Personally I believe Agnes only wanted a son. When Karen was born she doted on Richard and paid less attention on Karen and was critical of her. Agnes was "the spokesperson" of the family and was vocal about her opinions without regard to.others. Agnes was a narcissist.
I heard that Karen was a preemie. I wonder what Agnes's attitude was towards Karen in the womb and if she might have tried to get rid of her or something.
When a parent denies accepting a child as an equal, it causes extreme insecurity. Agnes was more in competition with Karen than a loving mother as she was to Richard. Agnes was pushing her own insecurities on Karen and probably not fully aware she was doing it. Perfection was also a danger to Karen and us all that fall victim to it.
Her mother didn't love her. In fact, she never once told Karen that she loved her. Her mother adored Karen's brother Richard, though. It sounds like Narcissism to me, and it's also Child Abuse. Thanks Brad.
There’s a home video of one of Karen’s Birthdays that you need to take a look at. It’s after they are already famous. As the video progresses Karen is sitting on the floor starting to open presents, Richard and the mother are sitting on a step a few feet away. There is a young man sitting on the floor by Karen and 2 older ladies sitting to the side of Karen. What really struck me was Karen’s body language. If you watch it you’ll notice how, to me, it looks as though Karen is trying to make herself as small as possible. She almost bends over so much she’s in a ball. Yes, the sun rose and set on Richard as far as Agnes was concerned and didn’t mind telling everyone she thought that. Karen was raised in an atmosphere of “your brother is a musical genius, and everything the family does is to help his career”. When thats all you’ve heard your entire life, you have no reason to believe you can do anything other than tell everyone how great your bother is. Karen actually said in an interview “I didn’t know I could do a blasted thing” she was talking in reference to her drum playing and singing. They had asked how she got into the marching band, to get out of gym class. The story goes on from there. When she found her lower register she actually got a solo contract before they became “The Carpenters” to cut a single 45 but Agnes told record label that if they wanted Karen they had to take Richard. So that cut Karen’s solo career right out of the gate.
My Uncle was a music producer at A&M RECORDS HOLLYWOOD from 1969-1995. He actually produced THE CARPENTERS. I visited my Uncle yearly every summer and boy can I tell you the stories from 70s 80s at that studio! Karen was a very kind lady at all times in that studio....Richard pushed her buttons frequently!
Was it real obvious Agnes had no empathy? I think what bothers me most about Karen's story is pressure on her to be lead singer (and basically run shows). I heard she was painfully shy. Not all drummers can sing either, and Agnes chose to be disappointed in her little girl rather than being proud of her. 😥
I would love to here the stories. I figured that Richard pushed her buttons. I think he's a lot like his mother. My question is why didn't Harold stand up for Karen? Try to protect her from the attacks from both mother and brother? I believe her feath has greatly affected Richard especially wirh the death of a over bearing mother.
I read the book you mentioned. It sounds like the mother felt the sun rose and set on Richard. Everything they did was for him. Karen was more of an after thought. It does seem like her life was controlled by her mom and to some degree Richard and the record company. Its so sad to think someone with as much talent as she had and she sounded like a very kind and gentle person had no self esteem.
@@rickredmond9847 Thank you😊. I’ve been watching the “behavioral panel” to learn body language here on you tube. But I also know due to my own childhood pics and what they convey. I still have one of Karen’s songs in my head two weeks later. Love her voice.
Imagine being subjected to her domineering mother all the time and whatever you do is never good enough. Always looking for love that we'll never come.
After watching many interviews & documentaries I believe Agnes was controlling, cold, emotionally abusive to Karen and doted on Richard. I also believe Richard was an angry, controlling, egomaniac that resented the fact that although he was talented he needed Karen's golden voice to make it. He sabotaged her solo album. He sabotaged her recovery (telling her she didn't need therapy, just a few good meals). I believe he didn't want her to get to the roots of her disorder in therapy because family secrets would be revealed. I believe he was her abuser. And perhaps not just emotionally. ALLEGEDLY of course.
In addition to being a lifelong, loyal Carpenters fan (I was a 70's kid), I am also a PsyD student/candidate. This is very well done analysis. Very insightful and informative. Great work!
