For those thinking he’s being dramatic: He’s passionate about what he’s doing. I get it. He doesn’t let them get off the hook by simply blaming his tools. That’s why he is, and will continue to be, successful. Also, Tim at Buffalo Bore really does listen to customers feedback. I’ve seen it myself.
We shouldn't let these ammo companies.off the hook. We pay top dollar for it...i dont mind target ammo being weak but definitely not a self-defense or hunting round...tools is doin us all a favor and keeping that foot on ther necks.
Amen! Love this channel because of the honesty. Real world gear in an equal test. Fantastically clear results don’t lie. Shop what works, it helps us all.
Don't ever change!!! Your tests are the best and trusted to keep the ammo manufacturers honest on what they sell us. All Underwood has to do is straighten up and fly right. It's high dollar premium ammo and should always perform as such. Hopefully they're not trying to increase their profits by scrimping on powder. Thank you T&T for catching it.
Darwin, Underwood isn't lying about anything. They rate the 10mm with a 5" barrel (like the Bren Ten and Delta Elite). I know a lot of people don't understand that and think they should get 1300 from a G29. I've suggested to underwood more than once to list their test barrel lengths on every load. But most 10mm fans, (like the entertaining man that produces this channe) know that the 10 is rated with a 5". Believe they use a 4" for the 9x19.
Your uncensored and non butt kissing honesty is a breath of fresh air in ammo testing videos! I’m a huge Underwood fan but when something doesn’t perform or is watered down. I don’t care who it’s from, call them out. Again… THANK YOU for your honesty and integrity good sir. Don’t water crap down and they won’t get butt hurt plain and simple. Awesome video as always my friend 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
agreed man!!!! I've purchased tons of ammo from Underwood and their stuff really is top notch!!!! can't comment on the 10mm, as I don't own that caliber, but yeah, if the ammo doesn't perform as good as it should or is watered down, they should be called out.
For what it is worth. I think you are one of the few honest people on YT doing firearm related content. Most other creators have their fingers in other things. Meaning they are sellouts to whoever hands them a paycheck.
Yep. They're all scared to offend companies because they want to be sellouts for freebies. I actually noticed this in real time in a Garand Thumb video where they shilled some .380 ACP hollow point ammo that absolutely sucked when fired into their ballistics dummy.
I remember when you called out Sierra for making some crappy ammo. They saw your video and they got busy making some big improvements. They went from a zero to a hero. That's the way it should be. When a high quality gun tuber, like yourself, does an ammo test that shows sup par performance, that all of us see with our own eyes, then the ammo makers need to quit making excuses and make their ammo the best it can be.
THANK YOU FOR CALLING THEM OUT. I am so tired of guntubers carrying water for a lying industry that is ripping people off, and it's so refreshing to see someone just say it like it is instead of defending them because they want free stuff from companies. Your rants are appreciated, as are the tests, keep it up man.
Yeah I don’t believe box velocities on pistol ammo anymore, what’s to say a 5” barrel to them includes the chamber? Rifle velocities are what I expect to be close b/c I use bdc reticles.
You're doing gods work for exposing those pitiful "10mm" ammos. You show customers they are being scammed, and force companies to make a change which benefits all of us. Kudos.
I don’t know how anyone could doubt your veracity. You do the best and most complete tests of ammo out there. It is nice to see some worthy 10mm for a change. Keep up the good work brother!!,
I totally have faith in your test. I tested some Underwood 40 S&W 155 grain XTP from a full size Glock 22 and it averaged 1211 fps. The box said 1300 fps. I sent the ammo back and Underwood said they also tested it from a Glock 22 and it averaged 1232 fps and told me, the speed was adequate and would not reimburse me for my ammo. Yup, sounds like Underwood. Even at 1211 fps I think it is a good speed, but did not meet there advertised speed of 1300 fps (disappointing). I wish Underwood would be honest! Keep up your great video's, I know you speak the truth!
Tools - I know why so much 10 MM lets you down. I am one of the few who has a pressure testing setup. I can tell you that the SAAMI max for 10 MM is 37500 psi, and it's 35,000 psi for 40 S&W. That's not much difference. The only other advantage you get from 10 MM is more case capacity -- so that if you wanted to burn more slower powder, you could fit it in. But, there are very few powders where you could slow down, fill all the extra between space between 40 and 10, and still maintain the SAAMI pressure spec. Also, the longer cartridge of 10 vs. 40 will require more powder to create the same pressure (if loading 10 to 35,000 psi for ex) and will give you a small velocity advantage for 10 MM, but not much. So, almost all of the velocity diff between 10 and 40 comes from the increased pressure between 10 and 40, and that's not much. The reason you're not seeing many mfrs with "impressive 10 MM" velocities is because they are keeping to SAAMI spec pressure or below, and they don't have the perfect powder that optimizes barrel length, cartridge length, etc. I can tell you from experience and my testing equipment that your "overperforming" brand of ammo for 10 MM is very likely over pressuring beyond SAAMI spec to get that performance -- not by an unsafe amount, but by enough that they feel comfortable there is still adequate safety margin in most gun designs (there are no 80 year old 10MM's out there). Most manufacturers aren't willing to do that, and they figure that what you call the "suboptimal 10MM performance" is plenty to get the job done. Keep up the good videos - I enjoy them.
"Just keep in mind that it was the same equipment that made their stuff look better". So very well said brother! So very well said! Manufacturers and fans need to stop blaming independent researchers. And need to start looking at their product and see how they can improve it! After all, people's lives could depend on this stuff! Thank you again, Tools&Targets!
Wouldn’t change anything. Definitely make my ammo selection based off your videos and I think having a high expectation is a good thing in the 10mm realm. Why pay for substandard. Enjoy the videos.
Keep on doing what you do Tools. Hold these manufactures feet to the fire. Defensive ammo must perform consistently each and every time. To much is at stake for anything else. It's all a smoke screen to divert attention from junk ammo, the blame game. Don't like the results blame the tester. You're a gem Tools. Be vigilant and always be safe my friend Have a great weekend.
