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Go-Around Missed Approach into Monterey // Weather is moving in quickly
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ย. 2023
- Flying the Citation into Monterey California, shooting the ILS landing east from over the ocean. There were storms all around and closing in over the airport. We had a clear path between the weather, but it was closing in on the runway creating gusty winds in all directions from over the mountains. We gave it a shot, chose to go missed and the airliner behind us did the same thing. We wound up diverting to Fresno, which was my original plan, but we needed a minute to assess things in the air and work on that plan. I love flights with lots of work. They are really fun.
Sending this to my son who is in Instrument Training now. Great teamwork and decision making. Agree with comments about a 2 pilot crew in jets.
Thanks for saying so. Tell him good luck and congrats! Instrument training is busy but extremely valuable.
I've done that approach a few times, SPIFR in an EMS helicopter. I had an advantage in that I could slow down enough to compensate for a crosswind, but OMG, your video made it very apparent what a challenge a strong crosswind (and wet runway) are in a fixed wing! Great CRM, and great decision making. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! Makes for a fun flight… but single pilot IFR in helicopter, you’re definitely juggling! What type? Eurocopter?
Great decision to go around. It takes Big balls to go MISSED.... and little ones to try and land !!! READ THAT AGAIN !!!
Thanks👍 No argument here
Opposite because why would a pussy want to risk his life😂
Wow. It's one thing to see crosswind/ go around from the jumpseat, but to actually see it from this point of view really puts into perspective just how difficult this situation is and how quickly things happen in a matter of seconds. Great flying!
Thanks 👍. It’s definitely a high workload environment at that time. Planning, prep and practice helps for sure though.
Great video showing how busy a real world missed approach is!
Thanks! That’s when it gets fun too.
Totally awesome!!!
Great to hear!
I know it's procedure, but considering the nasty conditions, cracks me up you were asked twice the reason for your go around! LOL! Glad you guys stayed safe!
I know right!! Even go-around for just any reason. I know they are collecting trend data, but still Kinda sends the wrong vibe.
Great flying and decision making!
Thank you 👍
Nice decision captain ! Brings back so much memories as I did my year abroad in Monterey, such a fantastic place.
Thanks 👍 Fun and exciting year, I’d imagine.
Last few miles looked brutal! Great CRM!
Thanks! Winds and wx were definitely moving around.
@@caspilotlounge thanks for the reply. Happy Thanksgiving and safe flying through the holidays!
Having four white lights on the PAPI, plus wrestling that chop,. Good call.
Yeah those four white lights…. Stirring up trouble
Thank you for giving the audience an idea of pilots' workload while flying in inclement weather conditions.
Absolutely 👍
Really hits home for me as I near my IR ride. Great ADM and thanks for being a good example for the rest of us!
Good luck on your ride!! Have fun with it. Planning, Profiles, and Procedures.
Thanks for sharing! Textbook example of going missed.
Great to hear. Thanks👍
absolutely amazing to see that missed approach in IMC
Thank you! Awesome to hear that… absolutely!
Good call.
Thanks! One of those things you feel early on… evidenced by letting the descent lag and going high. FLy SaFE
Weather was making you work for it big time. I’m almost done with my CFI certificate love watching your videos for some motivation looking forward to the next one
Thanks! Congrats on making this far, good luck on the CFI. An extremely important step!
Good choice!
One of those… knew it before we actually got there to do it, decisions. Thanks 👍
Excellent ADM. Love seeing these.
Awesome to hear! Thanks
What a boss man, good CRM trying to get out of the mess keep up the good work!!
Thank you, i appreciate that. Wilco!
You earned yourself a new subscriber.
Awesome! Thanks
Greatest professional decision By the Pilot
Thank you. Should be a lot more normal decision made whenever needed.
