Cement also acks like a sponge. It soaks up water and then releases it into the air. Water pressure in concrete is called hydrostatic pressure. They have little instruments that can measure the amount of water in the concrete to see the amount of moisture saturation. Moisture can pop coatings off the floor. I glued plastic wrap (so there's no holes) on a cement basement.
I built my bardo last year and have ZERO water. We put the insulation barrier between the sheet metal and metal beams. In other words my sheet metal is screwed through rolls of insulation that has plastic on each side of the insulation; then screw to the steel beams. I have no sheet metal touching the framing, so no sweat transfer. Then, the living area is framed about 4” away from the siding because of the steel beams. This allowed us to have a natural air gap. We installed regular insulation between the 2x4 framing, so we have double insulation. One on the outside of the building and one on the inside. I wish I could attach a picture. It’s brilliant the way the contractor buttoned up my bardo.
Would you mind sharing the name of your contractor? This is precisely what I want to do, but I'm having a hard to finding a contractor who will do this. Thanks.
U just can’t see it because it’s behind the plastic Iv worked on metal building a lot that insulation helps but still sweats the ideal is it holds it there until it drys out. But on a wood frame building like his the purlins can still mold release spores.
You have no air gap between the metal siding and the heated building. You will be fighting moisture issues forever. The metal will condensate and with no airflow it will not dry properly. To prevent this, install 1x4's on the framed walls and then install the siding onto the 1x4's. the way you have it, the metal is directly on the Tyvek, no air gap between them with no place for moisture to go.
Jack is correct . not trying to cause any grief but (I am 40 years commercial construction as carpenter)in this video it looks like the walls are furred out with 2x4 on studs then tyvec ,then metal , as you say if tyvec had been installed on framing ,not on 2x4 furring, you would have your air space and a channel for moisture to travel, i think the proper way now to eliminate the problem will be to take out the insulation ,remove tyvec and reinstall with tyvec on interior side of 2x4 furring ,taping all seams and acoustic sealant to floor .Moisture is your enemy ,mold will make you very ill and destroy your home ,like i say just trying to help not crapping on anyone's parade , i love your channel and we all have lots to learn forever. not a massive job if you do it in smaller sections. this is just my opinion .
I just found your channel and love how real yall are. As a carpenter and owner of a small constructions company, also a building science nerd 🤓,an air gap is the absolute fool proof way to allow the building to dry out. Another suggestion would be to get more insulation on the exterior walls between living area and the siding(i.e., add additional strips to your studs,for thicker insulation, to slow the air changes even more. Look into rockwool insulation. Unlike fiberglass,which will absorb water and lose its "r" value, rockwool repels water and has more "r" value per inch. Depending on your climate, more insulation may be necessary than here in sunny fl. to stop condensation. If yall have any more questions or concerns, I'd be happy to help you all I can. A mentor/building scientist joseph lstiburek has a ton of information on this subject. Good luck, love the channel...ALSO, if the slab doesnt have a moisture barrier under it, you will want to apply a liquid barrier before you install flooring.
@@LaidBackLiving there's some debate about rockwool vs air quality, you may want to look at wool insulation. Premium price, but you can mix and match some insulation materials. The paper based insulation is s also great (cellulose) but you need to familiarize with each insulation type. Wool is extremely specifically well adapted to the condensation issue. Rockwool comes in second but I would consider it more for vented attics and garages. That said, fiberglass insulation is bottom tier insulation and with a very low real scenario insulation value. Wool cellulose and mineral wool score highest, wool requires more support when applied as it slumps. Cellulose can slump and mash together under damp pressure but also seals a little under the right conditions, which can be a positive or negative depending on where it's at. There's the super expensive denim insulation, but it's packed tight, loses it's fluff, very moisture sensitive, so still excellent for interior privacy walls if you're framing in posts and drywall partitions. All together, my favorites are wool denim and cellulose, wool and cellulose are good for exterior walls, denim isn't, rockwool has some nasty stuff in it, and never forget. All tech is graveyard tech.
The vapour barrier must always go on the inside warm side. This is true for wooden buildings as well. Poly plastic is a vapour barrier, it goes on the inside, & must be sealed with tape or acoustic sealant, to prevent moist air from penetrating the wall & reaching cold exterior. Tyvek is not a vapour barrier, it goes on the exterior cold side, where it can release any moisture that forms on the cold side of a wall. The problem with steel skinned buildings is that the steel skin acts like a vapour barrier, and so, the installation and sealing of a poly vapour barrier on the inside is critical. The ideal time to insulate and vapour barrier a steel building is in cool/cold weather, before the interior is heated. If you heat the building in cold weather, before you insulate & poly vapour barrier, you’ll be in the cycle you described.
Brother, think about installing a heat shield between the woodstove and the wall behind it. Exposing the stud work to direct even just low heat temperatures will eventually lower the kindling temperature of the wood. It helps reduce the risk of structural fire down the road. Thanks for the advice about trapped moisture in steel buildings.
My pole barn had the same problem with condensation and it raining inside. My entire pole barn is wrapped with a house wrap so I didn't understand where the moisture was coming from. I asked a contractor friend about it, he told me that I wrapped the building when the gravel floor was wet and the moisture was coming out of the ground. After the ground dries out the rain inside the shop should stop. Sure enough the moisture and rain inside my pole barn on the warmer days has stopped. I don't remember when you poured the concrete foundation but concrete has a lot of water in it that has to evaporate out so you might have been getting the last little bit of moisture out of your concrete floor. :)
Another way for moisture to get into the walls and condense is through any electrical outlets or light switch boxes. If you have any installed on the outside walls you can use Great Stuff foam around and behind the boxes to seal and prevent moisture from forming inside the walls..
You mention the cost of the spray foam as being too expensive, but what have you spent on batting, tyvek, plastic, dehumidifying, wood stove, aggravation, time, and the possibility that still exists for mold growth? I hope I'm wrong, but I think your moisture issues are still going to be a problem.
I am on a crew at times that builds Metallic brand commercial buildings. There is no vapor barrier on the outside. Not on the roof or sidewalls. But vapor barrier the inside. Not a membrane but a barrier. 10 mil poly perforated with liner panel screws with no rubber washers. This way any vapor escapes from hot to cold though the interion screws through an R-48 equivalent fiberglass metal cavity insulation to the outside. During building I have witnessed pooled rain, snowpack and ice develop on the floor. After enclosure and heating, I have seen all of that dry out and escape overnight. It really works well. All that vapor escaped though small, hidden closure gaps and j trim gaps on the roof and walls. All specifically engineered to allow rapid evacuation of moisture. I would build anything like this now unless it has cornice and ridge roof venting. It is a good lesson in vapor control. Very economical without resorting to the expense and problems of spray foam. Never try too hard. Just understand the mechanics of vapor control and apply it to construction details. Always provide a plan for airflow to the outside. To make a structure vapor-tight but not airtight. Because airtight structures will rot and rust everything vulnerable on the inside unless active measures are emplaced. Why deal with that expense. When passive control is possible.
It's interesting the "Marshal Remodel" just posted a video with a huge moisture issue in their walls. Same type of metal building, I figured it was an issue with the metal siding and tyvek issue as well as what seams to be issues with their spray foam insulation. Glad you got it all figured out!
