The three differences covered in this video: - Vim is developed and maintained by one person - Nvim is developed and maintained by the community - Vim does not support asynchronous execution - Nvim does support asynchronous execution - Vim does not have great LUA support - Nvim does have great LUA support All of that for 10 minutes
but I don't know if this videos is just old or have a lot of miss-conceptions, but Vim is no developed by one person. Braum makes the merges, but there is a team and people that constantly add to it. Vim does support async execution and Vim does support Lua, it's not it's main language, yes, but it does support it, and I don't know if have made functions or plugins in Lua for vim, but my functions work the same, I have to do the same API calls... so I don't know... i prefer TJ comment on it, "it´s not about features, it's about focus"
...and 2 of the three are wrong (vim does have a community of contributors, it's just that patches aren't contributed through github, and it does have async execution as of version 8). That said, I thing the Lua support is huge, and we've seen great neovim plugins thanks to it.
@@lazyeclipse the vim contributions may come from the community. but they are much less open to contributions from the discussions i've read. so my impression is that the author of the commits does say a lot about who's in control
I use an AZERTY keyboard, and only neovim can understand special character for map command like "map à 0" or other non ASCII character, so I recommend it to anyone with a keyboard with those kind of unusual keys on it.
@@yes-vy6bnyeah but you can compile vim with lua support (with luajit, optionally) if you want. you can even compile vim with support for scheme if you were so inclined. so plain old vim does support lua + luajit. and as far as async stuff, i tend to run commands in a separate tmux pane - but when i need to do something in the background from vim i just run it as a background job. for example, i have some bash function that tries to render a file in an x11 window. i have a vim keybinding to view the current file (for markdown mostly) that just calls this bash function and sends it to the background.
Your point about vim being developed by a single person vs neovim being a community project seems a bit strange, since in your video capture of the vim commit history, every single commit was a patch merge. What I'm seeing is just different merge methods: a single commiter applying patches, vs merging pull requests. Also my experience with the quality of code when it's mostly a single person writing it vs a large number of people submitting changes is quite the opposite of what you described.
TJ Devries (one of the core nvim developers) made a response. He also responded to that Stackoverflow "Modern IDEs are Magic" article. They are both entertaining.
@@jamesdickerson6726 when the single developer in charge is a real guru like Linus Torvalds, Mike Pall, etc. Then yes, having that BDFL can be great for the project. But Bram is no where near as competent as those guys. Every single feature added to Vim over the past half decade has been a reaction and playing catch up to the excellent work done by the Neovim team: asynchronous execution, terminal mode, etc. But even with his best efforts, Bram's Vim still lacks behind Neovim in terms of features. Lua (with Luajit) support, built-in LSP client to name a few major things. There's simply no comparison which project is better at this point, empirical results speak for themselves.
Actually, you should remove systemd, glibc, and all other glow-in-the-dark software. The only thing you need is grub, vmlinuz, a minimal HolyC compiler, and the version of vi provided by busybox.
also I got rid of my mouse and keyboard and now just have two buttons: a 0 and a 1. I believe that compilers and interpreters are bloat so I just use these buttons to input cpu instructions directly into the machine.
Three most immediate thing you'll notice about nvim is that "+ actually works. If you have vim preinstalled, depending on your distro, it will be compiled with the -clipboard flag disabled. Meaning you'd have to select your text with the mouse like a noob and Ctrl+Shift+C from your terminal emulator to send someone a code snippet or something. This is horrible not only be at you touch the mouse while using vim (which is sacrilege), but also because if you have long lines you will lose indentation. The soluit for this is to download the source code for vim and compile it yourself with that flag enabled. But if you're gonna go that far, might as well just switch to neovim.
Isn't this the distros fault rather than vim's fault? I mean if I had to judge whatever one car type is better than another, then I wouldn't compare a newly made car with a car where someone had bashed in all the windows with a hammer :P
Had this problem long ago. Found the answer in the INSTALL file on /src while trying to fix a valgrind problem, you need to install libxt-dev and recompile.
Having worked with/for many large tech companies, I disagree with the generalization that single author is usually messier. In fact, I would say the reverse is far more common, but that it really boils down to the style of the repo owners. I have definitely seen both, but I would say about 90% of repos with more than 5 contributors are messy, whereas single contributors it's more like 50/50. There is a sweet spot where a few people keep each other honest because they are embarrassed to commit sloppy code, but there are still few enough of them to coordinate and communicate in an organized fashion. In fact, I would say of the 10% clean codebases with many contributors, the vast majority were ruled with an iron fist where only 1 or 2 people had the power to accept PRs.
Fun facts: The original "vi" editor was written by Bill Joy at Berkley.. And, there was once a editor called "nvi" that was bug-for-bug compatible with original vi editor. vim evolved from an editor called "stevie".
'vi' was the only choice when I was in college. We used dumb terminals in the computer labs to access the mainframes. At home, vi was efficient enough for editing code over a 2400 baud modem connection. At my first job in the early 90's after I graduated, I had to program in MSDOS. I found 'vile', a vi editor, was blazing fast compared to other DOS ports. Over the course of my career, I've converted quite a few coworkers to 'vi'. It's like a cult.
Coming from a background in college, learning Nano, Emacs and Vim is really difficult, we always programmed Java using Eclipse and Python/C++ etc using Geany/VSCode if on Windows/Mac etc. Really happy that Vim, Nano and Emacs are very well documented and information is easy to find, idk, my two cents. Probably just gonna stick with Vim cause it seems alot easier once you get a bit more experience with the program.
