I'm sure this customer will appreciate all the work you're doing to get the game's Black Knight back on his horse after he rode through fire and blew chips.
I like how you teach. Most people in electronics repair videos want you to go to electronics school and learn all the technical stuff first before you can understand what they are telling you. The way you teach will give novices the boost they need to get them interested in trying to repair stuff on their own. I see this as a good thing. Electronics can be so overwhelming that most potential future repair men or women will give up way too early. Yes a person should learn the basic terminology so they have a basic understanding of electronics and how things work. No a person doesn’t have to have a 4 year college course to repair a pcb.
I hate the elitist attitude a lot of techs have, even worse a lot of times they won't work on things they feel are beneath them, I think if somebody's willing to work on something that's a good thing even if they make mistakes and don't know what they're doing. Most of the repair is just slowly thinking about what the problem logically is, and working through it the best you can step by step. Thank you for watching Bill!
Great video most people would have given up not Lyons arcade. Thanks for sharing love the videos and appreciate the time you spend making them. Have a great weekend guys.
This is a test of patience. Pure and Simple. How many would have given up, and just bought a complete new board? At some point, you are just trying to save face. Brovo Zulu for keeping at it.
That is such a beautiful machine! Regarding the smoke, whilst upgrading _virtual_ pinball machines _(with new toys etc)_ on *two* separate occasions *in front* of *two* separate customers, I've shorted boards - smoke aplenty! Very embarising when it's your fault *and* having the owners witness it! 😂
Man I love watching you do this. Reminds me of my earlier career days working on the test bench and figuring out a problem. then when you tried all possibilities and you had no reasoning for the error you just starting to increase the voltage until the problem presented itself. Usually ended up in a bad via or shorted PCB trace on the inner layers. Now that I design circuit boards for a living its fun to see the old PCBs and how they are routed. I'm designing 20+ layer PCBs these days.
Great video, these old boards have been to hell and back. Good work on trudging through it. I find it much easier to do all this work on a bench, but this works too. Those white sockets are always replaced when I tackle a sys 3-7. Thanks for the process.
Well, if we didn't know it by now, this video would be definitive proof that you really love your work! Most of us would probably just say "screw it" and start scavenging for a replacement board by the half of the video!
I attended a Military School in Missouri (Wentworth) and our rival school had a rifle spinning stunt performer named the Black Knight who beat us every time we competed. The guy who installed arcade games in the Wentworth snack-bar told us he had a brand new modern pinball machine coming with the then new digital scoreboard and synthesized sounds. The entire school and staff all went nuts when he brought in this Black Night pinball machine. LOL It was crazy!
You guys are amazing!!! I'm a technician for Toshiba. We just troubleshoot to the PCB and replaced the whole thing. Just to watch you guys do this is mind blowing. I'm new to the channel and just wanted to tell you guys thanks for the advance learning. Cheers!!!
It's changed a lot over the years, the newer boards have surface mount stuff that is much harder to replace, so it's easier on these old ones, they're more fun to work on too! Thank you for watching Andy glad you found us!
Yup. They DID make them different colors but you know how that goes :) Some of them had the colors backwards. There have been games from the factory with the plugs reversed, the white needs to plug into the black and the black into the white on those games. Craziness. Thank you for watching Chris!
Takes me back to my days in my digital circuits classes in college. Almost made me want to break out a resistor color-band guide. I'm surprised you can still get all those 7404s, 555s and what not.
Magic smoke makes people exited. My biggest puff of smoke came from a serial terminal driver/buffer chip that was inserted backwards by mistake (meaning, reversed polarity). The system was powered from a dual 5V@200A supply. Blew a hole clean through the chip, instantly filling the room with white smoke. Luckily, neglible damage to the socket, no damage to board or other parts of the system. Plugged in new chip, this time in right orientation and all was good again.
I worked on a System 3 once (I realize this is a Sys 7), what a complete pain. Battery acid damage, connectors, bad chips...then display problems (toss in counterfeit display chips too). The problems never ended, finally sold it as a project. Wasn't a very good title anyways. Promised myself to never buy a Sys 3 again. On the plus side, I bought a desoldering station while working on it!
I was more of a video game guy, but there was a big splash about this game because it had so much digital "boost". There was talk of video games killing pinball, but the same magic that created the video games was also boosting the pinball industry into "modern times", and Black Knight was leading the charge with all the digital trickery with lighting, magna-save, multi-ball play, voice, etc, that made it a pretty exciting game. It's one of the few pinball games I really got into (Star Trek:TNG was the other).
Great video Ronnie, You said it glad you had all those chips in stock, better order more for next time. I hope when get it running you get a lot of playing out of it for testing purpose only. See you on the next video.
Ron, surprised you don’t have a bench top power supply. It’ll make testing boards much easier. You must have a back ache from bending over reaching into the back of the cabinet. Now before you say their to expensive, pick up a old pc power supply. There cheap and work just fine to power up these boards. I built two, I’ll send you one if you want it.
I have a bench power supply and a breadboard. Next time I have some through hole chips that I'm not sure which one is bad, I can use my breadboard to test it!
I saw a grey ribbon cable... you know, with red on one edge for pin 1? Now I learned that's not always pin 1 the hard way!! One end was keyed and the other had the tiny arrow on the connector line up with pin one... but not the red pin!! It was powering and providing data to a small 2 line LCD display, which didn't turn on. I touched the control chip and burnt myself. Somehow it still works.
Can't wait for the next one, yet another great video guys. Thanks for taking the time to video the repairs. I'm fairly new to the channel and found you by searching for Jukebox repairs. Now can't stop watching. I've binged watched most of you play lists and I'm hooked. Also, I've been doing the Amazon link, hope it work as I'm in the UK. All the best and Thanks again.
