I can totally understand this perspective because the amount of films that have shown the death of his parents is quite a lot. But it's a little difficult to work around because, from what I understand, the whole reason that he becomes Batman is because of his experience in the alleyway. And if someone doesn't portray the importance of his parents death, you will end up with a scenario like the MCU Spider-Man where Uncle Ben isn't even mentioned in any capacity that tells you Peter was inspired by his death. I feel it is a fine line, and honestly, I would rather see Bruce's parent die again then not completely understand Bruce's backstory and inspiration for becoming Batman.
@@Elfrunner Yeah the sort of multiverse fetish that has infected much of pop culture really seems to have started with DC as patient zero if I'm not mistaken and that has pretty much completely killed my enthusiasm for huge swathes of media and worse everything seems to be trending towards the multiverse BS as a cheap solution to avoid all consequences of bad writing and avoid paying for loremasters/editors to keep things consistent with frequent changes to writers resulting in them constantly screwing things up with inconsistencies. Of course the complete destruction of consequences also obliterates any and all stakes so I can't ever really get invested anymore at best I can just view things that go down this path as cheap disposable ways to kill time on my path to the grave and nothing more meaningful, it's a horrible nihilistic disease propagated by people who are slothful and incompetent, ever resentful yet covetous of the success of the giants upon whose shoulders they stand!
People suggest practical combat suits because a lot of them see Batman primarily as a fighter, not as a detective first. They don't suggest armor for Sherlock Holmes because they see him as a detective first, even though he too is good at fighting. Writers need to start telling stories with Batman where the threat is more cerebral rather than physical. Solving mysteries, finding who the culprit is, moral dilemmas, etc should be prioritized over physical obstacles for Batman.
He basically wants the Punisher. Ironically, his "realistic" version of Batman is quite a bit unrealistic since heavy armor is very difficult to move around in. And that's just for starters
@@aredblip1315 Batman did take on The Dumpster Slasher and a snuff film ring where the main focus was on finding the culprits as well as enough concrete evidence to put them away. He actually failed in the case of The Dumpster Slasher, leading to a vigilante taking the law into her own hands to kill the DS herself after dressing herself up like his favored targets to serve as bait. Modern writers should look back to the O'Neill/Adams era to pull some inspiration for their own stories.
It sickening how writers have corrupted the image of Batman. Bruce Wayne has dealt with a lot of tragedy in his life but that doesn't make him crazy or apathetic. He chooses to be a hero because there is a greater good at stake. He may lurk in the shadows but in reality he's a light in the darkness. Batman strikes fear into the hearts of criminals not out of sadistic pleasure. He uses fear as a weapon to let criminals know they can not escape justice and it shows good always conqueors evil.
I was just speaking to a former comics retail coworker and I was saying that things like the upcoming United States of Captain America and the like are watering down the brands superheroes represent so much that they are becoming damn near useless. As Syndrome said, when everyone is special, no one is. Someone has to go back to being a good custodian of these properties or else they will all go away because people won’t care anymore.
I hear that, look at what's happened to Spider-man. The character really got devalued when they made a multiverse of hundreds of people with spider powers. I mean, pair that with the fact that he hasn't had a truly iconic storyline in literally decades. The fact that only infamously bad storylines are remembered in the past decades is telling.
A lot of Batman's designs kinda blend together now. At least when they started stuffing him in paramilitary gear and armor. The thing also about Batman's suits is that his upgrades use to mean something. Like usually he'd be out in those tights because he knows the criminal underworld he has to fight. But when he's faced with a bigger threat that's when he brings out the Iron Man-esque Batsuits. Then afterwards it'd be business as usual and the tights return next week. Not to mention it says something that a guy in black tights can kick the ass of a man like Deathstroke who’s decked to the nine's in armor and weaponry.
Heroes do not represent the times, they are a response to them...you once said this AND I believe it to the letter! Batman would never weigh in on political talking point of today...All he would focus on is protecting the people of Gotham from those whom seek to harm it...He would even protect/defend his enemies because to his core he believes they can change for the better, BUT this doesnt make him naive...He has a trust, but verify approach... When absurdity becomes normal, rebellion becomes duty! And what screams rebel more than a hopeful person in a room of cynics? This is Batman. You can have characters whom question why Batman wears the costume & poke fun at him, BUT Batman wouldn't give those comments a thought... Everything about the costume is practical...the cape allows him to glide...the armor is never visible TO GIVE the appearance of invulnerability...His quick movements imply supernatural abilities...The gadgets enable him to overcome obstacles...and his peak condition strength/IQ show the discipline and devotion he has for his mission... The legacy of our archetypes live through us and we WILL pass in what we have learned...
All we can do at this point is remember and reserve great creators like Denny O'Neil, Jim Aparo, Doug Moench, Neal Adams, Steve Englehart, Marshall Rogers, etc. Hopefully we get the iconic Batman on the big screen some day...
@Comics By the Numbers I agree with that sentiment, but, I don't see how any of the creators I mentioned above have anything to do with "many deconstruction takes" in your statement.
I debated some young 20 something about his take of Batman and his version wasn't even what you call Batman anymore. He thinks that Batman is just a vengeance ridden maniac that eventually turns to justice. He doesn't even know what the iconic Batman is in the first place and thinks the iconic Batman is archaic and outdated in the modern age.
@@fafal9836 pick up 2 trade paperbacks that represent Batman properly. You can probably find them on Amazon. Batman: Year One Batman: The Long Halloween. These 2 collected editions will give you the best foundation of what Batman should be.
@A L Don't forget the bat-family who have also been watered down by screenwriters, and directors, in live action movies/shows, recent example Dick Grayson in Titans, Cassandra Cain In harley quinn, Jason Todd in Titans, And now with 3rd season of Titans, Introducing commissioner Barbara Gordon (how this plays is unknown)
I like your take on the Gothic Detective Batman in blue and grey. I also remember a Batman line in a comic that goes something like this, "You know who wears armor? People who plan on getting shot."
This is why I respect Robert Kirkman's work on Invincible. The problem with characters being written about endlessly is the interpretations of them are likely to reflect the culture and/or politics of the time. Kirkman had the nards to end it after he felt the story had been completed. James O'Barr gives a great interview on the making of the movie "The Crow". He said something like people can screw around with reinterpreting his work, but he will always have the finished product of his original work. Sorta the same applies to Bats. Corporate and political interests can reinterpret him, but for all of us in love with whatever version we see in our minds, there are always those issues we can always go back to.
Batman vs TMNT animated film from 2019 had a more faithful costume and characterization than the live action movies. They should make more stuff like that. Keep the aspirational Gothic detective Batman alive.
I'm still waiting for the turtles to team up with the other victim of the accident that created them. Some kid, ended up blind, also a ninja that fights a ninja clan named for an appendage.
