I'm from Switzerland and I used to work in a Coffee Shop and it's totally true that coffee creme is the most popular coffee order. However, the younger generations are ordering more the classic Italian and Australian espresso beverages.
Yes I agree definitely the most popular coffee in Switzerland. Finally I have a recipe for my family as I only do espresso based shots with my machine. Although I'll have to try myself
Would love to hear your thoughts on this! Drop a comment so we can chat! And while you're at it, bonk that subscribe button and maybe hit the like if you enjoyed it! Thanks, friends
I'm really enjoying your channel You are bringing so much knowledge to the community! I also would like to see some more filter coffee content since I don't have enough money yet to get an espresso set up Thanks Lance!
Yooooo! This is tight! Always love to see what the industry is doing especially when it pushes the limits like this. Would love to see shops adopt this as a method of doing pour over!
Being Swiss I never realized all that. "Kafficreme" is something you hear a lot which is probably it since it translates to that. Getting into Espresso I was surprised that long shots are not commonly pulled like I had been used to from Swiss made full autos, that usually offer espresso, lungo and a big cup symbol. You learn something every day.
Café Crème is the standard Kaffeevollautomat (super automatic/bean to cup) coffee drink in Germany (with faux crema, not pulled in an espresso machine (Siebträgermaschine)). That's what people buy the machines for to upgrade from filter machines with preground coffee to freshly ground coffee.
I just tried this on my BDB and it worked perfectly. I only drink milk based coffee's but I would happily sip on this straight black. I put 15g in and got 150g out in around 85-90 sec mark. I turned it into an iced coffee and can guarantee this will now be my go to iced coffee recipe. Thank you!!!!
I don't have an espresso machine, but I'm thinking of trying to use my biggest moka pot with a course grind and to control the water flow. Using half the coffee amount I usually use. Nothing to lose but I really like the concept
@@ibrhyme Worth experimenting, but I would guess that too little coffee would allow the water to swirl it around and pass through clear spaces, not extracting all the coffee.
WOW! Whem I saw the video I thought that this was so strange and not so interesting but I trust you and I try without much confidence and...It works! I had a really nice spro-over. Very enjoyable! Thanks Lance!
Hmm. I live in Switzerland and can say that it depends where. Here in Ticino (Italian side) the cafe crema is not really seen. We have espresso (maybe 25-30g) or espresso lungo (maybe 40-50g) the same as in northern Italy. It’s true that north of the gotthard in German speaking Switzerland the cafe crema is pretty much the standard coffee. Here in Ticino a crema cafe is an iced smooth coffee flavoured thick refreshment eaten with a spoon
Great video! It just got me thinking, if it isnt' just recreating the moka pot method on an espresso machine. The pressure might be the same, grind size pretty similar as well and the longer extraction is there too. Just wondering what the difference would be side by side doing this method and a moka pot method. Thanks Lance!
This has water going thru the puck continuously with clean water and a lower temperature. Moka pot produces lots of crema from the steam due to boiling. This is much less oily, more vibrant, and more controllable.
The ratio for this is different to what I have typically been told to brew a moka pot at. I tried the ratio and timings in my moka pot and the result was really good. It definitely doesn’t have the texture of a filter coffee, but I don’t expect the result from an espresso machine would either (I’ll soon find out). The addition of an aeropress paper definitely helped the texture and removed sludge from the cup.
This is awesome! I can't keep up with my coffee exploration with Lance coming up with all these amazing contents. I'm still at the perfecting the silky milky 😅. Thank you 🙌! ☕ This brew method is great for people who's rushing all the time. 😁
Haven't tried the Spro-over, but now I have something to try this weekend. It may replace the americanos I make for my wife. It's amazing how many ways there is to make coffee and how you can go down the rabbit hole for each and every one. Great video as always, keep it up! Cant wait for some more videos with your DE1 XL.
Thank you! And more videos will come. I'm scared, at this early in my TH-cam life, to alienate potential viewers with videos on such a niche piece of equipment you know? But they will come!
I created a simple profile on my DE1. Fast fill that moves on at 2.5 bar. Then 1.5 ml/s until desired weight is reached. My first attempt was with Onyx Costa Rica Las Lajas Natural ground on a KafaTek MAX SLM, 18 grams in a 20 gram VST basket, BPlus screen on top, stopped at 144 grams. With the grind setting I was using, this creates about 2 bar for most of the shot. The time was around 100 seconds (determined by flow). I'm not sure this is what Lance had in mind for spro-over on the DE1, but it's a starting point.
This caffe crema style of coffee is popular all over europe, the Philips invented senseo pod machines that are very popular in the Netherlands create exactly these kinds of cups and nowadays the bean to cup machines are very popular here too
Just tried this, third-wave-water at 90*C, washed Perù medium roast, 15g coffee in, Niche Zero at 23, WDT, light tamp, 150g out in 45 seconds. Pretty bad result tastewise, need to try this again, it's a very interesting concept. How do your pucks look like after these shots? Mine was pretty devastated so I guess channeling and uneven extraction
Did you lower the water debit? I'd try to stretch the shot out to a minute or more. And should be a much more even extraction than finely ground coffee for the same reasoning as the paper I presented in the turbo shots video.