Once you get over that initial learning curve with Vim, it really does make a world of difference. I have EVERYTHING on my computer with vim-like bindings. Qutebrowser, dwm window manager, etc. It really is the most efficient way of doing things.
@@jamesdickerson6726 learning curve? that's whole lot of learning and curving for a 2 second edit to the fstab file. Having take a course on vi and vim, Nano is life. i propose a national holiday for Nano.
@Big Perx I've done it too sometimes... but for easy to understand programs. With all the memes and whatnot about vim, you'd think people would research a little.
2:14 "as far as commits are concerned" yeah, sometimes someone else makes the changes, but when they are merged, the commit is shown by the maintainer. and here as well, u can see that these are the patches commited by him. And as the licence of vim mentions, that changes/patches can be mailed to him to get them merged. so.... that's that. TL;DR: the commit history's overview there doesnt says much about if others are involved or not. Edit: oh, ohkay, this is addressed immediately after.
I've been using vim since I was a kid. Always been sufficient for my purposes. As far as I'm concerned, it's a black box with lightly colored text and a unique input method. If I ever have to do a significant amount of code editing via a non-graphical interface, I'll give neovim a try. Sounds cool. Hopefully it's compatible with my screen rc file. Pixel pushing in an rc file is a real pain in the ass.
I feel like we should make a malware that opens and fullscreen Vim/Neovim whenever they use their computer. Would probably help alot with computer literacy
I never had the patience to learn Vi/Vim properly. There are so many nice and intuitive graphical editors, that don't rudely beep at you as you're trying to type, and you don't have to read the manual on how to quit.
What's the point of running single GPU pssstrough? Only benefit I can see is faster change to guest os. Also if thigns haven't changed you can't reattach the driver back to the host so you will need to restart anyways if you change between them.
@@luimu fake news, you can do that without rebooting. That is, if you ssh to your host from whatever you have, including the VM. Also, single GPU passthrough can allow you to try distros without having to partition a disk, and you'll end up with an environment that's almost the same as your bare-metal machine
“Ed is the standard text editor.” Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all. ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
Oooh, that makes a lot of difference. I just took it for granted that I could find a VHDL language server connection, but the native support made it ludicrously easy.
Anything vim lacks compared to neovim can be added with plugins. But something vim can do that neovim can NEVER do is ssh into a remote system and edit a file directly in the terminal.
@@christoesh8901 I mean everything except for using a lua config. (Maybe through rpc, but I'm not sure.) Also what makes you think you can't edit files through ssh with neovim? Both opening a remote file directly through neovim, as well as editing with neovim through an ssh connection work just like with vim.
I've been self teaching peogramming for the past year. Decided to learn vim and I'm really enjoying it! It reminds me of when I used to play RTS games with lots of keybindings. I now understand why people love it.
One more thing you forgot to mention is that neovim has its config file stored in .config while vim has it in the home directory. It may be important for some users
heck, i was supposed to go to sleep 4 hours ago... but then i kept on trying to install vim plug and i thought i was running vim and my .vimrc was in home and stuff like that... turns out, my whole life was a lie
I know it’s been 2 years but that’s specifically why I use neovim. I refuse to use programs that won’t adhere to XDG standards. Or I’ll build the program from source and make it XDG compliant. I hate clutter in my home directory 😭
@@alouisschafer7212 it's because neovim's use case is for desktop users who live in their mother's basement, in a place where nobody else uses the computer. VIM's configuration is in the user's home folder because it's intended for use on both single user and multi user machines, so that the computer's users can have individual VIM configs to suit their needs instead of a single global configuration that every user has to deal with.
The burning question for me is usually "How much of a PITA is it going to be to install, configure, and maintain?" All in all, a good summary of the two editors, though.
I was using vim as my main editor. Once I tried to symlink vimrc to neovim config, and alias vim=nvim. And I found that neovim loads much faster compared to vim. Since then I use neovim.
neovim does tend to get more bugs in newer features, but they are usually pretty quickly squashed. vim is a little more conservative and doesn't have as many flashy terminal features or support for random scripting languages … but if you don't need or care about those features, it almost doesn't matter which one you use. A major feature of neovim for me is yank buffer integration with the system clipboard. You *can* do it with vim with the right stuff enabled, but nvim just has it. (On Debian systems for example, you need the full-fat GUI-enabled version of vim to have the feature at all, even if you're only ever going to run it in a terminal.) If any scripts or plugins you use are vimscript-based, they ought to work in both. But it's possible to turn neovim into a modal VSCode-alike if you don't mind running some typescript node.js crap along with your already not insubstantial editor. My init.vim works as a .vimrc on any system with vim 8 and git. (I do use a few plugins-vim-sensible, editorconfig-vim, and a few syntax plugins mostly.
I’m lost using LARBS. I’m a noob and I don’t even know how to customize it and make it my own. Change terminal color, change default browser, change fonts on the dwmblocks or terminal etc.
@@kevyyar Starting slowly from scratch could help. Using someone else's configs seems like it could easily become overwhelming because you will suddenly have to learn a bunch of new tools all at the same time. I recommend installing a simple distribution and learning whatever you're most interested in first, and then gradually adopting new tools and moving to systems that require a little more knowledge. There is no rush.
