I think one of the worst side effects of extreme collectivism is that it suck out the creativity out of many people. I've heard stories from western people teaching in Chinese schools. For example younger kids being completely puzzled when they could draw anything but they couldn't come up with any idea and didn't even seem to understand the task. The teacher repeated that they can draw anything, anything they would like to draw like a house or a leopard or really anything. And of course every single one of them ended up drawing a house or a leopard....
Love your work. You present a perspective that is more believable and relatable than western "propaganda" from the government and media (left and right) Your videos can help bring understanding of China to Americans and help counter the western claims of China's ambition to take over the world. Your efforts are important, and you're doing a good job. Keep it up.
Lets remember that Innovation REQUIRES a Competitive culture that loves to outdo EACH other for the sake of self gratification; which is essentially how we evolve progressively.
The way China handles coronavirus totally proves your point of collectivism. On this point I prefer China's way. But sometimes I think there could be more individualism than collectivism.
On the road to 1k subs!! Another dope vid, maybe you can at some point do another one more detailed on the education system because that's really interesting also because a lot of Chinese teens go to universities abroad
People need to realize though that most Eastern Asian cultures didn't just start becoming Collectivist because of Marx, Communism, or anything like that, they've had this type of culture for much longer. Trying to enforce our type of individualism is very foreign to them, because their brains just weren't wired that way. Even though Japan is a more free country, they still have what I call a "Corporate Collectivist mentality", meaning their whole lives revolve around honor and serving the corporations, giving them little free time to live as actual, individualistic humans. The proof is that most have no social life, have to rent friends/family, pay people just to make them remember what showing emotions is like, and die from overworking.
That’s the secret sauce to Asian success in the west tho. They help each other out. You might call it collectivism but it’s just pragmatic and effective
It has its pluses and minuses. A lot of specifically East Asian societies are somewhat like the Borg, you are taught to think alike, act alike, serve either the government or corporation, have very little free time; etc. However, it's shown that it does diminish innovation, creativity somewhat, and overall sanity really. It's the reason they place so much emphasis on honor, respect for authority, and politeness. Like you said though, it's definitely smart in way, they see things in a more unified, holistic sense, which is why Asian culture like China have lasted so incredibly long.
Individualism is ESSENTIAL to innovation. Having the confidence that you as an individual can change the world. Having the courage to stand against the collective crowd and break the status Quo. Do you understand now why it's hard for them to innovate. Copying/Manufacturing established designs does well under collectivism NOT for innovation. Hence, China's current stagnation/low quality products.
Collectivism says that vegetables are good for you and forces you to eat vegetables, because they are good for you. Individualism says that vegetables may be good for you and you should probably eat them, but we will never force you to eat them. An example of collectivism in the U.S, is seatbelts. The government did some studies that showed that seat belts saved lives. The government told the people that seat belts saved lives, but the people were not willing to pay extra to have seat belts installed in their cars. Individuals made the decision that they just did not want to pay extra for seat belts. Well, the government thought that the people were stupid for not paying extra for seat belts, so the government passed a law that forced auto manufactures to install seat belts for the collective good of the stupid people who didn't want to pay extra for seat belts. Then the government told the people that there would never be a law to force them to wear the seat belts that the government had forced auto manufactures to put into cars. Then the government passed a law that allow police to stop you and tell you that you should be wearing your seatbelt. And, now a cop can stop you and give you a ticket for not wearing a seat belt that you never wanted in the first place. Under individualism, the government would have done nothing about seat belts. If you want to have them installed and use them, fine. If not, fine. With collectivism the government will slowly make laws that control every aspect of your life -- for your own good, of course.
wow, you and i share the same brain? i have been thinking about the connection between collectivism and confucianism too and it all starts to make sense about how Chinese and asians think and behave in a society.
It would help if you elaborated on that point of view. It's like me saying that in dealing with COVID-19 - INDIVIDUALISM seems to work better. You're not adding anything of value to the conversation.
@@leighharwood916 i think op is referring to the vaccination and mask wearing hesitancy. When it's individualistic, individuals can decide for themselves if they want to vaccinate, wear masks or not without caring about the community. But in a collectivistic society, caring about the community means you'll wear masks and be vaccinate regardless if you personally want to or not because collectivism prioritizes the whole over the self.