@@LanceHedrick I think you're right that's the point... unfortunately it's impossible to change the water debit on my machine (the preinfusion mode is max 5 seconds here, not 90 like on Breville). The water debit is 5ml/s on my Ascaso Dream PID
Depends on what you can an espresso shot! Technically espresso in the concentrated form with crema was a deviation, as I discuss in the history lesson here. How come that is valid, but this isn't? Lol
Usually the coffee community is very on point in coming out with new cool terms.... but "spro-overs"!!?? really?? Someone dropped the ball on this one. Can we just call it café crema 2.0 or something??? please??
I started watching Lance like 2 months ago (A sin, considering how long I've been into coffee and watching Hoffmann) and man, is it weird seeing him without the stubble in older content. He's completely different!
Barista in Melbourne here, you can still find cafe cremas in old school coffee places here. There's even some confusion in some of these places, where ordering a long black gets you a cafe crema. Which isn't always what people expect...
I think you can do sprover in the flair 58! With the new valve plunger, you can refill the chamber, gently pull the handle back up and continue the shot. I’ve tried this a few times, and it totally works. With the puck screen, I’m not worried about damaging the puck integrity
@@LanceHedrick Yea, I guess air does have to get in around the puck when the lever goes back up. I’m just hoping with the grind this coarse, the slight disturbances don’t matter as much as they would in normal 9-bar land
How comparable is this to an aeropress brew with the prismo attachment? The only espresso machine I have is the flair signature and while I love the shots I get from it, its brew chamber is just not big enough to contain that much water lol
I’m guessing this is the excuse I needed to do the dimmer mod on my gaggia classic ✌️😜 How’s about sometime in the future doing an episode on coffee in the wild or coffee outdoors geared around camping 🏕
@@Lucastoys17 taste is entierly subjective after all mate, I find coffee prepared this way to be delicious, easy, fast and convinient, so I see no downsides to it
Ive been pulling the original cafe crema for my wife for over 6 years. I just grind coarser and get a huge brew ratip in 25 seconds. She loves it. Last year I started playing with lower pressure and she likes it even more. It is her favorite straight blacl coffee drink!
Hi Lance, just came across this vlog. I can't get my Breville Infuser to pull this a shot over about 45 seconds that *isn't choking* the machine. I can get a 90 ml shot simply by grinder finer but it is quite watery and pulled in normal time about 30 seconds. Do I have to do the dimmer mod to enable the Infuser to pull such a long shot?
Sooo... if I wanted to emulate this style of drink with my Cafelat Robot whose basket/brew chamber will hold a maximum of a little over 80g of water on top of 15g of coffee, resulting in about 65g of liquid which I would have to dilute with another 70-80g of water to reach 1/10 coffee to water ratio, the resulting beverage would have to be named... a long spro-over? A lungissimo americano? An allongé élongué?...
First try was a big fail. A very nice Salvatorian coffee - med roast chocolate/wine bomb. 16gr in an 18gr basket. 2ml/sec for a 150gr coffee but grind too coarse. it come out chalky. I think temp was too hot around 93/4C. back to the drawing board. tomorrow, opening new doors. Thanks.
I tried this and the BDB gurgled the entire time then overheated and caused error codes 8 and 10. It’s a few months old. Any suggestions? It was delicious though. My flow rate was a bit lower than yours - I only got out 100g with 15g dose so was planning on increasing from 55pct to something higher.
Wow , so unorthodox. Maverick. Coarse, less temp, slow. Wow. Could you get something good out of the thirty dollar MUSA 5 bar or 6 bar no solenoid machine? I got it just to steam milk and liked it a few times using a Feld 47 pushed finely. I took notes on trying to get it to different places, but I forget the details now. I remember the interest in my thermometer of its output was just about the steam wand though and trying to skip using coffee was bad for some reason I forget also. (It was a 2020 phase when I tried anything inexpensive including alcohol stoves with turkish grind in a thing I used to melt butter.)
Thanks for the great video - this is new to me! You mentioned that the main difference from an Aeropress brew is that immersion is prevented and only percolation happens. Could you approximate this using an Aeropress with an extra filter on top of the grounds as a sort of "puck screen"? E.g. using the Prismo with a regular paper filter on the bottom, then the Prismo's metal filter (which allows no bypass) on top of the grounds, stopping them from floating up into the water in the chamber
No only because there is no way to eliminate the immersion aspect. An espresso machine can deliver clean water and give pressure same time. This isn't possible with the aeropress. You have to add the plunger and plunge seperately from adding water.
@@LanceHedrick I agree that you can't eliminate immersion with the Aeropress, so the method I have described would not totally replicate the spro-over. But my thinking was that with a second filter on top of the grounds, immersion will be greatly reduced because the grounds are only in contact with the water that is percolating through, and once that water has extracted some of the coffee via percolation it will have less remaining capacity to extract further via immersion. I am viewing the water which passes through the second filter (on top of the grounds) as corresponding to the added water. It's "added" in the sense that it has not yet been in contact with the grounds. My assumption is that the second/top filter above the grounds can completely separate the grounds and the remaining water. E.g., the Prismo's metal filter allows no bypass so I think it would work here. The regular paper filter wouldn't work well enough
Let's say you can adjust the pressure during the shot. Would you use just 1 bar and grind coarse, or grind a bit finer and increase the pressure to up to 2 bar to compensate?
