Compass Declination. Why it doesn’t matter explained . Impact On Land Navigation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- Explanation of some ideas of land navigation with a compass , how to apply declination with compass navigation
Declination Web Site:www.magnetic-declination.com/
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the best explanations I've seen yet.
So you put this title “Declination doesn’t matter!” to attract attention to your video and then you rant about what is declination for over an hour?!
Well, I disagree! Declination DOES MATTER! In real life you also get really lost! And you don’t know your location every 500 meters or so! You can’t recheck your location too often in many real life situations!
Then you need to find yourself and if you don’t use declination, you would be horribly wrong and make a big mistake!
Of course, what you are not telling your viewers is that they need real practice and not only watching TH-cam videos! You are making the videos for subscribers and money and not to make others, ( people unknown to you), good navigators!
@@danielculpepper9258 For the UK declination doesn't matter. As here it's .0 of a degree change. Pushing up to 1-2 degree in Scotland. So unless of course you're trying to find a f*ing pebble, it has no real bearing (ba dum tis). The point here is that declination depends on your location in the world. Which is a very valid point as have many comments bellow highlighted. As well as the effect the map has on it. Finally, no one becomes a good navigator from TH-cam videos. Not once did the video say such a thing, calm down.
thank you Very Survival to explain the declination so good. Its really the best explainiton i see on youtube and internet. Helped me out.
It may not matter much, but since it's so easy to compensate for, I can't see any reason to ignore it. Why not aim for precision, and then if you're a little off, so be it, but you won't be as far off as if you ignore declination. It's easy enough to plan a route around poor terrain anyway, and if you are very good at precise land navigation, it's much easier to trust your more complicated pre-planned routing. A lot of the problems you describe come down to poor technique. Aim for perfection! You won't quite get there, but if you at least try you'll get a lot closer in the long run, especially with practice.
fair comment
Yes. The argument, 'it's better to be inaccurate and accept a 260m error when you don't need to' is a little mad.
I see the points in his discussion on declination not being overly concerned with. More concerned about his not training people in the utilization of tools like implimenting back-stops or bearing off, and what to do when someone reaches tbese points.
Where I live, it's 11°E, double your problems. In the bush, you'd be right out if you didn't account
I like this video, I will use it to teach scouts about declination, HOWEVER, in the Northwest USA our declination is 20-22 degrees. If you are ignoring declination here, you will be 1 mile off your line after just 3.2 miles. So know your area that you are hiking.
I agree this is a good video and quite useful for teaching. However, Magnetic North has been moving very fast over the last 10-20 years (earthsky.org/earth/magnetic-north-rapid-drift-blobs-flux) . So for Portland Oregon, declination is now about 15.4°. Here is a link to a NOAA calculator (www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml?useFullSite=true).
I hope that this is useful. I enjoyed scouting too! It taught me a lot about the world and how to figure things out.
I clicked into the comments to make the same point.
Same here in New Zealand
Thank you! This one the only videos I've found that actually explains compass and map nav well.
nice to hear. take care mate
Great channel, by far, FAR, the best source for intellectual real world knowledge. Every hard as nails super serious American military guy I see on TH-cam is trying to explain navigation as an exact science, as if they've never been stationed in a camp and spent years in the wild.
Finally a declination explanation I was able to retain. (They all make sense to a greater or lesser degree, while you’re watching them. The key for me has been difficulty in recalling them once the video stops.)
One of the best explanations I've seen yet. Thank you % Godspeed.
Just subscribed.
Thanks a lot I appreciate the feedback
Excellent video... I have watch three others that got me more confused about declination and this one was my saviour. Thank you, enough info that you understand but not enough that your left wondering what hit you.
Brilliant video! Well done😊 This video helped me a lot‼️ thank you👍
This is by far the best explanation for declination!
Plain, honest talk. Much appreciated.
cheers
I’m getting back into hiking having not used a map and compass in 15 years since I was in the scouts! This video and your channel is super helpful in refreshing my memory on loads of things. Nice one mate!
awesome bro have a great time
Ignore what he says about not bothering with magnetic north. Do that and you could fall over a ravine.