Brad, though I never had the pleasure of meeting her, I have always loved Karen Carpenter and her music. I have read everything I could find about her life. The single best source of information was the book called "Little Girl Blue" and it was written by Randy Schmidt. It was carefully researched and supplemented by personal interviews with Karen's friends and relatives. He spent a year researching and writing it. Disclaimer: I get absolutely nothing if anyone buys this book. I just want folks who love Karen to know more about her, if they want to.
Randy's book was very superficial and was about telling a story more than about Karen. A lot was left out and Randy's sources had some things to hide as well. Try this page www.theeaceman.com/littlegirlblue.html for a bit more in depth discussion about Randy's book (and what was missing and such). About Karen, try this page www.theeaceman.com/karenlastdays.html as it includes a lot of stuff Randy and many others have missed (some things intentionally left out, others weren't known until recently). Note, the guy writing the web pages gets nothing except a better conscience out of it. Thanks for sharing drogersnm. Oops, and I forgot (as usual lately with this stuff) Randy's book was mostly what they call 'subjective' (opinionated) material and not that much 'objective' (matter of fact) material. A lot of opinions and second guessing in Randy's book if you read it closely (I feel, I thought, that kind of stuff instead of "Karen told me..." or such). I felt that Ray Coleman's "The Untold Story" was a lot more objective but did have some flaws as well www.theeaceman.com/untoldstory94.html .
I read that book and by the time I was finished reading it I was in tears. In some ways I can relate. My brother was also the golden child and I was chopped liver. At least we have her on video and recordings of her beautiful voice. Very talented and beautiful person.
Brad Shore, LMFT Richard isn’t a piece of cake, either. He enforced the “rules” about Karen, and used them to his advantage til it backfired and she died.
What I'd like to know is where was the father in all this? Sounds like her mother ruled with as n iron fist. Her only concern was for her son. She acted as s if she had no daughter. Poor Karen.
The only type of person who would allow themselves to be dominated by their wife would be somebody who was dominated by their mother or bullied by their father and was beaten down to become a people pleaser, like Karen. Family dynamics. In dysfunctional families it seems you either become passive, aggressive or passive aggressive.
What I know about Karen Carpenter is that there is a very good chance that she is JOAN OF ARC. You can't tell me that there are any real significant differences in the two lives of Karen and Joan. Joan may have been a victim of emotional incest. Her father Jacques was a very domineering family member to Joan. Joan couldn't please him. Jacques favored Joan's brothers and their wives. Jacques told Joan that he would kill her and that if he could not bring himself to doing it that her brothers should kill her. Why? Because Jacques had a dream that Joan left home with soldiers. To Jacques, the only girls who ran off with armies were whores (camp followers). Joan had to lie to her father to leave home to run off to war. She told her father that she was going to her pregnant aunt's home to help her because her labor was nearing. Joan the Virgin was herself pregnant at the time because the archangel Michael had made the ANNUNCIATION to her that she would soon bring forth a son called the sacred kingdom of France, the Tribe of Judah of the New Covenant. -- Pope Saint Pius X and Book of Revelation chapter 12. Mary Magdalene has told me in recent years that Joan of Arc is her divine twin sister ("matching twin fawns of a gazelle" -- Song of Solomon). Karen Carpenter, under regression therapy hypnosis to treat her anorexia nervosa, revealed to her therapist, in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages, that she had lived a past life as Mary Magdalene. What have biographers such as Randy L Schmidt said about Karen Carpenter? "Karen Carpenter is the preeminent martyr of easy listening, the Joan of Arc of soft rock." "I AM the drum upon which God is beating out his message" -- Joan of Arc. Karen Carpenter was one hell of a drummer, as well as a lead vocalist. Karen and Joan both rose to world fame in their late teens. Both had a close mentor (Joan's was the archangel Michael, and Karen's was her brother Richard). Both died tragic deaths at a young age (Joan was 19, and Karen was 32). Both were tomboys. Both were stars on earth as well as in heaven. This is the epitaph of Karen Carpenter at her grave. The Pope in Rome, Pius X, called Joan of Arc a shining new star destined to be the GLORY of both France and the Universal Church. Revelation 12 says that a crown of 12 stars is upon her head.
I watched her special on TH-cam, and I was wondering if maybe she was having an incestuous relationship with her brother. I started looking around for information and found you. So, yeah. Certainly something in her family. Richard's demeanor is that special to me, he appeared to have a lot of anxiety and rigidity or something.