@@johngonzalez2495 The actually *are* The accident that created them, is the one that blinded Matt Murdoch. The Foot? The Hand. Eastman and Laird were winking.
an argument I keep hearing is "my batman would kill the joker and all his villains" now you have every right to think that, but guess what it doesn't matter what you think the character should do, you are Not the character, I'm Not the character, the Character doesn't do that, this mentality is killing these characters they just want to bend and break these characters to Their own personal sensibilities rather than staying to true to what is best for the character to thrive
@@MutantsInDisguise exactly he has discipline and compassion, even for the bad guys, Harley’s holiday is one of my fav episodes in TAS becuz that whole story was about Batman trying to steer Harley in the right direction becuz deep down he does believes there’s good in people
They want to be more "progressive", "realistic", "less sexualized" and "mature" but really it's all just a narcissistic and selfish desire to destroy past because they cannot create anything, only corrupt. That's why everything looks boring and generic. The same people in charge are the same people who belittled comics when they weren't popular.
@@SoundEngraver the guy from dark knight did. This version of batman is suppose to be grounded so it makes sense that he's not driving around in a wayne industries prototype vehicle that his own employees could identify but a basic car that could belong to anyone. it makes total sense to me at least.
@@mastersodamastasoda1980 You know they don't *have* to go the Nolan route. He could just have his vehicle built through a shell company rather than a subsidiary of Wayne Enterprises.
@@SpideyRules-pq6be but that could still always be traced back to bruce wayne. better to go the Tim Burton route which it seems they are and just have bruce be a talented grease monkey who prolly gets help from alfred. again, this is suppose to be batman in our world they even have homages to the christopher reeve superman movie lol.
Azrael Batman was a warning against this whole era and the fans knew back then what they were trying to say for the most part. If Azrael Batman was introduced now they would eat it up with non-fans asking him to also be brown or gay or something. The beauty of superheroes is that they stand for something and come in different forms. Now we're content to have them all be the same.
Tbh, I'd rather have Gay Batman than Not Batman who's literally just some (para)military soldier in armor and a helmet wielding a gun and driving a jeep or tank.
I agree with you 100% Prof. If Batman loses the cape, starts killing people, or whatever, that's no longer the Batman. A different version becomes a different character, it's no longer Bruce Wayne. That's Steve (All Star Batman Robin meme). Lets get biblical, what if Jesus Christ was a drunk, graceless, regular man? That wouldn't be Jesus! There are core qualities to him that if removed, no longer make him who he is such as his divinity, wisdom, judgement, grace, longsuffering, love, and so on.
It's funny you should say that. This happened to Jesus in Glory/Avengelyne II: The Godyssey back in 1996. Zeus and other Greek gods were mocking Jesus while he was on the cross, so Jesus got down and beat them all up.
all these versions would be perfectly fine if we at least had good representation of the original heroes and villains. Thats the difference of you having the Frank Miller Batman and Batfleck, for example, at least on the first case you could go to the original character if you so desired, but now you can't, you can only see the Batman they want you to see.
Great commentary. I think the rot with the DC characters really set in with the New 52 - erasing all the history that had been built up for something inferior and poorly thought out. And now the New 52 has been undone and it seems like no one cares or even noticed. I also like what you said about the costumes. It reminded me of all the arguments I've heard that Wonder Woman should wear pants and not briefs. Real female athletes wear briefs. Diana is supposed to be the ultimate athlete, not the girl working the checkout counter at Joann's Fabrics.
@Coriolanus Quince I agree, especially when it comes to Wonder Woman's costume, I really never understood any of the arguments about why Wonder Woman should wear pants instead of her leotard, that's not to say Wonder Woman with pants can't or doesn't work (it can) BUT it Shouldn't be as this new and Progressive thing, Anyway I never understood any of the arguments about any of the costumes the female superheroes in the DC Universe were wearing to be impractical, inappropriate, and unrealistic, I mean for crying out loud, it's Fiction, it's just the comic book.
Creative license is great when the creators care about holding true to decades of legacy, but creators should be reigned in from making missteps that worsen the character's legacy. That recent news story about how Zack Snyder's original concept for Justice League heavily focusing on Bruce Wayne and Lois Lane have a romance while Superman was dead resulting in Lois being pregnant with Bruce's baby. A baby who Clark would raise when he's back. What? Who in their right mind would think that is a natural way the story should progress for Batman and Superman to have a weird Jerry Springer style paternity scandal? If the fact that Zack Snyder didn't understand Batman wasn't clear when he had Batman brutally murders and brand criminals (and desired nothing more than to brutally murder Superman, a fellow hero who helps save lives), it should definitely be raising flags by that revelation! It kind of astounds me that people have as much faith in Zack Snyder as they do and his vision for the characters when story ideas like that are ones he would have pushed through if they weren't vetoed by WB for going too far. To be honest, I think that WB/DC needs to be a little tighter on what they allow creators to do, especially when it comes to taboo love triangles, cause Bruce Timm's continuous use of Bruce/Barbara puts a nasty stain on the character that makes it hard to ignore. Rewatching BTAS becomes harder when you know that as much as you admire this Batman he's capable of being trashy enough to sleep with his son's ex. The Killing Joke movie's use of that subplot was astoundingly bad because it made it impossible to respect either character in the second half of the film that was drawing inspiration from The Killing Joke graphic novel.
I'm too tired to give my full take on this so I'm gonna make a quick quote from Alucard on this subject: "He died a long time ago." Batman's identity has been so ripped and torn that he's basically been a walking cultural cadaver. His name and logo evoke some sort of recognition but what it means is long gone. Much like how Alucard knew his father to be a good and intelligent man, we the fans now have seen Batman become a monstrous, brutal, bloodthirsty shell of his former self that now must die for his own good.
Even with the animation side of things are crazy. Like how Bruce Timm corrupted what could've been a decent adaption of The Killing Joke with that one "subplot" alone. That didn't need to be in there whatsoever. What the heck was that?
I think the last good Batman I watched was Batman: The Brave and the Bold. Which was only a few steps up from '66. Under the Red Hood is the other most recent good version.
Alright, more rested and awake now. I want to try to make my comment count for something here. I remember one of the first posts I ever made on your Facebook page was a video analyzing Batman focusing only his aspects that make him a ninja while completely ignoring his aspects as a detective and a bionic hero as you had analyzed. That person who I had linked, Gaijin Goomba, has close to a million followers and people look to him as a source of authority/expertise on pop culture figures. His voice is drowning out the voices of people who know the iconic Batman. And in my opinion, this is why you get these people like batinthesun who makes a dark brooding Batman. Its not just Snyder breaking the character, its these TH-camrs who parrot each other with pop culture babble who then think they can make fan films based solely on whatever Gaijin Goomba and others like him say the character is. Not based on classic stories, but based on what entry level nerds say the character is. Another major problem too is that the comics helped set up a lot of these problems too as well. I remember a video by RJ aka The Fourth Age talking about how Batman is no longer a hero simply because he no longer rises to face challenges so much as he is prepared with contingency plans on top of contingency plans. He doesn't really face adversity or any other problem when he simply uses one of his millions of plans to solve each and every situation presented to him. Because there's no struggle, there is nothing to aspire to. I haven't seen that video by RJ in a while so please don't quote me on this, but I think he said something around the lines that this laid the groundwork for the hyper realism that we saw in the Nolan films and firmly cemented in the New 52. Its a horrible misconception that is presented as fact and its forever hurt Batman's image. That's about all I can think of for this topic. You hit every major point that could be made here so very well said on your end prof. If I have to make a closing point, I guess it would be to check out a video that recently came out by Eric July about the "Different Universes" argument being used to justify the mishandling of these characters in live action depictions. I'll probably send a link to it on Facebook later tonight. Great video prof. Way to speak the hard truths to masses about the state of DC Comics.
