I rode my 25 year old DR650 to work and back today. She is wearing brand new Dunlop Trailmax Missions. I never knew she was such a capable road bike also!!!
I've done 1000+ miles in a day on a DR. It's better on superslab than many naked streetbikes, and I have DOT knobbies, 0 windscreen, stock seatfoam and aftermarket seat foam, 5gal tank, stock piston/cam/exhaust, 15/44 sprockets, etc. I ride the same DR in sandy, muddy, rocky, rooty, rutty singletrack. Weight can be shaved to as low as 320lb curb (per Procycle.us), and suspension can be upgraded to handle MX tracks.
Lots of truth here, even if is comes with a dollop of sadness. The real solution is 2 bikes. One scary-fast for pavement and one dirt bike with turn signals. Buy the one you will use the most first, and 2-3 years old if you need to save 40% on the price. Hope you feel better soon!
This is what the ADV industry needs: a 320 lbs or below 60HP ADV bike with a 5+ gallon tank, 19" front wheel, 17" back wheel with some Michelin Anakee Adventures on stock. That would be the unicorn bike.
I agree. Thinking of taking a 701LR and getting a 19" front wheel made. Currently have a 390 ADV and a Beta 390R. The 390 ADV just doesn't have quite enough grunt for me. I feel the A2 restriction has neutered the 400-500cc market.
@@godspeed44 beast idea bro! I'm a USA rider and my bike is a fully modded 701 supermoto. All the body mods are to drop weight since I came from a DRZ, but I'm debating setting up the LR gas tanks and turning it into a tourer. Still have a 17" front I'm so used to offroading with it I'm not pressed on a 19" rn I just wheelie over obstacles fr. Michelin Anakee Adventures are the best 80/20 tire I've tried btw they even handle wet grass surprisingly well
@@user-do1sr9wg1w cornering on the street. I switched from dirt bike to supermoto and I get so much more cornering performance on the street and I was hella surprised at how well I could still off-road on my 17s for a do everything bike it should corner like a street bike and ride like a dirt bike off-road. Me personally would do 17 17 but for most people they would probably prefer 19 17
I’ve just replaced my CRF300L suspension with a k tech razor shock and a 10nm fork spring re valved with the k tech valve kit. Cost me £800 for all parts and fitting and made a huge difference, as good as the cartridge kit just not adjustable at the forks but as long as you get the correct spring for your weight you don’t need them to be adjustable. It’s a great result for the price
I've changed CRF300L suspension to Hyperpro Streetbox - rear shock and front spring +7,5 oil. What I've noticed - bike is MUCH harder now, like on the opposite scale it was before. It is MUCH better on sand, more predictible, more controllable, better corners on asphalt, no more stress on three or more consecutive jumps. BUT I must admit that I sometimess miss that soft and soothing suspension when I need to ride for some relaxation - it had it's merits.
It's ok if it's soft if it has enough rebound damping and not too much sag, better for trialsy/hard enduro stuff. But that was also a problem with the WR250R's shock, it was like a pogo stick due to being soft without enough rebound damping.
Good news everyone. I just looked in the garage and I had a good look around the market place and the dr650 hasn't suddenly disappeared at all. It's still here! We don't need a substitute.
Unless you live in the purgatory of where high elevation riding amd low elevation riding coincide... I'm sick of changing needles mid-trip. I've been waiting for Suzuki to pull a Kawasaki KTM 690 trick on the DR for five years, since selling my DR. Live at 8k, most local riding is higher than that, or way way lower. I'm over carb hassles.
Hey Solid, hope your daughter is well! As a dr rider, a 390 is just to small to fit a full sized anglo dudes frame. Also, I know the internet will have everyone believe that the dr needs a six speed, however, I feel its kind of redundant with the torque curve of the 650. Juat go 14 tooth for local off road and 15 for touring. Efi on the other hand...
I've noticed a big jump in the use of the KTM/Husq 500cc and Honda crf450rl category as a light adventure motorcycle. As people have been using oil analyzes and that databank has increased for more reference, I've seen Round The World riders getting 2-4k kms out of each oil change AND getting 60k kms before their first valve adjustment. Motorcycles in this category are also getting long hours before top end rebuilds. Adding a more comfortable seat, some wind protection and a bit more fuel range on a very good platform is still easier than swapping out all your suspension and squeezing an extra 2-5 horse power at a costly premium out of a regular dual sport
The drz400 has been removed from the line up for 2025 in America. I suspect they are redesigning it with fuel injection. Hopefully they add a 6th gear.
@@AmeriMutt76 they are banned in aus is what this guy is saying due to emissions, yet I see the cops sporting new yellow ones gotta stop that GLOBAL WARMING
KOVE 450 Rally is the best out the box dualsport right now in my humble opinion. Many reasons to love and hate it but if it would carry a Honda badge it would sell like CRAZY. They still need to prove hardware longevity and long term customer support.
@@toqtoq3361 As near as makes no difference it's the same weight as Tuareg 660 and Tenere 700. Awesome pricepoint and very cool to see a 450 twin cylider but I agree in that it's more in the midweight adv category than an actual dualsport. Also increasingly difficult or almost impossible to avoid products made in China even from the biggest european brands. I find it kinda interesting how normalized it is that almost all our electronics we use daily come from China and then when it comes to motorcycles it is a huge issue.. Something to think about 🤔 I'm not here to moralize or be a talking head to any brand though.
@@habibi750 ikr I definitely don't want any bike heavier than my WR250R, which is probably 310lbs wet. Compared to a 260lb enduro it's a huge difference, feels like a boat
I dunno, the Kove seems like the perfect bike for people who don't ride off road but who want to say they do. Probably would sell well tho, there's plenty of 4x4 trucks and suvs that never leave pavement too.
My 2019 CRF450L came with 2 x ECU’s . One USA spec and the other the European spec. I can say,as someone who has come from a Husqvarna FE501, that the CRF with the USA spec ECU is close to the FE501 in terms of power. It does still need a pipe to get the maximum out of the engine. Do not be put off by these bikes , they are truly amazing.
After years of trying adv bikes, heavier end dual sports like the wr250r/crf300l and converted enduro bikes, I've come to the conclusion that I've wasted my time and money trying to find/achieve the perfect 50/50. Why is that you'll ask? Well, if you wanna have the most fun offroad, youll have it with real offroad tyres, mounted on the lightest bike possible with the most balanced amount of power for your level and needs(in my case any enduro 250 4 stroke fits the bill) and if you wanna have the most fun onroad, youll have it with full onroad tyres on the bike that best fits your needs, of course you can have plenty of fun riding a dual sport/adv bike but 50/50 tyres just dont allow you to use the full potential of your bike offroad, a heavy dual sport/adv bike is okay but after trying a real enduro bike imo there is no going back, there is just no comparisson, yes I understand that people who wanna have a big adventure will benefit from a lightweight adv bike with lower maintainance (AJP PR7 is the best bike for this purpose imo) but lets be real here, most of us spend years planning that big trip which just never happens, and in the meantime spend our precious time riding a bike that is just not as fun or as capable because we handicaped ourselves with the idea of riding to another place far away, for years looking for and riding bikes on the search for the best 50/50 compromise ive just come to the conclusion that i have been missing out on the fun and capabilities of a full offroad machine just because I did not want to purchase a cheap/small van to transport a bike to the trails or even the track lol. Sorry for the rant, this is just my opinion but wanted to share, maybe its useful to someone.
You are totally right, I experienced it with normal bikes. But having a dedicated transport vehicule or trailer is a huge investment, not even talking about the fuel usage ... Best thing is having a level head and do what the bike can do / is designed for, even if you have to close some doors to open other for it. Wanted to do some MTB trails but realisticly a MTB would have been to specialized for my wallet and my needs. Oh well, took a nice all trail / all terrain bike and explored other things
Ran the 2019 CRF450L for 2 years and liked it but being 6 foot 200lbs the mods needed to the suspension and the tuning issues I swapped it for a 2023 Beta 390rrs. No tuning problems and the suspension is a major improvement even in it's stock form.