We built a 60' x 60' metal building, half is living quarters and half is garage and shop. We decided to put the spray foam in and delay some other aspects of the building until later due to money concerns. No doubt the ONLY way to go.
So a cheep to use but don't know the cost to install is a heat recovery system. It draws fresh air which then passes through a heat exchanger and is exhausted into the house. The house air is drawn into the other side of the heat exchanger, gives up its heat to the incoming air and is then exhausted to the outside. I do know that this costs peanuts to run as it is basically just a fan that runs. No fancy electrics or other devices needed, just a simple fan. Because the house air is constantly being exhausted you don't get any build up of moisture. Its been proven over here in the European cold damp air. Have a search online and you will find many examples of this system. Just a thought
Good discussion. It’s good to understand the building science and there are many ways to “fix” any issue. I would have probably used spray foam ( closed cell ) and that would have worked good. But, it’s also the most expensive option. When I foamed The stone house, I instantly saw a HUGE savings in heating costs.. and my 8k in spray foam is probably going to pay for itself after 5 years.
Great work!!! I agree that spray foam is expensive but man its nice. I had my building done and it stays about 50 without being heated. Glad you guys can now move on from the moisture issue.
You will continue to encounter condensation in these types of buildings if they are not flash insulated with CLOSED CELL SPRAY FOAM on every piece of exposed metal in the wall system. Vapor barriers are not completly impervious because of all the holes you have to put in them to attach them to the structure.
@@cbriangilbert1978 how do you replace a piece of metal like a rock thrown into it, when closed cell has bonded to it? (Other than a saw and a huge mess)
Running dehumidifiers for 2 years is the best thing in a new house. Fabulous presentation for the practical approach. I have seen sweating and moisture problems even when spray foam was applied. You did better than professional builders
I watched your blog here and I deal with this issue of condensation a lot. The coating I apply is a “thermal break” when you apply this on steel it does not allow cold/warm to meet therefore it’s cannot form moisture which therefore cannot corrode. In colder climates it also will prevent ice damns because snow won’t stick to the outer roof..no energy getting through for it to melt. I have applied to many different metal buildings over the last 20 years with zero failure. We are not an insulation like polyurethane-we are just a “thermal break” we are currently testing with an Engineering firm to show how effective we are in many applications…this been one of them, although we already know how it works-industries want data…Hope everything you have done has worked.
@@jamieklok3902 That is only true if you have a way for the air to escape to the outside. ie, vented airway. Moisture can not get trapped in closed cell foam. You do NOT want an air space that is not vented. That is why they put the insulation directly on the walls. If the roof isn't vented then you still put the insulation directly on the metal and use either an hvac system or dehumidifier to control the moisture.
For years I have heard storys about the moisture issues related to quonset huts. My friend owns an old fashioned one that he uses as an out-building. He complains about the thing being oppressively hot in the summertime (in Michigan) and also he complains about his tools rusting inside it. Lets go a step further and incorporate the idea of living in a quonset hut. In a way you would be living in a metal tank. It is sealed up. Moisture is generated from many sources. It is expelled from you and your family and pets breathing and perspiring. There is showering moisture is in the air. There is moisture is generated from drying dishes in the dish rack. One byproduct of a flame is water so when you use your gas cooktop or oven, moisture is generated. Plus the moisture from boiling water is generated, or other cooking such as a casserole or beef roast cooking. you come in from the rain or snow your clothes need to dry. So that adds to the moisture in the inside air. And to top it off there is the condensation issue related to the metal. If the weather outside the metal goes below the dew point, water condenses on both the inside and outside surfaces of the metal. Concrete can sweat moisture too because its porous. So living in one would be a tough nut to crack. I saw many quonset huts in Iraq but they had air conditioners pulling moisture out of them as the hot air was cooled. But they never shut off. Those ones had blown insulation on the inside surfaces of the metal. The foam needs to be a specific type to meet code requirements in the USA. And it should be intumescent too. Plug this into google earth to view a semi quonset hut style roof where no people live: 43°42'16.98"N, 85°28'21.43"W If the wall shown were modified with a side wall made of wood and wrapped with Tyvek, I think the moisture would have a possibility of leaving the building. But there needs to be adequate square footage of flat surface to keep up with what your household generates. Think about this: On a rainy or humid day the inside of our stick-built house feels humid.
I wouldn't use spray foam, I'd use fiberglass just like he did. It would be wise to put a small and I mean small airgap between the metal and moisture barrier. Something like a shim size. They sell a very large open cell brillo pad looking strip you can put at the very bottom to keep insects from getting in.
One way to ensure that this moisture problem does not come back is with ceiling ventilation such as the oscillating ones that sit outside. They pull moisture as well. Great job guys looks like you tackled the problem!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Absolutely amazing! You are a very intelligent and well spoken young man. I did not hear you say my least favorite word in the English language even once. What is that word? Uh, ah, um...
We don't have a barn insulated living space, but our animal barn was in a low area so we had to put in ventilation fans on timers to keep the barn from raining inside it.
I have heard so many stories about issues with condensation inside sprayfoam and you can't do anything about it so I'm not sure that spray foam would have prevented your issues...
I'm about ready to start building my post frame home with dry set brackets on top of ICF. Then I'm going to install SIP's on the outside walls and roof. Everything will be wood except for the trusses. I will probably make them out of metal because I want a vaulted ceiling. The wood floor inside the home will be just above grade but will have a 4' crawl space underneath the floor trusses. This makes the plumbing and electrical easy to run and fix if there is ever an issue. It's also easier on the feet. I'm also going to run both a wood burning stove but will also be running hydronic radiant floor heat. I'm thinking my place will be 40 x 64 with a 16' covered patio in sections. I'm also thinking of building two dormers that are proud of the side of the building and probably extend past the covered patio on one side of the structure. I haven't moved on it yet due to lumber prices and all the rest of the building materials that are inflated right now. Plus this global financial system called the central banks that are controlled by the cartel. That crap needs to be corrected first. I'll be building it all my myself and only using my own hands except for concrete days. I'm not sure where to get the laminated 2x6 post or the best price on metal roofing. I'm located in North Western Washington State if someone can help me locate a good suppler.
I really want to use closed cell foam for my future shop, but I've read comments where people say that when (not if) you get a leak in your metal building, you'll never find the leak, because the foam is obscuring it. I suppose as long as you keep up with the maintenance of your roof in particular (checking for missing/broken screws and rubber gaskets) that it should be a non-issue.
Closed cell foam is a form of a water barrier so you don’t need to wrap if you are using the closed cell and vice versa. One has to be applied to block water from entering, the only problems you may have with closed cell is if you cut sheets of styrofoam and then try to use the closed cell in the cracks, that is looking for trouble. If you use closed cell foam, don’t mix it with another method. It’s very expensive but worth it and has great R- Value
Did you insulate your slab? Also, does it have a sheet of poly in it? If not, keep that dehumidifier running forever, and also keep a very close eye on the base plates of your 1F walls. :-)
6mil Poly vap barrier and a proper install with acoustic sealant and tuck tape would have solved the issue, I hate to say it but if you due things half way your going to have issues. The thin plastic is a waste of time and money. some things you have to do 100% others you can skip on.
