I'm a long time dgn subscriber. I have no intentions of canceling my subscription. And I did not mind paying for usdgc separately. But to increase the overall cost, and then put multiple majors behind paywalls is very frustrating.
I was willing to pay a month’s sub to watch the European Open, but $12 seemed too much. (Bear in mind I don’t like live coverage-I much prefer next-day Jomez.)
Something that is not discussed in the slightest is the full blown reliance on unpaid volunteers to even put a product to market! If there was not 50+ people willing to put in 1-3, 12 hour days during the event, there would be no DGPT. Even the people who put in hundreds of hours to get courses ready and speak with municipalities to ensure permits and everything are taken care of, are all volunteers! Call me cynical, but a “business” that relies on that kind of labor force is a ticking clock…
The PGA. (ball golf) relies on volunteers as well. their events are simply too large to staff. they have an excellent network of local pros and golf clubs that make the magic happen. and i do not think anyone questions they are a legitimate business
I really appreciate the context, because I did not realize that! Granted I have to assume the “upper” level positions must have some sort of compensation, tournament directors, volunteer coordinators etc. Additionally, in the case of the majority of stops for the DGPT, the parks are public (or worst of all temporary) meaning that all changes, updates, and maintenance and mostly done by those volunteers (depending on arrangements with the parks departments). While the PGA plays on majority privately owned courses that have their own PAID staff, and likely bring on more temporary paid staff to ensure course quality.
Agreed. Juliana is a gem and Jenkins is not at all, to put it nicely. I turned on worlds yesterday and saw Terry Miller and Nate Doss. They both suck at commentary. They always have. Are they cheaper cause they certainly aren’t better. Ian and Philo are the best for the men. Nate Perkins needs to go too, badly. He’s just stupid and should never speak in front of a camera. Ian and Juliana are the best for the women.
Philo is boring to listen to and his voice sounds a lot like Nathan Queen. Philo would be better served on a smooth jazz station where people trying to go to sleep at night
I think the Pro Tour like many other companies we are seeing saw the boom and instead of being conservative about it, saw it as an opportunity to expand fast, and then hope that it sustained. I believe some manufacturers did the same and now we are seeing them have to back track faster than expected to save their business. People want to blame the economy and things, which there is some to that, but I would put more blame on just overall decisions based on projections from the pandemic. There had to be someone in the room that thought, "the bank accounts look great, but we have to be careful". That person didn't get enough say. I don't want to make it seem like it was greed and I don't think the people making the decisions are bad people, but the decisions were wrong. They looked too far in the future when times were booming. That is going to be the downfall of a lot of the companies like Lone Star. DGPT will survive, but don't expect it to get better anytime soon. This is where it levels out a bit. Time to go back to the roots of growing the sport from the roots and using what other entities are using to promote, influencers. We saw what Brodie did, how can we get more people who influence a lot of people to get involved? Until then, breathe. It will be a grind, but the sport is still growing, just takes a couple good minds behind the right programs to take it to the next level.
The acquisition of Jomez likely contributed as well. Having them independently run gave fans a “good guy” and a “bad guy” of disc golf conversation where some fans were on Jomez’s side and some on DGPT. Jomez seemed vibrant and growing and now they seem … stunned and complacent. New faces and ideas that are excited about the sport meed to be added to the Jomez wing.
They didn't buy Jomez, Jonathan signed an exclusivity contract with the pro tour and couldn't pay after the downturn, so he gave up Jomez to settle the contract.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics revised their estimates this year on employment, as they did previous years. This year's revision appears to be the largest in 15 years, with 818K less jobs. So in addition to the inflation we've all been experiencing, job growth is actually down. Check out CNBC's reporting on this today. Pretty crazy. Unfortunately what the DGPT and DGN is experiencing is part of a larger economic downturn.
@@cup_and_cone yep, and keep in mind statistical errors are in the range of a few percentage points. This is 25% less jobs than reported. There appears to be some cooking of the books with economic reporting, from our own government.
So it’s fair to say then that N. Ryan in his vitriolic, narcissistic pursuit of affirmation jeopardized not just the incomes of more than several people, but the enjoyment experience of fans around the globe, AND the actual growth of the sport itself. Do remember, he did on his instagram threaten to burn the tour to the ground unless his delusions were affirmed. So, mission accomplished? smh…
It's amazing how pressed you Nazis are over people you don't like existing. Trans people exist and they're not going anywhere. Deal with it. You'll have to destroy the world again like Nazis 100 years ago did if you want to change that
@@laysdong No one said anything about not wanting "Trans" people to exist.... And.. who's building??... And who's tearing down?? I think you have your facts mixed up about what you call a "Nazi".. Might want to look in the mirror 🪞
Imho, the biggest issue tour (and the whole spot) has is that it's functioning almost completely in a bubble. Most of the sponsors are from within the sport and they rely on the players to spend money that makes sponsoring worthwhile for them. As the contracts and sponsorships blew up during Covid times, also the tour grew bigger and fancier. After Covid the player counts haven't continued the same trends, which makes those investments less profitable than estimated. This is to say that just improving the media quality (or quantity) can't really create much more visibility because the target audience is very limited. You're not going to attract (enough) outside viewers by improving the broadcast. This also means that it's really tough to get sponsors from outside of the sport. As it stands, both contracts and tournament infrastructure go hand in hand with the player base and until that changes, we're not going to see huge leaps on either side.
On your first note. I couldn't agree more. It blows my mind that DG hasn't landed a bunch of sponsors like that. I am using this just as an example: A company like Coca Cola pays 30+ million to be just part of NASCAR. 1% of that would add almost $30k to every purse on the tour and would instantly change the sport and the outlook for other sponsors. This is how they should be going out to people and cold calling companies. 300k to coca cola or a company like them is a joke... If they understood what it would do for a sport like DG, someone would be on it. Just takes calling and making the right meetings with 40 of those level companies and land 2 and the sport is on a different level. No one is doing that. Its old school and would work.
