OURAGAN: France’s First Jet Fighter Was Designed In A Parisian Shed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2024
- The Mirage was a phenomenal export success for the French aviation industry, which, it must be remembered, was essentially destroyed during the Second World War. It also proved to be an effective, if not a perfect, combat aircraft.
But the Mirage was far from the first French-designed jet aircraft. That was the largely forgotten Ouragan, a product of the drive and vision of Marcel Dassault. Dassault survived his own mis-steps as Bloch before the war and then incarceration in the concentration camps. He emerged into a state-dominated aircraft industry that didn't want his ideas.
And yet despite the obstacles in his way he succeeded in producing his first jet and in doing so starting a dynasty that continues to this day. This video covers the design and development of the Ouragan. France's Hurricane.
Sources:
The best book on Dassault's first jet projects is Les chasseurs Dassault. OURAGANS, MYSTERES et SUPER-MYSTERES by Jean Cuny. Sadly it's out of print and in French only, but if you can get hold of a copy then I highly recommend it.
Two good summaries of the type and great photographs (both in French):
avions-de-la-guerre-d-algerie....
spotaero.blogspot.com/2015/11/...
It should not be forgotten that Dassault had to rebuild his company from scratch whereas companies like North American and Republic were thriving with large, experienced design teams, huge factories and cutting edge technologies.
And just like that, my day was improved. Thanks Pound!
Interesting Dassault history that I didn't know about. ~ Starting from scratch the Dassault Ouragan was decent enough and a good start for their future great fighters.
Not bad for a jet fighter designed from a ruined industry. These guys were courageous, patient and opinionated.
The Ouragan was the introduction into the jet age for the Salvadorean Air Force! they even carried shafrir IIs, making them one of the 2 operators in central america with air to air missiles. There was an attempt in 2001-2002 to restore 2 of them to flight condition for airshows and ceremonies, sadly, it was never completed
The Dassault Ouragan was the last and best fighter-bomber that the Salvadoran Air Force had. The Ouragans could not be restored due to complications, due to which in the civil war in 1982 A group of guerrilla sappers attacked the Ilopango air base, where the 18 Ouragans were destroyed in their hangars, being slight and irreparable damages, also highlighting that it was already an old fighter at that time due to the lack of parts for maintenance, nothing could be done for them, whereby The (FAS) decided to discharge them after the attack, where only souvenirs remained in the Salvadoran aviation museum, pieces, photographs and a model that followed in the country, etc...
@@verdaderopatriotista1824so sad. I would like to see one of these fly in modern day. One of my favorite jets in war thunder
Ouragan was first French aircraft in Israel, when others refused to sell aircraft it was an only option.
It was followed by Mystere IV, Super Mystere B2 and later of course the famous Mirage (till 1967 when France stopped supplying aircraft - otherwise their aircraft would be even more famous)
But then Israel might not have gotten the Phabulous Phantom and the unparalleled Eagle.
@@Mishn0 And not develop its own aircraft industry that started from producing Nesher, than Kfir and of course many other systems etc. So in some way it was good struggle 🙂
Damn, I love these. Such no-nonsense, practical evaluations, with a rich background of detail about WHY things happened rather a regurgitation of a Janes or Wiki entries.
The astonishing thing about the Ouragan is that they got it pretty much right from the start.
Yeah. He compared it to the MiG-9, but it missed all the teething problems of that bird.
It's amazing how many things started by two or three men in a shed.
The Greatest New Friday Tradition: Lunch break with a new "Not a Pound" video.
Fantastic as always!
A step from near death to the Mirage III, and that industry is still kicking today with products like the Rafale, also from Dassault. Not bad.
Very few pilots actually liked the Ouragan. It was a crude work horse - but the kind that works! IDF took what they could and made the most out of it. IDF appreciated the ruggedness of this plane and its simplicity made it easy and cheap to maintain. Also, it seemed to be able to return home with battle damage, which is important for a CAS platform.
I still have my 1/72 scale Heller kit of the Ouragan….was always intrigued by its shape.
Me too ! It stares at me from the shelf, together with a Heller DH Vampire, a KP (or was it PK) MiG-15 and a Matchbox Saab Tunnan.
It's not a bad kit. I built it in the Israeli shark mouth markings. My sources weren't very good though, so I got the camo color wrong. I used a dark sand instead of dark earth. I did get the greenish blue part pretty close. I hung a couple of 500 pound bombs from a Thunderbolt kit under the wings.
So do I! 😀 mine is Israeli and looks great with the yellow and black stripes of the Suez invasion.
@@ottovonbismarck2443I never saw that Matchbox SAAB Tunnan and it's the second time I read a reference about it. 🤔 Mine is from Heller.
@@duartesimoes508 ….with the Shark teeth? I did mine in aluminum French Air Force.