My 690 KTM Enduro is middleweight, and its an adventure bike. I am not 100% sure if 10kg less would make a real difference offroad, and on the road the engine is great as well.
The KTM 640 Adventure came out a not long after I bought my 1100 GS. The big thumper and narrow seat wouldn't be great on a long trip. The 390 Adventure looks like an update to that bike. The longevity and aftermarket support have come a way since then. I would be interested in this for long distance travel.
@@Deertracks123 And makes many parts for KTM, Yamaha, BMW, and I believe used to do some Kawasaki in Polaris parts back in the day. I have a 450 NK and can’t wait for the MT edition and 53 years of riding. This is probably the smoothest best put together bike I’ve ever owned and I am the first personto denounce Chinese. But it is what it is.
Sure looks like the dual sport best in class to me. However, the guys at Traction E-rag had a tough time keeping a fleet of them running, and switched to CRF 250. To be fair, that is a rental fleet, but still...
I have one. It just needs a bigger oil pan and wider gears, and maybe some counterbalancing. Also the ECU tuning is annoying to say the least, especially with altitude. Although that might've changed with the latest firmware update. For a dual sport I'd rather have a 500. Although the 390 is fine, it's a bit more stressed on the road, and the 500 isn't too heavy. Might as well have a 500 4t and a 200 2t. A lightweight bike with cheap but well set up suspension and a cheap air cooled overbuilt/down tuned 500 engine would be awesome. It would kinda suck if it made any less power than a KLR650 though
I'm 75-years old. Ridden my wonderful Benelli TRK502 15,000 on and off road in New Zealand. Plenty powerful enough. With that great old "Triumph" twin sound. Cruise easily at 115kmh on the road. Bit heavy, but not too tall for us short old buggers The std Givi bags included are superb. A steal! No problems at all. Serviced by me. One of the best of the 29-motorcycles I have owned. And there is a long waiting list here for the 700cc version. The bike is always left out of comparison tests ~ big mistake!
I test rode a Triumph Scrambler 400 recently. Such a fun bike on the street even if under powered, I think it has the potential for dual sport applications. Well worth a look.
excellent video. this subject has been on my mind a lot lately and you really drilled down to the important comparisons to make. i could really see the new 390 enduro being a unicorn bike. I used to own a Vitpilen 401 from that platform and it was a blast to ride. Or like you say, a new DR 650 with EFI and 6 gears and i'm sold.
It's interesting to hear you say this new 390 may be the replacement for the DR650. The 690/701 platform already exists and I'd say it's much closer to that mark in everything but price. The modern ones have proven be pretty solid in terms of reliability and the performance difference is worth the price difference for sure. I went from a DR650 to a 701 enduro, I loved my DR but the 701 makes the DR feel like a cheap chinese knock-off. Which it probably should do that as the msrp is nearly double. If my market(PNW region of USA) is an accurate reflection of the rest of the world, you can get some killer deals. I paid $7500 for my 2019 701 with 2k miles on it. Easily a much better buy than a DR650, it's not even a question. The weight is fine, the power is amazing, and the suspension is good from the factory. People talk about the unicorn, but honestly unicorns are just impossible. Everyone has their own subjective idea of what a unicorn is. For some people, the 50/50 bike looks like an adventurized 500 exc. For others, that bike still isn't quite good enough on the road. For me it's the adventurized 701 for sure. For others it's something like the T7 or 890. There's a lot of factors here. I have a buddy who rides an 890R like it's a dirtbike, he can outride me on single track easily and he does a lot of crazy shit on his bike. He's skilled enough that he doesn't need to make the weight trade off for performance like I do. In his hands, the 890R is more offroad capable and more road capable than the 701 is in my hands. For some people, good performance on technical two track is enough. For others, they want their unicorn to do tight woods single track like a 500exc would. I have a friend with a 501 and it's his unicorn, he just needs a bike that can do the sub-1 hour of road riding to get to the harder single track he wants to do. Ultimately if you want the unicorn you have to build it yourself. Personally I've found the 701 to be the perfect 50/50 unicorn platform, but I still had to put work into it to tailor it to my needs. On top of that, basically any 50/50 bike is kinda killed if you're able to have 2 bikes. Having like a 350/500exc and a T7/890R is always gonna be better than just having a 701.
@@Michael_Shay for me it comes down to the tire choice actually. If you put proper knobbies on an 890 or 901, you don't have a lot of street benefits compared to a 701 except for some fairing and that can easily be fixed. And in most parts of Europe there aren't really any "trails" that you need an exc/fe type of bike, unless you are doing laps on tracks that are a few km. So, i guess you need at least 3 bikes. A 901 with 50/50 tires, a 701 with knobbies, a 250 fe for the woods enduro tracks, Oh and a 501 or 450 for Rally racing. But choosing one, it would be the 701 😁 (and that's what i've got)
Ah absolutely not, as a dual sport maybe, as a serious adventure bike the 701 is not in the same league as the DR because reliability is a key factor. The DR might be a tractor by comparison but it will pretty much always bring you back home
If you get a KTech rear shock for the 300L, add 80 pounds to your weight and use that as your spring rating, unless you like bottoming out or just ride pavement.
Hope you are feeling better real soon 🙏! What the KTM 390 lacks is low speed torque, and having owned all three I’d have to say the best “replacement” for the DR650 is the KTM 690 Enduro 😉.
For 20 years I have ridden only Japanese bikes but just recently bought a KTM just to see what the fuss is all about. After 400 casual miles, the bike doesn't start anymore. Turns out the battery somehow "went bad". Put in a new battery, connected the positive terminal and when connecting the negative, it throws sparks. Never buying KTMs again.
I am sorry for you man, what a shitshow :/ At the same time I needed that comment as my mind is starting playing tricks on me on buying a KTM 690 Enduro / 701 enduro. Guess KTM will always be like that
@@n03m9 Thanks. I still connected the new battery and so far things seem to be working, although can never be sure for how long, wouldn't want to be replacing the battery every 400 miles 😁. Nevertheless, the confidence is lost. I suppose with KTM the buyer just needs to be willing to trade some reliability and headaches dealing with dealerships for the bike's fun characteristics. And with enough luck, there may be no reliability issues at all.
@MichaelMoonwriter Do you have any documentation to prove this, or are just popping your mouth off? The USA buys 50% of all dirt bikes made. Why would you think dual sports wouldn't be the same? The country that buys the most dirt bikes depends on the region, but North America is the largest market overall: North America In 2023, North America had the largest share of the dirt bike market, accounting for about half of it in 2021. The United States is the largest market within North America, with an estimated 8.6 million dirt bike riders. The US's popularity of dirt biking can be attributed to its long history of motorcycle racing and many off-road riding opportunities.
Local KTM dealer mentioned due to clips of 390 Adventure Enduro R being published from India, that they are invited to a meeting with KTM in a few weeks. Another local KTM dealer can only state that the 450 MT, which they themselves do not sell, is sold out and more are waiting in line and that it is the 450-600cc Adventure + Dual Sport models the market want to buy. Especially now with inflation and recession. The market in India is in demand for RC 490 Duke Adv Enduro R , i.e. middle class bikes. But the manufacturers still don't seem to understand the market.
Solid - I don’t hear you discussing the new RE 450 Himalayan? Won’t that suit an on/off-road requirement? We don’t have it here in the USA yet, but I’m down to test one as soon as it comes out. Eat more oranges! (for your illness)
About ram-air effect: The ZX4R makes 77hp without RAM an 80hp with RAM - this is at top speed (~240km/h) Very marginal gain for sure, but in racing that matters - and it makes it look just that little bit more like the bikes your idols ride
Hey, Solid. Why are people ignoring the Himi 450 as a DR 650 replacement? It has the same output numbers yet smaller capacity. Under 200 kilos and built to be an all round Swiss Army knife bike. Royal Enfield can't seem to import enough of them
Good stuff as always...and I agree that when I bought my 990 in 08, people thought we were crazy to be taking them on "wide" single track trails. There is something special about putting big bikes in small places. Hope you heal fast!