The 10mm was created with a 5" barrel in mind, so I guess it just makes sense for them to use that for rating. Buffalo Bore actually pushes the limits, I'm surprised they don't blow cases out.
A fully supported barrel is what I highly suspect Buffalo Bore uses. Fully supported after market barrels are readily available for a 10 MM. If I was gonna use a 10mm to hunt in a Glock ? G40 with proper recoil setup. If it didn't have a fully supported barrel, I'd put one in the G40. JMO
I love your tests they all look legit to me. My thoughts of 10mm is still a 40+p to me based on how the manufacturers are loading it. Great video as always thanks 👍
I got on today looking for good 10mm ammo... your rant made me subscribe. If it weren't for reviews like this and others not pandering to companies, customers will go in blind. Good job.
Underwood back some years ago in that 10mm would've been 1300 plus. They are not loading their ammo to the standards they had at one time. Like Tool's said, Buffalo Bore is and has always run top speeds on their loads. Underwood needs to reevaluate their loading process. Their full loading is what put them where they are. Loading light will definitely lose customers. I noticed loads in 9mm from a few years ago are quite a bit faster than those of today. Guess Buffalo Bore will be getting more of my business. Nice test. Keep'em coming!
Ive searched TH-cam extensively for any show comparable to TOOLS. Theres a good amount of content creators out there. Imo none have the catalog and detail this show has. Plus his live shows are filled with pure passion, for tools, ammo and the country! Ive learned a ton about ammo and what to expect performance wise from this show. I feel like i know what im looking at when purchasing ammo Now. Cant express enough the value if this show to me. Hats off!
Great test and commentary. I was just considering a Glock 27 instead of a Glock 29 Gen 5 since so many 10mm ammo manufacturers "skim the latinum". I appreciate that you expose them.
Now this is an interesting scenario because The Turkey's Opinion- a fellow TH-camr- got noticeably better results testing from a Delta Elite (5 inch barrel) and a Springfield XDM (3.75 inch barrel, I believe.)
All those Commenters are just plain ignorant! Your Videos are as up front and honest as any that I have ever seen! Watching your content is almost like doing it myself and I believe what I see! Really like your content and that hat is starting to grow on me, Thanks!
Just to get this outta the way, your passion and honesty in what you do here is what drove me to be part of the Range Gang. Worth every cent. Another great test. I don't have a 10mm yet, but it is on my radar. Ft Lbs energy has always been important to me which is one of the primary reasons I tend to carry heavy for caliber in a quality ammo. A heavy, quality modern round will usually give you good penetration and expansion. I have seen xtps fail to expand at low velocity, in fact I think some of those tests were yours...lol. This performance was pretty awesome, and 600 pounds of energy is nuts. Thanks again!
Tools, I absolutely love you man. I love the videos, the accent, the hat & getup, and the energy. Man, i hope you stick with this for years to come. My dad and i absolutely love all the content you put out. Youre one of my everyday youtubers i watch. I still watch your older vids from a couple years ago too. Your videos give a wealth of info for gun owners everywhere. Thank you for all that you do and keep on rocking it brother! 👍👍
@@ToolsandTargetsyeah brother I was up in the Palms Casino in vegas last year in the VIP suite overlooking all the way to the mountains watching a bunch of your stuff before bed, looking out the window and contemplating my next pistola while my wife called me the biggest nerd. I told her I wanted that hat lol. Good times
Keep up your most excellent work, shooters need you and more people like you: honest, straight to the point with no-holds barred facts. Thanks for your continued videos and for being yourself.
As new 10mm owner, let me say thank you for your testing. You're saving me a lot of money. Keep up the good work and keep holding these ammo manufacturers to the flame. Keep em honest!
I enjoy your ammo testing, in my opinion it's the most truthful and scientific method on TH-cam. Furthermore, I shoot a Glock 20 as well, but I have issues with finding good ammo. I like using SinterFire ammo but here in California it's very difficult to find. Keep up the good work and I am glad to have found your channel.
Your words convey truth. Truth sets people free. And your words save lives. If it hasn't happened already, it will. Someone will be able to go home to their family, for more days on this beautiful Earth, because of the decisions they made, in the light of your words of truth.
I trust you Tools! Thanks for checking these manufacturers, all consumer appreciate independent testing, just like Consumer Report. You are the ammo version of CR!
The consistency of the tests are what make these very valuable to us. Same shit every time. Bullets either work or not. I have learned what will work out of different size barrels and what wont. Lots of hype behind from the marketers. Thanks. The work shows.
I love your videos and i really appreciate you putting in the effort and work to make sure we get the best ammo we can and manufactures really need to load 10mm the way 10mm should be 650-700 ft/lbs muzzle energy from a 5in barrel
I watched another video comparing 180 Buffalo Bore with 180 Underwood Ammo. The Buffalo Bore was only going 19 fee per second faster in that video. I'm going to say there's probably some inconsistency in the loading on Underwood Ammo. Some batches probably do better than others. I was kind of shocked to see that kind of a comparison between the two myself. They were using a 5-inch Rock Island Armory gun and the Underwood Ammo was shooting 1348 ft per second, I believe, and the Underwood Ammo was shooting 167 feet per second, I think. I carry the Underwood because I tried to get some 147 green 9mm through Buffalo Moore a few years back, and it was always on backorder. I just went with the Underwood Ammo stuff. I've been ordering from Underwood ever since.
Your testing is beyond reproach. You tell it like it is, no BS. Maybe if there was less butt kissing and excuse making by other testers, the manufacturers might finally catch on and give us some 10mm that’s worthy of the title. Thanks for your passion, dedication and hard work. 👍👍
Thank you sir. Them being catered to by most of the "reviewers" is definitely a big part of the problem. They're used to them being so money hungry they'll say anything for a few bucks.
