ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- There are millions of people across the world who are toiling away in meaningless, unnecessary jobs, and they know it. Nevertheless they continue going to their work every day, continuing their ‘bullshit jobs’. Why?
The famous anthropologian David Graeber, one of the most radical political thinkers today, explores in his most recent book the phenomenon of ‘bullshit jobs.’ In De Balie he will present labour, capitalism and bureaucracy in a radical new light.
Why do we see a growth of bullshit jobs in a society dominated by a capitalist system that ought to eliminate inefficiency? And what should be done to fight against it?
David Graeber is a professor of anthropology at the London School of Economics. He is the author of several book such as Debt: the first 5000 years (2011), The Democracy Project (2013) and The Utopia of Rules (2015) and regularly writes for The Guardian. He has been a central figure in the Occupy Wall Street protests.
Moderator:
Ether van Rijswijk, journalist.
Language: English
Livestream 2018-06-27
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N E D E R L A N D S :
Over de hele wereld zijn er talloze mensen die dag in dag uit naar hun werk gaan, maar zelf hun baan eigenlijk onnodig vinden. Toch blijven ze doorgaan met, naar eigen zeggen, ‘onzinwerk.’ Waarom?
De beroemde antropoloog David Graeber, een van meest radicale politieke denkers van nu, onderzoekt in zijn nieuwste boek het fenomeen van ‘bullshit jobs’. In De Balie zal hij zijn nieuwe kijk op werk, kapitalisme en bureaucratie presenteren.
Hoe kan het dat er in de huidige samenleving het aantal onzinbanen steeds meer toeneemt terwijl dat haaks staat op de basisprincipes van het Westers kapitalisme zoals efficiëntie en concurrentie? En hoe moeten en kunnen we zinloos werk bestrijden?
David Graeber is hoogleraar antropologie aan de London School of Economics. Hij is de auteur van meerdere boeken zoals Debt: The first 5000 years (2011), The Democracy Project (2013) en The Utopia of Rules (2015) en schrijft regelmatig voor The Guardian. Graeber was een van de centrale figuren in de protestbeweging Occupy Wall Street.
Voertaal: English
De Balie social media:
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Televisie:
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Iedere zondag om 20:00 uur. Herhalingen op diverse dagen en tijden. Uitgezonden video's:
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The moderator was so damn salty about finding out her job was bullshit.
lol
nonsense
in keeping with one formally trained in economics, I would say.
TRUTH hurts but it's funny 😂😂😂
The presenter is insufferable. Graeber had so much knowledge to share and questions to answer. She interrupted but contributed nothing. The worst.
Rest in Power, DG.
Well she's an economist so... that's what you would expect.
That moderator is insufferable.
"If they have friends, that is"
- Is it even possible she becomes more annoying?
I join the people asking for an edit of this video where she is removed of it
David Graeber's speech starts at 9:31
THANK YOU
I would say I spend at least 30 hours a week pretending to work.
sometimes its just a about level of stress: your brain is likely to shut down under ever-lasting pressure, so you become less creative and it may take an eternity to complete a simple task
And engaging in pretend work to appease the career npic folk who would be obsolete, redundant and unemployed if societal ills were ACTUALLY addressed head on 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Indeed, an impatient moderator quite pleased with her ability to use technology... nonetheless a great conversation.
Yeah I really hate the computer-mediated format with the busy graphs and congratulating people for how many likes they got on their question.
this is the dutch way of doing things! Not knowing of what you speak but having an app solution!
@@erenaksahin Luckily not every Dutch person is like this. In my experience, most Dutch people are respectful and patient. But I agree to a small extend that there is a small minority who sadly is like this. They want to dominate by talking too much and interrupting others. They cause a very restless and less intelligent atmosphere.
"Self-employed cant have bs jobs" read the book lady lol
I could listen to David Graeber all day, everyday. Unfortunately I stopped watching this video because of the moderator.
David Graeber: Anthropolist with something useful to say.
The Moderator: "Esther is working as a facilitator for strategic and creative brainstorms."
This interviewer has no idea when an idea is over and when it's still going on
she is just assertive and provocative. why is that a problem?
@@illiakailli provocative means she would've brought up something that wouldn't have happened without her provocation, which you can tell from David's rhythm wasn't remotely the case. he tends to slow down when he's thinking of things he hasn't rehearsed, and he's going at lightning speed. it's because she ISN'T provocative but still interjecting that we're criticizing.
@@ethanstump nonsense :)
@@illiakailli please pass the humbug, it's next to the boulderdash. 🤷♂ assertive of anything of substance? no.
