Thanks you! I feel like I’ve learned more in the last 24h watching your videos then in the last 12 months. Having a process engineering background it’s refreshing to find someone applying process and data to making high quality vodka, instead of the “do it all by taste, smell and magic”. Some more info on the Pi programming for the continuous still would be great to see, and maybe some better photos of the still details. Thanks for all the time and effort you’ve obviously put in to making the videos.
I am no programmer. I have a working python program which I will make public. I am currently inhibited because it is so amateur, but maybe better programmers will collaborate to improve it.
I've attempted many filtration methods with many spirit types. Though never with an azeotropic spirit as I've found many of the undesirable components to be much more soluble in a spirit the stronger it is, making them much more difficult to remove than if proofed down first. After learning this I attempt to get it close to the proof I'm planning on ending at prior to filtration and have found much better results since. But as someone who seeks to create more flavorful spirits these days instead of less, I now only filter to remove some of the bite and only the largest of undesirable molecules. As such I've almost entirely stopped using AC and began using 100% sugar maple charcoal. Augmenting the length of the filter and being able to break it up myself allows me some control over how much or how little I filter out by selectively choosing what size carbon I use and how much of it the spirit filters through. I typically remove and reserve the powder that is created while crushing the charcoal to size, for things I want to receive the most amount of filtering like my neutral spirits. Though personally I've had best success at creating a truly neutral spirit through a combination of processes. I first started with something very neutral to begin with, seems obvious, but it's important. My preference is potatoes. But with how neutral my Soju turns out, rice would likely also be a good candidate. Then I strip the alcohol from the wash and proof the spirit down to distillation ABV of 35-40% and do a quick cursory filter through a Brita to remove some of the flavor at a decent speed. This is not the most important filtration so not much time is spent on it, though it helps none the less. Then I treat the low wines with a combination of things which raise the pH and neutralize precursor catalysts for esterification among, other flavor compounds. I used about a 50:50 ratio of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate until slightly alkaline. Then I add in powdered AC/charcoal and leave it in for a few days, continually stirring it throughout each day to help move it through the wash and adsorb as much as possible. The powder AC is then removed prior to distillation with either cotton or felt. For the spirit distillation, I set up a funnel which is nearly completely filled with small AC pieces to filter the spirit some as it comes off the still. But I only place it there after I've made the heads cut. All the cuts of the final spirit are then blended and go through one final AC filtration using a Buchner vacuum filtration funnel that has at least 2"(5cm) of AC in it for a minimum of two passes, or until tasteless. Multiples go much more quickly with vacuum and one can accomplish a filtration rate of about a gallon (4L) of finished neutral per hour, while still effectively removing quite a bit of residual flavors from it each time. It's a labor intensive method, though it makes a superior product in my personal opinion. actually doesn't use as much carbon as it sounds like. Certainly less than the large carbon filters available for purchase and much more effective I used this combination of techniques and methods applied to the double distillation of a neutral spirit, and a double retort modification for the high proof need to really call it neutral. All of which are contributions to helping me create a neutral spirit I believe tases like absolutely nothing, not even like water, water has more flavor honestly... though water doesn't immediately begin to evaporate once it's drank like neutral can. Never in my life have I ever experienced a neutral as neutral as the neutral this method can create 😂 --RuneShine, Michigan's Norse-Druid Alchemist ✌💚🙃
I accept what you say about filtering high concentration spirit. As I understand it, you proof stripped spirit down to 35 - 40% and filter it through a Brita filter. Then you alkalinise the result with sodium bicarbonate and add further charcoal and leave it for several days. You then filter out the charcoal and distil again, this time running the product through a carbon containing filter. I presume this is with a pot still as you mentioned removing the head cuts before doing this. Then you filter the collected product again through another carbon containing funnel for two or more passes. What is the alcohol proof of these final carbon filtration passes? This is a carbon exposure at several stages. What is the advantage of going through the process of multiple distillations and alkalinization and applying carbon at only one point?
I’ve always been told (the general consensus among the hobbyists) is that carbon filtering is ineffective with spirit above 50% ABV. I need to rewatch this to absorb it properly. Thanks for sharing
So far I have only used it with 95+%. It does work but is not very effective. I'll try it at lower %. It could work better for chemical that are more hydrophobic than ethanol as more water would push the energy balance towards adsorption for them, but even commercial users use a lot of carbon per litre.
