Cleveland, Ohio can give ship nerds a great opportunity to see these vessels up close as they wind up the Cuyahoga River from Lake Erie. It's amazing to see these behemoths skillfully navigate up the "Crooked River" to the steel mills and go all the back out in reverse. I've been seeing the Wolverine go up and down the river since I was a small child. Even today, whenever I have a meal in the downtown Flats all of us Clevelanders waive at the crews and take pictures.
My interest in lake boats started when I was stuck in the car at the Zilwaukee bridge as a child. Suddenly being stuck in a traffic jam on the way "up north" was interesting and exciting as that behemoth slid by.
So awesome of you not olny educating us on the history of ships but the history of Great Lakes shipping, learned so much just watching your videos, especially when it came into the history of the whaleback boats and barges , I actually bought a bunch of books on them Thanks for putting the time and r into everything you do
A very enjoyable video Wes. It's great to see them still plying the waters and rivers of the Great Lakes. I'd say they designed and built them well. True workhorses!
As always Wes, great video. As a younger (40yr old) wreck diver and Great Lakes Shipping history admirer, I am thankful to you and others for making and posting this history, so it won't be forgotten. Next time I am down in St. Joseph/ Benton Harbor, I'll try and get some updated pictures and send them to you, of (one whose name I currently can't remember), that is always dumping stones at a construction company's dock, St. Joe side of the river. Jim Scholz and I pass by it when we go diving. Hope you and your loved ones have a great weekend Sir.
Fascinating video. Wes, I'm writing from the Minneapolis area and am wondering what you would recommend as a must-see place/attraction regarding Great Lakes ships, shipwrecks, history, etc. I am thinking of doing a weekend, Great Lakes history road trip somewhere. Any museums, etc, you'd recommend (aside from the Duluth/Superior area, I've been there many times). Thanks, Jason.
Hey Wes....You mentioned that these designs moved the cabins aft. Have you done a video on forward bridge/cabin design philosophy vs the aft. Seems like the forward designs are only in the past.
Growing up in the early 60's my Grandpa had a cottage on the south channel of Harsens Island in Lake St. Clair until they dredged out the channel behind this little spit of land the lake boats would sail right in front of the house. When we were heading out into the lake to fish we would pass all these freighters I wish I had a camera back then. In case anyone wanted to know the fresh caught perch dinners just about every night were delicious.
Can someone explain, please, if there’s a practical reason for all accomodations to be aft? Or is this simply a design characteristic? Serious q. Thanks!
Why did they forsake the Pilot Cabin Forward & Engine Cabins Aft for the All Cabins Aft Arrangement? (This is rhetorical Question, because I know the logical answer).
@@authorwes, easier for the Chinese to Build? So they no longer build ships in their own ship yards on the lakes. Anyways, thanks for the info. Still, The Classic Design always looks better. Also, it’s interesting how some of the Self-Unloading booms for the modern lake freighters are literally longer than some very old Lake Freighters.
