Loving all the comments, feedback and suggestions! We will do our best gather everyone's suggestions and combine that with a few conversations we've had with some experts since the dyno session. It certainly feels like there's more power in her! Hoping we can find some time to make the tweaks and fixes and give it another go on the dyno! Get out in the shop and get your work done!
I have a 40-year-old sales brochure for the Paxton supercharger. It clearly shows and provides a large intake box that completely surrounds the carburetor. Instead of lots of pressure going into the air horn while the rest of the carb is sensing normal atmospheric pressure, the entire carb is normalized and fed by the same high-pressure air. Also, such an arrangement enables teh carb to take in air as it wants and not by turbulent airflow coming in from one direction. With a large airbox, the carb will meter as normal and not push fuel backwards because of the pressure differences.
I watched an "Eric the Car Guy" video where he turbocharged an engine. The power was off. He used a similar carb "hat" to the one you are using. Turns out, that was his issue. When he swapped it out for a different one, the lost power was found again. Good luck.
I usually block off the internal passage for the power valve and drill the carb for an external vac feed. Run it and drill the passeges for the power valve for added fuel. It works out well for me. Vac signal comes from the intake manifold where the air is less turbulent so the power valve can be consistent.
Australian Valiants of that year used a holley single barrel. Carters were used on late 60’s Valiants. Holley 350 would be a minimum. Edlebrock 600 works great
On a blow through carb setup, the hat on the carb can make a huge difference. It should be designed to give the carb as smooth an air flow as possible. Turbulence can really mess up the jetting. Ask me how I know. 🙂
I have a 40-year-old sales brochure for the Paxton supercharger. It clearly shows and provides a large intake box that completely surrounds the carburetor. Instead of lots of pressure going into the air horn while the rest of the carb is sensing normal atmospheric pressure, the entire carb is normalized and fed by the same high-pressure air. Also, such an arrangement enables teh carb to take in air as it wants and not by turbulent airflow coming in from one direction. With a large airbox, the carb will meter as normal and not push fuel backwards because of the pressure differences.
@@karlh6700 air should go down the carb if i t goes across the carb no happy there are some carbhats out there that guide the air down better than the once they used theres alot of extra work you need to do to a blow through setup
It wasn't until I got rid of my blow through carb system on my slant six until I learned that having the inlet Hat like yours sitting 45 degrees to the metering block really messes with the signal to the air bleeds. I drove around with mine rich all the time so on the top end it wouldn't lean out. For the record, once I built a custom port injection EFI system with coil near plug ignition control, I quit being disappointed. Also allowed me to just block off the pump and distributer openings to clean up the side. Even the EFI sniper that looks like a carb doesn't work as well as people hope when they attempt to boost them.
Yep dead on and Iv boosted a lot of carbed things blow through. Honestly motorcycle carbs are the best in everyway except you have to sync them but you get cheap itbs and better atomization than efi and most are pretty friendly in a box with a pitote tube to whatever boost you wanna run. They are really finicky about base pressure though.
*Davin!* There is an entire Mopar sub-culture out there who have spent decades perfecting racing the slant six; tons of documentation out there on what works and what doesn't on that weird little engine. Me, I've never had a lot of interest in them - but I respect the hell out of the engines' durability and it's often mentioned in this or that engineers' "top 10" list of all-time designs. Now, why anyone would want to hop them up, I dunno....🙂 That carb hat isn't doing you any favors Davin, that's for sure. A hell of a choking point there. Always great to see *Davin* on the channel! - Ed on the Ridge
Hate to see anyone struggling, but i had faith yall would get it, to be honest it is nice to know its not only us mere mortals that find ourselves scratching our heads from time to time. Love your work bubba, your attention to detail in your builds and videography is amazing.
Yep, but it does require a rear wheel drive configuration. Due to design constraints a straight six (or eight) is not practical for front wheel drive, though Volvo tried it for a while Fortunately the I-6 continues and new ones are being added. Ford could use an I-6 in the Mustang, there is plenty of room in that long engine bay.
My slant runs a single pte6262 turbo but still blow through like this. I’ve had to run vent tube extensions or else it’s undrivable lean despite having massive jets front and rear. I also run the extreme velocity carb hat works great. My power valve is boost referenced as well my fuel pressure rises at a 1:1 ratio with boost.
Always loved the slant 6. A friend's dad had 2 back in the 70s. He said, sonny, all you gotta do is change the oil, check the points, put a set of plugs in once in a while, and a slant 6 will last forever.
That's not bad. Plenty of fun there and not a cookie cutter LS. You didn't do many upgrades to it. Boost is a measure of restriction so you are fighting the flow of a stock head/intake/exhaust. I'm expecting in race mode a reliable 1200 HP out of my Chevy I6 292, 6-71 blown nitrous with a Ryan Falconer V-12 head 340I/220E. It's a drag and drive build. Thank you for your time.
We tried 'blow through' setups back in the pre-FI days......and they were universally failures in driveability. I always suspected that putting the air flow through a 'pre-test' ahead of the manifold/port/valves introduced weird harmonics and currants which only mutiplied in the manifold. 'Flow' then had to reconfigure itself before heading down the runners. Big time 'stutter' induced....
Love the slant motors. Many many viewers are giving you some good advice, I hope there's a follow up video with it running properly. Well done. Cheers guys 😊
Best engine Mopar ever made. You just can’t kill it. I drove my 69 Dart without any coolant till the motor quit. I left it cool, added water and good to go. Got up for work, freeze plugs laying on the ground. Dug the ice out and reinstalled the plugs, removed the fan belt and off to work I went. I was young, broke and made it work.