Been following you for quite a while and have never known you to do anything but tell it the way it is. Keep doing you. Keep telling it the way it is and everybody else be damned.
Hey Tools, don't beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel Lol ! Im so glad we have you looking out for us,ammo cost too much anyway! Don't have a 10mm but i do shoot 357magnum & 45-70. I cant even safely match Buffalo Bore's 180gr 357magnum with my handloads. Unlike some, Tim doesn't skimp when it comes to powder! Thanks for your test!
@@g.brooks5866 My mistake I carry the same gun and sometimes carry a full size sig sauer tac ops 1911 and when in the woods we have black bear I carry a rock island double stack . I carry my xdm in aa C&G kydex holster but have been looking for a leather holster .
@@curtis6554 Nice! I've heard good things about the Rock Island double stacks and BUL Armory options too. I've been using the CrossBreed Reckoning System for the XDM-E but just sent it back for adjustment bc they said it wasn't molded correctly... too much trigger guard was exposed. It's really comfortable and great quality with solid retention, worth checking out.
So glad I found your channel! I love your ammo tests. Best on the tube in my opinion, and definitely, I feel, the most honest. No bullshit with you brother! Thanks for doing what you do
I just tested the velocity of the Underwood 180 XTP today. I got a 5 shot average of 1328 with 705 ft. lbs. out of my new Springfield Armory Ronin 1911 5". The lowest was 1307 and the highest 1353 with an ES of 46. These felt stout! I have a Shooting Chrony- Beta for testing. From Geo Ballistics at 50 yards it calculates at 1182 fps with 558 ft. lbs. Thought you might want to know what a 5" barrel gets from these. Love the videos and the testing.
Underwood tests from a 5” barrel. That being said I have switched to Grizzly ammo for my factory 10mm. I see higher than box listed velocity using my Lab Radar with both my Sig P320 X-Ten and Glock model 40. The Buffalo Bore I’ve tested had inconsistent velocities. Double Tap was even worse.
For that end rant I believe it. Hes not afraid to tell it like it is. I gained a lot of respect when Tools stuck it to Sig with the whole ordeal with the sig 22 issues. Even when diehard Sig fan boys who cant take criticisms were looking for any reason to blame tools
Dang I just bought some of those Nosler loads, but have not chronographed them yet. I DID shoot them out of my Springfield xdm elite just as a function check and BOY was there more recoil than my handload 180 xtps that were clocking in at about 1260 fps. Now I have to run them over the chrono to see what they actually clock in at. Keep up the good work, ill let ya know my results.
I agree that companies should be called out for not giving claimed box velocities. Sure, there are variations based on barrel length, gun, temperature, altitude, etc but it should be relative close as long as the gun is a full size. Good video! I've shot this round before through several Glock 10mm's (Underwood 180gr XTP 10mm) and it was very accurate.
Just bought six boxes straight from Underwood this morning for my G29. Perfect timing for this video, glad it performed accordingly. All hail the mighty 10!
very good video. Bought this a couple months ago. Just saw Garand thumb do a video on this too. Your video has a lot more facts and real testing. Thank you!!!
I value your efforts very much and appreciate it! That 490 fpe @ 50 yds is nice!! Looks like some good stuff for sure! 💪 Happy Friday brother hope ya have a great weekend! 💥💥
Another great test, Brian! I agree with you 100%! This shows that you just have to be careful to know exactly what you're ordering when you purchase ammo - from anyone! I had high hopes for the 180 XTP bullets I ordered but after your last test I had doubts, although I was sure I could beat the velocity numbers. So far I've gotten some velocity data but winter has put the brakes on my expansion & penetration tests. I'm much to old and cranky to get my delicate paws wet when it's freezing cold out there! But at least I know now these 180's will work when I drive them fast enough. The 155 XTP's had great expansion but the penetration was terrible at just over 10"! I do believe these 180 XTP will fulfill my expectations as backup ammo to my usual Lehigh Xtreme Defender's! I still have more bullets to test come summer (Berry Hybrid 180 & some pulled WW bullets from RMR) but it will just be gravy to these XTP's. Thanks again for all your time and hard work! Cheers, jc
For me it's just plain old age and being too cranky to put up with misery I don't really absolutely need to deal with! The older I get, the less willing am to get out there a do yard work, put the leaf blower on my back or anythink else that looks like manual labor! At 71 I'm getting to be more and more a curmudgeon and geezerhood has pretty much taken over my life! Stuff hurts that shouldn't and more than few things just don't work they way they used to! Getting old is not for the faint hearted! Cheers, jc
Don't even say the word leaf blower around me!😆😆😆 I have an ocean of leaves to get up right now and I'm thinking to myself...Should I really strap on that blower and spend hours blowing leaves or should I pay someone 100 bucks to just get it done.😆😆@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549
I really appreciate all your 10 mm videos. After watching many of them I use Buffalo bore 180 grain for those 2 legged critters.. underwood is a good runner-up.
100% agreed. Great test and results. Would use that ammo if I had a 10mm. As far as your testing brother, you are good to go. We do not need to see a controlled environment test. Normal everyday weather and conditions is good enough. Keep on trucking my friend. Good stuff. Thanks for your honesty and for sharing. Best test around in my opinion. Be safe. 👊⭐️🇺🇸👊🇺🇸⭐️
Underwood I expect used a 6” barrel to get those velocity of 1300 fps. I did noticed they lowered their charge weight from 8.6 to 8.4 in their 220gr Hardcast with Longshot powder.
Tools, there's a world full of TH-cam buffoons out there who think that their BS macho testosterone overload bravado is how the content should be presented. But you ain't one of them..! You are the most credible, consistent, honest and reliable man on the plaform. Don't let the bastards get you down. You are the tops when it comes to credibility and integrity. I salute you. Thanks for bringing it.
