Catholic Feminism - Dr Abigail Favale | Maiden Mother Matriarch 21
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Dr Abigail Favale is a writer and professor in the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame. She has an academic background in feminist literary criticism, and now writes and teaches on topics related to women and gender from a Catholic perspective. Abigail most recently authored The Genesis of Gender: A Christian Theory. On the podcast we discussed gender in the genesis narrative and Abigail's conversion to Catholicism. In the extended part of the podcast Abigail talks about contraception abortion from a Catholic feminist perspective and we discuss the demise of ‘woman studies’ now known as gender studies..You can find extended episodes, bonus episodes, and the MMM chat community at louiseperry.substack.com
01:34 The Babylonian creation narrative
06:06 Importance of sexual difference in Genesis
11:46 Evolutionary psychology lens
14:43 Divine and human language
17:30 Protestant interpretation of Genesis
25:56 Abigails background
28:30 The demise of ‘Woman studies’
38:14 Absolute vs psychological difference between men and women
41:15 Abigail’s conversion to Catholicism
51:08 Male priests
The MMM podcast can also be found on Apple, Spotify, and all other streaming platforms: linktr.ee/maid...
Follow Maiden Mother Matriarch on social media:
Twitter: / maiden_podcast
Instagram: / maiden_mother_matriarch
TikTok: tiktok.com/@maiden_podcast
Keeper - Meet the person who meets your standards with the world’s most advanced matchmaking solution. Driven by AI and relationship science. Guided by human care. Learn more at keeper.ai
#LouisePerry #AbigailFavale #MaidenMotherMatriarch
I love Favale’s book and I love this podcast! Thanks for having her on! Like Favale, I’m a Catholic convert (from evangelicalism) and am continually struck by the way the Church honors the body, the feminine, and the maternal. Every Mass feels like a wedding.
Same here. In Protestantism it felt like the feminine had been cut out of it, which led me to paganism for a long time. Now I'm Catholic and I feel more seen, understood and cared for as a woman in the Catholic church than I ever did in Paganism or Evangelicalism.
@@AnastasiaR “I feel more seen, understood, and cared for as a woman in the Catholic Church…” 💯 yes.
YES!! Ive been waiting for this crossover! Thanks for having Favale on! She's awesome. ❤
Psychological differences between men and women don't bother me in the slightest. It seems that built into the aversion to difference is the assumption that whichever differences are true of women are automatically the inferior of the two. Why assume that? Differences don't have to be hierarchical, but even if you think they are, why assume the male version is the better one? Perhaps the female one is?
How I wish I could sit over dinner and a glass of wine with you, Louise, Abigail and Mary Harrington. I'm sure I'd be intellectually out of my league, but what a blast to be able to engage in conversation with you all. Can you have a contest and the winner gets to have dinner with you all!!??
My ideal companions as well
Now that's the ultimate girls' night 😂
Shrieked with excitement when this appeared on my feed 😊
Favale seems like more of a natural listener. I'd love to hear hear dive into "Catholic Feminism" in a bit more depth and detail.
She has a couple other wonderful interviews, including one with Benjamin Boyce where they talk about this
Dr. Favale's book is excellent, and she is a delightful interviewee
One of my favorite episodes ever! Please have her back!!! I've read both your books and this is the conversation I've wanted to hear
I never found Eve being made from Adam's rib as classifying her as a second class citizen...but then that is because I went off direct reading.
YES!! Finally this crossover 🎉
I clicked so fast ❤
If it is just a symbol, to hell with it. But, symbols symbolize SOMETHING. Perhaps it represents something that cannot be explained in any other way.
Animals have audible signals to alert others of predators, which would seem to be a more solid precursor of language than merely pointing.
Your podcast is so incredibly excellent. It's such a delight to listen to.
I was going to comment on how the smart girl my age pseudo ironic trad convos here are starting to remind me of a certain podcast hosted by Anna and Dasha, the very name of which will apparently get your comments removed.