I'd rather have Ninja Batman than Not Batman from that one comment featured in this video who doesn't wear a costume, doesn't bring criminals into the criminal justice system, and is just a soldier in body armor wielding a gun and driving a jeep or tank.
"What's the big deal? It's a different universe." Yeah, I'd like to tell them what to do with their "universes." Gullible fans don't know what they want anymore, at least when it doesn't say Snyder or Miller on it.
The different versions of Batman is like gossip. We've all known people who take what we say out of context or exaggerate how we say it, in order to paint us in a negative, melodramatic light. Gossip paints people in a way they are not, and defending the true nature of a person becomes more difficult as time goes on.
Highlander said it best in that there can be only one. Different actors can portray Batman, yes, but keep the character true to his source. We just may have to wait awhile before that happens, because Hollywood is too messed up.
Characters can evolve into heroes. I thought that was what the heroes journey was all about Iron Man and Doctor Strange are perfect examples of flawed character evolving into heroes.
Iron Man isn't apart of the aspirational archetype, he's apart of the cathartic motivational archetype, which is fine; most of the Marvel Heroes are in that archetype, however, DC Heroes are different from Marvel's, DC you inspire to be Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. In Marvel, you relate to the heroes struggles and can be still inspire by some of them like Spider-Man for example, however, he's not apart of the aspirational archetype.
I’m honestly so disoriented with Batman spin-offs what would you suggest are good examples of a Prime Batman? My general idea is BTAS or stories like The Demons Head with adventure and detective work.
There's a weird push to remove American superheroes from being from being superheroes. But, MHA is uber popular with their wacky costumes. I just don't get it.
How about a "version" of Batman where he's a kitchen sponge who lives in an aquatic pineapple and works at a fast food restaraunt? Why not? It's just a "version." You like your "version", we like ours. Who are you to say that's not the character?
1. Joker's not going to take this news well. 2. Those who think a character can get too popular to die should look up "The Shadow" by Walter B. Gibson. That character *inspired* Batman while having one of the most popular pulps and radio shows in history, going on for decades, and now a few generations later, it took a recommendation by Razorfist before I even heard of him earlier this year.
It really is frustrating that people make excuses for Batman killing people in the old DCEU. ( I refuse to call it the Snyderverse, Zack Snyder doesn’t own DC) that proves that they’re not fans of Batman only Snyder’s Punisher. They make up these excuses like Batman killed in the comics and Nolan’s and Burton’s Batman have killed also. Ignoring the fact that Nolan’s take on Batman is not the real iconic Batman and Tim Burton’s movie was the first time seeing Batman on the big screen but still tamed. When they keep making excuses that Batfleck killing is just nonsense excuses and they don’t truly understand the core of the Batman character and his morals. When you take that away he is no longer Batman you make him into the grim knight.
batman arkham asylum and city did a great combo of practical armour but still iconic looking batman. also in the comics he has used body armour under the spandex suit and in mk vs dc (regardless of what people think of that game) batman's suit looks great and iconic but he had armour as he mentioned to raiden when he tried to zap him with lightning. there are ways to do both but apperantly they don't want to.
Listening to Prof an idea occurred to me. Imagine someone creates "a thing". They pack that thing with tender loving care and the finest of ingredients. Then imagine over time a soulless organization and people obsessed with agenda get hold of that thing. They don't use quality ingredients and so you get a knockoff version of that thing. That's where we are now. We have dollar store versions of our favorite heroes. What is really bizarre is people who have actually had the thing when it was good are growing ever more ok with the cheap imitations of that thing, and the most typical excuse I hear is, "Well, something is better than nothing." There is going to be a new comic adventure starring all the people who have ever been Captain America. They are looking for Cap's shield and they come across people who have been inspired by Cap. The big one that everyone is talking about is being touted as "Cap...but gay!" Maybe something isn't better than nothing.
I think the problem with these "adaptations" I think is trying to make it more acceptable in the eyes of a general public. I've always wondered why superhero movies and TV series have such a large audience while animated movies and TV series from the same superheroes don't. Warner has produced DC animated films far better than live action versions. Even as a share universe the line taken from the new 52 is better than anything the DC cinematic universe had to be. A large part of the audience that goes to the cinema has no interest in animated series and especially the comic book side. Warner is trying to make these characters more attractive to that general audience. Tight and flashy costumes are comic book stuff.They need to have more confidence in the material they work with. They have to understand that if they're making a movie about a DC superhero it's because of the success that character has achieved by being in a certain way.
I'm kind of curious what you think of Batman the Brave and the Bold. It's not TAS and it does it's own thing but like you would say the core unities of the character are there.
That commenter needs to just read punisher comics then. Cause all the things they listed that "needs to go" with batman can be attributed with Punisher. People can be foolish.
Superman. Dead. Batman dead. Spider-Man is next. I feel like I’m watching the incredibles in real life , these “writers” kill off real heroes so they can pretend to be.
no hero is in paramilitary gear not even most anti-heroes or war heroes. maybe this is just me but superheroes in spandex are suppose to represent statues of Greek gods. th-cam.com/video/3yX_1gJ_51M/w-d-xo.html i feel like this clip is very relevant to the current topic of conversation.
I agree that AT&T/Warner Bros/DC are confused about the essence of the character of Batman and, more often than not, offering something, not only different, but diametrically opposed to what Batman was for 75 years. However, I think you're underestimating the resilience of the character. It is so strong, so archetypal, that all it needs to bounce back is a strong, accurate portrayal of the character and he will be back. People will always respond to the real thing stronger than they will to the counterfeit.
Honestly, from what little I've observed, Id argue that the superhero story telling is in a coma. Yes there is hope that he might awaken and get back to the way he once was with some tentative, hard work but as is, I'm worried that may not come to pass.