I ended up burning up an LED once. My friend loved messing with electronics and he gave me a single LED to fool around with (we were in like 1st or 2nd grade at the time) and I made the extremely dumb decision of trying to connect the LED to a 9v battery. Of course, this was way beyond its voltage limit and it lit up briefly then my room smelt highly of melting plastic (a smell I now associate with danger). It didn’t work ever again surprisingly. Hate when electronics burn up. It happens though. Always cool to see another pinball repair video. I love electronics (and now know not to burn them). Cool video!
I definitely did the black/white connector swap right after setting up my Gorgar. That was a difficult lesson to learn right out of the gate. Luckily not too much got fried, but I still had to do a lot of board work diagnosing the issues it created. Even worse was this was a "broken" game which I got for a good deal, so who knows how bad it was even before I swapped the connectors.
@@KANahas Well sure...but we're talking after market mods anyways like chip sockets and pin headers. Keyed molex connectors seem a natural progression.
A very basic ground question please. so when you test a volt on a board the red lead goes on test point say 5 and the other test point goes to test point say 3 or on the meatal. If you use the meatal back glass as ground at some point that voltage has to loop back up to the return wire on the socket? Is that correct? I mean I thought electricity had to loop. thanks .
When you're measuring voltage, yes like you said the red lead goes on whatever the positive voltage is, and black goes on ground, in many games lots of things are grounded, which just means a lot of the metal is connected together. So on some games for instance, the door is grounded, the legs are even grounded, the side rails are grounded, the boards are all grounded, etc. So there is a ground test point on the power supply (which is where the DC ground originates) but anything that is touching that grounded metal part of the power supply is also ground. So if the power supply is screwed to the back box, the ground trace on the board is probably connected to the screw ,which is connected to the backbox, which may be connected to other things depending on how it's wired. Anywhere that is grounded can be used to check voltage. Thank you for watching Kelo!
I'm subscribed to "Classic Arcade Repairs" too, and between the 2 of you, get a good amount of content. Where Classic Arcade Repairs tends to do a lot of board only repairs for arcade machines, you guys do a much better job of explaining things :) Subscribed to a couple of others as well, but they don't post content nearly as often.
That is factory installed smoke. If you hold a baby jar above it you can catch it. Then quickly put the cap on. I know a guy who can put the smoke back in and then everything will be fine.
Looking for recommendations on where to get the circuit breakers you talked about in one of your videos. The ones that have the blown fuse soldered to the bottom of them. Can you recommend a place?
I don't know of any place that sells them in particular, Bob Roberts used to sell them but he's retired... I had somebody mail me some though awhile back. Not sure where to buy them though, sorry!
@David McGill That's not needed on old boards like this with simple DIP chips. Thermal cameras are super expensive and only useful for very complicated modern PCBs that have many hundreds of components. Feeling for hot chips with a finger does just fine and it's free.....
Another sign a monitor is failing is arcing. I've seen that before. If the flyback is messed up and the insulation is shoddy, you may get arcing. That is why the insulation there tends to be thick.
Looks like the memory protect signal forces a battery backed RAM into read only mode. Presumably that stores high scores and what not. Not really sure why it matters that it is write protected when the door is open unless that precedes power down?
I believe what they were doing, is making it so that you couldn't get into the test menu without opening the door, some sort of weird security system.....
@@LyonsArcade maybe, if it needs to write some value and read it back out (or not be able to do that). But the signal itself doesn't go anywhere else and isn't directly readable.
Sometimes good chips go bad like dominoes falling due to a short caused by a bad chip. I fixed an old Taito Space Invaders L-board a couple of weeks ago and it had 2x 74LS241 chips burning hot. I replaced them but that didn't fix it so I went over the board and dozens of chips were bad. After 3/4 of them were replaced in sockets I asked the owner if he wanted me to socket the remaining chips and he said yes so I did. So this Space Invaders has all the chips in sockets now hehe! At least next time it will be easy to swap out the chips one by one and fix it easily and the owner can do it so I don't have to deal with it again :-)
That sounds more like either the voltage regulator failed shorted in the past, then someone replaced the VR but the mobo still didn't work, or there was a big power surge, or somebody accidentally crossed 2 voltages: Like 12V to 5V for example.
@@dickcheney6 No. I just repaired this PCB. It was sitting inside an arcade cab working. No one touched it. Old arcade games just do that and it's normal. One day it works, the next day it doesn't.
Those 'cheap' IC sockets cause lots of intermittent faults. My rule is to replace them for quality turned pin sockets, and it generally cures all those illusive intermittent faults.
Did you know I often get people leaving me comments telling me to never use turned pin sockets? I get others saying to only use turned pin sockets. Thank you for watching kay110!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks for the reply Joe. I found the cheap sockets loose tension in the socket pins - so much so, that a few years ago, I had one PCB with an EPROM that was so loose you could pull it out with your fingers. The gold turned pin sockets don't tarnish either. Good luck with future repairs and I've been enjoying your videos.
I have a 1980 Blackout that I got and I accidentally connected those two plugs wrong. Im afraid I am going to be in trouble… currently waiting on some big 27ohm resisters to arrive for the driver board. Then troubleshooting
When the board is in "audit mode" because no battery is installed, Why do you have to reset the game a second time? I just confused what is "audit mode" when you put the pinball game in audit mode. When the CPU game board is first turned on its checking all the others boards and if the one or more chips is bad the CPU game board will "lock up". I'm not understanding if you don't have the "test rom chip" the normal ROM chip will have a built in BIOS test that will check the PIA chips, RAM chips, Lamp test, displays, coils drivers, etc and if anyone one or more is shorted or bad its will "lock up" the CPU game board?
if you turn it off and then right back on fast, the 5 volts hasn't drained out of the capacitors so the game thinks it has the batteries installed and boots to gameplay mode.... you are correct, the board will lock up if the rom can't speak to all of the chips it's checking, it's exactly like you said. The test rom helps you figure out which chips aren't working properly... Thank you for watching Wayne as always, I know you watch all the videos, thank you!