Not quite. Very different, in fact. I can see how you'd think that, tho. This is controlling the steps with a dictated flow rate and thermal stability. The best moka pots pale in comparison both with taste and objective measurements. They simply extract differently.
Hey Lance @9:50 You said something about the 3d file of the wdt. I looked for it in the description and comments and I couldn't find it. It would be so nice if you could link it somewhere 🤩
I was literally just going to post a question about these - mostly because I haven't seen any videos by anyone on them. Roos Roast in Ann Arbor does a 'Long Pull' instead of a pour over and it's really nice on some of their coffees. Thanks for covert this. I think this is a pretty efficient drink for a cafe to make instead of a 3-4 min P.O.
Definitely, but a sprover still takes a good amount of time so needing to use a grouphead for like 1 min+ is less than ideal during the busy points of a coffee shop with a 2 group machine, it's only viable for a 3 grouphead I'd say
Sprovers are likely not ideal in shops since water debit needs to be changed. That being said the coffee shot matt perger outlines tastes great and can be pulled in 45 on stock machine!
Oh absolutely. Im sure it won't be long now, considering decent is focusing heavily on commercial. Soon, one of the big boys will step up with an easily modifiable flow profiling capability.
I think Perger did something similar for one of his routines years ago. Might be wrong. Whoops, just heard it mentioned in the video as I type this lol
I hope it tastes real good because it sure doesn't look pretty. But as they say "As long as the soup tastes good does it matter if the chicken was blind".
I just tried this today. Man was it tasty! 12g of beans, setting 6 on my Gaggia MDF grinder, 180ml at 2ml/s. I think it will become a permanent program on my machine.
I know this might sound stupid, but I only have a flair signature. The other day I wanted to know what it'd taste like to pull another shot with the same puck, it turned out pretty watery and a little bitter. Now I'm thinking of maybe doing it again and mixing it with the espresso for a (hopefully) better tasting americano. I like a longer coffee in the morning to sip but I've not been able to with the flair. Anyone have other ideas I can do with the flair?
Way different. Aeropress has a lot of immersion. This is like a percolation aeropress, if that makes sense. Fresh water goes in, coffee comes out, fresh in, coffee out. Aeropress is water in, one long push, so it turns into immersion
How does this compare to an aeropress? I have an idea how to modify an aeropress to do this if you could get a tamper, top screen and ideally a stand to fit the aeropress I think it would work. Is it worth it tho?
This is completely different from the aeropress in that the aeropress is majority immersion with some pressure. Whereas the sprover is percolation with pressure.
Hit both arrows at the same time on the menu. Time for pi will show up. Increase it to 90. And then hit menu and change the pump pressure percentage for pi. I measured water debit until I found 3ml/s
I tried this spro-over idea over the weekend with a Nanopresso + barista kit; 150gm water with 15gm beans. Got a funky yet tasty drink with crema, like it so much!
How about foregoing the portafilter itself and put grinds in a filter and put the filter (on top of a cup) below the grouphead? Oh btw Lance, since you have the slayer mod for a while, will the needle valve deteriorate as time goes on? Oh! Another note, I would be careful when running very long pre-infusions back to back as it can overheat the boiler. The moment the extraction starts, the steam boiler will heat up the brew water that passes through it as a heat exchanger before it goes to the brew boiler and to the grouphead. The longer the pre-infusion, the slower hot water flows and the heat will build up inside. That's why many users would get the flashing temp reading in the display thinking the machine is trying to heat up when it actually is overheating. One way I go around this is making sure to purge brew water at full flow after every extraction to bring in cooler water to the boilers.
I normally don't run preinfusion back to back like on the video. This was purely for showing a dial in. And the needle valve is fine! I know plenty who have had their machine modded for years with no signs of issues
I noticed this today with my BDB. I saw the temp flashing and thought wow I really cooled the boiler down with two cups and then I turned the machine off and on so I could see the water temp and the machine was actually at 98C when I had to set for 90. So what you are saying is definitely true. Run some water through between Sprovers. To keep that heat down.
btw if you have a dual boiler and don't want to have to keep changing the pre-infusion setting between espresso and spro-overs, just hold down the manual button and it stays in pre-infusion until you let go. obviously this means you have to hold the button for the whole spro-over but personally I like to watch my shots and monitor flow etc anyway
I kept asking myself what's the point pretty much throughout the video. I got to the end, I still don't see why I would do this (though I guess it might be something others may enjoy). I'll probably stick to espresso.
Why do you do espresso? That's the reason people do this haha! It has a higher clarity in taste, juicier, easier to drink at a fourth of the TDS, and no bitter crema. Also, it is interesting this beverage is more true to the original espresso. The modern espresso wasn't even made until 1948 when 9 bar was first used and commercialized for 30ml espresso. So, the point is really tasty coffee that rivals pourovers. Not to replace espresso, because that is a different beverage, but to have another beautiful iteration of a coffee.
the way I see it is: I don't really always want espresso, sometimes I want something more like filtercoffee, and this is really a very convinient, easy and fast way to achive a really well extracted high strenght cup of "filter coffee"
I'm from Switzerland and I used to work in a Coffee Shop and it's totally true that coffee creme is the most popular coffee order. However, the younger generations are ordering more the classic Italian and Australian espresso beverages.