Good Lord Tools....you were PISSED!!.....I hope you feel better now......Thanks for the VIdeo...outstanding as usual. I fired a gen 2 Glock 20 with a mystery load at an indoor range about 25 years ago and I remember thinking that it felt weak for the size of the tool. Maybe 10 has always been generally weak or maybe it was just the range ammo. I don't know. Thanks again and sleep well tonight.
I believe the "Other" Underwood 10mm 180gr is a Nosler Sporting Jacket (ASP?) bullet. I remember reading the Nosler ASP can't handle the higher velocities that the Hornday XTP can. Underwood lists the 10mm 180gr Sporting Jacket velocity at 1250 fps and the XTP is listed at 1300 fps. The listed velocities for both bullet types shows Underwood is aware of the discrepancy between the two. I enjoyed this test for another reason as well. The Hornady XTP bullet has a reputation for getting clogged and not fully expanding in clothing. I started having my doubts if the XTP was a viable carry round due to the reputation. Tools, you just proved, THAT MYTH IS INCORRECT. Thanks for proving it.
First for a change. Had to finish the video don't hold back tools tell it like it is. I appreciate how you keep it real honesty means a lot. Keep the videos coming please sir👍.
The 140 grain extreme defender feels really strong out of my g40 I don’t have a chrono but it would be cool to see you test some of that stuff.. against some Buffalo bore. I pretty much make all my choices on what I purchase for my 10mm from your videos.. thanks for the videos tools!! 🤛 💯 💪 ❤
I dont want 180 grain in 10mm. If i did id shoot 40 caliber. Underwood makes 200 grain xtp and hard cast. I have em all. I trust your testing. You do a great job. Please shoot the 200 grain Underwood ammos. I have not tested them. But i will.
I can’t seem to get enough of your gel test videos. Do you think you can give us one with 10mm Federal Train + Protect? Thank you for the informative content please keep it coming. I have a G29 and appreciate your tests.
This is close enough for me, but I run a Glock 40 so I know I’ll pick up at least 50 fps. Eventually I’ll probably just start reloading because it’s so hard to get real 10mm. Great testing and I’m glad you hold a high standard for this round, too many people let it slide as ‘good enough’ when that’s not the point of the round. It’s designed for a specific power level, it should meet it. If I just grabbed any ammo off the shelf and went into bear country it could be the last mistake I ever make, and I really do care about those last hundred fps or so for the energy.
For those thinking he’s being dramatic: He’s passionate about what he’s doing. I get it. He doesn’t let them get off the hook by simply blaming his tools. That’s why he is, and will continue to be, successful. Also, Tim at Buffalo Bore really does listen to customers feedback. I’ve seen it myself.
Appreciate ya, brother. He loads it right for sure.😎👊
We shouldn't let these ammo companies.off the hook. We pay top dollar for it...i dont mind target ammo being weak but definitely not a self-defense or hunting round...tools is doin us all a favor and keeping that foot on ther necks.
They are just arguing with a lab radar in the end😆
Amen! Love this channel because of the honesty. Real world gear in an equal test. Fantastically clear results don’t lie. Shop what works, it helps us all.
@@sparky_-mf2csexcept 1250 isnt weak: its right inline with book data for 180g
Don't ever change!!! Your tests are the best and trusted to keep the ammo manufacturers honest on what they sell us. All Underwood has to do is straighten up and fly right. It's high dollar premium ammo and should always perform as such. Hopefully they're not trying to increase their profits by scrimping on powder. Thank you T&T for catching it.
Appreciate that, my friend.😎👊
Darwin, Underwood isn't lying about anything. They rate the 10mm with a 5" barrel (like the Bren Ten and Delta Elite). I know a lot of people don't understand that and think they should get 1300 from a G29. I've suggested to underwood more than once to list their test barrel lengths on every load. But most 10mm fans, (like the entertaining man that produces this channe) know that the 10 is rated with a 5". Believe they use a 4" for the 9x19.
Your uncensored and non butt kissing honesty is a breath of fresh air in ammo testing videos! I’m a huge Underwood fan but when something doesn’t perform or is watered down. I don’t care who it’s from, call them out. Again… THANK YOU for your honesty and integrity good sir. Don’t water crap down and they won’t get butt hurt plain and simple. Awesome video as always my friend 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
agreed man!!!! I've purchased tons of ammo from Underwood and their stuff really is top notch!!!! can't comment on the 10mm, as I don't own that caliber, but yeah, if the ammo doesn't perform as good as it should or is watered down, they should be called out.
I love your passion for 10mm quality! You speak the truth!
Appreciate ya, brother!😎👊
You are the one I tune in to to get the majority of info for all you do..much appreciated and thank you@@ToolsandTargets
For what it is worth. I think you are one of the few honest people on YT doing firearm related content. Most other creators have their fingers in other things. Meaning they are sellouts to whoever hands them a paycheck.
Appreciate that. I just call it how I see it.😎👍
Yep. They're all scared to offend companies because they want to be sellouts for freebies. I actually noticed this in real time in a Garand Thumb video where they shilled some .380 ACP hollow point ammo that absolutely sucked when fired into their ballistics dummy.
I remember when you called out Sierra for making some crappy ammo. They saw your video and they got busy making some big improvements. They went from a zero to a hero. That's the way it should be. When a high quality gun tuber, like yourself, does an ammo test that shows sup par performance, that all of us see with our own eyes, then the ammo makers need to quit making excuses and make their ammo the best it can be.
I guess some folks can't handle the truth.😆
THANK YOU FOR CALLING THEM OUT. I am so tired of guntubers carrying water for a lying industry that is ripping people off, and it's so refreshing to see someone just say it like it is instead of defending them because they want free stuff from companies.
Your rants are appreciated, as are the tests, keep it up man.
Appreciate that, my friend.😎👊
Yeah I don’t believe box velocities on pistol ammo anymore, what’s to say a 5” barrel to them includes the chamber? Rifle velocities are what I expect to be close b/c I use bdc reticles.
