They mentioned they didnt count matches if someone DCs but they didn't mention killing yourself on hook. Since the game rewards you for doing this with bloodpoints and punishes you for DCing with a timeout, its very clear why ol merchant is at the top
This is why their "data" is such a crock of shit. I wanna know how many hooks vs kills. I wanna know did they die on first hook or on the 3rd? Give us proper data and not this half assed nonsense.
She's got the highest kill rate on Nightlight's stat site as well. She's been #1 for a long time and it's not even close. Maybe if survivor mains weren't too busy whining about camping and tunneling, this would have been addressed along with all the other bullshit things survivor teammates do to ruin games for the other 3 teammates. The biggest problem with the survivor role, is teammates. It's never been how the killer plays, but survivors will never accept this.
@@ian77444 Most likely. Nurse "only" having 55% Killrate DESPITE being free and therefore also used by new Players AND her having a steep learning Curve (high skill floor, Skill Ceiling is not as high as other Killers) just means that she will probably have something like 70%+ Killrate at high MMR, probably even more. And the Devs simply dont really want to nerf Nurse, mainly because they fear the backlash, but probably also because they can always say that DBD is not pay2win because the strongest Killer in the game is free. And probably as well because they dont have any idea what to do with her, because she needs a complete Rework, she will always be busted, except if you make her that bad that she will be the worst Killer in the game (when you want to keep her power).
I’ve seen some streams from Asian countries and they seem to use self-care a lot because the gameplay is less altruistic. A lot of people get hit and will hide and heal for ages rather than find someone to heal them, or take someone off a gen to heal them faster. Interesting to know if that style results in more escapes!
@@NameIsDoc you think games where every time a survivor gets injured they each take 65 seconds (most of a gen) to heal will result in more escapes ultimately?
@@danowen79 Depends on how they play but yes as then there is less time off gens for the other survivors. if they can hold a chase for a similar time then by the time that survivor gets healed 2 gens are done and the killer doesn't get a down. Look at how old COH basically made it so that surivors couldn't not win in multiple situations.
I play on asian servers and yes, self care is in almost all of my games. It's a very common perk and it's so annoying seeing someone with the healing icon for a minute straight on the HUD.
@larsliamvilhelm Not really, resilience is just a better perk so it will have a higher pick rate at any mmr. Gens typically aren't that hard to find even as a new player and resi even gives 3% more gen speed and affects other actions, 100% it's gonna be picked more. It might be a decent perk but I'm honestly surprised deja vu is as high as it is
@larsliamvilhelmI mean deja is only one spot behind it and better players tend to use resilience in like every single one of their builds. Same reason why adrenaline and windows are up there as well. Used by both newer and veteran players
@larsliamvilhelm. I think you're missing the point, I don't think the original commenter is suggesting that it's the only reason why its got a high pick rate, but a factor to why it's higher. Players playing new survivors or new players in general will probably use the perk more as not only is it a good perk, but easier to get. Other general perks like "we will make it" won't be picked nearly as much as they're not good and you only have 4 perk slots.
as a pig main I agree that alternate objectives make new players heads explode. quite literally in my case. I'd also add that pig is probably one of the easiest killers to secure a 1k with, at minimum.I mean, most killers can secure a 1k without much trouble but pig is especially good at it due to the built-in slowdown and being able to just follow one trapped survivor and force a headpop.
It's not just the fact that nobody wants to face Chess girl, it's also the fact that she is so incredibly complicated. Status effect on top of status effects, breaking pallets, haste, all the stuff. Unless you perfectly know what her current state is you barely have any idea on what exactly happens in a chase with her
She's honestly super simple now. The issue is she's now just permanently undetectable and she's even quieter than Ghost Face and Wraith. I have no idea how you're supposed to hear her coming.
@@JackBytez She is insanely complicated for new players. Her drones have two modes, you need to stand still to not get scanned or you can crouch walk to them, they can be disabled but also recalled while disabled, SM can change the direction it rotates mid chase, she gains haste while you're scanned and trapped, can track you with the radar if you're trapped so you can't mindgame, you get injured by the drones, deep wounded, and broken, AND hindered if you run through it while trapped. Oh, and she's a semi stealth killer, but doesn't breathe loudly like Myers, Pig, or Wraith, and she has no tell like Ghostface with his outfit or Sadako with her lullaby. The kit is so bloated and even as an experienced survivor I have such a hard time trying to figure out what I should be doing in chase because there's so much to think about and keep track of.
@@Orthane no no, I'm *not* seeing because I haven't seen one in, like, 3-4 months or so. Which I do not mind but it makes remembering her kit even tougher of a task for me
@@artemyburakh12 Fair, Skully and Sadako have the same issue, they keep changing them so much so no one can remember what they do. So many people still don't know you can crouch or stand still to avoid getting scanned and think it's guaranteed when they go to disable a drone. Or I have seen way too many people say disabling a drone grants her Haste, which isn't true, it's only when you get scanned or have a Claw Trap. BUUUUT disabling a Drone does increase your scan lines by 33% so disable 3 drones and you get a tick of progress towards Claw Trap. There's just way too much shit to have to learn with her man. I agree Skully has way too many things in her kit. Her old version honestly would probably be better for the game now that 3 genning is basically gone. Hack Drone = Drone gone and she can track you easy and clear to understand. Vault a Pallet with Claw Trap = Pallet gone clear and easy to understand. Get locked on = exposed easy and clear. No Hinder no injure, no broken.
The number of times I get downed when I'm 10 steps away from a window/off the pallet already is ridiculous. I go against WAY too many red barring killers and I have to completely change how I play whenever it happens.
@@VincentLobster i got hit from (i hope everyone can visualize this) a long wall gym window to the second locker from a huntress hatch ZERO exaggeration, on 80ms. then i started recording and got hit from 4 lane pallet to the middle of the tile with a hatchet.. that when i found out its: your ping + killers ping = hit would love to see testing on this so it gets dev attention.. so so ping sided
2:00 the reason lithe is so popular is because it guarantees a win in a mind game, its incredibly used at low mmr and even at high mmr by more laid back players
Resilience and deja vu are probably so high because the are general perks and they synergize with each other to speed up the main objective of the game, at least that’s probably the mindset of the people who use them
i think its more about feng min being a standart character on consle so they have her from the very beginning and with her other perk that silents missed skillchecks :)
SM has a high kill rate solely because I swear in literally every game I’ve played as SM, someone just gives up which leads to others also just giving up
Onryo and her have this high kill rate because the average surv refuses to use his brain to learn how a killer works if it's not the same M1 killer again
@@skylex12dark You mean after her defensive power was gutted and 3-gen was nerfed overall? Makes sense... Survivors either give up, or they just don't know how to play against her. So many survivors get claw trap even outside of chase, which should never happen. Just git gud issue.
You would be shocked at how often a good Deja Vu gen split early on can win a game outright. Or how the % buff it got at all times(for the 3 gens) can sneak a gen or two a lil early that will help pressure the killer. I run it with resilience and when injured and healed to 99% (if no sloppy) 15% gen speed solo is quite nice.
I always thought it was underrated and used it a lot (just like windows) before the buff. With it it’s actually allowed me to finish gens I otherwise wouldn’t have, and allowed those 3v1 wins because the gens were so spread and done without as much time wasting. I wished it was as popular as kindred before the buff, but it’s in a great spot right now. Still waiting on the open handed buff since the lethal buff.
6:50 FYI the stats on Nightlight are generally fairly close to the official stats and, as Scott expected, Save the Best for Last's usage in the Nightlight data dropped from about 10% pre-nerf to about 5-6% currently.
The usefullness of Windows of Opportunity goes down with the maps becoming more killer sided, but the perk becomes progressively more essential as does managing resources in an efficient way!
Im not really a killer main, however i went through a very short phase wanting to play killer. I already had quite a few games under my belt as killer, playing myers, but usually get stomped. I then played spirit and absoutley shredded my MMR ranks, and 4k'd so mnay games with 3+ gens left. so i find it strange you say shes a tough killer. she felt very very very powerful immediately for me.
Lithe is the hardest to make use of *effectively.* It's hella easy to pop but the value you get is iffy. You basically have to abandon your loop as soon as you hit it to make full distance off it imo. Resilience is so heavily lauded by streamers some people just toss it on to follow suit.
it is easiest exhaustion perk to use. you simply path the killer to run north or south then vault a window in that direction and hold-w. that is why it is such a popular perk. It is least situational exhaust perk in the game while being easiest spam without killer having any control over its counter-play. In other words, you get hold-w value out of the perk 10/10 if setup correctly. DH, SB and Balance landing do not get 10/10 value every time because their setup is complicated. Balance landing needs hills and if it doesn't have one, it is not going bring value. DH requires being hooked to be used so not guaranteed value on every chase and when it is active, most survivor are terrible at using it. It has no counter-play towards a good survivor using it but limit usage makes less popular. SB require you to 99 to get controlled value but that makes gens slower. Trading gen value for chase time value is never been a good strategy in dbd, so it remains unpopular.
