his channel is actually way better content than any major companies that cover the nba! no drama, real analytics. about time nba gets some real stuff out
NBA and ABC did not keep the HD broadcasts from this season. But someone put up the finals on "Internet Archive" a few years ago (I downloaded this very HD file on there myself). You can too: "Full D-VHS Tape #1 - ABC 2004".
YEAH thats the first thing I thought when this video started. It's really cool to see it in HD, I remember watching this series as a kid on a little 4:3 Sanyo CRT TV in my Grandparent's living room and that's how its existed in my brain ever since.
Falling into a 8-0 hole early on against Detroit back then was like going into a 30-0 hole today against a good team and you would still have a better chance coming back to win it today.
RIP (Rip is his nickname not dead) Hamilton is so underrated just watching him move with out the ball and how hard you had to work to keep up with him if you think Steph, Ray and Reggie were the only players moving with out the ball you need to check him out and give him his flowers one of my favourite NBA players.
Watching Detroit's defense is like poetry in motion. Call me a boomer, but I preferred watching that kind of defense than today's offense. When every basket is hard to achieve - you learn to appreciate it more!
That's not boomer - that's loving the REAL game of basketball. The modern NBA has no defence, travels are allowed, baskets just don't seem to have any value, its just a rush to see who can bomb the most 3's. No positions, everyone has a similar skillset. Today's game is PATHETIC in comparison, its barely basketball now and a STRUGGLE to watch.
I agree I liked that style of game better... But I appreciate both eras. So watching this it's really interesting to see the shots the Pistons are living with are basically the shots today's offensive game plans are hunting for. Teams today would be torching this defense with corner 3's and swing passes. That's not to say the Pistons wouldn't be good against today's players but it would be very interesting to see how a defense like theirs would adjust to today's play style. I think they would be uniquely good in this era too. Ben Wallace would be one of the few centers from that era who could survive having to switch on to point guards and getting out to the 3 point line to defend. Which you really can't say about even some of the best teams from that era. Nobody would be able to stop Shaq, for example. But Shaq had trouble switching out to the free throw line against Mike Bibby and the Kings...Shaq would be a defensive liability in today's game. This Pistons defense was so dominant it kind of makes me wonder if they had an outsized impact on how offenses were designed. I remember the Spurs really making a point of emphasis of that corner 3 around the same time as this. I can't really remember if they were doing that when David Robinson was there. In my mind it didn't happen until after Robinson retired and if that's actually the time line I have to wonder if Pop was watching these Finals and literally scheming up how to beat these Pistons. Pop emphasizes swing passes and corner 3's, sprinkle in some Phoenix Suns 7 seconds or less, heavy dose of Steph Curry and the Warriors, maybe a pinch of James Harden and the Rockets... and now we have today's offense all because of this defense? Probably not, but still.
It's not a boomer thing, it's real basketball. Try watching Euroleague, much tougher and chess-like basketball that the NBA run'n'gun. I miss this old NBA...
this defense wont work in today's nba, almost every player now can shoot. This defense relies heavily on inability of the offense to shoot, you cant just leave guys open now. Today's nba is more intricate and the offense has much more weapons to use because of the added skillset (especially in shooting), you cant defend like this or you'll get punished.
@@00Mindi00 I totally get where you’re coming from, but I think it’s important to recognize why the physicality and intensity of defense that teams like the 2004 Pistons showcased is tough to replicate in today’s NBA. The rules have changed significantly, prioritizing player safety and allowing for more offensive flow. This means that what was once considered tough defense might now lead to fouls or penalties that can disrupt the game. Today's players are incredibly skilled, but the emphasis on spacing and pace has shifted the focus away from traditional defensive tactics. Teams are often built around versatility, meaning players have to guard multiple positions rather than just focusing on physical matchups. The game is definitely more about strategy now, which can sometimes look less intense than those classic defensive battles. Also It's not just a "rush" to shoot; it requires a high level of strategy, teamwork, and skill. So while nostalgia for that physical style is understandable, the current game has its own intensity and challenges that require different kinds of skills and teamwork. It’s just a different era of basketball.
What a great close up of an iconic team. This is a great video to send to your friends that say "defense is just about effort". There's so much skill, anticipation, IQ, and scouting that's involved. Achieving a great defense is probably the most complicated and nuanced aspect of team building, and that Detroit team is the benchmark for what a great defense looks like. In the words of Larry Brown, the '04 Pistons are a testament to "playing the right way".
Good defense IS just effort. Look at Dallas. Specifically Luka and Kyrie. Simply showing up is 80% of it. But _GREAT_ defense requires technique, scouting, anticipation, etc. Great defense is way way more than just effort.
Do the same type of thing but for the 89 pistons. They only allowed 100 points twice all postseason, in an era where the pace was far higher than the 2000's. What they did in a time when the nba had never seen the slow paced, physical defensive oriented style was historic. Them being so dominant and winning back to back with their style is the reason the 90s and 2000s became the dead ball era. Every team started adopting their principals, and they really changed the game and launched the dead ball era.
He's already made a podcast about the '89 Pistons. You won't like the deduction that the team winning had much more to do with the defense than Isiah leading the offense nonetheless. He explains how people are unable to believe that a team was capable of beating Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's Bulls without a superstar on its roster, hence people foolishly giving Zeke more credit than he was responsible for.
Dude the original bad boys pistons are notorious, if you get to the paint then laimbeer will clothesline the zhiyet out of you, and you wont be able to do fancy dribbles cause zeke thomas will choke the zhiyet out of you.
@@tonj02 yup! The bad boy piston ushered in the Knicks physical defense of the early mid 90’s which then started to be copied across the league by mid late 90’s. In addition, the Cavs of the mid 90’s played a super slow pace game which also was copied by the rest of the league
One thing about this Pistons team was their deep bench. Hunter was a genius defender who could guard and bother bigger players (him and Rasheed are among the best I've seen among players without defensive selections). Hunter and Mike James were named 'Pitbulls' due to their peskiness and physicallity on the defensive end. Campbell was a great defensive big off the bench. Williamson was a big guy who caused problems on the post and gave them good offense and Okur was not only big and tough, he was also an offensive threat with his long range shooting. Overall, a deep, well coached defensive roster.
@@randyholliday5626 you are correct, however considering their defensive ability that output was enough to get the job done lol. Those bench players played pivotal roles and games to get them to the finals in any case.
@@randyholliday5626 Yet, a team with Kobe,Shaq,Payton and Malone scored 75, 99(OT), 68, 80 and 87 points against the Pistons. The 04 Pistons was not a great offensive team by any means, they won with their defense and their bench was filled with defensive specialists.
What this video does so well is show both how well the Pistons played and were, but also how the Lakers' choices and personnel (and their skills) meant they couldn't counterpunch. As Ben notes, the Lakers, like Payton, couldn't punish the doubles by taking and making 3s. It also underscores how in this era, you *can't* have a weak link. Back then, you could. Lastly, the Pistons were ahead of their time. They had the length, the scheme, and the players to switch and rotate. Similar to how the teams of today *have* to have those things.
lmfao are you kinding me? in this era most players are weak links the only reason its not seen that way is cause the refs are so lax on the offensive players they get all the calls and the defenses hands are basically tied with all the bullshit calls. this erw would never be able to hang with that type of defense and it wouldnt matter how well they would be able to shoot 3's this ear could take 1 miss and completely shift the momentum into their favor and that is huge.
