I grinded NL5 zoom for a month and made 60 buy ins. Over 120K hands. Moved up to NL10 with a plan of staying there until I was down 20 buy ins. I didnt believe that would happen since I had a 20BB/100 win rate at NL5. But it happened. NL10 was a completely different game. I have adjusted my play but I am not beating the limit yet.
That's odd, there really isn't that much of a difference between nl5 zoom and nl10 zoom. I'd say you got hit with some very good variance for those 120k hands, then maybe you got hit with some bad variance at nl10. There's no way that if you winning at 20bb winrate for nl5 that you are not beating nl10. something isn't adding up.
@@dvh6298 hmmmm I didn't try to calculate the win rate. So it seems that the OP has miscalculated his nl5 win rate to be 400% better than it actually is 🙄that explains it
If you're playing online and have set it up to automatically top off your stack when it goes below 100BB (on sites that allow auto top off), you need to make sure that you do not (completely) overlook the effect of the top-off. And it can happen pretty quickly while multi-tabling. a few trips thru the blinds and a raise and a fold to a 3B, or Cbetting the flop and folding to a raise, and you could find yourself in for 3 buy-ins (or more) instead of 2. James' suggestion to reduce the number of tables you're playing is especially important here.
@@samuelmckinnon6976 I'd probably start on 1 table. I prefer playing 100BB or more, and you could easily find yourself 2 tabling w/ 80bb or less on both tables. unless you have a solid knowledge of strategy w/ < 100BB, you could end up making mistakes (like calling when you don't have implied odds). I suppose if the tables you are playing on are already mostly shorter stacks then having 2 "no top off" tables would be OK, as the effective stack would be
@@ekw555 Yeah thanks mate. I think that's a good call. Always making way more notes on players and understanding different game styles when I'm 1 tabling as well.
Interesting video. I've set some goals to meet before I move from NL2 to NL5, but based on your video I'm actually ready to take some shots. I love the idea of taking a few shots and moving down rather quickly.
@@ThePokerBank Thanks once more for this video James. An aggressive strategy for climbing up (and down) the stakes makes the whole journey a lot shorter. And last night I earned my first shot on 50NL. Also currently working in your math & preflop workbook, good stuff!
I’m sticking to this strategy along with your BRM video and it’s been working like a charm. Only problem is, I’ve built up Bankroll to be able to take the 2 buy-in shot at the next limit and have lost 4-5 times lol (lost track of exactly how many times). Not sure what to do! Thinking I need to tighten up a bit.
Cheers! As for the actual move up, try to stick to the exact same strategy you normally use and avoid making huge strategic modifications until you have info on the new players/pool. It can take a few times for the shot to take, just keep grinding =)
As a 1/2 rec, I need > my current $3k to take a shot at $2/5 w $500-1k buyin. I'll have to try at some point to move up from $300 max 1/2 tho. Only play a few times per month tho.
If, as some say, standard buyin is 100bb, then: $7.5k and $1-2k shot take is more reasonable for $1k max 2/5 tables. Esp on high hand days where 30 min High Hand jackpot doubles at 2/5 vs 1/2. NOT that I'm chasing or relying on hitting HH, but find these days bring out a more beatable opponent pool than usual.
I am down with online poker but you have so much content and if I can be patient and not chase I can do good I get anxious but when I follow what iv learned is the only time I win thank you … if you have work books or any other content I’d love it or even if you have a virtual hands on training please let me know …
Like the 15/2 idea... been trying to build a bankroll for 3 months now. For some reason, been cashing out when i win. Step back when i lose. Think i needed some outside influence to build the roll
Tourneys need a much higher # of buy-ins in ur BR than the 15 before taking a shot due to the much higher variance. The # is up to u based on ur individual makeup and situation. 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, etc. Pick one.
Cheers Scott! I think Jay Zee's comment is fair and my answer would likely be something around 25BI for a single-MTT shot and closer to 35BI for a shot taking multiple MTTs (like a series). Keep in mind that these are based upon my own comfort levels though.
It would take you such an extreme number of hours to "ensure" your winrate playing live. Based your preparedness less on results/WR and more on things like "how often are you utterly confused during a session" and "how often does your post-session HH analysis match up with the real-time lines you' took"?
In my opinion it isn't hours at all, it is the bankroll size. If you're winning, you know because your bankroll keeps going up. Time involved for purposes of bankroll to game size is irrelevant. In a winning situation, you won't have 15 buy-ins anymore you'll have 40. Your bankroll is the guide to the game size, it is the measure of if you are winning or not, if you can move up or need to move down. It is the bankroll.