Perks like resilience being in the meta (atleast to me) just show the meta on both sides but in this example the survivor role have been neutered to such a degree that a relatively niche perk outside of old vault build is now getting more use than ever and is the #4 perk which means by definition it is the most effective tactic available.
@dodang_9147 I have played the game a lot on both sides and I think I have seen Lithe be used well like maybe at most 10 times. DH and Sprint Burst are way easier to use.
@Pidgeonsofwar DH and SB aren't easier to use. Most survivors don't know how to DH effectively, and the killers just bait them out or wait it out. Similarly, most survivors will walk around the map to save their SB, especially if it's a stealth killer because SB hard counters them. This means gens are not getting done fast enough. A lot of people don't know how to manage their exhaustion with SB either. Lithe has an easy activation method and gives guaranteed value in chase because you WILL fast vault something eventually. It's stupid easy, and that's why people like it that much.
I think Trappers Naughty Bear skin is another reason why he so high in the pick rates. Its the first skin to have a unique moir tired to it and had some really funny voice lines. Ppl wanted to show it off so they played trapper a lot.
I feel like most people don't use Deja Vu for finding where gens are, I like to use it to know where to go first at the start of the match and get a 3 gen possibility out of the way asap. Also, the repair speed increase is MASSIVE.
Interesting note on Self care and Asian servers. We tend to use it often during BP events like the one running right now where we have a so called unwritten code where everyone who plays with cross play disabled has to run 5 cakes/streamers and we just farm max bp for the entire game. Its a rare and wholesome time where killers and survivors work together. Dont know if this is the case on other regions but yea thought it was something interesting to share.
At least in NA, when BP events happen killers get even sweatier and bring moris while also trying to ensure that as many people leave with as little points as possible. Yeah that doesn't really happen here.
I think the reason Lithe's pick rate is so high is that it's effectively a free perk on console, as the base game on console come with Feng, but PC still needs to buy her separately. It's also the simplest of the free exhaustion perks, with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard being more difficult to use optimally, and balanced landing being more situational, so it's probably really popular among newer/casual players.
Lithe is the best exhaustion perk rn cause for 1 you don't have to deal with the crap rng with deadhard, 2 you don't have to walk around the whole map with Sprint burst, and finally it tops adrenaline cause the only use throughout the entire game you get any advantage out of it is only when all the gens are popped and that also doesn't stop the killer from being a one shot killer so the additional health state rarely comes in clutch
For swf survival rates: There was a streamer my friends and I played against who got mad that we were a 3 stack, told us to play 'skillfully' and not in a group. Little do they know, all we do is scream at each other over discord, have absolutely no coordination whatsoever, and are usually sending memes midmatch. I usually get better teammates when I solo, but I'll never tell my friends that :3
easier to use correctly IMO. there's no thought to it, you just drop somewhere and you get the full benefit. you need to be very smart about lithe to get its full effectiveness and even then its not guaranteed depending on which way you are forced to vault
easier to activate? no, but it is easier to use *effectively*. you're rarely gonna drop off of a platform when you don't want to use balanced landing, but fast vaulting through windows happens constantly during chases, and you often end up using your lithe speed boost from and into a bad spot just by virtue of having to jump through a window to not get hit
@@ScottJund i guess it’s a matter of perspective. Balanced is useless on 90% of most maps but it’s guaranteed on specific maps/tiles. Lithe isn’t a guaranteed succes but can be executed on pretty much every tile. I prefer the latter and I thought most people did.
@@ScottJundThere’s only like 5 maps in the game where you can guarantee balanced landing value regardless of where you are when you start chase. Balanced is more clutch because whenever you stagger in chase it’s pretty much over but most maps don’t even give you the opportunity to have to deal with stagger. I’d rather have a mostly guaranteed way to get out of a dead zone than the occasional help from having balanced
Before the windows change back in the older days I still used it but since it went on cool down when u vaulted or threw a pallet I used it to scout ahead and memorize and strategize what I would do. “If the killer comes this way I run to that window and then the filler pallet try to run this side if he does the other way I’ll run to this pallet…and so on” it really helped me learn the map 5 years ago
One stat that would be interesting to see is escape rates based on the map offering that was triggered compared to escape rates in matches with a random map selected. For instance, what's the survival rate when survivors bring the match to Eyrie of Crows, for example, compared to the average survival rate in games with no map offering at all?
If someone uses sacrificial ward, u assume you count that as a random map. Remember that the map offering still gets burnt and is not being put away. All 4 players can counter that using one realm offering and Ward is not working. That’d be quite hard to count that for stats.
@@carolinejonesy2681 It's not that difficult, if the map that's used isn't a map that was on an offering then it's not counted for purposes of the "map selected" match data.
That data isn't too important though really. It'd be much easier to just check kill rates based on maps, which they have done in the past. I think the lowest kill rate was Fractured Cowshed last time I saw that info, but it was still like 53%. That said this was long before 6.1.0 when they did that. I dunno if they've posted map data any time later than that though because of course people get mad.
As a guy who plays solo and duos almost exclusively . Your right scott when i play with a friend and we get another dynamic duo . Man we usually steam roll
every skull merchant game I've played had someone give up or DC pretty much, but even the ones that dont in all fairness to survivor side at all levels if you aren't a 4 stack her power is strangely confusing and she seems to be a lot of things at once, so while she has weaknesses I think the confusion she brings gets her a ton of kills
I think Lithe is just the simplest exhaustion perk for a new player to activate and see value from. Dead hard requires knowing attack timings and balanced landing requires map knowledge, neither of which a new player is going to have.
spirit is on the kill list because new players tend to sit and crouch in a spot the moment they think they lost the killer. I have seen it time and time again from both randoms and friends, so new spirits after getting a hit just follow scratch marks like 1 foot away and hear a survivor directly at the end if them
Windowa is amazing because it gives you information so you can decide what to do. The maps are also more complex and complicated so it helps not dying because the map has weird tiles and obstacles.
Lithe being that high makes a lot of sense to me; it's very fun to use and rewards playing a loop correctly with an instant "win" for that tile, allowing you to run to another tile.
Some of my theories about the perks. -Lithe is so high because to many appears to pair better with windows than sprint burst, dead hard and balanced. -Resilence is so high because it pairs nicely with self care
A 60% kill rate actually correlates to a 40% win rate for killer, which matches the 40% individual escape rate for survivors. Meaning that a 60% kill rate is actually the most balanced
Very great points in this video. I wish Scott would have mentioned the effect of cosmetics on killer pics. Trapper being high could be attributed to the popular Naughty Bear skin.
I'd argue that the more and more unsafe maps get for survivors, the more powerful windows becomes, because it means every second of pathing used needs to be going somewhere that is safe, and windows helps you find safe spots and avoid deadzones. I don't use windows, but I 100% understand why it's used having used it a long time ago, and know how important it is to not waste time on trying to find how the loop spawned, where the pallet is, if it's up, and etc.
Sadako being so high on that probably has a lot to do with them changing her a thousand times and people not knowing wtf she does now. Didn’t realize they changed her yet again last patch until I saw her flying at me going 1000 mph after emerging from a TV
Considering adrenaline does nothing for a survivor if they are dead/not unhooked in endgame after last gen pops, nerfing it in anyway wouldn't make sense. It's a gamble of a perk in solo queue, and even in an SWF if you get hard tunneled.
Unpopular Opinion: Perks like Windows of Opportunity, Adrenaline, Pop Goes the Weasel, and Pain Res all need to be nerfed based off their pick rate alone, so that there is more variety during matches
@@mcr00kesdude didn’t say anything about buffing weaker one lol. also far easier to nerf perks than buff then from a balance standpoint. nerfing popular perks because they’re popular is fucking stupid
ooooorrr. we should buff perks that are downright useless? We shouldn't nerf perks that are picked alot souly because they are picked alot. This game is all about optimization everyone will always pick whatever the best combo will be. There shouldn't be such a high disparity between Good and Bad perks, and it implores more variety if you Buff bad perks.
