Today I signed up for RCIA at my local parish. I fell very far away from the Faith that I grew up with. Trent you’ve been a huge reason for my reversion back to Catholicism. Thank you for what you’ve done and continue you to do. 🙏🏻 I pray that I can defend the Faith within my inner circle like you do online.
What is RCIA? I stopped going to Mass after confirmation in the early 70's. I've just returned and puzzled. For instance, I say, "And also with you " ... But my parish is Traditional Latin Mass, I really love going but have no idea what is going on. It's also a lot different than the huge Church I go to when I sleep late.
@AnarSchism. Rite of Christian Iniation for Adults, you can learn about what the church teaches and if not already confirmed, baptized or received your first holy communion you can learn about those and partake in those sacraments
This video makes me appreciate even more when Tim Gordon publicly acknowledged that having done further research he was wrong about Vatican 2. The ability to publicly admit you are wrong is sorely missed from both the trad and liberal Catholic spaces.
I really like that Trent takes the time in his own videos to steelman criticism of his points, it demonstrates a humility and awareness that is quite admirable.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I used to listen to Taylor Marshall and Michael Voris until I found myself becoming negative about the Church and Church leaders and not being charitable like Christ told us to be. So much better now over the years I have found better Catholic people to listen to!
christineheuring5289: you need to be aware... the Church is infested with gay, errant and heretical clergy. Yes you can address those who are disgusting and violate their Holy Orders from 'day 1' with charity, but don't excuse their errant, heretical and sometimes Apostacy. It is the souls of the dependent children of tomorrow who are then the victims.
CORRECTION: Kennedy Hall has said I "lied" about him and that it was another group he worked with, and not him, who took down his video about evolution (even though "The Kennedy Report" is in the background of it). I asked him if he still agreed with everything he said in the original video and he has not yet replied. So, I retract my statement that "to his credit, Hall took the original video down." I mistakenly commended Hall for thoughtfully reconsidering what he said in light of fair criticism. It appears I was mistaken.
To be honest that was really such a small comment in your video for Kennedy to have homed in on.... I'm surprised that the weightier issues which you pointed out with charity weren't acknowledged at all.....odd!
Trent, you definitely have good will and you are a good man. But here are two things you got wrong: 1 - Belief in the Theory of Evolution (cite the evidence, lets take a look at it) 2 - Stating Bishop Barron is doing a good. How can a bishop who states we may reasonably hope that all people will be saved or that Christ is the priviledged way help save souls unless he first corrects himself? I would venture to say that many souls that take these two statements to heart are lost I recommend that you read books by Stephen Meyer, Michael Behe, Philip Johnson, Ann Gauger, and anybody else from Discovery Institute. One simply excellent book is "Heretic: One Scientist's Journey from Darwin to Design" by Matti Leisola. The theory of evolution (which is not based on fact, but on bad philosophy) is fundamental for Marxism in all its forms. If you want to put a dent in the devil's plan for man, read some of these books. Learn about this. See if the biochemistry or fossil record matches up with what evolutionists want us to believe. God bless
Why should he respond to you and also why should he have taken it down? You got the information wrong and you condescendingly act like you have all the facts. I don't think it matters what Rutherford or whatever his name is thinks about this comments in the said video (which I did see years ago). UnRationality Rules believes its ok to genocide unborn children, so why would I give a damn about what he thinks Kennedy gets wrong about Coelacanth?? Seems like one error (if it even is one) it a hell of a lot bigger than the other. We need to ignore people like them and form and build up our own communities, not tear down other catholics. Its atheistic materalists like that long haired freak with the credibility problem, not Kennedy.ç
That's not the only thing that needs to be corrected. The DJ feast wasn't because of a catholic tradition, the feast is about alternative medicine, and specifically about a pagan (-ish) ritual performed by a catholic priest. Here is a video of the "exorcism" with father Fontes: th-cam.com/video/5D3-QvhTpMw/w-d-xo.html The older man is father Fontes, at 7:23 you can hear them asking the forces of the elements to let their friends take part in the Queimada, which is the name of the ritual and the punch which is in the large cauldron
@@nathanvangoor4979 I agree with you. And that type of music is demonic. There is an article about it in EWTN. - Sacred Music vs Satanic Music. If gregorian chant is divine, as it is, if it lifts our souls to God, the devil, distorter of all that is good must have influenced people to create music with the opposite effect. Techno seems to get close to it.
How I realized that Taylor Marshall does not check the primary source he comments on: He released a video in a “Dear Pope Francis” children’s book. In this book, children write letters to Pope Francis and the Pope responds, the. The correspondences are published in this book. In Marshall’s video, he talks about a correspondence in which a child asks Francis about altar serving, and Francis mocks the Tridentine mass that he served as a boy. I have read that book from cover to cover and that particular correspondence that Marshall refers to is not in the book Dear Pope Francis. He must have seen it online in picture form and never bothered to check the actual book.
Quick guide to Trads: Rad trads - exhibit radical behavior against the Church Mad trads - angry about the state of the Church Sad trads - despair over the state of the Church Glad trads - optimistic about the state of the Church Chad trads - self explanatory Lad trads - your friends telling you to go to the TLM for the 100th time Bad trads - they try to be trad, but they enjoy sinning too much Fad trads - are only trad because it’s trendy (how weird is that) Fradd trads - have watched every interview on Pints with Aquinas Plaid trads - wearing a polo is sacrilege, should be wearing a tux Dad trads - you wish you had one, you wish you didn’t have one Grad trads - educated in every facet of church history and magisterial documents Clad trads - wear medieval armor and LARP as Crusaders Thad trads - name at least one son Thaddeus (the rest follow after the other apostles) Ad trads - sellouts: are you depressed, well you need the devotional stuff of St Therese of Lisieux!
Detracting name calling. You all forget to mention the Catholics who like Marshall and Kennedy most of all because they call out an evil pope and evil bishops and evil American president. We are being chastised with bad leaders. Face it.
That is something I notice a lot. American Catholics are quick to complain and whine about the Church, while Catholics in other countries don’t see any issue because they understand context much better.
@@chukwurahsomadina2897you put my thoughts into words exactly. I’m American myself, but I know there is a difference between the two. I let my faith inform my politics, so I decided to not be a part of any political party. These crazies do the opposite. They let their political parties inform their faith.
To be fair, the techno music DJ priest thing…I mean those were devil horns, that was a guy dressed in masochistic S&M leather attire, the altar and lighting was dark and for foreboding and techno music DJ parties are absolutely directly associated with MDMA and other party drugs. I’m not a Catholic, but that’s insanely bad optics and bad decision-making for a man of the cloth imo.
Agree, Gotta be honest it is frustrating to see a Priest DJ’ing knowing that most NO perishes have 45 mins of confession a week and many times there’s a sign on the door that there’s No confession this week.
@@anthonyhulse1248: In my little church in Japan there are no set times for confession at all. Hardly anybody goes to the confession recently (last couple of years). Even when there is something like a Lenten “retreat” and a visiting priest makes a special time for hearing confessions. And nearly all people attending the Holy Mass go and accept the Holy Communion. I don’t speak Japanese, so I have to make a special appointment with a priest speaking English in order to go and make a confession. It looks like they are trying to “cancel,” or at least suppress, this sacrament… It’s true that there is a lack of priests - there are three priests (one is still learning Japanese) for some 10 churches and chapels in our diocese and there are some Sundays without a Holy Mass and with a “service” led by Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist (mostly females) instead.
This was explained in Trent's video. The devil horns, for example, are actually devil horns--the purpose being to mock the devil, not invite the devil as was the tradition at this particular recurring festival.
Thanks for addressing this, Trent. I’ve heard more than a few people considering Catholicism point to them as reasons for their confusion and related reluctance. I appreciate your steady approach.
Agree. If someone is exploring the faith, the algorithm gives first Bp. Barron and Fr. Mike Schmitz, then quickly switches to recommending these guys. If Trent’s goal is to make it easier for people to come into the faith, then this isn’t outside of his normal goal… it is dead center right now.
Unfortunately I know people that are slipping away from there faith because of the white washing and gas lighting going on in the circles that Trent be in. But I guess those people don’t matter because according to Trent we have to try to focus to those that Trent and his circle believes will appeal to the Majority.
I’ve noticed the Circle of people that Trent be around, attract a certain temperament, and so they have the impression that that most people see things like them.
Just started the video and had to immediately pause to laugh 😂😂 I’ve never been into the deep parts of social media and am trying to keep it that way for personal reasons, so that comment came completely out of left field for me 🤣
@@TheJuddly It may look that way; but this is actually different because it’s alerting people to be more critical of what these individuals are saying and doing. Not to just dismiss everything they are saying and doing.
Trent, I have to say, I’m so grateful for your methodical, patient, and persistent work on these issues. I think many of us just get exhausted or overwhelmed at the prospect of what seems like infinite refutation, but you prove that by working just a little bit at a time persistently that we can make a huge impact. It’s really inspirational, thank you.
They mean good, but often these folks can lead simple believers like me into despair. I am glad persons like you, Mr. Fradd and Mr. Lofton try to charitably answer them.
@@hamie7624yeah I find the counter “rad Trad” can also fall into sensationalism. I don’t find “the trads” underlying gripes that wrong just that use it to sensationalize it for clicks. It’s grifting for clicks. But the same can be done to the counter. I don’t think Trent does this at all but I do find Lofton can fall into this.
i saw a video on a traditionalist you tube channel called “The Irrelevance of the Novus Ordo”… I converted in 2020 thanks nearly 200 percent to your book, Mr Horn, as well as to my very reverent novus ordo parish. That video title and the mean remarks it engendered upset me a good deal, and after praying, decided not to follow the channel any longer so as to avoid the near occasion of sin (anger). I think some more vulnerable souls might even question their faith after reading such a title.
I used to watch both Hall and Marshall but I got sick of their continual insults towards Catholics who attend novus ordo that I moved on. Sammons, Gordon and many of their guests are borderline similar in their condescending attitudes too. These guys are harming the faith even if some of their points are legit.