@@F1nalB0zz Having 4 or 5 legit shooters would really hamper these Pistons' ability to shut teams down. The reason they were so successful here is because the rules had changed just two years earlier to allow for zone defense. This is when post-ups became inefficient. It would take the league a full decade to adjust.
The 2004 Eastern Conference Finals was part of the reason why we had more movement towards the offense. It's easy to forget but the Pacers were the second best defesnive team that year and the Pacers and Pistons had scores like... 70 to 68. The NBA hated it, the viewers hated it, and it started a long trend towards favoring the offense.
Absolutely, that series was madness. One of my favorites, but certainly not very entertaining for a lot of NBA fans who want to see basket after basket and more offense. Things changed drastically after the 2004 playoffs.
This was the most Impactful series on me as a kid. As a blazer fan I naturally hated the lakers and I was a big fan of Ben Wallace and had become a Detroit fan as well. So seeing them shame the lakers in 5 games after everyone picked the lakers to win will be hard to top as my favorite NBA memory
for a lot of people. because it proved team basketball always wins. always. lakers had the 2 best players in the league but were dominated. absolutely dominated. the pistons would have swept if not for the kobe 3.
it was the best. they gave up 84.3 - equal with the spurs. their opponents shot 41.3% - 3rd best while 3pt was 30.2% - the best. spurs pistons finals in 04 would have been awesome.
I absolutely LOVE these watch-a-longs. Its so cool to get so much context instead of just breaking down a single possession or series. And of course, Ben is always a joy to listen to. Perfect mix of fun and insightful. Please keep these coming
Ben Taylor doing a deep dive into my '04 Pistons is an early Christmas gift to me! Love his content and glad to see him getting a feature on the official NBA channel. More videos with this kind of in-game breakdown analysis would be everything I need in life
I always thought it was funny how Detroit got and kept Lindsey Hunter that year in all their deals. First, he got traded to the Pistons from the Raptors before the regular season started. Then he got traded away in the Rasheed Wallace deal. After that he gets let go by whoever and signed as a free agent by Detroit like a week later.
@@_Maxten I just looked it up: He went from making 3.8 mil in 02-03 with the Raptors to making 3.0 mil in 03-04 with the Pistons. In 04-05 he was still with the Pistons but at 1.6 mil. The team that released him in the Rasheed Wallace trade was the Celtics IIRC. Hunter also played in Detroit when he started in the NBA. He was there for like his first 7 seasons or something. And then he was there for another 5 seasons after the championship year.
I'm glad you called out the hunting of Shaqs weak defence. You often read he was the only one to show up in this series for the Lakers but only on the offensive side of the court.
And even then his offense, like, good stats, sure, but not something you'd want to be the foundation of your scoring. Slowing things down plays into the hands of a good defense
@@Alex-tx6byI would absolutely want Shaq to be the foundation of my offense. He constantly fights for position and passes the ball back until he gets the best position he can get to attack, potent passer, and demands so much attention that not only the center but the PF of the opposing team is glued on him away from the ball as well, freeing space for his teammates. The entire league was "slowed down" in the early to mid 2000s, that argument doesn't hold a candle to Shaq.
@@TiagoGomez-hb9teWith all due respect that comment is idiotic; Shaq would be a monster today, nobody would have an answer for him he’d be dunking on everyone left right and center.
Would really enjoy a breakdown of Tayshaun locking up Kobe. Also interersted in how Prince couldnt check Wade due to rule changes and Wade's much more explosive first step/explosivness in 2005+06
to think wade scored 40 against the pistons the following year in the ecf. that was probably the highest individual points they allowed to a single player
One key component of their bench you missed was the addition of Mike James as a second guard. He was also a total bulldog defensively and the combo of him and Linsey almost always completed discombobulated the opponent's offense. Made up for the fact that whatever meager offense the Pistons had would stall out with the bench.
Awesome to see this video. '04 Pistons is one of my favorite teams of all time! I've always thought of this team as a perfect example of the sum being greater than their parts. As awesome as the individual players were, their team was even greater. Case in point: they beat this Lakers team with four hall of famers.
I'm teaching my 4th grader how to defend. If he can play defense then he will be far ahead of most kids because all kids want to do is dribble and shoot.
@@DrKnowNothing1 Haha we talked about thas last night after his practice. He is very fast but a slow dribbler so I told him to focus on getting open and catch/shoot/pass to the open man. Let the little dribble heads be pg. He's a off guard.
Defense not really a skill. Luck you have physical advantages over person. As seen how bad bam gobert ad look vs jokic. Nurkic does better job. But 4th grade so its meaningless besides important father son time
I think the important thing to note is this Lakers team is similar to the Westbrook laker team of a few years ago where they sacrificed shooting for star power. Derrick Fisher, Rick Fox, and Robert Horry were some of the best shooters in the league at that time and they prioritized getting Karl Malone and Gary Payton who were not elite shooters. Robert Horry revolutionized the game as really the first winning player to play the stretch 4 position three and the best Laker teams actually had 4 shooters and Shaq on the floor almost at all times. They chose to give that spacing up. It's not like it didn't exist and nobody could shoot in that era. They changed the formula for the star power and it didn't work. Pistons took advantage and props to them.
I’ve watched all of the 2004 and 2005 NBA Finals, and this video’s title has both meanings working. No one could score against the Pistons and no one could score for the Pistons. Ben Wallace putting up 8 points one game felt like he dropped 30
Wallace wasn’t known for his offense he was the defensive anchor and like previously mentioned there was plenty of guys on the pistons that could get buckets
Ben Wallace used to be everywhere defensively. His usual highlights show his blocks but Ben used to get lots of steals & pick up guards with ease in his prime.
Would love more discussion of the schematic differences in defenses before/after the 2002 rule changes. At 10:09, Hamilton does something that would be illegal just a few years earlier by guarding empty space below the free-throw line (i.e., not guarding a man but floating defensively in anticipation of Kobe’s drive). Seems like the Pistons were the first team to figure these concepts out (formalized later by Thibs and the Celtics). I’ve seen footage of 80s/90s teams getting away with illegal defense, but it seems like surprisingly few teams quickly pivoted to it after it became legalized. The freedom of movement rules were as much a reaction to zone legalization and the relative inelasticity of shooting talent as anything else. The years between zone legalization and the “pace-and-space era” are really interesting because of these attempts by the league to fine-tune the game. It’s a topic that could easily fill a 30+ minute video.
Yeah, I think it took some time after zone defense was legalized to realize that it didn't just enable the zone- you see it here with some of the massive sags- since you no longer have to show an iota of respect to non-shooters you can play some pretty radical (for their time) help concepts. I think Thibs brought that front and center and player development started to catch up after a few years where it became expected that if you're a role player, you had better be able to shoot. The big lesson ended up being, removing illegal defense didn't necessarily bring about zones (defensive 3 seconds kinda prevents some zones from being used effectively anyway) as the primary defense like Euroleague, but it did bring about zone-like defensive schemes and pick and roll coverages.
@@PanzehVideos That part of the game(sagging off) has always been subjective as the definition of illegal defense always seemed to change. In 90s games, I've seen guys sagging off like that during an entire game and not being called for Illegal defense and I've seen guys being called for doing a lot less. The 1996 Sonics ran a very similar style of defense to these Pistons's team, most of the time pushing the boundaries that illegal defense set. I mean, at what point you're not guarding your man anymore? The refs called what they wanted to call from game to game lol. Another thing was spacing. With the spacing of the 90s and 80s, guys could sag off or play hybrid zones without totally leaving their man, since the spacing was so poor at times. You're right about the 3 seconds defensive rule defangling zones, which is why we don't see much of it, mainly in today's game when almost everyone shoots 3s.