I didn't do one because the legs were the wrong size and the game was tilted so much you couldn't hardly hit the ball up the playfield! Here's gameplay from the last Gunsmoke we had in though, same game! - th-cam.com/video/v8jDsxHipzk/w-d-xo.html
It's ok.. The owner didn't change the legs? Mind blown? Why. It's all good. But BLACK KNIGHT.. is a totally different story.. Please show gameplay video.. Personally one of my favorite solid State games. Next to F14 TOMCAT. And I could tell you how to cheat on the upper play field using the left flipper.. using physics against itself.. Sorry Steve the king of flow.. You left a loophole in your design.. Just hit the ball on the upper play field and lock it in. And the next ball kicks out hit it at the right time and lock it in then the next ball kicks out then lock that in. Then you achieve multi-ball! Honestly you need to figure out the rhythm.. The left flipper on the upper play field is your friend. And Ally. Using physics against itself.
And I seen you do it on a 14 tomcat.. Really Steve Ritchie always go with the left flipper.. with a flow. That's his Achilles heel. Once you start playing Black Knight you'll see it in the upper plate field.
He put new legs on it, but he ordered them himself.... thank you for the explanation of how you play and how you think I should play see you on the next one
Inverter gate (7404) is essentially a pair of mosfets, one pulling up and other pulling down the output with both gates tied together into one input. It is more possible that one of the mosfets is shorted from gate to Vdd, having a 1/4W resistor short with 5V is really rare, these are rated to 250V. CD4069 is pin compatible._
Is it possible to show more repairs on arcade machines rather than pin ball all the time, I'm guessing that's the bulk of your repair orders so understand but would be nice to see more space invaders/galaxian/moon cresta ETC
We have more arcade repairs coming but we film many more pinball repairs, because they take longer. So we'll spend two weeks fixing a pinball machine but only spend 5 hours fixing an arcade game... so we end up with more pinball videos just because they're more broken than the arcade games :) Thanks for watching Wayne!
If it was plugged into 240VAC while setup for 120VAC the transformer would most likely have gone up in smoke. So unless there are signs of transformer damage or a transformer replacement it's unlikely that happened.
On the resistor values; The colored rings tell you the value. On a three-band, this one is yellow (4), purple(7), red(x100) = 4,700 with a 20% tolerance error.
The black/white plugs being plugged in wrong on my jungle lord, it was a mess and took some time to sort too, what a stupid setup having two of the same connector.
Yeah the guy that did this one said he probably did it and apologized, I told him man it's a lot easier to do than you think, even if they're color coded right there's a really high chance somebody at some point is going to plug them in backwards.
@@LyonsArcade my plugs are all white, when I bought it 8 years ago it was my first pin and was told the classic”probably needs a fuse” jumped in both feet!
Do you have, or have access to a FLIR camera? It would be extremely helpful in your business, easily locating warm circuits & components of analog design. You can also get a much cheaper version, that simply plugs into your Smartphone. A FLIR ONE GEN 3 is $200, then they quickly start increasing in price for higher resolutions. I'd think the basic would work for you. Probably find cheaper if "used" or "refurbished". Lots of computer repair shops and auto mechanics use them, too.
Funny how these old boards have no input protection… no optoisolators, no shunt diodes. They’re just vulnerable to whatever comes into the chip from off the board. That 47K/4.7K? pull-up resistor would never be hurt by being shorted 5V to ground. In fact, it’s shorted every time you close the switch on the door. Resistors never short (except wirewound), they burn and open when too much current passes through them.
The whole point of what I was saying is that they didn't send 5 volts to the resistor they sent the solenoid voltage to it, 50 volts or whatever it was when they reversed the plugs.... So it then had 5 volts on one side and 50 on the other side, I was just checking to see if that damaged anything but i'll take your word for it I shouldn't have checked it because it never would have been hurt
Have you ever heard the long version of that song? It's so great, the guy's yelling 'I"M ON FIRRREEEE!!!" great song. The lead singer lived in Rock Hill where we are and passed away a few years ago here locally, what a band!
@@LyonsArcade Amazing song! We saw your Brother Donnie’s music video... you ain’t holding out on us with the three brothers in matching outfits singing now, are you?
Pull up resistors for 5v are almost always somewhere between 1k and 10k, so I'd say 4.7k is what that one should be (not 47k -- that has to be a typo).
A lot of bonehead repairs... I just started working on a Kings of steel playfield and whoever had it last had one flipper coil backplate held on with a 1 1/2" screw embedded in the playfield. Guess they couldnt find the 1/4" oem screws
@@Roadsurfer2k11 When you're buying a pinball machine that's used (but obviously "new to you") ONLY buy from someone who will show you the inside! It's okay if he doesn't want you to touch the inside but he/she should open it FOR YOU so you can see the wiring and boards, so that you know what you're getting into. This applies even if you're buying a non-working machine to fix.
@@dickcheney6 I agree.. I pulled out of a deal 2 months ago for a $950 Cybernaut. Really disappointed after a 5 hour round trip drive to find the machine in horrible condition than what pictures showed. Evidently seller got it free unworking from "alleged relative that paid $500 for it at a yard sale". He had a lot more going on like bad mpu board, no displays and no sound whereas his sales description said ball not ejecting and thats it. The side lock was punched in with a hammer too. He was thrilled I was testing stuff with a meter and knew what to look for lol. He did have good power going to driver board tho. With the KoS the screw job (and another I fixed with broken off inside backplate but wasn't replaced) isn't bad.. just lazy on whomever had it 25 years ago. It sat 21 years untouched before I'm learning about it entirely
It's always annoying when machines ignore the "No Smoking" sign. With everything that's dead, it leaves you to wonder if it was damaged in a power surge, maybe due to a nearby lightning strike.