@@censoredterminalautism4073 In some cases it might but I did not want to spend time trying to get a usable setup. Instead I went with a usable setup already in place and learning the configuration stuff as I go along. @kevthedev just have a look at the variables defined in config.h for DWM in .local/src/dwm. You can change the file manager DWM looks for to a bash variable $FM and then change your prefered file manager directly from .bashrc without having to recompile DWM (You will have to recompile it once though). For changing colors, just install 'wal' and run "setbg img.png" and it will both change the background and the color scheme intelligently derived from the image. It works great.
tbh since I use arch I very rarely see bugs, and never noticed any in neovim. And the rare times I spotted something going wrong on arch it was pretty easy and straightforward to fix it. Compared to when I was using ubuntu and spotting bugs all the time, I consider arch much safer.
also neovim weighs 20+ MB when vim takes up only 4 KB or something, you can even write it on a floppy disk if you really want to not that much compared to other editors though
I just started to dive into Vim a year ago, and as of today I'm happy with it as it is. The whole structure is genius, Moolenar is doing a great job, the single dev model paid off quite well so far. Also there are no features I need that nvim provides. Except maybe the Chromium integration, that would be nice to have, while I'm pretty sure it can be done with good ol' Vim. Yet it isn't available for Vim, and that's where my biggest concern with NVim lies. For some rarely useful "cool" features it introduced an ever growing level of incompatibility that divides community efforts, diverts it to improve that specific environment, which will gradually push the original project into obscurity. The project and its author, who by himself delivered many of the best ideas and concepts I've ever seen in an editor. While vimscript is unquestionably weird, most of the design choices have been made for very good reasons, such that once you get the hang of it, it's extremely efficient for the task it's aimed for, it's compact, and with Vim 9 it will run competitively fast as well. Now they push clunky Lua to be the new standard? That was never aimed to be used for text processing? Being a relative newbie, I'm staying away from NVim, the direction it's headed just doesn't feel right. Waiting to encounter the first real world problem that one can't solve with the original. And when (if ever) that happens, I'll figure how to do it anyways. I love messy code that works, it always tells a lot more about the original thought process of the author than some sterilized, cleaned up nth iteration. Obviously working on it needs more patience, but for that extra investment it rewards you with much more insight. And much less shame when you apply some hacky solution on top of all the layers of previous hacky solutions made by others. In a sense, it's a much better environment for creative thinking.
@matwyder thanks for the thoughtful comment. I'm a year deep into writing code... using VS Code and have been wondering about Vim. I like what you said. I like VS Code for all the extensions. Would you say jumping into Vim will prove more rewarding? I hear about the speed, and some suggestions that it's like a glove for your coding hands. What's your opinion?
Idk if I like vim playing catch-up with nvim Vim is supposed to be reliable. It's supposed to be the thing that saves your ass when you're in Ctrl+Alt+F2 tryina see why your computer won't boot
NeoVim is a fork of Vim. Essentially Bram Moolenaar did all the work for both and I see NeoVim as a bit of a backstab to Vim's creator. Also Bram pushes hard for people to donate to helping children in Uganda which makes him a bloody good guy in my opinion. Use Vim and do the right thing.
I had thought this might be so, so i used the UNIX time command to compare, and Neovim was more CPU intensive despite its code being so 'clean'. It used more memory too.
The thing that I hate so far is that I cannot replicate really easy functionality in NeoVim that's present in Vim, for example --remote-silent. No, I'm not going to download a linux-only extension because I'm on Windows... Such things just make me afraid of using new tools, because they omit such simple things...
I've tried getting into Kakoune, but the documentation is a bit painful. If there's one thing (Neo)Vim get(s) right, it's its massive amount of documentation.
Thaks for the advice. I was an Atom code editor user... But now that Microsoft k!led it, I am looking into something more stable. I belive that VIM is the way foreward for me, thank You :)
@Mental Outlaw, could you do a video on image editors? I keep a windows laptop aside specifically for photoshop because of how inconvenient GIMP’s default settings are.
I watched this cause my friend was like "stop using vim, use nvim" and I didn't knew the differences, well I still feel like the only difference is who made it
I am a happy emacs user. It took me time to understand but I can’t use vim or neovim anymore . Emacs is just too damn good , it blows my mind when i want to do something special and i find it builtin 😀 Plus this neovim thing took forever, i am no longer excited .
Love your videos! Do you think you could start leaving at least another few seconds of silence after the end though so that if they're in a playlist (like Watch Later) the next video doesn't automatically play unexpectedly? 😅
If you are just learning vim motions and can't keep your hands on the homerow ...chances are that you just want an editor and find the trend around Vim/Neovim interesting. If that's the case, it frankly doesn't matter witch one you chose if you just want to learn and edit more code than configuration files. Just have fun at editing, and you'll find out later.
Spaghetti code does not necessarily mean bloat, it just means code that is so convoluted that it's hard for other developers to understand. Like not respecting encapsulation and accessing anything from anywhere will create a sort of web you wouldn't want to untangle unless you're the one who wrote it.
re 8.37 I don't think forking with the intent of "competing" with the parent branch is particularly useful to users or developers unless it introduces features or develops on ideas that would disrupt user workflow.
Liking NVIM out of the box a little better. But if one must ssh into servers regularly, there is an incentive to be fluent with default VIM. Surprised this tradeoff didn't make the video.
you should look at video where the neovim core maintainer is criticizing this video, you have some malinformed and missing pieces in your video otherwise keep up the good work !!