Normally I wouldn’t kibitz with the likes of an expert like you, but I have to completely disagree with your inclusion of the Roger M. Kyes with the “River Class”. I’ve done a lot of research on the Title IX ships recently and it’s easier to classify the Title IX ships into divisions built among different builders. For example, the “River Class” vessels can be divided into two classes; those built by American Shipbuilding and Bay Shipbuilding. The American Shipbuilding River Class comprised of the William R. Roesch, the Paul Thayer, and the Wolverine, while the Bay Shipbuilding River Class included the Sam Laud, Buffalo, Fred R. White Jr., and a heavily modified subclass in the American Republic. The reason these two wildly different designs can be lumped together is due to their dimensions of 630 feet for a waterline length with a beam of 68 feet. The Roger M. Kyes on the other hand was built to the same dimensions as Bay Shipbuilding’s Standard Class that included the Charles E. Wilson, H. Lee White [2], Joseph L. Block, and American Mariner. While these ships would all have a beam of 78 feet, they would progressively get longer in length. The first, the Charles E. Wilson had a waterline length of 680 feet. These are the exact same dimensions that the Roger M. Kyes was built to, making it more or less American Shipbuilding’s version of the Charles E. Wilson. Given that both ships were ordered by American Steamship, this makes a lot of sense. Essentially, the Roger M. Kyes was a scaled-up version of the William R. Roesch to meet the design requirements called for from American Steamship but were equipped with the same motors used for the Charles E. Wilson. The similarity to the American Shipbuilding’s three River Class vessels was purely only in their aesthetics. Had American Shipbuilding built more of these Standard Class vessels for American Steamship, they would have looked similar to the Kyes, but it was likely after comparing the larger cargo capacity of the Wilson to the Kyes, that American Steamship went exclusively with Bay Shipbuilding for their remaining Title IX ships. Like I said, I did a lot of research on this a while back planning to make my own video on the subject of Great Lakes Freighter classes of the 1970s, but the project got sidelined after I fell down the rabbit hole of post-WWII freighters. I have no gripes about the video, Wes. You always do a great job with these, and I always look forward to them; it’s just that I knew a lot about the subject in question. On a sidenote, I can’t speak for the Roesch, Thayer, or Wolverine, but the Kyes was very poorly designed and was a notorious rattletrap. The vibrations were so bad while in the river that at least one Chief Engineer I worked with wouldn’t allow anyone to enter the unloading tunnel while they were underway in the river. While it was the Adam E. Cornelius and chartered to Inland Steel, it was often referred to as the ‘Cornball’.
I'm sorry but I absolutely despise the all aft vessels. I much prefer the Classic Laker to these ugly round bow boats. Great Lakes boats should have a certain look and these don't have it. And yeah I know it has a job to do but you can do it with a little class.
Cleveland, Ohio can give ship nerds a great opportunity to see these vessels up close as they wind up the Cuyahoga River from Lake Erie. It's amazing to see these behemoths skillfully navigate up the "Crooked River" to the steel mills and go all the back out in reverse. I've been seeing the Wolverine go up and down the river since I was a small child. Even today, whenever I have a meal in the downtown Flats all of us Clevelanders waive at the crews and take pictures.
My interest in lake boats started when I was stuck in the car at the Zilwaukee bridge as a child. Suddenly being stuck in a traffic jam on the way "up north" was interesting and exciting as that behemoth slid by.
Cool story
So awesome of you not olny educating us on the history of ships but the history of Great Lakes shipping, learned so much just watching your videos, especially when it came into the history of the whaleback boats and barges , I actually bought a bunch of books on them Thanks for putting the time and r into everything you do
That's what it's all about... getting the correct information out
Thank you Wes for this posting, thank you David Story for the video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Ha! They gace you (or your friend anyway) a Captain's salute for being there to watch them! Good going!
They figure anyone dumb enough to stand out in the rain... gets a salute.
Great story as always Wes.
Thanks again!
Very informative and so interesting. Thank you.
Thanks!!!
Hey Wes good to see another good video, keep it up
Thanks, will do!
I am amazed at how big these ships are! Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks for watching!
I can't thank you enough for these videos.
My pleasure!
Thanks Wes!
You bet!
Thank you so much!
You're welcome!
As always, a great story and video! Thanks Wes!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good video...! I now have more knowledge about these ships that I Do See......t y
Glad to help
Love the look of them. It’s like a classic-modernish hybrid. I’m hoping to see the Robert S. Pierson very soon as she visits my area frequently
Great! Keep a watch out
Another excellent video Wes! I didn't realize these vessels had changed hands as much as they have.
(I guess I'm just hobby level boatnerd)
You and me both!
The Mark W. Barker, thr newest built and launched ship, is a River Class
He is talking about the original 1970s river class not the 2022 river class
@@Dannyedelman4231 ah
@@Littledancingdog yeah some people forget that there are multiple classes of the same ship
Fascinating - thanks!