There have been some sponsors here and there over the years, but it seems like they don't get the ROI they're looking for. Why did Keen stop advertising, for example? Did disc golfers actually go out and buy Keen shoes? Why was Adidas hesitant to give McBeth a decent sponsorship deal? Maybe potential sponsors do a market analysis and discover that most disc golfers are broke stoner losers? I think a huge factor is that most pro disc golfers are just struggling to eat and pay bills. To them, having name-brand attire is a status symbol. But a savvy, entrepreneurial disc golfer would not wear any branded clothing/shoes/gear - unless they were getting paid to do so!
This is making me so happy. I've always hated the motto "grow the sport" I don't want disc golf courses crowded. I preferred disc golf before the pandemic. It doesn't need to get big like basketball. I've never really been interested in the pro side. Maybe I'll watch some post produced footage when I'm bored, but I usually only check out the last round. I'd be perfectly happy if the disc golf tour collapsed and there was no professional side. I love the sport I don't care about people making money or making it their job or any of that s***.
It’s still surprising to me how “secondary” disc golf is as a professional sport. Things like darts and bowling get far more coverage. And even more fascinating is that PGA purses over sixty years ago were more robust than what we see in disc golf today (and those are in 1964 dollars). As entertaining as this sport is, even with the COVID growth, the professional version seems to be something of a novelty at best.
One thing is to improve the quality of their video production. If it were really ready for prime time we would see a heck of a lot more clips on the broadcast sports. One throw it against the wall idea is to work with all of the smaller video production outfits to share the load and provide more complete coverage. They can start with just the majors. Jomez covers lead and chase card, gatekeeper follows card 3, ace run follows card 4, etc. and then allow some time for a less slapdash post production. All the people doing the post production commentary are doing well, but it is still largely just TH-cam ready, not mainstream ready. Being more “industry standard” and less “I filmed this in my hotel room after playing a round in the rain so I could post it by midnight” will go a long way to taking the sport more mainstream in the public view. Mainstream means being taken more seriously by investors and advertisers. Also, they need to secure advertisers and sponsors that are not niche. Make a deal with one of the hotel chains to be “the official hotel of the DGPT”. Ford signage is all over the European events, why not here? Of course, one of the concessions they may have to make is to give a seat at the table for the creative teams from a big sponsor, which would be a good thing for the product, but perhaps not for the egos in the Bro Brigade.
Obviously, disc golf is an entertainment medium. There are many forms of entertainment competing for our eyeballs and dollars. To survive long-term, the sport has to concentrate on growing from the bottom. Encourage colleges to field teams. They are cheap and fun to watch. Some colleges alread have teams. This causes state high schools to begin fielding teams to feed the colleges, especially if there is a possibility of scholarships. After high schools, junior high or middle school teams and younger. This worked for ball golf. On the other end of the spectrum, increase the prestige of the variou tournaments. European Open is huge. We can do better. PS, I'm ticked off at loding Jonesboro Open. That was the event closest to my house.
It seems like the only one impacted by the costs of legal battles on the Female player policy, was the DGPT and the PDGA. My wonder is how well off is Natalie Ryan financially, cause it shows that NR kicked their butts in the legal realm and did not break a financial sweat.
That's what you get when the woke mob invades anything and everything they can. They've weaponized empathy to push their own political and personal agendas. Independent people who want to live and let live don't have the time or energy to fight illegitimate legal battles, but the woke collectivists hell bent on controlling everything are unfortunately more united than the majority of us.
@@vJackaRooit's all a conspiracy. It's hilarious how small minded people think that groups of people with literally zero power are somehow an all powerful force responsible for everything you don't like. Go outside occasionally
As I see it, the Jomez 'collapse' (for lack of better word) was indicating item within the market that on hindsight is easy to see, but at the time wasn't, which is the entire disc golf market was contracting, whereas most took it as something uniquely happening to Jomez. This stems from, as the video noted, the Covid boom, where it would've been very hard for any business to back off on investments (of the substantial variety) when media outside of disc golf is proclaiming it the fast growing sport in the world. The Natalie Ryan litigation was, on hindsight, very bad timing for that to play out the way it did. Here in tail end of 2024, that is closer to small issue, than the largest obstacle moving forward. How media in the sport frames the season is IMO the bigger deal. Worlds is the sport's biggest event and what the pros are clearly gunning for. I find the media for the event to be mostly fine, and isn't the issue I'm alluding to. What follows Worlds is playoffs and finale. In most other sports, pro players are gunning toward playoffs and participating in final championship. This is hyped up, with stakes made clear throughout the season. Here in 2024, less than 10 days from start of playoffs in disc golf, and most fans don't understand format exactly, who's about to be eliminated, and what are the stakes during and as result of playoffs. It doesn't help that Pro Tour has changed format of finale in significant ways in past 5 years alone. As one tuned into this aspect, 2024 strikes me as on the right path, and I hope it stays rather than abandoned due to critics pouncing on latest format having weak points. Because other media in the sport is limited (in several ways), it puts an untenable burden on Pro Tour to hype this event up, on its own. And so far they appear to barely be doing so, given that they too are still coming to term with format for end of season, playoffs. Thus, it is prone to not being ever settled as fans have shown up strongly disliking several aspects of the big events, with Worlds being latest example of this. Yet Worlds is not going away. The current DGPT final event format could go away as there isn't much buy-in, but is instead set up for negative fan bashing on the event. I also think AI (as it exists today) is factor in all this. How exactly? I'm not sure. But to not mention this as playing a huge role in moving forward might seem semi easy in 2024. By this time in 2025, I doubt anyone will be making that claim.