@@davidschmidt227 Oh, absolutely, the comical thing about illegal defense was watching Luc Longley run to the top of the 3 point line and then start pointing when his man doesn't see him pop out and stays in the lane.
@@PanzehVideos Lol. Illegal defense led to some comical scenes, no doubt. I bet 99% of people didn't know what it was. I've watched hundreds of games and I still don't fully understand it lol.
@@davidschmidt227 There was also actually an illegal offense rule as well- essentially if you had a player below the free throw line on one side of the court, you weren't allowed to have the other four players on the weak side- it was instituted in 1989 to try to nerf Jordan.
@@SueSonStray Considering your brain thrives on 30 second instant gratification clips, his comment makes sense. No need to get emotional, formula baby.
@@joebenson528 I said THIS IS NOSTALGIC. Sure I should’ve specified what is nostalgic for you clowns. I was referring to the team…That wasn’t just playing together in 04… They kept going. A reminder that nostalgia isn’t logical. I’ve been to Sheed’s house multiple times as a kid.. I had a signed Mr. Big Shot jersey.. It felt good to see them. That’s all.
Excellent excellent video man! Top tier work. I agree w everything u said. I was 19 years old for this hosting parties in my parents garage w 30 people every game. The time of my life. This team was even better than a superfan at the time like me remembers.
You sound goofy. They call Kobe the head of the snake in this series and stopped HIM let Shaq and the other HOF guys shoot snd choke them outta the series and it worked
Even if they do, the game will be nothing like it was in '04 due to modern spacing. Defenses were able to cheat off their man to overload on the focal point of the offense. Now if you do that you're leaving a sniper wide open on the perimeter to make you pay for it, back then you were leaving a 37% mid range shooter open, the trade-off was worth the help defense, now it doesn't.
People say too much defense back then but I think that’s wrong. I think there isn’t enough defense now. What created some amazing performances and shots from Jordan and Bryant was the defense. They had to adapt. I’d rather see an 80-78 game with some amazing shots then a 140-138 game where every makes jumpers and threes
Lakers should've put Fisher in earlier, Fisher is a much better 3pt shooter than Payton at this point. Payton at this point couldn't do much. Payton never got comfortable in the triangle. Piston knew how to attack the triangle because Brown coached Iverson's 76ers against this Shaq/Kobe Lakers team, he knew this team well. So sweet he got his revenge
we talk about how bad spacing was, particularly in the 2000s. but we don't talk about it on the defensive side. The 04 pistons might be one of the first to utilize all 5 guys on defense while the offense is still only utilizing 2-3 guys at a time. I stopped on one play and it's so obvious how poor the offensive iq was. 3:34 shaq is doubled and karl malone is unmarked. Yeah hes not gonna pop out and hit a 3 on a swing pass, but he could still receive the ball where he's at and force the defense to break the double on shaq. He could also rotate and post up on the block. He could go stand in the dunker spot which would open shaq up on the baseline.
I think some of this was specifically the 04 lakers too but yes I was shocked as well. The 20 year difference between this and today’s game is crazy. Makes you wonder when & how the game will flip back to the other side of the ball.
For real after golden state in 2015 people started bringing in shooters making outside shots more reliable to create more for inside shots making better offense
Great video breakdown. Larry Brown’s Pistons did a GREAT job exposing the Lakers deficiencies: -Lakers lack of depth -Poor Athleticism (2nd oldest team in the league) -Poor Shooting (near the bottom league wide)
I never watched basketball all that much but I remember these games were aired at the time and the Pistons were my favorite team to watch lol. They were the only team where I knew the names of all the players on the team.
I'm suprised that the pistons holding teams under 70 points was not mentioned in this video and the pistons held the lakers under 70 points in game 3 of the 2004 nba finals.
it's important to note that it wasn't just that they had great starting 5... but that they're bench was also very phenomenal. And one of the reasons they didn't repeat was cause after this season a lot of their bench (e.g. Okur) left the next year for bigger contracts (this run got a lot of players paid).
@@Beem530 I said ONE of the reasons, not "the only reason". Also McDyess wasn't a good replacement for the dudes they lost because he wasn't a good defender. The reality was they got slightly weaker. The Spurs did get better... so who knows if it would have made a difference. If they had drafted Melo though... sigh.
I appreciate this video and your insights! I’d like to emphasize, opposing teams always double-teamed Shaq. Not on every possession, but after a couple fouls and a couple allowed-dunks, the double team was coming. The lifeblood of the Laker’s half-court offense, relied on this. When the double-team came, Shaq could pass it out, and with a couple passes around the perimeter, a quality open shot would be taken. This would get everyone involved, everyone going. Without the double-teaming of Shaq, the supporting Lakers players would not get an infusion of open shots, and Kobe would get impatient and take ill-advised shots from distance. I think this is the reason Shaq was traded away.
You really can see how the NBA was less skilled back then in SOME aspects. Non 3 shooting guards, people getting hand offs and going up at the rim right and not using the left thus getting wrecked by the shot blocking. Great game, defence was absolutely dialed with the help on drives in terms of getting hands into the dribble lane.
U forgot to mentioned the lack of offball movement, and the moment they did, it literally create an open shot opportunity at 23:10 Jokic would've pass it to DFish for the open 3
Lol. Today offense wouldn't do anything but cry. You're pretending they would have zero days to game plan for it. Every rebound is going to Detroit. Every single one. No one is making 3s over tashaun prince. And no one is shutting down Rasheed Wallace . Sorry, youre wrong
@randyholliday5626 Not quite the same Pistons. The 06-07 Pistons team that the Cavaliers beat in the playoffs didn't have Ben Wallace (the best defender on the 03-04 team) or Larry Brown (Hall of Fame coach).
I'm a huge Lakers fan but an even bigger Basketball fan. Removing the emotions I felt when the Lakers lost this series, I can truly say THAT Detroit Pistons team was VERY special! It was lightning in a bottle!
Yeah,I was a Laker fan also,but,knew the Pistons would win,they were so-HUNGRY-for a chip that year and played defense like it. LA were a team full of egos and disfunction ( Kobe's rape trial/case-him and Shaq still beefing about silly &&&& and the supporting guys wanted shots/recognition ) and last but not least no team in nba history has ever won 4 nba titles in a row.
Aside from Great Defense the opposing teams lack offensive skills like today too. Wouldn't have to worry much defending the perimeter, they're always going under which packs the paint.
The 3pt% is almost the same from 2004 (34%) and 2024 (36%). The volume of the shooting from outside increased, not the skill. They don't shoot that much better now, they just shoot more
@@pandsanthi9072 not true at all. The difficulty and variety of 3pt shots are way higher now. If guys took the same type of static shots like they used to, the % would be way higher.
@@praneshj1578 teams are designed differently today. Now most of them die for the 3pt, that's why we have more variety in this part of the game. But even with this in mind, the percentage is almost the same, and this is a fact. The players are not more skilled, they just speciallized in a different aspect of the game. And coinsidering the %, the majority is not even that good in this I personally believe this is counterproductive for most of the teams. Denver for exemple takes less 3pt shots and is arguably the best team in the league without a single all star besides the Joker. This shows the level of skill most teams are right now
The early 2000s was coming off the illegal defense rule change so most of the league was still built more for one on one defense. Not committing to a double team and leaving guys half open to put extra pressure on the ball was against the rules, so outside shooting wasn't as important. Like, if they changed the rules now then the next 5 years would be crazy because nobody can guard one on one and they rely on the extra pressure from help defenders.