Thank you, Trent. I really appreciate your fair, balanced, & patient work. When I was a brand new Catholic in 2020, I began watching TM. I became radically traditional very quickly, even to the point of attending a SSPX parish. TM enjoyed making videos about Bishop Barron, & through watching I became hostile toward the Bishop. When people began vandalizing statues & chapels in CA, TM made the assertion that Bishop Barron wasn't doing anything to prevent it. This was in my own backyard, as I lived in CA at the time. I became even more hostile towards Bishop Barron. A few weeks later, I happened upon a post that showed Bishop Barron peacefully offering Mass in front of a St. Junipero Serra statue in front of many angry protestors. I thought it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen & my heart was immediately softened towards him. I checked TM's page, thinking he would post a rebuttal to his previous assertions on BB or even commend him for it. He never did. This is when I began to open my eyes about TM. I do appreciate some things I've learned from him & I am like you, Trent, in that I would still consider myself more traditional than liberal. But his assertions are problematic & it seems more like click bait than helpful. I appreciate your channel, Trent. I learn a lot from you. God bless you. ❤
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I know many traditionalist priests (icksp, sspx, etc) have all said that American catholics, whether liberal, traditionalist or in the middle are fundamentally different from catholics everywhere else and i have to agree. Of course not every single person would fall into this category but ive seen so many from both sides be so sensationalist and make mountains out of molehills, whilst us in Europe look in confusion. I'm not sure if it's the protestant founding of the US but it seems even amongst the most traditional American catholics there's this odd rejection of authority and a sort of revolutionary spirit which seems fitting more of masonic founding fathers rather than Catholics. As someone who has never attended a Novus Ordo in my life and only gone to the TLM, I can see there's a clear difference across the Atlantic, and yea i think it would do good for some of these people to stop being so reactionary to every single thing.
"...being so reactionary..." I have a tendency to listen to the reactionaries to settle things in my mind. Englander Michael Haynes has written "Catechism of Errors" to denounce the Catechism of the Catholic Church and I am grateful for his putting such arguments in print. He denounces the Vatican II council, the catechism, and the revision of canon law which have almost insidiously changed the whole substance of the Church. I wonder where the faithful bishops are, who have not objected to all the really awful things that have gone on in the last 60 years. It is also an obstacle to have to spend an hour or more listening to these drawn out arguments by some of the more popular reactionaries.
But in all seriousness, I believe this strange behavior among American Catholics can be attributed to the pervasive influence of Calvinism throughout this country's history. Charles Coulombe gave a good talk about this, and pointed out that--even though Puritanism officially died out before the Revolution--they left an indelible mark in the American psyche, so much so that even most Catholics in America have a sort of "Calvinist ghost" lingering in the backs of our minds
@@johnbenedictxviiii didn't know how to word it. As someone with both an african and american culture, and who has spent most of my like in Africa, i can definitely tell there is a difference in the practice of catholicism. It's like, Americans have a problem with authority. Even the most traditional of catholics do.
There is so much confusion in the Church and everywhere, it’s hard to know what to believe? I appreciate your even tempered approach of facts, prudence and faithfulness. Thank you and God bless you. It’s important to remember we will be judged for every word we say.
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I love listening to Taylor Marshall and many others. I understand when one has truth it doesn't mind being questioned or challenged. To not try to see if questions are valid is not truth or faith it is an emotional response and any emotional response doesn't use logic or reasoning because your prefrontal cortex isn't used. It is statistically impossible to always be right or always wrong. I applaud them trying to promote a change internally in the church instead of leaving it. Why is TLM mass being condemned? How is it a bad thing? No one can tell me why TLM mass is wrong and bad? Is it okay to cut off apart of the body of Christ?
As a traditionalist, i really appreciated this video. Folks like TM helped me a lot in my conversion a few years ago, but lately i just cant get behind a lot of the stuff coming out of online trad circles.
I watch Dr. Marshal and Counsel of Trent and Pints with Aquinas and Dr. Scott Hahn. The fact of the matter is that the Pope, Vatican, and Church are in disarray. The old Rad Trads are sometimes anal about this or that, but I also think that Trent and Pints can be way too soft or just not see the signs of the times. Best we all get along in defending the Faith.
Excellent critique. Trent I would like to say that your heart comes across in your videos. The calm, considered, charitable way in which you refute poor arguments is evident. I have never seen a vindictive side of you, because there isn't. Your arguments address the issues and are never ad hominem. God Bless!
Thank Trent. Being a traditional leaning Catholic, I appreciated the gut check regarding TM TH-camrs and totally agree about needing to be more charitable towards those we perceive are doing wrong.
Yeah. I enjoy a lot of Hall's and Marshall's content. It does bother when they make unjustified claims, even though most of their work has made me the traditionalist I am today. I hope they become more charitable, so they reach their full potential as voices in the trad community.
@@djo-dji6018 By traditional, we mean that we believe that the older form of the Latin Rite in the seven sacraments, such as the Mass and baptism, are superior to the changes made after Vatican II. Traditional is based upon liturgical opinion. We in no way deny that the new forms are invalid, which would be sedevacantism, but that for the Church to grow and reach its former greatness, it needs to move towards the older and more reverent forms of Her rites.
@djo-dji6018 You’d be surprised. We attend a church which celebrates the Novus Ordo with traditional music (chant) and lots of Latin prayers. Talking to other Catholics about it, they think we’re too “traditional.”
@@djo-dji6018 I agree, though "traditional" is the word used by people with specific preferences so we're forced to use it unless everyone decides on a better term and uses it.
Thanks Trent, I will find a way to repay all that you have done for your viewers and the Catholic Church. You always sound fair and reasonable when confronting any issue. 👌
I believe Trent absolutely nailed this topic on TM, Kennedy and other catholics making bold claims based on bs. I’m an SSPX catholic and I argue all the time against other traditionalists about very similar topics. Making false accusations against science and history with zero evidence is an offense against God and the Catholic Church teachings
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight Of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
The church has called "religiously irrelevant" the evidence that the peace-loving family used to throw dead cats into the rubbish bin. But the claim by historians which will arguably be most upsetting for followers is the recently uncovered written evidence that it was not, as thought, a lightning bolt which led to the then 21-year-old's spontaneous declaration he wanted to become a monk. Rather, it was his desperation to escape an impending arranged marriage. Source: Researchers dig up the dirt on father of Protestantism, The Guardian. 27 Oct 2008, Kate Connolly. This is based on new material arising after archaeological work done at Luther's former house, by all accounts.
I started listening to Taylor and then I would go to the Holy Mass and immediately start critiquing everything. This was so WRONG of me. Thank God I realized this and I stopped ANY critique EVER of the Holy Mass at ANYTIME whatsoever. I feel heaven now at the Holy Mass no matter where I go. I go to the Latin Mass and I go to more modern Mass with guitars. They are ALL Holy. Thank you God.
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. The truth is, it is OK to offer rightful criticism of irreverence when it happens, such as the guitars, or less than solemn approaches that some churches have in their Masses, but the important thing is, this does not make them invalid. Criticizing these irreverent elements, however, does not amount to a criticism of the Novus Ordo itself, because the Novus Ordo itself when done in the way it was intended, is not irreverent, rather the way it is being done by those who abuse it is the problem, put simply, it is user error.
I'm hoping to become Catholic and have listened to Marshall from time to time. I was finding myself discouraged when I listened to him. He is too quick to call everything "satanic" if everything is satanic then nothing is. Trent, thank you for calling this behavior out in a loving and thoughtful way.
Kennedy got that stuff about Luther from a guy called Lloyd de Jongh. Who's fluent in German and has researched Luther to a great extent. All of Lloyd's sources are available online and he has some incredible videos on his own TH-cam channel. I'm not a big fan of Kennedy but I do support Lloyd and they have done some collaboration videos. Which is actually just Lloyd lecturing Kennedy and would be just as informative without Kennedy's limited input. But Lloyd only has about 12k followers and is trying to grow his channel through larger channels. Trent should have him on. And Pints.
@@sophie6973 Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I appreciate the support, guys. I got a response from a channel admin, Kyle. "I’ve seen your name pop up quite a bit in these comments. I’ll take a look at some of these sources you’re citing. -Kyle"
Thank you Trent for reminding me what 'calumy' is. I don't intentionally spread lies about others but I've certainly listened to them and I'm ashamed to say with some eagerness. Especially online, about celebrities etc., Time to confess, time to stop.
Being Catholic doesn't mean you're perfect. I actually like listening to Taylor Marshall, Kennedy AND Trent. All bring a unique perspective. And aren't all 3 converts?? I know Trent and TM are. All three have a wonderful passion for the Church, & that's what matters most. Yeah, people will attack us for being Catholic. Doesn't matter how nice you are, how good your argument is, how passionate you are, they will attack. But the Truth will always prevail, & those who seek it will find it. There will always be detractors, no matter what, & the devil will always create division & chaos. Instead of criticizing, pray for each other - that goes for ALL of us!
This is part of the reason I am a patreon member. Trent is always balanced and the frequent reminder that we are supposed to view everyone in the most charitable light possible. I am ashamed that I NEED that constant reminder, but I do. I listen to a lot of people like Trent, clergy and laity alike, who have a more positive message and constant reminders of how we are supposed to live and act in our daily lives. Again, I am ashamed to admit, I absolutely need that and I am so grateful for Trent and others like him. Thank you for all you do!
@@phillipcummings3518 I am sure you are probably right. The current state of the Church can be very frustrating and demoralizing if you let it. So, I pray for the Church, search out positive messages without sticking my head in the sand, and I work in my own church to (hopefully) make a difference.
I really liked this video. I listen to Marshall & hall too. No-one is perfect. I hope they take the corrections. Everyone should just be focusing on get properly catechized and learning the faith and praying ( in a state of grace) We are living in crazy times.
The problem is, there are people who are already Catholic-whom maybe were thinking of coming back-and people who are not Catholic-whom maybe were thinking about converting-that come across Taylor Marshall‘s videos and decide to leave. They decide not to convert. They’re causing more harm than good. I was that person, I had left the Church for Judaism 10 years ago, and then I had a conversion and came back. Brought my husband with me, a fallen away Catholic too. I came back, and when watching videos, I started seeing all these rad trads and listening to what they were saying. I almost did not stay. I almost left again, because I said, “if what Taylor Marshall is saying is true, then that means this is not the True Church. What’s the point in coming back?” And tons of people say this exact same thing. If it weren’t for Trent Horn, Fr. Mike Schmitz, Bishop Barron, and Michael Lofton, I would’ve converted to Judaism with no regrets. They all snapped me out of that despair I felt. It’s real. It needs to be talked about!
Our whole culture is losing its' collective mind...and there are too many Catholic commentators who are circling the drain along with it. Thanks for pointing this out.