Swap Philo for Charlie. I’d rather have a Disc Golf legend than an Ultimate guy incapable of hiding his biases especially while covering FPO. #charlieisawful #iykyk
For any business, managing through economic cycles is a challenge. That is up, down or stable. Strategically, businesses are constantly faced with their current objectives of desired outcome. Meaning, are they harvesting a business for maximum profit (typically in a declining business), are they reaping returns in a more balanced fashion (for a more stable business) or are they attempting to grow a business with the understanding that current profits are sacrificed for potential future profits. Obviously, the DG tour has been in the latter mode for several years. They MUST now decide (forecast) what the potential of this market will be and plan accordingly. Which, is what they appear to be doing. RIF’s are extremely negative for all (particularly those who have lost their jobs). They are, unfortunately, essential if the business hopes to remain a going concern. I believe the 2020 leap was a false indicator of how fast the market could sustainably grow and the business couldn’t dissuade the “soft” new sector from being temporary. Therefore, I believe the Tour is making the sound decision to downsize to match the market… and stay out of costly legal battles.
I feel like the boom happened, the tour internalized almost all aspects of it’s business to capture all the market it could during a boom period with the expectation that it would continue and the business could be sold for a tidy profit. Then the market corrected and the tour is struggling to keep everything under its roof.
I cancelled after never being able to see content on-demand, and being frustrated by the "get this but not that" paywall structure. What a stupid idea.
Why on Earth did they choose to go into a legal battle with Natalie Ryan in the first place? And then relocate FPO? Seems like massive unforced errors . That's' going full Don Quijote at the sports expense. Extremely poor strategic thinking., regardless of where you stand on the issue.
Concentrate on few things in this order: what's essential, what brings the money in, what brings new customers with money in and what causes the costs. All the excess can and should go. Do they need to broadcast themselves or could they sell the stream? Cound they use contractors to produce the content? Do they need camera personnel on greens and teepads or could an elevated stationary (maybe remote controlled) camera do the job adequately? Well, whatever happens, I don't plan on paying for seeing disc golf when I can play it by myself. I don't buy streaming services in general, because I have my own life. I think sports coverage is an unnecessary but fun thing that just makes people to sit and watch instead of going out and play themselves, it's harmful in that sense. They should budget this thing to run on ad revenue, and because they show ads from the course and sponsor logos on players' clothes they should get a cut of that, they might, but IDK.
As a lawyer... I would like to know your opinion if the PDGA can make a specific LGBQTPO Division? What is stopping them from doing so? As a membership based association.. why can't something, like making this division, be put up for a vote? I honestly believe that if they did so.. and "forced" players who have certain "identities" (like they have "forced" Everyone Affiliated.. with changed or added rules) to play (Which still means "Inclusive") in that Division.. it would fix alot of the problems Disc Golf (as a pro sport and a product) are currently facing. Regardless of any other opinions I may have... I just want to know.. personally.. if this is possible?
My opinion.. "Females" need to be more specific about their "identity" as a "Female" (as in "Biological").. Not "Woman".. "girl".. or any other Title. "Female".. Clearly does not mean "Woman", specifically, Anymore.. at least to a "Court".. as weird as that may sound. "Female".. is a very specific Title. "Transgender Women" Have to have the specific Title "Transgender" next to their Identity. They cannot refer to themselves simply as "Female".. Only.
I would just make the LGBQTPO... That way there is no mistaking it. They could have their own purse money...footage..all their preferred pronouns used..etc. And then the Members and spectators are able to Freely decide whom they wish to watch and support or not.
I think JK is good (not great) as a commentator with some upside. Philo and Zoe are below average in the booth. Releasing them and bringing in fresh voices would be a big positive, and a sign the Pro Tour is actually listening to some of the fans' feedback.
mismanagement? Jeff spring said on-air interviews that he was against a rise in employment at the DGPT...may be he was right.....I believe the same thing happened to Jomez.....a potential to big of an increase in staff
It was fighting back. The fight was started by some dude who thinks he should be able to play against women in a professional sport (and the idiots who inexplicably support him).
The dgpt can’t fight the Left’s well funded lawfare army. So far the Orange Man is the only one that’s resisted and survived. The Left are ruthless and well funded.
Funny considering their little adventure into the culture war last year is a large part of the reason they’re facing financial hardship. Hope you’re happy
It's people like this guy that has the DGPT failing and he's too stupid to understand it. Only the weirdest of people give a fuck about that culture war nonsense but the DGPT and dipshits like him think spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight an obvious losing battle is a fantastic idea. You idiots made your bed now you get to enjoy the obvious outcome.
The stock market only did well in 2023 and early 2024 because of overvaluation of big cap stocks. They are now in a correction morphing into a crash and because of their weight in the market, they will drag everything down. When the tide goes out, you see who is swimming naked! When you cut staff, your product is not as good or inclusive. I wouldn't watch disc golf if it wasn't for the highlight rounds or edited rounds. i wouldn't spend time watching live disc golf when I could be outside playing it! That is one of the advantages of disc golf, almost anyone can play it, Disc golf will continue to grow even if the pro tour fails. There will still be touring pros even if the payouts shrink, Maybe disc golf will never be profitable to anyone other than disc manufacturers If we don't find a way to pay off the 34 trillion dollar national debt, maybe we will all go bankrupt!!!!.
The DGPT started a war they could not and would not win literally just to single out ONE player who happened to win a couple of events when the field played badly (who has no discernible quantifiable statistical advantage over any other top 15-20 FPO player who most of the time doesn't scrape the top 10...ie is no threat to top players competitively) amidst the larger right wing culture war against LGBTQ+ people in general, simply because of a few loud disrespectful voices that used this person as a scapegoat for their own declining skills and poor finishes...all the while whipping up hate, probably pushing away or certainly taking time and effort away from securing sponsors, and dividing the disc golf community to the point that there are now TERF groups wandering every event advertising and recruiting, comment section full of sludge and venom any time a certain player happens to show up on a card or even in check ins to the point that Jomez now just turns off comments for her rounds and the comments end up on the MPO videos, neverending threats to not watch rounds that involve her and cancel subscriptions...and even one round at MCO was delayed due to a death threat that required armed officers at entrances, bag checks and an armed escort for said player around the course for the remainder of the event...you fuck around and find out.