I feel like spirit kinda makes sense, she's hard to play yes, but most people don't play with a good headset or sound at all so phasing around loops is very strong, getting the hit before pallet drop/new survivors are scared to run away from the safety of the pallet
I'm impatiently waiting when Sadako will beat Skull Merchant in kill rate. Because they really are leaning towards making her a low to mid mmr destroyer. Also, considering how she can pretty much kill without hooks and dcs are removed from equation, then yeah, that migh actually be her kill rate. Which is insane (and I bet that with current version of her it won't really change).
Resilience making vaults more better and by default removing almost 9 seconds of gen progression on a gen is pretty good tbh because if you get a great skill check on a gen it just keeps adding a percentage of progression onto that gen from 9% so if you if 6 great skill checks now the gen is 15% less progression needed to complete. Combo that with adrenaline and hope and it's even more rewarding.
I've been using Lithe in my "main" build pretty much since I've started playing in like 2019 and I've always believed it to be to be the most versitile exhaustion perk. Depending on a map and your location on it, BL can become uselesss very fast, meanwhile there's pretty much no corner on any map where there isn't a window/potential dropped pallette. DH is obviously good but I'd say its' skill floor is higher than the other perks of the same category and it fits more to a particular playstyle. Sprint is good but again, imho, it's more restrictive because of the whole activation mechanic. Sure, you can say you don't *have* to walk everywhere but still, you do have to consider and sometimes sacrifice the Sprint use for time efficiency meanwhile Lithe is literally ready-to-use whenever I personally choose to use it.
The point about hooks is really the one that I've always wondered about. I've always thought targeting kill rates was too narrow in a game where many play for other objectives. Like, a 60% kill rate with 3x slowdown tunneling 24/7 isn't the same as a 60% kill rate with 1x slowdown just chasing whoever crosses your path. Hooks wouldn't tell the full story either, but they'd start to paint a little clearer picture I think.
The old rank system worked better than the mmr system and the best thing about is you could learn new killers at rank reset instead of how it is now where if your lucky you get your 1st match with them chill and after that good luck ti you😂
If they acknowledge the data is excessively broad why not present a few different filters on it for comparison? It would be far more useful if it showed these stats but with low/med/high mmr versions, different regions, or split into a few brackets of hours played. Do they lack the ability to split the data into more useful sets or are they too lazy?
Lithe was my go-to Exhaustion Perk while I played. Mostly because I could never get the Dead Hard timing down and Lithe was just straight up an unused Perk on some maps so it always just felt really super bad to run it and get no use from it. I'd use Head On when I was doing a stun Archive but rarely any other time. Sprint Burst was also something else I never felt right using. 15:06 My very first game of Survivor was with two other people who knew the game well. I was the weak link in things and our ability to communicate what was going on didn't really help much. I was able to say "I'm being camped, stay on gens" or "The solo is being camped, stay on gens" and some general things like "at main" but that was really it. It didn't get much better when I wasn't as new. So, yes, one hundred percent, it being a "pre-made" isn't the real factor in things it's just you have four people who are all decently good at the game playing together and their ability to communicate only helps in that it means they don't double up when not needed.
Xenomorph probably isn't super popular because of how stressful it can be. Bad control station spawns and the occasional jank tail hitbox can make it extremely stressful and annoying, aswell as how directly both your power is countered AND counters you regardless of being in your power or not. Your kit has BUILT IN motion tracking and hindered that you as the KILLER have to deal with, and it can all just make for an incredibly unfun playstyle to be robbed of a hit because a turret slowed you down, or just barely being out of range of a tail attack as a survivor makes a vault, or just phasing through them entirely.
Or because he is boring as heck. He's just like Chucky; an overtuned killer that basically plays itself. You don't hear gen sounds in tunnels anymore at least.
As a survivor player, I believe the issue with Xenomorph is that their tail attack is too strong (especially with how frequently it's available), so what ends up happening is survivors absolutely _have_ to rely on turrets. As a result, the Xeno player is constantly being blue-balled, which isn't enjoyable either (for most people).
Speaking as an Oceanic player, a lot of SEA players do tend to play more chase oriented a bit (lot) more selfishly/more for themselves, so when they're not being chased they just go off and reset by themselves. It's just the culture.
The player survival rate doesn’t make sense to me. Like my brain says that the data was gathered incorrectly because how is a duo escape almost the same chance of escaping as a 4 man swf And lithe is always in your back pocket. You can dummy tech and get value and decrease the chance of the pallet being broken. Shack it works well, etc. lithe I feel is just the safest exhaustion.
I personally was not surprised at all seeing skull merchant so high up considering that every Dull Merchant I faced got at least a 2k even if the survivors were not giving up. I mean even otz waant sure what to say about her in his tierlist. He actually said that survivors have still some options in chase like standing still or crouch to avoid the scan lines. However he also disagreed with him a bit later saying that you might be able to sneak through the drones but if the killer comes you are forces to run. Really not used to otz making such a blunder but I also cant really blame him. Like what else was he supposed to say about dully without completly trash talking her. From a killer point of view I tried to compare it with my hag since both are area controle killers right. However most peolpe would argue that hag can get an actual hit/down with her power immediately while dully cant. However she can still shut down loops because you are going down quite quickly if you try to ignore the drown. But why do we like chase hag but hate dully? Well if hag sets up a trap she has to go through an animation in which she cant move at all. Dully can literally keep looping while passively deploying the drone. On top of that hag is a 4.4 movement speed killer which immediately buffs the hold w strat against a hag while dully is 4.6 at worst. Other differences are: Hags traps cover a smaller area. Hags traps can be completly removed or you can trigger them correctly preventing a hit. This forces the hag to waste time replacing the traps. Meanwhile dully does not have the same issue as her drones are deactivated only temporarily. Her drones are actually able to damage survivors passively which is something hag doesn't even have a chance of happening at all. So hags traps cover a smaller area and can be removed completly. This already forces a hag player to use their brains and place the traps not too obvious but still effectivly. A hag also needs to be smart about the area she plans on trapping because leaving that area might make a teleport impossible (range limit) hag is also pretty bad if you try to play her as a normal chase killers so she kinda requires experience and some skill overall. (Still many survivors dont even like hag ) Skully removes all the skill aspect and risk that hag players have to bear in mind. Additionally she gets even more out of her drones (tracking, haste, broken, mending, undetecable, hindered) A hag doesn't get anything of that. And the best part about that is: as a dully player you dont even need to learn anything. You get all that for pressing a button. All that happens passively. Survivors are on the other hand forced to play extremly well and actually mind all that stuff. If you consider all that it is really not surprising that she is the most hated killer. However she also might not feel good to play as either because you have basically zero chance of expressing your skill outside of basic mindgames and even there the undetecable part might do the job for you.
Resilience is good. Shaving some seconds on gen repairs matters esp with the whole gen blocking meta with pain res, dead man's switch, grim embrace. So many times where I could have used a few seconds more to finish a gen when I did't have resilience and deja vu.
Developer stats are almost identical to nightlight, with the difference that nightlight doesn't include low MMR bullshit like self-care being in the top 10. Thus, nightlight can now officially be considered an extremely accurate source. Skull Merchant 70% kill rate, overall average dropped below 60% to 58.5%
One point I would make would be that if you join a full swf at high mmr, your survival rate will increase roughly 9% which is huge. (Edit over being solo q).
Doctor has one of the lowest kill rates because some people have bots or something playing him to farm bloodpoints. They just queue up, stand in spot and shock repeatedly and swing in place. He's last by a significant margin, so it has to be something like this. I think otherwise he'd be higher/mid because he's also a killer that has 'mechanics' but it's only slow down and doesn't directly kill you (like say Pig).
I see resilience being prevalent because of the combo with adrenaline being “do last gen as fast as possible don’t heal” Which pisses me off when I run we’ll make it because people don’t want to be healed guh
Lithe is pretty easy to explain - several maps have limited or no elevation at all so Balanced Landing is a pain in the backside to use (this is 100% Behaviour's fault, they could as a bare minimum add jumpable props like hay bales or whatever to a bunch of maps as a bandaid), Dead Hard appeals to a very specific kind of player (let's put it that way) and is much fiddlier, Sprint Burst is really obnoxious to use and it feels terrible either having to conserve it all the time or not having it when you need it. So Lithe is by default the most casual friendly exhaustion perk. I haven't bothered to use anything else since the DH nerf unless I was on a quest.
The only change I would like for swf is to just know they are swf before the match or even when the match starts just to know what il getting myself into
@@GregPiggot I know which sucks, people that dont know how to handle their emotions ruin everything for all of us. But at the same time would it be such a huge number of people lobby dodging? We wont know until we try it.