First of all, building science is building science Instead of an air barrier you should have used an air vapour barrier like 3m 3015 .. this would allow the travelling of air to exhaust out and vapour and moisture to be blocked from coming in Next is continuous insulation on the outside of your framing in the form of a rigid insulation or a Rockwool.. then you should have had a drainage plane with air space the same way you do with brick on a wall .. 3/4” Furred out wall would have solved all your issues as well. The exterior finish is not to blame for your problem execution of the proper building science on the given application is. Follow this steps on your next build and you will have zero problems .. hot or cold weather also 30% more efficient than your current set up
I'd imagine in the high desert this wouldn't be a problem. Which is why I'm considering a low-cost / low-profile barndominum home to serve as a shelter for an RV base with adjacent loft accommodation and studio space for mobile living.
@@virginiajorda4226 High desert or valley? It 'is' muggier this season due to having more water than the previous 2 monsoons combined this year. Seemed drier around Verde Valley or Winslow. (There's also 'garage homes' that I'm looking into - the terms seem a bit interchangeable). Water mitigation doesn't seem as bad as getting approvals for septic tanks at the moment. In fact, condensation can be routed to a cistern system ideally.
Good info to know. Just living creates a lot of moisture. Looks good for wall finish, now. The tighter the building, the more critical a ventilation system. butyI calking would go along way to sealing the vapour barrier. was thinking horizontal steel, on wood studs, with foam standoff. Closed cell foam spray the existing foam standoff strip top to bottom. Fiberglass pink to follow. I wonder if the expanding foam would bow the steel? Glue the building together with the stuff. Nice vid, very close to what I have in mind.🇨🇦
Great job! You did awesome working through that and figuring it out. peace Question: There is protection between the wood stove and the plastic wall, right?
We finished off a small metal shed, however the wood lumber used in building the shed was pressure treated. We insulated like you did and put up a thin paneling, but there was an odor we couldn't get rid of. After about 9 months we ended up tearing down the paneling and realized the odor was from the treated lumber (this was a pre-built shed). We noticed there was growth of either mold or mildew starting on the paneling. Just an FYI for anyone out there who may want to do what we wanted to do with the shed. I agree the spray foam insulation is the best alternative if you can afford it.
Spray foam would have solved your problem I’ve been doing metal siding / roofs on commercial and residential properties for 5 years we use densglass then Tyvek on the outside and spray foam on the inside
I wouldn't sheet the interior walls until your moisture/vapor 'fix' is a 100% certain. I have doubts that the interior visqueen sheet will do the job entirely. Also during the cooling season moisture drive works in reverse of the heating season. In that scenario moisture could condensate on the insulation side of the visqueen. There are a couple sure cures, but nothing you'll like hearing at this point.
@@johnnyboy1543 Closed cell PU applied directly to the the interior surface of the metal skin, with no gaps. PU thickness application needs to have enough 'R' value to push the dew point away from the interior metal surfaces. Interior wall/clg finishes need to be permeable enough to prevent trapped moisture vapor.
The entire problem is that there is a temperature difference on the two sides of the metal. The warm side of the metal will always sweat. Like a glass of ice water on a hot day. Spray foam insulation on the inside is your best option. Bat insulation with a vapor barrier will not work.
Maybe you should have chosen Rockwool instead. Glasswool loves water and is hard to dry. I wouldn't want foam insulation in my house. It's very toxic in a fire, and you can forget all about making it out of the building, before you pass out from the fumes. Luckily it's not legal to use in my country.
“Flash spray” a 1/2inch to 1/4inch with “Closed cell” spray foam insulation, then re-install your bat insulation. A flash spray is a way cheaper option and Will completely stop the metal from sweating and will give your entire building an airtight seal. I’ve sprayed thousands of metal buildings and this is definitely the cheapest and best option !
The only solution to future condensation is exterior insulation Outward of your metal exterior.... or an air gap (called a rainsceen ) between your metal and your wrap and insulation. I also recommend you get an ERV . Drafting appliances and hood vents and fans SUCK on a house, moisture will be in the outside air that is replacing the exhausted air, this will come in through gaps and cracks... air infiltration is the other way moisture gets in the walls when it's not moisture drive from humid air going to the drying surface(cold metal , below the dew point temperature) A whole house dehumidifier that is plumbed to a drain and constant air movement will always help. The warmer your inside air is the more moisture it can hold (saturation) letting the inside cool down forces the moisture to drop out of the air. It's dropping out of the air when it his the cold metal. Spray foam will fix this.. If done right. Careful with the spray foam if the chemistry is off the VOCs will be so bad your home will be unliviable, wich the HRV/ERV can help mitigate.
In a quonset hut or a dome (like I lived in for 8 years), there must be allowance in one or more high spots, to vent the inside air/moisture - out. Ideally one would have a fan vent set up, with a switch down below. The vented air, will drive out moist air really well, especially if you have a wood stove. Using a propane stove in such a space is assee-versee. Now if you live in a giant space, (I lived in 17 foot dome) one must think about insulation and or vapor barrier. I know nothing about this. The dome had a simple velcro patch at the peak. When it got moist inside, I raised the corners, and with the wood stove going, moisture remained perfect. All yurts have the center ring, that contains a small windows that you can open- for example after one showers or cooks.
Did you put insulation and a vapor barrier under your slab? Did you insulate the outside of the building? I know from experience it's important for the slab iif there's a high water table or just an area that doesn't dry well.
If you did not put a vapor barrier UNDER the concrete floor you will ALWAYS have moisture trapped in your building. Moisture is always wicking/evaporating up out of the ground into the air. Take a piece of plastic like a shower curtain and duct tape it to the floor, pull it up a day or two later and see if it isn't wet under it. If it is you could try grinding the floor and applying a sealer, but it may just peel off. Concrete is NOT waterproof, that is why they put liners in (inground) swimming pools. Art from Ohio
Stucco or pus cement on it with a roller used for painting But fris put the black plastic On one side it has glue and on the other side it has black plastic, then you put the stucco or cement on the outside.
The moment you try to stop a building breathing using an impermeable membrane you will always have problems no matter what you do. The only place you can get away with metal is on the roof as long as the Ridge cap allows at least some air to escape and take the moisture with it. Acrylic paint is a moisture barrier most people don't think about. Major cause of mildew, damp rot. Never use a plastic vapour barrier anywhere no matter what the building codes tell you. They are the kiss of death to any timber framing, even if you use weather board. Glass fibre causes condensation ! It's glass, just like that window glass you get condensation on. When it gets cold it sweats. when it gets wet, no insulation value anymore. Glass insulation is only going to work in ceiling cavities where the heat in the roof keeps it dry. Trap it in a wall and it fails.
There are millions of houses with fiberglass insulation in the walls. In fact, most houses have it. The way to properly insulate a wall is to stop the heated and cooled air from inside the house from entering into the cavity of the walls (and the best method is sheet rock and paint) and then allow the wall to breath to the outside by not putting any kind of barrier on the outside of the wall (a breathable vapor barrier is ok). It may also be a good idea to put vertical firring strips between the sheathing of the outside wall and any siding to allow an air gap to help the wall dry out if any moisture occurs on the outside of the wall under the siding.