I admit to being ignorant of French fighter plane history beyond WWI, so this video is good info, and the footage is great. Ouragan was, if nothing else, at least a good-looking jet plane, and all fighter pilots place high value on looking good! Also, around 17:20 that jet appears to have the insignia of the Lafeyette Escadrille on the nose, which is super cool.
Another thanks from the States for highlighting another Gen 1 jet fighter. To me, the Ouragan comes across as a very good (under the circumstances) first try.
As an aside, this was the first time I have heard of the F-84 referred to as a 'jet-powered P-47'. I am looking forward to at least one video on this jet; the swept-wing models may require a separate installment.
Refering to the F-84 as a jet powered P-47 makes sense from the design philosophy at Republic.
@@mpetersen6 Very true; there's just not much of a resemblance, except for being big!
@@petesheppard1709
A local technical college had a F-84 on static display outside their Airframe & Engine school. The swept wing version. One of the administrators decided he didn't like it and called in a scrap company to chop it up and haul it away. Turned out the airframe was on loan from the Wisconsin Air National Guard and they were not pleased.
@@petesheppard1709straight development, f84 is literally the son of p47, An earlier project to re-engine a p47 with a turbine became the p47.
@@flavortown3781 So I'm learning. Thanks!
One of my fav aircraft to fly in War Thunder. I always love learning about the real thing. You make very enjoyable and informative videos, sir, thank you!
Much awaited, much appreciated looking forward to excellent insights as always from you.
Just finished a model of this aircraft in the markings of the "patrouile de France" aerobatic team.....their 1st jet
I thought their first jet was the Mystère IV-A
@@-kurow-7113 nope...it was this 1
Thank you, your content is as always insighful, comedic at times, and above all, new. I thought I knew everything until I started following your channel. Regards
You had me at 'Rolls-Royce Nene'.
Love the successfully met none of them quip......
Obscure cold war jets? Yes please!
Another beautiful video. Thank you for you hard work that you're doing for us, mate.
Another cracking video keep it up. How about an episode on the Avro Arrow. Now that was a plane very advanced for its time.
Great vid about a lesser known French jet of the Cold War
A few points of French Air Force structure : 1/2 means 1st squadron of the 2nd fighter wing so aircraft markings will start with 2- with the following 1st letter of the code being specific to the squadron
Aircrafts are « owned » by the wing not the squadron
Great insight. Enjoyed this video very much. Thank you.
Sweet a great video on early french jets.
Great work as alway Pound thank you.
Thank you.
Your uploads are excellent, and I look forward to each one.
Another great video on another under appreciated plane. Your dry phrasing, wit and humor over floweth!
Have really appreciated your videos in the past four months that I've been following you. They offer a great balance of insightful information that is precisely referenced, without many of the more tedious components of information. The Drachinifel of the air!
amazing, ive been looking for french aircraft clips, this is great
Great breakdown on an aircraft I knew very little about.
Another interesting and insightful video -thank you
As always, EXCELLENT!
Great video. I hope you will get to do the SAAB J29 Tunnan too eventually.
WOW! Your videos are of such high production excellence. Love your script.
Yes, another cracking video!
Very interesting review of a forgotten fighter. Thanks!
*Excellent!* Thank you.
Excellent presentation.
Been seeing this plane a lot recently. First in Brussels a couple weeks ago and now in Paris yesterday. Would love if you could make a video on the Mystere IV as well, it’s one of my all time favourite planes after I made it in SimplePlanes
Awesome, thanks!
Lovely. Thanks for your work on this; I know a lot of us look forward to each new upload and a nice bit of learning. I learned more about the Ouragan here than I ever knew before - such a little-discussed aeroplane. I like to think that Bleriot's ghost would have been happy with the (okay, mediocre) result of a shed-build from scratch like this.
Plus it didn't look at all bad and that's got to be a bonus for peacetime pilots in the Armee de l'Air.
Dassault put on his working pants and did an amazing job developing the Ouragan.
The things that can be accomplished when the government abandons you to your own ingenuity.
You always hear about how such and such was "designed in a shed" back in the day but i feel like that was more the norm than the exception at the time. That was the sort of building they used for that sort of thing, they were short on big high tech gleaming glass and brick research and development facilities full of huge staffs of draftsmen and designers, except maybe some of the larger companies in the US. Even the places where they were built could be described as large sheds. I also don't think it really means just a typical garden shed in most cases, just a relatively primitive structure with walls and a roof and some internal divisions into working areas, large doors, ideal for working on large machines and cheaper than a large building, or a complex of similar buildings of various sizes.