No go decision start from the beginning from weather Briefing and planning and what I saw today is perfection and well trained
Good example of a go-around, and I’ll probably get downvoted for saying this, but it really seems like the PF was having trouble managing the approach once he disconnected the AP. Winds at 10 gusting 19 is well within the capabilities of the jet, and the AP was doing fine keeping the LOC and GS centered. Skip to around 6:00 for AP disconnect (the high-pitch beep). They quickly got high and left of course without much done at all in the realm of corrections. They were below approach speed, and weren’t really tracking the FD as precisely as they could. Then, after the go-around, they said the reason was winds? Doesn’t add up, but still, well-executed go-around and a good, safe decision. Cheers and safe flying.
No downvote and no disagreement. Addressed it in a few other comments, but that’s basically i think why i decided to upload the video unedited raw. A number read by tower doesn’t always give the full picture. There were quite a bit of updrafts… at some points i was pushing harder than i like just to still diverge from glideslope. That time between assessing conditions, keeping altitude below me incase of downdrafts, and calculating the conditions… basically the decision process as it was happening. Sure a normal approach to mins, on loc and GS, at DH , no runway no light, call go around and we’re off. No biggie (or at least it shouldn’t be). But Visual conditions, just 19 knots of gusty wind (I’ve landed a 182 in 58 knots), the runway in site, but my experience already telling me “go-around” as kicked off the autopilot feeling the string up drafts and how the wind was moving us around. The mountain to the left, the storm pushing over the runway… all these factors that tell the full story. Or at least as i saw them at the time. Just my choppy thoughts trying to convey the choppy conditions. The airline right behind us went around as well and headed to San Jose. I truly appreciate your input and agree… autopilot off and started diverging immediately…. I’m hoping my point is the “why”.
Nice call. Very professional decision
Thank you. I appreciate that 👍
Great video!! Thank you!
Thanks 👍 wish I had gotten more but the gopro overheated.
Awesome capture! Would you be okay with me featuring this in my video? Of course you will be credited both in the video and in the description!
great video, and smart decision. People can learn from this.
Appreciate that. It’s always an option.
Very busy on that approach! Did what you could but made a wise decision to bail. Hope you got down eventually😅
:) Thank you. Yep, wound up heading to our alternate of Fresno. Gopro overheated and shutdown. Wished i had gotten more
I flew caravans for FedEx, and the roughest air ive had was doing that 10R ILS, I was able to plant it and roll out. I don't know your particular conpany Opspec and procedures but with freight passenger comfort isnt taken into consideration what may be comfortable for one person isn't for another, single pilot ifr definitely is busy.
Nice! Mountain Air? I tried to get on with Baron back in ‘04, to no avail. Lots of respect here for all your single pilot IFR, for sure! I had I guy in my airline class, back when i was at the airlines the first time, that was coming from a small 135 flying 421’s out of Idaho…. He definitely could fly circles around me!
As for the 10R approach, i could imagine. It’s not always just about the stated wind velocity… can be a lot more dynamic than that. This approach was from back earlier this year when they were getting all that nonstop rain, storms and flooding.
Good choice! No salvaging that approach.
Yep, agreed👍 no need to either.
Very good video! Good CRM guys!
Thank you. Appreciate you saying so!
@@caspilotlounge To often pilots after a long bout with weather get to within view of the runway and make every attempt to get down, what you guys demonstrated was good airmanship in making an informed decision in going missed, it sets a very good example for us all,.
@@seanfox7883 i truly appreciate you saying that. And YES, you are exactly right about the temptation.
An instruments student.
Great video, but I would like to ask if you can include ATC communications next time so I can learn more.
Thank you so much :)
Yep. Here’s one… Low Visibility Missed Approach GPS 1 Snowy Mountain Flight
th-cam.com/video/Xvj3FNR6Cq0/w-d-xo.html
On this Monterey flight, we were ferrying and dealing with a mx issue in another jet and i didn’t have all my stuff with me…. Fly first! Most of my other videos have the atc audio
good call, no reason to risk it if you don't really have to.
Exactly 👍 thanks!
Why does it look like every screen on the dash was constantly flickering?
It’s the shutter speed of the camera. I can either set it to match the screens so they aren’t flickering but the outside world is washed out or i can set the shutter speed as it is in this case. Multiple cameras would be the solution… (or new avionics ;) one day👍
Great ADM!