Oh man... I LOVE so much watching and Hearing an inline 6 supercharged.. we need to appreciate more this kind of things that people don't make commonly and Im VERY thankful i can enjoy it here guys, thank you! Hope to see this engine again in the dyno with some things figured it out, wouldn't surprise me that this baby is has more like 400hp... btw 343hp is a Great power for this type for engine with just 8 psi, i wish i could have this in my car
Out of curiosity, why not swap the carb for something like Holley or Edlebrocks EFI system? You'd still have the look of the carb, but since that carb hat is probably causing issues with fueling, you'd eliminate that issue and see more power
I ran across someone who really is a specialist in the slant 6. I don't remember his name right off, but he does some amazing things with them! He told the full history of the slant 6, and he had a dragster that put out some AMAZING power!
The Leaning Tower of Power! My High School history teacher drove a 20 year old Dart powered by one of these. He used to joke that "the sun would dim", and that "tides across the Earth would rise and fall" when he started it. My Dads John Deere oat swather also had a sidehill six on it. It must have been defective. I never seen the sun dim when he started it.
@craigbowley6783 ask,.iirc, Steve Dulcich about /6 Baracuda giveaway back in '99. Dropped a close 20-second car down into the 15s just by working on that engine in normally aspirated mode. If it had had a posi rear and an electric fuel pump, it would've been even faster. You can also ask Uncle Tony about the work he did on Plan Z. He took everything he learned from his street years up through his nitro years and put it toward the leaning tower of power.
So take away in my book is that even a engine builder, that is really good at doing it, still learns something! Keep up the good work guys! If you aint workin and learnin its time to call it a day!
Definately agree with a few here. The carb has to be specifically setup for boost with a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator otherwise it struggles. Engine masters did a lot of work with blow through carbs.
My first car back in the mid eighties was a 65 Dodge Dart 270 2 door post with the 225 slant six and the torqueflite column shifted automatic. Surprisingly peppy as I remember even in stock form. Would be fun to acquire another A body Mopar and spice up its leaning tower of power.
Back in the 90's I built up a slant 6 in an old 1978 Plymouth Volare. Ugly 2 door, looked ratty so I left it like that. Under the hood was a different story. I cast my own intake and put a 650 Holley atop a small Roots Blower. Every run, it had to have something re tuned, took 5 months to get into anything resembling consistency but once it got there... it was all about sit down, shut up and hang on. I eventually got it to 385 HP to the rear with the help of a little bit of NO2 and then took it racing in Phoenix where it turned a lot screwed up looks, Velocity stack with no filter on the left side of the hood. Suddenly my ratty looking old Plymouth was a popular ride. This is the first in a long while that I've ever seen someone else tackle this engine with this much gusto. Curious to know what's next for it?
ok, on to Dead Dodge Garage's attempt at a turbo screaming tower of power. As much as I love the slant 6, I am always amused by folks, who know better, trying to make them a power house! Does make for entertaining content.
I think those stock manifolds have horrible distribution, the back pulse comes into the plenum and janks up the flow to the other runners. My advice would be to put an Aussie speed manifold on it made in Australia, and add a 2 inch spacer block and then an anti-reversion plate from Spier Race Heads. Then maybe try a different hat. Kind regards. Shane the mechanic from Australia.
@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt No, but we got the slant 6. The 245 was also made in 215 and 265ci. It was a engine designed in Canada by the Chrysler Canada truck division. The original was a full hemi, but in Australia we shaved the head down to make a 35% hemi chamber. This made the Australian 265 hemi very potent for its time. There is a video on YT with one making 400hp N/A.
The early 60’s slant six was available with a 4 barrel carburetor and headers. The 70’s Volare and Aspen had a progressive 2 barrel. You could replace either manifold with a better carburetor or fuel injection. Then it would be hot.
I'm not personally a fan of cabs on boosted engines, EFI is easier to deal with and gives fewer problems (everyone has their preference, not saying its wrong). Kinda disapointed with the power, i was expecting a lot more for a boosted engine. Turismo Carretera cars make ~450hp out of (iirc) 4.0L i6 with dual Weber IDA carbs NA; and i get that they're full race engines, with crossflow heads, more complex carbs, and a bit of extra displacement, but i would think boost would more than make up for it.
We think she has a good bit more power to give. We're getting a lot of good comments here in terms of things to try, and we've talked to a few experts since shooting this video and are hopeful we can get things sorted!
I would love to have either of these engines. I don't know what I would put it in. But I'd definitely find something. There's nothing like the sound of an inline 6
Use a 30 psi fuel pump with a boost referenced pressure regulator. 7 psi initial that will be 15 with 8 psi boost, 17 at 10 psi boost.. A MSD ignition with @ .025 plug gap.Big difference.
You picked the wrong Slant Six- the 170ci was the 'race engine', used successfully in the lower NHRA classes 'back in the day'. Nice short stroke and just the right port and valve sizes/ci ratio....
Should have a larger Hat on top of that carb or some sort of spacer that raises the hat up. If that doesn't solve it, than I would recommend extending the blower outlet tubing a little bit longer. Sounds like you're getting all kinds of negative turbulence coming from the blower. Which is screwing up the metering of the blow-through carb. The more natural airflow you can make it into the top of your carb the more accurate you will have your carb responding to the boost. It's a common problem with this setup. People always want it as simple and small as possible when it comes to the plumbing outfit. But when it comes to blowing through a carburetor, it's much different than fuel injection that doesn't care as much about the turbulent airflow. Just FYI and hope you figure this out. I see a lot of comments about the Hat, and I agree. I'd be building a custom hat for a charge pipe that short and probably adding some baffling inside to help buffer the air and direct it smoother...... But thats just me.... Good Luck Boys. 😊
Watching from the State of Rhode Island-having owned a '66-&-two '69-225 cars-I can much appreciate-great fun and interesting guys-now-how 'bout we see this in that station wagon! Peace-all! 😊
A couple of things i learned from former Hagerty guys on "Stay Tuned" is that blow through carbs need a progressive fuel pump. One that puts out more pressure the higher the boost goes. That way, the boost isn't blowing the fuel back into the lines. I think Tony was also retarding the timing under boost. Granted, he's running a 4.3l chevy v6 and a turbo, but the idea should be the same.