Depending when the recording that you're talking about was made, the stress we see in his body language could be that she was in the process of killing herself and the stress of performing only made things worse for her. I think the family dynamics here were really odd because of the effect of the domineering mother. I think it must have damaged the son as well as the daughter to be on the receiving end of such favouritism because it skews your whole outlook on life
Don’t be silly. Richard was an ordinary clueless older brother who was not equipped to save his sister. Most young men would be equally clueless. The problem was the mother.
@@ravenel2 Richard was anything but ordinary or clueless, there's always more than one sick person in a family. I'm sure Richard gave off the same vibe to Karen as the mother. That "I'm the star here not you " vibe even though the world BARELY knew about Richard.
I wouldnt put the word incest in it...thats a bit of a strange word to add to it..i was in a similar situation as karen my brother was favourite spoiled i was in the background of him up until these last few years due to him being not interested in our elderly mothers care and me being the one to make sure she has food and other necessities...he doesnt care about anyone but him..but yes it can cause anorexia and bulimia but throw someone with insecurities and bad body image out into the limelight and be sure it will be made so much more worse and severe. we see this a lot in celebritys...but most do recover our karen did not..
I know where your coming frim my brother was the favored child in pur family. He could do no wtong and I could do no right. After my mom died from cancer he thought he was giing to brow beat me like our mother did.
I couldn't have a favorite color without criticism. The damage my 'mother' did to my psyche, my life. There was no getting away, even when I was on my own. Odd this info is coming into my life now. Hmmmmmmm
Very good analysis! And additionally, Karen had this extreme musical brother-sister-bondage like twins so that her brother even wore the same suit as the groom at her wedding. Richard delivered the sweetest music ever on her wedding day.
Emotional incest or Stockholm syndrome? Whatever caused her actions, Karen was suffering from several medical conditions aside from anorexia. Diabetes for one, as her blood sugar level was 1110 when taken after her collapse. The autopsy showed she had enlarged porta hepatic lymph nodes on her liver, a sign of hepititus B and or C, and numerous needle marks in her groin area, suggesting drug usage and shared needles. Could something nefarious been planned prior to signing her divorce papers? Lots of questions remain.
@@roddor7254 The bottom of the autopsy has the statement from Downey Community Hospital, citing blood sugar level and cause of death. The other items are in the autopsy report , and the fact they weren't addressed specifically could have been for many reasons, as in most Hollywood deaths. This was, remember, 38 years ago, and Karen was everyone's sweetheart.
@@roddor7254 Google for yourself enlarged porta hepatic lymph nodes. Indicative of hepatitis. Diabetes, hepatitis, known arrhythmia history, and normal body weight. Numerous needle marks visible very disturbing. The poor girl needed help and loving guidance.
I don't know if this link will take, but it is a simple explanation of cocaine usage with diabetes. Seems to be close to the mark: www.diabetes.co.uk/recreational-drugs/cocaine.html
Thank you SO much for sharing your insight as to why Karen became anorexic! When Karen was suffering from Anorexia not much was known about it so to many it was Karen "over dieting" when in reality is much more than that! Karen wanted to be the perfect daughter..the perfect sister..the perfect wife..that's just too many perfects for one young lady to handle! Agnes was very cold towards Karen...the sun set and rose on Richard! Karen idolized Rich and did everything he did...I believe she absolutely looked up to Richard but I'm the same I think she thought..IF I do what my big brother does maybe mom.will show me that same kind of attention but that's just my opinion! Karen had very low self-esteem...she thought she was fat..didn't think she was a good singer.even after John Lennon said to her " I just want to tell you love you have a most fabulous voice" she told her then boyfriend...He couldn't have meant it! Karen never thought she was pretty enough! She had a passion for drums so took lessons and played them on stage and sang but Big brother wasn't having it...he wanted her out from behind the drums and front and center so the people could see her! I believe that's when her insecurities escalated..now they could see every pound and judge her for her hair her clothes ECT.. Karen was a sweetheart who was happy with the fame but what she longed for was a house with a picket fence..a loving husband and children and drive a station wagon! She needed to be more in control of her life and sadly the control killed her! Thank you again! Sorry for rambling LoL!
thank you Tonya for sharing your thoughts..... I feel the same way..... I just heard that her brother helped, he loved her, I saw him in the interview how he supported her...... I think that we are dealing with the mother's emotional coldness which may have pushed her towards the cause of that illness..... and also with that spouse who is not worthy of her...... all such emotional coldness of those people, the inability to understand her, to support, the simplest thing to do is to love - it affected Karen……. but WE love you Karen ...... wherever you are 💗💗💗 .....