In a "legal" "Court"... If you use the wrong "language".. you will lose. Personally.. in this day and Age.. if I were a "Female"... I would ONLY refer to my identity as "Female"... And not "consent" to or use.. "Woman"... "Girl".. nor any other Title..(as crazy as that sounds). You have to use their own words against them in a "Court". Beat them at their own game..so to speak. The Fact.. that in Disc Golf.. it is the "F"...as in "Female".. PO......... Should make it that much easier for "Females" to distinguish themselves from any other "Identity" (in which they HAVE to use their "Titles" before their "Identity".. Legally!). It isn't "T"PO.. or "W"PO.. or "G"PO... It is FPO. "Trans" people Cannot refer to themselves as "Male" or "Female" ONLY! An LGBQTPO Division.. would fix the problem. And there is Nothing a "Court" could do about it. There would be NO "Exclusion" of ANYONE 😊 People would get to decide freely whom they watch and support or not. It is insane that it has come to this.
Same here if you wre born male you should nit be on fpo. I cancelled my subscription based on that and will never watch disc golf pro tour as long as they placate insanity.
PDGA is a complete failure. Must be replaced. First, build audience/following. Next, must find great sponsors. Period. But, without good courses designed for professional camera crews, it cannot possibly succeeded. Manufacturers must invest in courses and payouts, not in players. And, if men are allowed (by federal law) to complete against women, it’s over.
Transwomen do not belong in female divisions. The mistakes were fighting in California, instead of cancelling FPO there and not restructuring the tour to not have FPO events in similar states.
@@markdennyritner7851Natalie Ryan isn't even any good and you weirdos are willing to destroy the entire sport to exclude her The entire FPO is an inclusivity league. It doesn't make any money and barely anyone watches it. It's sad how much you weirdos want to push your religious nonsense into secular areas. Go to your church and do all the Nazi shit you want. Leave the rest of us alone
Wooewindfixer248 makes sense. I stopped watching even on Jomez on TH-cam. too many commercials and tired of hearing Big Sexy and Yulibarri. And the DGPT illiminated some of the great courses we loved watching,.
Why i see it is . DGPT wants to be bigger then it really is. Look at the veiwing number for tournaments they are alwas the same amount of views. Disc golf is a small underground sport. Just like Surfing, mountain bike racing. Etc. There just is not that much money to grow the sport . It needs to stay small and live within it means. Unfortunately.
I am wondering if maybe the entire "sport" of disc golf should be "community" owned like the Green Bay Packers do it? But maybe with some sort of a special twist? We certainly DO NOT want the global elite to be involved whatsoever in disc golf to any degree!! How do we protect the sport, and grow the sport simultaneously?
Philo can be good but needs a serous partner to bring more urgency to his chill personality in the booth. The tour central thing was a mess to a point it had to go.
I would never subscribe to DGN. Why would I do that when I can support local discgolfers simply by watching their TH-cam channels? DGN is a bloated waste, businessmen trying to make money on the backs of discgolfers. For now many of us play on free courses and love that our hobby/sport is open and unrestricted. The more companies that come on board to 'promote' our sport will drive up prices and push us to where every other corporate owned/controlled sport is today. Lastly, if the DGPT owners couldn't see that discgolf was unnaturally popular and growing during the pandemic, that MBA they have sure was a waste of money. But generally companies grow when they can, in order to gain assets, then in bad times make that money back by selling off those same assets. Sad too see that discgolf is becoming no different - hopefully it doesn't become just another pawn for those with the capital.
@@shannonjenkins2095the DGPT could have doubled the amount of money every woman who was ever beat by Natalie was given and they still would have come out hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead. The DGPT doesn't give a single fuck about the women who play for them, they only care about using the tour to help advance their dog shit political and religious opinions
I'm a long time dgn subscriber. I have no intentions of canceling my subscription. And I did not mind paying for usdgc separately. But to increase the overall cost, and then put multiple majors behind paywalls is very frustrating.
I was willing to pay a month’s sub to watch the European Open, but $12 seemed too much. (Bear in mind I don’t like live coverage-I much prefer next-day Jomez.)
Something that is not discussed in the slightest is the full blown reliance on unpaid volunteers to even put a product to market! If there was not 50+ people willing to put in 1-3, 12 hour days during the event, there would be no DGPT.
Even the people who put in hundreds of hours to get courses ready and speak with municipalities to ensure permits and everything are taken care of, are all volunteers!
Call me cynical, but a “business” that relies on that kind of labor force is a ticking clock…
The PGA. (ball golf) relies on volunteers as well. their events are simply too large to staff. they have an excellent network of local pros and golf clubs that make the magic happen. and i do not think anyone questions they are a legitimate business
I really appreciate the context, because I did not realize that!
Granted I have to assume the “upper” level positions must have some sort of compensation, tournament directors, volunteer coordinators etc.
Additionally, in the case of the majority of stops for the DGPT, the parks are public (or worst of all temporary) meaning that all changes, updates, and maintenance and mostly done by those volunteers (depending on arrangements with the parks departments). While the PGA plays on majority privately owned courses that have their own PAID staff, and likely bring on more temporary paid staff to ensure course quality.
Dropping Juliana Korver and keeping Val Jenkins is a MAJOR mistake. Losing Philo is just plain stupid.
I agree!