Hook up the wide band air fuel ratio gauge. Video camera looking down the carb throat. Bring the unloaded rpms up till you just start to see the boosters start to trickle. Note that rpm. Reduce the rpm 75 to 100 and holding steady look at the air fuel ratio. You should be at 14.7 without any loads. If not at 14.7 you need to work with the idle feed restrictions. Then again unloaded look at 3800 rpms which is before the secondaries start to feed. Do you have 14.7 without any load. Once you get the idle circuits and primary mains set. You can see what the secondary jetting needs to be under load at 12.7. But not dropping the manifold vacuum below the opening of the power valves. Once that secondary jetting is set. Go for a WOT test dropping the manifold vacuum to open the power valves. You can change the power valve channel restrictors then.
Ratio of boost doesn't match the rpm increase. So the timing will not adjust as needed. Fuel enrichment was needed because the lack of vacuum due to manifold design. None of the parts are designed to work with each other. 5 variables working against each other.
How about an accounting so far of all that's been done / put into the build? I went back and watched the December video and saw the porting, decking, and other machining, plus the valve train upgrade, but no mention of the cam or any other unseen / unlisted bits. Is there another video I missed? Static, for Dyno pulls, what you have works so far. A couple of things that need to be addressed if this would ever go into a vehicle, especially something that will see the G-forces that extra power will generate: 1. Oiling issues due to center sump design - windage tray, crank scraper and even some sort of way to keep as much oil in the bottom of the pan during acceleration - all in the name of preventing oil starvation during critical times. YT reference Plan Z. 2. Stock fuel pump needs an upgrade - now that way more fuel than stock "can be" used, the risk of not being able to keep up with demand is real. An external electric or a high volume mechanical pump is recommended. Reference see #4. 3. Valves - I see that new seats were cut / refurbished, but did you increase the size of the valves? Finding direct replacements is a herculean task, so look elsewhere - ie, what combo of exhaust valve/intake valve size would fit inside the chamber, especially if you used an exhaust from a V8 for the intake, and maybe move the /6 intake to the exhaust? as long as the stems fit and the valves don't hit each other or the cylinder walls, the boosted flow will move much easier. 4. What is the fuel device? Still looks like a single barrel, albeit bigger than what I remember on my 225. A well flowing 225 can use a 500 CFM 4 BBL and scream like a banshee, depending on the cam chosen. Reference a 1999 Hot Rod Magazine article on the /6 barracuda built for giveaway. The original 1/4 mile was over 19 second at somewhere around 70 MPH. By the time they were done, they were in the 15's and close to 90 MPH, with an open diff smoking that single tire, and fuel starvation about 3/4 of the way down the track. NATURALLY ASPIRATED. That leaning tower of power has so much more potential if you just pay attention to some of the finer details, here, and throughout the rest of the comments.
*Davin* have you considered clocking the carb on the green engine 90* to the same alignment as the 4bbl on the supercharged engine? With the trottle plates in the 'stock' position. the rear 3 cylinders get more a/f mix than the front three, which can cause issues with power. Worth a quick check.
I think like quite a few others that the turbo to carb interface is causing your fueling issues. The quality of the air through it will affect how the fuel and air mix. Fuel injection and an inter cooler would probably solve a lot of issues. Other than that, finding a way to get the charge air more parallel with the natural flow of the carb will really help. It would also be nice to know what intake air temp and density are.
You may have already done it, but maybe go talk to Steve Morris about your cam profile. He's out on a Drag and Drive right now, so give him a shout and expect him some time next week... Cool engine though! In the early 90's I went through some of these growing pains with a 351 and B&M blower... those jets will drive you nuts, and then playing with advance springs and accelerator pump.... yup a bunch of chasing your tail to find a happy medium! Later I was told cam profile was my problem but never got to find out for sure.
When some people ran a centrifugal blower or a snail on a carb engine, they would use and enclosure that wraps the entire carb in it. That was their way of keeping control of the fueling. It makes me think about how I would work on some 80s cars where turbo power was an option on some fours. The early ones would sometimes have EFI on the turbo variant and carbs on the NA variant. Maybe they were avoiding this challenge. Maybe the turbo model was so much more expensive that the additional cost of EFI was worth it.
Aluminum 225 slant sixes depending on factory configuration were from 117 h.p. to the Mexican export Hi Altitude version @ 235 h.p. Rich condition at higher RPM generally is caused by a vacuum issues near runners 5 and 6. it causes a flat spot and or a miss .
I’m not an engine guy but - I did notice in last pull vs some of the others the sound was more rhythmic and less clacky, like something wasn’t quite adjusted correctly until the last run. Three times factory horse power …… that’s the business!!!!
You should talk to uncle Tony (UTG). He knows his stuff with those and among many many other things that have to be right about the divider in the intake manifold and carb.. with a slant 6 you have to get the intake manifold hot.. like up to the same running temp as the motor or it won't run for crap. Hit him up
36k miles? Without a 6th digit? Come on. Look at the gas pedal and seats. Love the slant6 content. Ever thought of propane? Carb is a toilet flap. Super easy to fuel, cheap and 110+ octane. Look up AK Miller stuff.
Try to add an intercooler too! Your intake air temps must be high. Low density hot air will mess with the air fuel ratio. Get a thermocouple in there and check. Might be able to pick up an aftermarket or used OEM air-to-air intercooler cheap.