@@catherine1886 "better to pretend... that the pope isn't evil" - You should probably mention that comment in your next confession friend. Unless His Holiness has made his motives known to you and you alone, that's speculating on the state of his soul - which is a sin. And a grave one at that. This is exactly what "Judge not lest ye be judged" is referring to. His actions certainly seem to have evil consequences (i.e. TC) but these can easily be explained by incompetence or His Holiness being manipulated by bad actors. Certainly we can say "x action was evil". But the moment you say "this person is evil", you've made a judgement as to the state of their soul - which again, is a grave sin (and would be mortal with full knowledge and consent of the will - but only you know that, so I won't speculate on whether it was mortal in your case). In any case, I'd mention it to your confessor next time you go for confession. God Bless you - you're in my prayers!
"Our whole culture is losing it's collective mind" Actually the fact that you believe in such a thing as "collective mind" and "our culture" is a sign you have lost your own mind. These are the effects that leftist ideology has had on your mind. How unfortunate.
Just as much as these people should be corrected, so should fakes who wear the skin suit of Catholicism like Ahmari, Deneen, and of course the where Peter is and Fr Martin crowd
This video is so true. The biggest takeaway is: Catholics should not speak on matters that they do not have knowledge on, otherwise, they'll make us and Catholicism look stupid This is why when I'm speaking with Muslims I try more to defend Christianity than refute Islam, because I can't speak much on Islamic tradition, and don't want to claim something about Islam that is not true and look stupid in the process
Another one who’s not Catholic for us I know is Christian prince excellent man for debating Islam because he speaks Arabic. I do have to say Trent Horn has the understand that we come from a different background we’re not all made the same I pray for him like I do for all my Catholic brothers, but I am a traditionalist and I do attend the traditional Latin mass and listen to these other debaters one is a Canadian, which I am so God bless and take care
You should learn more about Islam, as they wont listen to your arguments for Christianity without refuting Islam first. And the good thing is, if you dedicate two weeks to study Islam, you will know more than 99% of muslims
Your incredibly balanced perspective, even if I don't share your opinion on the Moon landing 🌚, is a fantastic way of skillfully presenting your thoughts and an excellent example of cohesive reasoning. Thank you.
Oddly enough, Taylor Marshall really motivated my husband to convert from Protestant to Catholic, I notice many commenters (on his channel) saying the same… You were also a big help , Trent! It seems people appreciate when a Catholic is honest about the problems in today’s Church. I also want to add an encouragement to caution-I’ve noticed that you and Matt Fradd exercise greater charity with non Catholics than you do with Dr. Marshall (& Mr. Hall). I’d love to see you sit down with one or both of them in person.
My husband and I learned a lot about our faith from TM, honestly he led us down a path that changed our lives. I thank God for that! That being said, I did “part ways” from TM a couple of years ago when he started to head into territory I thought crossed lines.
So true, the Modernist Catholics are on mission to meld Catholicism with Protestantism that is why they are militant against True Orthodox Traditional Catholicism and so charitable to Protestants. It's just one of the many heresies they embrace.
The Vatican II sect thinks that non-Christian Jews are holy elder brothers in the faith, that Muslims are believers in the God of Abraham, that Buddhism is a rich spiritual tradition that leads to illumination, that Hinduism explores the divine mystery with loving confidence, they endorse the French Revolution, socialism, divorce under the guise of a 99.9% acceptance rate of "annulments", they support LGBT, they support the legalization of abortion and contraception, they give all religions except traditional Catholicism religious liberty, etc.
Taylor Marshall is harming the church - for me as an former atheist thats is interested in catholicism he is such a negative example for almost everything i always disliked in religious people
Nailed it, professor! You're right: "test everything; hold fast what is good." Also, as a TLM goer, the pew comment cracked me up - you got me clutching my pearls 😅😂😭😭🤣
A note on the apparent “Christian techno” at WYD being a “warm up” to WYD. Nothing of the sort. I was there, we started (after not sleeping through the night) with praise and worship music to wake the children at 6:30 AM, (I say this as a lady in her 30s) then we went into the DJ set at 7 AM to really wake the kids up. There was not a soul on the grass that appreciated it but the priests and bishops (especially the Eastern Catholics) who clearly got some sleep the night before, LOVED IT. Whilst we were crawling out of our sleeping bags they were floating about head bagging like the best of them. Mass wasn’t for another couple of hours and once the set fulfilled it’s waking function then we were back into praise and worship music. Honestly, as the older lady in the house, watching it make the kids groan in pain was the highlight of my morning. 😂
Sounds like most retreats I’ve been on as an attendee and a helper 😂 being a helper is definitely hard work, and I was usually one of the last to sleep and early to rise cause we were short staffed and I volunteered as cook staff. Sleep deprivation is one of those weird retreat things I hate at the time, but for some reason I love joking about once the whole thing is over 😂😅
@@jendoe9436 - my group called the DJ set the “Christian wake up rave”. Some kids managed to sleep through it, amazingly. It was so loud it would have woken the locals.
30:32 do you not see how weak this section is, Trent? It seems as though you're saying prominent Catholics must adhere to modern western orthodoxy in matters of science and culture or they risk making the Faith look foolish to non-Catholics. Dude, we believe a man was born of a Virgin, was raised from the dead, and that we have the opportunity to eat Him daily! You think the moon landing (or lack thereof) is a cause for scandal? I would point you to Christ and Him crucified.
I love that someone like Trent comes our to give people a balanced view of the forum so to speak of what others in Catholicism are saying. That helps to weigh things better in terms of different viewpoints so we can judge for ourselves instead of just taking one position on the matter.
Thank you so much Trent for this video. It was awesome. I never liked when Taylor would publicly criticize Bishop Robert Barron or constant criticism of Novus Ordo.
The hopeful universalism thing surely deserved criticism, beyond that I think nothing else. And the liturgical -reform- rewrittal was based on the assumption that the Traditional Roman Rite was so bad and full of bad developments whole sections of the Mass needed to be rewritten (take the offertory as the rewrittal par excellence).
I'm from Ecuador and I got Spanish and English videos on my feed in YT about those videos about "satanic" dj priest, etc. I'm tired to listen Catholics going to weird and dark places to defend something we don't need to believe. Thank you for making this video and all the work you do. We need to pray more for our brothers and sisters in the Church.
As someone who is a “trad” (personally don’t like the labels, I find this to be a very fair critique of online trads. Hopefully it’s comforting to hear that on the ground level, many many of us don’t take these online characters seriously. There are far better online voices like Tim Flanders for example, and even Avoiding Babylon (I enjoyed your episode on there, btw). Hopefully, more legitimate dialogue can happen between those more of your bent and the “trad” side of things. Bottom line, if we both believe the Catholic faith and are trying to become saints, in my mind, we’re on the same team.
Hi Trent, would you ever debate an SSPX priest? I think Dr Marshall and Kennedy are doing overall good work and I think it's good to challenge them to improve where they have made mistakes in their presentations, but I think it's good that at least someone is pushing for traditional Catholic views in a popular sphere. It would be good if we had more SSPX minded people doing things like this and right now the SSPX podcast is the best resource, but I'm not really aware of anyone who reaches as wide an audience as Dr Marshall does.
Taylor Marshall blatantly exploits scandal without shame and sows discord for profit. He is also intelligent enough to know what he's doing. He will be judged for it.
32:40 Trent Horn makes a BOLD claim about Taylor Marshall (from a single esoteric claim/misinterpretation of how “banned” pornography is in Japan) 🙄 Overall Trent makes some good points…. But the claim is unfounded and this looks like ignorance is libel on Trent.
He literally says “I doubt this is what Marshall had in mind”. Why are you so sensitive that you can’t even listen to what’s being said and jump straight to “He’s committing libel!!!”
The way I read the moon landing fight thing is TM making a joke because he knows you're into jiu-jitsu. And despite the context of the priest DJing, it still is satanic and scandalous at the very least. Sure he's raising money for his Parish, but at the expense of his soul. It's the music itself. There is no such thing as Christian metal, as a former metal-head. All it does is excite passions, anger and lust.
Thanks Trent. On my journey to Catholicism. I appreciate your thoughtful, knowledgeable and assertive defense of the faith. Your point is well taken. Currently in OCIA and it helps a lot. Working through the remaining questions I have. The biggest challenge for me is really in my thinking about Catholicism. The change is happening albeit slowly.
6:36 Would _you_ be OK with people shutting _you_ up, if for instance Ortlund came to find you too frustrating? The risk might be low, since you grant him too much, though!
Thanks for doing this Trent. We should all think carefully before speaking and possibly turning somebody away from the faith because they hear hatred or indeed they hear absolute nonsense coming out of our mouths. I get second hand embarrassment listening to Kennedy talking about Science tbh and I feel like gently tapping him on the shoulder and saying, 'Shushh Dude' smh
I love the last line. I usually listen to them Hall and Marshall and the gif of a crowd of people smacking their foreheads from “The Naked Gun” pops into my head.
I find really embarrassing by Catholics like Horn and this comment section who ignore priests raping boys and nuns. As though traditionalists are the problem. You’re just like our bad pope!
The church has called "religiously irrelevant" the evidence that the peace-loving family used to throw dead cats into the rubbish bin. But the claim by historians which will arguably be most upsetting for followers is the recently uncovered written evidence that it was not, as thought, a lightning bolt which led to the then 21-year-old's spontaneous declaration he wanted to become a monk. Rather, it was his desperation to escape an impending arranged marriage. Source: Researchers dig up the dirt on father of Protestantism, The Guardian. 27 Oct 2008, Kate Connolly. This is based on new material arising after archaeological work done at Luther's former house, by all accounts.
@@fura21 True. I'm not that well known. I did get a channel response on a different Luther comment, with greater, more solid evidence: "I’ve seen your name pop up quite a bit in these comments. I’ll take a look at some of these sources you’re citing. -Kyle"
@@LloydDeJongh Considering how rude and narcissistic you are, I think your channel has got way too much attention. Please, don't pollute this great Catholic channel.
@@djo-dji6018some people like to know facts, not just watch stuff that confirms their bias. I'm pretty sure Trent will look at these claims for himself and make his own mind up. Lloyd only reads the material and presents it. Hardly narcissistic is it. Shalom, shalom.
I love your videos. I can tell you put a lot of thought into things before you speak. As someone considering Catholicism myself, it’s extremely difficult to make any decisions, when it feels like there’s so much confusion from the way things are represented from others. I’ll be the first to admit, I enjoy watching many of the traditionalist videos. I feel like you seem to be more charitable in not jumping to conclusions. Now listen, I’m not saying they’re wrong either. Honestly, I don’t know what to think about some of it. I just keep praying for all those involved. Keep up the good work. I’m sure the Good Lord is using you to touch more lives than you could even begin to realize.