The best argument in support of male-only priesthood I’ve ever heard is the World of Priestcraft episode (Lord of Spirits podcast) by two Orthodox priests. Dr. Favale’s views were quite similar to what was said in their very extended discussion 😊
I’m reading Edith Stein right now. It’s so good.
History of women's medicine...have you connected with Naomi Wolf yet?
24:27 could eve be "assumed" to be MUCH younger than Adam? How long would it take, dor instance to "Name" ALL of reality? Or at least all the Animals extant to the Unaided Human Perception?
Modern "Science" is STILL Finding NEW and Extinct animals, with THOUSANDS if "Seekers" and CENTURIES if not Millennia of work.
If so, could Eve, un the context of the fall, be similar at least, to the sort of Rebellious Naive teenage female who typically fall for the sort of Psychopath Male Evil who either winds up in Jail, or at the other END of "the scale" on TOP of whichever "game" he ends up choosing to participate in? Often to degrees of Damage that is BLAMED on ALL of "Male" HUMANITY in perpetuity?
Another "thing" I have always been extremely curious about with no Biblical answer I was ever able to find is THIS...What EXACTLY was Eve's JOB before the Fall? She was CHILDLESS, after all?!
Ah, yes. Marduk and Tiamat. Babylonian myth. Very interesting discussions on this years ago.
The Biblical narrative seems to have God carve out a space between two levels of chaos represented by the waters. God’s creative spirit subdues the water and chaos by giving us land and pushing the waters above back above the dome - the “firmament” of the heavens. Noah story is God letting the waters/chaos fall and destroy the world. God’s power holds back the chaos.
In Babylonian captivity the Jewish people saw huge parades for Marduk where the image of the god made of marble was rolled down the parade route and praised.
The Jewish community said, “Our God is so far beyond Marduk that the image of YHWH is not dead stone. The image of God is human beings- fully alive and moving and free.”Personal and intelligent and moral. This was an amazing stroke of genius - unbelievably brilliant and different than any of the gods that other cultures believed could be captured in stone.
I wonder what Louise would do about her affinity to evolutionary psychology for her to read Signature in the Cell and Darwin’s Doubt by Stephen Meyer.
Other people you may want to have talks with, Louise, are Nancy Pearcey and Alice Von Hildebrand, though Alice, if still alive, must be almost 100 by now, so act quickly!!
23:40 What I have wondered about Eve was how old was Adam when God finally decides he has named enough animals. It almost implies same day? But how long would it take?
And mire importantly with regard to Eve, was there an age difference that we have seen each sex preferring in the main since, forever. Since Genesis.
How much woulf knowing this change a LOT of dialogues?
This was excellent and so uplifting
Love your content but really struggling to hear you. You start your thoughts at a great volume and finish them off with a whisper!
26:38 don't forget that 99 percent of humanity was kept illiterate.
divine language & Human language is a response to that which is real
I love this episode!!! Second time listening and still finding things to be amazed about.
This conversation gives me hope for the future.
Why is being made out of his ribs amazing? Like I get the point about being made of his side is better than his feet but why is she made of him at all? Especially given women are givers of life in the scientific sense and men contribute a relatively very small part to the life giving process.
@@kc6810 yeah. this is the opposite kind of lie told to the males can be women lies of the current day lol
@@kc6810 Except we don't are you aware of what chromosomes are? A lack of a penis and presence of nipples isn't what defines female. Equally with this I could just say women are simply underdeveloped men.
Catholic Feminism is a contradictio in terminis.
Enlightening
French feminist theory is a rich and complex field, but here are some of its main thrusts:
1. Psychoanalysis and the Body: Many French feminists were heavily influenced by psychoanalysis, particularly the work of Jacques Lacan. They explored how ideas like the unconscious and the symbolic order shape our experiences of gender. The body became a central focus, investigating how it's a site where cultural ideas about gender are inscribed.