Agreed. Juliana is a gem and Jenkins is not at all, to put it nicely. I turned on worlds yesterday and saw Terry Miller and Nate Doss. They both suck at commentary. They always have. Are they cheaper cause they certainly aren’t better. Ian and Philo are the best for the men. Nate Perkins needs to go too, badly. He’s just stupid and should never speak in front of a camera. Ian and Juliana are the best for the women.
@@frisbeephil no, Philo is an all around loss
Philo is boring to listen to and his voice sounds a lot like Nathan Queen. Philo would be better served on a smooth jazz station where people trying to go to sleep at night
I think the Pro Tour like many other companies we are seeing saw the boom and instead of being conservative about it, saw it as an opportunity to expand fast, and then hope that it sustained. I believe some manufacturers did the same and now we are seeing them have to back track faster than expected to save their business.
People want to blame the economy and things, which there is some to that, but I would put more blame on just overall decisions based on projections from the pandemic. There had to be someone in the room that thought, "the bank accounts look great, but we have to be careful". That person didn't get enough say.
I don't want to make it seem like it was greed and I don't think the people making the decisions are bad people, but the decisions were wrong. They looked too far in the future when times were booming. That is going to be the downfall of a lot of the companies like Lone Star. DGPT will survive, but don't expect it to get better anytime soon. This is where it levels out a bit.
Time to go back to the roots of growing the sport from the roots and using what other entities are using to promote, influencers. We saw what Brodie did, how can we get more people who influence a lot of people to get involved? Until then, breathe. It will be a grind, but the sport is still growing, just takes a couple good minds behind the right programs to take it to the next level.
The acquisition of Jomez likely contributed as well. Having them independently run gave fans a “good guy” and a “bad guy” of disc golf conversation where some fans were on Jomez’s side and some on DGPT. Jomez seemed vibrant and growing and now they seem … stunned and complacent. New faces and ideas that are excited about the sport meed to be added to the Jomez wing.
Buying Jomez seemed like a big misstep... They tied up all that capital and have to foot the bill when Jomez was giving it all for free.
Dealing with Jomez was a complete nightmare. They have no skin in the game and are going through the motions.
They didn't buy Jomez, Jonathan signed an exclusivity contract with the pro tour and couldn't pay after the downturn, so he gave up Jomez to settle the contract.
@@pbgamble woah….
The Bureau of Labor Statistics revised their estimates this year on employment, as they did previous years. This year's revision appears to be the largest in 15 years, with 818K less jobs. So in addition to the inflation we've all been experiencing, job growth is actually down. Check out CNBC's reporting on this today. Pretty crazy. Unfortunately what the DGPT and DGN is experiencing is part of a larger economic downturn.
Good thing we're average about 2 million new immigrants a year (legal and illegal) that are willing to take those very few jobs for less money.
@@cup_and_cone yep, and keep in mind statistical errors are in the range of a few percentage points. This is 25% less jobs than reported. There appears to be some cooking of the books with economic reporting, from our own government.
@@NickCarroll Election season. No one wants to admit how bad the economy is and interest rates aren't coming down.
@@cup_and_conebest economy in my 40 years on earth. Maybe turn off the TV and go outside for a change
@@laysdong By what metric?
The Udisc decision is making a lot more sense now too...
Great video, Chris! To me, this has been your best and most informative one yet. Thanks for providing this info!
So it’s fair to say then that N. Ryan in his vitriolic, narcissistic pursuit of affirmation jeopardized not just the incomes of more than several people, but the enjoyment experience of fans around the globe, AND the actual growth of the sport itself. Do remember, he did on his instagram threaten to burn the tour to the ground unless his delusions were affirmed. So, mission accomplished? smh…
It's amazing how pressed you Nazis are over people you don't like existing.
Trans people exist and they're not going anywhere. Deal with it. You'll have to destroy the world again like Nazis 100 years ago did if you want to change that
@@laysdong No one said anything about not wanting "Trans" people to exist....
And.. who's building??... And who's tearing down??
I think you have your facts mixed up about what you call a "Nazi"..
Might want to look in the mirror 🪞
Imho, the biggest issue tour (and the whole spot) has is that it's functioning almost completely in a bubble. Most of the sponsors are from within the sport and they rely on the players to spend money that makes sponsoring worthwhile for them. As the contracts and sponsorships blew up during Covid times, also the tour grew bigger and fancier. After Covid the player counts haven't continued the same trends, which makes those investments less profitable than estimated.
This is to say that just improving the media quality (or quantity) can't really create much more visibility because the target audience is very limited. You're not going to attract (enough) outside viewers by improving the broadcast. This also means that it's really tough to get sponsors from outside of the sport. As it stands, both contracts and tournament infrastructure go hand in hand with the player base and until that changes, we're not going to see huge leaps on either side.
On your first note. I couldn't agree more. It blows my mind that DG hasn't landed a bunch of sponsors like that. I am using this just as an example: A company like Coca Cola pays 30+ million to be just part of NASCAR. 1% of that would add almost $30k to every purse on the tour and would instantly change the sport and the outlook for other sponsors. This is how they should be going out to people and cold calling companies. 300k to coca cola or a company like them is a joke... If they understood what it would do for a sport like DG, someone would be on it. Just takes calling and making the right meetings with 40 of those level companies and land 2 and the sport is on a different level. No one is doing that. Its old school and would work.
There have been some sponsors here and there over the years, but it seems like they don't get the ROI they're looking for. Why did Keen stop advertising, for example? Did disc golfers actually go out and buy Keen shoes? Why was Adidas hesitant to give McBeth a decent sponsorship deal? Maybe potential sponsors do a market analysis and discover that most disc golfers are broke stoner losers?
I think a huge factor is that most pro disc golfers are just struggling to eat and pay bills. To them, having name-brand attire is a status symbol. But a savvy, entrepreneurial disc golfer would not wear any branded clothing/shoes/gear - unless they were getting paid to do so!