@@VocaFan4ever This is why the ancient conflict between individualism and collectivism is fundamentally irreconcilable. Collectivists believe that the group is more important than the individual and that the individual must sacrifice their own freedom or happiness for the benefit or sake of the group. As you put it, the whole must be prioritized over the self. Individualism holds to the belief that the individual is more important than the group and that the group itself doesn't really exist. It's not metaphysically real. A group is simply a mathematical concept of the mind which represents more than one person. Thus, all you're really talking about are individuals. Again, the same principle must be applied to the so-called 'community'. It's just other people! Furthermore, I would advance the case that individuals are primarily driven be self-interest - even the collectivists who 'claim' to be concerned about others. If any man or woman has to choose between saving their life or the life of a stranger - they will choose their life. SELF-INTEREST!! Nobody cares about the 'community' because the imaginary community is simply composed of strangers. These are people we bear no harm or ill-will towards, but are nevertheless strangers. In other words, we have no emotional investment in them like we would a family member or close relative. This is common sense. You stated "you'll wear masks and vaccinate regardless...........". This implies coercion against the individual and the right to live their own life and stand on the judgement of their own mind. This is not only immoral, but evil in my estimation. Collectivism is inherently all about coercion - because the philosophy doesn't recognize the individual only the group dynamic of serving the greater good. But there is a big problem with the so-called 'GREATER GOOD'! As individuals, we each have a different understanding and concept of what the 'greater good' constitutes. One man's idea of heaven can be another man's idea of hell and so the whole idea breaks down straight away. Human beings can rarely agree on anything. Just look at the history of the human race i.e. war, political and social conflict/change, etc I COULD GO ON FOREVER AND AT NO POINT WILL A PICTURE OF THE GREATER GOOD EMERGE. It would be more accurate to say that people have ideas about the 'greater good' and in most cases - they try and impose those ideas on others because they believe in the inherent virtue of their own morality!
Pretty much the same all over Latin-america ad well. Especially in Guatemala which is the most collectivisitic culture in the world according to Hofstede.
That's really interesting - I think because China is technically "communist" people focus on its collectivism so much more, but it's definitely not unique to them. That explains why aspects of Latin America felt so familiar when I lived there!
@@michellezhang7275 Hi Michchelle Zhang, Actually i just Discovered your Channel A black wanted living Cleveland Ohio Your So Beautiful and Interesting Honestly, i always wanted to move to China its my Dream.
I wonder about the personal interest and personality of individuals in a collectivistic society. How do they deal with that? There must be some sort of individuality even there right?
Not really, but then again, they don't know any differently, for most it is natural and normal in most east Asian cultures. In Japan for instance, people are so devoted to their jobs and companies, that they literally rent fake gfs and family members; etc. just to create the illusion of a social life, because society there doesn't allow for much of a social life. So much of life there is regimented, planned out, structure; etc. which of course has it's positives, but they have virtually no free time as we know it. I learned that from Japanese friends I made here in the United States. It's hard for us to understand it, but that's just how they live.
Also, I can only assume that there is really no such thing as loneliness in a collectivist society compared to an individualistic one. I love some aspects of both.
Trust me it's not as great as it sounds. Unless you basically want to just become a number in society unable to make any decisions of your own. Would you like to be like a Borg in Star Trek lol?
hey! omg i hope u can respond. i need to write about an event in China's history that helped shape them into being collectivistic. could i talk about the cultural revolution, the great leap forward, or Mao Zedong? i dont know what to write about ... HELP
China is not a collectivistic system. In actual collectivism the collective itself decides on the rules that govern the collective. In China there is a very small subset of the collective, the party, that decides the rules for the collective. Maybe Chinese people are collective oriented but that is abused and distorted by the party. China is greatly advised to get rid of it and become an actual collective without a ruling class. Like bees or ants. ... But that than is a locally operating democracy. Which does not exists on this planet currently Besides any functional collective needs unconditional freedom of speech to even see the solution space to any problem they face. Since China does not have this the collective can not even see optimal solutions let alone decide on them.
You forgot about hedonism. It's rampant in China. The CCP collectively decides for the greater. You forgot about the different tiers for the gaokao. Different cities and countryside. Why do countryside kids have to score higher than city kids? Again, forgot about the family registration. Only does who are city folk can go to the best public schools. Countryside are not allowed. Thus, creating private education. Too expensive for the majority.
Chinese guys are confrontational. Maybe because you are a woman. But they are at times annoying. I hope you have truly seen China up to this point. It's not what you stated. Those theories exist in Taiwan and HK. But for the most part have been abandoned in China for self gain.