It does matter. People have died 50 feet from shelter. You should therefore always calculate for declination if possible, and try to be as accurate as possible.
Exactly.
There are many reports of this kind but sadly, compass land navigation does not provide that level of accuracy. And you have to take that in consideration. People died 50 feet from shelter because of improper preparation, terrain knowledge and navigating in poor visibility. If you are susceptible to fall in that kind of situation, the best item for land navigation is a GPS.
@@schiaucugabriel6202 Compass Navigation DOES provide you with enough information and accuracy to find the major landmarks, rivers, or roads, mountain peaks, lakes, gullies, unless you are in a blizzard with zero visability, but then as you said, GPS is the best. Compass use in the right hands is fairly reliable and can get you where you need to go, if you understand it and use it right. Databyter
@@schiaucugabriel6202 But if you take a correct magnetic north bearing you CAN navigate in poor visibility. That's the whole point. Doh!
@@cacadores3955 Go take correct magnetic north bearing in poor visibility on the Bucegi plateau where is no landmarks miles around and you are dead. If you get lost in the blizzard there, the magnetic north is as useful as a bicycle to a fish. That"s why people are dead yards away from shelter. Doh!
Perfect! Thanks for your efforts in making this video. Exactly what I needed to make my decision on the compass I’m going to buy.
Thank you for making this. This is the clearest explanation that I’ve seen on the subject.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very informative. Thorough & well explained. Exactly what I needed. Your video has helped me clarify many questions I had. Thank you!
Great
Ive learned how to navigate by watching youtube, Ive watched many land nav vids on here, yours is one of the best, I wanted to brush up a bit and came across your video,, thanks
thats cool to hear, cheers
Very useful. Thanks!
Outstanding explanation of declination.
What an absolutely clear , understandable explanation . Thank you very much.
Glad it was helpful!
Brilliant explanation based on real-life situations!
This is a fantastic explanation. Subscribed and look forward to more!
Awesome, thank you!
Watched all the way through. Well presented, very natural. Put me at ease re declination. I love navigating but from one trip to the next I've forgotten what I have learnt but now I can forget about declination and concentrate on other more important aspects. Thank you Humble Trekker.
Welcome mate
This is simply fantastic. Thanks for the great work!
Thanks
Excellent video...Really clear and precise....Thanks!!
Glad it was helpful!
Good video. Thanks.
Nice and clearly described. Thanks
Thank You.
Brilliant Video
Thanks
You are the FIRST person who has correctly explained that there are THREE norths, and that grid north is NOT the same as true north. Well done you. 9 out of 10 TH-cam sites purporting to teach compass navigation use these two terms (true north and grid north) interchangeably as if they mean the same thing. And they don't. Where I live in New Zealand, the declination from grid north to magnetic north is 21 degrees E. The declination between true north and magnetic north is 24 degrees E. If I follow grid north to visit Santa Claus, I will be many miles off by the time I get there.
Check out Corporal's Corner. His land navigation video also discussed the three norths.
fakecubed I agree corporal kelly and this tutorial are the most clear and accurate navigation tutorials on TH-cam 👍🏻
Excellent knowledge.
Ive wondered how critical declination is. Accuracy setting it, pointing at an object, ability to stay on path, hiking east/ west changing declination, the change over time. And one thing i didnt consider, how often we reroute/ recalculate throughout the hike. You're the only person I've heard adress this, and your point at 20 min in was perfect. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing , great information !
Cheers mate
This is a prime video and needs to be popping up first in these types of series.
Cheers mate
Your's is one of the best tutorials on the compass I've watched. New sub
Thanks
Fantastic explanation- best I have seen. Down to earth and easy to understand
Glad it was helpful!
Ty im doing my project on this its so h elpful
many thanks... now i understand
Thanks very much. You are very good at making things understandable.
Cheers
thank you for the explanations, very clear and interesting.
You are welcome!
Awesome video thanks man you’re the best seriously
I appreciate that!