When Pope Benedict's brother fell ill and Benedict left Rome to visit him........ Taylor Marshall's episode that week, insinuated that there was no illness and that Pope Francis had forced Benedict out of Rome. The illness was a cover-up. Of course we all know, Benedict visited his ill brother and then returned to Rome afterward.
Nice video. I like to listen to both T.M. and K.H. podcasts and you are very correct in your observations I never noticed and it´s true. I wish they would engage with you in proper debate.
Respect to you for making this episode. Could not have been easy. God bless you and all the Catholic podcasters doing their best to spread the gospel and bring souls to Christ.
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I converted on Pentecost largely because I found Trent Horn and Matt Fradd’s channels. I was raised in a parallel Trad Protestant family culture of Fundies winding up rhetoric letting centrifugal mud fly off their the loose ends of their emotional and somewhat egotistical pot shots they called arguments. They obscure sincere, thoughtful and substitutive seekers. Our religious stand for righteousness needs no sensationalism, no weaponizing, no inflammatory rhetoric. Other than this thoughtful response by Trent, I only wish Kathryn Johnson was still alive to debate Marshall on the moon landing in Mathematical terms. Thank you, Trent. Who knew we’d need to be reminded to hate all Hitler represented and debate instead of throwing down!
Thank you for the time you take to do these videos and present a charitable, theologically sound and measured reply. This one put me over the edge and I'm now a subscriber:) Keep up the good work brother. There are many of us who are grateful. May God continue to bless your efforts.
Amen! Thank you for calling this stuff out, Trent. Very true that high-profile Catholics have an extra responsibility to measure their words and know what they’re talking about.
Trent, you did a good job on this video. Honestly, I really appreciate your work and Marshall’s and Kennedy’s. They’re human and they’ve made mistakes but they still do good work. I can’t imagine what mistakes I would make if I was suddenly given an online platform. It’s a big responsibility being a public figure, especially one that discusses the faith.
Thank you Trent. Through your sound logic, research, and grounding in FACT, you and Bishop Baron seem to be the only voices of reason for the Catholic faithful in these spiritually harrowing times. God bless 🙏🏻
What is most annoying is that we always have to be in defence, always in fear not be portrayed as foolish, while there's nothing more foolish and idiotic than claiming that everything came from nothing or that killing unborn babies is a human right. And even though science can't explain how life came about we are being mocked for believing it was created by a intelligence. And even though evolution theory has huge challenges and flaws we are still being mocked for refusing to BELIEVE in it.
Thank you Mr. Horn. I’m respectful of the insights and the clearing of a blind spot from my rear view mirrors as I travel this journey of my Catholic faith. Peace be with you.
We all as Catholics must talk to the other when the other is wrong, even though we have different points of view, we must work as brothers to fix and work it out and continue serving our Lord and our loved church.
Excellent video Trent! Actually one of the best authentically Catholic videos I've seen in quite a while. This charitable, prudential and measured approach is what more Catholic apologists should be adopting going forward.
This video is a weird feeling for me. Spot on with the criticisms. But honestly, TM was one of the major reasons in me coming into the faith. He was the first and only person that I ever really heard say we NEED to pray the rosary. I have heard it brought up in passing in groups occasionally or a priest mention that its ok to but that's about it. I would even say that I am blessed to be apart of the Diocese of Wichita, KS, which is fairly orthodox and we have good numbers of vocations every year. To me, before I started really digging into the faith (converted from Baptist), it seemed like most Catholics I met or listened to either tried to take the faith to such an abstract concept it became practically useless, or they appeared to not really care and were advocating for all sorts of craziness within the Mass and within Church doctrine. Taylor Marshall had a way of putting the impetus of salvation into my court. It seemed non-sensical that we must only go to confession once a year (as taught by the Magesterium) or that the Mass was there as a big koombya fest that was what some Catholics were telling me. He made the Faith real, and provided a real call to action regarding taking the faith seriously, as well as taking devotion to the Blessed Mother seriously. For those reasons I will forever be in his debt. He provided the shove that allowed the Holy Spirit to work in my heart and opened the doors to his Church to me.
I fully relate to what you are saying; almost impossible to discern in today's world but we keep praying for the guidance, knowing we want to do the right things in Christ. God Bless @pcola
The guy is insufferable, doesn't mean he doesn't have good aspects or even that his work isn't predominantly positive. We need to move away from fitting people into binary boxes and address problematic issues with them directly where they arise!
Woah, this guy who is that comedian Laura Horn’s husband is kinda smart. All jokes aside, thank you for the video. Looking back i believed some of these lies/misrepresentations. Hope we can all return to just being Catholics and looking at God, not at the problems in the world.
I think this is a really well done warning and reminder to all of us that we do have responsibility for what we say in a public forum and we should be careful not to speak before at least doing our best to check all the facts! Thank you Trent!
When the secularist is right and the Catholic is wrong, you should side with the secularist, because you always side with Christ, the way, the truth, and the life, when you side with truth.@@extract8058
@jackisgallant Doubt it. TM has a fairly large audience and has been pushing some very inappropriate views. More likely that Trent is just concerned about this. Especially since criticizing trads is usually like messing with a hornets nest
Sad that this critique is necessary, but it is. I'm glad you addressed these serious problems among certain "Catholic celebrities" Trent. Side note, but related. I can't help think that some of this flame-throwing and finding a demon under every rock from many in the rad trad camp is related to the crisis of healthy masculinity. Who are these guys male role models and why do they come across as so insecure in their obnoxious "flexes". Indeed, Jesus was an absolute lion at times in preaching the truth without watering it down, but I have a feeling that a lot of rad-trad would be "scandalized" if they met the real Jesus - thinking he was "weak" and even "effeminate" because of the way he loved.
I truly admire your teachings Trent horn without the e!!! I have learned so much from you. I bought a couple of your books and I’m learning so much from them!!! Thank you and God bless!!! 🙏🏼
Today I signed up for RCIA at my local parish. I fell very far away from the Faith that I grew up with. Trent you’ve been a huge reason for my reversion back to Catholicism. Thank you for what you’ve done and continue you to do. 🙏🏻 I pray that I can defend the Faith within my inner circle like you do online.
I signed up last weekend and am very excited.
PRAISE GOD!
What is RCIA?
I stopped going to Mass after confirmation in the early 70's.
I've just returned and puzzled.
For instance, I say, "And also with you " ...
But my parish is Traditional Latin Mass, I really love going but have no idea what is going on.
It's also a lot different than the huge Church I go to when I sleep late.
Don’t defend this horrible Pope or any boy raping priest! Defend Christ!
@AnarSchism. Rite of Christian Iniation for Adults, you can learn about what the church teaches and if not already confirmed, baptized or received your first holy communion you can learn about those and partake in those sacraments
This video makes me appreciate even more when Tim Gordon publicly acknowledged that having done further research he was wrong about Vatican 2. The ability to publicly admit you are wrong is sorely missed from both the trad and liberal Catholic spaces.
Yeah. Absolutely.
He did? I haven't watched the video yet (well, now, I’m currently watching). Is it mentioned in the vid? If it's true, then that's amazing!
@@freda7961he did, and mentioned that was why the T&T ceased to be
When did he do that? What video?
Wow, really? I’m only acquainted with Gordon bc other apologists have spoken about his claims. That’s progress tho! Hallelujah! ❤
I really like that Trent takes the time in his own videos to steelman criticism of his points, it demonstrates a humility and awareness that is quite admirable.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I used to listen to Taylor Marshall and Michael Voris until I found myself becoming negative about the Church and Church leaders and not being charitable like Christ told us to be. So much better now over the years I have found better Catholic people to listen to!
christineheuring5289: you need to be aware... the Church is infested with gay, errant and heretical clergy. Yes you can address those who are disgusting and violate their Holy Orders from 'day 1' with charity, but don't excuse their errant, heretical and sometimes Apostacy. It is the souls of the dependent children of tomorrow who are then the victims.
CORRECTION: Kennedy Hall has said I "lied" about him and that it was another group he worked with, and not him, who took down his video about evolution (even though "The Kennedy Report" is in the background of it). I asked him if he still agreed with everything he said in the original video and he has not yet replied. So, I retract my statement that "to his credit, Hall took the original video down." I mistakenly commended Hall for thoughtfully reconsidering what he said in light of fair criticism. It appears I was mistaken.
To be honest that was really such a small comment in your video for Kennedy to have homed in on....
I'm surprised that the weightier issues which you pointed out with charity weren't acknowledged at all.....odd!
Trent, you definitely have good will and you are a good man. But here are two things you got wrong:
1 - Belief in the Theory of Evolution (cite the evidence, lets take a look at it)
2 - Stating Bishop Barron is doing a good. How can a bishop who states we may reasonably hope that all people will be saved or that Christ is the priviledged way help save souls unless he first corrects himself? I would venture to say that many souls that take these two statements to heart are lost
I recommend that you read books by Stephen Meyer, Michael Behe, Philip Johnson, Ann Gauger, and anybody else from Discovery Institute. One simply excellent book is "Heretic: One Scientist's Journey from Darwin to Design" by Matti Leisola. The theory of evolution (which is not based on fact, but on bad philosophy) is fundamental for Marxism in all its forms. If you want to put a dent in the devil's plan for man, read some of these books. Learn about this. See if the biochemistry or fossil record matches up with what evolutionists want us to believe. God bless
Why should he respond to you and also why should he have taken it down? You got the information wrong and you condescendingly act like you have all the facts. I don't think it matters what Rutherford or whatever his name is thinks about this comments in the said video (which I did see years ago). UnRationality Rules believes its ok to genocide unborn children, so why would I give a damn about what he thinks Kennedy gets wrong about Coelacanth?? Seems like one error (if it even is one) it a hell of a lot bigger than the other. We need to ignore people like them and form and build up our own communities, not tear down other catholics. Its atheistic materalists like that long haired freak with the credibility problem, not Kennedy.ç
That's not the only thing that needs to be corrected.
The DJ feast wasn't because of a catholic tradition, the feast is about alternative medicine, and specifically about a pagan (-ish) ritual performed by a catholic priest.
Here is a video of the "exorcism" with father Fontes:
th-cam.com/video/5D3-QvhTpMw/w-d-xo.html
The older man is father Fontes, at 7:23 you can hear them asking the forces of the elements to let their friends take part in the Queimada, which is the name of the ritual and the punch which is in the large cauldron
@@nathanvangoor4979 I agree with you. And that type of music is demonic. There is an article about it in EWTN. - Sacred Music vs Satanic Music. If gregorian chant is divine, as it is, if it lifts our souls to God, the devil, distorter of all that is good must have influenced people to create music with the opposite effect. Techno seems to get close to it.