Very nice video about an aircraft that, for some reason, I always loved a lot. Just please strive to pronounce _Dassow_ instead of _Dassew!_ Actually, _Dassault_ was Marcel's brother _Nom de Guerre_ in the French Resistance; Marcel was emprisoned for refusing to collaborate with the Germans and was barely alive when he left Buchenwald. Little did he know that he would live until age 94 and build such wonderful aircraft... 😀
Pound are the onlyvideos i look for every day in my feed. YT seems to know this, they show up in the first 3 videos when new upload is posted😊
The French have a great feel for aircraft design…I am fluent in French but only when discussing aircraft parts.
The successor to the Ouragan should've been called the Uruk-Hai.
As a solidworks user, this videos got me stoked👍
excellent video
Well - they got some real use out of it - which is more than you can say for a lot of other aircraft designs.
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Interesting topic that has been under-represented by other channels. But important piece of the puzzle of how we ended up where we are today.
Greg's airplanes ,Ed Nash and this guy!
Very good work overall, but one thing made it almost grating to listen to - Dassault is properly pronounced 'dah-so', NOT 'dah-sue'.
At time 13:40 we are told that because the plane lacked any power assistance for the control surfaces the controls became very heavy at high speeds. (This is of course normal for unpowered controls). Then a minute later we are told the elevator was fitted with a system that made the stick progressively heavier as the speed increased. This doesn’t seem to make sense in light of the previous statement. Stick force gradient can become too light for reasons such as increasing AOA or aft CG, but unpowered controls getting lighter purely due to increasing airspeed doesn’t sound right.
If the elevator stick forces were somehow so light at high speed that overcontrol was hard to avoid, then adding resistance would have made the airplane easier to control for max performance, not harder. The pilot would have an easier time determining how hard to pull without pulling too far. Unless the system was grossly dysfunctional it would not prevent the pilot from achieving max performance, or intentionally exceeding a limit just by pulling even harder.
The point here is that if this system was actually necessary to prevent unintentional overstress that does not mean it would prevent intentional overstress by the pilot. I am familiar with servo tabs, spring tabs, and control tabs that reduce stick forces due to high airspeed, and with bobweights that increase stick force required as G increases, but not with a system that somehow adds resistance to unpowered flight controls based on airspeed. Can anyone explain how this worked?
I just happened to be the 207th guy to push the like button.
I'm pretty proud of myself.
Hell yahh !!!
You’ve seen limiting systems before, perhaps not with roll, but certainly with pitch. The Have Donut archival film discusses the MiG-21’s pitch limiting system working at both high speeds and low altitudes. Same thing here, though the roll limiter is uncommon, it’s not unheard of.
great upload. I'd love to see an upload on the philosophy behind using dated prop aircraft post war running into the 60s and 70s. Something like the skyraider.
Or in keeping with this channel's theme, What was the final air to air prop fight?
Not a Pound for Air to Ground = don’t even mention the Skyraider !!
The correct pronuncoation of his name is Dasso...not Dassu....it might be spelled Dassault but in french when the letters "A and "U" are placed together its pronouced as "O" not "U" and in the case of this name the L and T are silent.
@@paulwoodman5131th-cam.com/video/8WOdS1FoL3M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=P04l6HZCBw64guMD
In the beginning you mention the D.520, while showing and not mentioning the even more advanced MB-151 (MB= Marcel Bloch)
Great stuff. Really enjoy the presentations on some of these lesser known aircraft.
Also, it's crazy how important only a few years could be in the dawn of the jet age.
Considering its beginnings and funding from the US, it did get the French into the jet business although at a very basic level. You could argue that France remained at a basic level as historically their aircraft primarily sell to third world countries. Even the Rafale only sold after the Typhoon production line was running down and most countries with the money were buying the F-35A / B.
Good damage resistance vs those cannon hits and a forced landing.
I feel like all aircraft operate within a narrow window of performance. Just, windows are all shaped different, and some aircraft can open their window better than others.
So why was there so much reticence in accepting Bloch back to manufacturing? It wasn't clear.
Probably because he was seen as an abominable capitalist whereas all the other constructors were national companies. His pre-war company had already been nationalized in the 1936-40 period. France has always had a complicated history with entrepreneurship…
@@romainlerallut1409 AIUI, in the turmoil after the horrific blood-letting of WWI, Marxists gained great influence in France, causing all sorts of problems, especially in military procurement.
Two reasons come to mind, he was Jewish and he refused to collaborate with the Nazis and that made the rest of the French aviation companies look bad and they resented it. His refusal to collaborate is what got him sent to Dachau.
@@Mishn0 Thanks; I wondered about the collab angle.
Great video not only about this particular plane but the french military aircraft industry and its most influencial designer Marcel Bloch/Dassault. Btw cudos to the narrator for his french pronounciation.
What ?
It's the weirdest "Dassault" i've ever heard.
