The Unhinged HORROR Of The Gotham Butcher
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- The New 52 saw many changes to the Batman mythos, one of the best received was the addition of the Court of Owls and their undead assassins the Talons. DC Comics introduced a new long lasting piece to Bruce Wayne's history. However, not all Talons were created equal there was one so heinous he was locked away for over a century...The Gotham Butcher. Who was the Gotham Butcher and how did he go from horrifying to over the top. We discuss his time on the Talon series under Scott Snyder and James Tynion IV here on Casually Comics!
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Were You A Fan Of New 52 Batman?
Alot of changes that didn't stick but did have a lot of good idea....really like Mr Bloom
I really love a lot of new 52 batman, I just wish that there was more diversity of villains within it, especially due to Snyder's and capullos propensity for horror, I would have loved to see them explore characters like scarecrow, or mad hatter, or man bat or whoever else. New 52 batman has a big joker problem like zero year was such a nice breather I love that story line. I feel like batman new 52's biggest problems are that as well as just the overarching problems that stemmed from being in the new 52 weirdness
I havent read these off shoot stories so im not talkinh about them, but they dont seem like my thing
Yes. Scott Snyder's Batman run was great. John Layman's run on Detective also. Greg Hurwitz on Batman the Dark Knight was superb. He did the best Mad Hatter story I've ever read. So in general it was a good time for him.
I'd just gotten back into comics when the New 52 was happening so I couldn't really form an opinion, but I grew to dislike it over time. There's still a lot of Batman and Green Lantern stuff I liked though.
Except for Zero Year. Not that it was bad but since Batman Begins everything was about exploring the early years of Batman.
Besides, New 52 Batman and New 52 Detective Comics are the only entire runs of the character I have.
...I also didn´t care when Joker was brought back by the end. Got tiresome.
14:21 "He looks too much like Batman. Make him look more like Wolverine!"
But wouldnt he be look like the batman who laughs?
bougie Egyptian black panther
The Gotham Butcher feels like a late 90s Deadpool villain. He's just got the vibe of a total edgelord tryhard X-men villain with an elaborate headpiece
That’s literally every villain created by scott snyder. All try hard childish surface level stuff.
deadpool had less edgy villains, but a lot of them were just regular criminals
Loool, yall trying to call something edgy. Comic nerds are the new soccer moms 😂😂
@@dangerousdays2052 There's tasteful and good writing with edgy. And there's snyder, which is as deep as a damn puddle. I love edgy shit, but make it fun, entertaining or have a point. Best is to compare judge de'ath with batman who laughs. Sydney is a psychotic but funny bastard who is powerful but not invincible. While Batman who try hard is just cold steel the hedgeheg as batman.
You just described why I don't read DC.
I love how your look always matches the tone of the comic
indeed, it’s pretty impressive
Facts, it's always so cool
For real
Professionals have standards!
The later Butcher looks like the Mouth of Sauron on "protein shakes"
I can't unsee it.
good point. That just makes me love that iteration even more.
Goteem
Gotham Butcher
First half: menacing nightmare monster
*break*
Second half: Discount, edgelord, Sabretooth.
That Talon ongoing was underrated. The character as a whole has been under the radar in a way that he doesn't deserve, with the potential he has.
I agree. It’s definitely not Tynion’s best work, but this was DC’s strongest attempt at fleshing out the mythos of The Court of Owls.
Dc should give him another chance (and maybe give him allies composed of other rebel talons like Stryx, Mei Ling, Ephraim or Nathaniel).
@@Lili-ib2rh absolutely. I think when people say they want more exploration of the Court of Owls, they don’t mean the institution itself, but individual members like the Talons. None of the ideas they’ve made regarding the Court’s goals have really stuck, but the Talons themselves really resonated with people both then and now.
I think I would have preferred they leaned into an older aesthetic for the Butcher’s design.
An unnerving, shadowy urban legend dressed in mysterious clothing, placing him out of time, like a ghost from some distant era would have contributed to the creep factor, the folktale aesthetic and a more unique look.
He does go way too far into the realm of hardcore edge lord, just make him spookier, don’t cop out with this overly graphic try-hard character. Remember how many great slashers spend a lot of their screen time obscured, or merely alluded to.
I’m always impressed by the new 52 to be this trove of interesting stuff that could easily be revisited. Stuff like Batman Eternal, The Dark Knight detective sub-line and remains of Batman Inc were full of fun stuff.