@@goodnewseverybody739 Call them out on what? What did they lie about? How are they ripping you off?
You're doing gods work for exposing those pitiful "10mm" ammos. You show customers they are being scammed, and force companies to make a change which benefits all of us. Kudos.
How are they being scammed?
I don’t know how anyone could doubt your veracity. You do the best and most complete tests of ammo out there. It is nice to see some worthy 10mm for a change. Keep up the good work brother!!,
I totally have faith in your test. I tested some Underwood 40 S&W 155 grain XTP from a full size Glock 22 and it averaged 1211 fps. The box said 1300 fps. I sent the ammo back and Underwood said they also tested it from a Glock 22 and it averaged 1232 fps and told me, the speed was adequate and would not reimburse me for my ammo. Yup, sounds like Underwood. Even at 1211 fps I think it is a good speed, but did not meet there advertised speed of 1300 fps (disappointing). I wish Underwood would be honest! Keep up your great video's, I know you speak the truth!
It's false advertising they should be held accountable.
It's nice to see someone who is actually honest and not a shill for a company. Thanks for all your tests!
This video is a prime example of why I'm a subscriber here. A no nonsense, no BS review. Good on ya.
Tools - I know why so much 10 MM lets you down. I am one of the few who has a pressure testing setup. I can tell you that the SAAMI max for 10 MM is 37500 psi, and it's 35,000 psi for 40 S&W. That's not much difference. The only other advantage you get from 10 MM is more case capacity -- so that if you wanted to burn more slower powder, you could fit it in. But, there are very few powders where you could slow down, fill all the extra between space between 40 and 10, and still maintain the SAAMI pressure spec. Also, the longer cartridge of 10 vs. 40 will require more powder to create the same pressure (if loading 10 to 35,000 psi for ex) and will give you a small velocity advantage for 10 MM, but not much. So, almost all of the velocity diff between 10 and 40 comes from the increased pressure between 10 and 40, and that's not much. The reason you're not seeing many mfrs with "impressive 10 MM" velocities is because they are keeping to SAAMI spec pressure or below, and they don't have the perfect powder that optimizes barrel length, cartridge length, etc. I can tell you from experience and my testing equipment that your "overperforming" brand of ammo for 10 MM is very likely over pressuring beyond SAAMI spec to get that performance -- not by an unsafe amount, but by enough that they feel comfortable there is still adequate safety margin in most gun designs (there are no 80 year old 10MM's out there). Most manufacturers aren't willing to do that, and they figure that what you call the "suboptimal 10MM performance" is plenty to get the job done. Keep up the good videos - I enjoy them.
"Just keep in mind that it was the same equipment that made their stuff look better".
So very well said brother! So very well said!
Manufacturers and fans need to stop blaming independent researchers. And need to start looking at their product and see how they can improve it! After all, people's lives could depend on this stuff!
Thank you again, Tools&Targets!
Appreciate ya, brother.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets That goes both ways, Stay strong, and don't let them get to ya!
Wouldn’t change anything. Definitely make my ammo selection based off your videos and I think having a high expectation is a good thing in the 10mm realm. Why pay for substandard. Enjoy the videos.
Appreciate that 😎👊
I'm with you 100 percent. Great test and great job as always my friend.
Thank you sir.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets Your welcome. 👍👍👍
Keep on doing what you do Tools. Hold these manufactures feet to the fire. Defensive ammo must perform consistently each and every time. To much is at stake for anything else. It's all a smoke screen to divert attention from junk ammo, the blame game. Don't like the results blame the tester. You're a gem Tools.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend
Have a great weekend.
Appreciate that, brother.😎👊
The 10mm was created with a 5" barrel in mind, so I guess it just makes sense for them to use that for rating. Buffalo Bore actually pushes the limits, I'm surprised they don't blow cases out.
A fully supported barrel is what I highly suspect Buffalo Bore uses. Fully supported after market barrels are readily available for a 10 MM. If I was gonna use a 10mm to hunt in a Glock ? G40 with proper recoil setup. If it didn't have a fully supported barrel, I'd put one in the G40. JMO
Your 10mm tests and opinions are spot on !!
Keep up the good work !!
😎👊
I love your tests they all look legit to me. My thoughts of 10mm is still a 40+p to me based on how the manufacturers are loading it. Great video as always thanks 👍
Thank you sir.😎👊
I got on today looking for good 10mm ammo... your rant made me subscribe. If it weren't for reviews like this and others not pandering to companies, customers will go in blind. Good job.
Appreciate that. I have a really good 10mm video coming up with three top dogs.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets well I'll hold off until you release it. Keep up the great work and don't relent on your ethics or feedback.
You keep doing what you are doing. I prefer the raw truth as compared to the glossed over warm fuzzy. Thank you for keeping it real.
😎👊
Underwood back some years ago in that 10mm would've been 1300 plus. They are not loading their ammo to the standards they had at one time. Like Tool's said, Buffalo Bore is and has always run top speeds on their loads. Underwood needs to reevaluate their loading process. Their full loading is what put them where they are. Loading light will definitely lose customers. I noticed loads in 9mm from a few years ago are quite a bit faster than those of today. Guess Buffalo Bore will be getting more of my business.
Nice test.
Keep'em coming!
Thank you sir. It does seem like they're going in a "cheaper' direction lately.
Ive searched TH-cam extensively for any show comparable to TOOLS. Theres a good amount of content creators out there. Imo none have the catalog and detail this show has. Plus his live shows are filled with pure passion, for tools, ammo and the country! Ive learned a ton about ammo and what to expect performance wise from this show. I feel like i know what im looking at when purchasing ammo Now. Cant express enough the value if this show to me. Hats off!
Great test and commentary. I was just considering a Glock 27 instead of a Glock 29 Gen 5 since so many 10mm ammo manufacturers "skim the latinum". I appreciate that you expose them.