I just constructed a 40x64 shop. Stick built with metal siding both inside and out. So the layers starting from the outside are: Metal, Tyvek, 2 inch spray foam, batting, Poly, metal. I just pulled a piece to do some plumbing and the spray foam is dripping like a river behind it . Not sure why but hopefully it doesn’t cause mold onto the batting over time
Burning most fuel produces water, carbon/hydrogen chains -> H20 and CO2. Some CO if it doesn't completely burn. So oil, propane, NG, gasoline, kerosene, etc will all dump huge amounts of water into the space if not vented. I recently added a heater to my shed and it looked like the easiest method would be to use those ventless propane heaters, but after I realized how much water they add, I got a diesel heater that is vented. They only place those ventless are appropriate is with another heater that is vented to make up for the moisture it pulls from the space.
My building was first insulated with sheet type insulation, low value, then inside about 1 ft in where the runs and poles were I had highest r value installed. Then framework was inside runs and sheetrock attached to that. So of course there was an air pocket in between. No moisture since 2013. Thankful for warm/cool home with high end upgrades for about $50K. 22x33. Still thankful✌❤
@@LaidBackLiving Understandable but if you had the choice would you have put out the extra money to do it . It looks like the way you done it definitely costed more and made a lot more work in the out come with a lot more stress. Best your heart ❤
This is nonsense! I have lived in, indeed I am living in a metal clad building. As a now retired builder I have been involved in the construction of many more. I live in a state (Victoria, Australia) that has weather and temperature extremes - from zero to 40*c plus and on some days high humidity. It’s so simple: from outside to in, metal cladding, a moisture barrier wrap, insulated in the wall frame, drywall or ply lining. That’s it. It’s extremely important that the building is AIR TIGHT. Double glazing and cross ventilation as well. Also, insulate the roof and underfloor. I have a split system for cooling and heating plus I run a wood stove on chilly evenings. Never any moisture on inside glass ever or anywhere else either. My advice: start again… ✌️🇦🇺
Be leary of this advice and heed the video. As an architect we know modern buildings breathe--they don't block moisture instead tyvek/moisture barriers break down water into their smallest constituents so that moisture DOES actually enter your wall assembly but DOES NOT form into dew drops but simply passes through; because water will destroy even metal over time. But, more important!, if your body sweat and everyday moisture can't escape--you can make a perfect breeding ground for mold, spores, and bacteria--which will become airborne. Don't take my word for it, lookup the sad history of Legionnaires Disease and Pontiac Fever Pneumonia from poor building ventilation. I recommend roof ridge vents, dehumidifiers, and always having a quality air monitor on at all times if you're going to build and live in metal buildings or barndominiums. You'll need an extra smart-home (monitors, data producing technology) to stay on top of your health. Good luck everyone.
@@zarazalazar not entirely correct. I don’t where in the world you practice as an architect. What I described was normal building practice in temperate areas of Australia with variations due to climate extremes in the hotter parts of the continent. Any self respecting architect will tell you that an efficient building in cooler climates is an airtight building properly ventilated and to eliminate condensation. Sealing the interior of a building with polythene as shown in the video is guaranteed to introduce buckets of moisture. As I said before my comments regarding metal cladding were based on actualities not theory…
If you have 1 pin hole and a mean 1 pin hole anywhere in that plastic water will be in your walls. Cut and see. I promise you will have some in the years to come. You should not have put plastic for sure. Also get rid of that cheap pink stuff. Not trying to piss you off. Just trying to help. i was there and did the same and payed the price. I got rid of the plastic and put super good insulation and now have no problems 5 years later. No plastic lets it dry from the inside and good insulation stops the sweating. That pink stuff is made out of glass and you know what happens when you take a glass of water out side. The glass sweats. Try the same thing with a foam cup. No sweating.
Oh man that sucks. Hopefully all that work will pay off and it stays dry. I love that wood stove! That’s a beast!!!❤️ We’re going through draft issues. Gotta love winter time and finding out what worked and what needs work ;) Love your progress guys, keep it up!
EL WRONGO DUDE-O.....spray foam insulation traps water against whatever surface it’s near. I’ve torn apart (2) spray-foam insulation jobs and had to completely replace the entire floor systems in each. Metal always condensates
"DuPont™ Tyvek® weather barriers have a unique structure, with millions of extremely fine pores that resist bulk water and air penetration, but allow water vapor to pass through and escape the building."
Fresh concrete slab is also full of water
omg, I never even thought of that....but yes, the water from the cement would have to go someplace..
Cement also acks like a sponge. It soaks up water and then releases it into the air. Water pressure in concrete is called hydrostatic pressure. They have little instruments that can measure the amount of water in the concrete to see the amount of moisture saturation. Moisture can pop coatings off the floor. I glued plastic wrap (so there's no holes) on a cement basement.
Drywall too is mostly water; that's why it has a 1hr fire rating. Good point.
Can you seal it with a clear coat paint or urethane?
And of course not to forget the moisture in your construction wood.
Thank you for your very clear explanation of the moisture problem👍
I built my bardo last year and have ZERO water. We put the insulation barrier between the sheet metal and metal beams. In other words my sheet metal is screwed through rolls of insulation that has plastic on each side of the insulation; then screw to the steel beams. I have no sheet metal touching the framing, so no sweat transfer. Then, the living area is framed about 4” away from the siding because of the steel beams. This allowed us to have a natural air gap. We installed regular insulation between the 2x4 framing, so we have double insulation. One on the outside of the building and one on the inside. I wish I could attach a picture. It’s brilliant the way the contractor buttoned up my bardo.
Nice job.
I need more info on this?! Please
@palipali4264hmmm good point? Scary
Would you mind sharing the name of your contractor? This is precisely what I want to do, but I'm having a hard to finding a contractor who will do this. Thanks.
U just can’t see it because it’s behind the plastic Iv worked on metal building a lot that insulation helps but still sweats the ideal is it holds it there until it drys out. But on a wood frame building like his the purlins can still mold release spores.
You have no air gap between the metal siding and the heated building. You will be fighting moisture issues forever. The metal will condensate and with no airflow it will not dry properly. To prevent this, install 1x4's on the framed walls and then install the siding onto the 1x4's. the way you have it, the metal is directly on the Tyvek, no air gap between them with no place for moisture to go.
Jack is correct . not trying to cause any grief but (I am 40 years commercial construction as carpenter)in this video it looks like the walls are furred out with 2x4 on studs then tyvec ,then metal , as you say if tyvec had been installed on framing ,not on 2x4 furring, you would have your air space and a channel for moisture to travel, i think the proper way now to eliminate the problem will be to take out the insulation ,remove tyvec and reinstall with tyvec on interior side of 2x4 furring ,taping all seams and acoustic sealant to floor .Moisture is your enemy ,mold will make you very ill and destroy your home ,like i say just trying to help not crapping on anyone's parade , i love your channel and we all have lots to learn forever. not a massive job if you do it in smaller sections. this is just my opinion .
@@billedgecombe9040 Great well-meaning, accurate comment by you...