Can't believe that the NBA is finally working with a genuine basketball analyst, instead of hiring loud talking heads who couldn't do the simplest play-by-play analysis if their lives were on the line, so they just defer to creating or echoing dumb narratives & goofy content to entartain their low-IQ viewers. This is the high-level basketball talk that true fans of the game have been eager to get.
13:18 luke walton praying for a quick pass to shoot a 3 that he been practicing all year just for kobe to put up that BS....LMAO THIS KOBE LORE IS REALLY STARTING TO FADE AWAY CUZ WTH....Luke was making that 3.....
I remember just watching the Lakers give up in game 5 and it was so satisfying but Kobe always gave up when he knew he was about to lose the Celtics in 08 the Spurs in the playoffs... The Dallas Mavericks did it to them too he was the first to visibly give up and the team followed, and you would always get some crazy blowout as the final score
Pistons defense was great. But all Lakers really needed was some good spacing. Replace Payton and Malone with a shooting PG and a stretch 4 and things get much more open for Kobe and Shaq. With those two on the court,you can't do much. They lacked shooting.
They were used to putting it all on Kobe and Shaq then. DET with the size and toughness of Ben and Rasheed and the length and high IQ of Prince, Rip and Billups and Brown and everyone running their schemes to a T really exploted LA's weakness. And even Jacksons hubris to an extent.
Pistons would have gotten their rematch against the spurs in 2007 if they still got Big Ben, but they lost the series to future Lakers superstar Lebron James who led the Cavaliers to elimination of Detroit in 6 games of the eastern conference finals
@@nikosvault Malone getting injured in game three of the finals wasn't the reason the Lakers lost, kobe averaged more points, rebounds, and assists in 2004 vs 2003, and bench production wasn't an issue when the Lakers lost 5 games total in the first three rounds of the playoffs and won 56 regular season games.
Phil only knew triangle offence, which is an offence he didn't even create either lol, 1 dimensional coach. The only game the lakers won they had kobe playing the point.
So glad the NBA has our boy on here doing these videos. His channel is also very good.
What’s his channel?
@@miatikaThinking Basketball
his channel is actually way better content than any major companies that cover the nba! no drama, real analytics. about time nba gets some real stuff out
Best channel
"our boy"
Something a sus anime profile picture would say.
I don't think I've ever seen the broadcast footage of this Finals in HD before. Looks amazing
Bastards keeping in archive best videos, and they dont wanna share it
NBA and ABC did not keep the HD broadcasts from this season. But someone put up the finals on "Internet Archive" a few years ago (I downloaded this very HD file on there myself). You can too: "Full D-VHS Tape #1 - ABC 2004".
YEAH thats the first thing I thought when this video started. It's really cool to see it in HD, I remember watching this series as a kid on a little 4:3 Sanyo CRT TV in my Grandparent's living room and that's how its existed in my brain ever since.
@@nickwilkinsmusicyou know NBA HQ got all the film in pristine quality
Did you not watch it in 04? It was broadcast in HD lol
Falling into a 8-0 hole early on against Detroit back then was like going into a 30-0 hole today against a good team and you would still have a better chance coming back to win it today.
Supposedly the greatest duo in history threw up 5 bricks in a row and 2 turnovers. 100% was not because of the defence
@@shaharazad.LMAO Muhammad acting like he knows hoops. Curry fan huh
@@shaharazad.Muslimcel
@@shaharazad. then what was it because of?
@@rockysalvatore435Trash
The 04 Pistons are the most underrated team ever in my opinion.
Not really, most underrated would probably be that team that beat MVP Dirk
@@S3verusMyG the 8th seed warriors? They lost in 5 to the Jazz in the second round not underrated at all
ngl they kinda are no hacking or fouling just great defense they don't have much offense outside of a few guys but still a great team
11 Mavs
18 warriors tbh
The nba actually posted a Thinking basketball video??? Nice!
He’s been working making videos for the nba pretty recently
He’s been here quite a while already.. You can check some vids back..
Right I love these tho no lie
@@Jason-ld3ggWhat’s with your PFP?
Yea 😂, and celebrating defence too
RIP (Rip is his nickname not dead) Hamilton is so underrated just watching him move with out the ball and how hard you had to work to keep up with him if you think Steph, Ray and Reggie were the only players moving with out the ball you need to check him out and give him his flowers one of my favourite NBA players.
I've always liked Rip! Especially in his Uconn days!
Middy assassin
Rip was smoother than all of them
daily reminder that Hamilton is NOT actually dead
@@Nocxys that was his Nick name what are you talking about nobody said he was dead? Chauncey had a nickname (Mr Big Shot) as well like seriously 😂
Watching Detroit's defense is like poetry in motion.
Call me a boomer, but I preferred watching that kind of defense than today's offense.
When every basket is hard to achieve - you learn to appreciate it more!
That's not boomer - that's loving the REAL game of basketball. The modern NBA has no defence, travels are allowed, baskets just don't seem to have any value, its just a rush to see who can bomb the most 3's. No positions, everyone has a similar skillset. Today's game is PATHETIC in comparison, its barely basketball now and a STRUGGLE to watch.
I agree I liked that style of game better... But I appreciate both eras. So watching this it's really interesting to see the shots the Pistons are living with are basically the shots today's offensive game plans are hunting for. Teams today would be torching this defense with corner 3's and swing passes.
That's not to say the Pistons wouldn't be good against today's players but it would be very interesting to see how a defense like theirs would adjust to today's play style. I think they would be uniquely good in this era too. Ben Wallace would be one of the few centers from that era who could survive having to switch on to point guards and getting out to the 3 point line to defend. Which you really can't say about even some of the best teams from that era. Nobody would be able to stop Shaq, for example. But Shaq had trouble switching out to the free throw line against Mike Bibby and the Kings...Shaq would be a defensive liability in today's game.
This Pistons defense was so dominant it kind of makes me wonder if they had an outsized impact on how offenses were designed. I remember the Spurs really making a point of emphasis of that corner 3 around the same time as this. I can't really remember if they were doing that when David Robinson was there. In my mind it didn't happen until after Robinson retired and if that's actually the time line I have to wonder if Pop was watching these Finals and literally scheming up how to beat these Pistons. Pop emphasizes swing passes and corner 3's, sprinkle in some Phoenix Suns 7 seconds or less, heavy dose of Steph Curry and the Warriors, maybe a pinch of James Harden and the Rockets... and now we have today's offense all because of this defense? Probably not, but still.
It's not a boomer thing, it's real basketball.
Try watching Euroleague, much tougher and chess-like basketball that the NBA run'n'gun.
I miss this old NBA...
this defense wont work in today's nba, almost every player now can shoot. This defense relies heavily on inability of the offense to shoot, you cant just leave guys open now. Today's nba is more intricate and the offense has much more weapons to use because of the added skillset (especially in shooting), you cant defend like this or you'll get punished.
@@00Mindi00
I totally get where you’re coming from, but I think it’s important to recognize why the physicality and intensity of defense that teams like the 2004 Pistons showcased is tough to replicate in today’s NBA. The rules have changed significantly, prioritizing player safety and allowing for more offensive flow. This means that what was once considered tough defense might now lead to fouls or penalties that can disrupt the game.