I really love karen C’s voice, one of a kind!! ...as I really get strength out of what you bring ❤️.. as I try not to have a eating disorder, as I know my muscles need proteins...
Someone did something to her ! It’s extremely sad I don’t know if it was the brother or dad but there’s something dark all I can say is I pray she’s at peace and she was able to work out things somewhat she made a great debut album to I know she was excited about making it. I don’t trust that brother something doesn’t sit well with me
Did you ever have a chance to read the Schmidt book? It's an absolute must for anyone interested in Karen, great music and/or psychology. Your analysis is spot-on.
I read the book little girl blue it's very nice and sad because you know how it ends makes you a little bit mad when you read how Richard was treated compared to Karen the same author wants to do movie hopefully an independent film for Karen Carpenter I'm hoping I can get out there on Netflix or something so that everyone can see what this beautiful star was all about God bless stay safe bye
I think she had a thing for her brother. There were rumors floating around about this, and that she was jealous of his girlfriend(s), etc. In fact, in the movie made about them, this was clearly shown.
It may also be that she suffered from undiagnosed emotional incest toward her brother as her unobtainable lover or husband. This being the case, it could explain why none of her relationships lasted beause no man could replace the closeness and dependency she had with her brother. While her and her brother may not have had sex, it would not surprise me if they often shared the same room or bed on tour ostensibly to collaborate between shows - even without sex. Perhaps her desire for being thin was driven by an obsession to look attractive to her brother or later as a manipulative tactic to win his attention in her harrowing hospital trips? Do male victims of emotional incest who never have sex with their single or divorced moms and often sleep together later develop a desire for taboo videos or interest in a relationships that involve cuck lifestyle?
🥁🎶 ... I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend ... 🎶🥁 Couldn't do for your daughter like Geddy and Alex did for Neil. You suck, Agnes!! My late hubby always thought Richard put the Pee in Pianist too. Wants to be a gd orchestra conductor or something...
I think you hit the bulls eye on your explanation. Thing is as much as her brother loved her , deep down I believe he knows this to be true and it haunts him and I think this this is why he does'nt like to talk too much about her illness. You can see proof of this in endorsement of the latest Carpenters book that came out this past November. When promoting it he said he wanted the book to focus on the music of the Carpenters and Less on Karen's Tragic ending.
Like say," Negative evens happens today will not serve the presence, but teaches the future generations to come. Praise the souls suffering for us. If not for their suffering, we would not gain more open hearts and minds.
Personally I believe Agnes only wanted a son. When Karen was born she doted on Richard and paid less attention on Karen and was critical of her. Agnes was "the spokesperson" of the family and was vocal about her opinions without regard to.others. Agnes was a narcissist.
I heard that Karen was a preemie. I wonder what Agnes's attitude was towards Karen in the womb and if she might have tried to get rid of her or something.
I agree
When a parent denies accepting a child as an equal, it causes extreme insecurity. Agnes was more in competition with Karen than a loving mother as she was to Richard. Agnes was pushing her own insecurities on Karen and probably not fully aware she was doing it. Perfection was also a danger to Karen and us all that fall victim to it.
Agree and they can't have any feelings other than what they feel themselves
@@monilaninetynine3811 no, none of that is true
3:16 Is where he actually starts talking about Karen Carpenter
Thank you!
Her mother didn't love her. In fact, she never once told Karen that she loved her. Her mother adored Karen's brother Richard, though. It sounds like Narcissism to me, and it's also Child Abuse. Thanks Brad.
There’s a home video of one of Karen’s Birthdays that you need to take a look at. It’s after they are already famous. As the video progresses Karen is sitting on the floor starting to open presents, Richard and the mother are sitting on a step a few feet away. There is a young man sitting on the floor by Karen and 2 older ladies sitting to the side of Karen. What really struck me was Karen’s body language. If you watch it you’ll notice how, to me, it looks as though Karen is trying to make herself as small as possible. She almost bends over so much she’s in a ball.