I had a WR250R and while they’re good at most things if you put soft panniers on them and go on an adventure you will not keep up with your mates if they decide to sit on 100-110 into a headwind or on corrugations . Also you need to cover the headlight before hills That’s the CRF300L is no unicorn
I think the lines between enduro, dual sport, and adventure bikes have been blurred since adventure bikes became popularized as the cool, trendy option. A small light bike for offroad is never going to blend with a higher powered, on road cruising machine. The qualities of offroad bikes differ vastly between a comfortable bike for long distance highway cruising. 1 bike to do everything is going to be a compromise, either in handling, power, comfort, or reliability. Personally, a yz250x is great for the offroad riding i do. That frees me up to have a dyna for long distance trips and an mt09 for shorter fun riding. No 1 bike is capable of everything.
I've gone the enduro route. 2024 FE501, be aware, spanner men who I really appreciate and respect say it is a bitch to work on, but it is a dream to ride off road in tough terrain, very good on twin track and surprisingly good on the road. But that's with a Nomad fairing, cush drive rear wheel, balanced wheels, Seat Concepts seat, a largely useless larger tank (fuel pump in a stupid place) steering damper and in my pretty talentless hands, that set up is my unicorn for mixed on and off trail riding. Its 40 kg lighter than my 701 and the 701 was pretty bloody good, but the 501 is amazing.
@@timbrandt7211 I thought there would be and I love my 701 but the 701 has barely moved since I got the 501. The 701 (2016, totally reliable and made into a light adventure bike) is being sold. I have a Tiger 900 Rally which is my road and easy lane bike. The 900 on knobblies is surprisingly good off road.
@@TheIdlesurferinteresting. I have the 690 and 990 right now, trying to add an EXC to the mix for nice triple combo steed, but you got me thinking about just 2 with the 500/501. Maybe if I get a small enough model like a 250. Hmm.
@@timbrandt7211 Two friends and I have all had the big adv bike, 701 and 501. 2 of us have or are selling the 701s. My other 701 mate who can ride lanes just to go to the shops is keeping his 701, but he was thinking about selling it. The 701 is magnificent and if I had just one bike, it would be an adventured 701, but mine sits as the middle child, loved but easy to forget.
Hay brother, I had the first XRL (1993).You take off the smog junk, rejet the carb and take off that restricted muffler. And I got 46hp out of mine. At 350 lbs, (158kg) that's a good power to wight 0:02 figure.
Xr650r in my garage will never be sold. It does anything but tight single track ( I know some people do take it in single track). I have a 300 two stroke for that. Everything else is xr650r
@@otxilac11 Lucky you. I still remember seeing them brand new in the show room during the last year they were on sale. I almost pulled the trigger on one but instead went with a KTM520 The KTM was an unreliable piece of euro trash. Wish I'd have made a different choice.
Discussion about Unicorn shall last forever. Perhaps we don't have unicorn but we have a closest thing possible: Narwhal. That is Husqvarna 701 Enduro with comfort seat and long range tanks. Or KTM 690. All the rest, including KTM 390 are falling short of Unicorn status even if upgraded with 490 engine. 790/690 can be easy modified to suit your daily needs by mounting 17'' wheels and turning them into superb SM vehicles that will suit city riding to office. Search no more.
The new Himalayan 450 is a 452 cc single cylinder liquid cooled bike that generates 40hp and 40 Nm. It is a proper off road bike with great ground clearance and suspension. Another Indian brand Hero is said to be testing its new 400cc off road bike that will produce similar numbers. That is also said to be single cylinder liquid cooled.
The Himalayan is an Adventure Bike. It's capable but even with it's now taller suspension will still bottom out and is heavier than these smaller bikes. It's closer to the KLR650 than the 390. There's no perfect bike. The Himi is better on the road than the smaller bikes, but not better off-road in more difficult terrain. You have to ask yourself if you'd rather pick up an extra 30kg-70kg 30x b/c in higher difficulty off-road you will drop your bike. You could also take a 1200GS in most places, but it's not going to out perform a dirt bike or light weight ADV. The Himmi is a middle weight.
Hope you are feeling better soon mate, my opinion is with today's technology the big companies could easily make a Unicorn bike around the 400 to 600 size. But their profit margins on the bigger flag ships are much better for themselves. It's like cutting their own throats. Until a smaller company destroys them & captures the market. I'll put a years wages on a Chinese company doing exactly this if they haven't made that bike already. They're not stupid & theyre making a play at it. It might take a few years to get that good reputation for reliability. But they'll get there.
I also agree, for examples in central and South America, 85% of all the motorcycles are sub150cc, and most of them are made in China, including hondas Suzuks and yamahas, even the xr150l that sells in the usa is made in China, So in that way they can be part of that segment, another way for Japanese companies to be competitive is by keep doing what they have been doing over the past few years and that is to keep expanding their manufacturing in Thailand, Brazil and other small countries, So I think the Japanese brands are very aware of the game and they are playing their cards, but in a different way that can not always be seen positively especially right away, but on the other hand is also good that China is making better bikes themselves because competition is good 👍
Hi Solid You have spoken in the past about the DRZ400E and why hasn't Suzuki upgraded with a 6 speed gearbox and fuel injection I own a 2011 DRZ400E and I was at the Suzuki dealership who also have Husky's and KTM's getting some parts. I spoke to the sales man and had a look at the latest DRZ He was telling me tthe DRZ's where brought into Australia as a primary industry bike and thats why you can still get them here.. he said they are not available in NZ. He went onto to say farmers here were switching to 390 KTM's because the Suzuki is getting expensive at $12,000 The other interesting thing he told me was that they had a visit from a Suzuki guy from Japan and he said there was a rumor that Suzuki may get out of dirt bikes and concentate on Electric and Hydrogen road bikes I guess we'll see what happens PS. Love my DRZ400E
Just for the records, the gs1100, 30 years ago was officially 243 kg (likely real weight was even higher). It’s not one story of the last 10 or 20 years. And also bwm is doing a 21 inch wheel middleweight since 2008.
What you are saying is that bikes have become heavier and therefore definitions of middleweight have changed by manufacturers have become heavier. Despite what you have suggested in the past about market latent demand for lighter adventure bikes... 😮
Often wonder if Suzuki could build a DRZ500/DR550 as replacement for the old DRZ and DR. I suspect it would be heavier than most would like. Ideally it be 340-350 lbs, 45 hp, and 45 lb-ft torque, and 3 gallons of gas. Fuel injection, A sixth gear, good gear ratios, and CRF300L ergo's could make a killer bike.
More than the ram air advantage, the high forward intake allow for less likely water ingestion. I'm tired of airboxes under the seat. I live in Central America and during rainy season the water gets deep and I have come close to drowning my under seat intake box bike.
there is the GS class, those are Super Havyweights. The Aprilia 660 the Tenere and the 990 KTM-Husquarna would be Light Heavyweight ... Then bikes under 200kg could be called middleweight :)
Weight is still the issue here. My 701 Husky is under 160kg fully fuelled yet there’s the lighter 400cc alternative? I rode a Kove 450 in the States of a month back. Sadly it had a hideously loud can on it and ability hadn’t been properly set up so hard to get a balanced view. The engine needs hard revving to get it moving and heavy engine braking made it feel very on/off. Potentially a great dual sport with monster range.
KTM dropping the 450twin is the biggest mistral they have mad since they dropped Ewan and Charlie! I can see that the 390 will be the lightest way to get 40hp I just hope it doesn’t come at the price of frequent expensive servicing.
@rickayres9049 yep, I'm one. A 50/50 bike that you can lift 10 or more times in a day, and actually ride single-track while still riding highways comfortably (not necessarily Interstates)
I was very tempted to put a deposit down when they were announced with the 175kgs as I wanted something a little bit better offroad than my leoncino. I stopped myself because I already heavily modified it to be lighter and cope better with rough terrain despite the 19inch front. Man when the specs came out i was really glad i didn't do it, 196kgs is actually heavier than mine and that's before adding protection, it's also slower despite the grearing being a lot shorter. The advantages would be the suspension and the 21 front, but that 43mm suspension flexes a lot under load. In the end I didn't want to loose that much street perfomance so I'll be keeping the scrambler for a bit more time. And yes I already did test ride on one of my mate's, only on the street mind you.