I personally appreciate Philo in the booth way more than the king of unnecessary and unjustified hyperbole Terry
This is making me so happy. I've always hated the motto "grow the sport" I don't want disc golf courses crowded. I preferred disc golf before the pandemic. It doesn't need to get big like basketball. I've never really been interested in the pro side. Maybe I'll watch some post produced footage when I'm bored, but I usually only check out the last round. I'd be perfectly happy if the disc golf tour collapsed and there was no professional side. I love the sport I don't care about people making money or making it their job or any of that s***.
It’s still surprising to me how “secondary” disc golf is as a professional sport. Things like darts and bowling get far more coverage. And even more fascinating is that PGA purses over sixty years ago were more robust than what we see in disc golf today (and those are in 1964 dollars). As entertaining as this sport is, even with the COVID growth, the professional version seems to be something of a novelty at best.
One thing is to improve the quality of their video production. If it were really ready for prime time we would see a heck of a lot more clips on the broadcast sports. One throw it against the wall idea is to work with all of the smaller video production outfits to share the load and provide more complete coverage. They can start with just the majors. Jomez covers lead and chase card, gatekeeper follows card 3, ace run follows card 4, etc. and then allow some time for a less slapdash post production. All the people doing the post production commentary are doing well, but it is still largely just TH-cam ready, not mainstream ready.
Being more “industry standard” and less “I filmed this in my hotel room after playing a round in the rain so I could post it by midnight” will go a long way to taking the sport more mainstream in the public view. Mainstream means being taken more seriously by investors and advertisers.
Also, they need to secure advertisers and sponsors that are not niche. Make a deal with one of the hotel chains to be “the official hotel of the DGPT”. Ford signage is all over the European events, why not here? Of course, one of the concessions they may have to make is to give a seat at the table for the creative teams from a big sponsor, which would be a good thing for the product, but perhaps not for the egos in the Bro Brigade.
Obviously, disc golf is an entertainment medium. There are many forms of entertainment competing for our eyeballs and dollars. To survive long-term, the sport has to concentrate on growing from the bottom. Encourage colleges to field teams. They are cheap and fun to watch. Some colleges alread have teams. This causes state high schools to begin fielding teams to feed the colleges, especially if there is a possibility of scholarships. After high schools, junior high or middle school teams and younger. This worked for ball golf. On the other end of the spectrum, increase the prestige of the variou tournaments. European Open is huge. We can do better. PS, I'm ticked off at loding Jonesboro Open. That was the event closest to my house.
It seems like the only one impacted by the costs of legal battles on the Female player policy, was the DGPT and the PDGA. My wonder is how well off is Natalie Ryan financially, cause it shows that NR kicked their butts in the legal realm and did not break a financial sweat.
It's been said on this channel that NR's lawyer worked pro-bono. It was covered, I think, in the video regarding the OTB open lawsuit
Ryan is propped up by the lgbtq lawfare army.
That's what you get when the woke mob invades anything and everything they can. They've weaponized empathy to push their own political and personal agendas. Independent people who want to live and let live don't have the time or energy to fight illegitimate legal battles, but the woke collectivists hell bent on controlling everything are unfortunately more united than the majority of us.
What's better....a financially healthy sport for hundreds of players or appeasing one player with mental health issues?
@@vJackaRooit's all a conspiracy.
It's hilarious how small minded people think that groups of people with literally zero power are somehow an all powerful force responsible for everything you don't like.
Go outside occasionally
Keep the bros with the bros bro
As I see it, the Jomez 'collapse' (for lack of better word) was indicating item within the market that on hindsight is easy to see, but at the time wasn't, which is the entire disc golf market was contracting, whereas most took it as something uniquely happening to Jomez. This stems from, as the video noted, the Covid boom, where it would've been very hard for any business to back off on investments (of the substantial variety) when media outside of disc golf is proclaiming it the fast growing sport in the world.
The Natalie Ryan litigation was, on hindsight, very bad timing for that to play out the way it did. Here in tail end of 2024, that is closer to small issue, than the largest obstacle moving forward.
How media in the sport frames the season is IMO the bigger deal. Worlds is the sport's biggest event and what the pros are clearly gunning for. I find the media for the event to be mostly fine, and isn't the issue I'm alluding to. What follows Worlds is playoffs and finale. In most other sports, pro players are gunning toward playoffs and participating in final championship. This is hyped up, with stakes made clear throughout the season. Here in 2024, less than 10 days from start of playoffs in disc golf, and most fans don't understand format exactly, who's about to be eliminated, and what are the stakes during and as result of playoffs. It doesn't help that Pro Tour has changed format of finale in significant ways in past 5 years alone. As one tuned into this aspect, 2024 strikes me as on the right path, and I hope it stays rather than abandoned due to critics pouncing on latest format having weak points. Because other media in the sport is limited (in several ways), it puts an untenable burden on Pro Tour to hype this event up, on its own. And so far they appear to barely be doing so, given that they too are still coming to term with format for end of season, playoffs. Thus, it is prone to not being ever settled as fans have shown up strongly disliking several aspects of the big events, with Worlds being latest example of this. Yet Worlds is not going away. The current DGPT final event format could go away as there isn't much buy-in, but is instead set up for negative fan bashing on the event.
I also think AI (as it exists today) is factor in all this. How exactly? I'm not sure. But to not mention this as playing a huge role in moving forward might seem semi easy in 2024. By this time in 2025, I doubt anyone will be making that claim.