@@hankfowler8194 I think you have Global Poker available to you. Not much else is legally available in the USA if you don't live in one of the few states where it's regulated.
Thank you for this video, I have a bankroll of 100$ and was planning on playing nl2 until I get to 250$ which seems too much, as I play for the moment 2 tables, and willing to attack to 3 tables next week. I've been playing for 2 weeks which is not that much, so of course too early to play nl5, but I've been doing not that bad, better than expected, and the best thing is that I'm able to see where are my mistakes. This video made me realize that I'd be stuck for too long playing nl2, so as long I get to 130$ and after 1 month (2weeks left), I'll get to nl5
love your videos .learned so much.Can you explain why you dislike limping and rather open with a raise .Are you not putting more money in the pot pre with an inferior hand most of the time .thanks
The difference for me between 2nl and 5nl was basically negligible. Even 10nl wasn't that bad but i've taken shots at 25nl and it is soooooo much harder and i haven't played that much live poker but 25nl feels harder than 1/2 live
I’ve been playing more 2/5 at my local casinos which only have a max buy in of $200-$300. I’ve found that those games are softer than even the .50/1 or 1/2 games I play on poker2. The problem is I’m not used to sitting with such deep stacks when I do build it up, and decide to leave when I do. The other day i stuck around with a big stack I made a bad fold cause of the stakes that I would’ve played differently had I been shallower. Any way to overcome this?
This is why live poker is so intimidating for me. I have way more fun but im honestly not bankrolled enough and it definitely makes me play worse overall i think
The only way to work around this is to keep studying deeper strategy and continue playing in sessions where effective stacks get deeper. There are the mental AND strategic components to this problem 😁
2nl playing it for a year, can win a 10/25nl, but don't have the cash and tilt has made me go but many times, keep going back to 2nl but it is so boring, building from 2nl seems like such a waste of time, sometimes I can but AA 2 times in a row vs QTs, QTo, KK, 55.... even 89 jammed on busting my aces, AKs
Wow, that aggressiv… in Germany you get tought a 40 buyin strategy. I‘m struggling even winning at NL50 since several months with a 50 buyin bankroll… shall I move up anyway to NL100 with respectively 25 buyins?
@@toniweigl9783 Its a flexible strategy. U can move back down if necessary. So move up to NL100 with ur 25 buy ins. If u go down to, say, 20 buy ins, move back down to NL50 with ur 40 buy ins and build back up to 50 buy ins, then move back up to NL100 with 25 buy ins. Eventually, you'll start building up at NL100 and you'll be able to stay there and build up to 50 buy ins there, then try NL200 with 25 buy ins, etc.
Think of it less as "moving up and 100NL is my new homebase" and more of "taking some shots at 100NL to attempt to move up quicker". Given what you've laid out, if you think you are struggling to win at 50NL, I would increase my study:play ratio until I feel more confident, and then begin taking shots aggressively.
Would you say this is essentially similar to the advice of having a bankroll of 5,000 to 10,000 big blinds within whatever stakes you're wanting to play?
Like the other commentors said, no given that's 50-100BI. If you are a full-time pro with no other sources of income, that's likely fine. However, for 99.8% of players, 50-100BI is far too conservative imo.
"It depends". How willing are you to keep feeding fresh money into poker? The high buy-ins to stake as PokerBank said is for pros i.e., people who get their money from poker, so can't put any fresh money into it. So, if you have $1,000 you're willing to risk playing poker and you don't want to put another cent into it, play NL10 as your biggest game. If you lose, you may have to go down to NL5 NL2 etc. On the flip side, if you have $1,000 a day you can put into poker, then go play some NL200 or NL500 or even NL1000. Just keep feeding it with the new money if you lose each day. You won't move up as fast with 50-100 buy-ins but you probably won't have to put another cent into poker, ever again.
15BI for the *next* level = 30+ for the current level (and 25+ if the shot goes poorly and you rebuild at the current limit). For non-pros, this is totally fine.
I like this guy. It’s very pragmatic of him to take into account the potential profitability of things outside of poker.
I grinded NL5 zoom for a month and made 60 buy ins. Over 120K hands. Moved up to NL10 with a plan of staying there until I was down 20 buy ins. I didnt believe that would happen since I had a 20BB/100 win rate at NL5. But it happened. NL10 was a completely different game. I have adjusted my play but I am not beating the limit yet.