Hi, I filled an air cooled column with carbon with a tap on the bottom and a 2lt chromatography flask on the top, worked well. BUT after listening to you about ozone,I use a Erlenmeyer flask, put the spirit, ozone stone and carbon in and put the lot on a magnetic stirrer. ozone for about 2hr while stirring for a day or so. i use 1/2 cup of carbon per 2lt ish of spirit. After that I remove the big stuff and let the carbon dust settled down, this takes a week or so. The results have been quite promising, very clean considering I started at 94% ABV Cheers Peter
Interesting. Can I just be clear about what you did? You took a flask with spirit and 1/2 cup per 2l of carbon on a magnetic stirrer and added ozone for two hours while stirring, then removed the ozone generator and continued stirring for another 22 hours or so. Then you let the carbon settle out. One question. What is the rate of ozone generation? The cheap generator I have is only about a 1000 mg per hour, and it will only run for an hour continuously before you have to stop it for a rest. Presumably because otherwise it gets too hot.
@@tight1449 yes, that’s right, flask with about 2 lt of 94.ish%, 1/2 cup carbon on a magnetic stirrer, stirring fast enough as to have a lot of the carbon in suspension. Biggest problem was the ozone stone and the stirring bar colliding, but it did settle down after a while. The ozone generator is a 1000mg/h, 10w, model AZ-1000MG-G. It to recommends only running for one hour at a time, to avoid damage from over heating. The carbon I use is no bigger than 2mm. I was concerned that such a high ABV might have a negative effect on the carbons ability to filter out the bad stuff, but compared to other batches it’s quite good. Yes, I stirred it for about a day, then filled out the big bits of carbon. It was quite cloudy with the small carbon particles/dust,after putting it in a vertical walled jar, and giving the jar a quick 1/4 turn twist whenever I went past it, it settled out with a polished look after about a week,then I racked it, job done. Hope this answers your questions. Cheers Peter
Completely agree with you about the Britta filter... absolutely no consideration has gone into the design, and (in my experience anyway) it's impossible to pour anything out of it without it spilling everywhere. Considering the price of the thing, that's pretty poor. I've had pretty good results from adding activated carbon directly to low wines prior to final distillation. That works out considerably cheaper than other filtration methods, but it's only useful for multiple distillation.
@@tight1449 Yes, after it's sat around for a few days doing its job (i.e. until I get around to re-distilling it). It benefits from continuous stirring, as it has a tendency to settle out otherwise. In theory I think you could use it without an extra re-distillation, by filtering it. I suppose that would be a similar process to running it through a Britta filter, but for a fraction of the cost, and with a longer exposure time to the active carbon.
I have tried it and it works well. After stripping in a pot still I have cut down to about 35% and added 1kg of charcoal per 50l. I've used cheap charcoal sold for fish tank purification. I also bubble in ozone and after a couple of days the taste clears. Then I do a continuous fractional column distillation. the result is my best vodka yet. Thanks!
I've reused activated charcoal 5 times now after filtering my azeotropic mixture until it couldn't remove taste/fusel oils anymore. I haven't observed any drop in performance. It did not need hundreds of degrees Celsius, just 70 degrees C in my fan oven for about 4 hours on a tray of foil, nothing fancy. It's not optimal but it works well for me and is cheap.
@tight1449 I put the spirit in a jar with the charcoal at room temperature and cover it. The oven is used for regeneration only, and that is at 70 deg C.
@@Southghost5997 I'll try it. Commercial regeneration uses prolonged heating to several hundred degrees in a non oxidising atmosphere. Lower temperature regeneration my only drive off the ethanol and more volatile chemicals.
@tight1449 yeah it's not proper regeneration, but it seems to be fine for this purpose. It might be worth a try to bring the cost of this hobby down :)
@@tight1449 Talking about the sloping tube,I got a copper pipe 20 mm x 6 meters and formed it into a coil, that sits on top of the still pot, works like a dream, getting about 94.5 ish %
@@tight1449 The wash was a turbo classic 8, with 1.5 kg quick oats, about 12% abv. The pot is about 17 liters, that I heat with a induction cob. The coil is insulated to some extent, you can put your hand on it and it is warm.Steam goes up the rectifying column but the return gets funneled back to half way down the coil.I have a pid on it. It doesn't seam to make much difference if you are doing a 12% wash or a 30% spirit run, it all comes out at about 94.ish.I have played with a reflux condenser and fore shots but the system does not seam to be hot enough.I have an old steam cleaner I might have a play with. That 12% wash was continuous and pot, the 30% was pot.The wash goes through quite fast,the stream of wash would be about the size of a pencil lead or fast dripping. How can I send you some pictures or a video? and whats your name? Cheers Peter
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Thanks you! I feel like I’ve learned more in the last 24h watching your videos then in the last 12 months. Having a process engineering background it’s refreshing to find someone applying process and data to making high quality vodka, instead of the “do it all by taste, smell and magic”. Some more info on the Pi programming for the continuous still would be great to see, and maybe some better photos of the still details. Thanks for all the time and effort you’ve obviously put in to making the videos.