The three differences covered in this video:
- Vim is developed and maintained by one person
- Nvim is developed and maintained by the community
- Vim does not support asynchronous execution
- Nvim does support asynchronous execution
- Vim does not have great LUA support
- Nvim does have great LUA support
All of that for 10 minutes
but I don't know if this videos is just old or have a lot of miss-conceptions, but Vim is no developed by one person. Braum makes the merges, but there is a team and people that constantly add to it. Vim does support async execution and Vim does support Lua, it's not it's main language, yes, but it does support it, and I don't know if have made functions or plugins in Lua for vim, but my functions work the same, I have to do the same API calls... so I don't know... i prefer TJ comment on it, "it´s not about features, it's about focus"
Thanks
...and 2 of the three are wrong (vim does have a community of contributors, it's just that patches aren't contributed through github, and it does have async execution as of version 8). That said, I thing the Lua support is huge, and we've seen great neovim plugins thanks to it.
@@lazyeclipse the vim contributions may come from the community. but they are much less open to contributions from the discussions i've read. so my impression is that the author of the commits does say a lot about who's in control
@sidhanth rathod Ain't no way you're advertising your neovim rice 💀. You've already got 10k stars calm down.
Easy random character generator: get a random person in front of Vi and ask him to close the program
I believe you would get even more random strings if you ask them to wrote their name in something lile notepad..
plot twist they close the terminal
@Big Poppin’ Jake the joke is that it's unintuitive to normies so they'll type random stuff trying to close it
:wq is for masochists that like typing too much, use ZZ
@@igorswies5913 I use ZZ to save, ZX to save and quit and ZC to quit without saving
Nothing beats a good old pencil and some paper.
Bloat. Just use your own blood and draw with your finger
Best debugger around: a spreadsheet on accounting/engineering paper
No
Except, you know, fire, water, bugs, etc…
Scissor beats paper
The chad answer is typically: Whichever is already installed
nano
ed is the standard text editor.
vi
I like chad
gedit
I use an AZERTY keyboard, and only neovim can understand special character for map command like "map à 0" or other non ASCII character, so I recommend it to anyone with a keyboard with those kind of unusual keys on it.
>I use an AZERTY keyboard
Um I'm thinking based
Yes! This is a must for Portuguese speakers. And the alt key functions are a good reason too.
@@felipej.oribeiro6700 Belgium uses Azerty aswell iirc
Try french swiss keyboard it's better
Thanks! This comment was exactly the info I was looking for, wasn't expecting to find it so quickly, if at all!
I can't exit both so there isn't really any change for me
:wqa!
@@NeveJay ZZ > ...
just unplug computer
buy a new computer entirely
@@MentalOutlaw and wait for battery to run down. only 3 days to quit vim on my old laptop. I get faster every day.
But for real.
Vim has the superior logo
Tbh, I see it as a bit old compared to the N in nvim.
True. It's a pretty cool logo.
Mmmm maybe it's nota really good
The virgin VIM and NeoVIM vs the chad not knowing how to do shell scripts in the first place
Vs the Giga-Chad who never used an internet connection to begin with
chad nano
vs Lad > echo “stuff” >> thing.file
wtf lad?
Would Emacs be the wizard or is that just ed?
dad Kate
As a beginner in vim, what i am getting from this video is that i don't know enough to need neovim.
hehe, seems so will be the case for me too
What I'm getting is: it's absolutely safe to learn Vim. If I run into some limitation, I can change over without having to unlearn anything.
they're both essentially the same, but neovim is faster because it uses luajit instead of some some janky homemade language called vim script
@@yes-vy6bnyeah but you can compile vim with lua support (with luajit, optionally) if you want. you can even compile vim with support for scheme if you were so inclined. so plain old vim does support lua + luajit. and as far as async stuff, i tend to run commands in a separate tmux pane - but when i need to do something in the background from vim i just run it as a background job. for example, i have some bash function that tries to render a file in an x11 window. i have a vim keybinding to view the current file (for markdown mostly) that just calls this bash function and sends it to the background.
Your point about vim being developed by a single person vs neovim being a community project seems a bit strange, since in your video capture of the vim commit history, every single commit was a patch merge. What I'm seeing is just different merge methods: a single commiter applying patches, vs merging pull requests.
Also my experience with the quality of code when it's mostly a single person writing it vs a large number of people submitting changes is quite the opposite of what you described.
TJ Devries (one of the core nvim developers) made a response. He also responded to that Stackoverflow "Modern IDEs are Magic" article. They are both entertaining.
Full ack. Things getting "messy" defintely more a multi contributor problem.
Bram merges every patch submitted by others by hand. That’s not a healthy development flow for any large project.
^ this. 100% things tend to be more efficient and uniform with one developer. Truer to it's actual vision.
@@jamesdickerson6726 when the single developer in charge is a real guru like Linus Torvalds, Mike Pall, etc. Then yes, having that BDFL can be great for the project. But Bram is no where near as competent as those guys. Every single feature added to Vim over the past half decade has been a reaction and playing catch up to the excellent work done by the Neovim team: asynchronous execution, terminal mode, etc. But even with his best efforts, Bram's Vim still lacks behind Neovim in terms of features. Lua (with Luajit) support, built-in LSP client to name a few major things. There's simply no comparison which project is better at this point, empirical results speak for themselves.
Actually, you should remove systemd, glibc, and all other glow-in-the-dark software. The only thing you need is grub, vmlinuz, a minimal HolyC compiler, and the version of vi provided by busybox.