Wow! So cool! Thank you for sharing friend!
Yes I agree definitely the most popular coffee in Switzerland. Finally I have a recipe for my family as I only do espresso based shots with my machine. Although I'll have to try myself
Haha! Nice. Excited to hear how it goes!
Not in Ticino. Only in ‘Svizzera interna’….
Would love to hear your thoughts on this! Drop a comment so we can chat!
And while you're at it, bonk that subscribe button and maybe hit the like if you enjoyed it! Thanks, friends
I'm really enjoying your channel
You are bringing so much knowledge to the community!
I also would like to see some more filter coffee content since I don't have enough money yet to get an espresso set up
Thanks Lance!
Also I like when you break my earbuds with your voice, I like the energy!
I will do loads more filter content. Just trying to switch stuff up with my interests. And I'm sure I won't be able to stay quiet for long!
Great video. I wasn't bothered by previous loudness though! I'm continuing to love your channel and as a Vario owner I'm stoked for that vid.
Yooooo! This is tight! Always love to see what the industry is doing especially when it pushes the limits like this. Would love to see shops adopt this as a method of doing pour over!
Low pressure, hot water, coarse grind and about 16gms all point to moka pot style brewing. How does this compare to a moka pot brew ??
As an Aussie it’s unusual how big of a role we play in modern coffee.
Lance is the anti James Hoffman and I love it! Would love to see these guys together. Like mixing coffee and Valium.
Oh geez. Hahaha! And I'm hoping to! James and I have talked about it. Trying to find a fun Collab idea
I like them both. He is just underrated
Thank you! Im just happy anybody is wanting to listen to me hahaha
@@LanceHedrick lol I love it!
The PG rated speed ball ! lmfao
Being Swiss I never realized all that. "Kafficreme" is something you hear a lot which is probably it since it translates to that. Getting into Espresso I was surprised that long shots are not commonly pulled like I had been used to from Swiss made full autos, that usually offer espresso, lungo and a big cup symbol. You learn something every day.
Café Crème is the standard Kaffeevollautomat (super automatic/bean to cup) coffee drink in Germany (with faux crema, not pulled in an espresso machine (Siebträgermaschine)). That's what people buy the machines for to upgrade from filter machines with preground coffee to freshly ground coffee.
So basically, a more elaborate and expensive moka pot brew?
I just tried this on my BDB and it worked perfectly. I only drink milk based coffee's but I would happily sip on this straight black. I put 15g in and got 150g out in around 85-90 sec mark. I turned it into an iced coffee and can guarantee this will now be my go to iced coffee recipe. Thank you!!!!
I don't have an espresso machine, but I'm thinking of trying to use my biggest moka pot with a course grind and to control the water flow. Using half the coffee amount I usually use.
Nothing to lose but I really like the concept
Definitely! I'd be interested in hearing your results.
Is using a big moka pot with half amount of coffee and water good idea for normal grind size?
@@ibrhyme Worth experimenting, but I would guess that too little coffee would allow the water to swirl it around and pass through clear spaces, not extracting all the coffee.
I really want to call this style the Espressover
That is such a better name, tbh
Isn't this just a moka pot?
It should REALLY be called Espressover
Totally agree. Sprover is a disgusting name. When I heard it for the first time my subconscious said "I am not trying this ever"
Side note: Spro-over or sprover is one of the worst names I've ever heard. It somehow sounds incredibly disgusting.
Hahahahaha! Don't shoot the messenger! Lol
I agree, tho
WOW! Whem I saw the video I thought that this was so strange and not so interesting but I trust you and I try without much confidence and...It works! I had a really nice spro-over. Very enjoyable! Thanks Lance!
Hmm. I live in Switzerland and can say that it depends where. Here in Ticino (Italian side) the cafe crema is not really seen. We have espresso (maybe 25-30g) or espresso lungo (maybe 40-50g) the same as in northern Italy. It’s true that north of the gotthard in German speaking Switzerland the cafe crema is pretty much the standard coffee. Here in Ticino a crema cafe is an iced smooth coffee flavoured thick refreshment eaten with a spoon
Great video! It just got me thinking, if it isnt' just recreating the moka pot method on an espresso machine. The pressure might be the same, grind size pretty similar as well and the longer extraction is there too. Just wondering what the difference would be side by side doing this method and a moka pot method. Thanks Lance!
This has water going thru the puck continuously with clean water and a lower temperature. Moka pot produces lots of crema from the steam due to boiling. This is much less oily, more vibrant, and more controllable.
The ratio for this is different to what I have typically been told to brew a moka pot at. I tried the ratio and timings in my moka pot and the result was really good. It definitely doesn’t have the texture of a filter coffee, but I don’t expect the result from an espresso machine would either (I’ll soon find out). The addition of an aeropress paper definitely helped the texture and removed sludge from the cup.
Fantastic!