@@qazwsxq8135 haha. Many of actual intelligent individual were forced to the countryside back in the days. Basically, stripping them of all education. This resulting in famine and backwards ideology in the CCP history. No brain drain
@@Miguel-ly4bm quiet opposite actually. In past a few years, Taiwan and HongKong has become very confrontational , Mainland China has become more and more harmony. I can see the change time to time from each visit to China.
@@JohnDoe-gi7ty try living there. Things have changed. Nationalism is at an all time high. Plus a homogenize society. Then.... Nothing good can come of it
Nice girl good speech right now you’re still student haven’t gone into the society yet stay happy as you can for now when you get old enough can you understand the Westin democracy and government function you probably will be disappointed China I said the only big country in the world has continue civilization for 5000 years or maybe longer I wish you have some chances take a class of a Chinese history specially the last dynasty and the beginning of China unification then you know how lucky you are today as now as you are and other country besides your own you were put up with some racial discrimination and White supremacy that kind of pressure but good luck be happy
All of your “examples of collectivist propoganda” I see every day in America. You see we can hold individualism while still seeing ourselves as engrained in a collective society under a social contract.
I think one of the worst side effects of extreme collectivism is that it suck out the creativity out of many people. I've heard stories from western people teaching in Chinese schools. For example younger kids being completely puzzled when they could draw anything but they couldn't come up with any idea and didn't even seem to understand the task. The teacher repeated that they can draw anything, anything they would like to draw like a house or a leopard or really anything. And of course every single one of them ended up drawing a house or a leopard....
Love your work. You present a perspective that is more believable and relatable than western "propaganda" from the government and media (left and right)
Your videos can help bring understanding of China to Americans and help counter the western claims of China's ambition to take over the world.
Your efforts are important, and you're doing a good job. Keep it up.
Lets remember that Innovation REQUIRES a Competitive culture that loves to outdo EACH other for the sake of self gratification; which is essentially how we evolve progressively.
It's always a pleasure to learn about China. thank you.
She is a terrible source, she is clueless.
The way China handles coronavirus totally proves your point of collectivism. On this point I prefer China's way. But sometimes I think there could be more individualism than collectivism.
Individualism is good for innovation.
@@johnrockwell5834 there's good and there's bad
@@banja1470
A measure of individualism to maximize individual potential and then linking them up with others to form a better whole.
Family continuity is the foundation of society... When that falls apart - society falls apart.
Thank you so so much for sharing! I feel like I learned so much from this. Good luck in the rest of your travels!
The Kath Path thanks so much!
thanks, this actually gave me all the info I need for my presentation about collectivism in china
Same. Except that I wanted the info for a debate competition.
On the road to 1k subs!! Another dope vid, maybe you can at some point do another one more detailed on the education system because that's really interesting also because a lot of Chinese teens go to universities abroad
People need to realize though that most Eastern Asian cultures didn't just start becoming Collectivist because of Marx, Communism, or anything like that, they've had this type of culture for much longer. Trying to enforce our type of individualism is very foreign to them, because their brains just weren't wired that way. Even though Japan is a more free country, they still have what I call a "Corporate Collectivist mentality", meaning their whole lives revolve around honor and serving the corporations, giving them little free time to live as actual, individualistic humans. The proof is that most have no social life, have to rent friends/family, pay people just to make them remember what showing emotions is like, and die from overworking.
My English teacher is using this video for our Listening test -_- thanks a lot
I know this video 2 years ago but chinese culture is surprisingly similar to Arabic culture, I had to deal with the exact situations in my life lol
That’s the secret sauce to Asian success in the west tho. They help each other out. You might call it collectivism but it’s just pragmatic and effective
It has its pluses and minuses. A lot of specifically East Asian societies are somewhat like the Borg, you are taught to think alike, act alike, serve either the government or corporation, have very little free time; etc. However, it's shown that it does diminish innovation, creativity somewhat, and overall sanity really. It's the reason they place so much emphasis on honor, respect for authority, and politeness. Like you said though, it's definitely smart in way, they see things in a more unified, holistic sense, which is why Asian culture like China have lasted so incredibly long.
Appreciate your objective view, every system has its own value.
Individualism is ESSENTIAL to innovation. Having the confidence that you as an individual can change the world. Having the courage to stand against the collective crowd and break the status Quo. Do you understand now why it's hard for them to innovate. Copying/Manufacturing established designs does well under collectivism NOT for innovation. Hence, China's current stagnation/low quality products.
