So, the phony gold-clad with tungsten inner-core bullion doesn't even HAVE a "ping" sound to it. Very interesting. This is very good to know. Thank you, sir. Once again. 👍🏻
Always best to use multiple testing methods. Some of the old maples had very little to no ping. Here's a video with more info on those if interested th-cam.com/video/RBWAHBRiGhw/w-d-xo.html
The speed of sound in tungsten is very fast. This causes the ping to occur in the ultrasonic range. Because this ping is ultrasonic, you cannot hear it. It also dissipates quickly. There is no easy way (it might even be physically impossible) to create a tungsten alloy that is mostly tungsten but has acoustic properties of gold. The speed of sound is mostly dependent on materials, so if it is mostly tungsten then it will sound like tungsten. And if you start alloying in low-density materials then it won't trick the basic weight and size tests. When tapping a tungsten coin, there is a sound you can hear, but it sounds like a dead thud.
Regarding 3:48 Canadian Maple Leaf coins since 2014 have on their reverse side an anti-counterfeiting security mark which appears as a small maple leaf produced by laser micro-engraving. Coin dealers can use the specialized reader known as Bullion DNA technology to decipher the tiny encryption code which can instantly verify if the coin is authentic according to the data base from the Royal Canadian Mint.
Thanks for making this video. Had this issue with a mid 80's .999 1/4 oz Gold Maple. From what I understand, they tend to have internal micro cracks that reduce it's ability to ping. Did buy the Gold from a reputable dealer and it passed all the other tests, but the ping was very weak compared to other .999 Gold in the stack. VT247
Hey, my pleasure. Your story is exactly why this was made. You're not alone! There have been a couple people that have mentioned something similar with their older Maples. Good to read yours was also a .999 Thanks for sharing!
Same here, my 1983 maples just sounds like a thud almost no ring. I have yet to do any other test but planning to very soon. I will say I unfortunately dropped one while trying to ping it and it landed on its side. A very small dent formed 😭 but it did tell me one thing, it is extremely soft metal.
Thank you for your video. As another quick non-destructive testing method, there is also X-ray Fluorescence which will instantaneously analyze the elemental composition of the metals in a sample. Table top models are, for examples, the Olympus Goldxpert and the Thermo Scientific Niton. There is also handheld version of X-ray Fluorescence analyzers that resemble a Ray Gun. Although X-ray Fluorescence testers are expensive, they provide comprehensive analysis.
Hey, thanks Jade! Just FYI, I was messaging with a seller that claimed to have Tungsten counterfeit coins with a 200micron thick Gold plating made from the actual alloys of the real coins. He said the plating was thick enough to trick an x-ray! He was asking $900 for each of the Tungsten fakes so I didn’t get one to verify, but seems like that could be possible.
Regarding 4:06 a neodymium magnet can be used to distinguish gold from tungsten. Gold is diamagnetic such that it is a neodymium magnet is slightly repelled. On the other hand, tungsten is paramagnetic such that a neodymium magnet is slightly attracted. The TH-cam demonstration is @ th-cam.com/video/SgPOPozHRow/w-d-xo.html
I do hope that, one day, sigma testers will come down in price so the average person can afford one. Interesting video! No gold maples as of yet and if and when I do get some I'll be buying from a very reputable dealer. Thanks, as always, for this information! Take care, be safe and God bless!
Hi Jim, Always a good idea to buy from a reputable source! I still recommend testing if you’re not 100% sure and familiar with what you’re buying just incase a mistake was made. The newer Gold Maples have some of the best eye appeal in my opinion. The radial lines are almost hypnotizing. Thanks so much and same to you!
If you're buying a substantial amount of gold or silverfrom different sources... They're not that much of an investment at all, and they keep the fraudsters at bay
The Maple Leaf laser etched feature is NOT practical for 99% of the collectors, purchasers and consumers of these gold coins. The Royal Canadian Mint will only provide the unique coin scanner and internet data base verification to major bullion dealers. Even a major Canadian bank who buys/sells these Maple Leaf gold coins to their own customers - - cannot provide on site verification of their products with this system because they do not have one. Great idea but very limited access for the public.