The CIA ni.....
nah, use just the kernel and emacs ;)
@@drishalballaney6590 emacs doesn't have a kernel yet? smh
no need for vi, just use ed
also I got rid of my mouse and keyboard and now just have two buttons: a 0 and a 1. I believe that compilers and interpreters are bloat so I just use these buttons to input cpu instructions directly into the machine.
So, the bottom like is, if you don’t run an old computer from the 80’s, then go for Neovim.
You misspelled "Emacs"
@@Mjs96117 Good one!
@@Mjs96117 you misspelled "Doom Emacs"
@@Mjs96117 Sorry, I don't need an OS within my OS. I have virtual machines for that.
@@flexagonpark5467 you misspelled “O26”
Three most immediate thing you'll notice about nvim is that "+ actually works. If you have vim preinstalled, depending on your distro, it will be compiled with the -clipboard flag disabled. Meaning you'd have to select your text with the mouse like a noob and Ctrl+Shift+C from your terminal emulator to send someone a code snippet or something. This is horrible not only be at you touch the mouse while using vim (which is sacrilege), but also because if you have long lines you will lose indentation. The soluit for this is to download the source code for vim and compile it yourself with that flag enabled. But if you're gonna go that far, might as well just switch to neovim.
Isn't this the distros fault rather than vim's fault?
I mean if I had to judge whatever one car type is better than another, then I wouldn't compare a newly made car with a car where someone had bashed in all the windows with a hammer :P
when that happened to me on arch I just installed gVim which is just vim but it come with a GUI you'll never use and "+p and "*p
Had this problem long ago. Found the answer in the INSTALL file on /src while trying to fix a valgrind problem, you need to install libxt-dev and recompile.
@@revnouken9913 I've never see Lupin but I've heard its a classic, should probably get to watching it.
but would you use a mouse for selection? in vim ? no right ?
Light themed github killing my eyes in 1am
I have vim and my entire terminal in light mode
@@weakspirit_ recently I also found out how to get tty in light mode
you're all madmen
@@Lmao-ke9lq there are some browser extensions that you can use.
Having worked with/for many large tech companies, I disagree with the generalization that single author is usually messier. In fact, I would say the reverse is far more common, but that it really boils down to the style of the repo owners.
I have definitely seen both, but I would say about 90% of repos with more than 5 contributors are messy, whereas single contributors it's more like 50/50.
There is a sweet spot where a few people keep each other honest because they are embarrassed to commit sloppy code, but there are still few enough of them to coordinate and communicate in an organized fashion.
In fact, I would say of the 10% clean codebases with many contributors, the vast majority were ruled with an iron fist where only 1 or 2 people had the power to accept PRs.
Fun facts: The original "vi" editor was written by Bill Joy at Berkley.. And, there was once a editor called "nvi" that was bug-for-bug compatible with original vi editor. vim evolved from an editor called "stevie".
'vi' was the only choice when I was in college. We used dumb terminals in the computer labs to access the mainframes. At home, vi was efficient enough for editing code over a 2400 baud modem connection. At my first job in the early 90's after I graduated, I had to program in MSDOS. I found 'vile', a vi editor, was blazing fast compared to other DOS ports.
Over the course of my career, I've converted quite a few coworkers to 'vi'. It's like a cult.
Coming from a background in college, learning Nano, Emacs and Vim is really difficult, we always programmed Java using Eclipse and Python/C++ etc using Geany/VSCode if on Windows/Mac etc. Really happy that Vim, Nano and Emacs are very well documented and information is easy to find, idk, my two cents. Probably just gonna stick with Vim cause it seems alot easier once you get a bit more experience with the program.
in my university all of our coding in c had to be done in vim and now i can't stand working in vs code
i find nano easier to use than vim
Once you get over that initial learning curve with Vim, it really does make a world of difference. I have EVERYTHING on my computer with vim-like bindings. Qutebrowser, dwm window manager, etc. It really is the most efficient way of doing things.
@@jamesdickerson6726 learning curve? that's whole lot of learning and curving for a 2 second edit to the fstab file. Having take a course on vi and vim, Nano is life. i propose a national holiday for Nano.
@@cdoublejj Are you trolling or are you really that proud to be unskilled using a console version of Notepad?
"Tipe q to exit" One of the biggest lies in history.
You type ':' to enter command mode, then type q and enter to exit
@@chefravioli4924 You also need exclamation mark (!) at the end.
@@giatu1 only if you don’t want to save the changes made
it says type :q to exit.
And who doesn't read the docs before using something?
@Big Perx I've done it too sometimes... but for easy to understand programs. With all the memes and whatnot about vim, you'd think people would research a little.
A demo of actual visible difference would have been nice though. 👍🏽
2:14 "as far as commits are concerned"
yeah, sometimes someone else makes the changes, but when they are merged, the commit is shown by the maintainer. and here as well, u can see that these are the patches commited by him. And as the licence of vim mentions, that changes/patches can be mailed to him to get them merged. so.... that's that.
TL;DR: the commit history's overview there doesnt says much about if others are involved or not.
Edit: oh, ohkay, this is addressed immediately after.
I've been using vim since I was a kid. Always been sufficient for my purposes. As far as I'm concerned, it's a black box with lightly colored text and a unique input method. If I ever have to do a significant amount of code editing via a non-graphical interface, I'll give neovim a try. Sounds cool. Hopefully it's compatible with my screen rc file. Pixel pushing in an rc file is a real pain in the ass.
how? kids are not that smart.