Excellent video on the practicality of declination. I used to be involved in the creation of such maps and you did a great job of explaining the Norths (there's also geodetic North but lets not get in to that). One thing viewers might question is why the difference between grid N, and True N and why it has to be adjusted for (though not in a practical way as you have demonstrated) so showing that the grid is a series of perpendicular "square" lines evenly spaced along a baseline (like graph paper) and when you slap that grid on a curved surface (the Earth) you'll see that the further N or S you go from that baseline the more divergence there is from the grid to the True lines longitude. Grids are perfect for the coordinate systems we use. From the grid you can get and calculate coordinates on our maps. lat/Lon is good for navigation. Great job on the video!
Nice demonstration, there will be some who nitpick but for the intended purposes your on point. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Nice explanation , thanks
cheers
One of the best explanation on declination 👍
🙏
Best explanation I've seen on you tube me old mucker. Time for a brew now.
738polarbear cheers
Nice to see a UK guy talk about kilometers ;). And a very informative video. I do teach declination, inclination and most of all the human mistake factor. Most students use electronic devices now until batteries run out.
I usually say, different continent, different compass if you are in terrain where a compass that points accurate is really necessary so in remote areas with few landmarks.
Even a button compass that points in the wrong direction but in a constant matter can still be used to prevent you from walking in circles. Because walking in circles is no myth. That's what we do naturally.
Great video, thanks a lot 🤓😃
Glad you liked it!
Great video - superb explanation about a difficult subject . Cheers Torben, DK
Thymallus1965 cheers mate
Thanks Man great info 👍🏻
Any time!
Good video bro, really enjoyed it .
Glad you enjoyed
This guy's good at explaining the details👍
I appreciate that!
Very good
Great explanation and very practical for the land navigation. In real situation this absolutely reasonable and practicable. We got your main point on the subject. Great one. 5stars.... Cheers..
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome video dude
Cheers 🍻
Even I could follow you here, good to know.
1st class presentation and breakdown thankyou so much other presenters can learn alot from your method instead of drowning us with jargon as if we all know the terms already.. Thankyou have subscribed to the channel
Thanks 🙏
Man this video has saved me so much headache.
Fantastic dude thank you so much. 🙏🏼
Glad it helped!
Perfect explanation.
Glad you think so!
Good points you have made and for sure when mag north is say 12 deg East where I am in Melbourne Australia we cant ignore it. Even more so, when the landscape is featureless for a lot of the aussie bush. A good compass with sighting mirror like the Suunto MC2G makes it a lot easier to shoot bearings.
Cheers
Dumb question: do you navigate by the Magnetic North Pole or the Magnetic South Pole? Would they be different numbers? This could get complicated quickly...
@@PatrickKQ4HBD Always by magnetic north pole. And we have to use southern hemisphere compass, as the magnetic field comes up out of the ground, so we have to have north needle weighted heavier than the south, which is opposite of USA. If we dont have a southern compass, we have to take a USA compass and magnetise the needle backwards, then we use white as north and red as south, this is so we have the weighting on the south, so that when the compass is level it balances.
Humble Trekker you are BAD ASS LOVE YA MAN..He is amazing with his craft and very knowledge of what he is doing. What a Great teacher and as real as he can be.
I always wanted to learn how to use a map...I am more a car navigation person that when I rent a car. Live in NY so don't need a car ok anywho 😊. Great job. Much Love 💘
Cheers mate. I appreciate the positive vibe . Take care and I wish you success
@@verysurvival No problem mate same to you love. Have a lovely day. All the best for 2020. Much love
Great vid, thank you very much! I finally understand declination and even better, that I wont ever need it 😁
Cheers
Thanks from Alec from SCOTLAND
Alex Blue cheers mate
good many thanks
Cheers
Astonishing presentation,magnetic declination demistified,real world navigation apllication.The best map /compass video I've seen on You tube.What else should I ask for?My humble complinents Sir. Subscribed.A new Greek fan.
chiosmet thankyou for the positive comment
Very good vid. Here in NZ declaration is around 22 degree. very hard to ignore especially in misty weather.