The pic at 20:50 is an F-84F, not an F-84G(although France used both).
please cover the story of the F-14 and the pavavia tornado / tornado ADV
MD450 1949-- Mystère II 1950 -- Mystère IV 1952 -- Super Mystère (B1) B2 1956.... A long familly. Mirage III was a redesign of the MD550 in 1956.... They were a lot of evolutions during the 50's
France mentionned 🇫🇷
D520 was the best in service. but the best was the arsenault VG33 series, far exceeding the dewoitines in 1940
FYI, Dassault is pronounced "Dass - oh", rather than "Dass-oo". Great video - thanks!
Am I correct thinking about a MIG-15 when I see the Ouragan ?
aerodynamically suspect... lol i love it
For a country that had been almost destroyed by 4 years of occupation, a "talentless" engineer and an industry that was starting from scratch, I think it's not bad at all.
When we see that the USA with the most expensive weapons program in humanity came out with the Fail-35, if Dassault had the same resources we would already be at the X-Wings.
interesting video.
little tip: Marcel Dassault - try to pronounce it as "DASSO" :)
further tip - when I want to check how to pronounce words in a foreign language - I use google translate which a sound icon showing you the prononciation.
I like the pace of your video -- I capture evrything first time - this is perfect for my foreign ears.
I seem to remember the Zero's control system employing a "stretching" control system that used elastic pull to impact the stick as well as a safety plus due to g limiting effect for air frame safety.
I loved the line about since the jet was sold to Israel it would be used for .... fighting.... yeah, that is what it was made for.
What does "Not A Pound For Air To Ground" mean?
The history of french aircraft industry in and after WW2 is a bit different, an best explained in a script "Paperclip French Style" by Pierre Trichet, ex ONERA president. French were working together with germans while the war. And so they did afterwards, in engine- and airplane development.
Britain also only gave Frank Whittle a shed, too.
Everything good Britain ever did technical, starts in a shed
No wind tunnel? I'm impressed that it worked at all, nevermind reasonably well.
Lots of aircraft were designed with mk1 eyeball gut feeling and math
The first french wind tunnel was built by Gustave Eiffel in 1909...and a improved one in 1912 and still exists today...
Don't imagine that Dassault designed its planes without a wind tunnel...
@@leneanderthalien did you watch the video?
@@nickthompson9697 what video speaker say and reality, is different
Class system in Britain - the RAF had to fight to get Grammar School Corporal and Sergeant middle and working class, much more capable, pilots to save Britain in August 1940. Frank Whittle, and myself cold war, had the same English establishment treatment.
Da-soh not Da-soo - au gives an oh sound, the lt is silent.
Marcel "Dassoo"?
It should be Dassault.
Dasso is the correct pronouciation@@shaider1982
Dassault was the nom de guerre of Marcel Bloch's brother, General Paul Bloch.
17:32 12th wing 1st squadron?? In French Escadre = wing
There was a Documentary series called Wings over the World that looked at the Aircraft manufacturers and Specific Designers they covered Dassault to the 1980s simply put everybody has to walk before they can run dassaults Mirage IIIs in IDF hands were world Beaters and in 67 made the American public go how does the IDF do so much with so little vs the American Experience in 67 Vietnam so the walk the Ouragan did was necessary
Protip: I always thought "OURAGAN" was an onomatopoeic of what a cat made coughing up a hairball.
Hmm. The MiG15 also used the Nene.
We basically gave the Nene away, there's only a handful of detail differences between the UK Nene and the USSR copy. The Soviets couldn't believe their luck that we just gave it away.😂
@@robertwilloughby8050 Most post-war British governments have acted against the interests of British people and industry.
I always called it Da-assault. As many, mon amis.
That's basically where it comes from though - his brother used the name "Charsasso" as his alias when he was working for the French Resistance during the war, which was a play on 'char d'assaut' - "assault tank".
Not sure why video pronounces it as dassoo. My understanding of French was that "-au" is a short 'o' as in english 'rose', and the -lt is essentially silent, so it should be 'dasso', same as how Renault is closer to 'reno' not 'renoo'.
It’s either “mon ami” or “mes amis”, monsieur.
Its Dasso..not Dassu
Designed without a wind tunnel?
"Darker reason"?
Interesting and thanks for the info.
But you did make another pronunciation mistake here. "Dassault" is NOT pronounced "Da-soo". It's "Da-soe" (rhymes with "toe").
Why was Dassault viewed with suspicion?
I suppose being Jewish didn't help?
Why does it look like someome crossbread an F-84J and a MiG-15
How come the French didn't have a huge war debt like the British had? And how come the US was subsidising their aerospace industry too?
Um... stage right.
I'm so sorry France but I cannot pronounce it as Dasoo lol