Motorcycle Weight classes : where Mohomad Ali would now be the Fly Weight Boxing Champion of the World Three weight classes : flagship middleweight beginner : where WEIGHT & DISPLACEMENT have no effect on class ... MARKETING is QUEEN
The Tenere 700 in the spy shot DOES NOT HAVE RAM-AIR!!! It is clearly the World Raid model and has the same ducting as the outgoing model. Look at pictures of the current World Raid. I suppose it is some kind of duct to mix cool air with warm air from the radiator to reduce the heat coming out of the outlets on the side of the fairing. Can't say for sure tho, I have the Extreme Edition.
Do you think BMW will make the bike they obviously are super keen to make? An R1800gsa weighing 500kg dry? They've got the motor and their riders seem to like super heavy bikes (think 850gs adv at 260kg)
Just because the biggest bikes keep getting bigger does not mean we need to redefine "middle-weight". We need a new term for the 1200cc+ bikes rather than calling 1000cc a middleweight.
Weights are arbitrary as is trying to create standardised weight divisions. Heavier bikes can handle better and carry their weight better than lighter bikes (within reason) and at the end of the day the rider is the deciding factor. Skill, Experience, Strength, Balance, Agility and Mindset. What one finds unmanageable on certain terrain another has no issues with. Riders also have to make compromises and weigh a bikes strengths and weaknesses against their own and what they are capable of and want to do. No one can clearly delineate that X , Y or Z weight a bike is suddenly and arbitrarily better or worse suited to Adv riding. IMO the community needs to stop talking about imaginary weight divisions and simple talk about how the weight is carried and affects performance and handling. The rest is up to the rider.
Where you can still get them, bikes like the dr650 or xr650l with a hand full of mods are still really good adv bikes. The cfmoto 450 will sell well as there's nothing quite that size in a lot of places. I have ben around a bunch of cfmoto atv's, I wouldnt trust the cfmoto adv bike at all long term. They put a ton of electronic bs on that bike and that's what fails on cheap chinese bikes.
Why do thing the 390 will not be reliable? Or mark it as a new bike? Is has the 390 engine - maybe the next generation but definitely not a new one… so the new things will be rims or suspension- which not very likely to break in my opinion. The plastics - also not really a deal breaker in opinion. What makes you think this not a good joice?
A 390 enduro is basically a drz400, probably worse, so its not a replacement for a dr650, the dr650 has tractor like torque, where you have to rev the drz and 390 to get anywhere
I'm ( a fairly fit) 58 and am returning to biking after a 20 year break, I'm not interested in huge power just a fairly lightweight bike for the 4 mile commute to work and weekend light off roading...I really can't decide between the Honda CRF 300 rally and Motor Morini Xcape 650, obviously one is bigger and heavier than the other but the new cost is the same...if the Suzuki DRZ 400 was still available in the UK then that would be my first choice....any thoughts would be welcome.
60 years old here! I keep stepping down in size mostly due to the weight of the bikes. My current ride is the Beta 390rrs and love the power to weight ratio.
check out the 390adv. It is an "all trail" bike rather than a true "offroader" as the 300R is BUT it is far better for the road, has better safety tech AND its suspension is actually good enough out of the box contrary to the 300R has which can have limitations.
Fantic 450 XEF Rally. ...140kg with all fuels...rhats 25kg lighter than the Kove. Its got the Yamaha 450 engine(bullet proof) proven Dakar finisher.... didn't blow up like the 3 koves (allegedly did)... Race map by fantic, kevlar engine shield, carpe iter navigation as standard....yes its 4grand more than the kove, but just LOOK at what you get!!
The cure for calling a heavy bike "middleweight" is to start calling the "flagship" bikes & let's be honest, that means BMW GS, what they truly are, HEAVYWEIGHTS, BARGE-BIKES or BLOAT-BIKES.
Mate I have never even considered a Chiner bike but they are making inroads, and with the cost of living they might be onto something. I'll wait 5 years and give it a shot!
@@monsterboomer8051 Of course with large tank ... I also own a KTM 690 Enduro. I used to own a DRZ-400. Neither of them is perfect but ... Kove "regular" with 20l would be perfect. KTM 690 with 20l would be perfect. For 80% off-road Kove is more then sufficient. For 50% off-road 690 is better.
Heya Solid, I live in Pune, where KTM India test their bikes. I saw the 390 Enduro, it's coming brother. Wait till December
Thanks...waiting...waiting....
😂
Hopefully with a 21" front wheel since in the spy shots this is not the case.
I'm waiting for the launch too bro
I rode my 25 year old DR650 to work and back today. She is wearing brand new Dunlop Trailmax Missions. I never knew she was such a capable road bike also!!!
I've done 1000+ miles in a day on a DR. It's better on superslab than many naked streetbikes, and I have DOT knobbies, 0 windscreen, stock seatfoam and aftermarket seat foam, 5gal tank, stock piston/cam/exhaust, 15/44 sprockets, etc. I ride the same DR in sandy, muddy, rocky, rooty, rutty singletrack. Weight can be shaved to as low as 320lb curb (per Procycle.us), and suspension can be upgraded to handle MX tracks.
If Suzuki did actually do it . and made an EFI 6spd DR650 they would dominate that area of the market place.
KTM 690 Enduro ... !
Yes they would.
That would be the ideal bike,it can go anywhere and easy to maintain at home.
I'd rather run a smartcarb or lectron than deal with some crappy EFI that doesn't properly account for altitude, like on my Beta 390
Or a six speed, EFI DRZ. I'd buy either one immediately.
Lots of truth here, even if is comes with a dollop of sadness.
The real solution is 2 bikes. One scary-fast for pavement and one dirt bike with turn signals. Buy the one you will use the most first, and 2-3 years old if you need to save 40% on the price.
Hope you feel better soon!
2-3 years old is 90% of the price of a new one
But, but....can you carry one on the other so, y'know, you'd be prepared for everything and ... uh... like way cool.
This is what the ADV industry needs: a 320 lbs or below 60HP ADV bike with a 5+ gallon tank, 19" front wheel, 17" back wheel with some Michelin Anakee Adventures on stock. That would be the unicorn bike.
I agree. Thinking of taking a 701LR and getting a 19" front wheel made. Currently have a 390 ADV and a Beta 390R. The 390 ADV just doesn't have quite enough grunt for me. I feel the A2 restriction has neutered the 400-500cc market.
@@godspeed44 beast idea bro! I'm a USA rider and my bike is a fully modded 701 supermoto. All the body mods are to drop weight since I came from a DRZ, but I'm debating setting up the LR gas tanks and turning it into a tourer. Still have a 17" front I'm so used to offroading with it I'm not pressed on a 19" rn I just wheelie over obstacles fr. Michelin Anakee Adventures are the best 80/20 tire I've tried btw they even handle wet grass surprisingly well
Why would it need street wheels? 19" / 17" tires are much more rare and expensive these days.
@@user-do1sr9wg1w cornering on the street. I switched from dirt bike to supermoto and I get so much more cornering performance on the street and I was hella surprised at how well I could still off-road on my 17s for a do everything bike it should corner like a street bike and ride like a dirt bike off-road. Me personally would do 17 17 but for most people they would probably prefer 19 17
@@Merc399 Ok, i have only had 21" bikes for 25 years. The best street performance was the KTM 950. But each to their own as they say.
I’ve just replaced my CRF300L suspension with a k tech razor shock and a 10nm fork spring re valved with the k tech valve kit. Cost me £800 for all parts and fitting and made a huge difference, as good as the cartridge kit just not adjustable at the forks but as long as you get the correct spring for your weight you don’t need them to be adjustable. It’s a great result for the price
Honda CRF450L Rally
I've changed CRF300L suspension to Hyperpro Streetbox - rear shock and front spring +7,5 oil. What I've noticed - bike is MUCH harder now, like on the opposite scale it was before. It is MUCH better on sand, more predictible, more controllable, better corners on asphalt, no more stress on three or more consecutive jumps. BUT I must admit that I sometimess miss that soft and soothing suspension when I need to ride for some relaxation - it had it's merits.