I just love the passion 😅 a 10mm video from tools is ALWAYS going to be a good watch! Keep it up brother 💪👍
Appreciate ya, my friend.😎👊
Now this is an interesting scenario because The Turkey's Opinion- a fellow TH-camr- got noticeably better results testing from a Delta Elite (5 inch barrel) and a Springfield XDM (3.75 inch barrel, I believe.)
All those Commenters are just plain ignorant! Your Videos are as up front and honest as any that I have ever seen! Watching your content is almost like doing it myself and I believe what I see! Really like your content and that hat is starting to grow on me, Thanks!
Appreciate that, brother!😎👊
Now that’s a True 10MM round! Let’s make 10mm a good comeback
Just to get this outta the way, your passion and honesty in what you do here is what drove me to be part of the Range Gang. Worth every cent. Another great test. I don't have a 10mm yet, but it is on my radar. Ft Lbs energy has always been important to me which is one of the primary reasons I tend to carry heavy for caliber in a quality ammo. A heavy, quality modern round will usually give you good penetration and expansion. I have seen xtps fail to expand at low velocity, in fact I think some of those tests were yours...lol. This performance was pretty awesome, and 600 pounds of energy is nuts. Thanks again!
Really appreciate that, my friend.😎👊
9mm guy with my 1st 10mm G40. Your work is invaluable to me. Thank you for your efforts.
Tools,
I absolutely love you man. I love the videos, the accent, the hat & getup, and the energy. Man, i hope you stick with this for years to come. My dad and i absolutely love all the content you put out. Youre one of my everyday youtubers i watch. I still watch your older vids from a couple years ago too. Your videos give a wealth of info for gun owners everywhere. Thank you for all that you do and keep on rocking it brother! 👍👍
Appreciate that, bigtime. I'll stick around as long as YT lets the big bad gun stuff stay on here.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargetsyeah brother I was up in the Palms Casino in vegas last year in the VIP suite overlooking all the way to the mountains watching a bunch of your stuff before bed, looking out the window and contemplating my next pistola while my wife called me the biggest nerd. I told her I wanted that hat lol. Good times
I shoot hundreds of 10mm a week and reloading the same. He's pretty spot on his research!! Good stuff!!
Keep up your most excellent work, shooters need you and more people like you: honest, straight to the point with no-holds barred facts. Thanks for your continued videos and for being yourself.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that!😎👊
As new 10mm owner, let me say thank you for your testing. You're saving me a lot of money. Keep up the good work and keep holding these ammo manufacturers to the flame. Keep em honest!
Good afternoon. Thanks for all the hard work. Much love brother. Just picked up some buffalo bore 180s.
Nice. Definitely my favorite 10mm.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets, Buffalo Bore is the Only 10mm ammo I buy and run in my XDM Elite 3.8. Thanks for what you do.
@@ToolsandTargets, in the past I have run Sentinel 10mm. Very good stuff. But my choice is Buffalo Bore. It’s all I buy now.
I haven’t seen velocities this consistent in a long, long time. Almost like custom ammo. Another great test sir.
Aside from Buffalo Bore I still like the 10mm V-Crowns. These did good though. Now I have 3 to choose from.
Always good to have some options.😎👊
I enjoy your ammo testing, in my opinion it's the most truthful and scientific method on TH-cam. Furthermore, I shoot a Glock 20 as well, but I have issues with finding good ammo. I like using SinterFire ammo but here in California it's very difficult to find. Keep up the good work and I am glad to have found your channel.
Thank you sir. Appreciate that.😎👊
Tools is the Titan of 10mm for sure! Keep up the pressure for proper loadings!
Your words convey truth. Truth sets people free. And your words save lives. If it hasn't happened already, it will. Someone will be able to go home to their family, for more days on this beautiful Earth, because of the decisions they made, in the light of your words of truth.
I love it ! You tell it how it is , and you're the BEST at what you do . Nothin' else to say . Thanks T&T , I really enjoyed this video !
Thank you again, brother! Have a great weekend!😎👊
I trust you Tools! Thanks for checking these manufacturers, all consumer appreciate independent testing, just like Consumer Report. You are the ammo version of CR!
You should try doubletap 125 grain all copper rounds, they seem to be a good powerful round.
All the things you have to make these videos ARE very expensive! Camera, gel, chronographs, and more.
I appreciate all you do VERY much!
The consistency of the tests are what make these very valuable to us. Same shit every time. Bullets either work or not. I have learned what will work out of different size barrels and what wont. Lots of hype behind from the marketers. Thanks. The work shows.
Appreciate that. I give em all the same chance.😎👊
Really enjoy the 10mm tests, and esp. as someone who is new to the caliber, appreciate your zeal for REAL 10mm and I’m with you.
I love your videos and i really appreciate you putting in the effort and work to make sure we get the best ammo we can and manufactures really need to load 10mm the way 10mm should be 650-700 ft/lbs muzzle energy from a 5in barrel
Thank you sir.😎👊
I watched another video comparing 180 Buffalo Bore with 180 Underwood Ammo. The Buffalo Bore was only going 19 fee per second faster in that video. I'm going to say there's probably some inconsistency in the loading on Underwood Ammo. Some batches probably do better than others. I was kind of shocked to see that kind of a comparison between the two myself. They were using a 5-inch Rock Island Armory gun and the Underwood Ammo was shooting 1348 ft per second, I believe, and the Underwood Ammo was shooting 167 feet per second, I think. I carry the Underwood because I tried to get some 147 green 9mm through Buffalo Moore a few years back, and it was always on backorder. I just went with the Underwood Ammo stuff. I've been ordering from Underwood ever since.
Your testing is beyond reproach. You tell it like it is, no BS. Maybe if there was less butt kissing and excuse making by other testers, the manufacturers might finally catch on and give us some 10mm that’s worthy of the title.
Thanks for your passion, dedication and hard work.