Yes mate. That’s a different story
Thanks for info ... Just wanted to mention some compasses have a screw that you can adjust the declination on the compass itself and not have to calculate add or subtract the declination manually
Thanks
Hi I think the video is very informative and well presented. Will use in presentation for cadets to aid there use of a compass and route cards.Thanks
Thanks .
This is exactly how we trained in the military for the bush war in South Africa. 10 out of 10
cheers
This is how I’ve always done it. I have got lost a few times in my life, but never using a map and compass and I’ve always done it this way.
Well done, having taught map reading in the RAF Regiment, I found that this guy knew what he was talking about. Yes why get bogged down with heavy compasses and protractors? Silva compass any day so easy and light weight, especially for triangulation,. Well done and get out there folks no excuses .
Great video. I’ve told people for years that trying to walk a straight line can get you lost. Drop into a thicket, climb a steep hill, negotiate around swampy areas etc. next thing you know you’ve drifted and your pace count is off even worse. When possible navigating using terrain association and taking smart paths is the way to go.
Right mate
It's a straw man argument that using a compass means you're attempting to walk in a straight line.
One of best explanations on conversion of azimuth from map to compass and reverse. Most othe videos on this topic don't get to this, the most important part of plotting your track. Thank you.
Thanks
Thanks
Hey you got around to the declination question. I knew a certain amount but you've elaborated here. Thanks for shearing and the effort. Would take some study. All the best. Mark
Yes if I remember you asked about how far one would go wrong . I did this video 6 months ago and released on patreon. You kinda inspired it
I didn't pick up the notification. Was it that long ago? Now it's free will but is inspiration worth you subscribing to my channel? Just a thought. Have a great week. Mark
i have been subscribed for ages mate
Aaah I didn't receive the notification - so sorry about that. I guess the thought has been the result of no visit - again free will. I do some great hiking videos mind you...
Most impressive explanation bravo Zulu
Nice job mate
Retired military veteran
N
thanks
Very interesting video, and you are completely right on not "over-acting" on declination. Indeed, where I am in Spain, I calculated it and on a 3 kilometer track the declination error would result in only about 50 meters... PS I have just subscribed to your channel :-)
Thanks . Nice to meet you
And 50 metres could send you over a cliff edge. Great.
Yes good video, good explanation and I suppose it's all down to preference and your own personal way of navigating. Personally for me
if the difference is more than 2 degrees then you need to take adjustments into account. I do a lot of scrambling and go from ridge to ridge often in poor vis and 2 degrees is the max for me. I would definitely recommend a compass where you can pre set the declination for your area but learning to move from map to compass and vice versa is an essential like learning your times table, its there if you need it. Any young guns out there thinking gps is the answer, yes it is good but if your scrambling through rocks and gulleys your gps will multi map and ping you duff locations, big buildings in cities sometimes do this plus if your on the go for a few days you don't need batteries👍
Yep, those 2º over 300m is 10 metres error. Going into a ridge crossing with 10 metres safe pass with unexpected fog or whiteout, where you can't wait it out... indeed, can become a serious problem fast.
Yep. How long does it take to adjust for magnetic north? Half a second? To ignore it in mountains is dangerous stupidity.
Interesting information, but I will still set my magnetic declination. :)
You are right - I think.
As a new student in these matters, I think the best advice is to take account of and include the declination for your local area.
Don't ignore it - do the calculations every time.
The more one uses and applies the principles, the safer one will be in navigation.
I've been lost (for a week) in a remote area and I can assure you it is not very nice.
Declination is important
But your view is certainly taken into account
I'm lucky. I have no declination at present, well nothing worth mentioning.
New Forest Hampshire UK, only 0.38
Great educational video, I've just learned loads. Thank you sooo much👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I'm a Pompey boy. New Forest is one of the greatest place on the planet
@@verysurvival play up Pompey. Nice to meet you fella🤜🤛😉
I concur.
In New England we're not that far from the magnetic north pole, so declination is substantial. It's over -14 degrees where I live, and more than -15 in Maine. But here straight line navigation is nearly impossible due to either land being owned, or natural barriers.