Looking back on this new, you really have come a long way sir. Congratulations on your continued success
This is awesome! I can't keep up with my coffee exploration with Lance coming up with all these amazing contents. I'm still at the perfecting the silky milky 😅. Thank you 🙌! ☕ This brew method is great for people who's rushing all the time. 😁
Thank you! I really appreciate you sticking around with the support. You rock!
Grinding on a niche around what range would you say you'd be in? Great video as always Lance!
Around 22-25! And thank you!
Beat me to it… 👍
Haha!
Haven't tried the Spro-over, but now I have something to try this weekend. It may replace the americanos I make for my wife. It's amazing how many ways there is to make coffee and how you can go down the rabbit hole for each and every one. Great video as always, keep it up! Cant wait for some more videos with your DE1 XL.
Thank you! And more videos will come. I'm scared, at this early in my TH-cam life, to alienate potential viewers with videos on such a niche piece of equipment you know? But they will come!
I created a simple profile on my DE1. Fast fill that moves on at 2.5 bar. Then 1.5 ml/s until desired weight is reached. My first attempt was with Onyx Costa Rica Las Lajas Natural ground on a KafaTek MAX SLM, 18 grams in a 20 gram VST basket, BPlus screen on top, stopped at 144 grams. With the grind setting I was using, this creates about 2 bar for most of the shot. The time was around 100 seconds (determined by flow). I'm not sure this is what Lance had in mind for spro-over on the DE1, but it's a starting point.
Oh yes! Very much in mind. I like fast fills and low flows. Sounds like a tasty shot! Also, I want your grinder 🤣
This caffe crema style of coffee is popular all over europe, the Philips invented senseo pod machines that are very popular in the Netherlands create exactly these kinds of cups and nowadays the bean to cup machines are very popular here too
Is this possible on a lever machine like a flair58 or a pavoni? There is a limit to amount of water you can get into the group…..
Just tried this, third-wave-water at 90*C, washed Perù medium roast, 15g coffee in, Niche Zero at 23, WDT, light tamp, 150g out in 45 seconds. Pretty bad result tastewise, need to try this again, it's a very interesting concept. How do your pucks look like after these shots? Mine was pretty devastated so I guess channeling and uneven extraction
Did you lower the water debit? I'd try to stretch the shot out to a minute or more. And should be a much more even extraction than finely ground coffee for the same reasoning as the paper I presented in the turbo shots video.
@@LanceHedrick I think you're right that's the point... unfortunately it's impossible to change the water debit on my machine (the preinfusion mode is max 5 seconds here, not 90 like on Breville). The water debit is 5ml/s on my Ascaso Dream PID
Oh there are mods to control that debit for your machine! Lol if you're willing 🤣
I guess the only thing I could do is turning the pump off and on again each few seconds haha
Don't do that lol. It'll ruin the puck. Lol
Its like the "espresso" that peoples that dont know what's an espresso shot is are doing
Depends on what you can an espresso shot! Technically espresso in the concentrated form with crema was a deviation, as I discuss in the history lesson here. How come that is valid, but this isn't? Lol
Do you have a recommended grind setting for the C40 as a good start point?
Yeah! About 12-13!
Could this also be done with a gaggia classic or would the water get too cold because of the little boiler? 😊
Awesome Spro, Yo!
Thank you for another great video, Lance. 🙏
Think this would work on a lever machine? Great video!
Might be hard to get ≈150mL into a lever machines brewing chambers (depending on the machine)
Ryan is correct. Maybe dose even less and try to fit a 1:8 ratio?
maybe on a „preinfusion“ just by boilerpressure until 1:10 ? 1,5bars could be enough… 🤷♂️
Usually the coffee community is very on point in coming out with new cool terms.... but "spro-overs"!!?? really?? Someone dropped the ball on this one. Can we just call it café crema 2.0 or something??? please??
Hahahahahaha! It's really just sprover, but I figured it would be super confusing on the thumbnail
@@LanceHedrick just as bad! 😆
Haha you're right lol!
So grind wise should the setting be what you would normally grind for a v60?
Finer than that! It's coarse, but not that coarse lol
I actually enjoy this method using a pressurized basket
Oh wow! Interesting! Guess it'd give you a nice foamy head and allow you to grind more coarsely! Will need to try
Nice references in this one. “Mah-wige” and goofy goober. 👀
Love me some princess bride and SBSP
I started watching Lance like 2 months ago (A sin, considering how long I've been into coffee and watching Hoffmann) and man, is it weird seeing him without the stubble in older content. He's completely different!
Appreciate the new mellow style. A lot easier to listen and follow along to!
Sure thing! Thanks for watching
Backhanded compliment lol
Hahaha yeah... 🤣
Barista in Melbourne here, you can still find cafe cremas in old school coffee places here. There's even some confusion in some of these places, where ordering a long black gets you a cafe crema. Which isn't always what people expect...
This is so cool! I hope to run into a cafe serving these one day haha
Can we make longer ratio drinks with the updated flair 58? A video for this in future would be very interesting!
Yes! But not long enough for sprovers.