Swap Philo for Charlie. I’d rather have a Disc Golf legend than an Ultimate guy incapable of hiding his biases especially while covering FPO. #charlieisawful #iykyk
For any business, managing through economic cycles is a challenge. That is up, down or stable. Strategically, businesses are constantly faced with their current objectives of desired outcome. Meaning, are they harvesting a business for maximum profit (typically in a declining business), are they reaping returns in a more balanced fashion (for a more stable business) or are they attempting to grow a business with the understanding that current profits are sacrificed for potential future profits. Obviously, the DG tour has been in the latter mode for several years. They MUST now decide (forecast) what the potential of this market will be and plan accordingly. Which, is what they appear to be doing. RIF’s are extremely negative for all (particularly those who have lost their jobs). They are, unfortunately, essential if the business hopes to remain a going concern. I believe the 2020 leap was a false indicator of how fast the market could sustainably grow and the business couldn’t dissuade the “soft” new sector from being temporary. Therefore, I believe the Tour is making the sound decision to downsize to match the market… and stay out of costly legal battles.
I'd be really interested in seeing subscription numbers...I think there was an inflection point, and I think I know when it was, and why 😎
I feel like the boom happened, the tour internalized almost all aspects of it’s business to capture all the market it could during a boom period with the expectation that it would continue and the business could be sold for a tidy profit. Then the market corrected and the tour is struggling to keep everything under its roof.
I cancelled after never being able to see content on-demand, and being frustrated by the "get this but not that" paywall structure. What a stupid idea.
Is Ian Anderson still employed with DGPT?
Lmao so Ryan said if I can’t do it I’m going to try to mess it up for everybody else 🤦🏽♂️
Why on Earth did they choose to go into a legal battle with Natalie Ryan in the first place? And then relocate FPO? Seems like massive unforced errors . That's' going full Don Quijote at the sports expense. Extremely poor strategic thinking., regardless of where you stand on the issue.
Philo and Zoey are both great.
Concentrate on few things in this order: what's essential, what brings the money in, what brings new customers with money in and what causes the costs. All the excess can and should go. Do they need to broadcast themselves or could they sell the stream? Cound they use contractors to produce the content? Do they need camera personnel on greens and teepads or could an elevated stationary (maybe remote controlled) camera do the job adequately? Well, whatever happens, I don't plan on paying for seeing disc golf when I can play it by myself. I don't buy streaming services in general, because I have my own life. I think sports coverage is an unnecessary but fun thing that just makes people to sit and watch instead of going out and play themselves, it's harmful in that sense. They should budget this thing to run on ad revenue, and because they show ads from the course and sponsor logos on players' clothes they should get a cut of that, they might, but IDK.
As a lawyer... I would like to know your opinion if the PDGA can make a specific LGBQTPO Division? What is stopping them from doing so? As a membership based association.. why can't something, like making this division, be put up for a vote? I honestly believe that if they did so.. and "forced" players who have certain "identities" (like they have "forced" Everyone Affiliated.. with changed or added rules) to play (Which still means "Inclusive") in that Division.. it would fix alot of the problems Disc Golf (as a pro sport and a product) are currently facing. Regardless of any other opinions I may have... I just want to know.. personally.. if this is possible?
Or just a TPO division- NBPO (non binary). But yes something needs to change to protect actual women and girls.
My opinion.. "Females" need to be more specific about their "identity" as a "Female" (as in "Biological").. Not "Woman".. "girl".. or any other Title. "Female".. Clearly does not mean "Woman", specifically, Anymore.. at least to a "Court".. as weird as that may sound. "Female".. is a very specific Title. "Transgender Women" Have to have the specific Title "Transgender" next to their Identity. They cannot refer to themselves simply as "Female".. Only.
I would just make the LGBQTPO... That way there is no mistaking it. They could have their own purse money...footage..all their preferred pronouns used..etc. And then the Members and spectators are able to Freely decide whom they wish to watch and support or not.
Separate but equal… wonder if this has been tried before 🤔
"Division".. in a sport like Disc Golf.. still means "Inclusive"... If that wasn't the case... There should be no FPO at all!... Only MPO.
I think JK is good (not great) as a commentator with some upside.
Philo and Zoe are below average in the booth. Releasing them and bringing in fresh voices would be a big positive, and a sign the Pro Tour is actually listening to some of the fans' feedback.
mismanagement? Jeff spring said on-air interviews that he was against a rise in employment at the DGPT...may be he was right.....I believe the same thing happened to Jomez.....a potential to big of an increase in staff
BLAME PICKLE BALL!!
Always
Fighting the culture war is more important than growing the sport or making money for the DGPT. This is what you all wanted, don't comllain now.
It was fighting back. The fight was started by some dude who thinks he should be able to play against women in a professional sport (and the idiots who inexplicably support him).
*him
Anderson Ronald Thomas Lisa Perez Michael
I lost interest and canceled all my subscriptions and memberships once they gave up on keeping men off the women's tour.
The dgpt can’t fight the Left’s well funded lawfare army. So far the Orange Man is the only one that’s resisted and survived. The Left are ruthless and well funded.
Funny considering their little adventure into the culture war last year is a large part of the reason they’re facing financial hardship. Hope you’re happy
It's people like this guy that has the DGPT failing and he's too stupid to understand it.
Only the weirdest of people give a fuck about that culture war nonsense but the DGPT and dipshits like him think spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight an obvious losing battle is a fantastic idea.
You idiots made your bed now you get to enjoy the obvious outcome.
Why is no one blaming Mr Ryan?
That goes a long way towards making the tour more equitable for women. Good job bro.
They laughed when we said we'd walk...
I remember.. lol.. I guess they thought we would just forget.. and let bygones be bygones. Who's laughing now? 🙂
Didn't they put jomez out of business
The stock market only did well in 2023 and early 2024 because of overvaluation of big cap stocks. They are now in a correction morphing into a crash and because of their weight in the market, they will drag everything down. When the tide goes out, you see who is swimming naked! When you cut staff, your product is not as good or inclusive. I wouldn't watch disc golf if it wasn't for the highlight rounds or edited rounds. i wouldn't spend time watching live disc golf when I could be outside playing it! That is one of the advantages of disc golf, almost anyone can play it, Disc golf will continue to grow even if the pro tour fails. There will still be touring pros even if the payouts shrink, Maybe disc golf will never be profitable to anyone other than disc manufacturers If we don't find a way to pay off the 34 trillion dollar national debt, maybe we will all go bankrupt!!!!.