Thank you too!
Thanks for another great video.
Full of history.
All the best Wes.
Many thanks!
Nothing brightens my day like a wes video! love the history, keep it up!
Glad to hear it!
Thanks Wes! Love your videos. This brought back some memories of when I sailed on the Roesch and the Kyes back in the early 1980's.
Very cool!
A very enjoyable video Wes. It's great to see them still plying the waters and rivers of the Great Lakes. I'd say they designed and built them well. True workhorses!
Totally agree
As always Wes, great video. As a younger (40yr old) wreck diver and Great Lakes Shipping history admirer, I am thankful to you and others for making and posting this history, so it won't be forgotten. Next time I am down in St. Joseph/ Benton Harbor, I'll try and get some updated pictures and send them to you, of (one whose name I currently can't remember), that is always dumping stones at a construction company's dock, St. Joe side of the river. Jim Scholz and I pass by it when we go diving. Hope you and your loved ones have a great weekend Sir.
Thanks! My best to you and yours as well.
Thank you
You're welcome
Again love seeing the pictures on the Saginaw river, look like it got more traffic back then
That was before the tug/barge abominations showed up and we had real boats.
@@authorwes yeah that Olive l Moore and the Menominee come in like every day there is no variation anymore…..
Good info there sir,I’ve encountered all 4 of them throughout the years and have videos of them on my channel
Great
I love the Alpena because the city has sentimental significance to me, but I also love the Paul R. Tregurtha.
Good boats indeed
Fascinating video. Wes, I'm writing from the Minneapolis area and am wondering what you would recommend as a must-see place/attraction regarding Great Lakes ships, shipwrecks, history, etc. I am thinking of doing a weekend, Great Lakes history road trip somewhere. Any museums, etc, you'd recommend (aside from the Duluth/Superior area, I've been there many times). Thanks, Jason.
Tons in the Duluth Superior area. Canal Park Museum, Irvin museum ship, Meteor museum ship will take up your whole trip, I'll bet
@@authorwes Thanks for your response, Wes. Keep up the good work.
Hey Wes....You mentioned that these designs moved the cabins aft. Have you done a video on forward bridge/cabin design philosophy vs the aft. Seems like the forward designs are only in the past.
Check this video: th-cam.com/video/97rDSMkjDKc/w-d-xo.html
@@authorwes Exactly what I was looking for. Great Job Thanks!👍
I can't remember seeing them. I bet the tight river maneuvers would make remarkable video.
Indeed
Hey Wes, whatcha know about this shipwreck found, recently, off Whitefish Point? Oooo, oooo, just saw on the news that it's a WHALEBACK!
Pretty exciting eh?
Growing up in the early 60's my Grandpa had a cottage on the south channel of Harsens Island in Lake St. Clair until they dredged out the channel behind this little spit of land the lake boats would sail right in front of the house. When we were heading out into the lake to fish we would pass all these freighters I wish I had a camera back then. In case anyone wanted to know the fresh caught perch dinners just about every night were delicious.
Wow... that is cool.
i worked on three of them
They seem to have basically gone with the regular Laker hull design and aft house design, then they slapped the top house on top of the aft house
Can someone explain, please, if there’s a practical reason for all accomodations to be aft? Or is this simply a design characteristic? Serious q. Thanks!
When everything is aft there's less wiring, mechanical work and so forth needed. It unfortunately makes the ship ugly but it's cost-effective.
@@bluerazor7049 thanks!
Adam Cornelius.....She did this, she did that!
I've always considered Great Republic, Sam Laud, American Courage and Algoma Buffalo to be River-class boats, too.
Yep
Why did they forsake the Pilot Cabin Forward & Engine Cabins Aft for the All Cabins Aft Arrangement? (This is rhetorical Question, because I know the logical answer).
easier on wiring and other things such as heating. Plus cheaper and easier for the Chinese to build... IMO
@@authorwes, easier for the Chinese to Build? So they no longer build ships in their own ship yards on the lakes.