Remember Nobody? Emperor Penguin? The weird Metal Gear version of WRATH?
Ironically they should have leaned into the Jack the Ripper thing, but with a side of one of Batman's inspirations: Spring-Heeled Jack. Less jacked the hell up and more like a daemonic man of the era with impossible speed, strength, and agility. His physique shouldn't match his power. Keep him Bane-strong, but have him only built like Nightwing. Keep the headpiece and grin, but go for standard Jack the Ripper type clothing.
@@PosthumanHeresy Keep him tall too, like a towering shadow looming over you
@PosthumanHeresy
... you gave me ideas for an OC at the least. Thank you.
@@PosthumanHeresyagree on everything but the physique part. His large physique really sells his larger than life nature and could better sell him as why people thought he was this demon rather than just some guy. Plus the way some of the artists play with that size is great
Every time I learn about these darker villains in Gotham, I just think....imagine what an Adam West Batman version of the character would be like? This one in particular would be hilarious. "Holy twisted off heads, Batman!"
I imagine he's this comical large man with a saw to cut out a opening for his size.
And he has heavy duty plungers to climb up walls.
The Butcher looks like something out of a Spawn comic
I hate how he went from this evil batman knockoff design to edgy wolverine
The Gotham Butcher wants a challenge...
So he murders an orphanage.
You know, Gotham City has a history of some seriously OP orphans, so I can actually see how that tracks...
I honestly hate the idea of his parent's death being premeditated and not random. Because then at that point he can just kill/imprison the people responsible, avenging his parents which therefore gives him no reason to keep being batman.
Also it misses the whole point of his backstory and why he does what he does.
I mean it still gives him a reason to be Batman and to fix Gotham. The rich manipulated Gotham for years and the poor became criminals just to live, so taking out the rich that caused the problem he'd still need to fix the poor and the criminal problem
I think Snyder specified that it WASN’T a conspiracy, Bruce just thought it was, tried to find evidence of the Court, and didn’t. He’s later proven wrong, that the Court was real, but there’s no indication that he’s wrong about the conspiracy. According to Batman: The Dark Knight #0 from 2012, the killer was just a random criminal. Now, this could be contradicted later, knowing how disorganized the New 52 was, but Snyder didn’t make that retcon in Court of Owls (to my recollection).
Split the difference: there was a plan to eliminate Thomas and Martha but Joe Chill was just a random nobody that saw an opportunity and tried to take it.
@@ianfinrir8724 Came here to say exactly this
My only counter would be that you could argue as he grew up he realized others suffered the way he had, that his suffering wasn't unique, and have that motivate him to fight the cause of suffering -- that's actually a key moment in Alfred Lord Tennyson's "In Memoriam," for example. Tennyson's best childhood friend had just died, shortly after he getting engaged to Tennyson's sister. It broke Tennyson. But as he works through his grief he realizes that while he had lost a friend, his sister had lost the love of her life...and that leads him to the realization that even his sister's sorrow isn't special. "But One writes, that `Other friends remain,' / That `Loss is common to the race'- / And common is the commonplace, / And vacant chaff well meant for grain. / That loss is common would not make / My own less bitter, rather more: / Too common! Never morning wore / To evening, but some heart did break."
The first mask felt like some old timely masquerade ball design. It really went well with the "old money conspiracy" feel he had while being vaguely reminiscent of Batman. Also the juxtaposition between the simplic elegance of the mask and his warped joker smile plays into his character.
The new mask looks like he's a cartoon. If it was a different villain i could defend it but his costume should feel more grounded, more realistic to reflect this urban legend/ true crime tone
He's got a highly decorated owl head chest piece. Imo the first mask looked almost homemade/unfinished and stood out from the getup. The shaped headpiece looked more congruent while maintaining the faceless anonymity. Hate how they changed his smile underneath though; his initial appearance really gave him a creepy old man aura about him I liked.
Love that, even though it wasn't in the speech balloon, you still did the Hannibal Lecter tongue noise - the Butcher absolutely seems like the kinda guy to do that.
The Court Of Owls never get crazy enough for me. They should make more trouble in Gotham. They sit there and discuss what they might do. C'mon already! Only Batman stands between them and running the show!!