Yes, the sun rose and set on Richard as far as Agnes was concerned and didn’t mind telling everyone she thought that. Karen was raised in an atmosphere of “your brother is a musical genius, and everything the family does is to help his career”. When thats all you’ve heard your entire life, you have no reason to believe you can do anything other than tell everyone how great your bother is. Karen actually said in an interview “I didn’t know I could do a blasted thing” she was talking in reference to her drum playing and singing. They had asked how she got into the marching band, to get out of gym class. The story goes on from there. When she found her lower register she actually got a solo contract before they became “The Carpenters” to cut a single 45 but Agnes told record label that if they wanted Karen they had to take Richard. So that cut Karen’s solo career right out of the gate.
My Uncle was a music producer at A&M RECORDS HOLLYWOOD from 1969-1995.
He actually produced THE CARPENTERS.
I visited my Uncle yearly every summer and boy can I tell you the stories from 70s 80s at that studio!
Karen was a very kind lady at all times in that studio....Richard pushed her buttons frequently!
Was it real obvious Agnes had no empathy? I think what bothers me most about Karen's story is pressure on her to be lead singer (and basically run shows). I heard she was painfully shy. Not all drummers can sing either, and Agnes chose to be disappointed in her little girl rather than being proud of her. 😥
I would love to here the stories. I figured that Richard pushed her buttons. I think he's a lot like his mother. My question is why didn't Harold stand up for Karen? Try to protect her from the attacks from both mother and brother? I believe her feath has greatly affected Richard especially wirh the death of a over bearing mother.
I read the book you mentioned. It sounds like the mother felt the sun rose and set on Richard. Everything they did was for him. Karen was more of an after thought. It does seem like her life was controlled by her mom and to some degree Richard and the record company. Its so sad to think someone with as much talent as she had and she sounded like a very kind and gentle person had no self esteem.
"I know why the caged bird sings", a book written by Maya De Angelou.
In her childhood pics her shoulders always seem up, meaning she looked stressed.
Sharp observation! (nonverbals)
@@rickredmond9847
Thank you😊. I’ve been watching the “behavioral panel” to learn body language here on you tube. But I also know due to my own childhood pics and what they convey. I still have one of Karen’s songs in my head two weeks later. Love her voice.
Imagine being subjected to her domineering mother all the time and whatever you do is never good enough. Always looking for love that we'll never come.
After watching many interviews & documentaries I believe Agnes was controlling, cold, emotionally abusive to Karen and doted on Richard. I also believe Richard was an angry, controlling, egomaniac that resented the fact that although he was talented he needed Karen's golden voice to make it. He sabotaged her solo album. He sabotaged her recovery (telling her she didn't need therapy, just a few good meals). I believe he didn't want her to get to the roots of her disorder in therapy because family secrets would be revealed. I believe he was her abuser. And perhaps not just emotionally. ALLEGEDLY of course.
In addition to being a lifelong, loyal Carpenters fan (I was a 70's kid), I am also a PsyD student/candidate. This is very well done analysis. Very insightful and informative. Great work!
Brad, though I never had the pleasure of meeting her, I have always loved Karen Carpenter and her music. I have read everything I could find about her life. The single best source of information was the book called "Little Girl Blue" and it was written by Randy Schmidt. It was carefully researched and supplemented by personal interviews with Karen's friends and relatives. He spent a year researching and writing it. Disclaimer: I get absolutely nothing if anyone buys this book. I just want folks who love Karen to know more about her, if they want to.
I will definitely check out "Little Girl Blue", thanks for sharing!
Amazing book!
Randy's book was very superficial and was about telling a story more than about Karen. A lot was left out and Randy's sources had some things to hide as well. Try this page www.theeaceman.com/littlegirlblue.html for a bit more in depth discussion about Randy's book (and what was missing and such).
About Karen, try this page www.theeaceman.com/karenlastdays.html as it includes a lot of stuff Randy and many others have missed (some things intentionally left out, others weren't known until recently). Note, the guy writing the web pages gets nothing except a better conscience out of it. Thanks for sharing drogersnm.
Oops, and I forgot (as usual lately with this stuff) Randy's book was mostly what they call 'subjective' (opinionated) material and not that much 'objective' (matter of fact) material. A lot of opinions and second guessing in Randy's book if you read it closely (I feel, I thought, that kind of stuff instead of "Karen told me..." or such). I felt that Ray Coleman's "The Untold Story" was a lot more objective but did have some flaws as well www.theeaceman.com/untoldstory94.html .