Yep. The iconic Batman is, indeed, dead. Unfortunately, nobody has respect for a corpse. Batman should _not_ be *Mike Hammer* in a Halloween costume. Batman is the athleticism and charm of *Robin Hood* combined with the steel trap mind of *Sherlock Holmes.* With all this want for brutal vigilantes, a la the old pulps, I'm surprised they haven't made a major comeback. Hell, that's what *Dynamite Comics'* _Masks_ series has been about. There's plenty to choose from there: The Shadow, The Spider, The Black Bat, The Avenger, The ... Y'know, I'm suddenly realising why all these characters fell into obscurity and superheroes thrived: They're all samey, one-note, morally-ambiguous killers that have no dramatic weight, because you know they will _always_ kill the villain of the week. As much as I like the old pulp characters, their longevity is limited by their very nature. Batman is going the same way by having his more noble "save the villain" intentions eroded. I feel that's a big part of the Iconic version's appeal; he knows what must be destroyed and what can be healed.
The multiple versions don't bother me that much (except Tom King's and Scott Snyder's in his last series). My favorite is Frank Miller's DKR1 Batman. I see why it would bother you, though. His cultural legacy and status is a part of the fabric of America's cultural identity. As a foreigner, that's not something I can fully appreciate. So, yeah, I get where you're coming from
Pretty much cannot argue but yeah this just happens to be the same problem with the Sonic and Ben 10 franchises. All these various versions make it meaningless to follow any of the stories and when they turn to a multiverse to save the franchise and the fandom from tribalism they created, the character identity waters down into nothing; they're not special anymore resulting in apathy. Definitely miss interesting or visually appealing costumes/designs in western entertainment that told us about the character rather than this obsession with "realism" that doesn't apply to anything outside of the main character's costume ._.
"They got to push their taste onto everything" reminds me of the ideologues who worship RWBY, Akame Ga Kill, and works of Gen Urobuchi such as Madoka Magica. They want to control all creative minds to work strictly in their favor and force all other dissenting tastes into little ghettos of Disney, Marvel, Sitcoms and Hallmark movies. They think because they aren't driven my Identity Politics, they have the moral high ground in their actions.
To me nothing took a crap on Batman's character and lore than CW's Batwahman. That show is god awful and a disgrace to superhero shows how is that thing still on the air? It spent the first season taking shot after shot at Bruce and Batman. I'm still watching the Superman and Lois show even though I know it will inevitably go full on woke its already started in episode 4 which was entirely based on Lois criticizing Clark for not being at her town meeting (which was about her) because he was busy stopping a bomber terrorist. Then she and Lana spent the night getting drunk complaining about, get this, good men doing good in the world. What the Hell kind of crap world are we living in where women are now bitching about men doing good things its pathetic. That is not how Lois behaves at all. And why isn't she spending time with the kids why is it just Clark doing all the parenting? So yah the cracks are already showing.
He’s not dead Batman is a cash cow DC does not care about other heroes it’s always Batman who gets the most movies and the video games and the most comics Aquaman wonder woman Shazam we’re lucky they got movie where is their video game yeah they were in injustice but mostly Batman characters Batman‘s not dead
These fact that we're sure to receive an unnecessary plethora of "Batman" content doesn't negate the fact that the character is dead. I go into it in more depth in the video.
^^^ You are missing the point; it is because of all these "versions" that all the fundamental characterizations have been stripped away slowly, but quickly.
I will never understand why people get so mad about somebody not liking something they love...when people tell me my movies are crap, you know what I do?...I say ok, and move on lol
Batman is my favorite superhero and the BTAS/DCAU and Keaton batman are what I grew up on. I don't believe that Batman is a aspirational hero. Batman is at his core a man with severe ptsd from the death of his parents. He disassociates with himself and the world around him and dedicated the rest of his life to a never ending war on crime is his home of Gotham. Bruce Wayne essentially died the night his parents was murdered. The consciousness that would become Batman was born. Everything he does is in thee service of this mission. In some continuities he is directly responsible for some of his villains various origins. He never gets the closure he needs to move on and in at least the DCAU the only thing that stops him from being batman is the fact that he had to use a gun (didn't fire it) to intimidate a criminal who was gonna fatally wound him during a heart attack he suffered. So basically he physically couldn't do it anymore without fear of death. As soon as he showed up as batman and began eliminating the mob element, supervillians began popping up in Gotham. For as much good as he does he causes almost double the amount of damage to the city. As a symbol he is aspirational but as a man he is not.
Batman is my favorite superhero, but I cannot tell you how tired I am of seeing his origin story revisited in every new iteration of Batman.
Yea it's annoying af. Like we get it let's move on
I can totally understand this perspective because the amount of films that have shown the death of his parents is quite a lot. But it's a little difficult to work around because, from what I understand, the whole reason that he becomes Batman is because of his experience in the alleyway. And if someone doesn't portray the importance of his parents death, you will end up with a scenario like the MCU Spider-Man where Uncle Ben isn't even mentioned in any capacity that tells you Peter was inspired by his death.
I feel it is a fine line, and honestly, I would rather see Bruce's parent die again then not completely understand Bruce's backstory and inspiration for becoming Batman.
You just did.
It's a pop culture example of 'video killed the radio star..'
This misuse of the multiverse thing has made Batman disposable, and it sucks.
@@Elfrunner Yeah the sort of multiverse fetish that has infected much of pop culture really seems to have started with DC as patient zero if I'm not mistaken and that has pretty much completely killed my enthusiasm for huge swathes of media and worse everything seems to be trending towards the multiverse BS as a cheap solution to avoid all consequences of bad writing and avoid paying for loremasters/editors to keep things consistent with frequent changes to writers resulting in them constantly screwing things up with inconsistencies. Of course the complete destruction of consequences also obliterates any and all stakes so I can't ever really get invested anymore at best I can just view things that go down this path as cheap disposable ways to kill time on my path to the grave and nothing more meaningful, it's a horrible nihilistic disease propagated by people who are slothful and incompetent, ever resentful yet covetous of the success of the giants upon whose shoulders they stand!
So armor, helmet, no cape...sounds like he wants Iron Man
Might as well stripped the red and blue colors off Spider-Man's costume and give him an all black suit, oh wait...
Sounds more like he wants just a soldier to me, lol. Paramilitary armor and a helmet with no cape? Yeah, right. It's a damn idiotic joke.
People suggest practical combat suits because a lot of them see Batman primarily as a fighter, not as a detective first. They don't suggest armor for Sherlock Holmes because they see him as a detective first, even though he too is good at fighting. Writers need to start telling stories with Batman where the threat is more cerebral rather than physical. Solving mysteries, finding who the culprit is, moral dilemmas, etc should be prioritized over physical obstacles for Batman.
He basically wants the Punisher. Ironically, his "realistic" version of Batman is quite a bit unrealistic since heavy armor is very difficult to move around in. And that's just for starters
@@aredblip1315 Batman did take on The Dumpster Slasher and a snuff film ring where the main focus was on finding the culprits as well as enough concrete evidence to put them away. He actually failed in the case of The Dumpster Slasher, leading to a vigilante taking the law into her own hands to kill the DS herself after dressing herself up like his favored targets to serve as bait.
Modern writers should look back to the O'Neill/Adams era to pull some inspiration for their own stories.