I wouldn’t buy 10 gold coins without knowing if each and everyone one of them were tested. It would have to be done right in front of me, just like every coin shop or pawn shop does for each and every coin. Especially GOLD! They never take some ones word that there real and should just buy it cause they said so. They wouldn’t be in business very long with those kinds of practices.
Yeah, that makes sense to me also! The person they bought them from was a regular that was selling her Father's old Coins. Still, always best to test. They bought new testing equipment after that.
Did the shop test the maple on the Original Sigma or the Sigma Pro because a Tungsten coin will pass on the Original that’s why they made the Pro version.
Hi Garry, I’m not sure. The shop I called about the no ping Maple just said it was tested on a sigma. The Tungsten coin in the video fails on the original Sigma at the coin shop that bought it. I’ve read about thick Gold plated Tungsten coins that pass the XRF.
Since the Canadian Mint controls the system that verifies Maple Leaves to be authentic or not, it would be entirely possible for them to produce fake Maple Leaves and register them into their system... and when it doesn't ring, you check it and it says "authentic"... but then you're placing your trust in the Canadian Mint. Yes, they're considered trustworthy, but since there's apparently Maple Leaves that don't ring, that presents quite the counterparty risk.
I’ve read that they were exchanging the no ping Maples out for Maples that did no questions asked! I hope that’s true. If I ever find out will def make a video on it
I’m curious whether the tungsten gold maple had a accurate diameter and thickness to it. That is a test I frequently do how accurate is it for spotting fakes? Obviously I do magnet, weight and ping test as well
Little bit of a ring test going on. When the magnet hits the gold compared to the tungsten you can hear a clear difference in the resonance. I’ve always said the ring test is underrated.
If the fake coin has 1oz weight.... will its dimensions ie diameter x thickness be the same as the pure gold maple ? No right? Cos its density wont be the same as pure gold ( density being mass / volume )
Yeah, Tungsten is slightly attracted to a magnet where Gold pushes it away. You can feel the difference in your hand for sure. It would take some basic training but once you know you know
@@SoundMoneyMetals but I thought tungsten did not weigh the exact same as gold..therefore the coin dimensions would have to be different when comparing a real gold coin vs fake tungsten coin ?
Hey Clinton, I’ve seen fakes that have the wrong thickness read as real Silver on the original sigmas. I’ve also seen a counterfeit Gold Eagle in a slab that read as real gold. The instructions that come with the sigma explain the different metals that can “pass.” The newer models measure thickness also, which to the best of my knowledge, catches all the fake metals. The problem is reading through plastic when the thickness can’t be measured. They’re a good tool to have and just like everything it’s best to use multiple testing methods
Hey Xephael, I won’t have access to a sigma pro. I’ll post a pic of it on a regular sigma now. I think you’ll have to be a subscriber to see it? If you’re not a following the channel please message on IG or FB and I’ll send the pics
Tungsten has a very close density to gold, this means that the size and weight will be the same - I only buy silver because a silver plated lead coin would be close but not close enough. As gold is gold, no forger is going to bother coining something new with any features that make it hard to copy. THE BEST WAY, is to check the conductance - Gold is very good and tungsten is very bad. Put one coin in your cheek, and put a silver or gold coin on your other cheek. After a few moments the precious metal will feel warm, and tungsten will remain cold as their still will be a temp gradient. Then, to get your refund, show the same experiment on a hot plate using a thermometer.
@@SoundMoneyMetals I agree, but if you are requesting a refund on eBay or something - you need something in the way of evidence, without a sigma machine non intrusive testing is hard. Showing a slow conductance can be done quite scientifically.
The maple is delicate... LOL... come on dude! 24k is not chocolate and it doesn't melt with a warm touch. I used to date a Chinese girl and her dad had plenty of gold (24k). He used to wear a heavy gold box link every day without issue. The fake looks fake .....