Today's players are incredibly skilled, but the emphasis on spacing and pace has shifted the focus away from traditional defensive tactics.
Teams are often built around versatility, meaning players have to guard multiple positions rather than just focusing on physical matchups. The game is definitely more about strategy now, which can sometimes look less intense than those classic defensive battles. Also It's not just a "rush" to shoot; it requires a high level of strategy, teamwork, and skill.
So while nostalgia for that physical style is understandable, the current game has its own intensity and challenges that require different kinds of skills and teamwork. It’s just a different era of basketball.
What a great close up of an iconic team. This is a great video to send to your friends that say "defense is just about effort". There's so much skill, anticipation, IQ, and scouting that's involved. Achieving a great defense is probably the most complicated and nuanced aspect of team building, and that Detroit team is the benchmark for what a great defense looks like. In the words of Larry Brown, the '04 Pistons are a testament to "playing the right way".
Good defense IS just effort. Look at Dallas. Specifically Luka and Kyrie. Simply showing up is 80% of it.
But _GREAT_ defense requires technique, scouting, anticipation, etc. Great defense is way way more than just effort.
Communication
Its a different type of Bag
Do the same type of thing but for the 89 pistons. They only allowed 100 points twice all postseason, in an era where the pace was far higher than the 2000's. What they did in a time when the nba had never seen the slow paced, physical defensive oriented style was historic. Them being so dominant and winning back to back with their style is the reason the 90s and 2000s became the dead ball era. Every team started adopting their principals, and they really changed the game and launched the dead ball era.
He's already made a podcast about the '89 Pistons. You won't like the deduction that the team winning had much more to do with the defense than Isiah leading the offense nonetheless. He explains how people are unable to believe that a team was capable of beating Magic's Lakers, Bird's Celtics and Jordan's Bulls without a superstar on its roster, hence people foolishly giving Zeke more credit than he was responsible for.
@@SteveCrimialMindsFan Their defense was great and Isiah was awesome but their offense was really really good too
So many scorers on that team!
Dude the original bad boys pistons are notorious, if you get to the paint then laimbeer will clothesline the zhiyet out of you, and you wont be able to do fancy dribbles cause zeke thomas will choke the zhiyet out of you.
@@truthtruth9056 Actually the dude with the infamous clothesline was Kevin McHale
@@tonj02 yup! The bad boy piston ushered in the Knicks physical defense of the early mid 90’s which then started to be copied across the league by mid late 90’s. In addition, the Cavs of the mid 90’s played a super slow pace game which also was copied by the rest of the league
4:06 RIP Mr. Stuart Scott
This Pistons team was incredible defensively. They had all the versatility needed to win a championship and they delivered.
One thing about this Pistons team was their deep bench. Hunter was a genius defender who could guard and bother bigger players (him and Rasheed are among the best I've seen among players without defensive selections). Hunter and Mike James were named 'Pitbulls' due to their peskiness and physicallity on the defensive end. Campbell was a great defensive big off the bench. Williamson was a big guy who caused problems on the post and gave them good offense and Okur was not only big and tough, he was also an offensive threat with his long range shooting. Overall, a deep, well coached defensive roster.
Hunter could go off for 50
@@KB8KillaLindsey Hunter averaged 3.6ppg in the 2004 NBA finals
Deep?The entire Pistons bench averaged 14.6 ppg in the the 2004 finals the leading scorer off the bench averaged 4.9ppg they couldn't score for shit!!
@@randyholliday5626 you are correct, however considering their defensive ability that output was enough to get the job done lol. Those bench players played pivotal roles and games to get them to the finals in any case.
@@randyholliday5626 Yet, a team with Kobe,Shaq,Payton and Malone scored 75, 99(OT), 68, 80 and 87 points against the Pistons. The 04 Pistons was not a great offensive team by any means, they won with their defense and their bench was filled with defensive specialists.
What this video does so well is show both how well the Pistons played and were, but also how the Lakers' choices and personnel (and their skills) meant they couldn't counterpunch. As Ben notes, the Lakers, like Payton, couldn't punish the doubles by taking and making 3s. It also underscores how in this era, you *can't* have a weak link. Back then, you could.
Lastly, the Pistons were ahead of their time. They had the length, the scheme, and the players to switch and rotate. Similar to how the teams of today *have* to have those things.
lmfao are you kinding me? in this era most players are weak links the only reason its not seen that way is cause the refs are so lax on the offensive players they get all the calls and the defenses hands are basically tied with all the bullshit calls. this erw would never be able to hang with that type of defense and it wouldnt matter how well they would be able to shoot 3's this ear could take 1 miss and completely shift the momentum into their favor and that is huge.
@@F1nalB0zz Having 4 or 5 legit shooters would really hamper these Pistons' ability to shut teams down. The reason they were so successful here is because the rules had changed just two years earlier to allow for zone defense. This is when post-ups became inefficient. It would take the league a full decade to adjust.
@@johnnykilroy3026except the Spurs who worked them the next year 😢
If rasheed doesnt fall asleep on an inbound passer, than Pistons win back to back. @Beem530
@@sauldula don't fault the Spurs for bad defense. There's a reason Timmy D is the goat PF
The 2004 Eastern Conference Finals was part of the reason why we had more movement towards the offense. It's easy to forget but the Pacers were the second best defesnive team that year and the Pacers and Pistons had scores like... 70 to 68. The NBA hated it, the viewers hated it, and it started a long trend towards favoring the offense.
Absolutely, that series was madness. One of my favorites, but certainly not very entertaining for a lot of NBA fans who want to see basket after basket and more offense. Things changed drastically after the 2004 playoffs.
People complain about no defence being played now but that happened because people hated how slow the 2000s were
Same with the Nets series. The first game was 78-56! 56!!!!!
@@aidanklobuchar1798Bruh!!!
I would take good defense over good offense anytime. But I understand it’s bad for business.
This was the most Impactful series on me as a kid. As a blazer fan I naturally hated the lakers and I was a big fan of Ben Wallace and had become a Detroit fan as well. So seeing them shame the lakers in 5 games after everyone picked the lakers to win will be hard to top as my favorite NBA memory
for a lot of people. because it proved team basketball always wins. always. lakers had the 2 best players in the league but were dominated. absolutely dominated. the pistons would have swept if not for the kobe 3.
Great breakdown! This Detroit team is one of my favorite teams in history.
Detroit's defense was one of the best I saw in 03-04. Ben Wallace was awesome.
it was the best. they gave up 84.3 - equal with the spurs. their opponents shot 41.3% - 3rd best while 3pt was 30.2% - the best. spurs pistons finals in 04 would have been awesome.
Should have won mvp
Pistons should have won it all that year
6:50 i wish the NBA used this camera angle alot more, gives you a great idea on the spacing on the court
Love seeing Ben and Thinking Basketball being posted by the NBA. His analysis and breakdowns friggin rule
This is awesome stuff, a pleasure to watch and actually informative. Hats off, great content.
This was my childhood. Thank you for bringing back these incredible memories!
Soooo glad to see Thinking Basketball on the NBA channel. HUGE W for the NBA, this guy can explain basketball better than anyone. Great video.
I absolutely LOVE these watch-a-longs. Its so cool to get so much context instead of just breaking down a single possession or series. And of course, Ben is always a joy to listen to. Perfect mix of fun and insightful. Please keep these coming
One big feature of this team was rip Hamilton. He could run a 4 minute mile and chasing him around the court would wear his man out.