I'm thinking if you want twenty first century power from a 1963 slanty, you need to consider what the original design goal at Chrysler was about. The motor was supposed to be a mild powered people mover engine that would be used for everything from pickup trucks to marine and saw mill service. The intake manifold with its unequal length sets of runners was designed to give a blend of torque through the typical power range. No super engineering was attempted to the cylinder head, just make something that works. The long stroke 225 cu.in. version is especially bad at giving high HP numbers, as horsepower is pretty much a function of rpm, (the rate at which work is done). OK my thought here; Finesse the head ports and combustion bowels. Do away with those long runner intakes and carb. Design a new intake system for multiport fuel injection with a proper size throttle body. Add a good low restriction air cleaner. Add 10 lbs of turbo boost through a decent intercooler. Install a cam with very little overlap. Add shorty header pipes , and then dump the exhaust as soon as possible into a common single pipe. Commence with tuning for proper size injectors and ign. timing. Now your 225 slanty should be 400-475 HP. Torque as well. Maybe even more. But I don't think the cost of those mods is worth the HP gain you will see. Like I alluded to, the slanty is an old design of reliable modest power, not max performance.
Reference fuel pressure to boost so your pressure will allways be enough, also drop timing beyond max tourque 1 degree every 500 rpm. Blow through is really tough.
Hello, for the Aluminum Engine I have 2 questions: 1. Did you degree the camshaft? New OE Style Timing Sets for the Slant 6 are Garbage. Do yourself a Favor and Get a Rollmaster CS5300 From Falcon Global or out of Australia, and Degree that Cam Even for the Stock Rebuild. 2. Did you Use the Special 1960-1962 Only Head Gasket for the AL engine? They are Hard to come by, as 62 year old NOS Parts are just that. and No one that I am aware of reproduces them. If you ran just the felpro or equivalent replacement Mahle etc. or a stock Steel Shim You are likely loosing compression somehow / somewhere into the Water jackets, which could be tough to spot on the Dyno. I do not believe it is your carb, but it could be. A BBS is simple enough and it should not make power much over 3800RPM, just noise. For the Supercharged Engine, A few Questions as well: 1 What is timing set choice again? Regular Parts store or rock auto stuff? Then the cam probably needs degreed. 2. What is the CFM of your Carb? 3 What headwork / has been done? 4. What are the Intake / exhaust Valve Sizes? 5. Does the Supercharged engine have a Stock Factory Slant 6 Cam? I have run all N/A Slants in various stages of tune for ~25 year, but some of my buddies have been successful with the Boost, usually that Carb is the First thing to go in favor of Megasqurt or other MPI I also Wonder if you would remove the longer Aussie Speed and Put a Clifford intake on there with shorter runners if that could help. My Guess is that it needs less primary jet as you were probably seeing a false lean reading with too much fuel on some of those pulls. Good Luck!
You really should have done a couple of dyno pulls before you put the boost to it for a good baseline of the carb, intake and cam combination then showed what the boost really brought to the table. I know cost is a factor but a blow thru EFI setup might yield slightly less power but gain a lot of street driveability.
I have no idea where you found the "stuff" to add to the quirky engine, but you achieved more power than anyone would have expected. Hey, it was probably the upside down oil filter that was holding you back. Who, in his right mind, produces an aluminum block for a Slant 6?
The slant 6 was designed to be reliable, long lasting and fuel efficient, even by modern standards it's quite efficient. You can hot rod anything, but there are so many engines that are better at making power than a slant 6, very few that are better at efficiency. As such, I see attempts at hot rodding a slant 6 as just making it worse, if you want lots of power start with the biggest V8 you can fit in your car, a mild 440 will walk all over that slant 6.
Loving all the comments, feedback and suggestions! We will do our best gather everyone's suggestions and combine that with a few conversations we've had with some experts since the dyno session. It certainly feels like there's more power in her! Hoping we can find some time to make the tweaks and fixes and give it another go on the dyno!
Get out in the shop and get your work done!
I have a 40-year-old sales brochure for the Paxton supercharger. It clearly shows and provides a large intake box that completely surrounds the carburetor. Instead of lots of pressure going into the air horn while the rest of the carb is sensing normal atmospheric pressure, the entire carb is normalized and fed by the same high-pressure air. Also, such an arrangement enables teh carb to take in air as it wants and not by turbulent airflow coming in from one direction.
With a large airbox, the carb will meter as normal and not push fuel backwards because of the pressure differences.
I watched an "Eric the Car Guy" video where he turbocharged an engine. The power was off. He used a similar carb "hat" to the one you are using. Turns out, that was his issue. When he swapped it out for a different one, the lost power was found again. Good luck.
Engine Masters tested carb hats. Good episode.
I usually block off the internal passage for the power valve and drill the carb for an external vac feed. Run it and drill the passeges for the power valve for added fuel. It works out well for me. Vac signal comes from the intake manifold where the air is less turbulent so the power valve can be consistent.
@@johnlewis8156 or switch to EFI. Even PowerNation was boosting these engines almost 2 decades ago now and making big power.🤣
Australian Valiants of that year used a holley single barrel. Carters were used on late 60’s Valiants. Holley 350 would be a minimum. Edlebrock 600 works great
That was exactly what I was thinking, but couldnt remember where I sa w it. It has terrible airflow and ruins the torque curve.
On a blow through carb setup, the hat on the carb can make a huge difference. It should be designed to give the carb as smooth an air flow as possible. Turbulence can really mess up the jetting. Ask me how I know. 🙂
How do you know?
We've recently discovered that! And we have a line on a couple different options to test out.
Hope when the issues are fixed to see another dyno session guys @@Hagerty
I have a 40-year-old sales brochure for the Paxton supercharger. It clearly shows and provides a large intake box that completely surrounds the carburetor. Instead of lots of pressure going into the air horn while the rest of the carb is sensing normal atmospheric pressure, the entire carb is normalized and fed by the same high-pressure air. Also, such an arrangement enables teh carb to take in air as it wants and not by turbulent airflow coming in from one direction.
With a large airbox, the carb will meter as normal and not push fuel backwards because of the pressure differences.
@@karlh6700 air should go down the carb if i t goes across the carb no happy there are some carbhats out there that guide the air down better than the once they used theres alot of extra work you need to do to a blow through setup
Thanks for showing us that super experienced guys have problems too.