It sickening how writers have corrupted the image of Batman. Bruce Wayne has dealt with a lot of tragedy in his life but that doesn't make him crazy or apathetic. He chooses to be a hero because there is a greater good at stake. He may lurk in the shadows but in reality he's a light in the darkness. Batman strikes fear into the hearts of criminals not out of sadistic pleasure. He uses fear as a weapon to let criminals know they can not escape justice and it shows good always conqueors evil.
The Adam West Batman acts most like a detective of all live action Batmen.
I was just speaking to a former comics retail coworker and I was saying that things like the upcoming United States of Captain America and the like are watering down the brands superheroes represent so much that they are becoming damn near useless. As Syndrome said, when everyone is special, no one is. Someone has to go back to being a good custodian of these properties or else they will all go away because people won’t care anymore.
I said the same thing.. These box box companies are forcing fans to be the conservators of lore... Its so weird?!
@@astrobot702 nope, they are forcing gatekeeping to become a thing.
I hear that, look at what's happened to Spider-man. The character really got devalued when they made a multiverse of hundreds of people with spider powers. I mean, pair that with the fact that he hasn't had a truly iconic storyline in literally decades. The fact that only infamously bad storylines are remembered in the past decades is telling.
A lot of Batman's designs kinda blend together now. At least when they started stuffing him in paramilitary gear and armor. The thing also about Batman's suits is that his upgrades use to mean something. Like usually he'd be out in those tights because he knows the criminal underworld he has to fight. But when he's faced with a bigger threat that's when he brings out the Iron Man-esque Batsuits. Then afterwards it'd be business as usual and the tights return next week.
Not to mention it says something that a guy in black tights can kick the ass of a man like Deathstroke who’s decked to the nine's in armor and weaponry.
Going from tights to armor is going from an athlete to a soldier, from a strong man who inspires people to a warrior who rules through violence.
This is a really good point, there are multiple versions of Batman existing at one time. If there is no singular cohesive Batman, then who IS Batman?
Heroes do not represent the times, they are a response to them...you once said this AND I believe it to the letter!
Batman would never weigh in on political talking point of today...All he would focus on is protecting the people of Gotham from those whom seek to harm it...He would even protect/defend his enemies because to his core he believes they can change for the better, BUT this doesnt make him naive...He has a trust, but verify approach...
When absurdity becomes normal, rebellion becomes duty! And what screams rebel more than a hopeful person in a room of cynics? This is Batman.
You can have characters whom question why Batman wears the costume & poke fun at him, BUT Batman wouldn't give those comments a thought...
Everything about the costume is practical...the cape allows him to glide...the armor is never visible TO GIVE the appearance of invulnerability...His quick movements imply supernatural abilities...The gadgets enable him to overcome obstacles...and his peak condition strength/IQ show the discipline and devotion he has for his mission...
The legacy of our archetypes live through us and we WILL pass in what we have learned...
All we can do at this point is remember and reserve great creators like Denny O'Neil, Jim Aparo, Doug Moench, Neal Adams, Steve Englehart, Marshall Rogers, etc. Hopefully we get the iconic Batman on the big screen some day...
@Comics By the Numbers I agree with that sentiment, but, I don't see how any of the creators I mentioned above have anything to do with "many deconstruction takes" in your statement.
I debated some young 20 something about his take of Batman and his version wasn't even what you call Batman anymore. He thinks that Batman is just a vengeance ridden maniac that eventually turns to justice.
He doesn't even know what the iconic Batman is in the first place and thinks the iconic Batman is archaic and outdated in the modern age.
@@fafal9836 pick up 2 trade paperbacks that represent Batman properly.
You can probably find them on Amazon.
Batman: Year One
Batman: The Long Halloween.
These 2 collected editions will give you the best foundation of what Batman should be.
@D F 2 Snyder definitely did not help in that regard. He also screwed up Superman.
They’ve been killing Batman for years. He’s been watered down so much no one knows who he is anymore.
@A L
Don't forget the bat-family who have also been watered down by screenwriters, and directors, in live action movies/shows, recent example
Dick Grayson in Titans, Cassandra Cain
In harley quinn, Jason Todd in Titans,
And now with 3rd season of Titans,
Introducing commissioner Barbara Gordon (how this plays is unknown)
I like your take on the Gothic Detective Batman in blue and grey. I also remember a Batman line in a comic that goes something like this, "You know who wears armor? People who plan on getting shot."
This is why I respect Robert Kirkman's work on Invincible. The problem with characters being written about endlessly is the interpretations of them are likely to reflect the culture and/or politics of the time. Kirkman had the nards to end it after he felt the story had been completed. James O'Barr gives a great interview on the making of the movie "The Crow". He said something like people can screw around with reinterpreting his work, but he will always have the finished product of his original work. Sorta the same applies to Bats. Corporate and political interests can reinterpret him, but for all of us in love with whatever version we see in our minds, there are always those issues we can always go back to.
And what if O'Barr's original work is forgotten? That's the Professor's point.
"Batman Is Dead", Correction: DC Comics is dead.
That too
I did, but I'm no expert on the character from the comics. I grew up with DC.
The ideal Batman is ironically, from an adaptation: Batman from Batman TAS back in the 90's
American entertainment in general (at least in the mainstream) is dead.
Batman vs TMNT animated film from 2019 had a more faithful costume and characterization than the live action movies. They should make more stuff like that. Keep the aspirational Gothic detective Batman alive.
I'm still waiting for the turtles to team up with the other victim of the accident that created them. Some kid, ended up blind, also a ninja that fights a ninja clan named for an appendage.
@@lynngreen7978 I can see the Turtles fitting in better in the Marvel Universe tbh.
@@johngonzalez2495 The actually *are*
The accident that created them, is the one that blinded Matt Murdoch.
The Foot? The Hand.
Eastman and Laird were winking.
The best Batman design in live-action is Tim Burton's. Tells you right there who Batman is.
A dude in a rubber 'armor' suit? Yeah, I blame Burton for the idiotic looks since 1989...
@@erichurd7605 Look, it might not be the iconic Batsuit, but the cowl, symbol, cape, and mask... It's pretty damn close.
@@entertainmenttime9978 Did you even watch the '89 version? Hell, the emblem isn't even correct.
@Dustin Neely Nope, I hate that trilogy too. Trying WAY too hard to be 'realistic'.
I piece my outfits together from Brooks Brothers. I am....Birdman....
🤣 Well said!
My father-in-law only shops at Brooks Brothers. He’s one well-dressed man and I bet you are too.
Glad someone noticed, Batman is SOOOOOOOO overexposed, only Spider-Man is 'possibly' more overexposed.
Wait. Black Suit. Armored. No cape. No exposed face. Yeah. It works. Totally Iconic. Terry McGinnis looks great in it.
The commenter also said no ears, so Batman Beyond is out of the picture.