👍👍
Thank you sir. Them being catered to by most of the "reviewers" is definitely a big part of the problem. They're used to them being so money hungry they'll say anything for a few bucks.
@@ToolsandTargets
It’s sad but true. I’m glad you’re out there, telling it like it is. 🎯
Been following you for quite a while and have never known you to do anything but tell it the way it is. Keep doing you. Keep telling it the way it is and everybody else be damned.
Appreciate that, brother.😎👊
Hey Tools, don't beat around the bush, tell us how you really feel Lol ! Im so glad we have you looking out for us,ammo cost too much anyway! Don't have a 10mm but i do shoot 357magnum & 45-70. I cant even safely match Buffalo Bore's 180gr 357magnum with my handloads. Unlike some, Tim doesn't skimp when it comes to powder! Thanks for your test!
Hey Tools, Great test as always. Glock 40 owner here, so I really appreciate this one. Keep up the good work Sir!👍👍👊
😎👊
Don’t stress yourself out about this. You do it perfectly.
my everyday carry is a 4" 10 mm loaded with the 180 xtp . I feel very secure with this load . great video
Thank you sir.😎👊
Which model of you don't mind me asking...I carry an XDM elite 3.8" , nice compact 10mm 💯
@@g.brooks5866 My mistake I carry the same gun and sometimes carry a full size sig sauer tac ops 1911 and when in the woods we have black bear I carry a rock island double stack . I carry my xdm in aa C&G kydex holster but have been looking for a leather holster .
@@curtis6554 Nice! I've heard good things about the Rock Island double stacks and BUL Armory options too. I've been using the CrossBreed Reckoning System for the XDM-E but just sent it back for adjustment bc they said it wasn't molded correctly... too much trigger guard was exposed. It's really comfortable and great quality with solid retention, worth checking out.
So glad I found your channel! I love your ammo tests. Best on the tube in my opinion, and definitely, I feel, the most honest. No bullshit with you brother! Thanks for doing what you do
I just tested the velocity of the Underwood 180 XTP today. I got a 5 shot average of 1328 with 705 ft. lbs. out of my new Springfield Armory Ronin 1911 5". The lowest was 1307 and the highest 1353 with an ES of 46. These felt stout! I have a Shooting Chrony- Beta for testing. From Geo Ballistics at 50 yards it calculates at 1182 fps with 558 ft. lbs. Thought you might want to know what a 5" barrel gets from these. Love the videos and the testing.
Underwood tests from a 5” barrel. That being said I have switched to Grizzly ammo for my factory 10mm. I see higher than box listed velocity using my Lab Radar with both my Sig P320 X-Ten and Glock model 40. The Buffalo Bore I’ve tested had inconsistent velocities. Double Tap was even worse.
Keep Em' coming Tools, ... you got the best ammo review channel now. I respect your thoroughness, procedures, and no bullshitt videos.
For that end rant I believe it. Hes not afraid to tell it like it is.
I gained a lot of respect when Tools stuck it to Sig with the whole ordeal with the sig 22 issues. Even when diehard Sig fan boys who cant take criticisms were looking for any reason to blame tools
Damn, do I love a good 10mm rant Brian; you're the best ammo reviewer on the web
Congrats on 58k Brother
Dang I just bought some of those Nosler loads, but have not chronographed them yet. I DID shoot them out of my Springfield xdm elite just as a function check and BOY was there more recoil than my handload 180 xtps that were clocking in at about 1260 fps. Now I have to run them over the chrono to see what they actually clock in at. Keep up the good work, ill let ya know my results.
I agree that companies should be called out for not giving claimed box velocities. Sure, there are variations based on barrel length, gun, temperature, altitude, etc but it should be relative close as long as the gun is a full size. Good video! I've shot this round before through several Glock 10mm's (Underwood 180gr XTP 10mm) and it was very accurate.
😎👊
Just bought six boxes straight from Underwood this morning for my G29.
Perfect timing for this video, glad it performed accordingly. All hail the mighty 10!
😎👊
Just like Mr. Harrell says,"Chronographs don't always agree with each other" 😅 It's good seeing actual results from you no matter what!❤
very good video. Bought this a couple months ago. Just saw Garand thumb do a video on this too. Your video has a lot more facts and real testing. Thank you!!!
Appreciate that!😎👊
I value your efforts very much and appreciate it! That 490 fpe @ 50 yds is nice!! Looks like some good stuff for sure! 💪 Happy Friday brother hope ya have a great weekend! 💥💥
Thank you sir. Same to you!😎👊
As a 357 fanboy i didnt think i had a need for a 10mm...well i finally caved in . Pikin one up sunday. Not because i need it but because i want it 😂
Another great test, Brian! I agree with you 100%! This shows that you just have to be careful to know exactly what you're ordering when you purchase ammo - from anyone! I had high hopes for the 180 XTP bullets I ordered but after your last test I had doubts, although I was sure I could beat the velocity numbers. So far I've gotten some velocity data but winter has put the brakes on my expansion & penetration tests. I'm much to old and cranky to get my delicate paws wet when it's freezing cold out there! But at least I know now these 180's will work when I drive them fast enough. The 155 XTP's had great expansion but the penetration was terrible at just over 10"! I do believe these 180 XTP will fulfill my expectations as backup ammo to my usual Lehigh Xtreme Defender's! I still have more bullets to test come summer (Berry Hybrid 180 & some pulled WW bullets from RMR) but it will just be gravy to these XTP's.
Thanks again for all your time and hard work!
Cheers,
jc
Thank you sir. I know what you mean about the cold. The wind is what gets me the worst.😆😆😆
For me it's just plain old age and being too cranky to put up with misery I don't really absolutely need to deal with! The older I get, the less willing am to get out there a do yard work, put the leaf blower on my back or anythink else that looks like manual labor! At 71 I'm getting to be more and more a curmudgeon and geezerhood has pretty much taken over my life! Stuff hurts that shouldn't and more than few things just don't work they way they used to! Getting old is not for the faint hearted!