That engine sounds healthy. I personally enjoy that you tuned a slant six. So cool. Anyone can do a V8. This is novel and fun.
It wasn't until I got rid of my blow through carb system on my slant six until I learned that having the inlet Hat like yours sitting 45 degrees to the metering block really messes with the signal to the air bleeds. I drove around with mine rich all the time so on the top end it wouldn't lean out. For the record, once I built a custom port injection EFI system with coil near plug ignition control, I quit being disappointed. Also allowed me to just block off the pump and distributer openings to clean up the side. Even the EFI sniper that looks like a carb doesn't work as well as people hope when they attempt to boost them.
Come on people we need to bump this up. This is the answer
Carbs are great some things. Turbo/supercharging isn't one of them.
Yep dead on and Iv boosted a lot of carbed things blow through. Honestly motorcycle carbs are the best in everyway except you have to sync them but you get cheap itbs and better atomization than efi and most are pretty friendly in a box with a pitote tube to whatever boost you wanna run. They are really finicky about base pressure though.
*Davin!*
There is an entire Mopar sub-culture out there who have spent decades perfecting racing
the slant six; tons of documentation out there on what works and what doesn't on that
weird little engine.
Me, I've never had a lot of interest in them - but I respect the hell out of the engines' durability
and it's often mentioned in this or that engineers' "top 10" list of all-time designs.
Now, why anyone would want to hop them up, I dunno....🙂
That carb hat isn't doing you any favors Davin, that's for sure. A hell of a choking point there.
Always great to see *Davin* on the channel!
- Ed on the Ridge
Shouldn't it have at two carburetors, one each for three cylinders?
The leaning tower of no power
Hate to see anyone struggling, but i had faith yall would get it, to be honest it is nice to know its not only us mere mortals that find ourselves scratching our heads from time to time. Love your work bubba, your attention to detail in your builds and videography is amazing.
Inline 6 is the best engine configuration for it's combination of smoothness, reliability and low end torque. I look forward to the follow up video.
Yep, but it does require a rear wheel drive configuration. Due to design constraints a straight six (or eight) is not practical for front wheel drive, though Volvo tried it for a while Fortunately the I-6 continues and new ones are being added. Ford could use an I-6 in the Mustang, there is plenty of room in that long engine bay.
My slant runs a single pte6262 turbo but still blow through like this. I’ve had to run vent tube extensions or else it’s undrivable lean despite having massive jets front and rear. I also run the extreme velocity carb hat works great. My power valve is boost referenced as well my fuel pressure rises at a 1:1 ratio with boost.
Always loved the slant 6. A friend's dad had 2 back in the 70s. He said, sonny, all you gotta do is change the oil, check the points, put a set of plugs in once in a while, and a slant 6 will last forever.
That's not bad. Plenty of fun there and not a cookie cutter LS. You didn't do many upgrades to it. Boost is a measure of restriction so you are fighting the flow of a stock head/intake/exhaust. I'm expecting in race mode a reliable 1200 HP out of my Chevy I6 292, 6-71 blown nitrous with a Ryan Falconer V-12 head 340I/220E. It's a drag and drive build. Thank you for your time.
We tried 'blow through' setups back in the pre-FI days......and they were universally failures in driveability. I always suspected that putting the air flow through a 'pre-test' ahead of the manifold/port/valves introduced weird harmonics and currants which only mutiplied in the manifold. 'Flow' then had to reconfigure itself before heading down the runners. Big time 'stutter' induced....
Love the slant motors. Many many viewers are giving you some good advice, I hope there's a follow up video with it running properly. Well done. Cheers guys 😊
Nice work! Pretty sweet little engine, Davin...Great to see something other than an LS!
✌️❤️🙂🇨🇦
An Amazing Historical Power-Plant - It's Special in the hearts of many.
Best engine Mopar ever made. You just can’t kill it. I drove my 69 Dart without any coolant till the motor quit. I left it cool, added water and good to go. Got up for work, freeze plugs laying on the ground. Dug the ice out and reinstalled the plugs, removed the fan belt and off to work I went. I was young, broke and made it work.
Oh man... I LOVE so much watching and Hearing an inline 6 supercharged.. we need to appreciate more this kind of things that people don't make commonly and Im VERY thankful i can enjoy it here guys, thank you! Hope to see this engine again in the dyno with some things figured it out, wouldn't surprise me that this baby is has more like 400hp... btw 343hp is a Great power for this type for engine with just 8 psi, i wish i could have this in my car
Out of curiosity, why not swap the carb for something like Holley or Edlebrocks EFI system? You'd still have the look of the carb, but since that carb hat is probably causing issues with fueling, you'd eliminate that issue and see more power
Need to run a holley carb hat. That one blocks the vent tubes.. need to get good air to vent tubes. Then you can jet back down
I agree. I think the larger jets covered the actual problem. Air intake, location is not good either. Cheers 🇨🇦
I’ve heard of this exact same issue on an old Dodge motor. The guy had to modify the intake direction
Excellent presentation. Thank you. A really good episode.
Always fun to watch
was the carb modified for blow through? typically the accelerator pump and floats needs changed.
UTG goes in depth on the slant six and it's shortcomings.
You bring back happy memories - Mother had a Dart GT with that leaning tower of power as a grocery hauler.
I ran across someone who really is a specialist in the slant 6. I don't remember his name right off, but he does some amazing things with them! He told the full history of the slant 6, and he had a dragster that put out some AMAZING power!
The Leaning Tower of Power! My High School history teacher drove a 20 year old Dart powered by one of these. He used to joke that "the sun would dim", and that "tides across the Earth would rise and fall" when he started it. My Dads John Deere oat swather also had a sidehill six on it. It must have been defective. I never seen the sun dim when he started it.
