Red herrings, red herrings everywhere (4th Gen Intel Build, No POST) - LFC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2022
- This custom build came in with a No POST issue, and there's a lot pf problems to find. Which one is the culprit? And remember... It's never the CPU. Unless it is. Spoilers below...
None of the above. All the loose cables. No cooling. None of it was actually stopping the system from working. The BIOS was corrupted (Bit-rot?) and needed reprogramming.
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Brief FAQ because this video's doing numbers:
Q: You didn't test the other RAM slots.
A: Yea that was a cock-up, dead slots are actually very uncommon, but I should checked another slot when I dropped down to a single module. I think the fact that I was getting absolutely no response from changing the RAM config was why I moved away from that, if there'd been _any_ change of behaviour (power cycling, etc) I'd have been more thorough.
Q: You should've known it was memory issues, you should've looked up the POST Code right away.
A: I think you missed the part where it was nothing to do with memory, and the entire message of the video is to watch out for misleading symptoms.
Q: This board has BIOS flashback. You didn't need a programmer.
A: This was my bad - despite talking about flashback in the video, I didn't actually check. But hey, it was still a chance to show of other techniques that exist.
Q: It's dirty!
A: Yes. This is pretty normal for most PCs. Very few people clean their PCs. It usually won't stop anything from working, unless a fan is completely blocked. I inspect before cleaning because if something breaks during the cleaning process, I'll know it was me, and not a fault the PC came in with.
Dead Memory slot is highly unlikely cause atleast since 4th gen and for AMD with Ryzen the memory controller is inside the CPU so unless you have a physically damaged slot memory issues come from the CPU
@@animalm4st3r Had that issue on an AMD processor. I thought the motherboard had a burned out channel. It turned out that the processor was faulty. When it is a processor issue two slots will fail at once, while a motherboard issue will usually give you one unusable slot.
How much did you charge for the total repair ? Was the charge a fixed charge or dependant on CMOS Battery, BIOS flash, etc ?
carbide 300R . did not try the other memory slots, it works just the same even if the mobo suggests to do otherwise. Still not a rossman you...keep learning. You jumped hoops , the bios flashback was good next step. The empty battery makes the dead/corrupted bios very much possible. Asus has the bios flashback function , bios onto a usb stick , much easier. You wanna learn about bios and cap files , check fernando's win-raid webforums. plenty more to learn there about all things bios, management engines, microcodes... About bios flashback, it can be picky about the usb memstick used. I myself have such a case with a p8z77-m i7-3770 fully updated customized bios... had to do it myself since Asus dropped all support . And it's still running strong, though i just upgraded to a i7-11700k system.
Yea even though he removed the dust bunny from the ram slot, the camera picked up more general dust towards other end a couple of inches long.
New version: "it's never the CPU, even when you think it is."
Rom bios flash core ram programming no do
Another to go with that... "Its always the bios even when it says its memory" lol
@@adampyro834 Bad guy bios blaming others
More likely to be aliens than the CPU in my experience.
I hope I will finish all the videos slowly 😅😊
Best stock intel cpu cooler explanation ever.
Conclusion: Buy a decent one and throw the stock cooler in the bin
@@Chris-yy7qc i swear, whoever designed it was quite smart because it's a simple and effective system that doesn't require screws and that goes easy on the motherboard, but whoever decided that instructions just didnt matter needs to get to live in prison for the rest of his life. I know how it works and i still managed to break mine, the worst part is that i cant afford a proper heatsink so im gonna get one off of AliExpress wich had a good review on TH-cam, wish me luck because i don't have much hope for thoose 20 bucks
@@Ferrari255GTO The Aliexpress tower coolers are quite good for the money. Most of the time its the fan they cheaped out on. But it can be easily replaced in most cases.
@@Chris-yy7qc good to know. It just doesn't feel right spending 20 bucks on a cooler when most similar ones are around 80 or 90 without a fan.