That's odd, there really isn't that much of a difference between nl5 zoom and nl10 zoom. I'd say you got hit with some very good variance for those 120k hands, then maybe you got hit with some bad variance at nl10. There's no way that if you winning at 20bb winrate for nl5 that you are not beating nl10. something isn't adding up.
@@IronFist2508I mean if he won 60 buy ins over 120k hands that should "only" be a 5 BB/100 win rate. Should still be enough to beat 10nl though...
@@dvh6298 hmmmm I didn't try to calculate the win rate. So it seems that the OP has miscalculated his nl5 win rate to be 400% better than it actually is 🙄that explains it
60 buyin over 120k hands is not 20bb/100
If you're playing online and have set it up to automatically top off your stack when it goes below 100BB (on sites that allow auto top off),
you need to make sure that you do not (completely) overlook the effect of the top-off.
And it can happen pretty quickly while multi-tabling. a few trips thru the blinds and a raise and a fold to a 3B, or Cbetting the flop and folding to a raise, and you could find yourself in for 3 buy-ins (or more) instead of 2.
James' suggestion to reduce the number of tables you're playing is especially important here.
Nicely said!
So would your advice be to take 1 shot on 1 table. Or is it reasonable to play 2 tables buy in full with no top up?
@@samuelmckinnon6976 I'd probably start on 1 table. I prefer playing 100BB or more, and you could easily find yourself 2 tabling w/ 80bb or less on both tables.
unless you have a solid knowledge of strategy w/ < 100BB, you could end up making mistakes (like calling when you don't have implied odds).
I suppose if the tables you are playing on are already mostly shorter stacks then having 2 "no top off" tables would be OK, as the effective stack would be
@@ekw555 Yeah thanks mate. I think that's a good call. Always making way more notes on players and understanding different game styles when I'm 1 tabling as well.
Interesting video. I've set some goals to meet before I move from NL2 to NL5, but based on your video I'm actually ready to take some shots. I love the idea of taking a few shots and moving down rather quickly.
Cheers Bart, and best of luck with your shots!
@@ThePokerBank Thanks once more for this video James. An aggressive strategy for climbing up (and down) the stakes makes the whole journey a lot shorter. And last night I earned my first shot on 50NL. Also currently working in your math & preflop workbook, good stuff!
@@barthilhorst7551 You're very welcome and nice job on the shot! Onward to many more =)
Great strategy! Simplest to understand I have seen. Thank you
You're very welcome Christopher!
I’m sticking to this strategy along with your BRM video and it’s been working like a charm. Only problem is, I’ve built up Bankroll to be able to take the 2 buy-in shot at the next limit and have lost 4-5 times lol (lost track of exactly how many times). Not sure what to do! Thinking I need to tighten up a bit.
Anyways, thanks for these videos! Would be lost without them.
Cheers! As for the actual move up, try to stick to the exact same strategy you normally use and avoid making huge strategic modifications until you have info on the new players/pool. It can take a few times for the shot to take, just keep grinding =)
100 buy ins to move up! Damn!!
I agree with you.
As a 1/2 rec, I need > my current $3k to take a shot at $2/5 w $500-1k buyin. I'll have to try at some point to move up from $300 max 1/2 tho. Only play a few times per month tho.
If, as some say, standard buyin is 100bb, then: $7.5k and $1-2k shot take is more reasonable for $1k max 2/5 tables. Esp on high hand days where 30 min High Hand jackpot doubles at 2/5 vs 1/2. NOT that I'm chasing or relying on hitting HH, but find these days bring out a more beatable opponent pool than usual.
Hi,
If your playing a live cash game 9 handed would you show some of your lower rang hands .
Thanks.
hey! What would be the case with MTT-s? Since the variance in those is quite higher compared to cash gams or sng-s
I am down with online poker but you have so much content and if I can be patient and not chase I can do good I get anxious but when I follow what iv learned is the only time I win thank you … if you have work books or any other content I’d love it or even if you have a virtual hands on training please let me know …
You're very welcome Stephano! Have you done my preflop and/or postflop workbooks yet? www.splitsuit.com/shop/preflop-postflop-workbook-bundle
Love these vlogs!!
Cheers!
Like the 15/2 idea... been trying to build a bankroll for 3 months now. For some reason, been cashing out when i win. Step back when i lose. Think i needed some outside influence to build the roll
Hopefully this video was the motivation you needed!