@@brissance I graduated highschool as salutatorian with an associate of arts degree. Some kids are that smart.
@@k98killerAA is pretty easy bro.. Had my AA credits done by junior year HS
Vim and Nvim are overrated, I just write on paper and scan it
I feel like we should make a malware that opens and fullscreen Vim/Neovim whenever they use their computer. Would probably help alot with computer literacy
Knowing esoteric keybindings = computer literacy
Okay
@@xtdycxtfuv9353 if you are referencing Ctrl+W+q for quit, then you are one of the computer illiterates
Great video Kenny, now do a shirtless one.
I never had the patience to learn Vi/Vim properly. There are so many nice and intuitive graphical editors, that don't rudely beep at you as you're trying to type, and you don't have to read the manual on how to quit.
shit needs to be easy to use for my normie brain
all shitty bloatware
When you learn that it is fucking fast
Talk about single GPU pass trough in Gentoo. There's a post on r/Gentoo with the title: gentoo single gpu vfio passthrough scripts
i second this message
Same. I would love to do it but Muta's tutorial didn't work for me and I have great difficulty reading and understanding the stuff myself.
@@Neko-kun-dp1hq Same. It is hard af to setup virt Manager perfectly
What's the point of running single GPU pssstrough? Only benefit I can see is faster change to guest os. Also if thigns haven't changed you can't reattach the driver back to the host so you will need to restart anyways if you change between them.
@@luimu fake news, you can do that without rebooting. That is, if you ssh to your host from whatever you have, including the VM.
Also, single GPU passthrough can allow you to try distros without having to partition a disk, and you'll end up with an environment that's almost the same as your bare-metal machine
“Ed is the standard text editor.”
Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.
ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
?
What happened to good old “O26”?
*in a really thick Australian accent* na-no
næ-noy
Could be a dankpods reference, could be wrong.
@@eccomi21 glad someone noticed it
@@Zuudo durr dollaridooos
Goes well with this mate
Weird how I had just installed both these morning and you made a video abt them 😂 , keep up the good work
Just today I asked myself this very question! You have been so on point with these vids that I happily disable my adblock for these :) Cheers mate
Built-in LSP client and Treesitter are also 2 big differentiators for Neovim
One big difference is that neovim natively includes a lsp-client, which is invaluable for people who write code.
Oooh, that makes a lot of difference. I just took it for granted that I could find a VHDL language server connection, but the native support made it ludicrously easy.
@@adissentingopinion848 Also it is possible to write your config in lua instead of vimscript
Anything vim lacks compared to neovim can be added with plugins. But something vim can do that neovim can NEVER do is ssh into a remote system and edit a file directly in the terminal.
@@christoesh8901 I mean everything except for using a lua config. (Maybe through rpc, but I'm not sure.)
Also what makes you think you can't edit files through ssh with neovim?
Both opening a remote file directly through neovim, as well as editing with neovim through an ssh connection work just like with vim.
@@remrevo3944 Cause most servers won't have it installed.
it feels unique to watch ur videos man . ur channel is like a shelter that protects us from the trendy BS
I've been self teaching peogramming for the past year. Decided to learn vim and I'm really enjoying it! It reminds me of when I used to play RTS games with lots of keybindings. I now understand why people love it.
RIP Bram
WAHT
Bram Moolenaar, 1961 - 3 August 2023 (aged 62)... welp rip
that really set the foundation for the two thank you - have an excellent day!
One more thing you forgot to mention is that neovim has its config file stored in .config while vim has it in the home directory. It may be important for some users
why would they do that? Seems illogical.
heck, i was supposed to go to sleep 4 hours ago... but then i kept on trying to install vim plug and i thought i was running vim and my .vimrc was in home and stuff like that... turns out, my whole life was a lie
I know it’s been 2 years but that’s specifically why I use neovim. I refuse to use programs that won’t adhere to XDG standards.
Or I’ll build the program from source and make it XDG compliant.
I hate clutter in my home directory 😭
@@alouisschafer7212 it's because neovim's use case is for desktop users who live in their mother's basement, in a place where nobody else uses the computer. VIM's configuration is in the user's home folder because it's intended for use on both single user and multi user machines, so that the computer's users can have individual VIM configs to suit their needs instead of a single global configuration that every user has to deal with.
@@christopherjenkins6174 you just outed yourself as a neet
The burning question for me is usually "How much of a PITA is it going to be to install, configure, and maintain?" All in all, a good summary of the two editors, though.
Thanks for the video.
Knowing the commands are compatible allows me to use sites to learn these commands before go to NeoVim.
I've always wondered what's the difference between the two, so thank U so the video :3
I was using vim as my main editor. Once I tried to symlink vimrc to neovim config, and alias vim=nvim. And I found that neovim loads much faster compared to vim. Since then I use neovim.
neovim does tend to get more bugs in newer features, but they are usually pretty quickly squashed. vim is a little more conservative and doesn't have as many flashy terminal features or support for random scripting languages … but if you don't need or care about those features, it almost doesn't matter which one you use. A major feature of neovim for me is yank buffer integration with the system clipboard. You *can* do it with vim with the right stuff enabled, but nvim just has it. (On Debian systems for example, you need the full-fat GUI-enabled version of vim to have the feature at all, even if you're only ever going to run it in a terminal.)