4.7K would be correct. It's simple to drop a decimal point on prints...it's usually why you send them through a checker. I guess they didn't back then, or the checker also missed it.
yeah to speak to that.... A print shop would shoot a negative of the original to burn a plate. Chances are the printer saw it as a spec of dust and opaqued it out.
You mentioned this guy was in the US Military, UK? Would being ran with really nasty, dirty barracks generator power do damage like this? What if it was set for 110v AC then got plugged into UK 230v AC? Geez, Louis! You basically rebuilt that board.
It’s official the chip and circuit board “shortages” can be fixed by Lyons arcade never a good feeling watching magic smoke come out of a machine that is not yours
@@LyonsArcade Love your videos. Pulled a Ms. Pac-Man from the trash and resurrected it years ago. High voltage caps in the video side dried up. Like a DA I traded it for something and seriously wish I had that game today. I have a Hollywood Heat pinball machine that’s giving me some issues. I did the ground MODs years ago and it seems like they giving me troubles again.
We gave him a good deal on labor since we were able to film this cool video out of it.... and it's more fun to fix than to replace! Thank you for watching Patrick!
I'm sure this customer will appreciate all the work you're doing to get the game's Black Knight back on his horse after he rode through fire and blew chips.
Thank you Ray!
Ya never let the magic smoke out of the box..... ;)
Ya never let the magic smoke out of the box..... ;)
I love watching these and yelling at my screen "Yes" or "No" as you go through this stuff... (And of course "Damn I was wrong" at times...) Thanks!
hahaha thanks Eric, take care.
Your videos give me nerdgasms. I love it.
Thank you for watching Nunya!
I like how you teach. Most people in electronics repair videos want you to go to electronics school and learn all the technical stuff first before you can understand what they are telling you. The way you teach will give novices the boost they need to get them interested in trying to repair stuff on their own. I see this as a good thing. Electronics can be so overwhelming that most potential future repair men or women will give up way too early. Yes a person should learn the basic terminology so they have a basic understanding of electronics and how things work. No a person doesn’t have to have a 4 year college course to repair a pcb.
I hate the elitist attitude a lot of techs have, even worse a lot of times they won't work on things they feel are beneath them, I think if somebody's willing to work on something that's a good thing even if they make mistakes and don't know what they're doing. Most of the repair is just slowly thinking about what the problem logically is, and working through it the best you can step by step. Thank you for watching Bill!
Great video most people would have given up not Lyons arcade. Thanks for sharing love the videos and appreciate the time you spend making them. Have a great weekend guys.
No problem Mac, thank you for watching as always!
This is a test of patience. Pure and Simple. How many would have given up, and just bought a complete new board? At some point, you are just trying to save face. Brovo Zulu for keeping at it.
We got it Frank! Thank you for watching buddy.
Good morning, hope you’re having nice day today
I am Marinka, hope the same with you! Thanks for joining us!
That is such a beautiful machine!
Regarding the smoke, whilst upgrading _virtual_ pinball machines _(with new toys etc)_ on *two* separate occasions *in front* of *two* separate customers, I've shorted boards - smoke aplenty!
Very embarising when it's your fault *and* having the owners witness it! 😂
Hey the owner is watching this video, I did it on tape permanently :) Thanks for watching as always buddy!
Man I love watching you do this. Reminds me of my earlier career days working on the test bench and figuring out a problem. then when you tried all possibilities and you had no reasoning for the error you just starting to increase the voltage until the problem presented itself. Usually ended up in a bad via or shorted PCB trace on the inner layers. Now that I design circuit boards for a living its fun to see the old PCBs and how they are routed. I'm designing 20+ layer PCBs these days.
Why am I binge-watching video game repair videos?
Because you're Cool
Great video, these old boards have been to hell and back. Good work on trudging through it. I find it much easier to do all this work on a bench, but this works too. Those white sockets are always replaced when I tackle a sys 3-7. Thanks for the process.
Thank you for watching Charlie!
Well, if we didn't know it by now, this video would be definitive proof that you really love your work! Most of us would probably just say "screw it" and start scavenging for a replacement board by the half of the video!
Thank you Fernando that's very nice of you to say, see you on the next video buddy!
Truly appreciate the videos, knowledge and entertainment! Thank you for your videos! Saving these beautiful machines!
Thank you for watching Mike, we appreciate you hanging out with us!
I attended a Military School in Missouri (Wentworth) and our rival school had a rifle spinning stunt performer named the Black Knight who beat us every time we competed. The guy who installed arcade games in the Wentworth snack-bar told us he had a brand new modern pinball machine coming with the then new digital scoreboard and synthesized sounds.
The entire school and staff all went nuts when he brought in this Black Night pinball machine. LOL It was crazy!
You guys are amazing!!! I'm a technician for Toshiba. We just troubleshoot to the PCB and replaced the whole thing. Just to watch you guys do this is mind blowing. I'm new to the channel and just wanted to tell you guys thanks for the advance learning. Cheers!!!
It's changed a lot over the years, the newer boards have surface mount stuff that is much harder to replace, so it's easier on these old ones, they're more fun to work on too! Thank you for watching Andy glad you found us!
I love how you don't know but you do know and you don't give up you just keep on going on till you fix it keep up the good work
Thank you Stewart, you understand. See you on the next video!
All this mayhem could have been fixed by the addition of a small notch on the connector, glad you got it figured out!
Yup. They DID make them different colors but you know how that goes :) Some of them had the colors backwards. There have been games from the factory with the plugs reversed, the white needs to plug into the black and the black into the white on those games. Craziness. Thank you for watching Chris!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks for sharing Ron, I've learned a bunch from this channel.
Takes me back to my days in my digital circuits classes in college. Almost made me want to break out a resistor color-band guide. I'm surprised you can still get all those 7404s, 555s and what not.
Mnemonic for resistor codes: Bad Boys R*pe Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Grey White.
@@andrewthecelt3794 I think you might need a visit from HR for remembering that mnemonic. ;)
They seem to still make most of those really common ones... thank you for watching pliskenmovie!