Yikes 😬 😳 😱
I just found your channel and love how real yall are. As a carpenter and owner of a small constructions company, also a building science nerd 🤓,an air gap is the absolute fool proof way to allow the building to dry out. Another suggestion would be to get more insulation on the exterior walls between living area and the siding(i.e., add additional strips to your studs,for thicker insulation, to slow the air changes even more. Look into rockwool insulation. Unlike fiberglass,which will absorb water and lose its "r" value, rockwool repels water and has more "r" value per inch. Depending on your climate, more insulation may be necessary than here in sunny fl. to stop condensation. If yall have any more questions or concerns, I'd be happy to help you all I can. A mentor/building scientist joseph lstiburek has a ton of information on this subject. Good luck, love the channel...ALSO, if the slab doesnt have a moisture barrier under it, you will want to apply a liquid barrier before you install flooring.
Sounds good we really appreciate the input. Thanks for watching.
@@LaidBackLiving there's some debate about rockwool vs air quality, you may want to look at wool insulation. Premium price, but you can mix and match some insulation materials. The paper based insulation is s also great (cellulose) but you need to familiarize with each insulation type.
Wool is extremely specifically well adapted to the condensation issue. Rockwool comes in second but I would consider it more for vented attics and garages.
That said, fiberglass insulation is bottom tier insulation and with a very low real scenario insulation value.
Wool cellulose and mineral wool score highest, wool requires more support when applied as it slumps.
Cellulose can slump and mash together under damp pressure but also seals a little under the right conditions, which can be a positive or negative depending on where it's at.
There's the super expensive denim insulation, but it's packed tight, loses it's fluff, very moisture sensitive, so still excellent for interior privacy walls if you're framing in posts and drywall partitions.
All together, my favorites are wool denim and cellulose, wool and cellulose are good for exterior walls, denim isn't, rockwool has some nasty stuff in it, and never forget. All tech is graveyard tech.
Been watch from day one...the quality of your content, speaking and editing is great and getting better! Great job!!
The vapour barrier must always go on the inside warm side. This is true for wooden buildings as well. Poly plastic is a vapour barrier, it goes on the inside, & must be sealed with tape or acoustic sealant, to prevent moist air from penetrating the wall & reaching cold exterior. Tyvek is not a vapour barrier, it goes on the exterior cold side, where it can release any moisture that forms on the cold side of a wall. The problem with steel skinned buildings is that the steel skin acts like a vapour barrier, and so, the installation and sealing of a poly vapour barrier on the inside is critical. The ideal time to insulate and vapour barrier a steel building is in cool/cold weather, before the interior is heated. If you heat the building in cold weather, before you insulate & poly vapour barrier, you’ll be in the cycle you described.
Wow! Will follow that advise too!
The opposite is true in the south U.S. walls dry to the inside.
@@gwilliams1001 Vapour barrier goes on the warm side.
Brother, think about installing a heat shield between the woodstove and the wall behind it. Exposing the stud work to direct even just low heat temperatures will eventually lower the kindling temperature of the wood. It helps reduce the risk of structural fire down the road. Thanks for the advice about trapped moisture in steel buildings.
I literally didnt even notice that LMAO thats so scary especially with the plastic
First thing I noticed was that wood burning stove with no heat barrier behind it. That's crazy.
Refreshing to watch a video on metal buildings that isn't a stealth advertisement for metal buildings. Thank you.
Well I think he is more or less explaining their mistakes. It’s kind of false advertisement.
My pole barn had the same problem with condensation and it raining inside. My entire pole barn is wrapped with a house wrap so I didn't understand where the moisture was coming from. I asked a contractor friend about it, he told me that I wrapped the building when the gravel floor was wet and the moisture was coming out of the ground. After the ground dries out the rain inside the shop should stop. Sure enough the moisture and rain inside my pole barn on the warmer days has stopped. I don't remember when you poured the concrete foundation but concrete has a lot of water in it that has to evaporate out so you might have been getting the last little bit of moisture out of your concrete floor. :)
Adding an active radon fan to your slab will also save your life but help dry your slap and keep ground moisture from getting in
Another way for moisture to get into the walls and condense is through any electrical outlets or light switch boxes. If you have any installed on the outside walls you can use Great Stuff foam around and behind the boxes to seal and prevent moisture from forming inside the walls..
You mention the cost of the spray foam as being too expensive, but what have you spent on batting, tyvek, plastic, dehumidifying, wood stove, aggravation, time, and the possibility that still exists for mold growth? I hope I'm wrong, but I think your moisture issues are still going to be a problem.
Exactly right. Spray it and done
Agree!
To stop a metal building from collecting water is bubble rap insulation that's the insulation you use not wood home insulation
I am on a crew at times that builds Metallic brand commercial buildings. There is no vapor barrier on the outside. Not on the roof or sidewalls. But vapor barrier the inside. Not a membrane but a barrier. 10 mil poly perforated with liner panel screws with no rubber washers. This way any vapor escapes from hot to cold though the interion screws through an R-48 equivalent fiberglass metal cavity insulation to the outside. During building I have witnessed pooled rain, snowpack and ice develop on the floor. After enclosure and heating, I have seen all of that dry out and escape overnight. It really works well. All that vapor escaped though small, hidden closure gaps and j trim gaps on the roof and walls. All specifically engineered to allow rapid evacuation of moisture. I would build anything like this now unless it has cornice and ridge roof venting. It is a good lesson in vapor control. Very economical without resorting to the expense and problems of spray foam. Never try too hard. Just understand the mechanics of vapor control and apply it to construction details. Always provide a plan for airflow to the outside. To make a structure vapor-tight but not airtight. Because airtight structures will rot and rust everything vulnerable on the inside unless active measures are emplaced. Why deal with that expense. When passive control is possible.
It's interesting the "Marshal Remodel" just posted a video with a huge moisture issue in their walls. Same type of metal building, I figured it was an issue with the metal siding and tyvek issue as well as what seams to be issues with their spray foam insulation.
Glad you got it all figured out!
We built a 60' x 60' metal building, half is living quarters and half is garage and shop. We decided to put the spray foam in and delay some other aspects of the building until later due to money concerns. No doubt the ONLY way to go.
Open cell or closed?
So a cheep to use but don't know the cost to install is a heat recovery system. It draws fresh air which then passes through a heat exchanger and is exhausted into the house. The house air is drawn into the other side of the heat exchanger, gives up its heat to the incoming air and is then exhausted to the outside. I do know that this costs peanuts to run as it is basically just a fan that runs. No fancy electrics or other devices needed, just a simple fan. Because the house air is constantly being exhausted you don't get any build up of moisture. Its been proven over here in the European cold damp air. Have a search online and you will find many examples of this system. Just a thought
That's the way to go, suck out the moisture you are making
Good discussion. It’s good to understand the building science and there are many ways to “fix” any issue. I would have probably used spray foam ( closed cell ) and that would have worked good. But, it’s also the most expensive option. When I foamed The stone house, I instantly saw a HUGE savings in heating costs.. and my 8k in spray foam is probably going to pay for itself after 5 years.
Great work!!! I agree that spray foam is expensive but man its nice. I had my building done and it stays about 50 without being heated. Glad you guys can now move on from the moisture issue.
I was taught you don't want two vapor barriers which will trap moisture. Its either on the outside or inside.
You will continue to encounter condensation in these types of buildings if they are not flash insulated with CLOSED CELL SPRAY FOAM on every piece of exposed metal in the wall system. Vapor barriers are not completly impervious because of all the holes you have to put in them to attach them to the structure.