@@adriandowningiii8395
Adrian, thank you for the information. I will check out your recommendations. Karen Carpenter was a special human being.
I read that book and by the time I was finished reading it I was in tears. In some ways I can relate. My brother was also the golden child and I was chopped liver. At least we have her on video and recordings of her beautiful voice. Very talented and beautiful person.
Brad Shore, LMFT Richard isn’t a piece of cake, either. He enforced the “rules” about Karen, and used them to his advantage til it backfired and she died.
I believe that.
How so?
What about Elvis and his mom? This relationship with his mother seemed a little bit too close his dad did time in prison and they were alone a lot
Good point!!
What I'd like to know is where was the father in all this? Sounds like her mother ruled with as n iron fist. Her only concern was for her son. She acted as s if she had no daughter. Poor Karen.
I think the father was kind of bullied by the mother. It’s really difficult to cope with a demon in the family.
The only type of person who would allow themselves to be dominated by their wife would be somebody who was dominated by their mother or bullied by their father and was beaten down to become a people pleaser, like Karen. Family dynamics. In dysfunctional families it seems you either become passive, aggressive or passive aggressive.
What I know about Karen Carpenter is that there is a very good chance that she is JOAN OF ARC. You can't tell me that there are any real significant differences in the two lives of Karen and Joan. Joan may have been a victim of emotional incest. Her father Jacques was a very domineering family member to Joan. Joan couldn't please him. Jacques favored Joan's brothers and their wives. Jacques told Joan that he would kill her and that if he could not bring himself to doing it that her brothers should kill her. Why? Because Jacques had a dream that Joan left home with soldiers. To Jacques, the only girls who ran off with armies were whores (camp followers). Joan had to lie to her father to leave home to run off to war. She told her father that she was going to her pregnant aunt's home to help her because her labor was nearing. Joan the Virgin was herself pregnant at the time because the archangel Michael had made the ANNUNCIATION to her that she would soon bring forth a son called the sacred kingdom of France, the Tribe of Judah of the New Covenant. -- Pope Saint Pius X and Book of Revelation chapter 12. Mary Magdalene has told me in recent years that Joan of Arc is her divine twin sister ("matching twin fawns of a gazelle" -- Song of Solomon). Karen Carpenter, under regression therapy hypnosis to treat her anorexia nervosa, revealed to her therapist, in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages, that she had lived a past life as Mary Magdalene. What have biographers such as Randy L Schmidt said about Karen Carpenter? "Karen Carpenter is the preeminent martyr of easy listening, the Joan of Arc of soft rock." "I AM the drum upon which God is beating out his message" -- Joan of Arc. Karen Carpenter was one hell of a drummer, as well as a lead vocalist. Karen and Joan both rose to world fame in their late teens. Both had a close mentor (Joan's was the archangel Michael, and Karen's was her brother Richard). Both died tragic deaths at a young age (Joan was 19, and Karen was 32). Both were tomboys. Both were stars on earth as well as in heaven. This is the epitaph of Karen Carpenter at her grave. The Pope in Rome, Pius X, called Joan of Arc a shining new star destined to be the GLORY of both France and the Universal Church. Revelation 12 says that a crown of 12 stars is upon her head.
Dang it, it's more tragic than I could ever imagine! Oh, Karen, I love you so!
I watched her special on TH-cam, and I was wondering if maybe she was having an incestuous relationship with her brother. I started looking around for information and found you. So, yeah. Certainly something in her family. Richard's demeanor is that special to me, he appeared to have a lot of anxiety and rigidity or something.
Depending when the recording that you're talking about was made, the stress we see in his body language could be that she was in the process of killing herself and the stress of performing only made things worse for her. I think the family dynamics here were really odd because of the effect of the domineering mother. I think it must have damaged the son as well as the daughter to be on the receiving end of such favouritism because it skews your whole outlook on life
Don’t be silly. Richard was an ordinary clueless older brother who was not equipped to save his sister. Most young men would be equally clueless. The problem was the mother.
Even though he is married with children, he has always given off a gay vibe, to me...