Good morning! very insightful 👍
Cheers Terence!
Thanks split. Great content as always. How do you calculate the right time to move up if your a tourney player?
Tourneys need a much higher # of buy-ins in ur BR than the 15 before taking a shot due to the much higher variance. The # is up to u based on ur individual makeup and situation. 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, etc. Pick one.
Cheers Scott! I think Jay Zee's comment is fair and my answer would likely be something around 25BI for a single-MTT shot and closer to 35BI for a shot taking multiple MTTs (like a series). Keep in mind that these are based upon my own comfort levels though.
So WHATS ARE THE CHANCES, that I was wondering about this for 2 days and u come up with this answering all my questions, lmao, thanks!
100% 😁
Great video! Thanks!
You're very welcome Santiago!
When evaluating taking a shot at the next level how many hours live would you want to ensure you are beating the current level?
I think 1k hours is a reasonable sample size based on 20 hands/hr, which would mean 20k hands played
It would take you such an extreme number of hours to "ensure" your winrate playing live. Based your preparedness less on results/WR and more on things like "how often are you utterly confused during a session" and "how often does your post-session HH analysis match up with the real-time lines you' took"?
In my opinion it isn't hours at all, it is the bankroll size. If you're winning, you know because your bankroll keeps going up. Time involved for purposes of bankroll to game size is irrelevant. In a winning situation, you won't have 15 buy-ins anymore you'll have 40. Your bankroll is the guide to the game size, it is the measure of if you are winning or not, if you can move up or need to move down. It is the bankroll.
Where do you play poker ? I live in Georgia so not legal. Thx
Georgia the state, or country?
@@ThePokerBank The state
@@hankfowler8194 I think you have Global Poker available to you. Not much else is legally available in the USA if you don't live in one of the few states where it's regulated.
Thank you for this video, I have a bankroll of 100$ and was planning on playing nl2 until I get to 250$ which seems too much, as I play for the moment 2 tables, and willing to attack to 3 tables next week. I've been playing for 2 weeks which is not that much, so of course too early to play nl5, but I've been doing not that bad, better than expected, and the best thing is that I'm able to see where are my mistakes. This video made me realize that I'd be stuck for too long playing nl2, so as long I get to 130$ and after 1 month (2weeks left), I'll get to nl5
You have a $100 bankroll? That gets you a minimum buy in at a $1/$2 live game.
@@FantasyFootballGod23 I play only online, the nearest Casino is on another city, I play occasionally live
GLGL with your shot(s) Oranaro!
@@FantasyFootballGod23 hes talking .1/.2 penny games
Sounds like dunning kruger effect
love your videos .learned so much.Can you explain why you dislike limping and rather open with a raise .Are you not putting more money in the pot pre with an inferior hand most of the time .thanks
Cheers Steven! Would you mind asking this on the Discord? Pop it over in the "Strategy Talk" channel: redchippoker.com/discord
The difference for me between 2nl and 5nl was basically negligible. Even 10nl wasn't that bad but i've taken shots at 25nl and it is soooooo much harder and i haven't played that much live poker but 25nl feels harder than 1/2 live
2nl is harder than live 1/2 lol
@@StreetSoulLover I've read this a lot on the internet but i guess haven't played enough live to experience it for myself
@@StreetSoulLover so what all these old mf's that live at the 1/2 tables have just been pissing away money year after year?
yournamechris 1/2 live is the bottom limit live. 25nl is not the bottom limit online, so that's why 25nl online is harder than 1/2 live.
25NL "toughness" can vary massively from site to site fwiw 🦘
So at what point is online poker not a rake trap?
are micro rakes higher, or is this just because it's a flat % ?
It's higher as a % of overall stack sizes, yes.
@@ThePokerBank amazing; shot taking and winning at my next stake. tysm !
@@gavinbrinck Awesome to hear! Keep up the good work!
I’ve been playing more 2/5 at my local casinos which only have a max buy in of $200-$300. I’ve found that those games are softer than even the .50/1 or 1/2 games I play on poker2. The problem is I’m not used to sitting with such deep stacks when I do build it up, and decide to leave when I do. The other day i stuck around with a big stack I made a bad fold cause of the stakes that I would’ve played differently had I been shallower. Any way to overcome this?
Rack up..partial cash out, and sit back down?