You are right for common navigation just trust the compass as it is. Most people do not know that the slight variation over one mile is only eight inches per mile squared. All good land surveyors know this is true and you can fact-check this. Here is why any given east-to-west line will follow a curve, but all north and south lines are straight. These days they call it declination and claim it moves but the truth is all east-to-west lines follow a curved line of eight inches per mile squared and that my friend is the truth. The surveyors in America found this error way back in the early days when surveying across the United States. If you look at a map of the United States you will find the curve at the most northern border. They wanted a straight line but the compasses led them on the curved line.
I remember my high school science teacher teaching the compass and explaining the importance of magnetic declination and I have always set the declination on my compasses. So before i watched this video i was saying to myself you have to adjust the compass. Now after watching this you are absolutely right as long as you have some sort of line of sight the declination really is not necessary. Great video.
I was a hard believer in declination adjustment and then I met an Instructor in the Swedish Army. He told me he never taught it in classes and he’s taught 1000s and his reasoning which is what I cover in this video is what persuaded me. I argued with him at first but I started doing it his way and after trying it myself I realized getting anal about declination is not worth it
Humble Trekker my analness will always set the declination though.
Great video hope it can wake some people up and they get interesting in one of the most important parts of there kit the brain . Happy Trails
Agreed
On Ordnance Survey maps the variation / declination of Magnetic north is given from Grid North and True North variation is also given from Grid North. I only ever need to know the variation from Grid North to Magentic north when taking bearing from either land or from a map. Its interesting that the Grid datum for OS maps is 2 degrees west (true Origin) and recently the change of magnetic variation has crossed from West to East start at Langton Matravers on the Dorset coast in November 2022 and is slowly moving north leaving the English Coast at Berwick upon Tweed during August 2025
In the Army we used to call it the magnetic variation, we remebered it by the rhyme Mag to grid = get rid, or Grid to Mag= add.
Clever rhyme
Yes, all this talk about declination confuses me! And that rhyme is the same whether your east or west....the way we were taught was that an East variation is a minus (east us least) and a west variation is positive ( west is best,) to if you'd magnetic variation is 5e, and you are going from a mag bearing of say 150 to a grid, it is 150 - -5, which is 155.... If the mag variation was 10w, going from mag to grid it would be 150- 10 =140....the beauty of this method is you do the same thing regardless of whether variation is east or west. ..it also works in reverse for converting from grid to mag...
Exactly!
Thanks 🙏
When I was in the military we were taught the Grandma socks rule which is Grid -> Magnetic -> Subtract (Grandma’s Socks)
Great explanations on the three north versions. I concur with other commenters on your excellent coverage of this.
However, as to ignoring declination I think it’s dangerous to say you can ignore it or it doesn’t matter. Rather it would be much safer to say you should be aware of what it is so you know which side of your intended target you are aiming for that you will end up. So if you have an easterly declination, you would want to know that so that if you get to the intended distance and you can’t find the object you’re looking for you would know to start looking westerly from your current location. Even if it’s a river you hit or a road etc you would need to know that in the case of an easterly declination that you would be east of your intended meeting point on the road so that you are to head west to arrive at your desired “meeting point”. However, here in Australia and you need to get to a water point eg a windmill pump or a soak or watering point that is on the map you would not want to be ‘ignoring’ the local declination when you could easily be hiking 10km - 23 kms to get there. The error after 5kms here could totally mean the difference between NOT finding that windmill and hence your desired water source. In bush locations you will miss a windmill even it it’s less than 300m away. So my point is readers / viewers - interpret this information carefully for your particular location because I can assure you - here in Australia if you’re out bush and intending to travel to a specific site out bush ON FOOT you do not want to be ignoring declination. The consequences on a 30 -45 Deg C. Day could be very dire. In the least it could just be the embarrassment of having to be rescued because you end up getting lost. Aussies familiar with our outback will know what I am talking about. A significant amount of our country does not afford the pleasures of lots of items to sight or garner a bearing from once you leave the high ground. So perhaps in some countries or regions within some countries (including Australia) perhaps you might be able to ignore it because of the existence of plenty of secondary locator items to help you work out where you are but in some regions (especially outback Australia) you can’t afford to ignore the effects on your navigation of local area declination.