Right... People think spray foam is to pricey but it's cheaper in the long run . Protect your self from mold your body will thank you ..
CLOSED CELL being the key phrase for sure. I sprayed open before I learned that expensive lesson.
@@cbriangilbert1978 how do you replace a piece of metal like a rock thrown into it, when closed cell has bonded to it? (Other than a saw and a huge mess)
@@Aaron-hype I used all kind of different stuff but I made a huge mess. I don't know of a "proper" way or "easy" way to do it.
Running dehumidifiers for 2 years is the best thing in a new house. Fabulous presentation for the practical approach. I have seen sweating and moisture problems even when spray foam was applied.
You did better than professional builders
I watched your blog here and I deal with this issue of condensation a lot. The coating I apply is a “thermal break” when you apply this on steel it does not allow cold/warm to meet therefore it’s cannot form moisture which therefore cannot corrode. In colder climates it also will prevent ice damns because snow won’t stick to the outer roof..no energy getting through for it to melt. I have applied to many different metal buildings over the last 20 years with zero failure. We are not an insulation like polyurethane-we are just a “thermal break” we are currently testing with an Engineering firm to show how effective we are in many applications…this been one of them, although we already know how it works-industries want data…Hope everything you have done has worked.
You only need one inch of spray foam insulation to stop the condensation. You can use the fiberglass for the rest of the wall cavity.
Exactly, that's what I did, no problems.
You still need a air space the condensation still happens and it’s worse trapped in the foam .
@@jamieklok3902 That is only true if you have a way for the air to escape to the outside. ie, vented airway. Moisture can not get trapped in closed cell foam. You do NOT want an air space that is not vented. That is why they put the insulation directly on the walls. If the roof isn't vented then you still put the insulation directly on the metal and use either an hvac system or dehumidifier to control the moisture.
it is a common issue on warehouses we build.
Putting plastic under concrete slab helps stop wicking from wet soil into building also
For years I have heard storys about the moisture issues related to quonset huts. My friend owns an old fashioned one that he uses as an out-building. He complains about the thing being oppressively hot in the summertime (in Michigan) and also he complains about his tools rusting inside it. Lets go a step further and incorporate the idea of living in a quonset hut. In a way you would be living in a metal tank. It is sealed up. Moisture is generated from many sources. It is expelled from you and your family and pets breathing and perspiring. There is showering moisture is in the air. There is moisture is generated from drying dishes in the dish rack. One byproduct of a flame is water so when you use your gas cooktop or oven, moisture is generated. Plus the moisture from boiling water is generated, or other cooking such as a casserole or beef roast cooking. you come in from the rain or snow your clothes need to dry. So that adds to the moisture in the inside air. And to top it off there is the condensation issue related to the metal. If the weather outside the metal goes below the dew point, water condenses on both the inside and outside surfaces of the metal. Concrete can sweat moisture too because its porous. So living in one would be a tough nut to crack. I saw many quonset huts in Iraq but they had air conditioners pulling moisture out of them as the hot air was cooled. But they never shut off. Those ones had blown insulation on the inside surfaces of the metal. The foam needs to be a specific type to meet code requirements in the USA. And it should be intumescent too. Plug this into google earth to view a semi quonset hut style roof where no people live: 43°42'16.98"N, 85°28'21.43"W
If the wall shown were modified with a side wall made of wood and wrapped with Tyvek, I think the moisture would have a possibility of leaving the building. But there needs to be adequate square footage of flat surface to keep up with what your household generates. Think about this: On a rainy or humid day the inside of our stick-built house feels humid.
I wouldn't use spray foam, I'd use fiberglass just like he did. It would be wise to put a small and I mean small airgap between the metal and moisture barrier. Something like a shim size. They sell a very large open cell brillo pad looking strip you can put at the very bottom to keep insects from getting in.
One way to ensure that this moisture problem does not come back is with ceiling ventilation such as the oscillating ones that sit outside. They pull moisture as well. Great job guys looks like you tackled the problem!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Absolutely amazing! You are a very intelligent and well spoken young man. I did not hear you say my least favorite word in the English language even once. What is that word? Uh, ah, um...
We don't have a barn insulated living space, but our animal barn was in a low area so we had to put in ventilation fans on timers to keep the barn from raining inside it.
I have heard so many stories about issues with condensation inside sprayfoam and you can't do anything about it so I'm not sure that spray foam would have prevented your issues...
Thank you so much for sharing all your experience, so helpful.
I'm about ready to start building my post frame home with dry set brackets on top of ICF. Then I'm going to install SIP's on the outside walls and roof. Everything will be wood except for the trusses. I will probably make them out of metal because I want a vaulted ceiling. The wood floor inside the home will be just above grade but will have a 4' crawl space underneath the floor trusses. This makes the plumbing and electrical easy to run and fix if there is ever an issue. It's also easier on the feet. I'm also going to run both a wood burning stove but will also be running hydronic radiant floor heat. I'm thinking my place will be 40 x 64 with a 16' covered patio in sections. I'm also thinking of building two dormers that are proud of the side of the building and probably extend past the covered patio on one side of the structure. I haven't moved on it yet due to lumber prices and all the rest of the building materials that are inflated right now. Plus this global financial system called the central banks that are controlled by the cartel. That crap needs to be corrected first. I'll be building it all my myself and only using my own hands except for concrete days. I'm not sure where to get the laminated 2x6 post or the best price on metal roofing. I'm located in North Western Washington State if someone can help me locate a good suppler.
WOW, excellent discussion !! And, what a huge amount of work.
I really want to use closed cell foam for my future shop, but I've read comments where people say that when (not if) you get a leak in your metal building, you'll never find the leak, because the foam is obscuring it. I suppose as long as you keep up with the maintenance of your roof in particular (checking for missing/broken screws and rubber gaskets) that it should be a non-issue.
Closed cell foam is a form of a water barrier so you don’t need to wrap if you are using the closed cell and vice versa. One has to be applied to block water from entering, the only problems you may have with closed cell is if you cut sheets of styrofoam and then try to use the closed cell in the cracks, that is looking for trouble. If you use closed cell foam, don’t mix it with another method. It’s very expensive but worth it and has great R- Value
Did you insulate your slab? Also, does it have a sheet of poly in it? If not, keep that dehumidifier running forever, and also keep a very close eye on the base plates of your 1F walls. :-)
NO BIZ-QUEEN on the slap means water on the floor! Especially in the Humidity belt.
At last something a little more positive, youve earned it!
You definitely went to school on this subject..you are now the condensation king!
Seems like moisture barrier goes on living space side only, let metal and walls breathe, cold air only condenses at dew point
6mil Poly vap barrier and a proper install with acoustic sealant and tuck tape would have solved the issue, I hate to say it but if you due things half way your going to have issues. The thin plastic is a waste of time and money. some things you have to do 100% others you can skip on.
First of all, building science is building science
Instead of an air barrier you should have used an air vapour barrier like 3m 3015 .. this would allow the travelling of air to exhaust out and vapour and moisture to be blocked from coming in
Next is continuous insulation on the outside of your framing in the form of a rigid insulation or a Rockwool.. then you should have had a drainage plane with air space the same way you do with brick on a wall .. 3/4” Furred out wall would have solved all your issues as well.
The exterior finish is not to blame for your problem execution of the proper building science on the given application is.