@@pliskenmovie I'm old enough to not be concerned by PC policing.
It doesn't imply endorsement. 😆
Smooooke on the MoBo, fire in the back-box! 🎵🎵🎵🎵
hahaha thanks Bruce!
Funky Claude was probing in and out, pulling chips outta the ground... 🎶
Magic smoke makes people exited. My biggest puff of smoke came from a serial terminal driver/buffer chip that was inserted backwards by mistake (meaning, reversed polarity). The system was powered from a dual 5V@200A supply. Blew a hole clean through the chip, instantly filling the room with white smoke. Luckily, neglible damage to the socket, no damage to board or other parts of the system. Plugged in new chip, this time in right orientation and all was good again.
Very cool, i've accidentally done that before but it was low amperage stuff so nothing smoked.... thank you for watching SeersantLoom!
This acts like it had a power surge. Like being plug into 220 while still being set up for 110. Great Job Ron. Love the SMOKE.
Thanks for watching Hopper!
If it came from Wales that smoke would be dragon breath.
Hahaha or cigar smoke! Thank you for watching Nivag as always!
I worked on a System 3 once (I realize this is a Sys 7), what a complete pain. Battery acid damage, connectors, bad chips...then display problems (toss in counterfeit display chips too). The problems never ended, finally sold it as a project. Wasn't a very good title anyways. Promised myself to never buy a Sys 3 again.
On the plus side, I bought a desoldering station while working on it!
They do have their quirks! We don't mind working on them you just have to know going in you have to mess with everything! Thanks for watching, Mark!
Great videos here Joe and company. You and John's arcade are the best on TH-cam for this kind of thing.
Thank you Gerard that's nice of you to say!
I was more of a video game guy, but there was a big splash about this game because it had so much digital "boost". There was talk of video games killing pinball, but the same magic that created the video games was also boosting the pinball industry into "modern times", and Black Knight was leading the charge with all the digital trickery with lighting, magna-save, multi-ball play, voice, etc, that made it a pretty exciting game. It's one of the few pinball games I really got into (Star Trek:TNG was the other).
It's a pretty sweet game, thank you for watching John!
well Williams did make a fire pinball machine
That's a good point, ha Thanks for watching Douglas!
Yep, As the old repairer's saying. "If you see smoke, you know it's broke" :)
ha, i'm gonna steal that one :) Thanks for watching Midnite Pagan!
@@LyonsArcade No worries mate. Have a great evening :)
I wish I knew 1/2 the stuff you do 👍👍
I don't know much, just read the comments :) Thanks for watching (again) Bill!
Great video Ronnie, You said it glad you had all those chips in stock, better order more for next time. I hope when get it running you get a lot of playing out of it for testing purpose only. See you on the next video.
We try to keep all the useful ones in we still get caught short handed from time to time though :) Thank you for watching as always Frank!
Love the progress! Awesome channel. Thank you
Thank you Level!
Ron, surprised you don’t have a bench top power supply. It’ll make testing boards much easier. You must have a back ache from bending over reaching into the back of the cabinet. Now before you say their to expensive, pick up a old pc power supply. There cheap and work just fine to power up these boards. I built two, I’ll send you one if you want it.
I've got one but I don't mind using the cabinet to test them in, thank you though! See you on the next video!
I have a bench power supply and a breadboard. Next time I have some through hole chips that I'm not sure which one is bad, I can use my breadboard to test it!
I saw a grey ribbon cable... you know, with red on one edge for pin 1? Now I learned that's not always pin 1 the hard way!! One end was keyed and the other had the tiny arrow on the connector line up with pin one... but not the red pin!! It was powering and providing data to a small 2 line LCD display, which didn't turn on. I touched the control chip and burnt myself. Somehow it still works.
Yeah I wish they made those harder to plug in wrong! Glad it didn’t fry it….
Can't wait for the next one, yet another great video guys. Thanks for taking the time to video the repairs. I'm fairly new to the channel and found you by searching for Jukebox repairs. Now can't stop watching. I've binged watched most of you play lists and I'm hooked. Also, I've been doing the Amazon link, hope it work as I'm in the UK. All the best and Thanks again.
Thank you Gary, I have seen the UK pick up a little bit on there I appreciate that man! See you on the next video, glad you enjoyed it!
I ended up burning up an LED once. My friend loved messing with electronics and he gave me a single LED to fool around with (we were in like 1st or 2nd grade at the time) and I made the extremely dumb decision of trying to connect the LED to a 9v battery. Of course, this was way beyond its voltage limit and it lit up briefly then my room smelt highly of melting plastic (a smell I now associate with danger). It didn’t work ever again surprisingly. Hate when electronics burn up. It happens though. Always cool to see another pinball repair video. I love electronics (and now know not to burn them). Cool video!
Thank you BA Elevator!
Hi Ron! Are you able to create or perhaps point me to a desoldering video?
Love your work you keep me inspired to push on with my restorations.
I definitely did the black/white connector swap right after setting up my Gorgar. That was a difficult lesson to learn right out of the gate. Luckily not too much got fried, but I still had to do a lot of board work diagnosing the issues it created. Even worse was this was a "broken" game which I got for a good deal, so who knows how bad it was even before I swapped the connectors.
It happens to the best of us Kyle, don't feel too bad, i've fried stuff! Thanks for watching!
Indeed...could you not replace those identical connectors for something keyed so it never happens again?
@@pliskenmovie At the very least Williams should’ve put something similar to the pin plugs on the Molex KK connectors they use everywhere.
@@KANahas Well sure...but we're talking after market mods anyways like chip sockets and pin headers. Keyed molex connectors seem a natural progression.
Really enjoyed the video as always 👍
Thank you Matty, we appreciate you checking it out!