I also think the reason 4 man swf isn’t higher is because a lot of 4 man swfs are just 4 people having fun together trying to get flashlight saves and fun plays not sweating trying to win. Or at least that’s usually my experience with them so a lot of the time I end up winning as killer with like 3 gens left and also end up having a lot of fun since I’m always in chase. However, a 4 man of good players all sweating to win with optimal builds is a nightmare to go against.
My build is pretty meta then as I run perks 1,2, 4 and 5 for survivor. Resilience is decent because when injured and stacking with DJV, you are getting a 15% speed increase on your own. This is massive. My first few hundred hours I ran Self-Care and Botany Knowledge, but there are many times in a game where you just need to risk being injured, Self-Caring is not efficient for experienced killers. Also you can 99 the heal for Res unless its sloppy of course and that can help. The amount of times I have either fully healed from injured to clutch last gen with adrenaline, or took a hit just before popping it is untrue. It is a strong build. Windows is a great perk, it helps new starters, but is a universal perk for reasons you said, you can predict pathing where pallets still remain etc. I am surprised Dead Hard is not higher, in most lobbies I see it on 2+ people as killer.
If they included high MMR kill rates anything below A tier would plummet and A tier would be stabilize around 50-60% while S tiers (literally just blight and nurse and maybe spirit but not as much) would be like 70-80% or more. lol
The fact that the balance of the game is based on 40% survival rate and 4-man SWF shifts so much it almost goes to a 50/50 (on high MMR), shows a lot to me on how stressful is to play killer on high MMR, specially if you are not going full meta.
Right but high mmr only makes ~10% from dbd playerbase We should note that why they won't buff/nerf certain things what brings buffing something that only help 10% of playerbase but 90% suffer more.
depending how you define it a almost 50% survival rate at high MMR is actually pretty wild. If you say it's a group statistic where it counts as a loss if even 1 dies it automatically means that at high MMR it's almost 50/50 if you can even kill 1 survivor as a killer against a 4 man SWF. You can also make an argument that that's the reason why they don't show kill rates at high MMR because SWF are more likely at high MMR and it would drop kill rates for some killers well under 50% and might push killers away from playing.
player enjoyment should be the number one concern and not whether data says something is balanced balance and fun are not necessarily synonymous which is why you see alot of people saying that esports and competitive gaming is killing multiplayer
lithe is pretty much an always-use perk for me cause its a sprint burst that i dont have to think about. as long as i get 1 vault in a chase before i get hit then i get value from it, and i dont have to walk from gen to gen to avoid using it at an unoptimal time
00:30 im so sad Any Means Necesarry still hasnt caught up. After all the buffs, its now essencially a Map-Large-Windows in terms of value. You can see where the chase is currently going by seeing all the dropped pallets are, and also know where NOT to go. Also big funny bonus :(
I think Lithe's higher use rate isn't necessarily because people think Lithe is that good, and more because everyone and their great grandmas has Feng, so naturally, they use her perks more.
I have a few questions about those stats: If they can somehow get killrate/escape rate _excluding_ DC games, then can they identify unalive on hook games or friendly Killers? If they can, can they pinpoint the specific accounts where certain Killers are used and exclude them from those stats? Why release stats that don't include the game-changing 7.5.0 update? The ill-thought-out new gen system and STBFL nerf _alone_ will skew those numbers (lower tier Killers less viable, Surge and STBFL will plummet, DMS and Grim Embrace will likely rise, Killer killrate and pickrate will drastically change etc.)? Those stats should have been released, and hopefully will be shown again, a few months after 7.5.0 to really showcase the impact. Why not include high MMR killrate for each Killers (or at least an average)? It's always nice to get a peak, however brief, into the official numbers though.
Seeing those killer pick rates proves to me that the RNG gods hate me. I played 20 Survivor games last week and Blight was 10 of them. Nurse was 4, and the rest were Slinger and Chucky.
But once you replace it, you fail very often and need to learn timing again, this is why i don't use perk like WoO/Resilience, i don't wan't to be addicted.
Instructions misunderstood, survivors get another base perk and we nerf pig again. We are also releasing a perk on survivor and killer that makes it easier for subtle hackers to hide their cheats.
With all due respect, when your take is that Bamboozle causes “brain rot” but windows and lithe don’t…. There might be some catering going on or at the very least some bias.
windows doesn't cause brain rot. that doesn't even make sense. you could definitely argue Lithe does though: "I see vault i take vault" vs Bamboozles "I see window i vault window"
When I just started playing this game one of the first killers I picked up was spirit and it was easy asf even when I was bad, so it makes sense why it's so high
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Wall Song ร้องข้ามกำแพง | EP.215 | พาเวล นเรศ - พูห์ กฤติน | 17 ต.ค. 67 [1/5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IUzrjuf60P4/mqdefault.jpg)
They mentioned they didnt count matches if someone DCs but they didn't mention killing yourself on hook. Since the game rewards you for doing this with bloodpoints and punishes you for DCing with a timeout, its very clear why ol merchant is at the top
This is why their "data" is such a crock of shit. I wanna know how many hooks vs kills. I wanna know did they die on first hook or on the 3rd? Give us proper data and not this half assed nonsense.
@@Efnol so true this is what they dont want you to know
She's got the highest kill rate on Nightlight's stat site as well. She's been #1 for a long time and it's not even close.
Maybe if survivor mains weren't too busy whining about camping and tunneling, this would have been addressed along with all the other bullshit things survivor teammates do to ruin games for the other 3 teammates. The biggest problem with the survivor role, is teammates. It's never been how the killer plays, but survivors will never accept this.
@@EfnolI hope you're joking
@@Efnol Gotta love these internet toughies who assume I play a certain role. 50/50 across both sides but bless your little heart for trying.
No high mmr kill rates irks me. They include the survivor ones but why obscure the killer side?
so they dont have to nerf the nurse lol
BHVR hate seeing the truth, that the game is a piss show at high MMR. They are balancing for the wrong side.
It’s on purpose because the high mmr killers go on 1700 win streaks with blight lol
Yeah isn’t it obvious at this point
@@ian77444 Most likely. Nurse "only" having 55% Killrate DESPITE being free and therefore also used by new Players AND her having a steep learning Curve (high skill floor, Skill Ceiling is not as high as other Killers) just means that she will probably have something like 70%+ Killrate at high MMR, probably even more.
And the Devs simply dont really want to nerf Nurse, mainly because they fear the backlash, but probably also because they can always say that DBD is not pay2win because the strongest Killer in the game is free. And probably as well because they dont have any idea what to do with her, because she needs a complete Rework, she will always be busted, except if you make her that bad that she will be the worst Killer in the game (when you want to keep her power).
I’ve seen some streams from Asian countries and they seem to use self-care a lot because the gameplay is less altruistic. A lot of people get hit and will hide and heal for ages rather than find someone to heal them, or take someone off a gen to heal them faster. Interesting to know if that style results in more escapes!
of course it does thats why healthkits and coh were nerfed
@@NameIsDoc you think games where every time a survivor gets injured they each take 65 seconds (most of a gen) to heal will result in more escapes ultimately?
@@danowen79 Depends on how they play but yes as then there is less time off gens for the other survivors. if they can hold a chase for a similar time then by the time that survivor gets healed 2 gens are done and the killer doesn't get a down. Look at how old COH basically made it so that surivors couldn't not win in multiple situations.
@@danowen79 65 secs?
I play on asian servers and yes, self care is in almost all of my games. It's a very common perk and it's so annoying seeing someone with the healing icon for a minute straight on the HUD.
Resilience is a general perk that any new player has, regardless of the survivor they choose, so it's more likely to get picked probably
it also has weird stacking with other genrush perks.
@larsliamvilhelm Not really, resilience is just a better perk so it will have a higher pick rate at any mmr. Gens typically aren't that hard to find even as a new player and resi even gives 3% more gen speed and affects other actions, 100% it's gonna be picked more.
It might be a decent perk but I'm honestly surprised deja vu is as high as it is
@larsliamvilhelmI mean deja is only one spot behind it and better players tend to use resilience in like every single one of their builds. Same reason why adrenaline and windows are up there as well. Used by both newer and veteran players
With Spine Chill, it’s the best combo for any survivor. I miss the vault speed build. That shit saved me so many times, it’s that amazing.