I think you can do sprover in the flair 58! With the new valve plunger, you can refill the chamber, gently pull the handle back up and continue the shot. I’ve tried this a few times, and it totally works. With the puck screen, I’m not worried about damaging the puck integrity
Oh nice! My fear is less damaging puck integrity and moreso unsealing the puck.
@@LanceHedrick Yea, I guess air does have to get in around the puck when the lever goes back up. I’m just hoping with the grind this coarse, the slight disturbances don’t matter as much as they would in normal 9-bar land
Sure, likely not as much, but even some is going to really push channeling around the edges, which isn't ideal.
Do NOT attempt this on a flair pro 2.
I just cant get these to taste good, no matter what i do >.
Can you dimmer mod any espresso machine? Or there are limitations? (Thinking about a Lelit Anna/Gilda to mod)
How comparable is this to an aeropress brew with the prismo attachment? The only espresso machine I have is the flair signature and while I love the shots I get from it, its brew chamber is just not big enough to contain that much water lol
Hi Lance. Hope you're doing well. How's life going with the newborn and everything? Take care of yourself.
Hey! Life is hectic. Work is insane. Baby is great, tho! And his 4 yr old big brother is loving the brother life
Can you do this on a gaja classic
Looking back at this, it's funny to see how much Lance's setup / gear collection has changed
water debit = flow rate?
is there any nuance in the difference of terms?
MAWWIAGE hahaha
I’m guessing this is the excuse I needed to do the dimmer mod on my gaggia classic ✌️😜 How’s about sometime in the future doing an episode on coffee in the wild or coffee outdoors geared around camping 🏕
coffee extracted like this doesn't taste as good. guess we are trying to reinvent the wheel here
@@Lucastoys17 taste is entierly subjective after all mate, I find coffee prepared this way to be delicious, easy, fast and convinient, so I see no downsides to it
Trung- ironically, pulling small espressos WAS reinventing the wheel. Are you familiar with the history of espresso even a little?
Ive been pulling the original cafe crema for my wife for over 6 years. I just grind coarser and get a huge brew ratip in 25 seconds. She loves it. Last year I started playing with lower pressure and she likes it even more. It is her favorite straight blacl coffee drink!
Mind blown - made one of these with paper filter on bottom - good bye pour over.
Hi Lance, just came across this vlog. I can't get my Breville Infuser to pull this a shot over about 45 seconds that *isn't choking* the machine. I can get a 90 ml shot simply by grinder finer but it is quite watery and pulled in normal time about 30 seconds. Do I have to do the dimmer mod to enable the Infuser to pull such a long shot?
Mawaige
Sooo... if I wanted to emulate this style of drink with my Cafelat Robot whose basket/brew chamber will hold a maximum of a little over 80g of water on top of 15g of coffee, resulting in about 65g of liquid which I would have to dilute with another 70-80g of water to reach 1/10 coffee to water ratio, the resulting beverage would have to be named... a long spro-over? A lungissimo americano? An allongé élongué?...
You name it, you figure it out, you find a way to dial it in, and we will discuss names haha
First try was a big fail. A very nice Salvatorian coffee - med roast chocolate/wine bomb. 16gr in an 18gr basket. 2ml/sec for a 150gr coffee but grind too coarse. it come out chalky. I think temp was too hot around 93/4C. back to the drawing board. tomorrow, opening new doors. Thanks.
Yeah. Lower that temp to around 90! And maybe downdose to 14 or 15g
Where is the link for that 3d printed wdt tool you talked about?
I tried this and the BDB gurgled the entire time then overheated and caused error codes 8 and 10. It’s a few months old. Any suggestions?
It was delicious though. My flow rate was a bit lower than yours - I only got out 100g with 15g dose so was planning on increasing from 55pct to something higher.
Weird! That's (8) coffee water flow failure and (10) coffee ntc over temp.
Lower your temp to 190ish and go to 60% PP. Give it a try!
Wow , so unorthodox. Maverick. Coarse, less temp, slow. Wow. Could you get something good out of the thirty dollar MUSA 5 bar or 6 bar no solenoid machine? I got it just to steam milk and liked it a few times using a Feld 47 pushed finely. I took notes on trying to get it to different places, but I forget the details now. I remember the interest in my thermometer of its output was just about the steam wand though and trying to skip using coffee was bad for some reason I forget also. (It was a 2020 phase when I tried anything inexpensive including alcohol stoves with turkish grind in a thing I used to melt butter.)
If it can put out enough water and maintain temp, I don't see why not!
modding vario,,, YES!
Oh yes. Very excited
Could you use a Lucca flow mod to reduce the pressure for these type coffees?
I just tried it for 1:13 for 17gr coffee in an 18gr basket, 90 Celsius. Grind size: random, outcome: delicious 🤤
Just tried it again, all parameters the same but grind size random but finer, outcome: delicious 🤤
Thanks for the great video - this is new to me! You mentioned that the main difference from an Aeropress brew is that immersion is prevented and only percolation happens. Could you approximate this using an Aeropress with an extra filter on top of the grounds as a sort of "puck screen"? E.g. using the Prismo with a regular paper filter on the bottom, then the Prismo's metal filter (which allows no bypass) on top of the grounds, stopping them from floating up into the water in the chamber
No only because there is no way to eliminate the immersion aspect. An espresso machine can deliver clean water and give pressure same time. This isn't possible with the aeropress. You have to add the plunger and plunge seperately from adding water.