@@ravenel2 Richard was anything but ordinary or clueless, there's always more than one sick person in a family. I'm sure Richard gave off the same vibe to Karen as the mother. That "I'm the star here not you " vibe even though the world BARELY knew about Richard.
Richard was complacent. Guilty!
I wouldnt put the word incest in it...thats a bit of a strange word to add to it..i was in a similar situation as karen my brother was favourite spoiled i was in the background of him up until these last few years due to him being not interested in our elderly mothers care and me being the one to make sure she has food and other necessities...he doesnt care about anyone but him..but yes it can cause anorexia and bulimia but throw someone with insecurities and bad body image out into the limelight and be sure it will be made so much more worse and severe. we see this a lot in celebritys...but most do recover our karen did not..
I know where your coming frim my brother was the favored child in pur family. He could do no wtong and I could do no right. After my mom died from cancer he thought he was giing to brow beat me like our mother did.
It is very hard to believe not one person in her life couldn't help her before the illness became so out of control. This is heartbreaking
you are underestimating how good anorexics are at hiding their problem and derailing all attempts to get them to gain weight
I couldn't have a favorite color without criticism. The damage my 'mother' did to my psyche, my life. There was no getting away, even when I was on my own. Odd this info is coming into my life now. Hmmmmmmm
Mine too. It's a lifelong struggle to undo it all and find yourself.
Interesting. You could see it in her eyes! So sad. May she Rest In Peace
Very good analysis! And additionally, Karen had this extreme musical brother-sister-bondage like twins so that her brother even wore the same suit as the groom at her wedding. Richard delivered the sweetest music ever on her wedding day.
Every brother wears the same suit as the groom if he’s in the wedding party.
Emotional incest or Stockholm syndrome? Whatever caused her actions, Karen was suffering from several medical conditions aside from anorexia. Diabetes for one, as her blood sugar level was 1110 when taken after her collapse. The autopsy showed she had enlarged porta hepatic lymph nodes on her liver, a sign of hepititus B and or C, and numerous needle marks in her groin area, suggesting drug usage and shared needles. Could something nefarious been planned prior to signing her divorce papers? Lots of questions remain.
I read the autopsy and didn’t see this, do you have a source?
@@roddor7254 The bottom of the autopsy has the statement from Downey Community Hospital, citing blood sugar level and cause of death. The other items are in the autopsy report , and the fact they weren't addressed specifically could have been for many reasons, as in most Hollywood deaths. This was, remember, 38 years ago, and Karen was everyone's sweetheart.
@@billparthum206 idk, I read it very thoroughly and didn’t find the hepatitis report
@@roddor7254 Google for yourself enlarged porta hepatic lymph nodes. Indicative of hepatitis. Diabetes, hepatitis, known arrhythmia history, and normal body weight. Numerous needle marks visible very disturbing. The poor girl needed help and loving guidance.
I don't know if this link will take, but it is a simple explanation of cocaine usage with diabetes. Seems to be close to the mark:
www.diabetes.co.uk/recreational-drugs/cocaine.html
Thank you SO much for sharing your insight as to why Karen became anorexic! When Karen was suffering from Anorexia not much was known about it so to many it was Karen "over dieting" when in reality is much more than that! Karen wanted to be the perfect daughter..the perfect sister..the perfect wife..that's just too many perfects for one young lady to handle! Agnes was very cold towards Karen...the sun set and rose on Richard! Karen idolized Rich and did everything he did...I believe she absolutely looked up to Richard but I'm the same I think she thought..IF I do what my big brother does maybe mom.will show me that same kind of attention but that's just my opinion! Karen had very low self-esteem...she thought she was fat..didn't think she was a good singer.even after John Lennon said to her " I just want to tell you love you have a most fabulous voice" she told her then boyfriend...He couldn't have meant it! Karen never thought she was pretty enough!
She had a passion for drums so took lessons and played them on stage and sang but Big brother wasn't having it...he wanted her out from behind the drums and front and center so the people could see her! I believe that's when her insecurities escalated..now they could see every pound and judge her for her hair her clothes ECT..
Karen was a sweetheart who was happy with the fame but what she longed for was a house with a picket fence..a loving husband and children and drive a station wagon! She needed to be more in control of her life and sadly the control killed her!
Thank you again! Sorry for rambling LoL!