@@SpideyRules-pq6be He wants Iron Man
an argument I keep hearing is "my batman would kill the joker and all his villains" now you have every right to think that, but guess what it doesn't matter what you think the character should do, you are Not the character, I'm Not the character, the Character doesn't do that, this mentality is killing these characters they just want to bend and break these characters to Their own personal sensibilities rather than staying to true to what is best for the character to thrive
@@MutantsInDisguise exactly he has discipline and compassion, even for the bad guys, Harley’s holiday is one of my fav episodes in TAS becuz that whole story was about Batman trying to steer Harley in the right direction becuz deep down he does believes there’s good in people
They want to be more "progressive", "realistic", "less sexualized" and "mature" but really it's all just a narcissistic and selfish desire to destroy past because they cannot create anything, only corrupt. That's why everything looks boring and generic. The same people in charge are the same people who belittled comics when they weren't popular.
They’re too many cinematic versions of Batman & Superman.
I think the point of the new batman lookin so tacky is to throw people off from his scent that he's a billionaire.
Had characters assumed Batman was a billionaire before?
@@SoundEngraver the guy from dark knight did. This version of batman is suppose to be grounded so it makes sense that he's not driving around in a wayne industries prototype vehicle that his own employees could identify but a basic car that could belong to anyone. it makes total sense to me at least.
@@mastersodamastasoda1980 You know they don't *have* to go the Nolan route. He could just have his vehicle built through a shell company rather than a subsidiary of Wayne Enterprises.
@@SpideyRules-pq6be but that could still always be traced back to bruce wayne. better to go the Tim Burton route which it seems they are and just have bruce be a talented grease monkey who prolly gets help from alfred. again, this is suppose to be batman in our world they even have homages to the christopher reeve superman movie lol.
@@mastersodamastasoda1980 Tim Burton's batmobile looks a hell of a lot more like a batmobile then what Matt Reeves is giving us.
The whole point of batman's cape is to make him look like a giant bat
Azrael Batman was a warning against this whole era and the fans knew back then what they were trying to say for the most part. If Azrael Batman was introduced now they would eat it up with non-fans asking him to also be brown or gay or something. The beauty of superheroes is that they stand for something and come in different forms. Now we're content to have them all be the same.
Tbh, I'd rather have Gay Batman than Not Batman who's literally just some (para)military soldier in armor and a helmet wielding a gun and driving a jeep or tank.
Who remembers the Commander Courage vs. Codename Courage argument from Comic Book: The Movie. Same diff with Bats I suppose
Do a video on it.
I agree with you 100% Prof. If Batman loses the cape, starts killing people, or whatever, that's no longer the Batman. A different version becomes a different character, it's no longer Bruce Wayne. That's Steve (All Star Batman Robin meme). Lets get biblical, what if Jesus Christ was a drunk, graceless, regular man? That wouldn't be Jesus! There are core qualities to him that if removed, no longer make him who he is such as his divinity, wisdom, judgement, grace, longsuffering, love, and so on.
It's funny you should say that. This happened to Jesus in Glory/Avengelyne II: The Godyssey back in 1996. Zeus and other Greek gods were mocking Jesus while he was on the cross, so Jesus got down and beat them all up.
all these versions would be perfectly fine if we at least had good representation of the original heroes and villains. Thats the difference of you having the Frank Miller Batman and Batfleck, for example, at least on the first case you could go to the original character if you so desired, but now you can't, you can only see the Batman they want you to see.
What the hell was that guy talking about the cape is tactical it helps Batman glide
'Creatives' want these characters warped this way. They don't want us to have any heroes to aspire to. I'll leave you to fill in the reasons why...
Great commentary. I think the rot with the DC characters really set in with the New 52 - erasing all the history that had been built up for something inferior and poorly thought out. And now the New 52 has been undone and it seems like no one cares or even noticed.
I also like what you said about the costumes. It reminded me of all the arguments I've heard that Wonder Woman should wear pants and not briefs. Real female athletes wear briefs. Diana is supposed to be the ultimate athlete, not the girl working the checkout counter at Joann's Fabrics.
@Coriolanus Quince
I agree, especially when it comes to Wonder Woman's costume, I really never understood any of the arguments about why Wonder Woman should wear pants instead of her leotard, that's not to say
Wonder Woman with pants can't or doesn't work (it can) BUT it Shouldn't be as this new and Progressive thing,
Anyway I never understood any of the arguments about any of the costumes the female superheroes in the DC Universe were wearing to be impractical, inappropriate, and unrealistic, I mean for crying out loud, it's Fiction, it's just the comic book.
Creative license is great when the creators care about holding true to decades of legacy, but creators should be reigned in from making missteps that worsen the character's legacy.
That recent news story about how Zack Snyder's original concept for Justice League heavily focusing on Bruce Wayne and Lois Lane have a romance while Superman was dead resulting in Lois being pregnant with Bruce's baby. A baby who Clark would raise when he's back. What? Who in their right mind would think that is a natural way the story should progress for Batman and Superman to have a weird Jerry Springer style paternity scandal? If the fact that Zack Snyder didn't understand Batman wasn't clear when he had Batman brutally murders and brand criminals (and desired nothing more than to brutally murder Superman, a fellow hero who helps save lives), it should definitely be raising flags by that revelation!
It kind of astounds me that people have as much faith in Zack Snyder as they do and his vision for the characters when story ideas like that are ones he would have pushed through if they weren't vetoed by WB for going too far.
To be honest, I think that WB/DC needs to be a little tighter on what they allow creators to do, especially when it comes to taboo love triangles, cause Bruce Timm's continuous use of Bruce/Barbara puts a nasty stain on the character that makes it hard to ignore. Rewatching BTAS becomes harder when you know that as much as you admire this Batman he's capable of being trashy enough to sleep with his son's ex. The Killing Joke movie's use of that subplot was astoundingly bad because it made it impossible to respect either character in the second half of the film that was drawing inspiration from The Killing Joke graphic novel.
I'm too tired to give my full take on this so I'm gonna make a quick quote from Alucard on this subject: "He died a long time ago."
Batman's identity has been so ripped and torn that he's basically been a walking cultural cadaver. His name and logo evoke some sort of recognition but what it means is long gone. Much like how Alucard knew his father to be a good and intelligent man, we the fans now have seen Batman become a monstrous, brutal, bloodthirsty shell of his former self that now must die for his own good.
Simple solution:- less 'dark', more 'knight'.
Even with the animation side of things are crazy. Like how Bruce Timm corrupted what could've been a decent adaption of The Killing Joke with that one "subplot" alone. That didn't need to be in there whatsoever. What the heck was that?
I think the last good Batman I watched was Batman: The Brave and the Bold. Which was only a few steps up from '66. Under the Red Hood is the other most recent good version.
Alright, more rested and awake now. I want to try to make my comment count for something here.