Anyways, thanks for the info. Still, The Classic Design always looks better.
Also, it’s interesting how some of the Self-Unloading booms for the modern lake freighters are literally longer than some very old Lake Freighters.
shoulda made out of stainless and maybe they would sail forever???? Thanks Wes
Not quite as cool as the old forward pilothouse lakers, but still awesome to see.
I agree!
The only one I haven’t seen is the Compass
Keep looking!
22 seconds after you post
Yer quick dude.
384th!
I hate tie-ups on these mornings. Your cold , wet and the deck is slippery.
Yep
Yes frist to click the vid
ALL RIGHT!
Normally I wouldn’t kibitz with the likes of an expert like you, but I have to completely disagree with your inclusion of the Roger M. Kyes with the “River Class”. I’ve done a lot of research on the Title IX ships recently and it’s easier to classify the Title IX ships into divisions built among different builders. For example, the “River Class” vessels can be divided into two classes; those built by American Shipbuilding and Bay Shipbuilding. The American Shipbuilding River Class comprised of the William R. Roesch, the Paul Thayer, and the Wolverine, while the Bay Shipbuilding River Class included the Sam Laud, Buffalo, Fred R. White Jr., and a heavily modified subclass in the American Republic. The reason these two wildly different designs can be lumped together is due to their dimensions of 630 feet for a waterline length with a beam of 68 feet.
The Roger M. Kyes on the other hand was built to the same dimensions as Bay Shipbuilding’s Standard Class that included the Charles E. Wilson, H. Lee White [2], Joseph L. Block, and American Mariner. While these ships would all have a beam of 78 feet, they would progressively get longer in length. The first, the Charles E. Wilson had a waterline length of 680 feet. These are the exact same dimensions that the Roger M. Kyes was built to, making it more or less American Shipbuilding’s version of the Charles E. Wilson. Given that both ships were ordered by American Steamship, this makes a lot of sense. Essentially, the Roger M. Kyes was a scaled-up version of the William R. Roesch to meet the design requirements called for from American Steamship but were equipped with the same motors used for the Charles E. Wilson. The similarity to the American Shipbuilding’s three River Class vessels was purely only in their aesthetics. Had American Shipbuilding built more of these Standard Class vessels for American Steamship, they would have looked similar to the Kyes, but it was likely after comparing the larger cargo capacity of the Wilson to the Kyes, that American Steamship went exclusively with Bay Shipbuilding for their remaining Title IX ships.
Like I said, I did a lot of research on this a while back planning to make my own video on the subject of Great Lakes Freighter classes of the 1970s, but the project got sidelined after I fell down the rabbit hole of post-WWII freighters. I have no gripes about the video, Wes. You always do a great job with these, and I always look forward to them; it’s just that I knew a lot about the subject in question. On a sidenote, I can’t speak for the Roesch, Thayer, or Wolverine, but the Kyes was very poorly designed and was a notorious rattletrap. The vibrations were so bad while in the river that at least one Chief Engineer I worked with wouldn’t allow anyone to enter the unloading tunnel while they were underway in the river. While it was the Adam E. Cornelius and chartered to Inland Steel, it was often referred to as the ‘Cornball’.
Ok
@@authorwes Message received. Loud and clear.
Calumet still a rock solid ship. But she hauls a lot of salt these days, which is basically a death sentence.
Yep
THEY HAVE BEEN SAILING FOR ALMOST FIFTY UYEARS AND NO ONE IS BUILDING NEW ONES ?
The Mark W. Barker came out this year... from a US shipyard.
I'm sorry but I absolutely despise the all aft vessels. I much prefer the Classic Laker to these ugly round bow boats. Great Lakes boats should have a certain look and these don't have it. And yeah I know it has a job to do but you can do it with a little class.
Pretty much my feeling too... especially these Chinese-built Equinox class... bahhh