How I realized that Taylor Marshall does not check the primary source he comments on:
He released a video in a “Dear Pope Francis” children’s book. In this book, children write letters to Pope Francis and the Pope responds, the. The correspondences are published in this book. In Marshall’s video, he talks about a correspondence in which a child asks Francis about altar serving, and Francis mocks the Tridentine mass that he served as a boy.
I have read that book from cover to cover and that particular correspondence that Marshall refers to is not in the book Dear Pope Francis. He must have seen it online in picture form and never bothered to check the actual book.
Quick guide to Trads:
Rad trads - exhibit radical behavior against the Church
Mad trads - angry about the state of the Church
Sad trads - despair over the state of the Church
Glad trads - optimistic about the state of the Church
Chad trads - self explanatory
Lad trads - your friends telling you to go to the TLM for the 100th time
Bad trads - they try to be trad, but they enjoy sinning too much
Fad trads - are only trad because it’s trendy (how weird is that)
Fradd trads - have watched every interview on Pints with Aquinas
Plaid trads - wearing a polo is sacrilege, should be wearing a tux
Dad trads - you wish you had one, you wish you didn’t have one
Grad trads - educated in every facet of church history and magisterial documents
Clad trads - wear medieval armor and LARP as Crusaders
Thad trads - name at least one son Thaddeus (the rest follow after the other apostles)
Ad trads - sellouts: are you depressed, well you need the devotional stuff of St Therese of Lisieux!
Probably the best comment of all time. I commented something way too far and Trent made me delete it.
@@laurahorn Trent to Laura: "SPIT IT OUT..SPIT IT OUT RIGHT NOW"
Detracting name calling. You all forget to mention the Catholics who like Marshall and Kennedy most of all because they call out an evil pope and evil bishops and evil American president. We are being chastised with bad leaders. Face it.
Now do Novus Ordo (New Order) if its just clanging associations (Der is much easier to rhyme than Doh.)
😂😂😂 this is to good especially the plaid Trads? And Fradd Trads 😂😂 and I am a trad lol
The Catholic Church doesn't revolve just around American Catholics and what they think really.
That is something I notice a lot. American Catholics are quick to complain and whine about the Church, while Catholics in other countries don’t see any issue because they understand context much better.
🎯 sometimes they treat it like an American political party
@@jendoe9436 Some Americans can't seem to demarcate their binary politics from church theology
@@chukwurahsomadina2897you put my thoughts into words exactly. I’m American myself, but I know there is a difference between the two. I let my faith inform my politics, so I decided to not be a part of any political party. These crazies do the opposite. They let their political parties inform their faith.
Excellent point.
Thank you so much Trent for being the voice of reason and charity.
To be fair, the techno music DJ priest thing…I mean those were devil horns, that was a guy dressed in masochistic S&M leather attire, the altar and lighting was dark and for foreboding and techno music DJ parties are absolutely directly associated with MDMA and other party drugs.
I’m not a Catholic, but that’s insanely bad optics and bad decision-making for a man of the cloth imo.
Agree, Gotta be honest it is frustrating to see a Priest DJ’ing knowing that most NO perishes have 45 mins of confession a week and many times there’s a sign on the door that there’s No confession this week.
@@VirtuesrewardI call BS. Prove it.
@@anthonyhulse1248 I’m thankful that you don’t have a shared experience sir.
@@anthonyhulse1248: In my little church in Japan there are no set times for confession at all.
Hardly anybody goes to the confession recently (last couple of years). Even when there is something like a Lenten “retreat” and a visiting priest makes a special time for hearing confessions. And nearly all people attending the Holy Mass go and accept the Holy Communion.
I don’t speak Japanese, so I have to make a special appointment with a priest speaking English in order to go and make a confession.
It looks like they are trying to “cancel,” or at least suppress, this sacrament…
It’s true that there is a lack of priests - there are three priests (one is still learning Japanese) for some 10 churches and chapels in our diocese and there are some Sundays without a Holy Mass and with a “service” led by Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist (mostly females) instead.
This was explained in Trent's video. The devil horns, for example, are actually devil horns--the purpose being to mock the devil, not invite the devil as was the tradition at this particular recurring festival.
Thanks for addressing this, Trent. I’ve heard more than a few people considering Catholicism point to them as reasons for their confusion and related reluctance. I appreciate your steady approach.
Agree. If someone is exploring the faith, the algorithm gives first Bp. Barron and Fr. Mike Schmitz, then quickly switches to recommending these guys.
If Trent’s goal is to make it easier for people to come into the faith, then this isn’t outside of his normal goal… it is dead center right now.
@@FunkyKikuchiyoyes! That’s what happened to me.
Unfortunately I know people that are slipping away from there faith because of the white washing and gas lighting going on in the circles that Trent be in. But I guess those people don’t matter because according to Trent we have to try to focus to those that Trent and his circle believes will appeal to the Majority.
I’ve noticed the Circle of people that Trent be around, attract a certain temperament, and so they have the impression that that most people see things like them.
@@FunkyKikuchiyoMarshall encouraged my path to the faith so you probably shouldnt deal in absolutes and become the thing you are trying to discredit.
I love that TM challenged you to hand to hand combat to prove the moon landing was false.
That was a sentence I never thought I'd read, and I can say I have been spiritually enriched by doing so.
I think he was being facetious
Too bad Trent declined. Now we’ll never know 😢
Just started the video and had to immediately pause to laugh 😂😂
I’ve never been into the deep parts of social media and am trying to keep it that way for personal reasons, so that comment came completely out of left field for me 🤣
By that logic: shouldn't TM be fighting Joe Rogan?
👀 Let no one say that Trent Horn isn't bold
He’s feminine
@@fredo69ificationhow so??
@@fredo69ificationwrong
He is contradicting his own statement of what the catechism says to not do, ruining one’s reputation.
@@TheJuddly It may look that way; but this is actually different because it’s alerting people to be more critical of what these individuals are saying and doing. Not to just dismiss everything they are saying and doing.
COME ON Trent! That's some serious spin you're laying down at 23:00! How far will you go to explain away what people can see with their own eyes?
Trent, I have to say, I’m so grateful for your methodical, patient, and persistent work on these issues. I think many of us just get exhausted or overwhelmed at the prospect of what seems like infinite refutation, but you prove that by working just a little bit at a time persistently that we can make a huge impact. It’s really inspirational, thank you.
They mean good, but often these folks can lead simple believers like me into despair. I am glad persons like you, Mr. Fradd and Mr. Lofton try to charitably answer them.
I dont feel Lofton is all that charitable honestly. He is like the inverse of Kennedy to me.
@@hamie7624totally agree, lofton really does not have any charity
@@hamie7624 His charity has definitely taken a downturn over the years, but the substance of his critiques are still pretty good.
@@hamie7624yeah I find the counter “rad Trad” can also fall into sensationalism. I don’t find “the trads” underlying gripes that wrong just that use it to sensationalize it for clicks. It’s grifting for clicks. But the same can be done to the counter. I don’t think Trent does this at all but I do find Lofton can fall into this.
@@hamie7624how is he not charitable? Because he answers everything they put out? Maybe annoying, but he always understands them charitably.
Thank you for doing this video, Trent! Greatly appreciated!
i saw a video on a traditionalist you tube channel called “The Irrelevance of the Novus Ordo”… I converted in 2020 thanks nearly 200 percent to your book, Mr Horn, as well as to my very reverent novus ordo parish. That video title and the mean remarks it engendered upset me a good deal, and after praying, decided not to follow the channel any longer so as to avoid the near occasion of sin (anger). I think some more vulnerable souls might even question their faith after reading such a title.
Most Catholic men ought to be bettering themselves rather than being so worried about the Pope...
Thank you for posting this Trent. I know it’s a fine line between correction of brothers in the faith and speaking ill, but you did it with grace.
I used to watch both Hall and Marshall but I got sick of their continual insults towards Catholics who attend novus ordo that I moved on. Sammons, Gordon and many of their guests are borderline similar in their condescending attitudes too. These guys are harming the faith even if some of their points are legit.
Wow Kennedy does not pick on NO folks. We just pray you can have the experience of the beauty
They are Pharisees
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words.
Thank you, Trent. Please keep this type video going. It helps us to discern and use our critical thinking skills. (Mine are a little rusty.)
Great show, Trent. One of the best I've seen.
Thank you, Trent. I really appreciate your fair, balanced, & patient work. When I was a brand new Catholic in 2020, I began watching TM. I became radically traditional very quickly, even to the point of attending a SSPX parish. TM enjoyed making videos about Bishop Barron, & through watching I became hostile toward the Bishop. When people began vandalizing statues & chapels in CA, TM made the assertion that Bishop Barron wasn't doing anything to prevent it. This was in my own backyard, as I lived in CA at the time. I became even more hostile towards Bishop Barron. A few weeks later, I happened upon a post that showed Bishop Barron peacefully offering Mass in front of a St. Junipero Serra statue in front of many angry protestors. I thought it was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen & my heart was immediately softened towards him. I checked TM's page, thinking he would post a rebuttal to his previous assertions on BB or even commend him for it. He never did. This is when I began to open my eyes about TM. I do appreciate some things I've learned from him & I am like you, Trent, in that I would still consider myself more traditional than liberal. But his assertions are problematic & it seems more like click bait than helpful. I appreciate your channel, Trent. I learn a lot from you. God bless you. ❤
Thanks!
Commenting to increase the visibility of this video, as the topic is really important
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I know many traditionalist priests (icksp, sspx, etc) have all said that American catholics, whether liberal, traditionalist or in the middle are fundamentally different from catholics everywhere else and i have to agree. Of course not every single person would fall into this category but ive seen so many from both sides be so sensationalist and make mountains out of molehills, whilst us in Europe look in confusion. I'm not sure if it's the protestant founding of the US but it seems even amongst the most traditional American catholics there's this odd rejection of authority and a sort of revolutionary spirit which seems fitting more of masonic founding fathers rather than Catholics. As someone who has never attended a Novus Ordo in my life and only gone to the TLM, I can see there's a clear difference across the Atlantic, and yea i think it would do good for some of these people to stop being so reactionary to every single thing.