I'd love a video on gentleman ghost, I feel like he's one of those characters who could be a major player with the right story to launch him
But that would be a good decision. DC and WB don't make those.
Honestly the Butcher struggles a lot because they just didn’t use him enough. For a character who was initially presented as a rival and primary threat for Rose, he gets sidelined to doing unrelated evil things that vaguely hurt Rose.
He probably would have worked better if he remained this unstoppable predator that hunted Rose nonstop just to see how hard he’d be to catch. I don’t know why they let bane kill Rose instead of him being caught by the Butcher.
How did this guy run around Gotham catching bodies and Batman didn't even show up to knock some sense into him? That's so weird.
Batman can't be everywhere.
@@AllMight6 Granted but if the murders are this grizzly and happening frequently one would assume Batman would be looking into it.
The last time I was this early, the Post Crisis was still a thing.
The original headpiece invokes the executioner's cowl. The new design feels more like a hellraiser knock off.
I completely forgot about this series. I've been so disappointed with how the Court of Owls has been squandered that most things to do with it have been relegated to my dead zone. I think I remember liking this book. I'll have to go back and read it again.
14:31 that's wolverine without eyes
I've been wanting to get the Court of Owls for some time (that art!!) but it's still in the wish list. Never even heard of Talon. The art looks amazing in the early issues at least.
Pioneering the field of anti-asmr with that Butcher threat-slurp. 😂
He kinda has a Killmonger Black Panther with the Batman Who Laughs smile… I dig it
The panther who barks
It's all just copying the Joker, creepy twisted smiles are part of his brand. And all these villains with the same smiles just dilutes that.
I like the idea of the court of owls being tied to the Waynes in the history but their death should still be a random mugging. Like Bruce thinking they are connected to it and end up finding out that they had nothing to do with it. Would add so much to Bruce having to deal with the fact that even if he goes deeper into the conspiracy. It’s still a random tragedy he has to accept
"But slowly more and more Batman would creep into the story, eventually taking it over." Kind of like how Batman took over Detective Comics, which originally had no Batman whatsoever. Kind of like DC as a company, as a whole, actually.
Talon series is so underrated! Needs more love!
Omg, thanks for mentioning the Talons and Felix.😍 I love the Talons and I think these characters are so misused (most of them are so tragic and deserve better). And Felix...well he's not tragic but he's one of the few villains in New52 that I really liked. I thought he was very similar to Mister Hyde from LOGE (not just in looks but also his sophistication, dark humour and smarter than he looks).
Batman has more Evil Counterparts than the Doctor or Reed Richards.
This was a real good one! I love when you go all analytical. And matching outfit to the subject that one step further.
The art here was spectacular (mostly). Is the story(ies) collected?
If you’re looking for a spooky yet obscure villain I suggest Lord Pumpkin from the Ultraforce series.
Or Jack-o Lantern from Spider-Man.
the juxtaposition of that first issue cover always throws me off cus it looks like he's got really big hands. this was a fun book, great tho honestly, it started to fizzle out the second they made him full talon. great video!
He looks great in every panel you showed, so definitely well-done on the aesthetic front. He looks more like a horror monster than a comic villain
I think a lot of the critique leveled at the Butcher, being over utilized, losing focus on what the character should be, and becoming almost cartoonishly evil, are a lot of the same reasons why (at least personally I feel) is what caused Batman Who Laughs to be such a mishandled concept.
Nihilistic brutality seems to be Snyder's thing. But perhaps I'm being uncharitable.
He's essentially an edge lordy horror writer. Batman has dark material so he's a good fit for it. He should really create his own universe and go wild. I get the feeling that he would get way more satisfaction from it. It's rich that the Court of Owls don't just off him and be done with it. What would be interesting if Bats somehow could train him into the no-kill-only-cripple rule. Making challenging for him would be the selling point. Keeping him on ice in the Cave as a last resort. Giving him a new moniker - Knight Fall.
I love the Court of Owls, and definitely want to see more of them.
But the Gotham Butcher… Feels like a more ninja version of Bain. And I agree stayed long past his welcome. The problem overall is that both the Butcher and the Court need to be used more sparingly.
The design also gives off a 1800's take on Bane. But more murderous.
I always wonder now and again what happened with Calvin. He just never shows up since like 2015
I, too, sometimes think about Calvin.