![“อาร์ต พศุตม์” เกือบเอี่ยวทุกคดีดัง เอ๊ะไว้ก่อน ไม่มีอะไรได้มาง่ายๆ | แฉ 16 ต.ค. 67 [2/3] | GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0Gx-0-kUBv8/mqdefault.jpg)
So, the phony gold-clad with tungsten inner-core bullion doesn't even HAVE a "ping" sound to it. Very interesting. This is very good to know. Thank you, sir. Once again. 👍🏻
Always best to use multiple testing methods. Some of the old maples had very little to no ping. Here's a video with more info on those if interested th-cam.com/video/RBWAHBRiGhw/w-d-xo.html
The speed of sound in tungsten is very fast. This causes the ping to occur in the ultrasonic range. Because this ping is ultrasonic, you cannot hear it. It also dissipates quickly. There is no easy way (it might even be physically impossible) to create a tungsten alloy that is mostly tungsten but has acoustic properties of gold. The speed of sound is mostly dependent on materials, so if it is mostly tungsten then it will sound like tungsten. And if you start alloying in low-density materials then it won't trick the basic weight and size tests. When tapping a tungsten coin, there is a sound you can hear, but it sounds like a dead thud.
Regarding 3:48 Canadian Maple Leaf coins since 2014 have on their reverse side an anti-counterfeiting security mark which appears as a small maple leaf produced by laser micro-engraving. Coin dealers can use the specialized reader known as Bullion DNA technology to decipher the tiny encryption code which can instantly verify if the coin is authentic according to the data base from the Royal Canadian Mint.
Nice, I prefer the security features everyone can just see and do themselves. The extra layer of the unseen and unknown are nice also
Thanks for making this video. Had this issue with a mid 80's .999 1/4 oz Gold Maple. From what I understand, they tend to have internal micro cracks that reduce it's ability to ping. Did buy the Gold from a reputable dealer and it passed all the other tests, but the ping was very weak compared to other .999 Gold in the stack.
VT247
Hey, my pleasure. Your story is exactly why this was made. You're not alone! There have been a couple people that have mentioned something similar with their older Maples. Good to read yours was also a .999 Thanks for sharing!
Same here, my 1983 maples just sounds like a thud almost no ring. I have yet to do any other test but planning to very soon. I will say I unfortunately dropped one while trying to ping it and it landed on its side. A very small dent formed 😭 but it did tell me one thing, it is extremely soft metal.
Thank you for your video. As another quick non-destructive testing method, there is also X-ray Fluorescence which will instantaneously analyze the elemental composition of the metals in a sample. Table top models are, for examples, the Olympus Goldxpert and the Thermo Scientific Niton. There is also handheld version of X-ray Fluorescence analyzers that resemble a Ray Gun. Although X-ray Fluorescence testers are expensive, they provide comprehensive analysis.
Hey, thanks Jade! Just FYI, I was messaging with a seller that claimed to have Tungsten counterfeit coins with a 200micron thick Gold plating made from the actual alloys of the real coins. He said the plating was thick enough to trick an x-ray! He was asking $900 for each of the Tungsten fakes so I didn’t get one to verify, but seems like that could be possible.
@@SoundMoneyMetals Thank you for update. I agree that $900 is indeed too much money to pay for a gold plated tungsten coin.
@@jadenephrite Yeah it definitely is! He had it priced like he wanted a share of the scam.
Sorry to burst your bubble of confidence, but the tungsten core fakes will pass an X-ray test as the plating is thick
@@SoundMoneyMetalsthere's another channel that verified this in an X-ray and it came up 99.99
Was a thermo scientific machine
Regarding 4:06 a neodymium magnet can be used to distinguish gold from tungsten. Gold is diamagnetic such that it is a neodymium magnet is slightly repelled. On the other hand, tungsten is paramagnetic such that a neodymium magnet is slightly attracted. The TH-cam demonstration is @ th-cam.com/video/SgPOPozHRow/w-d-xo.html
I do hope that, one day, sigma testers will come down in price so the average person can afford one. Interesting video! No gold maples as of yet and if and when I do get some I'll be buying from a very reputable dealer. Thanks, as always, for this information! Take care, be safe and God bless!