"Masonic Founding fathers?" You mean... America ISN'T actually a super-duper-über crypto-Catholic republic like Tim Gordon keeps saying? :O
"...being so reactionary..." I have a tendency to listen to the reactionaries to settle things in my mind. Englander Michael Haynes has written "Catechism of Errors" to denounce the Catechism of the Catholic Church and I am grateful for his putting such arguments in print. He denounces the Vatican II council, the catechism, and the revision of canon law which have almost insidiously changed the whole substance of the Church. I wonder where the faithful bishops are, who have not objected to all the really awful things that have gone on in the last 60 years. It is also an obstacle to have to spend an hour or more listening to these drawn out arguments by some of the more popular reactionaries.
But in all seriousness, I believe this strange behavior among American Catholics can be attributed to the pervasive influence of Calvinism throughout this country's history. Charles Coulombe gave a good talk about this, and pointed out that--even though Puritanism officially died out before the Revolution--they left an indelible mark in the American psyche, so much so that even most Catholics in America have a sort of "Calvinist ghost" lingering in the backs of our minds
@@johnbenedictxviiii didn't know how to word it. As someone with both an african and american culture, and who has spent most of my like in Africa, i can definitely tell there is a difference in the practice of catholicism. It's like, Americans have a problem with authority. Even the most traditional of catholics do.
Europe has fallen though as well. I think Americans don’t want the us to become extremely liberal and secular like Europe has been.
There is so much confusion in the Church and everywhere, it’s hard to know what to believe? I appreciate your even tempered approach of facts, prudence and faithfulness. Thank you and God bless you. It’s important to remember we will be judged for every word we say.
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
The confusion the radical far right càtholic commentators have made on social media have encouraged a split within the church.
I love listening to Taylor Marshall and many others. I understand when one has truth it doesn't mind being questioned or challenged. To not try to see if questions are valid is not truth or faith it is an emotional response and any emotional response doesn't use logic or reasoning because your prefrontal cortex isn't used. It is statistically impossible to always be right or always wrong. I applaud them trying to promote a change internally in the church instead of leaving it.
Why is TLM mass being condemned? How is it a bad thing? No one can tell me why TLM mass is wrong and bad? Is it okay to cut off apart of the body of Christ?
Thank you for making this video, Trent! These things need to be said. 👏🏻
As a traditionalist, i really appreciated this video. Folks like TM helped me a lot in my conversion a few years ago, but lately i just cant get behind a lot of the stuff coming out of online trad circles.
Think it is the same with me lately.
Same. I think Taylor Marshall does much more harm than good to Catholicism, I also think the likes of him do it for clicks and nothing else.
What you guys don't get is these " traditionalists commentators" are sake oil salesmen which call themselves Catholics.
Traditionalist? Are you Catholic or not?
I love tradition. I hate trads.
I watch Dr. Marshal and Counsel of Trent and Pints with Aquinas and Dr. Scott Hahn. The fact of the matter is that the Pope, Vatican, and Church are in disarray. The old Rad Trads are sometimes anal about this or that, but I also think that Trent and Pints can be way too soft or just not see the signs of the times. Best we all get along in defending the Faith.
Well done Trent. I'm a Trad. And your content is iron sharpening iron.
Excellent critique. Trent I would like to say that your heart comes across in your videos. The calm, considered, charitable way in which you refute poor arguments is evident. I have never seen a vindictive side of you, because there isn't. Your arguments address the issues and are never ad hominem. God Bless!
Very thorough, charitable and much needed video. Appreciate this!
Thank Trent. Being a traditional leaning Catholic, I appreciated the gut check regarding TM TH-camrs and totally agree about needing to be more charitable towards those we perceive are doing wrong.
Yeah. I enjoy a lot of Hall's and Marshall's content. It does bother when they make unjustified claims, even though most of their work has made me the traditionalist I am today. I hope they become more charitable, so they reach their full potential as voices in the trad community.
There's no such thing as a traditional Catholic. Either you are Catholic or not.
@@djo-dji6018 By traditional, we mean that we believe that the older form of the Latin Rite in the seven sacraments, such as the Mass and baptism, are superior to the changes made after Vatican II. Traditional is based upon liturgical opinion. We in no way deny that the new forms are invalid, which would be sedevacantism, but that for the Church to grow and reach its former greatness, it needs to move towards the older and more reverent forms of Her rites.
@djo-dji6018 You’d be surprised. We attend a church which celebrates the Novus Ordo with traditional music (chant) and lots of Latin prayers. Talking to other Catholics about it, they think we’re too “traditional.”
@@djo-dji6018 I agree, though "traditional" is the word used by people with specific preferences so we're forced to use it unless everyone decides on a better term and uses it.
Thanks Trent, I will find a way to repay all that you have done for your viewers and the Catholic Church. You always sound fair and reasonable when confronting any issue. 👌
I believe Trent absolutely nailed this topic on TM, Kennedy and other catholics making bold claims based on bs. I’m an SSPX catholic and I argue all the time against other traditionalists about very similar topics. Making false accusations against science and history with zero evidence is an offense against God and the Catholic Church teachings
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight Of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
The church has called "religiously irrelevant" the evidence that the peace-loving family used to throw dead cats into the rubbish bin.
But the claim by historians which will arguably be most upsetting for followers is the recently uncovered written evidence that it was not, as thought, a lightning bolt which led to the then 21-year-old's spontaneous declaration he wanted to become a monk. Rather, it was his desperation to escape an impending arranged marriage.
Source: Researchers dig up the dirt on father of Protestantism, The Guardian. 27 Oct 2008, Kate Connolly. This is based on new material arising after archaeological work done at Luther's former house, by all accounts.
You're sspx?
Does your bishop give permission for your parish to exist in his dioscese?
@@JazzyJacksJokeShack No, I don’t believe so.
@@JazzyJacksJokeShack The *pope* gave them facilities, so mind your own business.
I started listening to Taylor and then I would go to the Holy Mass and immediately start critiquing everything. This was so WRONG of me. Thank God I realized this and I stopped ANY critique EVER of the Holy Mass at ANYTIME whatsoever. I feel heaven now at the Holy Mass no matter where I go. I go to the Latin Mass and I go to more modern Mass with guitars. They are ALL Holy. Thank you God.
@@gabolujan3109 respect the Holy Mass and STOP critiquing and leading people away. The Holy Mass can’t be ridiculed or critiqued!!!!!!!
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. The truth is, it is OK to offer rightful criticism of irreverence when it happens, such as the guitars, or less than solemn approaches that some churches have in their Masses, but the important thing is, this does not make them invalid. Criticizing these irreverent elements, however, does not amount to a criticism of the Novus Ordo itself, because the Novus Ordo itself when done in the way it was intended, is not irreverent, rather the way it is being done by those who abuse it is the problem, put simply, it is user error.
@@paix1234 repent you heathen and leave the novus ordo
@@gabolujan3109 that's nonsense. the Catholic Church cannot make a rite of Mass that is bad.
@@joseph_mta5840 howdy. I’m just pulling peoples chain. I, a comedian
I'm hoping to become Catholic and have listened to Marshall from time to time. I was finding myself discouraged when I listened to him. He is too quick to call everything "satanic" if everything is satanic then nothing is. Trent, thank you for calling this behavior out in a loving and thoughtful way.
Kennedy got that stuff about Luther from a guy called Lloyd de Jongh.
Who's fluent in German and has researched Luther to a great extent. All of Lloyd's sources are available online and he has some incredible videos on his own TH-cam channel.
I'm not a big fan of Kennedy but I do support Lloyd and they have done some collaboration videos. Which is actually just Lloyd lecturing Kennedy and would be just as informative without Kennedy's limited input.
But Lloyd only has about 12k followers and is trying to grow his channel through larger channels.
Trent should have him on. And Pints.
This is true
Yes. I too saw that session from Lloyd
@@sophie6973 Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
I appreciate the support, guys. I got a response from a channel admin, Kyle. "I’ve seen your name pop up quite a bit in these comments. I’ll take a look at some of these sources you’re citing. -Kyle"
@@LloydDeJongh excellent 👍
Thank you Trent for reminding me what 'calumy' is. I don't intentionally spread lies about others but I've certainly listened to them and I'm ashamed to say with some eagerness. Especially online, about celebrities etc., Time to confess, time to stop.
I like your reasoning. I look forward to such rebuttals. Keep up the good work.
Being Catholic doesn't mean you're perfect. I actually like listening to Taylor Marshall, Kennedy AND Trent. All bring a unique perspective. And aren't all 3 converts?? I know Trent and TM are. All three have a wonderful passion for the Church, & that's what matters most. Yeah, people will attack us for being Catholic. Doesn't matter how nice you are, how good your argument is, how passionate you are, they will attack. But the Truth will always prevail, & those who seek it will find it.
There will always be detractors, no matter what, & the devil will always create division & chaos. Instead of criticizing, pray for each other - that goes for ALL of us!
Kennedy Hall is a cradle Catholic.
This is part of the reason I am a patreon member. Trent is always balanced and the frequent reminder that we are supposed to view everyone in the most charitable light possible. I am ashamed that I NEED that constant reminder, but I do. I listen to a lot of people like Trent, clergy and laity alike, who have a more positive message and constant reminders of how we are supposed to live and act in our daily lives. Again, I am ashamed to admit, I absolutely need that and I am so grateful for Trent and others like him. Thank you for all you do!
Even Trent Horn needs that reminder
@@phillipcummings3518 I am sure you are probably right. The current state of the Church can be very frustrating and demoralizing if you let it. So, I pray for the Church, search out positive messages without sticking my head in the sand, and I work in my own church to (hopefully) make a difference.
I really liked this video. I listen to Marshall & hall too. No-one is perfect. I hope they take the corrections. Everyone should just be focusing on get properly catechized and learning the faith and praying ( in a state of grace) We are living in crazy times.
^^THIS
The problem is, there are people who are already Catholic-whom maybe were thinking of coming back-and people who are not Catholic-whom maybe were thinking about converting-that come across Taylor Marshall‘s videos and decide to leave. They decide not to convert. They’re causing more harm than good. I was that person, I had left the Church for Judaism 10 years ago, and then I had a conversion and came back. Brought my husband with me, a fallen away Catholic too.
I came back, and when watching videos, I started seeing all these rad trads and listening to what they were saying. I almost did not stay. I almost left again, because I said, “if what Taylor Marshall is saying is true, then that means this is not the True Church. What’s the point in coming back?” And tons of people say this exact same thing. If it weren’t for Trent Horn, Fr. Mike Schmitz, Bishop Barron, and Michael Lofton, I would’ve converted to Judaism with no regrets. They all snapped me out of that despair I felt. It’s real. It needs to be talked about!