Much appreciated!
I like the video
Awesome 👍
Great vid! New subscriber.
Awesome to hear! Thanks👍
When in doubt go around as you did. The conditions look very doable, however I think your expectation was diverging further and further from what you were experiencing and therefore doubt was creeping in. Gusting up to 19 it sound like, which even as a direct crosswind I would think to be doable (but spicy!) in regards to an aircraft limitation. I probably would have gone around and tried again, and if ATC asked liked they did here I would have cited the approach became unstable.
My main critique would be to stay on the LOC and GS all the way down and make your decision at the proper point in time and space (DA) from where a safe decision either way can be made. Your go around became inevitable long before you called go around however as you were way high with full GS deflection for something like 30-40s. Landing long on a wet runway is not so good. Even if you're trending towards a go around decision minutes in advance, stay on the approach profile until a go around is decided. Fly the GS even in visual conditions, it is your friend.
I “almost” wholeheartedly agree with everything you say. I’ve addressed it in a few comments, but i think my point in posting this one is that i diverged off of glide slope and possibly my reasoning for doing so.
Ok so debrief time…. 19 knots is no issue, direct or not, that wind doesn’t bother me or even many i fly with. Honestly, i dislike “wind checks” later down final. They don’t mean a ton to me other than if they are indicative of rapidly changing conditions. I’m listening to the plane and getting my wind info from that. In this case, the big thing i was feeling was a very strong updraft (which also helped my divergence from GS, and probably isn’t conveyed through video) but was leading me forward with caution and not wanting to give up precious altitude in case i were to encounter the potential “other side” of this updraft… a microburst. The citation slows and descends quite easily, but you are absolutely correct, the further i drove down final diverging from glide path the more dangerous a landing attempt would become. So i did know before it was called that i wanted to go around, just doing the mental calculations verifying that decision in my head… while holding on to attitude below me.
As for the reasoning call to ATC and a second attempt… had i been on the radios, i would have called exactly what you stated. I was PF, so not working the radios, but he and I covered a few things during our debrief in Fresno. Knowing the full picture of what was going on, a second attempt would not have been a good choice. We had plenty of fuel, but would have significantly narrowed our margins with a second attempt, but greater than that the wx was moving both directly to the field and along the inbound approach course, conditions getting worse quickly. My gopro overheated so i wasn’t able to show it but the airliner right behind us on final went around as well and immediately diverted north to the San Jose area.
In many instances, i agree… stay on profile. Had we been IMC, i would have. But being visual and feeling the rapidly changing conditions, the strong updrafts, having the storm within reach, knowing a microbursts is possible… these things were all telling me to just go elsewhere… basically before i made the final decision. If that makes sense. Head to Fresno, grab fuel, food, and let the wx pass and come back in with absolutely no issues.
I truly appreciate your thoughts and comments. I enjoy learning, gaining perspective from others and having an open dialogue to foster both. (Also, I’m not trying to say I’m right and you’re wrong, i just wanted to provide my thoughts from my perspective)
Thanks again 👍
@@caspilotloungeI learned from your great writeup of the decision making here, especially the point about the updrafts putting you in microburst avoidance mode 👍🏻
looked like a lot of fun
🤣
Actually was, but i enjoy the work. Fly around, but never actually through the bad stuff… always the plan.
Good job and always be safe.
@@scootermason2746 plan on the go-around, be surprised by the landing
Well put, good idea, been watching you awhile now.
Can i honestly ask you. What is the best way to get started on the long road to becoming a pilot? What things should i be studying first? Ive been focusing on weather, communications and faa regulations to start with. The Goal so far has been familiarity and building Good Habits. Any suggestions apreciated Thanks!
Absolutely, you can! Those are definitely important points. Can I ask what your goal is for aviation? Private pilot, corporate, airline, whatever direction you’re currently leaning? All are perfectly good goals. Your path will tailor any answer, at least to some degree. A safe pilot with good decision making skills and a well rounded view of the full situational awareness, is always the goal (or should be) no matter where you want to end up. Train with being a “captain” in mind from the very start.