I’m not knocking HT and this great video presentation. Just wanting to make sure you do apply a little common sense when interpreting this message and how to apply it to your intended hike / walk location.
He does mention the importance of anything over 10 degrees, also the variances in readings from compass bearing and sighting to landmark etc
@@YouGruff on a mountain ridge, on an unexpected fog, knowing the its 20 metres wide, only 10 metres are safe, but you can't see it and you can't wait it out. Whether the person decides its important to factor it or if it can be disregarded its their decision. Hence, it mattered and was accounted for.
Its the same as for the use of a compass. Many times, with lots of features, compass stays in the bag. I wouldn't say it wouldn't matter.
Exactly. The presenter is from England: we have mist, white-outs and heavy rain that can just roll in from the sea with no warning. The question is, why does he really think risking getting lost is BETTER than half a second twisting a compass ring by the magnetic off-set number? So dumb!
@@YouGruff 10°? On the moors or in the mountains, 1.5° off can get you killed. What really is the argument for NOT taking a ten-second magnetic bearing? Don't get it.
Very good material. Concise explanation and right conclusions. In fact, it would be possible to go in the right direction, indicated by the compass, also by dodging, choosing a better way, but only if you fixed a point lying on our azimuth and kept an eye on it or... keep him in mind - in situation if only we could find this point, even if it disappeared from our sight for a while, for example in a grove.
When using a compass, it is also worth looking at the topography of the terrain, comparing it with the map. This allows you to correct the position, move in the right direction. In general, the map is the basis, I use the compass rather in the field, where the destination is not visible (e.g. in the forest) and it is impossible to determine it thanks to the map alone. Greetings from Poland.
Cheers and beers
Good explanation of practical ground movement. You only have to look at a footpath on an ordinance survey map to see the pathways. Also see a sheep track across a field. it wanders. Human beings do not like travelling in a straight line.
great mate
In land navigation, the declination become an issue in Northen Canada and Northen Russia where it can go up to 50°. Less but still, in South Africa or New Zeeland, where a proper calibration of magnetic declination is more than necessary.
What I use for underwater navigation works just as well for me on land. I leapfrog from landmark to landmark on fixed objects along my chosen route. In bad visibility or thick brush it helps to have a partner who moves ahead of me at my direction and then stops and waits for me to join him and then we take another bearing and so on. If I come to an obstacle it avoid it by taking right angles around it till I’m back to my original line. Having a tall visible fixed object that I can re take my bearing helps or I use a pace counter.
interesting to compare to diving, cool
One of the best descriptions of declination I have seen - thanks so much. One concern I do have though is you dismiss its importance but I am in New Zealand where our declination is on average 23 degrees E. So I believe it’s important to take the declination into consideration when taking a map bearing to a compass bearing when selecting the path of travel on a hike. Would you agree? Or am I being too fussy.?
I say in the vid if it is more than 10 degrees don’t ignore it ;-) in New Zealand adjust for declination
Exactly. In the terrain I see in this video, there are trees, brush, rocks, and hills. You can't go it a straight line for 100 yards and probably not for 100 feet.
word
If you're standing down under, (Australia) holding a compass in a level position, isn't it pointing to outer space?To point in a northern direction shouldn't it point in a vertical direction as the north is up over ?
Nope. You need a south hemisphere compass and a compass needle actually aligns itself to the lines of magnetic field at the place you are standing. It doesn’t actually point at a spot in the north. But those lines if your were to walk along them would eventually arrive at that point, like following a winding path way
What about Celestial North?
Also, the UK is how many miles wide? Ignore declination at your own risk in the western US.
Excellent explanation and I agree with most of your points, however it seems to be largely due to coincidence, that the Zero declination lines happen to run right through the middle of the US and Europe right now, which is another question in and of itself...
The also go through the middle of asia, India, South America, the Pacific Ocean , Oceania , Africa and Western Australia.