@@ntmn8444Your personal inability to handle hard truths without knee jerk reactions isn't Taylor Marshalls fault.
@@bumponalog5001 you mean taylor “I can’t see how this man (pope francis) is the vicar of Christ” marshall? Right 😂
He recently said that we must recognize Pope Francis as the Pope.
Our whole culture is losing its' collective mind...and there are too many Catholic commentators who are circling the drain along with it. Thanks for pointing this out.
Better to pretend that the world is not losing its mind, that the bishops aren’t mostly gay, that the pope isn’t evil.
@@catherine1886 "better to pretend... that the pope isn't evil" - You should probably mention that comment in your next confession friend. Unless His Holiness has made his motives known to you and you alone, that's speculating on the state of his soul - which is a sin. And a grave one at that. This is exactly what "Judge not lest ye be judged" is referring to. His actions certainly seem to have evil consequences (i.e. TC) but these can easily be explained by incompetence or His Holiness being manipulated by bad actors. Certainly we can say "x action was evil". But the moment you say "this person is evil", you've made a judgement as to the state of their soul - which again, is a grave sin (and would be mortal with full knowledge and consent of the will - but only you know that, so I won't speculate on whether it was mortal in your case). In any case, I'd mention it to your confessor next time you go for confession. God Bless you - you're in my prayers!
"Our whole culture is losing it's collective mind"
Actually the fact that you believe in such a thing as "collective mind" and "our culture" is a sign you have lost your own mind. These are the effects that leftist ideology has had on your mind. How unfortunate.
Just as much as these people should be corrected, so should fakes who wear the skin suit of Catholicism like Ahmari, Deneen, and of course the where Peter is and Fr Martin crowd
@@hacker4chn841what is TC?
Great to see this video Trent. It’s wonderful to see you give a nuanced but firm response to this section of Catholic internet space.
Trent thank you! God bless you and your ministry!!
Thanks Trent, for your outstanding ability, to reason, be reasonable, with charity; and for clearing up some of my concerns. ✌️be with you and yours
This video is so true. The biggest takeaway is: Catholics should not speak on matters that they do not have knowledge on, otherwise, they'll make us and Catholicism look stupid
This is why when I'm speaking with Muslims I try more to defend Christianity than refute Islam, because I can't speak much on Islamic tradition, and don't want to claim something about Islam that is not true and look stupid in the process
Plus, knowledge if they landed on the moon, or not, is not needed for salvation
Or if the earth is round or flat. Seems to be coming up so much. I won't engage. If it is important, I will know some day.
Well, if you’re trying to learn to refute Islam, the man for that is a Lloyd DeJong and Sam shamoun. They’re both great at debating Islam.
Another one who’s not Catholic for us I know is Christian prince excellent man for debating Islam because he speaks Arabic. I do have to say Trent Horn has the understand that we come from a different background we’re not all made the same I pray for him like I do for all my Catholic brothers, but I am a traditionalist and I do attend the traditional Latin mass and listen to these other debaters one is a Canadian, which I am so God bless and take care
You should learn more about Islam, as they wont listen to your arguments for Christianity without refuting Islam first. And the good thing is, if you dedicate two weeks to study Islam, you will know more than 99% of muslims
Your incredibly balanced perspective, even if I don't share your opinion on the Moon landing 🌚, is a fantastic way of skillfully presenting your thoughts and an excellent example of cohesive reasoning. Thank you.
Oddly enough, Taylor
Marshall really motivated my husband to convert from Protestant to Catholic, I notice many commenters (on his channel) saying the same… You were also a big help , Trent! It seems people appreciate when a Catholic is honest about the problems in today’s Church.
I also want to add an encouragement to caution-I’ve noticed that you and Matt Fradd exercise greater charity with non Catholics than you do with Dr. Marshall (& Mr. Hall). I’d love to see you sit down with one or both of them in person.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
My husband and I learned a lot about our faith from TM, honestly he led us down a path that changed our lives. I thank God for that! That being said, I did “part ways” from TM a couple of years ago when he started to head into territory I thought crossed lines.
@@catholicmama1572 What do you mean he got into "territory that crossed lines"?
So true, the Modernist Catholics are on mission to meld Catholicism with Protestantism that is why they are militant against True Orthodox Traditional Catholicism and so charitable to Protestants. It's just one of the many heresies they embrace.
@@MPFXT go to 39:00
Leaving radical traditionalism was the best thing I ever did for my faith, only second to becoming Catholic in the first place. #TRADLite
The Vatican II sect thinks that non-Christian Jews are holy elder brothers in the faith, that Muslims are believers in the God of Abraham, that Buddhism is a rich spiritual tradition that leads to illumination, that Hinduism explores the divine mystery with loving confidence, they endorse the French Revolution, socialism, divorce under the guise of a 99.9% acceptance rate of "annulments", they support LGBT, they support the legalization of abortion and contraception, they give all religions except traditional Catholicism religious liberty, etc.
Glad trads ftw! Ignore the nutjobbery of (comment redacted) 😅
@@TheRomanCatholicChurch The “Vatican II Sect” you talk about is the Catholic Church. Shut up dude, quit trolling.
I see what you're saying but Dr. Taylor Marshall is right and we can tell the difference
Taylor Marshall is harming the church - for me as an former atheist thats is interested in catholicism he is such a negative example for almost everything i always disliked in religious people
Nailed it, professor! You're right: "test everything; hold fast what is good." Also, as a TLM goer, the pew comment cracked me up - you got me clutching my pearls 😅😂😭😭🤣
A note on the apparent “Christian techno” at WYD being a “warm up” to WYD. Nothing of the sort. I was there, we started (after not sleeping through the night) with praise and worship music to wake the children at 6:30 AM, (I say this as a lady in her 30s) then we went into the DJ set at 7 AM to really wake the kids up. There was not a soul on the grass that appreciated it but the priests and bishops (especially the Eastern Catholics) who clearly got some sleep the night before, LOVED IT. Whilst we were crawling out of our sleeping bags they were floating about head bagging like the best of them. Mass wasn’t for another couple of hours and once the set fulfilled it’s waking function then we were back into praise and worship music. Honestly, as the older lady in the house, watching it make the kids groan in pain was the highlight of my morning. 😂
Sounds like most retreats I’ve been on as an attendee and a helper 😂 being a helper is definitely hard work, and I was usually one of the last to sleep and early to rise cause we were short staffed and I volunteered as cook staff. Sleep deprivation is one of those weird retreat things I hate at the time, but for some reason I love joking about once the whole thing is over 😂😅
Dearest, you talk like you were 65yo, but you are in your 30s, you were also a child not long ago.
@@djo-dji6018 - when you’re around 16 year olds, you start to feel old very quickly.
@@jendoe9436 - my group called the DJ set the “Christian wake up rave”. Some kids managed to sleep through it, amazingly. It was so loud it would have woken the locals.
30:32 do you not see how weak this section is, Trent? It seems as though you're saying prominent Catholics must adhere to modern western orthodoxy in matters of science and culture or they risk making the Faith look foolish to non-Catholics.
Dude, we believe a man was born of a Virgin, was raised from the dead, and that we have the opportunity to eat Him daily! You think the moon landing (or lack thereof) is a cause for scandal? I would point you to Christ and Him crucified.
I love that someone like Trent comes our to give people a balanced view of the forum so to speak of what others in Catholicism are saying. That helps to weigh things better in terms of different viewpoints so we can judge for ourselves instead of just taking one position on the matter.
Trent, I truly enjoyed your logic it gave me a different perspective! Thank you
Thank you so much Trent for this video. It was awesome. I never liked when Taylor would publicly criticize Bishop Robert Barron or constant criticism of Novus Ordo.
The hopeful universalism thing surely deserved criticism, beyond that I think nothing else. And the liturgical -reform- rewrittal was based on the assumption that the Traditional Roman Rite was so bad and full of bad developments whole sections of the Mass needed to be rewritten (take the offertory as the rewrittal par excellence).
I'm from Ecuador and I got Spanish and English videos on my feed in YT about those videos about "satanic" dj priest, etc. I'm tired to listen Catholics going to weird and dark places to defend something we don't need to believe. Thank you for making this video and all the work you do. We need to pray more for our brothers and sisters in the Church.
As someone who is a “trad” (personally don’t like the labels, I find this to be a very fair critique of online trads. Hopefully it’s comforting to hear that on the ground level, many many of us don’t take these online characters seriously. There are far better online voices like Tim Flanders for example, and even Avoiding Babylon (I enjoyed your episode on there, btw). Hopefully, more legitimate dialogue can happen between those more of your bent and the “trad” side of things. Bottom line, if we both believe the Catholic faith and are trying to become saints, in my mind, we’re on the same team.
Im not impressed by avoiding babylon after i saw that the 1 guy there thinks pope francis doesn't believe in evangelization
@@justsomevids4541 he's publicly stated that he doesn't.
@@kevinnickel7529 you're a liar. He has said on numerous times that he supports evangelization. Just another papal slanderer
@@justsomevids4541 cope harder, Sally.
@@kevinnickel7529 stop sinning, anti-catholic
Show me the facts
Hi Trent, would you ever debate an SSPX priest? I think Dr Marshall and Kennedy are doing overall good work and I think it's good to challenge them to improve where they have made mistakes in their presentations, but I think it's good that at least someone is pushing for traditional Catholic views in a popular sphere. It would be good if we had more SSPX minded people doing things like this and right now the SSPX podcast is the best resource, but I'm not really aware of anyone who reaches as wide an audience as Dr Marshall does.
Taylor Marshall blatantly exploits scandal without shame and sows discord for profit. He is also intelligent enough to know what he's doing. He will be judged for it.
I have to agree, unfortunately.
Sounds like you’ve already done that.
Yes! Exactly! What he’s doing isn’t right.
@@TP-om8ofDone what?
@@MeanBeanComedy Judged TM!
32:40 Trent Horn makes a BOLD claim about Taylor Marshall (from a single esoteric claim/misinterpretation of how “banned” pornography is in Japan) 🙄 Overall Trent makes some good points…. But the claim is unfounded and this looks like ignorance is libel on Trent.
He literally says “I doubt this is what Marshall had in mind”. Why are you so sensitive that you can’t even listen to what’s being said and jump straight to “He’s committing libel!!!”
The way I read the moon landing fight thing is TM making a joke because he knows you're into jiu-jitsu. And despite the context of the priest DJing, it still is satanic and scandalous at the very least. Sure he's raising money for his Parish, but at the expense of his soul. It's the music itself. There is no such thing as Christian metal, as a former metal-head. All it does is excite passions, anger and lust.