Hi Jim, Always a good idea to buy from a reputable source! I still recommend testing if you’re not 100% sure and familiar with what you’re buying just incase a mistake was made. The newer Gold Maples have some of the best eye appeal in my opinion. The radial lines are almost hypnotizing. Thanks so much and same to you!
If you're buying a substantial amount of gold or silverfrom different sources... They're not that much of an investment at all, and they keep the fraudsters at bay
And his Pinger is a much cheaper option if you don't buy a substantial amount.. or want something cheap to carry around when you go into a store
@@xephael3485 Super cool, thanks for the shout out!
The Maple Leaf laser etched feature is NOT practical for 99% of the collectors, purchasers and consumers of these gold coins.
The Royal Canadian Mint will only provide the unique coin scanner and internet data base verification to major bullion dealers.
Even a major Canadian bank who buys/sells these Maple Leaf gold coins to their own customers - - cannot provide on site verification of their products with this system because they do not have one. Great idea but very limited access for the public.
Yeah, agree, I'm sure they have their reasoning. For everyone else I recommend checking the weight, dimensions, magnet test, and a quick ping.
I wouldn’t buy 10 gold coins without knowing if each and everyone one of them were tested. It would have to be done right in front of me, just like every coin shop or pawn shop does for each and every coin. Especially GOLD! They never take some ones word that there real and should just buy it cause they said so. They wouldn’t be in business very long with those kinds of practices.
Yeah, that makes sense to me also! The person they bought them from was a regular that was selling her Father's old Coins. Still, always best to test. They bought new testing equipment after that.
Did the shop test the maple on the Original Sigma or the Sigma Pro because a Tungsten coin will pass on the Original that’s why they made the Pro version.
Hi Garry, I’m not sure. The shop I called about the no ping Maple just said it was tested on a sigma. The Tungsten coin in the video fails on the original Sigma at the coin shop that bought it. I’ve read about thick Gold plated Tungsten coins that pass the XRF.
Since the Canadian Mint controls the system that verifies Maple Leaves to be authentic or not, it would be entirely possible for them to produce fake Maple Leaves and register them into their system... and when it doesn't ring, you check it and it says "authentic"... but then you're placing your trust in the Canadian Mint.
Yes, they're considered trustworthy, but since there's apparently Maple Leaves that don't ring, that presents quite the counterparty risk.
I’ve read that they were exchanging the no ping Maples out for Maples that did no questions asked! I hope that’s true. If I ever find out will def make a video on it
Very good and simple to understand.
Awesome! Thank you! Appreciate the comment and you taking the time to watch it!
Hello, what is the name of the black pliers you have in your hand, where can you buy it? Thank you 🙏🏻
Google "Pocket Pinger"
I’m curious whether the tungsten gold maple had a accurate diameter and thickness to it. That is a test I frequently do how accurate is it for spotting fakes? Obviously I do magnet, weight and ping test as well
I wish I saw this video before I made an ass out of myself accusing my boy of trying to rub game on me lol 😂
Oh no! Do tell, what happened?
@@SoundMoneyMetals I had tested a age went to test a maple and the ring was nowhere near as resonant as the age
@@Odessycoins yeah, that’s a thing! Generally the more pure a metal the shorter the duration of the ping. You can even hear it from a .9999 to a .999
Little bit of a ring test going on. When the magnet hits the gold compared to the tungsten you can hear a clear difference in the resonance. I’ve always said the ring test is underrated.
Do you have a silver maple ping test video? 2022 preferably
Not a 2022, but here’s a video with a Canadian Maple and other sovereign coins th-cam.com/video/pWd1rIg6Ouk/w-d-xo.html
Do you have a Sigma metal verifier? Did the tungsten filled coin pass a Sigma Pro verification?
If the fake coin has 1oz weight.... will its dimensions ie diameter x thickness be the same as the pure gold maple ?
No right? Cos its density wont be the same as pure gold ( density being mass / volume )
It's good that there's opportunity for growth, so bleak the coin, it's not to worry for solutions in peace, somehow that work very good.
Hey Gold, agree!
That's the most informative video about fake ones. Great job. This ping test has 3D printed?
Confused about the magnet test. I've seen other videos where the tungsten is the more magnetic material, not the gold. What gives?