Follow this steps on your next build and you will have zero problems .. hot or cold weather also 30% more efficient than your current set up
I'd imagine in the high desert this wouldn't be a problem. Which is why I'm considering a low-cost / low-profile barndominum home to serve as a shelter for an RV base with adjacent loft accommodation and studio space for mobile living.
My barn sweats something fierce. In AZ!!
@@virginiajorda4226 High desert or valley? It 'is' muggier this season due to having more water than the previous 2 monsoons combined this year. Seemed drier around Verde Valley or Winslow. (There's also 'garage homes' that I'm looking into - the terms seem a bit interchangeable). Water mitigation doesn't seem as bad as getting approvals for septic tanks at the moment. In fact, condensation can be routed to a cistern system ideally.
High desert. The first time it happened, I thought I had a leak!
Thank you for this huge information! I have been searching for alternatives to hollow blocks in a project in Manila. Will keep in mind.
Good info to know. Just living creates a lot of moisture. Looks good for wall finish, now. The tighter the building, the more critical a ventilation system. butyI calking would go along way to sealing the vapour barrier. was thinking horizontal steel, on wood studs, with foam standoff. Closed cell foam spray the existing foam standoff strip top to bottom. Fiberglass pink to follow. I wonder if the expanding foam would bow the steel? Glue the building together with the stuff. Nice vid, very close to what I have in mind.🇨🇦
I built a metal framed cabin with metal siding. 6 inch walls ,regular insulation. No problems. Yes I used tyvek. Cold climate.
Just outta curiosity, what part of country you guys in? We are in New England, and considering the same kind of building
Very useful food for thought on this. A great video for education and consideration on a project pending.
Great job! You did awesome working through that and figuring it out. peace
Question: There is protection between the wood stove and the plastic wall, right?
Thanks! Yes
We finished off a small metal shed, however the wood lumber used in building the shed was pressure treated. We insulated like you did and put up a thin paneling, but there was an odor we couldn't get rid of. After about 9 months we ended up tearing down the paneling and realized the odor was from the treated lumber (this was a pre-built shed). We noticed there was growth of either mold or mildew starting on the paneling. Just an FYI for anyone out there who may want to do what we wanted to do with the shed. I agree the spray foam insulation is the best alternative if you can afford it.
Spray foam would have solved your problem I’ve been doing metal siding / roofs on commercial and residential properties for 5 years we use densglass then Tyvek on the outside and spray foam on the inside
Thanks!
I wouldn't sheet the interior walls until your moisture/vapor 'fix' is a 100% certain. I have doubts that the interior visqueen sheet will do the job entirely. Also during the cooling season moisture drive works in reverse of the heating season. In that scenario moisture could condensate on the insulation side of the visqueen. There are a couple sure cures, but nothing you'll like hearing at this point.
What in your opinion is a sure cure?
@@johnnyboy1543 Closed cell PU applied directly to the the interior surface of the metal skin, with no gaps. PU thickness application needs to have enough 'R' value to push the dew point away from the interior metal surfaces. Interior wall/clg finishes need to be permeable enough to prevent trapped moisture vapor.
The entire problem is that there is a temperature difference on the two sides of the metal. The warm side of the metal will always sweat. Like a glass of ice water on a hot day. Spray foam insulation on the inside is your best option. Bat insulation with a vapor barrier will not work.
Exhaust fans in the house. Just like a bathroom, it will help. Insulate the pipe that is removing the moisture.
Would closed cell foam insulation alleviate the moisture problem with metal buildings?
Maybe you should have chosen Rockwool instead. Glasswool loves water and is hard to dry.
I wouldn't want foam insulation in my house. It's very toxic in a fire, and you can forget all about making it out of the building, before you pass out from the fumes.
Luckily it's not legal to use in my country.
Doesn’t wrapping the building in OSB and tyvek before you put on metal siding fix this?
“Flash spray” a 1/2inch to 1/4inch with “Closed cell” spray foam insulation, then re-install your bat insulation. A flash spray is a way cheaper option and Will completely stop the metal from sweating and will give your entire building an airtight seal. I’ve sprayed thousands of metal buildings and this is definitely the cheapest and best option !
The only solution to future condensation is exterior insulation Outward of your metal exterior.... or an air gap (called a rainsceen ) between your metal and your wrap and insulation.
I also recommend you get an ERV .
Drafting appliances and hood vents and fans SUCK on a house, moisture will be in the outside air that is replacing the exhausted air, this will come in through gaps and cracks... air infiltration is the other way moisture gets in the walls when it's not moisture drive from humid air going to the drying surface(cold metal , below the dew point temperature)
A whole house dehumidifier that is plumbed to a drain and constant air movement will always help.
The warmer your inside air is the more moisture it can hold (saturation) letting the inside cool down forces the moisture to drop out of the air. It's dropping out of the air when it his the cold metal.
Spray foam will fix this.. If done right.
Careful with the spray foam if the chemistry is off the VOCs will be so bad your home will be unliviable, wich the HRV/ERV can help mitigate.
It's terrible in our skoolie...every now and then we have a stream of water fall from the roof. Can't wait to build our house!
This happens in my 5th wheel.. no fun
In a quonset hut or a dome (like I lived in for 8 years), there must be allowance in one or more high spots, to vent
the inside air/moisture - out. Ideally one would have a fan vent set up, with a switch down below. The vented air, will drive out moist air really well, especially if you have a wood stove. Using a propane stove in such a space is assee-versee.
Now if you live in a giant space, (I lived in 17 foot dome) one must think about insulation and or
vapor barrier. I know nothing about this. The dome had a simple velcro patch at the peak. When it got moist inside, I raised the corners, and with the wood stove going, moisture remained perfect. All yurts have the center ring, that contains a small windows that you can open- for example after one showers or cooks.
Is the building vented?
Did you put insulation and a vapor barrier under your slab? Did you insulate the outside of the building? I know from experience it's important for the slab iif there's a high water table or just an area that doesn't dry well.
Does your metal building have an attic with intakes and ridge vent?
WoW! 30 gallons of water. Is there NO WAY it can be made USABLE? Gosh! Wouldn't that be grand.
The insulation needs to vent to remove moisture. I went through this moisture in a few months it will dry out
Wahoooo!!! 7K!! We love you Mike and Liz!! 👏👏😊😊
Marshall rebuild is having this problem too, and he did spray foam. Not sure if you have seen his last video or not.
That was gut wrenching to watch!
Thanks, that is exactly what we don’t want.
I've been thinking about the type of home / work shop. I think it's a great idea
If you did not put a vapor barrier UNDER the concrete floor you will ALWAYS have moisture trapped in your building.
Moisture is always wicking/evaporating up out of the ground into the air. Take a piece of plastic like a shower curtain and duct tape it to the floor, pull it up a day or two later and see if it isn't wet under it. If it is you could try grinding the floor and applying a sealer, but it may just peel off.
Concrete is NOT waterproof, that is why they put liners in (inground) swimming pools.
Art from Ohio
Stucco or pus cement on it with a roller used for painting
But fris put the black plastic On one side it has glue and on the other side it has black plastic, then you put the stucco or cement on the outside.