A very basic ground question please. so when you test a volt on a board the red lead goes on test point say 5 and the other test point goes to test point say 3 or on the meatal. If you use the meatal back glass as ground at some point that voltage has to loop back up to the return wire on the socket? Is that correct? I mean I thought electricity had to loop. thanks .
When you're measuring voltage, yes like you said the red lead goes on whatever the positive voltage is, and black goes on ground, in many games lots of things are grounded, which just means a lot of the metal is connected together. So on some games for instance, the door is grounded, the legs are even grounded, the side rails are grounded, the boards are all grounded, etc. So there is a ground test point on the power supply (which is where the DC ground originates) but anything that is touching that grounded metal part of the power supply is also ground. So if the power supply is screwed to the back box, the ground trace on the board is probably connected to the screw ,which is connected to the backbox, which may be connected to other things depending on how it's wired. Anywhere that is grounded can be used to check voltage. Thank you for watching Kelo!
excellent work as usual
Thank you Brian, we appreciate it man!
Also check the level version. Might be a update available.
They didn't release many updates for the older ones, they worked out all the kinks before they shipped them usually. Thanks for watching DrJman!
I'm subscribed to "Classic Arcade Repairs" too, and between the 2 of you, get a good amount of content. Where Classic Arcade Repairs tends to do a lot of board only repairs for arcade machines, you guys do a much better job of explaining things :)
Subscribed to a couple of others as well, but they don't post content nearly as often.
Thank you Ray that's very nice of you to say, we appreciate you hanging out and watching with us!
That is factory installed smoke. If you hold a baby jar above it you can catch it. Then quickly put the cap on. I know a guy who can put the smoke back in and then everything will be fine.
Looking for recommendations on where to get the circuit breakers you talked about in one of your videos. The ones that have the blown fuse soldered to the bottom of them. Can you recommend a place?
I don't know of any place that sells them in particular, Bob Roberts used to sell them but he's retired... I had somebody mail me some though awhile back. Not sure where to buy them though, sorry!
@@LyonsArcade thanks for responding. I found some, just wanted to make sure you didn't have a better place to get them
never played this one.. Black Knight 2000 was one of my fav though.
If you have the budget for it, a thermal camera would help spot chips trying to ignite.
CAT smartphones have a FLIR thermal camera inside, they are kinda affordable. And heavensent for HVAC / electronics guys :)
I may have to do that some time... thank you David!
@David McGill That's not needed on old boards like this with simple DIP chips. Thermal cameras are super expensive and only useful for very complicated modern PCBs that have many hundreds of components. Feeling for hot chips with a finger does just fine and it's free.....
That's the trouble with the smoke. Once you let out the smoke it's a bugger to try get it back in!!
Ain't that the truth!
How many time have set the games on fire?
Multiple!
Another sign a monitor is failing is arcing. I've seen that before. If the flyback is messed up and the insulation is shoddy, you may get arcing. That is why the insulation there tends to be thick.
Looks like the memory protect signal forces a battery backed RAM into read only mode. Presumably that stores high scores and what not. Not really sure why it matters that it is write protected when the door is open unless that precedes power down?
I believe what they were doing, is making it so that you couldn't get into the test menu without opening the door, some sort of weird security system.....
@@LyonsArcade maybe, if it needs to write some value and read it back out (or not be able to do that). But the signal itself doesn't go anywhere else and isn't directly readable.
What would have been the cost of a working used board?
I think they may be $150 but what's the fun of that?
I'm surprised you haven't changed the Big Blue one.
That particular one is on the lamps so doesn't really hurt anything if it's not 100%....
Sometimes good chips go bad like dominoes falling due to a short caused by a bad chip. I fixed an old Taito Space Invaders L-board a couple of weeks ago and it had 2x 74LS241 chips burning hot. I replaced them but that didn't fix it so I went over the board and dozens of chips were bad. After 3/4 of them were replaced in sockets I asked the owner if he wanted me to socket the remaining chips and he said yes so I did. So this Space Invaders has all the chips in sockets now hehe! At least next time it will be easy to swap out the chips one by one and fix it easily and the owner can do it so I don't have to deal with it again :-)
That's a lot of soldering work! Thank you for watching!
That sounds more like either the voltage regulator failed shorted in the past, then someone replaced the VR but the mobo still didn't work, or there was a big power surge, or somebody accidentally crossed 2 voltages: Like 12V to 5V for example.
@@dickcheney6 No. I just repaired this PCB. It was sitting inside an arcade cab working. No one touched it. Old arcade games just do that and it's normal. One day it works, the next day it doesn't.
4.7K and 10K are two common pull-up resistor values. Even commonly used today with 3.3V logic as well as 5V logic
Thank you Brendan, I kind of understand how they work, mainly because I keep seeing them on everything :) See you on the next one man!
Awesome game still
It sure is! See you on the next video!
"This game is on fire!" "Yeah, it is pretty neat.." "No, I mean literally.."
hahaha Thanks vulpis :)
"oh cool, it's a smoke effect!"
- "you mean, a smoke effect INSIDE the back panel???"
"oh, erm ye, maybe not"
At least he doesn't have to engage in any awkward gymnastics like the_Chieftain does when he videos his "Oh, bugger... The tank is on fire!" segments.
Q¹1 po y
I've seen other people use a FLIR IR camera to see the hot ICs (failing but not smoking).
I think that could work... thank you for watching djmips!
Where do you source your chips from?
Ebay
First!!! :)) 45 min of Joy thank you lads.
Thank you for watching, Peter!
Those 'cheap' IC sockets cause lots of intermittent faults. My rule is to replace them for quality turned pin sockets, and it generally cures all those illusive intermittent faults.
Did you know I often get people leaving me comments telling me to never use turned pin sockets? I get others saying to only use turned pin sockets. Thank you for watching kay110!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks for the reply Joe. I found the cheap sockets loose tension in the socket pins - so much so, that a few years ago, I had one PCB with an EPROM that was so loose you could pull it out with your fingers. The gold turned pin sockets don't tarnish either. Good luck with future repairs and I've been enjoying your videos.