Tony Angelo just did one of those at stay tuned very serious power! I bet he could help 👍
@craigbowley6783 ask,.iirc, Steve Dulcich about /6 Baracuda giveaway back in '99. Dropped a close 20-second car down into the 15s just by working on that engine in normally aspirated mode. If it had had a posi rear and an electric fuel pump, it would've been even faster.
You can also ask Uncle Tony about the work he did on Plan Z. He took everything he learned from his street years up through his nitro years and put it toward the leaning tower of power.
Uncle Tony’s Garage did a great video about the LEANING TOWER OF POWER. the 225 was a great little motor.
So take away in my book is that even a engine builder, that is really good at doing it, still learns something! Keep up the good work guys! If you aint workin and learnin its time to call it a day!
Definately agree with a few here.
The carb has to be specifically setup for boost with a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator otherwise it struggles. Engine masters did a lot of work with blow through carbs.
A little bit of research beforehand goes a long way. I was kinda shocked to see y'all struggle with this.
Loves me the sound of six in a row!
My first car back in the mid eighties was a 65 Dodge Dart 270 2 door post with the 225 slant six and the torqueflite column shifted automatic. Surprisingly peppy as I remember even in stock form. Would be fun to acquire another A body Mopar and spice up its leaning tower of power.
I saw the most beautiful engine today!
Back in the 90's I built up a slant 6 in an old 1978 Plymouth Volare. Ugly 2 door, looked ratty so I left it like that. Under the hood was a different story.
I cast my own intake and put a 650 Holley atop a small Roots Blower. Every run, it had to have something re tuned, took 5 months to get into anything resembling consistency but once it got there... it was all about sit down, shut up and hang on. I eventually got it to 385 HP to the rear with the help of a little bit of NO2 and then took it racing in Phoenix where it turned a lot screwed up looks, Velocity stack with no filter on the left side of the hood. Suddenly my ratty looking old Plymouth was a popular ride.
This is the first in a long while that I've ever seen someone else tackle this engine with this much gusto. Curious to know what's next for it?
It's kind of amazing how much difference boost makes. I also think it's fun to see what old pushrod 6's can do. Pretty cool.
ok, on to Dead Dodge Garage's attempt at a turbo screaming tower of power. As much as I love the slant 6, I am always amused by folks, who know better, trying to make them a power house!
Does make for entertaining content.
Love the vids guys, don't need the minute of spoilers/teasers beforehand 👍
My man! What a sweet little 6. Now I want a charger on my 292 chevy! Thanks for the awsome show✌️
Paxton worked all this out in the 50,s, do not blow through the carb, blow into a plenum box around the carb and double the size of your air cleaner.
I was going to say. 1954 Kaiser used a Mcullough (later Paxton) supercharger and the carb has a sealed box housing with plenty of room.
@@MrSkeltal268 Same set-up with the Paxton on the 1965 & 66 Shelby Mustangs.
Great to see the slant six stuff!!! Go Davin!
Thank you guy's......The slant six was a fine little engine......But this one is amazing.....
Old F-4 Phantom pilot Shoe🇺🇸
I certainly hope Hagerty shot the builds for both of these slants! I want to see Davin get into the Leaning Tower of Power!
What an absolute torque monster!
Love the green paint on the first motor, great video.
Bro, I love your garage and setup!
I think those stock manifolds have horrible distribution, the back pulse comes into the plenum and janks up the flow to the other runners.
My advice would be to put an Aussie speed manifold on it made in Australia, and add a 2 inch spacer block and then an anti-reversion plate from Spier Race Heads.
Then maybe try a different hat.
Kind regards.
Shane the mechanic from Australia.
@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt No, but we got the slant 6.
The 245 was also made in 215 and 265ci. It was a engine designed in Canada by the Chrysler Canada truck division.
The original was a full hemi, but in Australia we shaved the head down to make a 35% hemi chamber.
This made the Australian 265 hemi very potent for its time.
There is a video on YT with one making 400hp N/A.
@@shanerorko8076 Cool, thanks. I meant 265 but typoed it. 🙄
I'd be happy if my Slant 6 made that kind of power!
It's kinda funny how Devin and Tony Angelo tend to always show up at that dyno with the weirdest cool engines. 😁🤘
Another great Vid Dave . Thanks
The early 60’s slant six was available with a 4 barrel carburetor and headers. The 70’s Volare and Aspen had a progressive 2 barrel. You could replace either manifold with a better carburetor or fuel injection. Then it would be hot.
I'm not personally a fan of cabs on boosted engines, EFI is easier to deal with and gives fewer problems (everyone has their preference, not saying its wrong).
Kinda disapointed with the power, i was expecting a lot more for a boosted engine. Turismo Carretera cars make ~450hp out of (iirc) 4.0L i6 with dual Weber IDA carbs NA; and i get that they're full race engines, with crossflow heads, more complex carbs, and a bit of extra displacement, but i would think boost would more than make up for it.
We think she has a good bit more power to give. We're getting a lot of good comments here in terms of things to try, and we've talked to a few experts since shooting this video and are hopeful we can get things sorted!
I would love to have either of these engines. I don't know what I would put it in. But I'd definitely find something. There's nothing like the sound of an inline 6
Great work, awesome vid!!
I won't time stamp it, but I appreciate not censoring. Just that one word really relays the the struggle that was going on.
Great vid and very interesting engine.
Use a 30 psi fuel pump with a boost referenced pressure regulator. 7 psi initial that will be 15 with 8 psi boost, 17 at 10 psi boost.. A MSD ignition with @ .025 plug gap.Big difference.
You picked the wrong Slant Six- the 170ci was the 'race engine', used successfully in the lower NHRA classes 'back in the day'.
Nice short stroke and just the right port and valve sizes/ci ratio....
Great project. Nice to see the uncommon.