Omg this is emotional 🥺
I agree, if they would have listened to her and asked what she wanted she would probably still be here!
thank you Tonya for sharing your thoughts..... I feel the same way..... I just heard that her brother helped, he loved her, I saw him in the interview how he supported her...... I think that we are dealing with the mother's emotional coldness which may have pushed her towards the cause of that illness..... and also with that spouse who is not worthy of her...... all such emotional coldness of those people, the inability to understand her, to support, the simplest thing to do is to love - it affected Karen……. but WE love you Karen ...... wherever you are 💗💗💗 .....
I really love karen C’s voice, one of a kind!! ...as I really get strength out of what you bring
❤️.. as I try not to have a eating disorder, as I know my muscles need proteins...
So glad you're on your way to healing........
🙏💖🧿🎶 Don't worry that it's not good enough
For anyone else to hear...
Just Sing -
Sing a song ... 🎶🧿💖🙏
Someone did something to her ! It’s extremely sad I don’t know if it was the brother or dad but there’s something dark all I can say is I pray she’s at peace and she was able to work out things somewhat she made a great debut album to I know she was excited about making it. I don’t trust that brother something doesn’t sit well with me
Did you ever have a chance to read the Schmidt book? It's an absolute must for anyone interested in Karen, great music and/or psychology. Your analysis is spot-on.
richard Carpenter married his first cousin - this was a really messed up family!
His cousin was adopted so they were not blood related
@@davidturner3617it’s still creepy af though
The adopted story is false.
@@garrytiller3194source?
Agnes had massive mental issues
If it’s not dealt with in a therapists office?
Thank you so much for this video.
Why call this emotional incest?? Why sexualise psychology?
@@freddytw206 www.webmd.com/parenting/what-is-emotional-incest
I read the book little girl blue it's very nice and sad because you know how it ends makes you a little bit mad when you read how Richard was treated compared to Karen the same author wants to do movie hopefully an independent film for Karen Carpenter I'm hoping I can get out there on Netflix or something so that everyone can see what this beautiful star was all about God bless stay safe bye
This is very good. Makes total sense to me.
I think she had a thing for her brother. There were rumors floating around about this, and that she was jealous of his girlfriend(s), etc. In fact, in the movie made about them, this was clearly shown.
I think you have that backwards.
Even in the movie Agnes was constantly behind her
If you ask me, I think she was in love with her brother!
is it true that her brother Richard didn't want her to get married
Or his victim.
@@j.c.b6473 ,BOTH
@@antoniom60 ,indeed and many deny it happened just to survive.
It may also be that she suffered from undiagnosed emotional incest toward her brother as her unobtainable lover or husband. This being the case, it could explain why none of her relationships lasted beause no man could replace the closeness and dependency she had with her brother. While her and her brother may not have had sex, it would not surprise me if they often shared the same room or bed on tour ostensibly to collaborate between shows - even without sex.
Perhaps her desire for being thin was driven by an obsession to look attractive to her brother or later as a manipulative tactic to win his attention in her harrowing hospital trips?
Do male victims of emotional incest who never have sex with their single or divorced moms and often sleep together later develop a desire for taboo videos or interest in a relationships that involve cuck lifestyle?
This is insane.
🥁🎶 ... I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend ... 🎶🥁
Couldn't do for your daughter like Geddy and Alex did for Neil. You suck, Agnes!! My late hubby always thought Richard put the Pee in Pianist too. Wants to be a gd orchestra conductor or something...
Pena que sua mãe não o amava como seus fãs ❤️ não apreciava o talento da filha não via sua voz linda não via que ela era unha baterista maravilhosa 😍😍
I think you hit the bulls eye on your explanation. Thing is as much as her brother loved her , deep down I believe he knows this to be true and it haunts him and I think this this is why he does'nt like to talk too much about her illness. You can see proof of this in endorsement of the latest Carpenters book that came out this past November. When promoting it he said he wanted the book to focus on the music of the Carpenters and Less on Karen's Tragic ending.
Or he feels guilt.
Like say," Negative evens happens today will not serve the presence, but teaches the future generations to come. Praise the souls suffering for us. If not for their suffering, we would not gain more open hearts and minds.
Brook shields
So sad if there's an ongoing eating disorder with her......it's a SYMPTOM for how we feel about ourselves.
Agelina jolie
Maybe there should be a newer more truthful bio pic made. Staring Anne Hathaway.
🙏