@@ethanstump provocative may also mean an affect imposed on a listeners of their conversation. Your attempt to play on hypotheticals is an intellectual dead end, while its clear that you simply don't sympathize with an interviewer for whatever reason. Triggered?
so the moderator's job is to read aloud some questions, and ask people to voice their questions. classic box ticker.
My company are the heavy weight champions of creating BS jobs.
They had a whole planning team telling front line drivers on how to get thier jobs (um we had satnavs and would actively plan our own routes) but we were still made to call them or we would get reported to management. Anyway long story short they came up with new navigation software that increased the size of the team(we told them that this software was pointless and wouldn't work) 2 Years later they gave up on the new system that didn't work and made the whole team redundan( they were paid more than us by the way lol) the only change we noticed was that we didn't have to make a bs phone call to be told to do something we already done.
However one golden child was saved and has been given the glorious title of planning specialist(basically he hands us emergencies now and again when call centre are busy lol a manager recently admitted that new job was pointless and a waste of money but he can't say anything due to politics.
The upper management team consistently make up new titles or job roles for themselves. We joke about this daily.
I'm a box ticker.
Good stuff Inhave told my children and anyone else who would listen for at least a decade that avoid jobs that cannot be easily explained or get a job were your job title is what you do i.e. you are a Nurse, carpenter, teacher, even lawyer (non corporate as those get hard to explain) doctor, pilot and many others those are real jobs. Vague job title jobs like manager or business person tend to be BS and in the long run are not rewarding
ECSRice I’m a professor and it’s not a real job you’re way out of touch. My wife is a nurse and they all hate it. Get a clue
The moderator has an unlikable vibe and shows no respect to Dr. Graeber. Plus she likes to call out individual audience on, "who said that," regarding the computer-generated surveys. Dude, give the audience anonymity, don't call them and ask "who said that." While you are at it, why not ask them for their social security number too. No respect.
oh, come on, ppl in the audience didn't have to respond to 'who said that' question. moderator is pretty good I think
I think the critique is valid up to the point that she talks more than one might like, but Dr. Graeber is an amazing orator. She takes nothing away from the discussion, indeed provides humor alongside the speaker. Great talk!
When you think about it, being a moderator is kind of a bulshit job in this case.
She is Dutch through and through.
She was horrible
David is highly intellectual, the topic is critical detrimental, the mediator is wit, confident and very smart. The lady that suggested rewarding valuable jobs in contrast to BS ones is a solution maker my respect!
Uff the lady who was leading the moderation almost made me not listen until the end.
this woman is driving me nuts.!!!! Someone cut her please out of this video!
Is this moderator under influence of some kind of stimulant? Really weird!
Why is this interviewer so impatient?
I would be impatient too, if I had just been told that 60%-80% of jobs are not only meaningless but also counterproductive towards avoiding the 6th extinction event... I might be inconsolable if i had a child about to be born into the dark ages of late stage capitalism. If everything that you have been indoctrinated to believe supports the illegitimate hegemony of hierarchical dominance, which is antithetical to humanity's survival, then we can speculate as to the source of incredulity: cognitive dissonance.
she did a fine job imo
Caffeine?
Because she was in a hurry to start her second bullshit job waiting for her that day.
The moderator is so annoying
I didn't realize Graeber was kicked out of the US. Typical. His ideas and philosophies were kryptonite for the ultra-capitalist society in the US.
You're kidding me
That moderator is irritating
Goodness the moderator is so annoying.
The moderator has a bullshit job.
Jesus this moderator is making this video very hard to watch. Interrupting, badgering both Graeber and the audience, not letting Graeber get into any kind of flow. She seems to want to prove she is as clever as Graeber by micromanaging the event. I would walk out if I were treated like this.
She truly is the middle-management of interviewers.
another lol at the incompetent moderator.
more like a big f u actually
don't forget jobs that are actually destructive instead of useful. if we can actually measure close to what is wasted we can essentially measure what our new lives could look like
I am not agreeing with every point David makes but think he does make a lot of important points. Also his approach is untethered from conventions. He brings a lot of fresh perspectives. And insights.
At some points she squeezed out of him a few new and interesting things, he never says in usual talks. But otherwise terrible moderator
moderator needs a therapy session
53:07 - 57:10 F.I.R.E Sectors are structural rent extraction/distribution mechanisms, which are more like feudal protection rackets through "durable" legal means, rather than capitalism, which is profit extraction/distribution from labor-value intermediation through commodification.