@larsliamvilhelm. I think you're missing the point, I don't think the original commenter is suggesting that it's the only reason why its got a high pick rate, but a factor to why it's higher. Players playing new survivors or new players in general will probably use the perk more as not only is it a good perk, but easier to get. Other general perks like "we will make it" won't be picked nearly as much as they're not good and you only have 4 perk slots.
as a pig main I agree that alternate objectives make new players heads explode. quite literally in my case. I'd also add that pig is probably one of the easiest killers to secure a 1k with, at minimum.I mean, most killers can secure a 1k without much trouble but pig is especially good at it due to the built-in slowdown and being able to just follow one trapped survivor and force a headpop.
It's not just the fact that nobody wants to face Chess girl, it's also the fact that she is so incredibly complicated. Status effect on top of status effects, breaking pallets, haste, all the stuff. Unless you perfectly know what her current state is you barely have any idea on what exactly happens in a chase with her
She's honestly super simple now. The issue is she's now just permanently undetectable and she's even quieter than Ghost Face and Wraith. I have no idea how you're supposed to hear her coming.
Breaking pallets? That was old Skull Merchant, she doesn't do that anymore. A lot use Dissolution so that's probably what you're seeing.
@@JackBytez She is insanely complicated for new players. Her drones have two modes, you need to stand still to not get scanned or you can crouch walk to them, they can be disabled but also recalled while disabled, SM can change the direction it rotates mid chase, she gains haste while you're scanned and trapped, can track you with the radar if you're trapped so you can't mindgame, you get injured by the drones, deep wounded, and broken, AND hindered if you run through it while trapped.
Oh, and she's a semi stealth killer, but doesn't breathe loudly like Myers, Pig, or Wraith, and she has no tell like Ghostface with his outfit or Sadako with her lullaby. The kit is so bloated and even as an experienced survivor I have such a hard time trying to figure out what I should be doing in chase because there's so much to think about and keep track of.
@@Orthane no no, I'm *not* seeing because I haven't seen one in, like, 3-4 months or so. Which I do not mind but it makes remembering her kit even tougher of a task for me
@@artemyburakh12 Fair, Skully and Sadako have the same issue, they keep changing them so much so no one can remember what they do. So many people still don't know you can crouch or stand still to avoid getting scanned and think it's guaranteed when they go to disable a drone. Or I have seen way too many people say disabling a drone grants her Haste, which isn't true, it's only when you get scanned or have a Claw Trap. BUUUUT disabling a Drone does increase your scan lines by 33% so disable 3 drones and you get a tick of progress towards Claw Trap. There's just way too much shit to have to learn with her man. I agree Skully has way too many things in her kit. Her old version honestly would probably be better for the game now that 3 genning is basically gone. Hack Drone = Drone gone and she can track you easy and clear to understand. Vault a Pallet with Claw Trap = Pallet gone clear and easy to understand. Get locked on = exposed easy and clear. No Hinder no injure, no broken.
its because of how ping sided dbd is, resil really helps with pallets and fast vaults with ping, it mitigates like 10 ms~ i think
The number of times I get downed when I'm 10 steps away from a window/off the pallet already is ridiculous. I go against WAY too many red barring killers and I have to completely change how I play whenever it happens.
@@VincentLobster i got hit from (i hope everyone can visualize this) a long wall gym window to the second locker from a huntress hatch ZERO exaggeration, on 80ms. then i started recording and got hit from 4 lane pallet to the middle of the tile with a hatchet.. that when i found out its: your ping + killers ping = hit
would love to see testing on this so it gets dev attention.. so so ping sided
it’s actually physically pain inducing loading in and seeing the skull merchant ui over the survivor portraits
2:00
the reason lithe is so popular is because it guarantees a win in a mind game, its incredibly used at low mmr and even at high mmr by more laid back players
Also it's more of a direct activation unlike SB and DH
Considering that WoO is #1 it’s not surprising to see it at #3. You can plan your escape much more easily if you’re running them together.
Resilience and deja vu are probably so high because the are general perks and they synergize with each other to speed up the main objective of the game, at least that’s probably the mindset of the people who use them
I like deja as a reliable 3-gen breaker.
I feel the Naughty Bear skin can maybe be why Trapper is so high..People wanting to show off they got it
Best example of pay to lose lol although now it can be bought with shards
Guess what time it is? It's NAUGHTY TIME!
@@TravisTLCdrummingIsn't Naughty Bear much quieter than Trapper? Ok he's got a bigger frame but that doesn't really matter outside of stealth builds
@@HabitsRabbits he also has a way better mori than standard Trapper.
@@TravisTLCdrumming I wouldnt say its pay to lose i mean the skin is pretty cool and i get more enjoyable games from naughty bear trappers usually
I think a lot of people run Lithe because they also run Windows of Opportunity.
Its a really good dead zone detector and makes it even easier for high mmr players to chain and time crossing tiles
i think its more about feng min being a standart character on consle so they have her from the very beginning and with her other perk that silents missed skillchecks :)
Exactly!
Surge is even worse now that gens can only experience 8 regression events
Complain about regression cap = skill issue. Surge is fine.
@@freezeroundsNot necessarily complaining, it’s an observation.
@@DulfyBee An incorrect one. Surge is no weaker because of the regression cap.
@mycatsnameisraya bro wasn't complaining. Just adding to what Scott said about surge not being great. Why are you so hostile?
I still say regression count should only start at the last 1 or 2 gens.
SM has a high kill rate solely because I swear in literally every game I’ve played as SM, someone just gives up which leads to others also just giving up
Onryo and her have this high kill rate because the average surv refuses to use his brain to learn how a killer works if it's not the same M1 killer again
@@itzvanni26 no, it's because SM is just objectively stronger than an average killer, especially when playing her with a three-gen strategy
@@skylex12dark You mean after her defensive power was gutted and 3-gen was nerfed overall? Makes sense...
Survivors either give up, or they just don't know how to play against her. So many survivors get claw trap even outside of chase, which should never happen. Just git gud issue.
Lol SM mains seething. Sorry, I'm just not going to play against SM. I know I know but... I'm just not gonna play against her HA HA HA HA
@@TheSickdeathfiend and why should we care? Enjoy lobby simulator... Weak people are irelevant.
You would be shocked at how often a good Deja Vu gen split early on can win a game outright. Or how the % buff it got at all times(for the 3 gens) can sneak a gen or two a lil early that will help pressure the killer. I run it with resilience and when injured and healed to 99% (if no sloppy) 15% gen speed solo is quite nice.
I always thought it was underrated and used it a lot (just like windows) before the buff. With it it’s actually allowed me to finish gens I otherwise wouldn’t have, and allowed those 3v1 wins because the gens were so spread and done without as much time wasting. I wished it was as popular as kindred before the buff, but it’s in a great spot right now. Still waiting on the open handed buff since the lethal buff.
Scott really said Lythe is his least fav exhaustion perk when Smash Hit exists
Head on gamers
6:50 FYI the stats on Nightlight are generally fairly close to the official stats and, as Scott expected, Save the Best for Last's usage in the Nightlight data dropped from about 10% pre-nerf to about 5-6% currently.
The usefullness of Windows of Opportunity goes down with the maps becoming more killer sided, but the perk becomes progressively more essential as does managing resources in an efficient way!
Im not really a killer main, however i went through a very short phase wanting to play killer. I already had quite a few games under my belt as killer, playing myers, but usually get stomped. I then played spirit and absoutley shredded my MMR ranks, and 4k'd so mnay games with 3+ gens left. so i find it strange you say shes a tough killer. she felt very very very powerful immediately for me.
Depends on a player perception I guess
Lithe is the hardest to make use of *effectively.*
It's hella easy to pop but the value you get is iffy. You basically have to abandon your loop as soon as you hit it to make full distance off it imo.
Resilience is so heavily lauded by streamers some people just toss it on to follow suit.
it is easiest exhaustion perk to use. you simply path the killer to run north or south then vault a window in that direction and hold-w. that is why it is such a popular perk. It is least situational exhaust perk in the game while being easiest spam without killer having any control over its counter-play. In other words, you get hold-w value out of the perk 10/10 if setup correctly. DH, SB and Balance landing do not get 10/10 value every time because their setup is complicated. Balance landing needs hills and if it doesn't have one, it is not going bring value. DH requires being hooked to be used so not guaranteed value on every chase and when it is active, most survivor are terrible at using it. It has no counter-play towards a good survivor using it but limit usage makes less popular. SB require you to 99 to get controlled value but that makes gens slower. Trading gen value for chase time value is never been a good strategy in dbd, so it remains unpopular.
Perks like resilience being in the meta (atleast to me) just show the meta on both sides but in this example the survivor role have been neutered to such a degree that a relatively niche perk outside of old vault build is now getting more use than ever and is the #4 perk which means by definition it is the most effective tactic available.