Well summed up. Same, I miss the squishy setting for some chill.
Anyone else getting lots of MT 450 TH-cam video recommendations? I'm wondering whether these are all paid reviews.
It's ok if it's soft if it has enough rebound damping and not too much sag, better for trialsy/hard enduro stuff. But that was also a problem with the WR250R's shock, it was like a pogo stick due to being soft without enough rebound damping.
Good news everyone. I just looked in the garage and I had a good look around the market place and the dr650 hasn't suddenly disappeared at all. It's still here! We don't need a substitute.
Unless you live in the purgatory of where high elevation riding amd low elevation riding coincide... I'm sick of changing needles mid-trip. I've been waiting for Suzuki to pull a Kawasaki KTM 690 trick on the DR for five years, since selling my DR. Live at 8k, most local riding is higher than that, or way way lower. I'm over carb hassles.
Thank you Sir for stating the obvious.
@@AmeriMutt76 good point. no roads above 3k here.
Hey Solid, hope your daughter is well! As a dr rider, a 390 is just to small to fit a full sized anglo dudes frame. Also, I know the internet will have everyone believe that the dr needs a six speed, however, I feel its kind of redundant with the torque curve of the 650. Juat go 14 tooth for local off road and 15 for touring. Efi on the other hand...
Procycle also offers wide-ratio gearsets for the DR and DR-Z.
Thanks, mate. Feel better. I'm in the States, and hopefully Honda will keep making the XR650L for 2025. Saving up but still not there. Cheers mate.
I've noticed a big jump in the use of the KTM/Husq 500cc and Honda crf450rl category as a light adventure motorcycle. As people have been using oil analyzes and that databank has increased for more reference, I've seen Round The World riders getting 2-4k kms out of each oil change AND getting 60k kms before their first valve adjustment. Motorcycles in this category are also getting long hours before top end rebuilds.
Adding a more comfortable seat, some wind protection and a bit more fuel range on a very good platform is still easier than swapping out all your suspension and squeezing an extra 2-5 horse power at a costly premium out of a regular dual sport
Fe350s is also an ideal platform, less vibrations.
The drz400 has been removed from the line up for 2025 in America. I suspect they are redesigning it with fuel injection. Hopefully they add a 6th gear.
i hadnt looked for a while, i wonder what they've got planned because they dont have anything else like it do they?>
Me too
Whaaa? Really? I missed the "new colors" post this year, no DRZ mentioned? One can hope, and save...
@@AmeriMutt76 they are banned in aus is what this guy is saying due to emissions, yet I see the cops sporting new yellow ones gotta stop that GLOBAL WARMING
KOVE 450 Rally is the best out the box dualsport right now in my humble opinion. Many reasons to love and hate it but if it would carry a Honda badge it would sell like CRAZY. They still need to prove hardware longevity and long term customer support.
@@toqtoq3361 As near as makes no difference it's the same weight as Tuareg 660 and Tenere 700. Awesome pricepoint and very cool to see a 450 twin cylider but I agree in that it's more in the midweight adv category than an actual dualsport.
Also increasingly difficult or almost impossible to avoid products made in China even from the biggest european brands.
I find it kinda interesting how normalized it is that almost all our electronics we use daily come from China and then when it comes to motorcycles it is a huge issue.. Something to think about 🤔 I'm not here to moralize or be a talking head to any brand though.
400+ pound bikes on any trail is a joke 😂
No thanks China.
@@habibi750 ikr I definitely don't want any bike heavier than my WR250R, which is probably 310lbs wet. Compared to a 260lb enduro it's a huge difference, feels like a boat
I dunno, the Kove seems like the perfect bike for people who don't ride off road but who want to say they do.
Probably would sell well tho, there's plenty of 4x4 trucks and suvs that never leave pavement too.
My 2019 CRF450L came with 2 x ECU’s . One USA spec and the other the European spec. I can say,as someone who has come from a Husqvarna FE501, that the CRF with the USA spec ECU is close to the FE501 in terms of power. It does still need a pipe to get the maximum out of the engine. Do not be put off by these bikes , they are truly amazing.
After years of trying adv bikes, heavier end dual sports like the wr250r/crf300l and converted enduro bikes, I've come to the conclusion that I've wasted my time and money trying to find/achieve the perfect 50/50. Why is that you'll ask? Well, if you wanna have the most fun offroad, youll have it with real offroad tyres, mounted on the lightest bike possible with the most balanced amount of power for your level and needs(in my case any enduro 250 4 stroke fits the bill) and if you wanna have the most fun onroad, youll have it with full onroad tyres on the bike that best fits your needs, of course you can have plenty of fun riding a dual sport/adv bike but 50/50 tyres just dont allow you to use the full potential of your bike offroad, a heavy dual sport/adv bike is okay but after trying a real enduro bike imo there is no going back, there is just no comparisson, yes I understand that people who wanna have a big adventure will benefit from a lightweight adv bike with lower maintainance (AJP PR7 is the best bike for this purpose imo) but lets be real here, most of us spend years planning that big trip which just never happens, and in the meantime spend our precious time riding a bike that is just not as fun or as capable because we handicaped ourselves with the idea of riding to another place far away, for years looking for and riding bikes on the search for the best 50/50 compromise ive just come to the conclusion that i have been missing out on the fun and capabilities of a full offroad machine just because I did not want to purchase a cheap/small van to transport a bike to the trails or even the track lol. Sorry for the rant, this is just my opinion but wanted to share, maybe its useful to someone.
You are totally right, I experienced it with normal bikes.
But having a dedicated transport vehicule or trailer is a huge investment, not even talking about the fuel usage ...
Best thing is having a level head and do what the bike can do / is designed for, even if you have to close some doors to open other for it.
Wanted to do some MTB trails but realisticly a MTB would have been to specialized for my wallet and my needs. Oh well, took a nice all trail / all terrain bike and explored other things
CF moto 450. Job done, end of. Damn good value to.
Ran the 2019 CRF450L for 2 years and liked it but being 6 foot 200lbs the mods needed to the suspension and the tuning issues I swapped it for a 2023 Beta 390rrs. No tuning problems and the suspension is a major improvement even in it's stock form.
My 690 KTM Enduro is middleweight, and its an adventure bike. I am not 100% sure if 10kg less would make a real difference offroad, and on the road the engine is great as well.
The KTM 640 Adventure came out a not long after I bought my 1100 GS. The big thumper and narrow seat wouldn't be great on a long trip. The 390 Adventure looks like an update to that bike. The longevity and aftermarket support have come a way since then. I would be interested in this for long distance travel.
CFmoto 450mt, taken mine from Sydney to Ayers Rock this week, it’s been bloody fantastic. Fully loaded averaging 4L per hundred.
It's still Chinese.
@@Deertracks123
And makes many parts for KTM, Yamaha, BMW, and I believe used to do some Kawasaki in Polaris parts back in the day. I have a 450 NK and can’t wait for the MT edition and 53 years of riding. This is probably the smoothest best put together bike I’ve ever owned and I am the first personto denounce Chinese. But it is what it is.
@@Deertracks123. Most parts on bikes are from China.
Answer, Beta 390 110KG Long stroke piston torque monster.
Sure looks like the dual sport best in class to me. However, the guys at Traction E-rag had a tough time keeping a fleet of them running, and switched to CRF 250. To be fair, that is a rental fleet, but still...
I have one. It just needs a bigger oil pan and wider gears, and maybe some counterbalancing. Also the ECU tuning is annoying to say the least, especially with altitude. Although that might've changed with the latest firmware update.