I remember one of the first posts I ever made on your Facebook page was a video analyzing Batman focusing only his aspects that make him a ninja while completely ignoring his aspects as a detective and a bionic hero as you had analyzed. That person who I had linked, Gaijin Goomba, has close to a million followers and people look to him as a source of authority/expertise on pop culture figures. His voice is drowning out the voices of people who know the iconic Batman. And in my opinion, this is why you get these people like batinthesun who makes a dark brooding Batman. Its not just Snyder breaking the character, its these TH-camrs who parrot each other with pop culture babble who then think they can make fan films based solely on whatever Gaijin Goomba and others like him say the character is. Not based on classic stories, but based on what entry level nerds say the character is.
Another major problem too is that the comics helped set up a lot of these problems too as well. I remember a video by RJ aka The Fourth Age talking about how Batman is no longer a hero simply because he no longer rises to face challenges so much as he is prepared with contingency plans on top of contingency plans. He doesn't really face adversity or any other problem when he simply uses one of his millions of plans to solve each and every situation presented to him. Because there's no struggle, there is nothing to aspire to. I haven't seen that video by RJ in a while so please don't quote me on this, but I think he said something around the lines that this laid the groundwork for the hyper realism that we saw in the Nolan films and firmly cemented in the New 52. Its a horrible misconception that is presented as fact and its forever hurt Batman's image.
That's about all I can think of for this topic. You hit every major point that could be made here so very well said on your end prof. If I have to make a closing point, I guess it would be to check out a video that recently came out by Eric July about the "Different Universes" argument being used to justify the mishandling of these characters in live action depictions. I'll probably send a link to it on Facebook later tonight.
Great video prof. Way to speak the hard truths to masses about the state of DC Comics.
I'd rather have Ninja Batman than Not Batman from that one comment featured in this video who doesn't wear a costume, doesn't bring criminals into the criminal justice system, and is just a soldier in body armor wielding a gun and driving a jeep or tank.
Geek, do you think The Batman (2004) is a good representation of the iconic Batman?
"What's the big deal? It's a different universe."
Yeah, I'd like to tell them what to do with their "universes." Gullible fans don't know what they want anymore, at least when it doesn't say Snyder or Miller on it.
One thing you mentioned about the Waynes being evil, they've done that in some continuities as well.
10:32 the batman Pattinson now kinda did that unfortunately
I have a blast with Batman vs TMNT
The different versions of Batman is like gossip. We've all known people who take what we say out of context or exaggerate how we say it, in order to paint us in a negative, melodramatic light. Gossip paints people in a way they are not, and defending the true nature of a person becomes more difficult as time goes on.
@@MutantsInDisguise Thank you!
Highlander said it best in that there can be only one. Different actors can portray Batman, yes, but keep the character true to his source. We just may have to wait awhile before that happens, because Hollywood is too messed up.
Characters can evolve into heroes. I thought that was what the heroes journey was all about Iron Man and Doctor Strange are perfect examples of flawed character evolving into heroes.
Cathartic/motivational heroes can but not aspirational heroes. They're different archetypes.
Iron Man isn't apart of the aspirational archetype, he's apart of the cathartic motivational archetype, which is fine; most of the Marvel Heroes are in that archetype, however, DC Heroes are different from Marvel's, DC you inspire to be Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, etc. In Marvel, you relate to the heroes struggles and can be still inspire by some of them like Spider-Man for example, however, he's not apart of the aspirational archetype.
I’m honestly so disoriented with Batman spin-offs what would you suggest are good examples of a Prime Batman? My general idea is BTAS or stories like The Demons Head with adventure and detective work.
Adam West Batman rules!... and so does Micheal Keaton. They ruined Wonder Woman in these movies too.
8:16 reminds me of a negative review I saw for a Japanese restaurant. The person who complained said they didn't have ranch dressing.
I guess they didn't know Japanese food like the Prof knows Batman.
There's a weird push to remove American superheroes from being from being superheroes. But, MHA is uber popular with their wacky costumes. I just don't get it.
That was literally just describing Red Hood
Good things opinions are subjective
Art isn't subjective. That's the key.
How about a "version" of Batman where he's a kitchen sponge who lives in an aquatic pineapple and works at a fast food restaraunt? Why not? It's just a "version." You like your "version", we like ours. Who are you to say that's not the character?
1. Joker's not going to take this news well.
2. Those who think a character can get too popular to die should look up "The Shadow" by Walter B. Gibson. That character *inspired* Batman while having one of the most popular pulps and radio shows in history, going on for decades, and now a few generations later, it took a recommendation by Razorfist before I even heard of him earlier this year.
It really is frustrating that people make excuses for Batman killing people in the old DCEU. ( I refuse to call it the Snyderverse, Zack Snyder doesn’t own DC) that proves that they’re not fans of Batman only Snyder’s Punisher. They make up these excuses like Batman killed in the comics and Nolan’s and Burton’s Batman have killed also. Ignoring the fact that Nolan’s take on Batman is not the real iconic Batman and Tim Burton’s movie was the first time seeing Batman on the big screen but still tamed. When they keep making excuses that Batfleck killing is just nonsense excuses and they don’t truly understand the core of the Batman character and his morals. When you take that away he is no longer Batman you make him into the grim knight.
Batman is not dead but if we having a dosem or soo versions of him that don’t seem to understand the core of his character what IS Batman anymore?
batman arkham asylum and city did a great combo of practical armour but still iconic looking batman. also in the comics he has used body armour under the spandex suit and in mk vs dc (regardless of what people think of that game) batman's suit looks great and iconic but he had armour as he mentioned to raiden when he tried to zap him with lightning. there are ways to do both but apperantly they don't want to.
Is it still ok to show a potential fan the animated series?
Listening to Prof an idea occurred to me. Imagine someone creates "a thing". They pack that thing with tender loving care and the finest of ingredients. Then imagine over time a soulless organization and people obsessed with agenda get hold of that thing. They don't use quality ingredients and so you get a knockoff version of that thing. That's where we are now. We have dollar store versions of our favorite heroes. What is really bizarre is people who have actually had the thing when it was good are growing ever more ok with the cheap imitations of that thing, and the most typical excuse I hear is, "Well, something is better than nothing." There is going to be a new comic adventure starring all the people who have ever been Captain America. They are looking for Cap's shield and they come across people who have been inspired by Cap. The big one that everyone is talking about is being touted as "Cap...but gay!" Maybe something isn't better than nothing.
I think the problem with these "adaptations" I think is trying to make it more acceptable in the eyes of a general public. I've always wondered why superhero movies and TV series have such a large audience while animated movies and TV series from the same superheroes don't. Warner has produced DC animated films far better than live action versions. Even as a share universe the line taken from the new 52 is better than anything the DC cinematic universe had to be. A large part of the audience that goes to the cinema has no interest in animated series and especially the comic book side. Warner is trying to make these characters more attractive to that general audience. Tight and flashy costumes are comic book stuff.They need to have more confidence in the material they work with. They have to understand that if they're making a movie about a DC superhero it's because of the success that character has achieved by being in a certain way.
I'm kind of curious what you think of Batman the Brave and the Bold. It's not TAS and it does it's own thing but like you would say the core unities of the character are there.