@dodang_9147 I have played the game a lot on both sides and I think I have seen Lithe be used well like maybe at most 10 times. DH and Sprint Burst are way easier to use.
@dodang_9147 sure, it's easy to use, but I don't see it used well often at all.
@Pidgeonsofwar DH and SB aren't easier to use. Most survivors don't know how to DH effectively, and the killers just bait them out or wait it out. Similarly, most survivors will walk around the map to save their SB, especially if it's a stealth killer because SB hard counters them. This means gens are not getting done fast enough. A lot of people don't know how to manage their exhaustion with SB either. Lithe has an easy activation method and gives guaranteed value in chase because you WILL fast vault something eventually. It's stupid easy, and that's why people like it that much.
I think Trappers Naughty Bear skin is another reason why he so high in the pick rates. Its the first skin to have a unique moir tired to it and had some really funny voice lines. Ppl wanted to show it off so they played trapper a lot.
I feel like most people don't use Deja Vu for finding where gens are, I like to use it to know where to go first at the start of the match and get a 3 gen possibility out of the way asap. Also, the repair speed increase is MASSIVE.
That’s a game changer for dead dawg
Interesting note on Self care and Asian servers. We tend to use it often during BP events like the one running right now where we have a so called unwritten code where everyone who plays with cross play disabled has to run 5 cakes/streamers and we just farm max bp for the entire game. Its a rare and wholesome time where killers and survivors work together. Dont know if this is the case on other regions but yea thought it was something interesting to share.
At least in NA, when BP events happen killers get even sweatier and bring moris while also trying to ensure that as many people leave with as little points as possible. Yeah that doesn't really happen here.
@@jonp1952 Same with EU
Deja vu resilience doesn't suprise me in the least, it's been a great combo ever since the buff especially for new players
I think the reason Lithe's pick rate is so high is that it's effectively a free perk on console, as the base game on console come with Feng, but PC still needs to buy her separately. It's also the simplest of the free exhaustion perks, with Sprint Burst and Dead Hard being more difficult to use optimally, and balanced landing being more situational, so it's probably really popular among newer/casual players.
Lithe is the best exhaustion perk rn cause for 1 you don't have to deal with the crap rng with deadhard, 2 you don't have to walk around the whole map with Sprint burst, and finally it tops adrenaline cause the only use throughout the entire game you get any advantage out of it is only when all the gens are popped and that also doesn't stop the killer from being a one shot killer so the additional health state rarely comes in clutch
For swf survival rates: There was a streamer my friends and I played against who got mad that we were a 3 stack, told us to play 'skillfully' and not in a group. Little do they know, all we do is scream at each other over discord, have absolutely no coordination whatsoever, and are usually sending memes midmatch. I usually get better teammates when I solo, but I'll never tell my friends that :3
Saying balanced landing is easier to use than lithe is a really weird take
easier to use correctly IMO. there's no thought to it, you just drop somewhere and you get the full benefit. you need to be very smart about lithe to get its full effectiveness and even then its not guaranteed depending on which way you are forced to vault
easier to activate? no, but it is easier to use *effectively*. you're rarely gonna drop off of a platform when you don't want to use balanced landing, but fast vaulting through windows happens constantly during chases, and you often end up using your lithe speed boost from and into a bad spot just by virtue of having to jump through a window to not get hit
@@ScottJund i guess it’s a matter of perspective. Balanced is useless on 90% of most maps but it’s guaranteed on specific maps/tiles. Lithe isn’t a guaranteed succes but can be executed on pretty much every tile. I prefer the latter and I thought most people did.
@@CPhelps1247 i think there are only 2 maps in the game where Balanced is useless. idk where this 90% comes from
@@ScottJundThere’s only like 5 maps in the game where you can guarantee balanced landing value regardless of where you are when you start chase. Balanced is more clutch because whenever you stagger in chase it’s pretty much over but most maps don’t even give you the opportunity to have to deal with stagger. I’d rather have a mostly guaranteed way to get out of a dead zone than the occasional help from having balanced
14:30 buddy moment HOORAYYY
"Maybe self care appears in 15% of matches because of cultural differences in other regions" is unhinged lol. Its because of new players.
No. It's genuinely because of Asian servers. Peanits himself indirectly confirmed so in 2022.
Before the windows change back in the older days I still used it but since it went on cool down when u vaulted or threw a pallet I used it to scout ahead and memorize and strategize what I would do. “If the killer comes this way I run to that window and then the filler pallet try to run this side if he does the other way I’ll run to this pallet…and so on” it really helped me learn the map 5 years ago
Did Scott forget about the gens speed buff Deja Vu got?
it always had it it the buff just made it where you could see longer
@@NameIsDoc No it hasn't? That got added in 6.1.0 then multiple times it received buffs across the game's life.
@@NameIsDoc bro you’re just wrong lol
deja vu is definitely a decent perk now
@@Brutes_ For gen jockeys, sure.
One stat that would be interesting to see is escape rates based on the map offering that was triggered compared to escape rates in matches with a random map selected. For instance, what's the survival rate when survivors bring the match to Eyrie of Crows, for example, compared to the average survival rate in games with no map offering at all?
If someone uses sacrificial ward, u assume you count that as a random map. Remember that the map offering still gets burnt and is not being put away. All 4 players can counter that using one realm offering and Ward is not working. That’d be quite hard to count that for stats.
@@carolinejonesy2681 It's not that difficult, if the map that's used isn't a map that was on an offering then it's not counted for purposes of the "map selected" match data.
That data isn't too important though really. It'd be much easier to just check kill rates based on maps, which they have done in the past. I think the lowest kill rate was Fractured Cowshed last time I saw that info, but it was still like 53%. That said this was long before 6.1.0 when they did that. I dunno if they've posted map data any time later than that though because of course people get mad.
I play skull merchant without a power and somehow still win most of my matches. Got one +rep saying "Actual good skull merchant"
As a guy who plays solo and duos almost exclusively . Your right scott when i play with a friend and we get another dynamic duo . Man we usually steam roll
every skull merchant game I've played had someone give up or DC pretty much, but even the ones that dont in all fairness to survivor side at all levels if you aren't a 4 stack her power is strangely confusing and she seems to be a lot of things at once, so while she has weaknesses I think the confusion she brings gets her a ton of kills
I think Lithe is just the simplest exhaustion perk for a new player to activate and see value from. Dead hard requires knowing attack timings and balanced landing requires map knowledge, neither of which a new player is going to have.
Also DH is kinda ping dependent, no?
spirit is on the kill list because new players tend to sit and crouch in a spot the moment they think they lost the killer. I have seen it time and time again from both randoms and friends, so new spirits after getting a hit just follow scratch marks like 1 foot away and hear a survivor directly at the end if them
Windowa is amazing because it gives you information so you can decide what to do. The maps are also more complex and complicated so it helps not dying because the map has weird tiles and obstacles.
Lithe being that high makes a lot of sense to me; it's very fun to use and rewards playing a loop correctly with an instant "win" for that tile, allowing you to run to another tile.
My eye build Is single handedly carrying that 15% Deja vu. Fight me over It
Some of my theories about the perks.
-Lithe is so high because to many appears to pair better with windows than sprint burst, dead hard and balanced.
-Resilence is so high because it pairs nicely with self care
A 60% kill rate actually correlates to a 40% win rate for killer, which matches the 40% individual escape rate for survivors. Meaning that a 60% kill rate is actually the most balanced
Well you are comparing two different things. Killers can "tie". Survivors either win or lose. There's no point in making this comparison.
@@ScottJund there is because that is objectively why they aim for the 60% number
Very great points in this video. I wish Scott would have mentioned the effect of cosmetics on killer pics. Trapper being high could be attributed to the popular Naughty Bear skin.
Resilience is so popular because everyone has access to it
She is also best Allrounder perk work with everything
Bond is a staple for me, there is so much info to deduce from it, and it's perfect for lining up Buckle the People if you're so inclined
Scott unaware of the epidemic of run to yellow aura with lithe gameplay
Will BHVR manage to *_add_* *_fun_* to DbD in 2024? That's really the only stat that matters to me.
I'd argue that the more and more unsafe maps get for survivors, the more powerful windows becomes, because it means every second of pathing used needs to be going somewhere that is safe, and windows helps you find safe spots and avoid deadzones. I don't use windows, but I 100% understand why it's used having used it a long time ago, and know how important it is to not waste time on trying to find how the loop spawned, where the pallet is, if it's up, and etc.