@@LanceHedrick I agree that you can't eliminate immersion with the Aeropress, so the method I have described would not totally replicate the spro-over. But my thinking was that with a second filter on top of the grounds, immersion will be greatly reduced because the grounds are only in contact with the water that is percolating through, and once that water has extracted some of the coffee via percolation it will have less remaining capacity to extract further via immersion.
I am viewing the water which passes through the second filter (on top of the grounds) as corresponding to the added water. It's "added" in the sense that it has not yet been in contact with the grounds.
My assumption is that the second/top filter above the grounds can completely separate the grounds and the remaining water. E.g., the Prismo's metal filter allows no bypass so I think it would work here. The regular paper filter wouldn't work well enough
not sure about the aeropress thing ... but this sounds extremely similar to the delter press
I need to check out the delter press
Jimmy, it's definitely worth a try! Report back
Lol! That Princess Bride reference at 5:20
I bet this is not possible with sage barista pro mashine. Or is it?
5:20 I appreciated The Sound of Music, but the little Princess Bride? I see you Lance, I see what you did there.
Ah yessssss. Love me some princess bride! References in a couple vids haha
As you wish
Any specific guidance for an E61 HX machine? I have an Expobar Office Leva. I don’t have much adjustment over anything with the machine tbh
Go coarse and keep pressure to 1-2 bars!
Let's say you can adjust the pressure during the shot. Would you use just 1 bar and grind coarse, or grind a bit finer and increase the pressure to up to 2 bar to compensate?
I'm thinking that maybe this coffee shot actually comes out like a moka pot coffee? Metal filtered, 1:10 ratio, and percolation.
Not quite. Very different, in fact. I can see how you'd think that, tho. This is controlling the steps with a dictated flow rate and thermal stability. The best moka pots pale in comparison both with taste and objective measurements. They simply extract differently.
Great video. I'd really to try these, is it possible with a manual level espresso machine like a Flair Neo? Or is that a stupid question? Thanks.
Hey Lance
@9:50 You said something about the 3d file of the wdt. I looked for it in the description and comments and I couldn't find it. It would be so nice if you could link it somewhere 🤩
Oh! Good call. It is in the caption of my wdt video! When I get to my computer I'll try to remember to link it!
Did you zero out your Atago with water first?
@Lance Loved the video! Please make sure the camera focuses on you. I think it was focused on the shelf behind you for pretty much the entire time.
Interesting! I didn't notice at all in editing. Apologies!
This seems really similar to moka pot coffee.
So basically a Keurig
Lol not quite.
I was literally just going to post a question about these - mostly because I haven't seen any videos by anyone on them. Roos Roast in Ann Arbor does a 'Long Pull' instead of a pour over and it's really nice on some of their coffees. Thanks for covert this. I think this is a pretty efficient drink for a cafe to make instead of a 3-4 min P.O.
Definitely, but a sprover still takes a good amount of time so needing to use a grouphead for like 1 min+ is less than ideal during the busy points of a coffee shop with a 2 group machine, it's only viable for a 3 grouphead I'd say
@@doc8125 makes sense. That's what they use.
Sprovers are likely not ideal in shops since water debit needs to be changed. That being said the coffee shot matt perger outlines tastes great and can be pulled in 45 on stock machine!
@@LanceHedrick I'm still waiting for more commercial machines to have accurate and automatic flow profiling to let us to this sort of stuff
Oh absolutely. Im sure it won't be long now, considering decent is focusing heavily on commercial. Soon, one of the big boys will step up with an easily modifiable flow profiling capability.
I have an E61 machine with a flow control device, so I can control the water debit. What water debit would you recommend as a starting point?
Anywhere from 1.5-4.5!
I think Perger did something similar for one of his routines years ago. Might be wrong.
Whoops, just heard it mentioned in the video as I type this lol
Haha yep! And even linked his recipe on the caption. It's an early iteration of this.
I hope it tastes real good because it sure doesn't look pretty. But as they say "As long as the soup tastes good does it matter if the chicken was blind".
Haha it is ugly as homemade sin! But deliciousness
So, a long lungo, IOW.
Not quite. But I see where you could get confused.
I just tried this today. Man was it tasty! 12g of beans, setting 6 on my Gaggia MDF grinder, 180ml at 2ml/s. I think it will become a permanent program on my machine.
Oh yeah that sounds delicious! Stoked you enjoy it
I know this might sound stupid, but I only have a flair signature. The other day I wanted to know what it'd taste like to pull another shot with the same puck, it turned out pretty watery and a little bitter. Now I'm thinking of maybe doing it again and mixing it with the espresso for a (hopefully) better tasting americano.
I like a longer coffee in the morning to sip but I've not been able to with the flair. Anyone have other ideas I can do with the flair?
Hey! Try to do an allongé or something!
How would you compare this style to something like an aeropress?
Way different. Aeropress has a lot of immersion. This is like a percolation aeropress, if that makes sense. Fresh water goes in, coffee comes out, fresh in, coffee out. Aeropress is water in, one long push, so it turns into immersion
How does this compare to an aeropress? I have an idea how to modify an aeropress to do this if you could get a tamper, top screen and ideally a stand to fit the aeropress I think it would work. Is it worth it tho?