I love that series
@@ProfessorGeekMC If you ever go back and watch it you should do a review on it. Honestly one of the more underrated Batman cartoons in my opinion.
Warner: This is our version m'kay?
Me: Then it isn't Batman m'kay?
That commenter needs to just read punisher comics then. Cause all the things they listed that "needs to go" with batman can be attributed with Punisher. People can be foolish.
I've actually seen costume that guy was rambling about. It was in Arkham Knight variation on the Batman Beyond costume.
Superman. Dead. Batman dead. Spider-Man is next. I feel like I’m watching the incredibles in real life , these “writers” kill off real heroes so they can pretend to be.
Batman is so diluted at this point that his writers have him aligning himself with rioters and looters like the Joaquin Phoenix Joker.
no hero is in paramilitary gear not even most anti-heroes or war heroes. maybe this is just me but superheroes in spandex are suppose to represent statues of Greek gods. th-cam.com/video/3yX_1gJ_51M/w-d-xo.html i feel like this clip is very relevant to the current topic of conversation.
"Heihachi Mishima..., Is Dead"
I agree that AT&T/Warner Bros/DC are confused about the essence of the character of Batman and, more often than not, offering something, not only different, but diametrically opposed to what Batman was for 75 years. However, I think you're underestimating the resilience of the character. It is so strong, so archetypal, that all it needs to bounce back is a strong, accurate portrayal of the character and he will be back. People will always respond to the real thing stronger than they will to the counterfeit.
You need to straighten your books on your shelves Prof, it's not tactical :P
Honestly, from what little I've observed, Id argue that the superhero story telling is in a coma. Yes there is hope that he might awaken and get back to the way he once was with some tentative, hard work but as is, I'm worried that may not come to pass.
I'm going to guess that you really disliked Batman: White Knight. I thought it was really close to what you say Batman is (in terms of thought).
The Snyder cut is freaking awful. It’s gotta be dead after this.
DC would love to kill Batman.
They'd permanently leave him dead, and replace him with an ideologue.
Yep. The iconic Batman is, indeed, dead. Unfortunately, nobody has respect for a corpse.
Batman should _not_ be *Mike Hammer* in a Halloween costume.
Batman is the athleticism and charm of *Robin Hood* combined with the steel trap mind of *Sherlock Holmes.*
With all this want for brutal vigilantes, a la the old pulps, I'm surprised they haven't made a major comeback. Hell, that's what *Dynamite Comics'* _Masks_ series has been about. There's plenty to choose from there: The Shadow, The Spider, The Black Bat, The Avenger, The ... Y'know, I'm suddenly realising why all these characters fell into obscurity and superheroes thrived: They're all samey, one-note, morally-ambiguous killers that have no dramatic weight, because you know they will _always_ kill the villain of the week.
As much as I like the old pulp characters, their longevity is limited by their very nature. Batman is going the same way by having his more noble "save the villain" intentions eroded. I feel that's a big part of the Iconic version's appeal; he knows what must be destroyed and what can be healed.
"Unfortunately, nobody has respect for a corpse", that's because they don't SEE a corpse, they see a beaten horse however, and won't stop kicking it
@@entertainmenttime9978 I was thinking they see more of a morbid marionette to play with, but yes, an injured horse is just all the more tragic.
The multiple versions don't bother me that much (except Tom King's and Scott Snyder's in his last series). My favorite is Frank Miller's DKR1 Batman.
I see why it would bother you, though. His cultural legacy and status is a part of the fabric of America's cultural identity. As a foreigner, that's not something I can fully appreciate. So, yeah, I get where you're coming from
thank you very much. you are 120% correct. Snyder version batman isn't batman at all
We need robin
Pretty much cannot argue but yeah this just happens to be the same problem with the Sonic and Ben 10 franchises. All these various versions make it meaningless to follow any of the stories and when they turn to a multiverse to save the franchise and the fandom from tribalism they created, the character identity waters down into nothing; they're not special anymore resulting in apathy.
Definitely miss interesting or visually appealing costumes/designs in western entertainment that told us about the character rather than this obsession with "realism" that doesn't apply to anything outside of the main character's costume ._.
"They got to push their taste onto everything" reminds me of the ideologues who worship RWBY, Akame Ga Kill, and works of Gen Urobuchi such as Madoka Magica. They want to control all creative minds to work strictly in their favor and force all other dissenting tastes into little ghettos of Disney, Marvel, Sitcoms and Hallmark movies. They think because they aren't driven my Identity Politics, they have the moral high ground in their actions.
To me nothing took a crap on Batman's character and lore than CW's Batwahman. That show is god awful and a disgrace to superhero shows how is that thing still on the air? It spent the first season taking shot after shot at Bruce and Batman. I'm still watching the Superman and Lois show even though I know it will inevitably go full on woke its already started in episode 4 which was entirely based on Lois criticizing Clark for not being at her town meeting (which was about her) because he was busy stopping a bomber terrorist. Then she and Lana spent the night getting drunk complaining about, get this, good men doing good in the world. What the Hell kind of crap world are we living in where women are now bitching about men doing good things its pathetic. That is not how Lois behaves at all. And why isn't she spending time with the kids why is it just Clark doing all the parenting? So yah the cracks are already showing.
He’s not dead Batman is a cash cow DC does not care about other heroes it’s always Batman who gets the most movies and the video games and the most comics Aquaman wonder woman Shazam we’re lucky they got movie where is their video game yeah they were in injustice but mostly Batman characters Batman‘s not dead
These fact that we're sure to receive an unnecessary plethora of "Batman" content doesn't negate the fact that the character is dead. I go into it in more depth in the video.
^^^ You are missing the point; it is because of all these "versions" that all the fundamental characterizations have been stripped away slowly, but quickly.
I will never understand why people get so mad about somebody not liking something they love...when people tell me my movies are crap, you know what I do?...I say ok, and move on lol
Was the troll talking about Batman, or Iron Man?? I got lost at one point...
Batman is my favorite superhero and the BTAS/DCAU and Keaton batman are what I grew up on. I don't believe that Batman is a aspirational hero. Batman is at his core a man with severe ptsd from the death of his parents. He disassociates with himself and the world around him and dedicated the rest of his life to a never ending war on crime is his home of Gotham. Bruce Wayne essentially died the night his parents was murdered. The consciousness that would become Batman was born. Everything he does is in thee service of this mission. In some continuities he is directly responsible for some of his villains various origins. He never gets the closure he needs to move on and in at least the DCAU the only thing that stops him from being batman is the fact that he had to use a gun (didn't fire it) to intimidate a criminal who was gonna fatally wound him during a heart attack he suffered. So basically he physically couldn't do it anymore without fear of death. As soon as he showed up as batman and began eliminating the mob element, supervillians began popping up in Gotham. For as much good as he does he causes almost double the amount of damage to the city. As a symbol he is aspirational but as a man he is not.