Sadako being so high on that probably has a lot to do with them changing her a thousand times and people not knowing wtf she does now. Didn’t realize they changed her yet again last patch until I saw her flying at me going 1000 mph after emerging from a TV
"Adrenaline is probably never going anywhere"
See you in 8 months when they've gutted it.
Eh, it's BHVR, they could kill it, accidentally buff it or barely change it at all. How'd the Blight nerfs end up?
Considering adrenaline does nothing for a survivor if they are dead/not unhooked in endgame after last gen pops, nerfing it in anyway wouldn't make sense. It's a gamble of a perk in solo queue, and even in an SWF if you get hard tunneled.
@@JakeobE This doesn't stop reddit killers from complaining about it.
@@fudgefiend How'd the Iron Will or Ruin nerfs end up?
@@Svenss Exactly my point though, BHVR is really inconsistent about how they change things, sometimes it'll be major, sometimes it'll be nothing.
Unpopular Opinion: Perks like Windows of Opportunity, Adrenaline, Pop Goes the Weasel, and Pain Res all need to be nerfed based off their pick rate alone, so that there is more variety during matches
Sounds very reasonable actually! People want more variety, so weakening the most used perks and buffing the least used is a decent thingbto do.
@@mcr00kesdude didn’t say anything about buffing weaker one lol. also far easier to nerf perks than buff then from a balance standpoint. nerfing popular perks because they’re popular is fucking stupid
@@brusselseastside3546 Ones at the bottom of the pickrate would also be buffed to compensate
ooooorrr. we should buff perks that are downright useless? We shouldn't nerf perks that are picked alot souly because they are picked alot. This game is all about optimization everyone will always pick whatever the best combo will be. There shouldn't be such a high disparity between Good and Bad perks, and it implores more variety if you Buff bad perks.
@@alphyy3107 Both
I bring Deja Vu and resilience cause it's a pretty decent together, yellow bar go brrr
I feel like spirit kinda makes sense, she's hard to play yes, but most people don't play with a good headset or sound at all so phasing around loops is very strong, getting the hit before pallet drop/new survivors are scared to run away from the safety of the pallet
I'm impatiently waiting when Sadako will beat Skull Merchant in kill rate. Because they really are leaning towards making her a low to mid mmr destroyer. Also, considering how she can pretty much kill without hooks and dcs are removed from equation, then yeah, that migh actually be her kill rate. Which is insane (and I bet that with current version of her it won't really change).
Resilience making vaults more better and by default removing almost 9 seconds of gen progression on a gen is pretty good tbh because if you get a great skill check on a gen it just keeps adding a percentage of progression onto that gen from 9% so if you if 6 great skill checks now the gen is 15% less progression needed to complete. Combo that with adrenaline and hope and it's even more rewarding.
I've been using Lithe in my "main" build pretty much since I've started playing in like 2019 and I've always believed it to be to be the most versitile exhaustion perk. Depending on a map and your location on it, BL can become uselesss very fast, meanwhile there's pretty much no corner on any map where there isn't a window/potential dropped pallette. DH is obviously good but I'd say its' skill floor is higher than the other perks of the same category and it fits more to a particular playstyle. Sprint is good but again, imho, it's more restrictive because of the whole activation mechanic. Sure, you can say you don't *have* to walk everywhere but still, you do have to consider and sometimes sacrifice the Sprint use for time efficiency meanwhile Lithe is literally ready-to-use whenever I personally choose to use it.
The point about hooks is really the one that I've always wondered about. I've always thought targeting kill rates was too narrow in a game where many play for other objectives. Like, a 60% kill rate with 3x slowdown tunneling 24/7 isn't the same as a 60% kill rate with 1x slowdown just chasing whoever crosses your path. Hooks wouldn't tell the full story either, but they'd start to paint a little clearer picture I think.
The old rank system worked better than the mmr system and the best thing about is you could learn new killers at rank reset instead of how it is now where if your lucky you get your 1st match with them chill and after that good luck ti you😂
If they acknowledge the data is excessively broad why not present a few different filters on it for comparison? It would be far more useful if it showed these stats but with low/med/high mmr versions, different regions, or split into a few brackets of hours played. Do they lack the ability to split the data into more useful sets or are they too lazy?
Lithe was my go-to Exhaustion Perk while I played. Mostly because I could never get the Dead Hard timing down and Lithe was just straight up an unused Perk on some maps so it always just felt really super bad to run it and get no use from it. I'd use Head On when I was doing a stun Archive but rarely any other time. Sprint Burst was also something else I never felt right using.
15:06 My very first game of Survivor was with two other people who knew the game well. I was the weak link in things and our ability to communicate what was going on didn't really help much. I was able to say "I'm being camped, stay on gens" or "The solo is being camped, stay on gens" and some general things like "at main" but that was really it. It didn't get much better when I wasn't as new. So, yes, one hundred percent, it being a "pre-made" isn't the real factor in things it's just you have four people who are all decently good at the game playing together and their ability to communicate only helps in that it means they don't double up when not needed.
Xenomorph probably isn't super popular because of how stressful it can be. Bad control station spawns and the occasional jank tail hitbox can make it extremely stressful and annoying, aswell as how directly both your power is countered AND counters you regardless of being in your power or not. Your kit has BUILT IN motion tracking and hindered that you as the KILLER have to deal with, and it can all just make for an incredibly unfun playstyle to be robbed of a hit because a turret slowed you down, or just barely being out of range of a tail attack as a survivor makes a vault, or just phasing through them entirely.
Or because he is boring as heck. He's just like Chucky; an overtuned killer that basically plays itself. You don't hear gen sounds in tunnels anymore at least.
@@Antarctide Okay you have no idea what you're on about
As a survivor player, I believe the issue with Xenomorph is that their tail attack is too strong (especially with how frequently it's available), so what ends up happening is survivors absolutely _have_ to rely on turrets.
As a result, the Xeno player is constantly being blue-balled, which isn't enjoyable either (for most people).
Speaking as an Oceanic player, a lot of SEA players do tend to play more chase oriented a bit (lot) more selfishly/more for themselves, so when they're not being chased they just go off and reset by themselves. It's just the culture.
Resilience is useful for people with bad ping, and reduces the amount of Bluetooth hits which are frustrating
Just wondering why people still hate SM. I get the old SM with the 3 gen strat was awful, but what is wrong with the new one? I'm genuinely intrigued.
I think people are just traumatized, haha.
The counter play to her ability is lackluster.
Mind numbingly boring to play as and against. Drop a drone at a loop and rely on blood lust to get you a down.
I just don’t like her, her design is shit and her gameplay is a snooze fest and everyone, EVERYONE plays like assholes with her
a mix of trauma from the old one, playstyle of SM mains being usually toxic and just straight up the boring zoning power
The player survival rate doesn’t make sense to me. Like my brain says that the data was gathered incorrectly because how is a duo escape almost the same chance of escaping as a 4 man swf
And lithe is always in your back pocket. You can dummy tech and get value and decrease the chance of the pallet being broken. Shack it works well, etc. lithe I feel is just the safest exhaustion.
I personally was not surprised at all seeing skull merchant so high up considering that every Dull Merchant I faced got at least a 2k even if the survivors were not giving up.
I mean even otz waant sure what to say about her in his tierlist. He actually said that survivors have still some options in chase like standing still or crouch to avoid the scan lines. However he also disagreed with him a bit later saying that you might be able to sneak through the drones but if the killer comes you are forces to run. Really not used to otz making such a blunder but I also cant really blame him. Like what else was he supposed to say about dully without completly trash talking her.
From a killer point of view I tried to compare it with my hag since both are area controle killers right. However most peolpe would argue that hag can get an actual hit/down with her power immediately while dully cant.
However she can still shut down loops because you are going down quite quickly if you try to ignore the drown.
But why do we like chase hag but hate dully?
Well if hag sets up a trap she has to go through an animation in which she cant move at all. Dully can literally keep looping while passively deploying the drone. On top of that hag is a 4.4 movement speed killer which immediately buffs the hold w strat against a hag while dully is 4.6 at worst.
Other differences are:
Hags traps cover a smaller area. Hags traps can be completly removed or you can trigger them correctly preventing a hit. This forces the hag to waste time replacing the traps. Meanwhile dully does not have the same issue as her drones are deactivated only temporarily.
Her drones are actually able to damage survivors passively which is something hag doesn't even have a chance of happening at all.
So hags traps cover a smaller area and can be removed completly. This already forces a hag player to use their brains and place the traps not too obvious but still effectivly. A hag also needs to be smart about the area she plans on trapping because leaving that area might make a teleport impossible (range limit) hag is also pretty bad if you try to play her as a normal chase killers so she kinda requires experience and some skill overall. (Still many survivors dont even like hag )
Skully removes all the skill aspect and risk that hag players have to bear in mind.