Yeah, Tungsten is slightly attracted to a magnet where Gold pushes it away. You can feel the difference in your hand for sure. It would take some basic training but once you know you know
Thank you!!
I saw a video where a guy couldn’t get a ping and when he cut the coin in half he found a void in the Blanchard
are the fake tungsten coins the exact same weight, thickness and width as the real gold coins ?
Hey, they can be. The high level counterfeits are right on. This one is slightly thicker than the real Maple I have.
@@SoundMoneyMetals but I thought tungsten did not weigh the exact same as gold..therefore the coin dimensions would have to be different when comparing a real gold coin vs fake tungsten coin ?
Will this work on gold bars as well?
I've only pinged a small Gold bar. It definitely did ping! Should have more info on your question in the future.
I heard there are fakes passing the sigma test too? 🤔🤔🤔 any thoughts?
Hey Clinton, I’ve seen fakes that have the wrong thickness read as real Silver on the original sigmas. I’ve also seen a counterfeit Gold Eagle in a slab that read as real gold. The instructions that come with the sigma explain the different metals that can “pass.” The newer models measure thickness also, which to the best of my knowledge, catches all the fake metals. The problem is reading through plastic when the thickness can’t be measured. They’re a good tool to have and just like everything it’s best to use multiple testing methods
Could you show the tungsten on the sigma Pro?
Hey Xephael, I won’t have access to a sigma pro. I’ll post a pic of it on a regular sigma now. I think you’ll have to be a subscriber to see it? If you’re not a following the channel please message on IG or FB and I’ll send the pics
Tungsten has a very close density to gold, this means that the size and weight will be the same - I only buy silver because a silver plated lead coin would be close but not close enough. As gold is gold, no forger is going to bother coining something new with any features that make it hard to copy. THE BEST WAY, is to check the conductance - Gold is very good and tungsten is very bad. Put one coin in your cheek, and put a silver or gold coin on your other cheek. After a few moments the precious metal will feel warm, and tungsten will remain cold as their still will be a temp gradient. Then, to get your refund, show the same experiment on a hot plate using a thermometer.
Hey So So, I have never heard of the cheek test. That’s great. I would still recommend people start with a gentle ping test
@@SoundMoneyMetals I agree, but if you are requesting a refund on eBay or something - you need something in the way of evidence, without a sigma machine non intrusive testing is hard. Showing a slow conductance can be done quite scientifically.
@@SoSo-li6dn that sounds interesting! I’ll look into it
Platinum is great for this. Nothing is to platinum as tungsten is for gold
how to sell old US coins from 1972 and 1980 I have old US coins
try eBay! Really popular and trusted site
I don't know how to sell old American coins
❤
Magnetic scale will show if it's tungsten...
Sir Meron akong coin na ELIZABETH.II.D.G REG F.D.2010 BUMIBILI BA KAYO
شكرا❤❤❤
You smacked the s out of that
Will a sigma catch a tungsten filled coin? I assume you could create a tungsten copper alloy with the same density as silver or gold.
The rim, color and reflectivity if the fake give it away, at least from what i see on the video
nice but i prefer sigma for gold :)
Check diameter and width with calipers
Don’t Understand, Just put On Gold Tester machine
The maple is delicate... LOL... come on dude! 24k is not chocolate and it doesn't melt with a warm touch. I used to date a Chinese girl and her dad had plenty of gold (24k). He used to wear a heavy gold box link every day without issue.
The fake looks fake .....
A rare earth magnet will suck that fake tungsten up right away then u know its fake.
Can you link a video of this demo please.
@@chetmyers7041 TH-cam got a lot of those video, search for it.
I bet it will show alot different on my metal detector., between the two.
In Bitcoin world we have this saying. “Don’t trust verify”
I wouldn’t trust your store or any institution telling coin is real if it doesn’t ring.
That isnt a saying in the bit coin world genius. 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@OspreyEye Listen to this genius 🤣
@@21Cabins😂
😮😮😮😮😮
😅😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
#thud
I am selling my coin collection
Intrested msg
Totally confusingv
Hey, why do you say that? What's confusing?