If any scripts or plugins you use are vimscript-based, they ought to work in both. But it's possible to turn neovim into a modal VSCode-alike if you don't mind running some typescript node.js crap along with your already not insubstantial editor. My init.vim works as a .vimrc on any system with vim 8 and git. (I do use a few plugins-vim-sensible, editorconfig-vim, and a few syntax plugins mostly.
blud u could just compile vim with plus clibord and b chillin my guy no need for fat vim
and pls dont turn ur neovim into vscode bruh
I was literally thinking about this when I recently starting using LARBS and you upload a video on it.
I’m lost using LARBS. I’m a noob and I don’t even know how to customize it and make it my own. Change terminal color, change default browser, change fonts on the dwmblocks or terminal etc.
@@kevyyar Starting slowly from scratch could help. Using someone else's configs seems like it could easily become overwhelming because you will suddenly have to learn a bunch of new tools all at the same time. I recommend installing a simple distribution and learning whatever you're most interested in first, and then gradually adopting new tools and moving to systems that require a little more knowledge. There is no rush.
@@censoredterminalautism4073 In some cases it might but I did not want to spend time trying to get a usable setup. Instead I went with a usable setup already in place and learning the configuration stuff as I go along. @kevthedev just have a look at the variables defined in config.h for DWM in .local/src/dwm. You can change the file manager DWM looks for to a bash variable $FM and then change your prefered file manager directly from .bashrc without having to recompile DWM (You will have to recompile it once though). For changing colors, just install 'wal' and run "setbg img.png" and it will both change the background and the color scheme intelligently derived from the image. It works great.
tbh since I use arch I very rarely see bugs, and never noticed any in neovim. And the rare times I spotted something going wrong on arch it was pretty easy and straightforward to fix it. Compared to when I was using ubuntu and spotting bugs all the time, I consider arch much safer.
btw...
Well, thank you for bringing some things up... Last 20 years vim now Neovim. Thank you from me here...
citation needed but i thought last time i looked at installing neovim that is was unconfined... plain 'ole vim is already wonderful thanks for sharing
echo $x > file.foo
there, hope that answers this question.
cat file.foo > file.bar
i'm sorry but there's only ed, the standard editor.
cat > textfile
content...
ctrl+d
@@sayanghosh6996 real chad never makes a mistake
also neovim weighs 20+ MB when vim takes up only 4 KB or something, you can even write it on a floppy disk if you really want to
not that much compared to other editors though
Both take around 30mb (not sure) the reason of vim taking 4kb is that with neovim you already installed most of the dependencies that also vim needs
That's a symlink bro
Doesn't Neovim drop some legacy terminal support? If it does, no thanks.
In my case I learned how to exit Vim, but that's all I can do. Vim seems unintuitive, VS code is much more confortable and has a lot of functionality.
Got it, installing nvim on my new Framework laptop right away :)
I just started to dive into Vim a year ago, and as of today I'm happy with it as it is. The whole structure is genius, Moolenar is doing a great job, the single dev model paid off quite well so far. Also there are no features I need that nvim provides. Except maybe the Chromium integration, that would be nice to have, while I'm pretty sure it can be done with good ol' Vim.
Yet it isn't available for Vim, and that's where my biggest concern with NVim lies. For some rarely useful "cool" features it introduced an ever growing level of incompatibility that divides community efforts, diverts it to improve that specific environment, which will gradually push the original project into obscurity. The project and its author, who by himself delivered many of the best ideas and concepts I've ever seen in an editor.
While vimscript is unquestionably weird, most of the design choices have been made for very good reasons, such that once you get the hang of it, it's extremely efficient for the task it's aimed for, it's compact, and with Vim 9 it will run competitively fast as well. Now they push clunky Lua to be the new standard? That was never aimed to be used for text processing? Being a relative newbie, I'm staying away from NVim, the direction it's headed just doesn't feel right.
Waiting to encounter the first real world problem that one can't solve with the original. And when (if ever) that happens, I'll figure how to do it anyways. I love messy code that works, it always tells a lot more about the original thought process of the author than some sterilized, cleaned up nth iteration. Obviously working on it needs more patience, but for that extra investment it rewards you with much more insight. And much less shame when you apply some hacky solution on top of all the layers of previous hacky solutions made by others. In a sense, it's a much better environment for creative thinking.
@matwyder thanks for the thoughtful comment. I'm a year deep into writing code... using VS Code and have been wondering about Vim. I like what you said. I like VS Code for all the extensions. Would you say jumping into Vim will prove more rewarding? I hear about the speed, and some suggestions that it's like a glove for your coding hands. What's your opinion?
The Boomer here, Neovim 4.3 is a cave man old , switch to 5.0 nightly xD
You shouldn't use nightly builds with neovim imo
@@OggerFN I've been using master for 4-5 months whats the problem?
@@ishanagarwal475
You will probably run into bugs if you use the latest features
@@OggerFN I didn't.
@@ishanagarwal475
Good for you then.
I will wait until they declare a version stable
literally got nvim just for the python scripting interface
Can you explain a bit, how it is better than other editor for python scripts?
@@yoshikagekira7600 it's just the better text editor, i've also read that as an ide emacs would do the job even better, but don't quote me on that
To me personally the fact that NeoVim doesnt ask me to donate to africans sold me instantly, I hated the Vim message.
is that a bad thing to do ?
it does.
@@netbotcl586 why
@@favor94 idk; i just say that neovim also asks you to donate.
You can disable the Vim "splash screen" which shows the messages. Or change the source code. Vim is very easy to compile yourself.