For a dual sport I'd rather have a 500. Although the 390 is fine, it's a bit more stressed on the road, and the 500 isn't too heavy. Might as well have a 500 4t and a 200 2t. A lightweight bike with cheap but well set up suspension and a cheap air cooled overbuilt/down tuned 500 engine would be awesome. It would kinda suck if it made any less power than a KLR650 though
I'm 75-years old. Ridden my wonderful Benelli TRK502 15,000 on and off road in New Zealand.
Plenty powerful enough. With that great old "Triumph" twin sound. Cruise easily at 115kmh on the road.
Bit heavy, but not too tall for us short old buggers
The std Givi bags included are superb. A steal!
No problems at all. Serviced by me. One of the best of the 29-motorcycles I have owned.
And there is a long waiting list here for the 700cc version.
The bike is always left out of comparison tests ~ big mistake!
I test rode a Triumph Scrambler 400 recently. Such a fun bike on the street even if under powered, I think it has the potential for dual sport applications. Well worth a look.
excellent video. this subject has been on my mind a lot lately and you really drilled down to the important comparisons to make. i could really see the new 390 enduro being a unicorn bike. I used to own a Vitpilen 401 from that platform and it was a blast to ride. Or like you say, a new DR 650 with EFI and 6 gears and i'm sold.
It's interesting to hear you say this new 390 may be the replacement for the DR650. The 690/701 platform already exists and I'd say it's much closer to that mark in everything but price. The modern ones have proven be pretty solid in terms of reliability and the performance difference is worth the price difference for sure. I went from a DR650 to a 701 enduro, I loved my DR but the 701 makes the DR feel like a cheap chinese knock-off. Which it probably should do that as the msrp is nearly double. If my market(PNW region of USA) is an accurate reflection of the rest of the world, you can get some killer deals. I paid $7500 for my 2019 701 with 2k miles on it. Easily a much better buy than a DR650, it's not even a question. The weight is fine, the power is amazing, and the suspension is good from the factory.
People talk about the unicorn, but honestly unicorns are just impossible. Everyone has their own subjective idea of what a unicorn is. For some people, the 50/50 bike looks like an adventurized 500 exc. For others, that bike still isn't quite good enough on the road. For me it's the adventurized 701 for sure. For others it's something like the T7 or 890. There's a lot of factors here. I have a buddy who rides an 890R like it's a dirtbike, he can outride me on single track easily and he does a lot of crazy shit on his bike. He's skilled enough that he doesn't need to make the weight trade off for performance like I do. In his hands, the 890R is more offroad capable and more road capable than the 701 is in my hands. For some people, good performance on technical two track is enough. For others, they want their unicorn to do tight woods single track like a 500exc would. I have a friend with a 501 and it's his unicorn, he just needs a bike that can do the sub-1 hour of road riding to get to the harder single track he wants to do.
Ultimately if you want the unicorn you have to build it yourself. Personally I've found the 701 to be the perfect 50/50 unicorn platform, but I still had to put work into it to tailor it to my needs. On top of that, basically any 50/50 bike is kinda killed if you're able to have 2 bikes. Having like a 350/500exc and a T7/890R is always gonna be better than just having a 701.
@@Michael_Shay for me it comes down to the tire choice actually. If you put proper knobbies on an 890 or 901, you don't have a lot of street benefits compared to a 701 except for some fairing and that can easily be fixed. And in most parts of Europe there aren't really any "trails" that you need an exc/fe type of bike, unless you are doing laps on tracks that are a few km. So, i guess you need at least 3 bikes. A 901 with 50/50 tires, a 701 with knobbies, a 250 fe for the woods enduro tracks, Oh and a 501 or 450 for Rally racing. But choosing one, it would be the 701 😁 (and that's what i've got)
Ah absolutely not, as a dual sport maybe, as a serious adventure bike the 701 is not in the same league as the DR because reliability is a key factor. The DR might be a tractor by comparison but it will pretty much always bring you back home
If you get a KTech rear shock for the 300L, add 80 pounds to your weight and use that as your spring rating, unless you like bottoming out or just ride pavement.
Honda needs a de-tuned CRF 450 (enduro/adventure) that has the same maintenance interval as a CRF300.
Hope you are feeling better real soon 🙏! What the KTM 390 lacks is low speed torque, and having owned all three I’d have to say the best “replacement” for the DR650 is the KTM 690 Enduro 😉.
For 20 years I have ridden only Japanese bikes but just recently bought a KTM just to see what the fuss is all about. After 400 casual miles, the bike doesn't start anymore. Turns out the battery somehow "went bad". Put in a new battery, connected the positive terminal and when connecting the negative, it throws sparks. Never buying KTMs again.
I am sorry for you man, what a shitshow :/ At the same time I needed that comment as my mind is starting playing tricks on me on buying a KTM 690 Enduro / 701 enduro. Guess KTM will always be like that
@@n03m9 Thanks. I still connected the new battery and so far things seem to be working, although can never be sure for how long, wouldn't want to be replacing the battery every 400 miles 😁. Nevertheless, the confidence is lost. I suppose with KTM the buyer just needs to be willing to trade some reliability and headaches dealing with dealerships for the bike's fun characteristics. And with enough luck, there may be no reliability issues at all.
Especially as they are now getting manufacturing done by China.
@@akuskusI’ve owned 13 KTMs since 1988 and every one of them have been nuclear bomb-proof.
The US Supreme Court just overruled Chevron, which puts the EPA in check. This opens up the door for updates to the Suzuki DR and DRZed.
The US is not a very large motorcycle market for dual sports. In absolute numbers, it's tiny.
@MichaelMoonwriter Do you have any documentation to prove this, or are just popping your mouth off? The USA buys 50% of all dirt bikes made. Why would you think dual sports wouldn't be the same?
The country that buys the most dirt bikes depends on the region, but North America is the largest market overall:
North America
In 2023, North America had the largest share of the dirt bike market, accounting for about half of it in 2021. The United States is the largest market within North America, with an estimated 8.6 million dirt bike riders. The US's popularity of dirt biking can be attributed to its long history of motorcycle racing and many off-road riding opportunities.
If they put a 6th gear on the DRZ400 my KLX300 is gone , even though it is a great Bike...
Local KTM dealer mentioned due to clips of 390 Adventure Enduro R being published from India, that they are invited to a meeting with KTM in a few weeks. Another local KTM dealer can only state that the 450 MT, which they themselves do not sell, is sold out and more are waiting in line and that it is the 450-600cc Adventure + Dual Sport models the market want to buy. Especially now with inflation and recession. The market in India is in demand for RC 490 Duke Adv Enduro R , i.e. middle class bikes. But the manufacturers still don't seem to understand the market.
Suzuki has had the DR-Z400S for decades. Procycle offers wide-ratio gearsets and other goodies for it.
Ditto for the Mighty DR.
Solid - I don’t hear you discussing the new RE 450 Himalayan? Won’t that suit an on/off-road requirement? We don’t have it here in the USA yet, but I’m down to test one as soon as it comes out.
Eat more oranges! (for your illness)
About ram-air effect: The ZX4R makes 77hp without RAM an 80hp with RAM - this is at top speed (~240km/h)
Very marginal gain for sure, but in racing that matters - and it makes it look just that little bit more like the bikes your idols ride
Hey, Solid. Why are people ignoring the Himi 450 as a DR 650 replacement? It has the same output numbers yet smaller capacity. Under 200 kilos and built to be an all round Swiss Army knife bike. Royal Enfield can't seem to import enough of them
I think it’s down to off road ability and weight. It’s a good 30kg heavier and not as off road focused. It’s also early days for the 450.
The suspension has less clearance than the DR, which already bare minimum travel, for trail riding. Also non-adjustable. And it's a pretty heavy bike
Can confirm … the gen3 is struggling a lot in the woods.
Good vid. We still get the DR Have three years wirth to choose from. 6500 to 7000 USD.
Good stuff as always...and I agree that when I bought my 990 in 08, people thought we were crazy to be taking them on "wide" single track trails. There is something special about putting big bikes in small places. Hope you heal fast!
I had a WR250R and while they’re good at most things if you put soft panniers on them and go on an adventure you will not keep up with your mates if they decide to sit on 100-110 into a headwind or on corrugations .