The DGPT started a war they could not and would not win literally just to single out ONE player who happened to win a couple of events when the field played badly (who has no discernible quantifiable statistical advantage over any other top 15-20 FPO player who most of the time doesn't scrape the top 10...ie is no threat to top players competitively) amidst the larger right wing culture war against LGBTQ+ people in general, simply because of a few loud disrespectful voices that used this person as a scapegoat for their own declining skills and poor finishes...all the while whipping up hate, probably pushing away or certainly taking time and effort away from securing sponsors, and dividing the disc golf community to the point that there are now TERF groups wandering every event advertising and recruiting, comment section full of sludge and venom any time a certain player happens to show up on a card or even in check ins to the point that Jomez now just turns off comments for her rounds and the comments end up on the MPO videos, neverending threats to not watch rounds that involve her and cancel subscriptions...and even one round at MCO was delayed due to a death threat that required armed officers at entrances, bag checks and an armed escort for said player around the course for the remainder of the event...you fuck around and find out.
Well having to fight legally for women to only play other female born competitors thanks allot dudes in fpo
In a "legal" "Court"... If you use the wrong "language".. you will lose. Personally.. in this day and Age.. if I were a "Female"... I would ONLY refer to my identity as "Female"... And not "consent" to or use.. "Woman"... "Girl".. nor any other Title..(as crazy as that sounds). You have to use their own words against them in a "Court". Beat them at their own game..so to speak. The Fact.. that in Disc Golf.. it is the "F"...as in "Female".. PO......... Should make it that much easier for "Females" to distinguish themselves from any other "Identity"
(in which they HAVE to use their "Titles" before their "Identity".. Legally!). It isn't "T"PO.. or "W"PO.. or "G"PO... It is FPO. "Trans" people Cannot refer to themselves as "Male" or "Female" ONLY! An LGBQTPO Division.. would fix the problem. And there is Nothing a "Court" could do about it. There would be NO "Exclusion" of ANYONE 😊 People would get to decide freely whom they watch and support or not. It is insane that it has come to this.
Same here if you wre born male you should nit be on fpo. I cancelled my subscription based on that and will never watch disc golf pro tour as long as they placate insanity.
PDGA is a complete failure. Must be replaced. First, build audience/following. Next, must find great sponsors. Period.
But, without good courses designed for professional camera crews, it cannot possibly succeeded. Manufacturers must invest in courses and payouts, not in players. And, if men are allowed (by federal law) to complete against women, it’s over.
Citing bigoted sources (The opinion of Shrier) as justification for restricting divisions turned out to be an expensive decision.
Transwomen do not belong in female divisions. The mistakes were fighting in California, instead of cancelling FPO there and not restructuring the tour to not have FPO events in similar states.
@@markdennyritner7851Natalie Ryan isn't even any good and you weirdos are willing to destroy the entire sport to exclude her
The entire FPO is an inclusivity league. It doesn't make any money and barely anyone watches it.
It's sad how much you weirdos want to push your religious nonsense into secular areas. Go to your church and do all the Nazi shit you want. Leave the rest of us alone
Wooewindfixer248 makes sense. I stopped watching even on Jomez on TH-cam. too many commercials and tired of hearing Big Sexy and Yulibarri. And the DGPT illiminated some of the great courses we loved watching,.
Well they lost out on a bunch of super chats by banning people from their live stream chats BEFORE releasing a social media policy
Why i see it is . DGPT wants to be bigger then it really is. Look at the veiwing number for tournaments they are alwas the same amount of views. Disc golf is a small underground sport. Just like Surfing, mountain bike racing. Etc. There just is not that much money to grow the sport . It needs to stay small and live within it means. Unfortunately.
I am wondering if maybe the entire "sport" of disc golf should be "community" owned like the Green Bay Packers do it? But maybe with some sort of a special twist? We certainly DO NOT want the global elite to be involved whatsoever in disc golf to any degree!! How do we protect the sport, and grow the sport simultaneously?
Philo can be good but needs a serous partner to bring more urgency to his chill personality in the booth. The tour central thing was a mess to a point it had to go.
I would never subscribe to DGN. Why would I do that when I can support local discgolfers simply by watching their TH-cam channels? DGN is a bloated waste, businessmen trying to make money on the backs of discgolfers. For now many of us play on free courses and love that our hobby/sport is open and unrestricted. The more companies that come on board to 'promote' our sport will drive up prices and push us to where every other corporate owned/controlled sport is today. Lastly, if the DGPT owners couldn't see that discgolf was unnaturally popular and growing during the pandemic, that MBA they have sure was a waste of money. But generally companies grow when they can, in order to gain assets, then in bad times make that money back by selling off those same assets. Sad too see that discgolf is becoming no different - hopefully it doesn't become just another pawn for those with the capital.
Alot of people got into disc golf because of Paul Mcbeth
A lot of the disc's are round.
Well, that solves the problem.
@jerryalford6265 I thought this was where you posted the obvious.
And many cancelled subscritions as well as their time and attention because of Ryan Natalie
@@shannonjenkins2095the DGPT could have doubled the amount of money every woman who was ever beat by Natalie was given and they still would have come out hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead.
The DGPT doesn't give a single fuck about the women who play for them, they only care about using the tour to help advance their dog shit political and religious opinions
Won't play free final round like everyone else does. Get off your lazy asses and get sponsors and stop expecting viewers to fund your lifestyle