Just curious when this was shot? KMRY is my home airport so cool to see this. Funny reading everyone acting like they never make a less than perfect approach. Maybe you could've flown it better but no one here was in the cockpit with you and experiencing those conditions. I've landed on 10R hundreds of times (including shooting that approach) and the approach end often experiences updrafts and gusts 15-20kts on short final (pretty much where you decided to punch out), not sure what the exact weather that day was but would'nt be surprised if windshear or microbusrt conditions were present around the area. All that aside like to see the go around decision rather than try and plant it halfway down a wet runway, safety is paramount. Im doing what you did and grabbing food in Fresno instead. Good work.
I appreciate that. I sat on this one for a long time trying to figure out what to do with it (until finally deciding to just toss it out raw and see the reaction). It was from much earlier in the year when y’all were getting all that non stop rain. I actually had the encore broken out there and flying this one in to check on it, so no pax. Yeah definitely could have stayed on glide slope, but really don’t think that would have changed the go around decision. There was quite a bit of up draft and im not a fan of forcing things. There were times i was pushing fairly decent and still diverging from gs. One commenter mentioned y’all don’t really have microburst out there… i guess t-storms are built differently 🤷♂️. JK. Its all good. I really do like hearing what others have to say and I’ve learned a ton from doing that for nearly 25 years flying, or at least trying to.
You live in an awesome place! I spent a lot of time in the San Joaquin Valley back in the early 2000’s. Almost moved out there, but wound up covering the flying remotely. Thanks again. Enjoy an In-N-Out for me!
what were the winds? I might have done a less flap approach and kept half the gust in speed. didn't look too bad really
They were constantly at change do to the storm/s around and moving. And for us a flaps 15 landing with those winds and contaminated runways pushes the margins for our safety planning.
makes sense. didn't know what the winds were doing@@caspilotlounge
I love flights with lots of work. They are really fun 😂 Not always fun! Got a couple of flights in my airline career that were no fun at all. happy landings
Haha. I actually do, but it probably needs to be qualified… i like talk saturated flights where we are working and moving seamlessly, stress level heightened just enough to keep us alert and focused. 2 am fedex push with a squall line racing in; storms you have to work around; low complicated approaches; these sorts of things. But definitely not things that involve long lines, delays, and everyone trying to get into one airport. My first time at the airlines was kinda that way… stressing about schedules, junior manning, getting extended, having a reserve line built out and all my off days change; those stressors are completely different :) but i still enjoy having to work a little bit extra. FLy SaFE
great video, but why were you flying right for the red? Isn't that kinda the purpose of onboard WX radar? To avoid it? LOL! ;)
Haha. Yep. The onboard will also grab terrain. So that adds to the red sometimes. Paints a coast line pretty well though. Fun flying. But yes, use the products you have to make informed decisions and we actually had a decent route onto the approach and back to the runway, but deteriorating conditions of course.
Just curious had you been on the papi do you think you would have still gone around?
Good question…. I had gotten high off the glidepath, but honestly, with the environment in sight, some of that was hesitation to continue (think slowing the clock to assess conditions). So basically, looking back, i think i was already seeing where this approach was going and just needed a bit more data to make the final call. If that makes sense. So, no, i probably would not have been exactly on the papi either and would have gone missed as well. Great thought exploration👍
So, where did ya wind up? don’t leave hanging. 😮
Haha. Sorry. GoPro overheated. Yep, we got together and went with our alternate of Fresno. Some In-N-out, fuel, let wx pass, then headed back in uneventfully.
@@caspilotlounge Great video, shows some of the cold hard realities of aviation, marginal weather/fuel combo, handled by cool heads in the cockpit. Outstanding!
Seems like an optical illusion in IMC. You were perfect on the approach until you turned off the autopilot and decided to hand fly it. Don't know why you ignored the HSI after that too.
For sure. Was a little reluctant to continue giving up altitude when i was pretty sure where this approach was going. So basically not worried about the slope at that point, continue following the lateral and assess what i thought about the rapidly changing conditions as we progress
Petits joueurs ....