Also you need to cover the headlight before hills
That’s the CRF300L is no unicorn
drz400e 39.8hp at the wheel stock
crf450rl 38hp at the wheel stock
xr400r 31hp at the wheel stock
crf300l 22.7hp at the wheel stock
Hope you feel better Solid ! I keep forgetting that it is Winter there in dual sport paradise.
Thanks Bill, rides have been a bit soggy😅
Thanks, Solid, for taking the time to make this video, I hope by now you are feeling much better .
I’m 70 bought a crf300L as my last bike , but it’s still heavy. I would love a lighter more powerful bike.
I think the lines between enduro, dual sport, and adventure bikes have been blurred since adventure bikes became popularized as the cool, trendy option.
A small light bike for offroad is never going to blend with a higher powered, on road cruising machine. The qualities of offroad bikes differ vastly between a comfortable bike for long distance highway cruising.
1 bike to do everything is going to be a compromise, either in handling, power, comfort, or reliability.
Personally, a yz250x is great for the offroad riding i do. That frees me up to have a dyna for long distance trips and an mt09 for shorter fun riding. No 1 bike is capable of everything.
I've gone the enduro route. 2024 FE501, be aware, spanner men who I really appreciate and respect say it is a bitch to work on, but it is a dream to ride off road in tough terrain, very good on twin track and surprisingly good on the road. But that's with a Nomad fairing, cush drive rear wheel, balanced wheels, Seat Concepts seat, a largely useless larger tank (fuel pump in a stupid place) steering damper and in my pretty talentless hands, that set up is my unicorn for mixed on and off trail riding. Its 40 kg lighter than my 701 and the 701 was pretty bloody good, but the 501 is amazing.
Do you think there’s enough difference to have both 701 and 500?
@@timbrandt7211 I thought there would be and I love my 701 but the 701 has barely moved since I got the 501. The 701 (2016, totally reliable and made into a light adventure bike) is being sold. I have a Tiger 900 Rally which is my road and easy lane bike. The 900 on knobblies is surprisingly good off road.
@@TheIdlesurferinteresting. I have the 690 and 990 right now, trying to add an EXC to the mix for nice triple combo steed, but you got me thinking about just 2 with the 500/501. Maybe if I get a small enough model like a 250. Hmm.
@@timbrandt7211 Two friends and I have all had the big adv bike, 701 and 501. 2 of us have or are selling the 701s. My other 701 mate who can ride lanes just to go to the shops is keeping his 701, but he was thinking about selling it. The 701 is magnificent and if I had just one bike, it would be an adventured 701, but mine sits as the middle child, loved but easy to forget.
I would love to see you test and compare an old XR650r to all these bikes
Hay brother, I had the first XRL (1993).You take off the smog junk, rejet the carb and take off that restricted muffler. And I got 46hp out of mine. At 350 lbs, (158kg) that's a good power to wight 0:02 figure.
Xr650r in my garage will never be sold. It does anything but tight single track ( I know some people do take it in single track). I have a 300 two stroke for that. Everything else is xr650r
@@otxilac11 I should have bought one but I have a Crf300l and an XR250 might trade the XR250 in on a XR650 soon
@@otxilac11 Lucky you. I still remember seeing them brand new in the show room during the last year they were on sale. I almost pulled the trigger on one but instead went with a KTM520 The KTM was an unreliable piece of euro trash. Wish I'd have made a different choice.
For me, a middle weight is a motorcycle that I can lift every 10 times in a row i'm 180cm, 100kg military person
Discussion about Unicorn shall last forever. Perhaps we don't have unicorn but we have a closest thing possible: Narwhal. That is Husqvarna 701 Enduro with comfort seat and long range tanks. Or KTM 690. All the rest, including KTM 390 are falling short of Unicorn status even if upgraded with 490 engine. 790/690 can be easy modified to suit your daily needs by mounting 17'' wheels and turning them into superb SM vehicles that will suit city riding to office. Search no more.
If you really want the best suspension for the CRF300 go with the Rally raid/tractive products ❤
The new Himalayan 450 is a 452 cc single cylinder liquid cooled bike that generates 40hp and 40 Nm. It is a proper off road bike with great ground clearance and suspension. Another Indian brand Hero is said to be testing its new 400cc off road bike that will produce similar numbers. That is also said to be single cylinder liquid cooled.
The Himalayan is an Adventure Bike. It's capable but even with it's now taller suspension will still bottom out and is heavier than these smaller bikes. It's closer to the KLR650 than the 390. There's no perfect bike. The Himi is better on the road than the smaller bikes, but not better off-road in more difficult terrain. You have to ask yourself if you'd rather pick up an extra 30kg-70kg 30x b/c in higher difficulty off-road you will drop your bike.
You could also take a 1200GS in most places, but it's not going to out perform a dirt bike or light weight ADV. The Himmi is a middle weight.
Hope you are feeling better soon mate, my opinion is with today's technology the big companies could easily make a Unicorn bike around the 400 to 600 size. But their profit margins on the bigger flag ships are much better for themselves. It's like cutting their own throats. Until a smaller company destroys them & captures the market. I'll put a years wages on a Chinese company doing exactly this if they haven't made that bike already. They're not stupid & theyre making a play at it. It might take a few years to get that good reputation for reliability. But they'll get there.
Hit the nail on the head 👍
I also agree, for examples in central and South America, 85% of all the motorcycles are sub150cc, and most of them are made in China, including hondas Suzuks and yamahas, even the xr150l that sells in the usa is made in China, So in that way they can be part of that segment, another way for Japanese companies to be competitive is by keep doing what they have been doing over the past few years and that is to keep expanding their manufacturing in Thailand, Brazil and other small countries, So I think the Japanese brands are very aware of the game and they are playing their cards, but in a different way that can not always be seen positively especially right away, but on the other hand is also good that China is making better bikes themselves because competition is good 👍
Hi Solid
You have spoken in the past about the DRZ400E and why hasn't Suzuki upgraded with a 6 speed gearbox and fuel injection
I own a 2011 DRZ400E and I was at the Suzuki dealership who also have Husky's and KTM's getting some parts. I spoke to the sales man and had a look at the latest DRZ
He was telling me tthe DRZ's where brought into Australia as a primary industry bike and thats why you can still get them here.. he said they are not available in NZ. He went onto to say farmers here were switching to 390 KTM's because the Suzuki is getting expensive at $12,000
The other interesting thing he told me was that they had a visit from a Suzuki guy from Japan and he said there was a rumor that Suzuki may get out of dirt bikes and concentate on Electric and Hydrogen road bikes
I guess we'll see what happens
PS. Love my DRZ400E
Just for the records, the gs1100, 30 years ago was officially 243 kg (likely real weight was even higher). It’s not one story of the last 10 or 20 years. And also bwm is doing a 21 inch wheel middleweight since 2008.
What you are saying is that bikes have become heavier and therefore definitions of middleweight have changed by manufacturers have become heavier. Despite what you have suggested in the past about market latent demand for lighter adventure bikes... 😮
Often wonder if Suzuki could build a DRZ500/DR550 as replacement for the old DRZ and DR. I suspect it would be heavier than most would like. Ideally it be 340-350 lbs, 45 hp, and 45 lb-ft torque, and 3 gallons of gas. Fuel injection, A sixth gear, good gear ratios, and CRF300L ergo's could make a killer bike.
More than the ram air advantage, the high forward intake allow for less likely water ingestion. I'm tired of airboxes under the seat. I live in Central America and during rainy season the water gets deep and I have come close to drowning my under seat intake box bike.
Great stuff, thanks for battling through the illness. Keep up the good work.
Nunca cambiaré mi DR650 por nada,dudo que creen una moto tan a mi gusto,saludos¡
Irreplaceable 👍
there is the GS class, those are Super Havyweights. The Aprilia 660 the Tenere and the 990 KTM-Husquarna would be Light Heavyweight ... Then bikes under 200kg could be called middleweight :)
Well I can only pray that it comes from Yamaha when we get it! This 300l has me quite underwhelmed anymore.