Literally running circles all gm
Such a smoother jumper
These are the type of vids I always wanted on nba tv I wanna see great ball knowledge people break down the game in any era
This series was the best I’ve seen defensively from a team. Against the Lakers even. Thanks for covering this. You’re voice sounds familiar
Ben Taylor doing a deep dive into my '04 Pistons is an early Christmas gift to me! Love his content and glad to see him getting a feature on the official NBA channel. More videos with this kind of in-game breakdown analysis would be everything I need in life
I always thought it was funny how Detroit got and kept Lindsey Hunter that year in all their deals.
First, he got traded to the Pistons from the Raptors before the regular season started.
Then he got traded away in the Rasheed Wallace deal.
After that he gets let go by whoever and signed as a free agent by Detroit like a week later.
Luck or strategy? Lmao
I think they had to make a rule after that 😂😅
@@giveadont also i wonder whst rhe pay differential was between those contracts
@@_Maxten
I just looked it up:
He went from making 3.8 mil in 02-03 with the Raptors to making 3.0 mil in 03-04 with the Pistons. In 04-05 he was still with the Pistons but at 1.6 mil.
The team that released him in the Rasheed Wallace trade was the Celtics IIRC.
Hunter also played in Detroit when he started in the NBA. He was there for like his first 7 seasons or something. And then he was there for another 5 seasons after the championship year.
I'm glad you called out the hunting of Shaqs weak defence. You often read he was the only one to show up in this series for the Lakers but only on the offensive side of the court.
And even then his offense, like, good stats, sure, but not something you'd want to be the foundation of your scoring. Slowing things down plays into the hands of a good defense
@@Alex-tx6byI would absolutely want Shaq to be the foundation of my offense. He constantly fights for position and passes the ball back until he gets the best position he can get to attack, potent passer, and demands so much attention that not only the center but the PF of the opposing team is glued on him away from the ball as well, freeing space for his teammates. The entire league was "slowed down" in the early to mid 2000s, that argument doesn't hold a candle to Shaq.
@@SteveCrimialMindsFan Nah, the league was babying Shaq so hard back then. He wouldn’t be that good now…
@@SteveCrimialMindsFan you don't get it. this game is the Lakers vs the future
@@TiagoGomez-hb9teWith all due respect that comment is idiotic; Shaq would be a monster today, nobody would have an answer for him he’d be dunking on everyone left right and center.
This was such a great breakdown, that 04 Pistons team was so deep.😊
Awesome video, thank you. Brings back good memories as a pistons fan
Would really enjoy a breakdown of Tayshaun locking up Kobe. Also interersted in how Prince couldnt check Wade due to rule changes and Wade's much more explosive first step/explosivness in 2005+06
Lol smh
to think wade scored 40 against the pistons the following year in the ecf. that was probably the highest individual points they allowed to a single player
FTs. Lol
Same way Wiggins locked up tatum
One key component of their bench you missed was the addition of Mike James as a second guard. He was also a total bulldog defensively and the combo of him and Linsey almost always completed discombobulated the opponent's offense. Made up for the fact that whatever meager offense the Pistons had would stall out with the bench.
Larry Brown ran the floor against Phil Jackson as well. He was 9-0 in the Finals as a coach and got demolished by Brown.
Awesome to see this video. '04 Pistons is one of my favorite teams of all time! I've always thought of this team as a perfect example of the sum being greater than their parts. As awesome as the individual players were, their team was even greater. Case in point: they beat this Lakers team with four hall of famers.
I'm teaching my 4th grader how to defend. If he can play defense then he will be far ahead of most kids because all kids want to do is dribble and shoot.
Teach him to love defense too not just defense itself
And to love the off-ball movement on offense. Only 1 out of 5 gets to ball at a time…
@@DrKnowNothing1 Haha we talked about thas last night after his practice. He is very fast but a slow dribbler so I told him to focus on getting open and catch/shoot/pass to the open man. Let the little dribble heads be pg. He's a off guard.
Defense not really a skill. Luck you have physical advantages over person. As seen how bad bam gobert ad look vs jokic. Nurkic does better job. But 4th grade so its meaningless besides important father son time
Teach him Effort first then break down defensive techniques
I think the important thing to note is this Lakers team is similar to the Westbrook laker team of a few years ago where they sacrificed shooting for star power.
Derrick Fisher, Rick Fox, and Robert Horry were some of the best shooters in the league at that time and they prioritized getting Karl Malone and Gary Payton who were not elite shooters. Robert Horry revolutionized the game as really the first winning player to play the stretch 4 position three and the best Laker teams actually had 4 shooters and Shaq on the floor almost at all times. They chose to give that spacing up. It's not like it didn't exist and nobody could shoot in that era. They changed the formula for the star power and it didn't work. Pistons took advantage and props to them.
I’ve watched all of the 2004 and 2005 NBA Finals, and this video’s title has both meanings working. No one could score against the Pistons and no one could score for the Pistons. Ben Wallace putting up 8 points one game felt like he dropped 30
Hamilton, Billups and Sheed could all put 20 a game easy
Wallace wasn’t known for his offense he was the defensive anchor and like previously mentioned there was plenty of guys on the pistons that could get buckets
@@surgeyibrahimovic5013not against San Antonio
Their defense did get "exposed" when they faced aggressive wing scorers like Ginobili and Wade that likes to attack the rim
@@shamsielshahar120 well winger players like ginobiili had wide open shots and more 1 on 1 opportunities because they were keyed in on Duncan so much.
Pure basketball... When 🏀 was at its finest!!!
Ben Wallace used to be everywhere defensively. His usual highlights show his blocks but Ben used to get lots of steals & pick up guards with ease in his prime.
Would love more discussion of the schematic differences in defenses before/after the 2002 rule changes. At 10:09, Hamilton does something that would be illegal just a few years earlier by guarding empty space below the free-throw line (i.e., not guarding a man but floating defensively in anticipation of Kobe’s drive). Seems like the Pistons were the first team to figure these concepts out (formalized later by Thibs and the Celtics). I’ve seen footage of 80s/90s teams getting away with illegal defense, but it seems like surprisingly few teams quickly pivoted to it after it became legalized. The freedom of movement rules were as much a reaction to zone legalization and the relative inelasticity of shooting talent as anything else. The years between zone legalization and the “pace-and-space era” are really interesting because of these attempts by the league to fine-tune the game. It’s a topic that could easily fill a 30+ minute video.
Yeah, I think it took some time after zone defense was legalized to realize that it didn't just enable the zone- you see it here with some of the massive sags- since you no longer have to show an iota of respect to non-shooters you can play some pretty radical (for their time) help concepts. I think Thibs brought that front and center and player development started to catch up after a few years where it became expected that if you're a role player, you had better be able to shoot.
The big lesson ended up being, removing illegal defense didn't necessarily bring about zones (defensive 3 seconds kinda prevents some zones from being used effectively anyway) as the primary defense like Euroleague, but it did bring about zone-like defensive schemes and pick and roll coverages.