Economically, we are reverting back into a feudal society for the peasantry while the ownership-class devolves forward in an attempt accelerate monopolistic consolidation towards corporate-monarchy by divine right of theft through primitive accumulation. The resulting post-slavery economy devalues human labor into worthlessness, while the intellectual property-value derivatives of artificial intelligence, automation, and enforcement to support the bespoke production economy. Goods and services will be accessed by a highly stratified and rarefied elite whom are relieved of the accountability and responsibility for social justice to anyone but themselves and those who have the power to enforce the right of contract.
Post-capitalism's artificially induced resource scarcity (austerity) is the economic methodology by which the oligarchy has been and will continue to rationalize the divide and conquer strategies for the oppression, repression, and then elimination of the overburden of humanity's (no longer productive) population.
Institutional bureaucratic bullshit jobs will only be tolerated by the oligarchy until an alternative and more obedient power enforcement hierarchy can be established. The bullshit jobs that require human enforcers as protectors of the ruling class (through the using the illegitimate power of governance, courts, police and military) can be replaced using autocratic robotic enforcers, whom are unable to voluntarily deny obedience to their master's command. In the future, who will deny the order for mass execution of redundant humans? {Hint: it's not going to be the same establishment sycophants who deny us from social equality and economic equity now!}
all this to say that it's not true capitalism. this was always the end game. no need to say that capitalism has become like feudalism, it always was extractive and exploitatative. you can't "revert" when the status quo hasn't changed a bit, a wealthy minority planning what society will look like, while the vast majority who create value are shut out from defining it. also, while i do think fascists will try to reinstitute eugenicism, for the vast majority of the wealthy planners, they just have to sit back as climate change wipes out millions. the choice has always been socialism or barbarism, and we better choose socialism faster than the "eleets" can choose barbarism.
fantastic
How many days has he been sleeping in that shirt?
Ik ben Nederlands en ik vind mijn medelanders over het algemeen prettig. Maar de gewoonte van een kleine minderheid van de Nederlanders om anderen steeds te interrumperen of zelfs -zoals in dit geval - interviews te willen domineren (haar microfoon staat zelfs harder dan van alle anderen / of ze praat gewoon een stuk harder) is erg storend. Ik loop hiermee het risico een ander Nederlands stereotype te bevestigen met mijn wijzende vingertje, waarvoor excuus. Maar voor een volgende keer kun je als interviewen beter minder aan het woord zijn. Dan kunnen de mensen meer leren van de mensen die worden geïnterviewd.
1:18:29 there is no "next year" or ever :(
The irony of the first 9 minutes was delicious
All these people hating on the host are getting it wrong. She was playing to the event. You can watch Graeber lectures on line somewhere. She did a good job and some of her questions and prompts added a lot 😢😢😢😢 cry babies!
Love this.
A bull shit job can contain the ultimate zinger, in that it's necessary but in the self aggrandizing circle jerk of the npic, take vital time from service delivery to brand marketing to ensure the npic doesn't achieve the goals that would desirably make the jobs obsolete.
Didn't understand but agree
JFC the comments are not exaggerating. this moderator is actually one of the worst I've ever encountered.
The two most rewarding types of work I've ever done were teaching guitar lessons to children and volunteering with physically disabled adults. Neither paid the bills.
What would you recommend doing instead?
@@br.3250 rob a bank lol. But seriously, I get that most of us have to earn a living for now. Ideally, something that serves your community in some way and affords you a comfortable life.
What an a absolutely abhorrent moderator, almost made me want to unsubscribe from youtube premium and disconnect my wifi altogether
The moderator is so annoying, has been interrupting when David Graeber was still saying something important and hasen’t allowed him to finnish mant interesting points. As for David, I just hope many more learn about him and reethink how society should go!
i like the intro with the bullshit job ngos best
Absolute legend, this guy. Shame that the interviewer was p bad
if we had more free time, we wouldn't be as fat.
The moderator comes off as bourgie. Pretentious, conventional and hard to like.
She was a good choice 😊
Really depressing.
I’m a member of the underclasses who is just trying survive(me and my 3 kids) so forgive me if my heart doesn’t break for the people with bs jobs who have to suffer under the infinite weight of meaningless work and by extension meaningless lives. I’m aware of the blessing of my lot in life. My life is very meaningful. More valuable and meaningful than any of the middle classes I would venture to guess. It’s only the 1% who have everything to lose, and the desperate poverty stricken who have nothing left to lose, who have the most motivated, driven, meaning-full existences. Bully for me!! LMFAO!!!🤣😂😃
Little disney villian monologue there for ya... for absolutely no fucking reason. Cool.
abe lincoln, high level managers are secretly depressed, andrew Carnegie, derive happiness from what you consume at home
26:20 '*sip*
I am getting bored with saying it but it should be like a eureka moment for anyone who THINKS about it.......just make it financially worthwhile for people to share the jobs we would agree we NEED people to do and work much less....and there would be no more bullshit pointless jobs...it would actually solve most world problems.