Gotham Butcher's design reminds me of the Elseworld's Finest Batman design. In that story the Batsuit is ancient egyptian armor that the story's version of Bruce Wayne dons after stumbling upon an anicent Wizard's tomb in Egypt after a scuffle between him and the league of Assassins while looking for the city of Argos along with Superman and Lana Lang.
I... I don't remember him... Like... *At all.* I read Talon book, I remember Sebastian's betrayal, Casey's dismemberment (the fact it happened), and Sarah's reconditioning. I remember Bane killing Calvin, and I even remember a little scuffle with Benjamin Orchard. I *don't* remember the Gotham Butcher. How is that even possible...?
I was thinking I have time for a 20 minute video before I leave for work, and than I refreshed and this was posted!!!! great timing there!
Whenever Batman is jot in the comic, all the other characters should be asking "Where is Batman?"
I see the missed opportunity imagine if The Butcher decided BANE was the challenge he's been seeking and The Butcher decides he's no longer interested in the Calvin mission you could switch the whole rest of the book into a war between The Butcher & Bane with The Court of Owls, Calvin, & Batman teaming up to stop them
The Floronic Man from Legacy of The Swamp Thing is a good spooky character. Awesome work.
"It's a lot", is said a lot in this video. And I agree.
Its kinda funny, how Butcher starts as a type of Bane-Joker (a dangerous and creepy person we dont know anything about) and then turn him into a lesser Bane
that redesign of his helmet changed him from Pyramid Head to a Wolverine knock-off.
The Gotham Butcher looks a cross between Venom and Bane dressed as Owlman.
Love that you comment/analyse some more modern stories (would love some more from the 70s and onward). :)
I think if he fought his antagonist and almost lost or tied would have sent him even further mentally spiraling. He perceived himself as such a big baddie to then be almost taken out and survive knowing the antagonist could do it again. I think it would have been interesting seeing that.
I never even knew this character existed. While similar to several Bat-villains as you mention, I keep getting Venom with the hulking physique, creepy smile, and sadism. (from V's original Peter-Parker fixated appearances)
you say he's too much like Bane, but... He's literally just Asrael, at the end of knightfall... Right down to the claws... The biggest difference is that Valley was literally cosplaying Bat-Man...
So he's basically Sabretooth, but as a Batman villain?
That thing that happened there with that lady in the Talon where she kills the villain reminds me of when that happened in the Question black label book as well .
I'm going to try redesigning him someday. I like his concept and agree with your critique of his redesign.
He had a few memorable looks, especially when he looks like a giant that can grab entire people in his hands/claws. However the artist swaps didn't do him any favors.
Honestly the court of owls felt like a really cool idea that kept tumbling the more they built on it. They brought in Thomas Wayne to do this whole Owlman thing, and then gave him the dumbest looking suit I'd ever seen in my life. It looked like a tie in toy armor.
And then there is the vagueness on how 'done' the Court is, I'd assumed Thomas had wiped them all out, but then they keep coming back. People coming back is one thing, but groups, insitutions. Urgh
Ever since the invention of the Court of Owls, they have been running them into the GROUND in recent adaptations and other media!
I didn't catch the Talon comics when they first came out and only learned of this guy from the Knight Models Batman miniatures game.
I very much agree that they seemed to loose focus on what made the character cool.
Awesome lipstick.
I finally figured out what the new headpiece reminded me of: Q's headpiece in Encounter at Farpoint, the first episode of Star Trek The Next Generation. It's has the same "Space Catholic" vibe.
I'd honestly forgotten all that happened in Talon. Which might speak volumes. I wonder: who would win a fight between The Gotham Butcher and Billy Butcher from the Boys?
Being red green colourblind I do hate it when they do villain speech balloons with red words on blackground as I have to squint to read those. Nice to see some white on black here though as that works fine for me.
I do recall one story during Forever Evil. I cannot remember what it was in. But it was a brief bit with two members of the court of owls saying they were going to deal with the crime syndicate by unleashing.....the original Talon!. What would he have been like? We never found out. Can but wonder.
How it started:
Court of Owls: Butcher, are you ready to kill for us?
Butcher: Heh heh heh. Always.
How it's going:
Butcher: I'm Mister Blood Eagle, I'm Mister Eye Gouger.
I'm Mister Impaler; I'm Mister Deathblow.
Friends call me Kill Miser, whoever I touch,
turns blue in my clutch.
I'm too much.