Collectivism says that vegetables are good for you and forces you to eat vegetables, because they are good for you. Individualism says that vegetables may be good for you and you should probably eat them, but we will never force you to eat them. An example of collectivism in the U.S, is seatbelts. The government did some studies that showed that seat belts saved lives. The government told the people that seat belts saved lives, but the people were not willing to pay extra to have seat belts installed in their cars. Individuals made the decision that they just did not want to pay extra for seat belts. Well, the government thought that the people were stupid for not paying extra for seat belts, so the government passed a law that forced auto manufactures to install seat belts for the collective good of the stupid people who didn't want to pay extra for seat belts. Then the government told the people that there would never be a law to force them to wear the seat belts that the government had forced auto manufactures to put into cars. Then the government passed a law that allow police to stop you and tell you that you should be wearing your seatbelt. And, now a cop can stop you and give you a ticket for not wearing a seat belt that you never wanted in the first place. Under individualism, the government would have done nothing about seat belts. If you want to have them installed and use them, fine. If not, fine. With collectivism the government will slowly make laws that control every aspect of your life -- for your own good, of course.
wow, you and i share the same brain? i have been thinking about the connection between collectivism and confucianism too and it all starts to make sense about how Chinese and asians think and behave in a society.
How did they feel about the detainment camps?!
In dealing w/ COVID -19 , COLLECTIVISM seems to work better .
It would help if you elaborated on that point of view. It's like me saying that in dealing with COVID-19 - INDIVIDUALISM seems to work better. You're not adding anything of value to the conversation.
@@leighharwood916 i think op is referring to the vaccination and mask wearing hesitancy. When it's individualistic, individuals can decide for themselves if they want to vaccinate, wear masks or not without caring about the community. But in a collectivistic society, caring about the community means you'll wear masks and be vaccinate regardless if you personally want to or not because collectivism prioritizes the whole over the self.
@@VocaFan4ever This is why the ancient conflict between individualism and collectivism is fundamentally irreconcilable. Collectivists believe that the group is more important than the individual and that the individual must sacrifice their own freedom or happiness for the benefit or sake of the group. As you put it, the whole must be prioritized over the self.
Individualism holds to the belief that the individual is more important than the group and that the group itself doesn't really exist. It's not metaphysically real. A group is simply a mathematical concept of the mind which represents more than one person. Thus, all you're really talking about are individuals.
Again, the same principle must be applied to the so-called 'community'. It's just other people!
Furthermore, I would advance the case that individuals are primarily driven be self-interest - even the collectivists who 'claim' to be concerned about others. If any man or woman has to choose between saving their life or the life of a stranger - they will choose their life. SELF-INTEREST!!
Nobody cares about the 'community' because the imaginary community is simply composed of strangers. These are people we bear no harm or ill-will towards, but are nevertheless strangers. In other words, we have no emotional investment in them like we would a family member or close relative. This is common sense.
You stated "you'll wear masks and vaccinate regardless...........". This implies coercion against the individual and the right to live their own life and stand on the judgement of their own mind. This is not only immoral, but evil in my estimation.
Collectivism is inherently all about coercion - because the philosophy doesn't recognize the individual only the group dynamic of serving the greater good. But there is a big problem with the so-called 'GREATER GOOD'! As individuals, we each have a different understanding and concept of what the 'greater good' constitutes. One man's idea of heaven can be another man's idea of hell and so the whole idea breaks down straight away.
Human beings can rarely agree on anything. Just look at the history of the human race i.e. war, political and social conflict/change, etc I COULD GO ON FOREVER AND AT NO POINT WILL A PICTURE OF THE GREATER GOOD EMERGE.
It would be more accurate to say that people have ideas about the 'greater good' and in most cases - they try and impose those ideas on others because they believe in the inherent virtue of their own morality!
are you active on any other social media? Wanna see more updates.
I have an instagram linked on my channel page! Not a toonn of updates on there either but more than here...
Pretty much the same all over Latin-america ad well. Especially in Guatemala which is the most collectivisitic culture in the world according to Hofstede.
That's really interesting - I think because China is technically "communist" people focus on its collectivism so much more, but it's definitely not unique to them. That explains why aspects of Latin America felt so familiar when I lived there!
Please make a video comparing the "best" university in China to the best school in the USA.