I have a 1980 Blackout that I got and I accidentally connected those two plugs wrong. Im afraid I am going to be in trouble… currently waiting on some big 27ohm resisters to arrive for the driver board. Then troubleshooting
When the board is in "audit mode" because no battery is installed, Why do you have to reset the game a second time? I just confused what is "audit mode" when you put the pinball game in audit mode. When the CPU game board is first turned on its checking all the others boards and if the one or more chips is bad the CPU game board will "lock up". I'm not understanding if you don't have the "test rom chip" the normal ROM chip will have a built in BIOS test that will check the PIA chips, RAM chips, Lamp test, displays, coils drivers, etc and if anyone one or more is shorted or bad its will "lock up" the CPU game board?
if you turn it off and then right back on fast, the 5 volts hasn't drained out of the capacitors so the game thinks it has the batteries installed and boots to gameplay mode.... you are correct, the board will lock up if the rom can't speak to all of the chips it's checking, it's exactly like you said. The test rom helps you figure out which chips aren't working properly... Thank you for watching Wayne as always, I know you watch all the videos, thank you!
Did you do a gameplay on the last EM Pinball machine that you was working on?
Not sure if I missed it or not.
I didn't do one because the legs were the wrong size and the game was tilted so much you couldn't hardly hit the ball up the playfield! Here's gameplay from the last Gunsmoke we had in though, same game! - th-cam.com/video/v8jDsxHipzk/w-d-xo.html
It's ok..
The owner didn't change the legs?
Mind blown?
Why.
It's all good.
But BLACK KNIGHT.. is a totally different story..
Please show gameplay video..
Personally one of my favorite solid State games. Next to F14 TOMCAT.
And I could tell you how to cheat on the upper play field using the left flipper.. using physics against itself..
Sorry Steve the king of flow..
You left a loophole in your design..
Just hit the ball on the upper play field and lock it in. And the next ball kicks out hit it at the right time and lock it in then the next ball kicks out then lock that in.
Then you achieve multi-ball!
Honestly you need to figure out the rhythm..
The left flipper on the upper play field is your friend. And Ally.
Using physics against itself.
And I seen you do it on a 14 tomcat..
Really Steve Ritchie always go with the left flipper.. with a flow.
That's his Achilles heel.
Once you start playing Black Knight you'll see it in the upper plate field.
He put new legs on it, but he ordered them himself.... thank you for the explanation of how you play and how you think I should play see you on the next one
It's just a suggestion.. the left flipper is your ally.
In owning the flow..
Inverter gate (7404) is essentially a pair of mosfets, one pulling up and other pulling down the output with both gates tied together into one input. It is more possible that one of the mosfets is shorted from gate to Vdd, having a 1/4W resistor short with 5V is really rare, these are rated to 250V. CD4069 is pin compatible._
Thank you DjResR!
7404 is a logic inverter.
Thank you fwddodge22!
Is it possible to show more repairs on arcade machines rather than pin ball all the time, I'm guessing that's the bulk of your repair orders so understand but would be nice to see more space invaders/galaxian/moon cresta ETC
We have more arcade repairs coming but we film many more pinball repairs, because they take longer. So we'll spend two weeks fixing a pinball machine but only spend 5 hours fixing an arcade game... so we end up with more pinball videos just because they're more broken than the arcade games :) Thanks for watching Wayne!
@@LyonsArcade thankyou for getting back to me, thanks makes perfect sense
Maybe it was plugged into 240VAC while still on the 120VAC taps.
That is possible, i'm not sure of the complete history of it! Thank you for watching Mike!
If it was plugged into 240VAC while setup for 120VAC the transformer would most likely have gone up in smoke. So unless there are signs of transformer damage or a transformer replacement it's unlikely that happened.
On the resistor values; The colored rings tell you the value. On a three-band, this one is yellow (4), purple(7), red(x100) = 4,700 with a 20% tolerance error.
No shit
@@LyonsArcade Yes I figured you know. But I was addressing anyone who doesn't know.
The black/white plugs being plugged in wrong on my jungle lord, it was a mess and took some time to sort too, what a stupid setup having two of the same connector.
Yeah the guy that did this one said he probably did it and apologized, I told him man it's a lot easier to do than you think, even if they're color coded right there's a really high chance somebody at some point is going to plug them in backwards.
@@LyonsArcade my plugs are all white, when I bought it 8 years ago it was my first pin and was told the classic”probably needs a fuse” jumped in both feet!
but the play field is in GREAT shape!
It really is in very nice shape!
Good god that board sounded like a headache to work on Lol
We figured it out, eventually! Thanks Austin!
Do you have, or have access to a FLIR camera?
It would be extremely helpful in your business, easily
locating warm circuits & components of analog design.
You can also get a much cheaper version, that simply plugs
into your Smartphone. A FLIR ONE GEN 3 is $200, then they
quickly start increasing in price for higher resolutions. I'd
think the basic would work for you. Probably find cheaper
if "used" or "refurbished". Lots of computer repair shops
and auto mechanics use them, too.
No I don't have one
Oh shit. You let the smoke out. Everyone knows these things run on smoke and if you let the smoke out, that’s all she wrote.
Until you fix it!
@@LyonsArcade which you did!
If you have to smoke ICs... a 7404 is not a bad choice...
haha I wonder if they have different flavors as they get more exotic ?
Customer: Please Fix my Black Knight pinball machine Joe: Give me your money!
Yeah lets turn it on again and see more smoke.
I had to document it!
I feel like I’m being set up. N.C. stands for normally closed, right? N.O. is normally open, in the diagram. “Microfarad”
Funny how these old boards have no input protection… no optoisolators, no shunt diodes. They’re just vulnerable to whatever comes into the chip from off the board.
That 47K/4.7K? pull-up resistor would never be hurt by being shorted 5V to ground. In fact, it’s shorted every time you close the switch on the door.