I am no programmer. I have a working python program which I will make public. I am currently inhibited because it is so amateur, but maybe better programmers will collaborate to improve it.
I've attempted many filtration methods with many spirit types. Though never with an azeotropic spirit as I've found many of the undesirable components to be much more soluble in a spirit the stronger it is, making them much more difficult to remove than if proofed down first. After learning this I attempt to get it close to the proof I'm planning on ending at prior to filtration and have found much better results since.
But as someone who seeks to create more flavorful spirits these days instead of less, I now only filter to remove some of the bite and only the largest of undesirable molecules. As such I've almost entirely stopped using AC and began using 100% sugar maple charcoal. Augmenting the length of the filter and being able to break it up myself allows me some control over how much or how little I filter out by selectively choosing what size carbon I use and how much of it the spirit filters through. I typically remove and reserve the powder that is created while crushing the charcoal to size, for things I want to receive the most amount of filtering like my neutral spirits.
Though personally I've had best success at creating a truly neutral spirit through a combination of processes. I first started with something very neutral to begin with, seems obvious, but it's important. My preference is potatoes. But with how neutral my Soju turns out, rice would likely also be a good candidate. Then I strip the alcohol from the wash and proof the spirit down to distillation ABV of 35-40% and do a quick cursory filter through a Brita to remove some of the flavor at a decent speed. This is not the most important filtration so not much time is spent on it, though it helps none the less.
Then I treat the low wines with a combination of things which raise the pH and neutralize precursor catalysts for esterification among, other flavor compounds. I used about a 50:50 ratio of sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate until slightly alkaline. Then I add in powdered AC/charcoal and leave it in for a few days, continually stirring it throughout each day to help move it through the wash and adsorb as much as possible. The powder AC is then removed prior to distillation with either cotton or felt.
For the spirit distillation, I set up a funnel which is nearly completely filled with small AC pieces to filter the spirit some as it comes off the still. But I only place it there after I've made the heads cut. All the cuts of the final spirit are then blended and go through one final AC filtration using a Buchner vacuum filtration funnel that has at least 2"(5cm) of AC in it for a minimum of two passes, or until tasteless. Multiples go much more quickly with vacuum and one can accomplish a filtration rate of about a gallon (4L) of finished neutral per hour, while still effectively removing quite a bit of residual flavors from it each time. It's a labor intensive method, though it makes a superior product in my personal opinion. actually doesn't use as much carbon as it sounds like. Certainly less than the large carbon filters available for purchase and much more effective
I used this combination of techniques and methods applied to the double distillation of a neutral spirit, and a double retort modification for the high proof need to really call it neutral. All of which are contributions to helping me create a neutral spirit I believe tases like absolutely nothing, not even like water, water has more flavor honestly... though water doesn't immediately begin to evaporate once it's drank like neutral can. Never in my life have I ever experienced a neutral as neutral as the neutral this method can create 😂
--RuneShine, Michigan's Norse-Druid Alchemist ✌💚🙃
I accept what you say about filtering high concentration spirit.
As I understand it, you proof stripped spirit down to 35 - 40% and filter it through a Brita filter. Then you alkalinise the result with sodium bicarbonate and add further charcoal and leave it for several days. You then filter out the charcoal and distil again, this time running the product through a carbon containing filter. I presume this is with a pot still as you mentioned removing the head cuts before doing this.
Then you filter the collected product again through another carbon containing funnel for two or more passes. What is the alcohol proof of these final carbon filtration passes?
This is a carbon exposure at several stages. What is the advantage of going through the process of multiple distillations and alkalinization and applying carbon at only one point?
I’ve always been told (the general consensus among the hobbyists) is that carbon filtering is ineffective with spirit above 50% ABV. I need to rewatch this to absorb it properly. Thanks for sharing
So far I have only used it with 95+%. It does work but is not very effective. I'll try it at lower %. It could work better for chemical that are more hydrophobic than ethanol as more water would push the energy balance towards adsorption for them, but even commercial users use a lot of carbon per litre.
I am a real slow typer , and spent an hour and a half typing and just lost it, got the shits now. so much to tell you, all good stuff.
I'm no typist either! I dictate with google Speechnotes or Descript.
Hi, I filled an air cooled column with carbon with a tap on the bottom and a 2lt chromatography flask on the top, worked well. BUT after listening to you about ozone,I use a Erlenmeyer flask, put the spirit, ozone stone and carbon in and put the lot on a magnetic stirrer. ozone for about 2hr while stirring for a day or so. i use 1/2 cup of carbon per 2lt ish of spirit. After that I remove the big stuff and let the carbon dust settled down, this takes a week or so. The results have been quite promising, very clean considering I started at 94% ABV
Cheers
Peter
Interesting. Can I just be clear about what you did? You took a flask with spirit and 1/2 cup per 2l of carbon on a magnetic stirrer and added ozone for two hours while stirring, then removed the ozone generator and continued stirring for another 22 hours or so. Then you let the carbon settle out.