2. Phallocentrism and Écriture féminine: French feminists like Luce Irigaray critiqued "phallocentrism," the idea that masculine experience is the norm in language, thought, and society. In response, some theorists like Hélène Cixous developed the concept of écriture féminine, a form of writing that celebrates the feminine and seeks to express women's unique experiences.
45:35 DING DING DING!
"All male priesthood" how is that different from nearly all protestant churches where only men are pastors?
But on the flip side, what about nuns?
What do you mean, what about nuns?
Are you assuming that nuns are inferior to priests?
Identify and Differentiate the Feminine Principle from the Masculine Principle
To
Integrate and Transcend the Masculine and the Feminine
From the FisioSphere
To the BioSphere
To the NooSphere
Until the TheoSphere
Thaaannnk Yooouuu ❤️ 💚 💜
The Fall represents the movement out of the Fusion with Nature
From the Unconscious Hell ❤️
The Pains and Fights represents the Creation of the Ego
To the Conscious Hell 💚
The Integration and Transcendence of the Ego is
the movement out of the Fusion with the Ego into the Theosphere.
Until the Paradise of Consciousness 💜
It seems like the fall in Genesis explains what we basically already know about how men and women behave in sex/relationships. Some things don't change.
42:03 I’m delighted with the sisterhood for obliterating that specific narrative. Lady brains my arse.
42:03 I’m delighted with the sisterhood for obliterating that specific narrative. Lady brains my arse.
If I could arrange housing for you all here in the beautiful Berkshires of Massachusetts and lure Mary Eberstadt to the table, too, would you come?
From Polytheism ❤️
To Monotheism 💚
Until Ditheism 💜
"You cannot project concepts in our time onto history"
I would love to see a conversation between you and Carrie Gress, author of Anti-Mary Exposed and The End of Woman (a history of feminism). She makes the case that it is impossible to be a Catholic Feminist, it would be like saying "I am a Catholic Marxist". The two cannot go together. I agree with Carrie wholeheartedly as I am a devout Catholic and am working my way through a terribly feminist world. Catholicism truly upholds femininity and now that I have embraced this, I am freer than I ever have been.
I recommend you read her book titled "The Genesis of Gender". There, she discusses which aspects of mainstream feminism she thinks that fit into Catholicism and which not.
Destruction comes before creation
Love Irigaray
*promo sm* 💞
Yess!!! Soo good.
👍
Of the three myths discussed here, the evolutionary psychology offering was by far the silliest.
Spiritually speaking, matriarchal wisdom can begin with a fundamental understanding of the cyclical nature of reality (God).
Represented by the snake in many creation myths, the living cycle has a trinity of a beginning (head), a middle and end (tail). As above so below, the sexes were created in the image of God's cyclical nature where Mother is the head and opening to all beginnings and Father holds the tail to all endings (through which the sowing of seeds allow for the next great matriarchal rebirth).The joining of the two (symbolized by the Ouroborus or the marriage ring) is the sacred union needed in assuring the creation and continuation of new life cycles. To speak of the present day God as "Our Father" is simply an admission to our collective positioning within the bigger cycle.
As all mothers have direct experience with the creator quality of birthing, so is the direct experience of rebirthing the divinity within (baptism) belong to that which is spiritually matriarchal. (John 3, verse 3-8).
Sekhmet statues (ancient Egyptian) carry most of their weight in symbolic memory of what was a mother culture dedicated to the direct experience of baptism. As the leg shaped hairlocks extend from maternal breasts to the womb of rebirth, the lioness's head proportions are such that they highlight the bust of a second animal figure. The Lioness's ears as eyes and eyes as nose (nostrils) brings to life the figure of a reptile. 'Neath the halo headress of the solar egg, the lioness's egg fertilization process being internal (Set) and the reptile's egg fertilization process being external (Setting), such being key components to the safety of entering the trans-egoic or "born again" state. The life threatening fear associated with the predatory nature of a lion and/or crocodile encounter are reflective of the intense ego death experiences associated with the transpersonal awakening process.