Talon Minions: He's Mister Genocider, he's Mister Reap.
Butcher: That's right!
Talon Minions: He's Mister Slash Happy; he's Mister Thrill Killer.
Butcher: Friends call me Kill Miser, whoever I touch,
turns to blue in my clutch.
Talon Minions: He's too much!
That's the weirdest Hawkgirl cosplay I've ever done seen.
never heard of the gotham butcher before but i love his original design and concept now. Reminds me of batzarro, the bizarro batman, world's greatest criminal who slums in crime alley.
The Butcher had a less is more notion to him, built up like lobo, when Bane kills off his prey there should have been a turn so batman and Bane would fight the Butcher and ice him.
I really don't like the change to Batman's origin that the Court of Owls entails. I don't mind the secret conspiracy, but I dislike how it makes Batman's thing all about revenge - feels like it's playing into the satire version of Batman. That said, I think that the Butcher could have been interesting, especially if he decided that the most challenging kills would be to turn on the Court (especially once they turned Calvin into a Talon). Could have teamed up with Casey (who would be trying to get Calvin back, along with her daughter), and still indulged in some brutal murders, which Casey has to put up with because she can't fight the Court without Butcher. Could even drop hints that she plans to kill Butcher as soon as she gets Calvin back, which he ignores (seeing her as not dangerous enough to be worth killing until he's finished Calvin off).
I just think he overstayed his welcome. As they dragged out the plot, his shenanigans got more cartoonish and there's a limit to the amount of melodrama a villain can engage in before it becomes tired and the reader numb to it.
So basically, The Butcher was an idea that had potential just as the Talon series and character had potential but it was totally botched in favor of having the Batman story cannibalize all of it.
Yep...
_The Gotham Butcher seems like someone who could be pen pals with Micheal Krombopulos since both like killing...._
(Looks at thumbnail) "Dark multiverse?"
(Remembers about the court of owls) "Oh wait." Never got to know the end of this character since my library had (I believe) one issue.
I like the idea of a "Gotham Butcher" who comes back and haunts the streets decades later, but I don't think the character himself could stay in that position for too long. It's a great 1 time idea that, I think, would lose potency over time. Eventually he'd have to contend with being a part of the greater universe or die/be forgotten at the end of his first story arc. They would need to take him into a drastically different direction to keep him interesting.
I wish DC would add more characters to the lantern corps permanently. Adding lantern powers is a great thing for bumping a characters threat factor and linking them to the greater universe, but only if it's a permanent change they continue to be written with instead of a one time thing (can you tell I miss yellow lantern Scarecrow?).
Great video, but, I want to know about the shirt you’re wearing. Where can I get one?
I kinda prefer the witch-hat look The Gotham Butcher had in the flashback, rather than either of the hats they gave him after he came back.
I also want to see the Gotham Butcher come back, but in some inane way where he butts heads with other big batman bruisers. Have him randomly show up and fight Killer Croc or Bane or the Riddler. He just starts trying to headhunt other villains and it complicates Batman's current work since there is now a goofy Batman Who Laughs looking pud on steroids attacking his rogue's gallery.
The Court of Owls was also the main villains of the Gotham Knights show... which ended up being better than people thought.
When you think Gotham can’t scare you, it finds a scary way to scare you. Earth-3 Owlman give me a question if their is an Owlman in earth-3 is their a Court of the Bats?
Or perhaps Owlman was a former Talon?
Gotham Butcher giving strong Stanley Ipkiss vibes.
I really like him, great antagonist. Talon was a bit slow in the middle of the run but was over all great much thanks to this guy!
I think a video about Raptor the nightwing villain from his rebirth run could be interesting he’s a genuinely interesting villain also related to the court of owls that I don’t believe has really showed up since
DC's stories are often surface level and almost always over stresses money as a super power. And the villians are always "comically" bad and shallow.
Never heard of this guy!
He has a lot of horror movie Michael/Jason energy and those characters have a similar downgrade effect from appearing too often and having too much revealed about them.
I think good route to go with him would be as an unstoppable killer: whenever he gets out he is sent after a specific target, whom he always succeeds in killing! After this, the hero of the story then captures him or sees him die again, but whenever he appears, his target is going to die.
This could even have its own buildup over time as more and more of the Bat-family and Talon try to stop him each appearance.
Maybe he could get a short arc like every other Halloween or so.