Thanks Trent. On my journey to Catholicism. I appreciate your thoughtful, knowledgeable and assertive defense of the faith. Your point is well taken. Currently in OCIA and it helps a lot. Working through the remaining questions I have. The biggest challenge for me is really in my thinking about Catholicism. The change is happening albeit slowly.
6:36 Would _you_ be OK with people shutting _you_ up, if for instance Ortlund came to find you too frustrating?
The risk might be low, since you grant him too much, though!
Thanks for doing this Trent. We should all think carefully before speaking and possibly turning somebody away from the faith because they hear hatred or indeed they hear absolute nonsense coming out of our mouths. I get second hand embarrassment listening to Kennedy talking about Science tbh and I feel like gently tapping him on the shoulder and saying, 'Shushh Dude' smh
I love the last line. I usually listen to them Hall and Marshall and the gif of a crowd of people smacking their foreheads from “The Naked Gun” pops into my head.
I find really embarrassing by Catholics like Horn and this comment section who ignore priests raping boys and nuns. As though traditionalists are the problem. You’re just like our bad pope!
The church has called "religiously irrelevant" the evidence that the peace-loving family used to throw dead cats into the rubbish bin.
But the claim by historians which will arguably be most upsetting for followers is the recently uncovered written evidence that it was not, as thought, a lightning bolt which led to the then 21-year-old's spontaneous declaration he wanted to become a monk. Rather, it was his desperation to escape an impending arranged marriage.
Source: Researchers dig up the dirt on father of Protestantism, The Guardian. 27 Oct 2008, Kate Connolly. This is based on new material arising after archaeological work done at Luther's former house, by all accounts.
Its clear Trent hasn't watched your videos with Sam Shamoun
@@fura21 True. I'm not that well known. I did get a channel response on a different Luther comment, with greater, more solid evidence: "I’ve seen your name pop up quite a bit in these comments. I’ll take a look at some of these sources you’re citing. -Kyle"
@@LloydDeJongh Considering how rude and narcissistic you are, I think your channel has got way too much attention. Please, don't pollute this great Catholic channel.
@@djo-dji6018some people like to know facts, not just watch stuff that confirms their bias. I'm pretty sure Trent will look at these claims for himself and make his own mind up. Lloyd only reads the material and presents it. Hardly narcissistic is it.
Shalom, shalom.
Well said, and it needed to be said well. Thank you for posting.
I love your videos. I can tell you put a lot of thought into things before you speak. As someone considering Catholicism myself, it’s extremely difficult to make any decisions, when it feels like there’s so much confusion from the way things are represented from others. I’ll be the first to admit, I enjoy watching many of the traditionalist videos. I feel like you seem to be more charitable in not jumping to conclusions. Now listen, I’m not saying they’re wrong either. Honestly, I don’t know what to think about some of it. I just keep praying for all those involved.
Keep up the good work. I’m sure the Good Lord is using you to touch more lives than you could even begin to realize.
When Pope Benedict's brother fell ill and Benedict left Rome to visit him........ Taylor Marshall's episode that week, insinuated that there was no illness and that Pope Francis had forced Benedict out of Rome. The illness was a cover-up.
Of course we all know, Benedict visited his ill brother and then returned to Rome afterward.
Nice video. I like to listen to both T.M. and K.H. podcasts and you are very correct in your observations I never noticed and it´s true. I wish they would engage with you in proper debate.
Respect to you for making this episode. Could not have been easy. God bless you and all the Catholic podcasters doing their best to spread the gospel and bring souls to Christ.
Nothing but sound arguments and advice. Thanks, Trent.
Luther and prostitutes: [Luther] wrote to ... Georg Spalatin during his stay at the Wartburg, by turns asking him for laxatives and entrusting him with his manuscripts, or when, in some of his very last letters to his wife, he described his inability to be sexually aroused by the sight of prostitutes and blamed Jews for his illness ... JStor reference 23302574, also American Historical Review / National Library of Medicine article "Martin Luther's Body: The "Stout Doctor" and His Biographers, by historian and Luther biographer Lyndal Roper
God bless you, I have great respect for the way you handle situations like this Trent!
I converted on Pentecost largely because I found Trent Horn and Matt Fradd’s channels. I was raised in a parallel Trad Protestant family culture of Fundies winding up rhetoric letting centrifugal mud fly off their the loose ends of their emotional and somewhat egotistical pot shots they called arguments. They obscure sincere, thoughtful and substitutive seekers. Our religious stand for righteousness needs no sensationalism, no weaponizing, no inflammatory rhetoric. Other than this thoughtful response by Trent, I only wish Kathryn Johnson was still alive to debate Marshall on the moon landing in Mathematical terms. Thank you, Trent. Who knew we’d need to be reminded to hate all Hitler represented and debate instead of throwing down!
Thank you for the time you take to do these videos and present a charitable, theologically sound and measured reply. This one put me over the edge and I'm now a subscriber:) Keep up the good work brother. There are many of us who are grateful. May God continue to bless your efforts.
Oh wow…I had no idea that was a certain Portuguese tradition. I would have totally thought it satanic too. Thanks for clarifying.
It may not have been satanic, but it was evil
Thank you, Trent
Amen! Thank you for calling this stuff out, Trent. Very true that high-profile Catholics have an extra responsibility to measure their words and know what they’re talking about.
Well done Trent. You are the premier Catholic TH-camr and the work you do is so important!
Trent, you did a good job on this video. Honestly, I really appreciate your work and Marshall’s and Kennedy’s. They’re human and they’ve made mistakes but they still do good work. I can’t imagine what mistakes I would make if I was suddenly given an online platform. It’s a big responsibility being a public figure, especially one that discusses the faith.
Thank you Trent. Through your sound logic, research, and grounding in FACT, you and Bishop Baron seem to be the only voices of reason for the Catholic faithful in these spiritually harrowing times. God bless 🙏🏻
What is most annoying is that we always have to be in defence, always in fear not be portrayed as foolish, while there's nothing more foolish and idiotic than claiming that everything came from nothing or that killing unborn babies is a human right.
And even though science can't explain how life came about we are being mocked for believing it was created by a intelligence.
And even though evolution theory has huge challenges and flaws we are still being mocked for refusing to BELIEVE in it.
You’re right.
The James Webb Telescope will resolve some of the misconceptions about the beginning of the world we have held for thousands of years.
@@david-nt3cz Or maybe it won't.
Thank you Mr. Horn. I’m respectful of the insights and the clearing of a blind spot from my rear view mirrors as I travel this journey of my Catholic faith. Peace be with you.
We all as Catholics must talk to the other when the other is wrong, even though we have different points of view, we must work as brothers to fix and work it out and continue serving our Lord and our loved church.
Excellent video Trent! Actually one of the best authentically Catholic videos I've seen in quite a while. This charitable, prudential and measured approach is what more Catholic apologists should be adopting going forward.
This video is a weird feeling for me. Spot on with the criticisms. But honestly, TM was one of the major reasons in me coming into the faith. He was the first and only person that I ever really heard say we NEED to pray the rosary. I have heard it brought up in passing in groups occasionally or a priest mention that its ok to but that's about it. I would even say that I am blessed to be apart of the Diocese of Wichita, KS, which is fairly orthodox and we have good numbers of vocations every year.
To me, before I started really digging into the faith (converted from Baptist), it seemed like most Catholics I met or listened to either tried to take the faith to such an abstract concept it became practically useless, or they appeared to not really care and were advocating for all sorts of craziness within the Mass and within Church doctrine.
Taylor Marshall had a way of putting the impetus of salvation into my court. It seemed non-sensical that we must only go to confession once a year (as taught by the Magesterium) or that the Mass was there as a big koombya fest that was what some Catholics were telling me. He made the Faith real, and provided a real call to action regarding taking the faith seriously, as well as taking devotion to the Blessed Mother seriously. For those reasons I will forever be in his debt. He provided the shove that allowed the Holy Spirit to work in my heart and opened the doors to his Church to me.
I fully relate to what you are saying; almost impossible to discern in today's world but we keep praying for the guidance, knowing we want to do the right things in Christ. God Bless @pcola
I will give him points for encouraging the Rosary.
Same happened to me
The guy is insufferable, doesn't mean he doesn't have good aspects or even that his work isn't predominantly positive. We need to move away from fitting people into binary boxes and address problematic issues with them directly where they arise!
Woah, this guy who is that comedian Laura Horn’s husband is kinda smart.
All jokes aside, thank you for the video. Looking back i believed some of these lies/misrepresentations. Hope we can all return to just being Catholics and looking at God, not at the problems in the world.
💯 Trent. Thank you and God Bless!
Trent Horn..God Bless You!!!! You are a voice of reason....in which we soooo badly need!!!
I think this is a really well done warning and reminder to all of us that we do have responsibility for what we say in a public forum and we should be careful not to speak before at least doing our best to check all the facts! Thank you Trent!
I’m very grateful for Trent Horn. We need more common sense voices instead of clout chasers like Taylor Marshall.
How is Woodford a "common sense voice" ? It's concerning when a self proclaimed Catholic sides with secularists over his fellow Catholics...
When the secularist is right and the Catholic is wrong, you should side with the secularist, because you always side with Christ, the way, the truth, and the life, when you side with truth.@@extract8058
@@extract8058not when the fellow Catholics are 🤡 like TM
@@jackisgallantsadly enough, it was saddening to find out that Catholic social media is as clicky as regular social media.
@jackisgallant Doubt it. TM has a fairly large audience and has been pushing some very inappropriate views. More likely that Trent is just concerned about this. Especially since criticizing trads is usually like messing with a hornets nest
Sad that this critique is necessary, but it is. I'm glad you addressed these serious problems among certain "Catholic celebrities" Trent.
Side note, but related. I can't help think that some of this flame-throwing and finding a demon under every rock from many in the rad trad camp is related to the crisis of healthy masculinity. Who are these guys male role models and why do they come across as so insecure in their obnoxious "flexes".
Indeed, Jesus was an absolute lion at times in preaching the truth without watering it down, but I have a feeling that a lot of rad-trad would be "scandalized" if they met the real Jesus - thinking he was "weak" and even "effeminate" because of the way he loved.
Wow, i can't stop watching this program. Good on you Trent❤❤❤
I truly admire your teachings Trent horn without the e!!! I have learned so much from you. I bought a couple of your books and I’m learning so much from them!!! Thank you and God bless!!! 🙏🏼