@@PanzehVideos That part of the game(sagging off) has always been subjective as the definition of illegal defense always seemed to change. In 90s games, I've seen guys sagging off like that during an entire game and not being called for Illegal defense and I've seen guys being called for doing a lot less. The 1996 Sonics ran a very similar style of defense to these Pistons's team, most of the time pushing the boundaries that illegal defense set. I mean, at what point you're not guarding your man anymore? The refs called what they wanted to call from game to game lol. Another thing was spacing. With the spacing of the 90s and 80s, guys could sag off or play hybrid zones without totally leaving their man, since the spacing was so poor at times. You're right about the 3 seconds defensive rule defangling zones, which is why we don't see much of it, mainly in today's game when almost everyone shoots 3s.
@@davidschmidt227 Oh, absolutely, the comical thing about illegal defense was watching Luc Longley run to the top of the 3 point line and then start pointing when his man doesn't see him pop out and stays in the lane.
@@PanzehVideos Lol. Illegal defense led to some comical scenes, no doubt. I bet 99% of people didn't know what it was. I've watched hundreds of games and I still don't fully understand it lol.
@@davidschmidt227 There was also actually an illegal offense rule as well- essentially if you had a player below the free throw line on one side of the court, you weren't allowed to have the other four players on the weak side- it was instituted in 1989 to try to nerf Jordan.
Any video on the goin to work pistons is always a W
I did not expect thinking bball to break down an 04 pistons game. Great job!
Born in ‘99 and from the West Side of Detroit 🥹 This is nostalgic
You were literally 5 years old you can barelly remember..
@@westside-qe3yq Imagine telling somebody what THEY remember…
@@SueSonStray
Considering your brain thrives on 30 second instant gratification clips, his comment makes sense. No need to get emotional, formula baby.
@@joebenson528calm down
@@joebenson528 I said THIS IS NOSTALGIC. Sure I should’ve specified what is nostalgic for you clowns. I was referring to the team…That wasn’t just playing together in 04… They kept going. A reminder that nostalgia isn’t logical. I’ve been to Sheed’s house multiple times as a kid.. I had a signed Mr. Big Shot jersey.. It felt good to see them. That’s all.
Please keep doing these!!! I love this breakdown.....
i guess u could say The triangle worked for phil in the era when there was no zone defense
Excellent excellent video man! Top tier work. I agree w everything u said. I was 19 years old for this hosting parties in my parents garage w 30 people every game. The time of my life. This team was even better than a superfan at the time like me remembers.
10:50 is why Kobe should NEVER be in serious consideration for GOAT. His ego was so bloated and he hurt his team so much with it
You sound goofy. They call Kobe the head of the snake in this series and stopped HIM let Shaq and the other HOF guys shoot snd choke them outta the series and it worked
@realjcoop182 you didnt get it
@@realjcoop182part of the gameplan was to let Kobe’s ego take over and relentlessly chuck
Love thinking basket ball. The NBA TH-cam channel making some 🔥 decisions bringing them in
More of this type of video pls
Best defense ever, I loved watching every minute of this iconic playoff run!
The 04 Pistons were a deep team also a great
Defensive team.
bro pls do the 2nd half. that game was crazy and the breakdown was on point
The details in this video 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I rate this. Well done NBA. I tapped-out after 12mins (5 unskippable ads DURING was just too much)
CAN THE NBA GO BACK TO THESE RULES!!!!
How would Jason Tatum score?
@@khrisstake2210 He would score easily, I think the NBA should go to FIBA rules
No they can't. They don't score as much so it's less entertainment 🤣
@@silewis9396 Since they've made the game all about international players might as well use FIBA rules except for the ball in the cylinder one.
Even if they do, the game will be nothing like it was in '04 due to modern spacing. Defenses were able to cheat off their man to overload on the focal point of the offense.
Now if you do that you're leaving a sniper wide open on the perimeter to make you pay for it, back then you were leaving a 37% mid range shooter open, the trade-off was worth the help defense, now it doesn't.
People say too much defense back then but I think that’s wrong. I think there isn’t enough defense now. What created some amazing performances and shots from Jordan and Bryant was the defense. They had to adapt. I’d rather see an 80-78 game with some amazing shots then a 140-138 game where every makes jumpers and threes
Lakers should've put Fisher in earlier, Fisher is a much better 3pt shooter than Payton at this point. Payton at this point couldn't do much. Payton never got comfortable in the triangle. Piston knew how to attack the triangle because Brown coached Iverson's 76ers against this Shaq/Kobe Lakers team, he knew this team well. So sweet he got his revenge
This was probably one of the best ways to break down this series. I like that he pointed out the positives from the Lakers as well.
we talk about how bad spacing was, particularly in the 2000s. but we don't talk about it on the defensive side. The 04 pistons might be one of the first to utilize all 5 guys on defense while the offense is still only utilizing 2-3 guys at a time. I stopped on one play and it's so obvious how poor the offensive iq was. 3:34 shaq is doubled and karl malone is unmarked. Yeah hes not gonna pop out and hit a 3 on a swing pass, but he could still receive the ball where he's at and force the defense to break the double on shaq. He could also rotate and post up on the block. He could go stand in the dunker spot which would open shaq up on the baseline.
13:18 is also brain dead moment
Karl Malone could barely walk in that series. I think it was a break or a bad spraim but he played through because he knew he was retiring
I think some of this was specifically the 04 lakers too but yes I was shocked as well. The 20 year difference between this and today’s game is crazy. Makes you wonder when & how the game will flip back to the other side of the ball.
Excellent!
Everyone that loves and studies the game must watch...and learn!
this era of the nba was soooo rough offensively my lord
…because of the lack of shooters?
Lack of skill
then allen iverson came in and set up for these new tuff ball handlers
For real after golden state in 2015 people started bringing in shooters making outside shots more reliable to create more for inside shots making better offense
@@PBandJJJJJas well as different ruleset and best players were inside scorers i.e. Shaq, timmy , etc.
Great video breakdown. Larry Brown’s Pistons did a GREAT job exposing the Lakers deficiencies:
-Lakers lack of depth
-Poor Athleticism
(2nd oldest team in the league)
-Poor Shooting (near the bottom league wide)
'04 Pistons are soo underrated
I never watched basketball all that much but I remember these games were aired at the time and the Pistons were my favorite team to watch lol. They were the only team where I knew the names of all the players on the team.
I'm suprised that the pistons holding teams under 70 points was not mentioned in this video and the pistons held the lakers under 70 points in game 3 of the 2004 nba finals.
Same! Wasn't it something like kept opponents to under 100 points for 30 games straight and under 70 for 10 straight?
@@bigheadbearman 6 straight
Their scoring differential was only 6.5ppg they were barely scoring 90 on the other end!!
@randyholliday5626 that was on purpose
@@khrisstake2210 nah they just couldn't score why the hell would you praise a team only allowing 70 when they are barely scoring 80?
I'm a simple man, I see a video of Ben talking about the '04 Pistons, I click
it's important to note that it wasn't just that they had great starting 5... but that they're bench was also very phenomenal. And one of the reasons they didn't repeat was cause after this season a lot of their bench (e.g. Okur) left the next year for bigger contracts (this run got a lot of players paid).
Lol they got Antonio McDyess the following year that's crazy talk. The just got beat by a better Spurs team, plain and simple.
@@Beem530 I said ONE of the reasons, not "the only reason". Also McDyess wasn't a good replacement for the dudes they lost because he wasn't a good defender. The reality was they got slightly weaker. The Spurs did get better... so who knows if it would have made a difference. If they had drafted Melo though... sigh.
I appreciate this video and your insights!
I’d like to emphasize, opposing teams always double-teamed Shaq. Not on every possession, but after a couple fouls and a couple allowed-dunks, the double team was coming.