The Gotham Butcher instantly gave me Sabertooth vibes as soon as he appeared.
Hey! Ever heard of DC's most underrated and unhinged supervillain, Snow Flame?!
the Butcher sure is *BUFF*
they wanted him to be slenderman only to be seen as a buff murderer who tries too hard
I like brutality, but in terms of action or to give a realistic feel to a character. I think with The Butcher, it's good for action sequences. His appearance can say more than actions if he's around certain characters. Some things can do more with less.
I really want the former Talons, (Strix, Calvin, etc.), to be in books again. They have so much potential for good stories but DC has this problem maintaining new characters' presence.
The Gotham Butcher is fine. Definitely not a character to use a whole lot though. It's highly doubtful we'll ever see him.
His miniature in the Batman Miniatures Game is massive though. Almost the biggest model in the game, so the team over at Knight Models were very faithful in how they presented him in the game.
To be fair, from what I recall it was never confirmed that the court of owls killed Bruce’s parents
Youre completely correct. In fact i think its not him considering the talons methods of killing. It was a mugging imo. Magbe the court wanted to kill them but it doesnt mean they did. Maybe thee mugging happened first just kike in The Batman
Tynion, huh? That makes me even *less* interested in reading this book than when it was published.
Going by this review, it seems like Tynion didn't really know what to do with the concepts he had to work with, and settled for going "big" or "extreme" to make up for it. Not unlike the Eternal books or his 'Tec run. Seems even before those stories, he struggled to become serviceable without Scott Snyder's assistance.
Makes me wonder if his issues of "Talon" had constant crying, surface-level poetic posturing, and scenes where fights are about to start, jumps to another scene, then returns to after the fight is over.
I wonder if you do a video on Pandora?
Didn't Pre-new 52 Batman mythos have a vigilante before batman called the reaper?
Going the sabertooth route with the butcher wouldve worked. A primal predatory nightmare with the cunning and brutality that its almost inhuman; he wants a challenge in order to sharpen his skills almost reasset himself as the alpha of the talons he got the jobs done but its downright terrifying when he is unleashed even cobb would have problems facing him. If william cobb is a percision knife then felix harmon is a barbed spear hurts like hell and prolongs the suffering. His rivalry with calvin is more on the challenge a talon that actually makes him put actual effort on his part. Now regarding the whole talon and the courth they serve better as a nightwing centered concept because he has a genuine stake with the owls as he almost became a talon like cobb before him but bruce saves him hence their hate towrads batman is more like they treat dick like stolen properly their greastest weapon in generations stolen by an elite who fights agaisnt their designs. Now by the time calvin becomes a full talon the butcher couldve gone rogue since we know the court and parlament had problems locking him up period thats how dangerous he is all while slowly taunting calvin to remember him to reignite that rivalry he wants to finish the challenge.
16:08 WHAT IN GOD’S NAME WAS THAT, SASHA?!?! 🤣🤣🤣
Well, this is the darkest use of my last name in fiction I've found so far.
To make this even funnier, Felix is what we named one of our cats.
I was never a fan of the whole "Court of Owls everything is a conspiiiiiiiiiiracy!" nonsense. But I am endlessly amused by how much the Gotham Butcher resembles an off-brand Black Panther by way of Black Adam.
Yeah, The Batman who laughs has this same problem and works better with less is more.
The gothem butcher looks like the powered up black ranger
Redesign of his head defiantly made him less scary, because of removal of facial factures.
Looks like a crazy ass evil black panther to me.
I love the court of owls. I think it was amazingly done. This whole secret society that even Batman wasn't aware of. Makes me think of idr what it's from but superman is talking to Batman about a group and Batman says he's never heard of them and supes says that's disturbing lol. I also never knew owlman had a sidekick called talon that's really awesome and a cool connection so thanks for sharing that. For the butcher though i agree with you. Too much to push him over the top. The original costume is much more menacing. The second one reminds me of wolverine and I can't take it seriously. It's like it started out good and and then fell flat. And I also agree that rose should have taken him out.
I think if he kinda got a soft reboot this character could be done much better. Maybe have him break out of a talon prison or something and force the court to ask for Batmans help after Batman has been gathering Intel on murders around Gotham. Bane could be a victim too. Idk 🤷 just a thought. But I think they could play up the Boogeyman aspect he has and do him more justice.