Which Should You Use?
emacs
Bram Moolenaar passed away on Aug 3, 2023. Now Vim has been taken over by the contributors in the community who have a lot of love on him.
Idk if I like vim playing catch-up with nvim
Vim is supposed to be reliable. It's supposed to be the thing that saves your ass when you're in Ctrl+Alt+F2
tryina see why your computer won't boot
Vim logo seems to be inspired by Megaman X for some reason. NeoVim kinda looks like Android N logo
NeoVim is a fork of Vim. Essentially Bram Moolenaar did all the work for both and I see NeoVim as a bit of a backstab to Vim's creator. Also Bram pushes hard for people to donate to helping children in Uganda which makes him a bloody good guy in my opinion. Use Vim and do the right thing.
QUESTION: If the code for nvim is cleaner than vim, would it also mean that the execution of the nvim is also cleaner than vim ?
I had thought this might be so, so i used the UNIX time command to compare, and Neovim was more CPU intensive despite its code being so 'clean'. It used more memory too.
You didnt answer the most important question. Which one do you prefer to use? I just go with whatever is installed and dont care too much.
@8:12 There is so much competition between free software products, that none of the graphical environments offers non-overlay scrollbars anymore... ;>
The thing that I hate so far is that I cannot replicate really easy functionality in NeoVim that's present in Vim, for example --remote-silent. No, I'm not going to download a linux-only extension because I'm on Windows... Such things just make me afraid of using new tools, because they omit such simple things...
"My text editor has 'neo' in it, so I'm a hacker now!"
Nice profile pic, i love Omori!
@@ricardocesar8883 thanks, also same (lel)
Kenny what do you think of SpaceVim?
If you're interested in competition among editors, you should check out xi-editor and kakoune. Both of them bring big new ideas to the table.
I've tried getting into Kakoune, but the documentation is a bit painful. If there's one thing (Neo)Vim get(s) right, it's its massive amount of documentation.
Thaks for the advice.
I was an Atom code editor user...
But now that Microsoft k!led it, I am looking into something more stable.
I belive that VIM is the way foreward for me, thank You :)
@Mental Outlaw, could you do a video on image editors? I keep a windows laptop aside specifically for photoshop because of how inconvenient GIMP’s default settings are.
There is a patch called photogimp that give gimp the same key bindings and a layout that match more closely to photoshop
Personally, I've switched over from GIMP to Krita, and haven't looked back.
VI > VIM > VIMIM > VIMIMIM > VIMIMIMIM
Vi > Vi Improved > ViM Improved > VIMIM Improved
nvim broke your standard nomenclature.
Thanks a lot! it's so informative!
rip bram
I watched this cause my friend was like "stop using vim, use nvim" and I didn't knew the differences, well I still feel like the only difference is who made it
I am a happy emacs user. It took me time to understand but I can’t use vim or neovim anymore .
Emacs is just too damn good , it blows my mind when i want to do something special and i find it builtin 😀
Plus this neovim thing took forever, i am no longer excited .
Love your videos! Do you think you could start leaving at least another few seconds of silence after the end though so that if they're in a playlist (like Watch Later) the next video doesn't automatically play unexpectedly? 😅
If you are just learning vim motions and can't keep your hands on the homerow ...chances are that you just want an editor and find the trend around Vim/Neovim interesting. If that's the case, it frankly doesn't matter witch one you chose if you just want to learn and edit more code than configuration files. Just have fun at editing, and you'll find out later.
Neovim doesnt really work with non qwertz keyboards and AltGr
That's good to know. I use Dvorak.
I think you mean "Neovim" btw
@@giatu1 yes I made a typo
I really like your videos! :)
3:20 - don't go that road, man.
Thought you were a "vim elitist."
it's better to be a nvim commoner
“Spaghetti code”
Vim is bloat??
Spaghetti code does not necessarily mean bloat, it just means code that is so convoluted that it's hard for other developers to understand. Like not respecting encapsulation and accessing anything from anywhere will create a sort of web you wouldn't want to untangle unless you're the one who wrote it.
Vim = Modern China
Nvim = United States of America
Nice video, thanks! I never knew vim basically is a one man show. Just ran apt-get install neovim ;)
I use vim. It's already installed in most server.
You can run neovim in Vscode. That made me switch.
Which should you choose?
VS Code
re 8.37 I don't think forking with the intent of "competing" with the parent branch is particularly useful to users or developers unless it introduces features or develops on ideas that would disrupt user workflow.
Liking NVIM out of the box a little better. But if one must ssh into servers regularly, there is an incentive to be fluent with default VIM. Surprised this tradeoff didn't make the video.
Which one is more immune to CoC?
Also, vim/nvim VS kak/kakoune ?
you should look at video where the neovim core maintainer is criticizing this video, you have some malinformed and missing pieces in your video otherwise keep up the good work !!
What's the name lol
@@Jay-yr7ir th-cam.com/video/STP4T3rap_M/w-d-xo.html
People sure do like that closing vim joke don't they...
Vim works with lsp very well
Nvim so slowly with lsp
Vim is the best
I use nano... Vim is to advanced for what I use it for.
I still use VI because it comes with any linux distro and I can't install anything else on the thousands of changing VMs I work with on a daily basis.
Recently started with it but I'm enjoying neovim so far
TLDV: Use nvim, vim is the thing of the past.
This didn't mention a lot of differences at all
I prefer to use nano :D
Video on Sway when?