You're legit my favourit youtuber, why are u so cool omd iefhwuhfujh
Sam Quitua yooo thank you!!
@@michellezhang7275 Hi Michchelle Zhang, Actually i just Discovered your Channel A black wanted living Cleveland Ohio Your So Beautiful and Interesting Honestly, i always wanted to move to China its my Dream.
I wonder about the personal interest and personality of individuals in a collectivistic society. How do they deal with that? There must be some sort of individuality even there right?
Not really, but then again, they don't know any differently, for most it is natural and normal in most east Asian cultures. In Japan for instance, people are so devoted to their jobs and companies, that they literally rent fake gfs and family members; etc. just to create the illusion of a social life, because society there doesn't allow for much of a social life. So much of life there is regimented, planned out, structure; etc. which of course has it's positives, but they have virtually no free time as we know it. I learned that from Japanese friends I made here in the United States. It's hard for us to understand it, but that's just how they live.
Also, I can only assume that there is really no such thing as loneliness in a collectivist society compared to an individualistic one. I love some aspects of both.
I was raised a collectivist in an individualistic culture rip.
Trust me it's not as great as it sounds. Unless you basically want to just become a number in society unable to make any decisions of your own. Would you like to be like a Borg in Star Trek lol?
@@tommyrex6648 True, I just realised it recently. I still would prefer something in the middle.
So China’s education system is similar to Harry Potter’s Hogwart’s? And the principal is Dumbledore?
hey! omg i hope u can respond. i need to write about an event in China's history that helped shape them into being collectivistic. could i talk about the cultural revolution, the great leap forward, or Mao Zedong? i dont know what to write about ... HELP
Collectivism is all about control,
Good video, very informative.
Your content is great!
What are saying the psychologists psychatrists about this, in China?
I guess some things they don't agree with.
Did you leave minerva?
China is not a collectivistic system. In actual collectivism the collective itself decides on the rules that govern the collective. In China there is a very small subset of the collective, the party, that decides the rules for the collective.
Maybe Chinese people are collective oriented but that is abused and distorted by the party. China is greatly advised to get rid of it and become an actual collective without a ruling class. Like bees or ants. ... But that than is a locally operating democracy. Which does not exists on this planet currently
Besides any functional collective needs unconditional freedom of speech to even see the solution space to any problem they face. Since China does not have this the collective can not even see optimal solutions let alone decide on them.
You forgot about hedonism. It's rampant in China. The CCP collectively decides for the greater. You forgot about the different tiers for the gaokao. Different cities and countryside. Why do countryside kids have to score higher than city kids? Again, forgot about the family registration. Only does who are city folk can go to the best public schools. Countryside are not allowed. Thus, creating private education. Too expensive for the majority.
Chinese guys are confrontational. Maybe because you are a woman. But they are at times annoying. I hope you have truly seen China up to this point. It's not what you stated. Those theories exist in Taiwan and HK. But for the most part have been abandoned in China for self gain.
因为怕本地人才流失，你考在本省分数肯定不高
@@qazwsxq8135 haha. Many of actual intelligent individual were forced to the countryside back in the days. Basically, stripping them of all education. This resulting in famine and backwards ideology in the CCP history. No brain drain
@@Miguel-ly4bm quiet opposite actually. In past a few years, Taiwan and HongKong has become very confrontational , Mainland China has become more and more harmony. I can see the change time to time from each visit to China.
@@JohnDoe-gi7ty try living there. Things have changed. Nationalism is at an all time high. Plus a homogenize society. Then.... Nothing good can come of it
like your videos!!!!
Would be great to SEE some of the differences in addition to hearing a lecture.
Nice discussion :-)
Nice girl good speech right now you’re still student haven’t gone into the society yet stay happy as you can for now when you get old enough can you understand the Westin democracy and government function you probably will be disappointed China I said the only big country in the world has continue civilization for 5000 years or maybe longer I wish you have some chances take a class of a Chinese history specially the last dynasty and the beginning of China unification then you know how lucky you are today as now as you are and other country besides your own you were put up with some racial discrimination and White supremacy that kind of pressure but good luck be happy
Are you an ABC?
2 words Uyghurs
Falun Gong
All of your “examples of collectivist propoganda” I see every day in America. You see we can hold individualism while still seeing ourselves as engrained in a collective society under a social contract.
You have been missed!
emmamorley aww!! 💕❤️💕
This SUCKS!!!