In spiritually matriarchal times, illumination could be seen as wearing the false beard (ancient Egyptian funerary "ego" death mask) as the high state of cyclical self knowing; high awareness of both our upper matriarchal half and our lower (later) patriarchal half (compared with a mini lower body replica, an "as above so below" tail end beard extension); in full recognition of her civilizational Underworld; her inevitable cyclical destiny. The male pharaoh wears his beard tapered in reverse, indicating a pointing upwards towards the patriarchal head, divine representative of God's tail end cycle.
Mary's anointing and wiping of Jesus's feet with her hair can then be seen as "Head to tail" (toe) imagery as she descends her matriarchal head to his patriarchal feet, thus reenacting the high understanding of the divine cyclical process. (John 12, verse 3)
To carry the Ankh was perhaps to symbolically carry that upper and lower understanding. As the upper matriarchal womb symbolised the fertile birthing of civilization, below, the now Christian cross is carried to place emphasis on the lower (later) "End Times" Father principle of the great cycle.
Lord Ganesha, the elephant headed Hindu diety, displays a cyclical head to trunk symbolism and points to the Mother head of his matriarchal elephant society. Ganesha (like the elephant) wears God's cyclical nature on his face.
A whole temple was dedicated to the ancient Egyptian goddess Hathor, who is the matriarchal "Uterus" personified. th-cam.com/video/J0m0zJSEFK0/w-d-xo.html
"See all women as mothers, serve them as your mother. when you see the entire world as the mother, the ego falls away. See everything as Mother and you will know God." - Neem Karoli Baba
Great interview, really enjoying this channel. Going to buy Abagail's book. Praying for your conversion to Catholicism 🙏
The Maiden The Mother and The Crone lol
How many women were burnt as witches because of the Catholic church I wonder🤔
Maybe you should look more into it.....would surprise you what actually happened vs our typical understanding of those events
@@b.melakail I was taught the whitewashed version in school to start with.
I'm well aware of what happened because I looked into again as an adult, and strangely enough when I looked into what actually happened and the tortures that were involved, it was even more horrendous than I thought, I'm not just talking "witch"' burnings, the whole Spanish inquisition and their torture methods.
The catholic church isn't what people think it is, its just a money making scheme now.
I've just watched a debate on abortion, it had 2 Catholic women who were being funded by numerous Catholic and right-wing organisations and one of the most frustrating things is that there are actual children in the world starving to death as we speak, you can see the suffering in their eyes, but these people don't care about that, if they did they'd spend their time arguing for an end to world hunger, but they wouldn't get funding from the Catholic church and right-wing religious groups to do something like that, there are literally places in Africa where the church says no to contraception and yet there are already starving children.
The Catholic church is rich, and to get as much money as possible it needs as many believers as possible, and that's what motivates their anti abortion and contracpteion stances, its out of greed not care.
They're a disingenuous greedy bunch.
At one point the Catholic church used to sell absolution, if you were a sinful Lord worried about going to hell when you died, all you had to do was sign over all your wealth to them in the eventing your death and you'd get a luxury ticket straight to heaven lol
Scammers.
I read modern studies of the Inquistion and I was shocked by the divergence between the history and the widespread propagandistic representations of it.
@@itsirrelephantman Witch burning is a thing that started happening in protestant countries, and was practiced by protestants, not Catholics.
@@m.d.d.k.7136 witch burning was was practiced by both.
The Spanish inquisition was Catholic persecution of protestants and anyone else who didn't bow to Rome.
The witchcraft persecutions differed widely between the regions, and was most intense in the territories of the Catholic Prince Bishops in Southwestern Germany. The witch trials of the Catholic Prince Bishops of South West Germany were arguably the biggest in the world.