Resistors never short (except wirewound), they burn and open when too much current passes through them.
The whole point of what I was saying is that they didn't send 5 volts to the resistor they sent the solenoid voltage to it, 50 volts or whatever it was when they reversed the plugs.... So it then had 5 volts on one side and 50 on the other side, I was just checking to see if that damaged anything but i'll take your word for it I shouldn't have checked it because it never would have been hurt
Burn baby burn... pinball inferno!
Have you ever heard the long version of that song? It's so great, the guy's yelling 'I"M ON FIRRREEEE!!!" great song. The lead singer lived in Rock Hill where we are and passed away a few years ago here locally, what a band!
@@LyonsArcade Amazing song!
We saw your Brother Donnie’s music video... you ain’t holding out on us with the three brothers in matching outfits singing now, are you?
Pull up resistors for 5v are almost always somewhere between 1k and 10k, so I'd say 4.7k is what that one should be (not 47k -- that has to be a typo).
Quick put the smoke back in
Unfortunately there's no good way to do that yet :) Thanks for watching Jesse
Whoever did the solder job on the 5101 should be ashamed.
We put a nice socket in it no more problems :) Thanks for watching Rock
A lot of bonehead repairs... I just started working on a Kings of steel playfield and whoever had it last had one flipper coil backplate held on with a 1 1/2" screw embedded in the playfield. Guess they couldnt find the 1/4" oem screws
@@Roadsurfer2k11 When you're buying a pinball machine that's used (but obviously "new to you") ONLY buy from someone who will show you the inside! It's okay if he doesn't want you to touch the inside but he/she should open it FOR YOU so you can see the wiring and boards, so that you know what you're getting into. This applies even if you're buying a non-working machine to fix.
@@dickcheney6 I agree.. I pulled out of a deal 2 months ago for a $950 Cybernaut. Really disappointed after a 5 hour round trip drive to find the machine in horrible condition than what pictures showed. Evidently seller got it free unworking from "alleged relative that paid $500 for it at a yard sale". He had a lot more going on like bad mpu board, no displays and no sound whereas his sales description said ball not ejecting and thats it. The side lock was punched in with a hammer too. He was thrilled I was testing stuff with a meter and knew what to look for lol. He did have good power going to driver board tho.
With the KoS the screw job (and another I fixed with broken off inside backplate but wasn't replaced) isn't bad.. just lazy on whomever had it 25 years ago. It sat 21 years untouched before I'm learning about it entirely
Smoke... that can’t be good. To use an old addage, “Say it ain’t so...” ;)
It had a few issues :)
It's always annoying when machines ignore the "No Smoking" sign.
With everything that's dead, it leaves you to wonder if it was damaged in a power surge, maybe due to a nearby lightning strike.
They ran 50 volts through the board when they swapped the connectors around I think...
That 7404 has been killed by ESD, a single pin short to ground or vcc can't kill a ttl.
o.k. Thank you for watching birre!
@@LyonsArcade For a long time it was my dream to own a flipper game, the old one with only relays.
Keep them alive to preserve the history.
I always thought ESD only affected CMOS and not TTL.
*@**14:43*
The Rooster
Big Rooster Daddy
4.7K would be correct. It's simple to drop a decimal point on prints...it's usually why you send them through a checker. I guess they didn't back then, or the checker also missed it.
Early 80's = LOTS OF DRUGS Thanks for watching WreckDiver99!
yeah to speak to that.... A print shop would shoot a negative of the original to burn a plate. Chances are the printer saw it as a spec of dust and opaqued it out.
There must be a dot a dot missing on resistor 14 of the schematic meaning its 4700 ohms not 47000 ohms.
I believe so!
RIP Leon
Somebody must of used a smoke machine board lol.
I don't know if looks like the right board :) Thanks for watching Mac!
You mentioned this guy was in the US Military, UK?
Would being ran with really nasty, dirty barracks generator power
do damage like this? What if it was set for 110v AC then got plugged
into UK 230v AC? Geez, Louis! You basically rebuilt that board.
Might have been what happened, thank you for watching!
Elvira!!!!...Elvira!!!..ma pinball's on fire.. Elvira!!!🤣😂
Giddey Up Ba Boom
@@LyonsArcade just saw a target gallery pinball machine on American pickers and immediately thought of you Ron lol 😁
7404 is a logic inverter make a 0 a 1 or makes a 1 a 0
Thank you Jeremy!
Williams didn't have a lock pin on early black knights as vending companies plug connectors in the wrong spot n cooked the board's.
You are wrong if the chip has an internal short yes it will smoke. If the pull up resistor has changed values, the resistor will smoke, not the jet.
+5V to ground. if your like me first time you watched bttf it made no sense Doc would intentionally hit the car with lightning
Yeah at the time I didn't know I thought it made it really fast or something, lol
It’s official the chip and circuit board “shortages” can be fixed by Lyons arcade never a good feeling watching magic smoke come out of a machine that is not yours
I knew it had issues so we weren't afraid :) Thanks for watching John!
Where there's smoke???...Well there's your problem!
Sometimes that's a good way to troubleshoot, you have a problem... let 'er burn up! Thanks for watching Dave!
Resistors typically don’t short due to their internal makeup.
That's true, thank you Nav Vet!
@@LyonsArcade Love your videos. Pulled a Ms. Pac-Man from the trash and resurrected it years ago. High voltage caps in the video side dried up. Like a DA I traded it for something and seriously wish I had that game today. I have a Hollywood Heat pinball machine that’s giving me some issues. I did the ground MODs years ago and it seems like they giving me troubles again.
looks like it would have been cheaper to put in a new board when you figure in your labor...
We gave him a good deal on labor since we were able to film this cool video out of it.... and it's more fun to fix than to replace! Thank you for watching Patrick!
Never seen so many motherfudging issues with one single board.
It was pretty problematic but we got it!