Nu fi o pulă
;)
That’s is why I’d rather have a two pilot crew than flying single pilot in any high performance jet
Completely agree. And we operate only that way.
Great point
So where did you land?
So we had SBP and PRB in our pocket as options IF they looked good, but the wx and non current reports were pointing us to our main alternate of Fresno. So that’s where we headed. Got some fuel, some In-N-out burger, let the storm pass, then headed back over. Wish I had gotten more, but the gopro overheated.
Shame… too high. Almost had it. A 172 could’ve just dropped.
That straight wing Cessna will descent and slow, to a point, as well, but not always the best play. FLy SaFE
6:30 thu 7:00 continually deviating from GS...
Exactly. Hesitant to continue giving up altitude. At least from my view. But yep, going high for sure.
@@caspilotloungemakes sense! altitude is potential energy (backup energy in case of loss of kinetic energy! Good one!
This a C560?
Basically, 550 to be exact though. Bravo. We have an encore as well though
[deleted by user; original comment below; sigh; TH-cam got me again]
4 WHITES at 6:20 and also clearly above the ILS cross hairs readout on the PFD, continually deviating from GS...and yet still absolutely no attempt to correct and lower the approach! Sorry this just looks like either extremely cautious/inexperienced piloting, or most probably a lame excuse for another yt video! Am amazed at all the replies praising this approach, they obviously have no idea!
You’re exactly right. I’d say good catch, but it’s pretty obvious really though, right. I didn’t edit the video any, and that was my point really. I addressed this in a few comments, but absolutely acknowledge and agree… i slowed the descent and that was a conscience choice due the conditions being encountered and wanting to reserve altitude in case of a worst case microburst scenario. The citation slows and descends extremely well, so for this particular plane that was an option if it ended up i was being too cautious. It’s kinda like flying a downwind in mountains, heads up against a rapidly rising slope… there’s a natural tendency to gradually increase altitude to match… whereas in that case you can combat that by entering the pattern on the base tracking parallel to the terrain. Whether from an abundance of caution or from a place of experience, listening to that little voice in the back of your head isn’t always a bad thing. Expect the go-around and be surprised by the landing.
Go missed and head to KSNS and get a Uber. Great decision to go missed. It didn’t feel right so it wasn’t going to happen.
Thank you. Appreciate that. Eventually we had to get in because we were picking up pax, not dropping. But no biggie, headed to Fresno, got fuel, In-N-Out, let the weather pass, then headed right back over with no issues.
All the way to FAT😱. What was the WX like at SNS. Used to be a restaurant there. I would fly up from San Luis Obispo for lunch. I also remember getting out of Monterey one time missing the in coming marine layer by doing a very early cross wind to down wind and heading inland. It can get exciting there. Safe flying.
@@flyerbob124 yeah SNS was covered up too. Weather all over the coastal area. Even FAT was marginal. It didn’t take very long to get over there. But yeah, fun stuff for sure. FLy SaFE
Honestly I don't understand this one. Tower called gusting 19, weird directions, which is sporty but not crazy. Autopilot had you perfectly on slope, as soon as you turned it off you started getting high and never corrected. Obviously it's a go around at that point, but it's definitely a perfectly doable approach and landing.
That’s fair. I definitely slowed the descent and got high… was hesitant to fully commit to the descent. It was more the constantly changing wind, read shear due to the approaching storm. You certainly make a fair point, but the airliner immediately behind us went around as well.
Looks like one of those cases of "you had to be there". A landing attempt would have been against your better judgment, so you went around. No one should have an issue with that. Safety first.
Everything is flashing PWM. Must be an piece of crap iPhone videoing this
Nope. Just gotta have a fast scan
Weak sauce
There’s always one… ha. ;) 👍
Why aren't you guys using haarp technology to create clear weather conduit ahead of you?
Would have to ask Cessna about that one. Ha
@@caspilotlounge Or, network some low power nodes along the glide path to the airport making missed approaches a thing of the past, only being turned on when bad weather is anticipated.