The lifeblood of the Laker’s half-court offense, relied on this. When the double-team came, Shaq could pass it out, and with a couple passes around the perimeter, a quality open shot would be taken. This would get everyone involved, everyone going.
Without the double-teaming of Shaq, the supporting Lakers players would not get an infusion of open shots, and Kobe would get impatient and take ill-advised shots from distance.
I think this is the reason Shaq was traded away.
You really can see how the NBA was less skilled back then in SOME aspects. Non 3 shooting guards, people getting hand offs and going up at the rim right and not using the left thus getting wrecked by the shot blocking. Great game, defence was absolutely dialed with the help on drives in terms of getting hands into the dribble lane.
U forgot to mentioned the lack of offball movement, and the moment they did, it literally create an open shot opportunity at 23:10 Jokic would've pass it to DFish for the open 3
Love the camera angles and the quantity 😮
Todays offense will score on this defense 100%
Agreed
To many options for open threes
This defense would suck today 😂
Lol. Today offense wouldn't do anything but cry. You're pretending they would have zero days to game plan for it. Every rebound is going to Detroit. Every single one. No one is making 3s over tashaun prince. And no one is shutting down Rasheed Wallace . Sorry, youre wrong
@@kenw2225Lebron destroyed that pistons dunked all over sheed and tayshaun prince
@randyholliday5626 Not quite the same Pistons. The 06-07 Pistons team that the Cavaliers beat in the playoffs didn't have Ben Wallace (the best defender on the 03-04 team) or Larry Brown (Hall of Fame coach).
No
We need more video like this!
The Big Nasty didn’t even really have that much size on Bryant. He did have plenty of nasty though.
Love that the NBA is highlighting creators
Crazy meta back then. Pistons run a zone and the Nets beat shooter runs to the middle of it. Lol.
I'm a huge Lakers fan but an even bigger Basketball fan. Removing the emotions I felt when the Lakers lost this series, I can truly say THAT Detroit Pistons team was VERY special! It was lightning in a bottle!
Ben Wallace Aka modern day Bill Russell
Strength length and grit* best basketball ive ever seen and will never see again
Man this was painful to watch as a Laker fan.. hats off to Detroit though
Yeah,I was a Laker fan also,but,knew the Pistons would win,they were so-HUNGRY-for a chip that year and played defense like it. LA were a team full of egos and disfunction ( Kobe's rape trial/case-him and Shaq still beefing about silly &&&& and the supporting guys wanted shots/recognition ) and last but not least no team in nba history has ever won 4 nba titles in a row.
I found my new favorite nba channel.. good job
Aside from Great Defense the opposing teams lack offensive skills like today too. Wouldn't have to worry much defending the perimeter, they're always going under which packs the paint.
The 3pt% is almost the same from 2004 (34%) and 2024 (36%). The volume of the shooting from outside increased, not the skill. They don't shoot that much better now, they just shoot more
@@pandsanthi9072 not true at all. The difficulty and variety of 3pt shots are way higher now. If guys took the same type of static shots like they used to, the % would be way higher.
@@praneshj1578 teams are designed differently today. Now most of them die for the 3pt, that's why we have more variety in this part of the game. But even with this in mind, the percentage is almost the same, and this is a fact. The players are not more skilled, they just speciallized in a different aspect of the game. And coinsidering the %, the majority is not even that good in this
I personally believe this is counterproductive for most of the teams. Denver for exemple takes less 3pt shots and is arguably the best team in the league without a single all star besides the Joker. This shows the level of skill most teams are right now
The early 2000s was coming off the illegal defense rule change so most of the league was still built more for one on one defense. Not committing to a double team and leaving guys half open to put extra pressure on the ball was against the rules, so outside shooting wasn't as important. Like, if they changed the rules now then the next 5 years would be crazy because nobody can guard one on one and they rely on the extra pressure from help defenders.
@@praneshj1578 Man
Can't believe that the NBA is finally working with a genuine basketball analyst, instead of hiring loud talking heads who couldn't do the simplest play-by-play analysis if their lives were on the line, so they just defer to creating or echoing dumb narratives & goofy content to entartain their low-IQ viewers.
This is the high-level basketball talk that true fans of the game have been eager to get.
13:18 luke walton praying for a quick pass to shoot a 3 that he been practicing all year just for kobe to put up that BS....LMAO THIS KOBE LORE IS REALLY STARTING TO FADE AWAY CUZ WTH....Luke was making that 3.....
This was such a great breakdown!
The last time my favorite NBA team won a championship 😒
I remember just watching the Lakers give up in game 5 and it was so satisfying but Kobe always gave up when he knew he was about to lose the Celtics in 08 the Spurs in the playoffs... The Dallas Mavericks did it to them too he was the first to visibly give up and the team followed, and you would always get some crazy blowout as the final score
Pistons defense was great. But all Lakers really needed was some good spacing. Replace Payton and Malone with a shooting PG and a stretch 4 and things get much more open for Kobe and Shaq. With those two on the court,you can't do much. They lacked shooting.
They were used to putting it all on Kobe and Shaq then. DET with the size and toughness of Ben and Rasheed and the length and high IQ of Prince, Rip and Billups and Brown and everyone running their schemes to a T really exploted LA's weakness.
And even Jacksons hubris to an extent.
I love this content, I new in basketball and I love understand the tactics. Thanks!
Nothing easy, every point had to be earned. God do I miss this era where grown men did actually battle day in and day out.
This Detroit team was one my favorites to watch...a well oiled machine...
Why Shaq talks bad about gobert defense he didn't defend at all there
Great content about my favorite team ever! 😊
This is a video to show to people that says Kobe is the Goat.
I never even understood that argument anyway. Kobe is an all-time great, yes, but not the GOAT. That doesn’t take away from his greatness to say that.
Embodied the phrase "Defense wins championships"
Pistons would have gotten their rematch against the spurs in 2007 if they still got Big Ben, but they lost the series to future Lakers superstar Lebron James who led the Cavaliers to elimination of Detroit in 6 games of the eastern conference finals
4-6 finals record 😂
@@rafaelmeza725
Still 4 Championship which is lot better than 2-6 or 3-5 or
🤣
@@swarajthapa5798 6 losses is nothing to brag about bird brain 🤣🤡😂💯🙌 🐐goats don't lose period lmao 😂 🤣
And Pistons would have lost again to Spurs in 07
What a time to be a Pistons fan that was. Best five alive baby 🔥
Only reason Lakers don’t get swept is because of Kobe hitting a game tying 3 to send it to OT in game 2
This is why I get irritated when people bring up Kobe’s shooting percentage. The league was still physical when Kobe was at his best.
Man so many memories going to these games with the crew
No one talks about how Phil Jackson was throughly out coached by Larry brown. Zen master my ass!! F the laker and F the bulls!
Malone got hurt. Kobe was half the size of his 2003 frame. No bench.
@@nikosvault Malone getting injured in game three of the finals wasn't the reason the Lakers lost, kobe averaged more points, rebounds, and assists in 2004 vs 2003, and bench production wasn't an issue when the Lakers lost 5 games total in the first three rounds of the playoffs and won 56 regular season games.
Phil only knew triangle offence, which is an offence he didn't even create either lol, 1 dimensional coach. The only game the lakers won they had kobe playing the point.
@@dissaver kobe avg 30/6/7 in 2003. 24/5/6 in 2004.