The motivated should stop making the policies...
Disturbing - the concept of using so much technology and "toys" during meeting with author. It is just skipping from one subject to next, no much deep reflection only constant look on phone (the audience needs to checking phone, listen and get that is going on af the same time). This is just play, mildly informative or insightful
They have all this stuff from corporate meetings like visuals, via phone survey and jumping from topics without purpose...
This guys voice is so wacky I love it
@54:18 Soviet. Art and culture @1:04:08, pretending 44:53
i cant keep listening to this with a moderator cutting the guest off multiple times in a sentence.
what a disgusting human being.
I’d say the same about bullshit careers .. master in entrepreneurship? 🤣
1:18:40 - 1:20:00.
People simply should not get upset about it. If you ask a construction worker who is doing back-breaking work if he is willing to trade his position to have less responsibility, less work, while making more money, he or she will NOT say NO!
people aren't getting upset for the reasons you think they are. people aren't upset that people don't have to work as hard, we are getting upset at the notion that our work means squat. it's wasted time, and if time has to be wasted, why not waste it hiking instead of being in an office? it's a gilded cage, and while you might be upset at having a nongilded cage, we are upset that people have to be in cages at all. no need, it's completely arbitrary.
Have you understood anything at all about Graebers thesis? Clearly not.
"Famous anthropologist". Not "anthropologian"
My name matters!
Bullshit jobs or not, we all need to eat, we all need to pay bills.
Terrible moderator, she ruined a potentially greatly valuable moment with her ignorance and pedantic attitude. Terrible. David is great though, in spite of the limited interlocutor.
moderator made it all about herself so annoying
wow, this moderator is truly terrible
Wrong rulers all there is in your blind cheap greed unit
I love the Dutch haha!
Jobs are not about what you want to do, it is about making money. Of course, most likely you do not want to do that job, THAT IS WHY YOU ARE GETTING PAY FOR IT!!
Do you mean to say, that's why they call it 'compensation'?
if jobs are a measure of resource distribution only, why do they empirically suck at it? none of peoples compensation makes rational sense, but then status quo upholders are famous for their irrationality. "bEcAuSE i SAid SO!" things can easily be changed so that bullshit jobs are invalidated, your paid a survival income, and the next FDR isn't stuck in some high finance accounting firm making line go up. but then, that's the whole point of our current system, to make sure any and all MLKs, ghandi's and FDR's are stuck in some high finance accounting firm making line go up.
@@ethanstump With all that being said, I would ask this question: If you are offered $37 an hour, for 7 hours to stand by a door, would you do it?
@@dcabral00as i pointed out in my reply, it's a false dilemma for income to be based on performance. that goes for literally everybody in society, from those who eat cake everyday, to literally Einstein. "meritocracy" has been proven as pathological by numerous researchers on every continent for centuries. your question only makes sense in a world where capitalists can arbitrarily decide what is important to people by artificially limiting peoples access to the commodities necessary for survival via the "price" mechanism, limiting growth, ya know, line go up? TLDR: i can only be offered that $37 an hour to throw away MY time on this earth, through capitalists using the violence of the state to create accumulation through dispossession.
i really ask you, why so serious?
@@ethanstump because at the end of the day, everybody needs to eat, pay bills, and have a roof over their heads. Also, that money doesn't hurt when you go out and watch a movie that you can take quotes from.
And we knew everything what this guy talks. But who pays him for this. He is not asking if this is bull!
If you knew it before he did, why didn't you write the book? And talk with this insufferable host?
You’re wrong. He did question whether his own work had meaning. This from the Guardian in 2015: “... even admitting that his own work could be meaningless: ‘There can be no objective measure of social value.’”
12.10.2021.
That many people are struggling to find purpose in their jobs indeed seems to be true. But the thesis of this man is not validated. Within the context of the social system all these people can find purpose through self-actualization and a positive impact on the other actors within the system.
You've clearly not a done a bullshit job.
It’s a good interviewer to be honest
This is not a smart man.
Is moderator is obsessed with her devices. Just go back to the microphone