Cheers,
jc
Don't even say the word leaf blower around me!😆😆😆 I have an ocean of leaves to get up right now and I'm thinking to myself...Should I really strap on that blower and spend hours blowing leaves or should I pay someone 100 bucks to just get it done.😆😆@@jmichaelcarbonniere9549
Tools & Targets out here in the back of every single ammo manufacturer's minds. Keep up the good work !
I've been loving my glock 40 with kkm 6.5in barrel. Getting between 730-750ft lbs of energy with 180gr pill not loaded hot.
I really appreciate all your 10 mm videos. After watching many of them I use Buffalo bore 180 grain for those 2 legged critters.. underwood is a good runner-up.
100% agreed. Great test and results. Would use that ammo if I had a 10mm. As far as your testing brother, you are good to go. We do not need to see a controlled environment test. Normal everyday weather and conditions is good enough. Keep on trucking my friend. Good stuff. Thanks for your honesty and for sharing. Best test around in my opinion. Be safe. 👊⭐️🇺🇸👊🇺🇸⭐️
Always good to see you out here telling it like it is. 👏 👏 👏
I can’t believe you didn’t run a vs with theBuffalo Bore
Underwood I expect used a 6” barrel to get those velocity of 1300 fps. I did noticed they lowered their charge weight from 8.6 to 8.4 in their 220gr Hardcast with Longshot powder.
Love the passion brother. U are my go to when it comes to all ammo testing especially 10mm. I only carry ur recommendations in 10mm.
Love your honesty Tools. 🇺🇸
Appreciate that, brother.😎👊
Have Glock 40 w/KTM barrel. Run Sig VCrowns for social work…Roll my own with xtreme Penetrators for the wilderness
Great Video Bro, Gotta
Love The 10mm...
Tools, there's a world full of TH-cam buffoons out there who think that their BS macho testosterone overload bravado is how the content should be presented. But you ain't one of them..! You are the most credible, consistent, honest and reliable man on the plaform. Don't let the bastards get you down. You are the tops when it comes to credibility and integrity. I salute you. Thanks for bringing it.
Please keep doing what you do. I don't doubt your honesty, which is why your one of my favorite gun channels on the Tube.
Good Lord Tools....you were PISSED!!.....I hope you feel better now......Thanks for the VIdeo...outstanding as usual. I fired a gen 2 Glock 20 with a mystery load at an indoor range about 25 years ago and I remember thinking that it felt weak for the size of the tool. Maybe 10 has always been generally weak or maybe it was just the range ammo. I don't know. Thanks again and sleep well tonight.
Best ammo reviewer on TH-cam. Always telling it how it is! Thanks for doing what you do jelly man, keep it up!
I believe the "Other" Underwood 10mm 180gr is a Nosler Sporting Jacket (ASP?) bullet. I remember reading the Nosler ASP can't handle the higher velocities that the Hornday XTP can.
Underwood lists the 10mm 180gr Sporting Jacket velocity at 1250 fps and the XTP is listed at 1300 fps.
The listed velocities for both bullet types shows Underwood is aware of the discrepancy between the two.
I enjoyed this test for another reason as well. The Hornady XTP bullet has a reputation for getting clogged and not fully expanding in clothing. I started having my doubts if the XTP was a viable carry round due to the reputation. Tools, you just proved, THAT MYTH IS INCORRECT. Thanks for proving it.
Thank you sir. XTP's just like their speed.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets What is the lowest speed for an XTP? The Hornady 40 S&W 180gr is rated for 1000 fps. That seems too slow for me.
First for a change. Had to finish the video don't hold back tools tell it like it is. I appreciate how you keep it real honesty means a lot. Keep the videos coming please sir👍.
💥😎👊💥
Curious if you've tested recent production of the Buffalo Bore stuff to see if they're maintaining their performance levels.
I've tested post-scamdemic stuff and it's as spicy as before.
Thanks for continuing to test 10mm. I think these rounds did great.
I have some more coming up.😎👊
The 140 grain extreme defender feels really strong out of my g40 I don’t have a chrono but it would be cool to see you test some of that stuff.. against some Buffalo bore. I pretty much make all my choices on what I purchase for my 10mm from your videos.. thanks for the videos tools!! 🤛 💯 💪 ❤
Thank you sir.😎👊
I love the fact you dont care about ammo makers, and you just say it how it is!!!
I dont want 180 grain in 10mm. If i did id shoot 40 caliber. Underwood makes 200 grain xtp and hard cast. I have em all. I trust your testing. You do a great job. Please shoot the 200 grain Underwood ammos. I have not tested them. But i will.
Great test Tools! I'm glad they redeemed themselves. Keep up the amazing tests you do.
Thank you sir.😎👊
Good test.
What do you think about adding a result clip of the buffalo compared to the other 10’s you test
I can’t seem to get enough of your gel test videos. Do you think you can give us one with 10mm Federal Train + Protect? Thank you for the informative content please keep it coming. I have a G29 and appreciate your tests.
So glad u turned me on to that Olight Tools! Have one on my Glock Model 40 MOS (10mm of course) great light!!
This is close enough for me, but I run a Glock 40 so I know I’ll pick up at least 50 fps. Eventually I’ll probably just start reloading because it’s so hard to get real 10mm. Great testing and I’m glad you hold a high standard for this round, too many people let it slide as ‘good enough’ when that’s not the point of the round. It’s designed for a specific power level, it should meet it. If I just grabbed any ammo off the shelf and went into bear country it could be the last mistake I ever make, and I really do care about those last hundred fps or so for the energy.
Your opinion is Highly Respected!!!!!!!
Appreciate that, brother!😎👊
Just keep on keeping on Tools , you tell it the way it is that's why I watch your videos!
😎👊
I just got some xtp 180 grain 10mm for deer hunting have not shot it yet but I think it will work fine for what I am doing