Love the 6 🍻👍
Should have a larger Hat on top of that carb or some sort of spacer that raises the hat up. If that doesn't solve it, than I would recommend extending the blower outlet tubing a little bit longer. Sounds like you're getting all kinds of negative turbulence coming from the blower. Which is screwing up the metering of the blow-through carb. The more natural airflow you can make it into the top of your carb the more accurate you will have your carb responding to the boost. It's a common problem with this setup. People always want it as simple and small as possible when it comes to the plumbing outfit. But when it comes to blowing through a carburetor, it's much different than fuel injection that doesn't care as much about the turbulent airflow. Just FYI and hope you figure this out. I see a lot of comments about the Hat, and I agree. I'd be building a custom hat for a charge pipe that short and probably adding some baffling inside to help buffer the air and direct it smoother...... But thats just me.... Good Luck Boys. 😊
Watching from the State of Rhode Island-having owned a '66-&-two '69-225 cars-I can much appreciate-great fun and interesting guys-now-how 'bout we see this in that station wagon! Peace-all! 😊
A couple of things i learned from former Hagerty guys on "Stay Tuned" is that blow through carbs need a progressive fuel pump. One that puts out more pressure the higher the boost goes. That way, the boost isn't blowing the fuel back into the lines. I think Tony was also retarding the timing under boost. Granted, he's running a 4.3l chevy v6 and a turbo, but the idea should be the same.
Hook up the wide band air fuel ratio gauge. Video camera looking down the carb throat. Bring the unloaded rpms up till you just start to see the boosters start to trickle. Note that rpm. Reduce the rpm 75 to 100 and holding steady look at the air fuel ratio. You should be at 14.7 without any loads. If not at 14.7 you need to work with the idle feed restrictions.
Then again unloaded look at 3800 rpms which is before the secondaries start to feed. Do you have 14.7 without any load. Once you get the idle circuits and primary mains set. You can see what the secondary jetting needs to be under load at 12.7. But not dropping the manifold vacuum below the opening of the power valves. Once that secondary jetting is set. Go for a WOT test dropping the manifold vacuum to open the power valves. You can change the power valve channel restrictors then.
Ratio of boost doesn't match the rpm increase. So the timing will not adjust as needed. Fuel enrichment was needed because the lack of vacuum due to manifold design. None of the parts are designed to work with each other. 5 variables working against each other.
We always love seeing any Slant Six, especially a boosted one. Let us know if you want to try our Multipoint fuel injection on that engine.
Is that the EFI Aussiespeed AS0299 Slant Six Intake?
@@grecoconduris6716 we offer any of the Aussiespeed lineup as EFI, including the one on @Hagerty dyno (AS0024 Hurricane).
Now We Know the Limits of That .
Nice work!
How about an accounting so far of all that's been done / put into the build? I went back and watched the December video and saw the porting, decking, and other machining, plus the valve train upgrade, but no mention of the cam or any other unseen / unlisted bits. Is there another video I missed?
Static, for Dyno pulls, what you have works so far. A couple of things that need to be addressed if this would ever go into a vehicle, especially something that will see the G-forces that extra power will generate:
1. Oiling issues due to center sump design - windage tray, crank scraper and even some sort of way to keep as much oil in the bottom of the pan during acceleration - all in the name of preventing oil starvation during critical times. YT reference Plan Z.
2. Stock fuel pump needs an upgrade - now that way more fuel than stock "can be" used, the risk of not being able to keep up with demand is real. An external electric or a high volume mechanical pump is recommended. Reference see #4.
3. Valves - I see that new seats were cut / refurbished, but did you increase the size of the valves? Finding direct replacements is a herculean task, so look elsewhere - ie, what combo of exhaust valve/intake valve size would fit inside the chamber, especially if you used an exhaust from a V8 for the intake, and maybe move the /6 intake to the exhaust? as long as the stems fit and the valves don't hit each other or the cylinder walls, the boosted flow will move much easier.
4. What is the fuel device? Still looks like a single barrel, albeit bigger than what I remember on my 225. A well flowing 225 can use a 500 CFM 4 BBL and scream like a banshee, depending on the cam chosen. Reference a 1999 Hot Rod Magazine article on the /6 barracuda built for giveaway. The original 1/4 mile was over 19 second at somewhere around 70 MPH. By the time they were done, they were in the 15's and close to 90 MPH, with an open diff smoking that single tire, and fuel starvation about 3/4 of the way down the track. NATURALLY ASPIRATED.
That leaning tower of power has so much more potential if you just pay attention to some of the finer details, here, and throughout the rest of the comments.
That amount of increase is very impressive.
Love it wish you would do a Chevy 235 or 292
They did a 235. Didn’t dyno it though
*Davin* have you considered clocking the carb on the green engine 90* to the same alignment as the 4bbl on the supercharged engine? With the trottle plates in the 'stock' position. the rear 3 cylinders get more a/f mix than the front three, which can cause issues with power. Worth a quick check.
I think like quite a few others that the turbo to carb interface is causing your fueling issues. The quality of the air through it will affect how the fuel and air mix. Fuel injection and an inter cooler would probably solve a lot of issues.
Other than that, finding a way to get the charge air more parallel with the natural flow of the carb will really help. It would also be nice to know what intake air temp and density are.
You may have already done it, but maybe go talk to Steve Morris about your cam profile. He's out on a Drag and Drive right now, so give him a shout and expect him some time next week... Cool engine though! In the early 90's I went through some of these growing pains with a 351 and B&M blower... those jets will drive you nuts, and then playing with advance springs and accelerator pump.... yup a bunch of chasing your tail to find a happy medium! Later I was told cam profile was my problem but never got to find out for sure.
When some people ran a centrifugal blower or a snail on a carb engine, they would use and enclosure that wraps the entire carb in it. That was their way of keeping control of the fueling.
It makes me think about how I would work on some 80s cars where turbo power was an option on some fours. The early ones would sometimes have EFI on the turbo variant and carbs on the NA variant. Maybe they were avoiding this challenge. Maybe the turbo model was so much more expensive that the additional cost of EFI was worth it.