Weight is still the issue here. My 701 Husky is under 160kg fully fuelled yet there’s the lighter 400cc alternative? I rode a Kove 450 in the States of a month back. Sadly it had a hideously loud can on it and ability hadn’t been properly set up so hard to get a balanced view. The engine needs hard revving to get it moving and heavy engine braking made it feel very on/off. Potentially a great dual sport with monster range.
KTM dropping the 450twin is the biggest mistral they have mad since they dropped Ewan and Charlie!
I can see that the 390 will be the lightest way to get 40hp I just hope it doesn’t come at the price of frequent expensive servicing.
An entire TH-cam channel devoted to wishing for some motorbike that doesn’t exist. 😵💫
And 37.5K followers also looking for that bike 😊
Always wanting that unicorn bike. Haha
@rickayres9049 yep, I'm one. A 50/50 bike that you can lift 10 or more times in a day, and actually ride single-track while still riding highways comfortably (not necessarily Interstates)
@@AmeriMutt76As an owner of a 390 ADV I don’t think I’d want to pick it up 10 times per day. How about a KLX 300 ?
Kove 450 rally already available for the US Market.
I think KTM has brought over 200 different NEW model lines to market since the last time Suzuki has done 1.
Closest today is CFMoto450MT worldwide as the DR’s are now gone other than AUS & USA 🤷🏻♂️
I was very tempted to put a deposit down when they were announced with the 175kgs as I wanted something a little bit better offroad than my leoncino. I stopped myself because I already heavily modified it to be lighter and cope better with rough terrain despite the 19inch front. Man when the specs came out i was really glad i didn't do it, 196kgs is actually heavier than mine and that's before adding protection, it's also slower despite the grearing being a lot shorter. The advantages would be the suspension and the 21 front, but that 43mm suspension flexes a lot under load. In the end I didn't want to loose that much street perfomance so I'll be keeping the scrambler for a bit more time. And yes I already did test ride on one of my mate's, only on the street mind you.
Oh, btw, I haven't had a single day sick since I started masking. I don't miss it.
Motorcycle Weight classes : where Mohomad Ali would now be the Fly Weight Boxing Champion of the World
Three weight classes : flagship middleweight beginner : where WEIGHT & DISPLACEMENT have no effect on class ... MARKETING is QUEEN
Where is that 40hp 400 unicorn: it’s called the 501 and 500 EXC.
Except it’s not
The Tenere 700 in the spy shot DOES NOT HAVE RAM-AIR!!! It is clearly the World Raid model and has the same ducting as the outgoing model. Look at pictures of the current World Raid. I suppose it is some kind of duct to mix cool air with warm air from the radiator to reduce the heat coming out of the outlets on the side of the fairing. Can't say for sure tho, I have the Extreme Edition.
Dunno. Sounds high-strung.
Thanks!
Thanks Leonardo, appreciate it 👍
The KTM390 is more likely to be a viable alternative for the DRZ than the DR650. It's just so far removed from the DR650 that it's hard to compare.
Do you think BMW will make the bike they obviously are super keen to make? An R1800gsa weighing 500kg dry? They've got the motor and their riders seem to like super heavy bikes (think 850gs adv at 260kg)
New tenere have side saddle fuel tanks? What the black covering hiding?
Did race tech front and rear spring tires ,bars tubes been happy.
There is a turbo available for the Yamaha CP2 engine.
yep riding offroad in the UK is so bad, where is allowed is reducing and even places that are allowed local people try to be super difficult
Dam shame
Just because the biggest bikes keep getting bigger does not mean we need to redefine "middle-weight". We need a new term for the 1200cc+ bikes rather than calling 1000cc a middleweight.
Weights are arbitrary as is trying to create standardised weight divisions. Heavier bikes can handle better and carry their weight better than lighter bikes (within reason) and at the end of the day the rider is the deciding factor. Skill, Experience, Strength, Balance, Agility and Mindset. What one finds unmanageable on certain terrain another has no issues with. Riders also have to make compromises and weigh a bikes strengths and weaknesses against their own and what they are capable of and want to do.
No one can clearly delineate that X , Y or Z weight a bike is suddenly and arbitrarily better or worse suited to Adv riding.
IMO the community needs to stop talking about imaginary weight divisions and simple talk about how the weight is carried and affects performance and handling. The rest is up to the rider.
Where you can still get them, bikes like the dr650 or xr650l with a hand full of mods are still really good adv bikes.
The cfmoto 450 will sell well as there's nothing quite that size in a lot of places. I have ben around a bunch of cfmoto atv's, I wouldnt trust the cfmoto adv bike at all long term. They put a ton of electronic bs on that bike and that's what fails on cheap chinese bikes.
I want a 690 power in 500exc or 450xc weight.
Kove 800x
put an SXS570 kit on it then you'll have 70 plus HP.
Fantic Caballero 700...Is it offered where you live?
Hey mate can you do something on the DE 800?
Why do thing the 390 will not be reliable? Or mark it as a new bike? Is has the 390 engine - maybe the next generation but definitely not a new one… so the new things will be rims or suspension- which not very likely to break in my opinion. The plastics - also not really a deal breaker in opinion. What makes you think this not a good joice?
A 390 enduro is basically a drz400, probably worse, so its not a replacement for a dr650, the dr650 has tractor like torque, where you have to rev the drz and 390 to get anywhere
And that is the answer, low end torque+light weight+good rel=the DR650
New Beta Alp 4.0 looks to be OK at 35HP.
MT450 is the new DR650 but with a smoother and more fun motor
I'm ( a fairly fit) 58 and am returning to biking after a 20 year break, I'm not interested in huge power just a fairly lightweight bike for the 4 mile commute to work and weekend light off roading...I really can't decide between the Honda CRF 300 rally and Motor Morini Xcape 650, obviously one is bigger and heavier than the other but the new cost is the same...if the Suzuki DRZ 400 was still available in the UK then that would be my first choice....any thoughts would be welcome.
60 years old here! I keep stepping down in size mostly due to the weight of the bikes. My current ride is the Beta 390rrs and love the power to weight ratio.
check out the 390adv. It is an "all trail" bike rather than a true "offroader" as the 300R is BUT it is far better for the road, has better safety tech AND its suspension is actually good enough out of the box contrary to the 300R has which can have limitations.
Fantic 450 XEF Rally. ...140kg with all fuels...rhats 25kg lighter than the Kove. Its got the Yamaha 450 engine(bullet proof) proven Dakar finisher.... didn't blow up like the 3 koves (allegedly did)... Race map by fantic, kevlar engine shield, carpe iter navigation as standard....yes its 4grand more than the kove, but just LOOK at what you get!!
Isn't the 40hp 400ish cc dual sport the MT450 from CFMoto
The KLX 300 has adjustable suspension
The cure for calling a heavy bike "middleweight" is to start calling the "flagship" bikes & let's be honest, that means BMW GS, what they truly are, HEAVYWEIGHTS, BARGE-BIKES or BLOAT-BIKES.
You could try new Beta ALP 4.0 '24
Don't know much .but CF Moto 450 looks sex on wheels if it wasn't Chinese 😅
Mate I have never even considered a Chiner bike but they are making inroads, and with the cost of living they might be onto something. I'll wait 5 years and give it a shot!
@@CRFLAus haven't ridden to one but looks like they took up the slack big time
The answer is Kove 450 Rally
NOPE!!!
@@jonwoodworker Because it's Chinese ? ... get over it dude.
@@johnmoser1162 Do you own one? Of course you don't.
@@monsterboomer8051 Of course with large tank ... I also own a KTM 690 Enduro. I used to own a DRZ-400.
Neither of them is perfect but ... Kove "regular" with 20l would be perfect. KTM 690 with 20l would be perfect.
For 80% off-road Kove is more then sufficient. For 50% off-road 690 is better.
@johnmoser1162 Nope!!! Because is a clown bike made with clown parts.
I've had a lot of bikes.. but the one I kick myself for selling was a 500exc😂😂
why cap?
it is summer,looks silly
So the KTM 500 excf is still king.... noted.