This is completely different from the aeropress in that the aeropress is majority immersion with some pressure. Whereas the sprover is percolation with pressure.
Sounds like we could squeeze some of these shots on the opera2 😉
Your doing great Lance. Remember my prediction? Never a doubt😀. Respect!
Best
Eric 😀😀
Oh yes! Still wanting to come out and play with that monolith and opera!
Which app for the flow rate monitoring for android do you use for acaia lunar?
He uses smart espresso profiler
another great video Lance, thanks! Can yo post the link for the WDT tool handle?? Cheers ☕️
The link is in my wdt video! Go check it out!
Hello Lance how do I set the machine to 90" preinfusion time bdb I got too, my shot came 1:14 ratio in just 40" and taste wise ain't good
Hit both arrows at the same time on the menu. Time for pi will show up. Increase it to 90. And then hit menu and change the pump pressure percentage for pi. I measured water debit until I found 3ml/s
Hence Ladrick at it again
Haha! Just trying to spread the weird side of coffee lol
Hey Lance or others, if I am using an unmodded Gaggia Classic Pro could I achieve this by using the steam wand trick?
The issue is water temp. Boiler is 3oz and you're wasting water with the steam wand hack. You could do it, but you'd lose temp fast. Worth a shot!
“Marriage” that might be the most random (and best) Princess Bride reference
I love me some Princess Bride!
I tried this spro-over idea over the weekend with a Nanopresso + barista kit; 150gm water with 15gm beans. Got a funky yet tasty drink with crema, like it so much!
Awesome! Stoked you enjoyed it! Eye opening, right?
your videos are such a pleasure to watch!
im really hoping i can get this to work on my bambino
I just assumed you were filming this super late at night and had to be quiet so you didn’t wake the new baby haha
Hahaha! No. I've had lots of comments about audio and we figured out it was my intense volume when speaking lol!
How about foregoing the portafilter itself and put grinds in a filter and put the filter (on top of a cup) below the grouphead? Oh btw Lance, since you have the slayer mod for a while, will the needle valve deteriorate as time goes on?
Oh! Another note, I would be careful when running very long pre-infusions back to back as it can overheat the boiler. The moment the extraction starts, the steam boiler will heat up the brew water that passes through it as a heat exchanger before it goes to the brew boiler and to the grouphead. The longer the pre-infusion, the slower hot water flows and the heat will build up inside. That's why many users would get the flashing temp reading in the display thinking the machine is trying to heat up when it actually is overheating. One way I go around this is making sure to purge brew water at full flow after every extraction to bring in cooler water to the boilers.
I normally don't run preinfusion back to back like on the video. This was purely for showing a dial in. And the needle valve is fine! I know plenty who have had their machine modded for years with no signs of issues
I noticed this today with my BDB. I saw the temp flashing and thought wow I really cooled the boiler down with two cups and then I turned the machine off and on so I could see the water temp and the machine was actually at 98C when I had to set for 90. So what you are saying is definitely true. Run some water through between Sprovers. To keep that heat down.
Run it on a decent?
btw if you have a dual boiler and don't want to have to keep changing the pre-infusion setting between espresso and spro-overs, just hold down the manual button and it stays in pre-infusion until you let go. obviously this means you have to hold the button for the whole spro-over but personally I like to watch my shots and monitor flow etc anyway
Yes. This is accurate. I had no desire to hold the button the whole time in the video haha!
uhh what's the app you are using in your phone? what does it do? i thought it was just a timer but no
Smart espresso profiler! Connects to Bluetooth and can track flow rate
I kept asking myself what's the point pretty much throughout the video. I got to the end, I still don't see why I would do this (though I guess it might be something others may enjoy). I'll probably stick to espresso.
Why do you do espresso? That's the reason people do this haha! It has a higher clarity in taste, juicier, easier to drink at a fourth of the TDS, and no bitter crema.
Also, it is interesting this beverage is more true to the original espresso. The modern espresso wasn't even made until 1948 when 9 bar was first used and commercialized for 30ml espresso.
So, the point is really tasty coffee that rivals pourovers. Not to replace espresso, because that is a different beverage, but to have another beautiful iteration of a coffee.
@@LanceHedrick Hmmm... now you have me wondering if I should try at least once. :)
Yes! Do it! Haha you may like it! Take some time to dial it in before final judgement. Just like espresso. Need to dial. Hope you enjoy!
the way I see it is: I don't really always want espresso, sometimes I want something more like filtercoffee, and this is really a very convinient, easy and fast way to achive a really well extracted high strenght cup of "filter coffee"
Would you be able to do a "making a cappuccino, flat white and latte comparison" video? I love your videos and it would be awesome to learn 😁
I have a capp video I just posted!
1 bar and percolated. So this is like a moka pot then, sorta
In theory, but not in execution. Very different results because of how the brewing is occuring. But yeah!
Ok, but what if we do this on a tricolate or an aeropress?
You couldn't do it on a Tricolate because lack of pressure but you can try on an aeropress! Wouldn't be perfect but could be cool!