The moment you try to stop a building breathing using an impermeable membrane you will always have problems no matter what you do. The only place you can get away with metal is on the roof as long as the Ridge cap allows at least some air to escape and take the moisture with it.
Acrylic paint is a moisture barrier most people don't think about. Major cause of mildew, damp rot.
Never use a plastic vapour barrier anywhere no matter what the building codes tell you. They are the kiss of death to any timber framing, even if you use weather board.
Glass fibre causes condensation !
It's glass, just like that window glass you get condensation on. When it gets cold it sweats. when it gets wet, no insulation value anymore. Glass insulation is only going to work in ceiling cavities where the heat in the roof keeps it dry. Trap it in a wall and it fails.
There are millions of houses with fiberglass insulation in the walls. In fact, most houses have it. The way to properly insulate a wall is to stop the heated and cooled air from inside the house from entering into the cavity of the walls (and the best method is sheet rock and paint) and then allow the wall to breath to the outside by not putting any kind of barrier on the outside of the wall (a breathable vapor barrier is ok). It may also be a good idea to put vertical firring strips between the sheathing of the outside wall and any siding to allow an air gap to help the wall dry out if any moisture occurs on the outside of the wall under the siding.
I just constructed a 40x64 shop. Stick built with metal siding both inside and out. So the layers starting from the outside are: Metal, Tyvek, 2 inch spray foam, batting, Poly, metal. I just pulled a piece to do some plumbing and the spray foam is dripping like a river behind it . Not sure why but hopefully it doesn’t cause mold onto the batting over time
Ouch, building needs ventilation. If it molds, that can be treated.
Why is there plastic on the inside?
Great information on a project I am working on that is much like this. Thanks!
Simple note: condense is a verb - moisture condenses. Condensate is a noun.
Exactly.
I wonder if hemp Crete would help let the metal breathe
Use vinal back insulation goes on outside of framing behind sheet no problems ever with condensation
Some bakeries prefer using propan due to the moisture it contain.
Burning most fuel produces water, carbon/hydrogen chains -> H20 and CO2. Some CO if it doesn't completely burn. So oil, propane, NG, gasoline, kerosene, etc will all dump huge amounts of water into the space if not vented.
I recently added a heater to my shed and it looked like the easiest method would be to use those ventless propane heaters, but after I realized how much water they add, I got a diesel heater that is vented. They only place those ventless are appropriate is with another heater that is vented to make up for the moisture it pulls from the space.
Spray insulation keep water out? High density yes .5%. low density no, water permiable 5-10 I guess.
Thanks for the video btw.
We insulate as we sheet, so cheap building is cheap building ours are R30 walls R 45 roof 5'wide insulation
Does spray foam insulation make a difference?
My building was first insulated with sheet type insulation, low value, then inside about 1 ft in where the runs and poles were I had highest r value installed. Then framework was inside runs and sheetrock attached to that. So of course there was an air pocket in between. No moisture since 2013. Thankful for warm/cool home with high end upgrades for about $50K. 22x33. Still thankful✌❤
How come you didn't use spray foam? It doesn't hold moisture and it also helps kill mold . Just asking ...
Cost
@@LaidBackLiving Understandable but if you had the choice would you have put out the extra money to do it . It looks like the way you done it definitely costed more and made a lot more work in the out come with a lot more stress. Best your heart ❤
@@marye3862 costed? LOL
This is nonsense! I have lived in, indeed I am living in a metal clad building. As a now retired builder I have been involved in the construction of many more. I live in a state (Victoria, Australia) that has weather and temperature extremes - from zero to 40*c plus and on some days high humidity. It’s so simple: from outside to in, metal cladding, a moisture barrier wrap, insulated in the wall frame, drywall or ply lining. That’s it. It’s extremely important that the building is AIR TIGHT. Double glazing and cross ventilation as well. Also, insulate the roof and underfloor. I have a split system for cooling and heating plus I run a wood stove on chilly evenings. Never any moisture on inside glass ever or anywhere else either. My advice: start again… ✌️🇦🇺
Be leary of this advice and heed the video. As an architect we know modern buildings breathe--they don't block moisture instead tyvek/moisture barriers break down water into their smallest constituents so that moisture DOES actually enter your wall assembly but DOES NOT form into dew drops but simply passes through; because water will destroy even metal over time. But, more important!, if your body sweat and everyday moisture can't escape--you can make a perfect breeding ground for mold, spores, and bacteria--which will become airborne. Don't take my word for it, lookup the sad history of Legionnaires Disease and Pontiac Fever Pneumonia from poor building ventilation. I recommend roof ridge vents, dehumidifiers, and always having a quality air monitor on at all times if you're going to build and live in metal buildings or barndominiums. You'll need an extra smart-home (monitors, data producing technology) to stay on top of your health. Good luck everyone.
@@zarazalazar not entirely correct. I don’t where in the world you practice as an architect. What I described was normal building practice in temperate areas of Australia with variations due to climate extremes in the hotter parts of the continent. Any self respecting architect will tell you that an efficient building in cooler climates is an airtight building properly ventilated and to eliminate condensation. Sealing the interior of a building with polythene as shown in the video is guaranteed to introduce buckets of moisture. As I said before my comments regarding metal cladding were based on actualities not theory…
If you have 1 pin hole and a mean 1 pin hole anywhere in that plastic water will be in your walls. Cut and see. I promise you will have some in the years to come. You should not have put plastic for sure. Also get rid of that cheap pink stuff. Not trying to piss you off. Just trying to help. i was there and did the same and payed the price. I got rid of the plastic and put super good insulation and now have no problems 5 years later. No plastic lets it dry from the inside and good insulation stops the sweating. That pink stuff is made out of glass and you know what happens when you take a glass of water out side. The glass sweats. Try the same thing with a foam cup. No sweating.
Why not spray foam right when you construct it?
lots of time it's cost
Oh man that sucks. Hopefully all that work will pay off and it stays dry.
I love that wood stove! That’s a beast!!!❤️
We’re going through draft issues.
Gotta love winter time and finding out what worked and what needs work ;)
Love your progress guys, keep it up!
Thanks man! And thank you for watching.
the slab drying over time is also a moisture source still at this point.
Dont they have spray insulation they use for barndominiums as their vapor barrier?
Yes if you can afford it
Very good info, thanks guys
The minute the video opened and I saw the type of insulation I already knew what the conversation was about
EL WRONGO DUDE-O.....spray foam insulation traps water against whatever surface it’s near. I’ve torn apart (2) spray-foam insulation jobs and had to completely replace the entire floor systems in each. Metal always condensates
Does condenstop work or is it not used by most builders?
I love your channel 🙂 and y'all built a awesome building
Thank you for this very helpful information. 🙂
"DuPont™ Tyvek® weather barriers have a unique structure, with millions of extremely fine pores that resist bulk water and air penetration, but allow water vapor to pass through and escape the building."
It would be nice to see the outside of the building at some point as you describe things.
does anybody know if there is a house wrap membrane product that can stick onto metal framing in a house with no sheathing?
Should have used spray foam installation mold can’t grow under spray foam
So a wood stove and stack inches from a flammable material (i.e., plastic sheeting and studs)??? Definitely a dangerous code violation.
Dyna glo kerosene heater is great heat and does not cause humidity or overly dry conditions. Extremely cheap to run. Good luck.