One question. What is the rate of ozone generation? The cheap generator I have is only about a 1000 mg per hour, and it will only run for an hour continuously before you have to stop it for a rest. Presumably because otherwise it gets too hot.
@@tight1449 yes, that’s right, flask with about 2 lt of 94.ish%, 1/2 cup carbon on a magnetic stirrer, stirring fast enough as to have a lot of the carbon in suspension. Biggest problem was the ozone stone and the stirring bar colliding, but it did settle down after a while. The ozone generator is a 1000mg/h, 10w, model AZ-1000MG-G. It to recommends only running for one hour at a time, to avoid damage from over heating. The carbon I use is no bigger than 2mm. I was concerned that such a high ABV might have a negative effect on the carbons ability to filter out the bad stuff, but compared to other batches it’s quite good.
Yes, I stirred it for about a day, then filled out the big bits of carbon. It was quite cloudy with the small carbon particles/dust,after putting it in a vertical walled jar, and giving the jar a quick 1/4 turn twist whenever I went past it, it settled out with a polished look after about a week,then I racked it, job done.
Hope this answers your questions.
Cheers
Peter
Completely agree with you about the Britta filter... absolutely no consideration has gone into the design, and (in my experience anyway) it's impossible to pour anything out of it without it spilling everywhere. Considering the price of the thing, that's pretty poor.
I've had pretty good results from adding activated carbon directly to low wines prior to final distillation. That works out considerably cheaper than other filtration methods, but it's only useful for multiple distillation.
Do you add the carbon and then pot distil with it in the boiler?
@@tight1449 Yes, after it's sat around for a few days doing its job (i.e. until I get around to re-distilling it). It benefits from continuous stirring, as it has a tendency to settle out otherwise. In theory I think you could use it without an extra re-distillation, by filtering it. I suppose that would be a similar process to running it through a Britta filter, but for a fraction of the cost, and with a longer exposure time to the active carbon.
I have tried it and it works well. After stripping in a pot still I have cut down to about 35% and added 1kg of charcoal per 50l. I've used cheap charcoal sold for fish tank purification. I also bubble in ozone and after a couple of days the taste clears. Then I do a continuous fractional column distillation. the result is my best vodka yet. Thanks!
I've reused activated charcoal 5 times now after filtering my azeotropic mixture until it couldn't remove taste/fusel oils anymore. I haven't observed any drop in performance. It did not need hundreds of degrees Celsius, just 70 degrees C in my fan oven for about 4 hours on a tray of foil, nothing fancy. It's not optimal but it works well for me and is cheap.
To add, I use about 500 g charcoal/2 L and it soaks for 3 hours. Again, no optimisation but I'm happy with it.
How does it work? Do you put the spirit in a jar with the carbon and keep it at 70 degrees?
@tight1449 I put the spirit in a jar with the charcoal at room temperature and cover it. The oven is used for regeneration only, and that is at 70 deg C.
@@Southghost5997 I'll try it. Commercial regeneration uses prolonged heating to several hundred degrees in a non oxidising atmosphere. Lower temperature regeneration my only drive off the ethanol and more volatile chemicals.
@tight1449 yeah it's not proper regeneration, but it seems to be fine for this purpose. It might be worth a try to bring the cost of this hobby down :)
Can you do a video on the jar still
Yes I'm working on it. It works well by not as developed as the sloping tube.
@@tight1449 Talking about the sloping tube,I got a copper pipe 20 mm x 6 meters and formed it into a coil, that sits on top of the still pot, works like a dream, getting about 94.5 ish %
@@Jack-It-UP Interesting. What were the parameters? wash concentration? Power? and was the coil insulated?
@@tight1449 The wash was a turbo classic 8, with 1.5 kg quick oats, about 12% abv. The pot is about 17 liters, that I heat with a induction cob. The coil is insulated to some extent, you can put your hand on it and it is warm.Steam goes up the rectifying column but the return gets funneled back to half way down the coil.I have a pid on it. It doesn't seam to make much difference if you are doing a 12% wash or a 30% spirit run, it all comes out at about 94.ish.I have played with a reflux condenser and fore shots but the system does not seam to be hot enough.I have an old steam cleaner I might have a play with. That 12% wash was continuous and pot, the 30% was pot.The wash goes through quite fast,the stream of wash would be about the size of a pencil lead or fast dripping. How can I send you some pictures or a video? and whats your name?
Cheers
Peter
How do you set up the pid controller? Is the target temperature the top of the column?