix and have the kick punch like it should using frequency PLUS Side chaining...Thought I would add that...
My issue is I don't have a band and this last song I will probably release it on spotify or something I don't know just for the heck of it BUT its tough when you jammed that long and NOW it's just one-man BAND HAHAH... Wish I had this stuff back then for sure. I was thinking making some videos of the song playing while I show a screen capture of the DAW and Plugins I am using along with the outboard Gear. I got a GIANT guitar tone man and I really want to do something with it. I am too old to go live but maybe not HAHAHA...
as a beginner i was always confused as to why i couldn't achieve a good wide stereo sound for my rhythm guitar tracks (i was using Ozone imager, split second pinpong delay etc) until i discovered i was missing a crucial part of tracking which is simply recording 2 separate takes of the same part and hard panning left and right. Before discovering that little detail i always thought songs only used one take of a part with post fx magic creating the stereo sound. Pasting the same take left and right also doesn't work because the exact same waveform will clash with itself and cause phasing issues. The extremely subtle disparities in 2 DIFFERENT waveforms hard panned are what create that awesome full and wide sound, no post stereo FX required and it really drives the point home of how well the recordings themselves need to be PERFORMED in order to have them fit perfectly together in the mix.
You can also apply stereo delay to a duplicate of the same take to give it a similar wideness without the phasing problem.
@thepurge7964 interesting, will have to give it a try, would probably work well for lead parts to seperate them from the rhythm and/or add a unique dynamic
@@djentlemann6663 I started doing it recently on lead vocals and it sounds sick. Would probably work well on anything melodic. Easy to do in FL Studio because every audio clip has a "stereo delay" knob in there.
Stereo delay can sound great on vocals, but with guitar I think doubletracking gets a richer sound.
I'm the most amateur mixer of all time.
No, I am!
Thanks for
the “wake up” information. Everything you say is right on, I think … 🤔
Got a new band I'm listening to... th-cam.com/video/wx2WK_jidhk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3nVxXCs-7_Hh8DMn