This is why live poker is so intimidating for me. I have way more fun but im honestly not bankrolled enough and it definitely makes me play worse overall i think
@@shadowwarsshadypeople6299 trash
Guillermo Alvarez Getting more experience playing as a deep stack is the only way you'll overcome it.
The only way to work around this is to keep studying deeper strategy and continue playing in sessions where effective stacks get deeper. There are the mental AND strategic components to this problem 😁
Time for $10/20 - thx. Wouldn´t take the shot without this vlog.
GLGL with your shot Martin - let us know how it goes on the Discord!
Gl gl 📈
2nl playing it for a year, can win a 10/25nl, but don't have the cash and tilt has made me go but many times, keep going back to 2nl but it is so boring, building from 2nl seems like such a waste of time, sometimes I can but AA 2 times in a row vs QTs, QTo, KK, 55.... even 89 jammed on busting my aces, AKs
Keep shot taking aggressively imo!
Wow, that aggressiv… in Germany you get tought a 40 buyin strategy.
I‘m struggling even winning at NL50 since several months with a 50 buyin bankroll… shall I move up anyway to NL100 with respectively 25 buyins?
Sounds like online poker.... play live and you won't downswing more then 10.
@@everythingallin4905 okay, interesting, but the question in the video refered to NL2 with 20$ Bankroll. So also appliable to online
@@toniweigl9783 Its a flexible strategy. U can move back down if necessary. So move up to NL100 with ur 25 buy ins. If u go down to, say, 20 buy ins, move back down to NL50 with ur 40 buy ins and build back up to 50 buy ins, then move back up to NL100 with 25 buy ins. Eventually, you'll start building up at NL100 and you'll be able to stay there and build up to 50 buy ins there, then try NL200 with 25 buy ins, etc.
Think of it less as "moving up and 100NL is my new homebase" and more of "taking some shots at 100NL to attempt to move up quicker". Given what you've laid out, if you think you are struggling to win at 50NL, I would increase my study:play ratio until I feel more confident, and then begin taking shots aggressively.
Always interesting..thx
You're very welcome!
Would you say this is essentially similar to the advice of having a bankroll of 5,000 to 10,000 big blinds within whatever stakes you're wanting to play?
5000 BBs is 50 Buy-Ins, so... no.
Andrew Gay A standard buy-in is 100 bb's. 5000 to 10000 bb's is 50 to 100 buy-ins, so no, it's not even close to being similar.
Like the other commentors said, no given that's 50-100BI. If you are a full-time pro with no other sources of income, that's likely fine. However, for 99.8% of players, 50-100BI is far too conservative imo.
"It depends". How willing are you to keep feeding fresh money into poker? The high buy-ins to stake as PokerBank said is for pros i.e., people who get their money from poker, so can't put any fresh money into it. So, if you have $1,000 you're willing to risk playing poker and you don't want to put another cent into it, play NL10 as your biggest game. If you lose, you may have to go down to NL5 NL2 etc.
On the flip side, if you have $1,000 a day you can put into poker, then go play some NL200 or NL500 or even NL1000. Just keep feeding it with the new money if you lose each day.
You won't move up as fast with 50-100 buy-ins but you probably won't have to put another cent into poker, ever again.
The same strategy applies for live poker, let´s say 1/3 move up to 2/4?
Yup (I'm assuming you mean $2/$5? I don't really ever see $2/$4 live NLHE games...)
@@ThePokerBank in n Germany we have weird stuff going on 2.50/2.50 and 2/4 we have here. :)
@@dirkroos1146 that IS a little weird, lol
@@ThePokerBank I agree but it is the same stakes at the end. Poker is not that popular like in the states, unfortunately.
@@dirkroos1146 Fair. And yup, it's all about big blinds at the end of the day =)
It’s time for another Splitsuit Vlog from Orange City👍
My next one is ~2 weeks away!
I took a shot at 5/10 online and found it the easiest. Dunno if that’s the sweet spot for rich fish or not?
Kind James. Please please help me.
With?
@@ThePokerBank I would love to work for you. Anything...
@@gernotg8480 I much appreciate the offer, I just don't have the space & time at the moment 😥
@@ThePokerBank Please give me a chance. I really need a job and a chance
Send me an email in a few months when hopefully my schedule will free up slightly!
15 buy ins for cash games is waay top little bad advice imo
15BI for the *next* level = 30+ for the current level (and 25+ if the shot goes poorly and you rebuild at the current limit). For non-pros, this is totally fine.