Additionally she gets even more out of her drones (tracking, haste, broken, mending, undetecable, hindered)
A hag doesn't get anything of that.
And the best part about that is: as a dully player you dont even need to learn anything. You get all that for pressing a button.
All that happens passively.
Survivors are on the other hand forced to play extremly well and actually mind all that stuff.
If you consider all that it is really not surprising that she is the most hated killer.
However she also might not feel good to play as either because you have basically zero chance of expressing your skill outside of basic mindgames and even there the undetecable part might do the job for you.
I had no idea where tf u were goin with the whole Asain thing the first part of that sentence was sounding wild af 😂
I was really surprised to see Ghostface so high, bc I never go against him like ever.
Resilience is good. Shaving some seconds on gen repairs matters esp with the whole gen blocking meta with pain res, dead man's switch, grim embrace. So many times where I could have used a few seconds more to finish a gen when I did't have resilience and deja vu.
resilience is a good chase perk, but if you're using it for gen speed hyperfocus is WAY better.
Developer stats are almost identical to nightlight, with the difference that nightlight doesn't include low MMR bullshit like self-care being in the top 10. Thus, nightlight can now officially be considered an extremely accurate source.
Skull Merchant 70% kill rate, overall average dropped below 60% to 58.5%
One point I would make would be that if you join a full swf at high mmr, your survival rate will increase roughly 9% which is huge. (Edit over being solo q).
Doctor has one of the lowest kill rates because some people have bots or something playing him to farm bloodpoints. They just queue up, stand in spot and shock repeatedly and swing in place. He's last by a significant margin, so it has to be something like this.
I think otherwise he'd be higher/mid because he's also a killer that has 'mechanics' but it's only slow down and doesn't directly kill you (like say Pig).
Speed killers and stealth killers.
To be fair those are the most fun killer designs.
I see resilience being prevalent because of the combo with adrenaline being “do last gen as fast as possible don’t heal”
Which pisses me off when I run we’ll make it because people don’t want to be healed guh
Resil is super strong. The faster vault speed is the MFT effect. Seems like a small insignificant amount, but turns many hits into misses.
Lithe is pretty easy to explain - several maps have limited or no elevation at all so Balanced Landing is a pain in the backside to use (this is 100% Behaviour's fault, they could as a bare minimum add jumpable props like hay bales or whatever to a bunch of maps as a bandaid), Dead Hard appeals to a very specific kind of player (let's put it that way) and is much fiddlier, Sprint Burst is really obnoxious to use and it feels terrible either having to conserve it all the time or not having it when you need it. So Lithe is by default the most casual friendly exhaustion perk. I haven't bothered to use anything else since the DH nerf unless I was on a quest.
The only change I would like for swf is to just know they are swf before the match or even when the match starts just to know what il getting myself into
Yeah but they won't allow that because they know alot of killers would just dodge and it will hurt the game significantly
@@GregPiggot I know which sucks, people that dont know how to handle their emotions ruin everything for all of us. But at the same time would it be such a huge number of people lobby dodging? We wont know until we try it.
I also think the reason 4 man swf isn’t higher is because a lot of 4 man swfs are just 4 people having fun together trying to get flashlight saves and fun plays not sweating trying to win. Or at least that’s usually my experience with them so a lot of the time I end up winning as killer with like 3 gens left and also end up having a lot of fun since I’m always in chase.
However, a 4 man of good players all sweating to win with optimal builds is a nightmare to go against.
nothing's gonna save solo queue untill self care sits higher in popularity than bond
The reason surge had such a high usage rate is probably because of demo’s perks being basic perks for a while
My build is pretty meta then as I run perks 1,2, 4 and 5 for survivor. Resilience is decent because when injured and stacking with DJV, you are getting a 15% speed increase on your own. This is massive. My first few hundred hours I ran Self-Care and Botany Knowledge, but there are many times in a game where you just need to risk being injured, Self-Caring is not efficient for experienced killers. Also you can 99 the heal for Res unless its sloppy of course and that can help. The amount of times I have either fully healed from injured to clutch last gen with adrenaline, or took a hit just before popping it is untrue. It is a strong build. Windows is a great perk, it helps new starters, but is a universal perk for reasons you said, you can predict pathing where pallets still remain etc. I am surprised Dead Hard is not higher, in most lobbies I see it on 2+ people as killer.
If they included high MMR kill rates anything below A tier would plummet and A tier would be stabilize around 50-60% while S tiers (literally just blight and nurse and maybe spirit but not as much) would be like 70-80% or more. lol
The fact that the balance of the game is based on 40% survival rate and 4-man SWF shifts so much it almost goes to a 50/50 (on high MMR), shows a lot to me on how stressful is to play killer on high MMR, specially if you are not going full meta.
Right but high mmr only makes ~10% from dbd playerbase
We should note that why they won't buff/nerf certain things what brings buffing something that only help 10% of playerbase but 90% suffer more.
depending how you define it a almost 50% survival rate at high MMR is actually pretty wild. If you say it's a group statistic where it counts as a loss if even 1 dies it automatically means that at high MMR it's almost 50/50 if you can even kill 1 survivor as a killer against a 4 man SWF. You can also make an argument that that's the reason why they don't show kill rates at high MMR because SWF are more likely at high MMR and it would drop kill rates for some killers well under 50% and might push killers away from playing.
player enjoyment should be the number one concern and not whether data says something is balanced balance and fun are not necessarily synonymous which is why you see alot of people saying that esports and competitive gaming is killing multiplayer
Scott confirmed giga Scott
lithe is pretty much an always-use perk for me cause its a sprint burst that i dont have to think about. as long as i get 1 vault in a chase before i get hit then i get value from it, and i dont have to walk from gen to gen to avoid using it at an unoptimal time
00:30 im so sad Any Means Necesarry still hasnt caught up.
After all the buffs, its now essencially a Map-Large-Windows in terms of value. You can see where the chase is currently going by seeing all the dropped pallets are, and also know where NOT to go. Also big funny bonus :(
Id rather take alert for that info
I like Deja Vu to charge Blast Mine/Wiretap/Chemical Trap/Flashbang faster
I think Lithe's higher use rate isn't necessarily because people think Lithe is that good, and more because everyone and their great grandmas has Feng, so naturally, they use her perks more.
I have a few questions about those stats:
If they can somehow get killrate/escape rate _excluding_ DC games, then can they identify unalive on hook games or friendly Killers?
If they can, can they pinpoint the specific accounts where certain Killers are used and exclude them from those stats?
Why release stats that don't include the game-changing 7.5.0 update? The ill-thought-out new gen system and STBFL nerf _alone_ will skew those numbers (lower tier Killers less viable, Surge and STBFL will plummet, DMS and Grim Embrace will likely rise, Killer killrate and pickrate will drastically change etc.)? Those stats should have been released, and hopefully will be shown again, a few months after 7.5.0 to really showcase the impact.
Why not include high MMR killrate for each Killers (or at least an average)?
It's always nice to get a peak, however brief, into the official numbers though.
Hey Scott, do you find wesker or new billy more fun to play?
I run resilience as a wild card perk. Its just nice to have for when im injured in solo q. I normally run Windows, SB, Resilience, and adrenaline.
Scott’s mewing confirmed
Seeing those killer pick rates proves to me that the RNG gods hate me. I played 20 Survivor games last week and Blight was 10 of them. Nurse was 4, and the rest were Slinger and Chucky.
dude the faster vault speed on resil saves my ass all the time. OP perk.
I miss that 15% vault speed. Resilience alone is alright but the combo was so amazing and people slept on that.
But once you replace it, you fail very often and need to learn timing again, this is why i don't use perk like WoO/Resilience, i don't wan't to be addicted.
Instructions misunderstood, survivors get another base perk and we nerf pig again. We are also releasing a perk on survivor and killer that makes it easier for subtle hackers to hide their cheats.
With all due respect, when your take is that Bamboozle causes “brain rot” but windows and lithe don’t…. There might be some catering going on or at the very least some bias.
windows doesn't cause brain rot. that doesn't even make sense. you could definitely argue Lithe does though: "I see vault i take vault" vs Bamboozles "I see window i vault window"
I have higher ping so resilience stays on, I go down thru windows way too much without it.
When I just started playing this game one of the first killers I picked up was spirit and it was easy asf even when I was bad, so it makes sense why it's so high
Yep, a good head set, and you’ll 4k95% of the time.