Aluminum 225 slant sixes depending on factory configuration were from 117 h.p. to the Mexican export Hi Altitude version @ 235 h.p. Rich condition at higher RPM generally is caused by a vacuum issues near runners 5 and 6. it causes a flat spot and or a miss .
I never got the idea of blowing into a carb like that instead of pulling from it? But that why I like fuel injection in even that engine
I’m not an engine guy but - I did notice in last pull vs some of the others the sound was more rhythmic and less clacky, like something wasn’t quite adjusted correctly until the last run. Three times factory horse power …… that’s the business!!!!
Hate to say it, but you probably need to swap the carb for a Holley Sniper EFI? Just to get that fueling curve right?
Wow that's cool as hell yeah man that sounds great to me too here ❤❤❤
You should talk to uncle Tony (UTG). He knows his stuff with those and among many many other things that have to be right about the divider in the intake manifold and carb.. with a slant 6 you have to get the intake manifold hot.. like up to the same running temp as the motor or it won't run for crap. Hit him up
I would like to see what efi does.
36k miles? Without a 6th digit? Come on. Look at the gas pedal and seats.
Love the slant6 content.
Ever thought of propane? Carb is a toilet flap. Super easy to fuel, cheap and 110+ octane. Look up AK Miller stuff.
For sure this engine is causing the Pros Pain.
Try to add an intercooler too! Your intake air temps must be high. Low density hot air will mess with the air fuel ratio. Get a thermocouple in there and check. Might be able to pick up an aftermarket or used OEM air-to-air intercooler cheap.
I'm thinking if you want twenty first century power from a 1963 slanty, you need to consider what the original design goal at Chrysler was about. The motor was supposed to be a mild powered people mover engine that would be used for everything from pickup trucks to marine and saw mill service. The intake manifold with its unequal length sets of runners was designed to give a blend of torque through the typical power range. No super engineering was attempted to the cylinder head, just make something that works. The long stroke 225 cu.in. version is especially bad at giving high HP numbers, as horsepower is pretty much a function of rpm, (the rate at which work is done). OK my thought here; Finesse the head ports and combustion bowels. Do away with those long runner intakes and carb. Design a new intake system for multiport fuel injection with a proper size throttle body. Add a good low restriction air cleaner. Add 10 lbs of turbo boost through a decent intercooler. Install a cam with very little overlap. Add shorty header pipes , and then dump the exhaust as soon as possible into a common single pipe. Commence with tuning for proper size injectors and ign. timing. Now your 225 slanty should be 400-475 HP. Torque as well. Maybe even more. But I don't think the cost of those mods is worth the HP gain you will see. Like I alluded to, the slanty is an old design of reliable modest power, not max performance.
Reference fuel pressure to boost so your pressure will allways be enough, also drop timing beyond max tourque 1 degree every 500 rpm. Blow through is really tough.
Is your carb boost referenced?
Cool, talk to Steve Dulcich as he boosted one. It's been a few years since I saw him doing it.
Some times they are sent to try you haha
Is it strange that I feel like to "simplify" the process port fuel injection is the way to go.
Impressive power numbers comparable to my Hemi in my pickup truck
Slant 6 is like a lottery. You hardly ever win, but when you do its good.
Could a Holley Sniper EFI or similar help?
I second BobMeyer7009's comment; You're going to need vent tube extensions so they're not sitting in a dead-spot with that carb hat
Hello, for the Aluminum Engine I have 2 questions:
1. Did you degree the camshaft?
New OE Style Timing Sets for the Slant 6 are Garbage.
Do yourself a Favor and Get a Rollmaster CS5300 From Falcon Global or out of Australia, and Degree that Cam Even for the Stock Rebuild.
2. Did you Use the Special 1960-1962 Only Head Gasket for the AL engine? They are Hard to come by, as 62 year old NOS Parts are just that. and No one that I am aware of reproduces them.
If you ran just the felpro or equivalent replacement Mahle etc. or a stock Steel Shim You are likely loosing compression somehow / somewhere into the Water jackets, which could be tough to spot on the Dyno.
I do not believe it is your carb, but it could be. A BBS is simple enough and it should not make power much over 3800RPM, just noise.
For the Supercharged Engine, A few Questions as well:
1 What is timing set choice again? Regular Parts store or rock auto stuff? Then the cam probably needs degreed.
2. What is the CFM of your Carb?
3 What headwork / has been done?
4. What are the Intake / exhaust Valve Sizes?
5. Does the Supercharged engine have a Stock Factory Slant 6 Cam?
I have run all N/A Slants in various stages of tune for ~25 year, but some of my buddies have been successful with the Boost, usually that Carb is the First thing to go in favor of Megasqurt or other MPI
I also Wonder if you would remove the longer Aussie Speed and Put a Clifford intake on there with shorter runners if that could help.
My Guess is that it needs less primary jet as you were probably seeing a false lean reading with too much fuel on some of those pulls.
Good Luck!
You really should have done a couple of dyno pulls before you put the boost to it for a good baseline of the carb, intake and cam combination then showed what the boost really brought to the table. I know cost is a factor but a blow thru EFI setup might yield slightly less power but gain a lot of street driveability.
I have no idea where you found the "stuff" to add to the quirky engine, but you achieved more power than anyone would have expected. Hey, it was probably the upside down oil filter that was holding you back. Who, in his right mind, produces an aluminum block for a Slant 6?
Give Steve Dulcich a call. He is the Mopar guy
Australia has some good mopar six builders with impressive dyno numbers
The slant 6 was designed to be reliable, long lasting and fuel efficient, even by modern standards it's quite efficient. You can hot rod anything, but there are so many engines that are better at making power than a slant 6, very few that are better at efficiency. As such, I see attempts at hot rodding a slant 6 as just making it worse, if you want lots of power start with the biggest V8 you can fit in your car, a mild 440 will walk all over that slant 6.
I come for the story and cinematography, I stay for the peak level dad jokes.