Antec A 30 cooler is best
Great job! The benefit of ignoring the obvious (the error code) - you covered lots of other important stuff that was worth investigating regardless of the fault. eg. Say a BIOS reset (via that button) had fixed the problem, you wouldnt have seen the dirt in the memory socket, nor the unseated heatsink, and the connector issues. My view with any fault is rule out all the low hanging fruit (as you described it) first, regardless of how obvious the POST code might be - you will be surprised at what you discover and the end result will be a far more reliable machine. My other "goto" there would be to measure voltages and perhaps scope them.
I love this kind of videos, It's like one of those police series where you have to find out who the killer is. Keep them coming please.
16 gigs of ram I got 80 I win!
All that dust inside the PC, and not a single fingerprint! Think the killer got away with it this time!
@Adamant IT you need to start making some merch with your slogans. "Never the CPU, except when it is"
33:22 "confirmation bias" was perhaps what you were reaching for? Like many other viewers here I can't get enough of desktop troubleshooting videos - they never get old. I often learn something or at least sympathise with your frustration.
So please keep em coming in '22.
I've a old MAXIMUS V GENE with a 3770k which I thought some years ago was broken (did light up but nothing else) I kept it hoping one day I can fix it (I went onto 6700k/8700k and now got 12700k still got all 3) watched your video and you said power supply, I dug the board out and put the power supply from my 8700k and bingo it worked lol, thank you
kid gets the computer back and it runs 50% faster due to being assembled correctly for the first time in it's entire life🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Woohoo! I have been waiting for the Graham to post. Happy New Year and welcome back.
Who is the great Adam?
His name is Graham
I did this from my phone and had to be autocorrect. Oops.
I like a man who can admit his mistakes. You could have edited that out but didn't. Good on you.
So anything he did before he discovered the error was a mistake in your estimation? I'd call it troubleshooting myself.
Fortnight is so poetic but one would think it metric given the accent. Seeing that you've spilled the beans on it being two weeks I will be asking my boss for a fortnight of vacation time and see what happens.
How that PC worked 7 years without blowing up....I am amazed.
For the average daily user it wont show up as a failure.
The CPU will simply throttle down and run on a much slower clock speed, thus producing much less heat.
It will most likely appear as a random slow reacting PC during the active session.
@@CXensation This is one of the real differences that separated Intel from AMD for the longest time. You simply could not run an AMD without a cooler or it would burn. You could with an Intel as it would simply throttle down to accommodate.
In all my years of building and repairing PC's it never ceases to amaze me what a modern CPU can survive.
I once discovered, after using it for a decade, I had omitted to remove the plastic peel off the CPU cooler. It was a Core 2 Duo. Never had problems lol.
We don't know how much of it happened after the PC was experiencing problems. Typically someone will try to fix something themselves before seeking expert help. The BIOS corruption was just out of their depth. I'd wager they did built the PC themselves though. So I'd further bet they went all through it unplugging and plugging everything back in before they took it for servicing. The last time around they likely didn't do that great a job of it either.
CPU needs no cooling, so bizarre, it lived years "semi-cooled" and survived! to tell us about it, amazing
Intel has had remarkable thermal throttle protection since the late Pentium 3, something AMD didn't do until the Athlon 64 era. I remember many a Athlon/Duron/Sempron suffering basically instant thermal death if the heatsink wasn't installed properly. If you left the CPU without a heatsink, it'd quickly shoot up to 700F or so and either burn or explode. I still remember a kid back in High School turning on his personal Athlon build without a heatsink and unfortunately for him, the CPU detonated and sent pieces of itself flying up into the ceiling. Thankfully the case was on its side and contained any shrapnel from hitting other people in the room, but there were gold pins and bits of ceramic embedded in the ceiling for the rest of the year.
@@GGigabiteM Reminds me of that old Tom's Hardware video where they did a heatsink removal test on a Pentium 4, Pentium 3, then two Athlons while running a game.
I once came across a video on TH-cam where someone pulled the heatsink off a Duron while it was running, and the chip literally flew out of the socket off the motherboard, a few seconds later. Many people in the comments thought it was bullshit, maybe it was rigged with dynamite under the CPU or something, I too thought this was unbelievable and had to be fake. But now after hearing your buddy's experience I really wonder what can cause these CPUs to explode if heated up to extreme temps rapidly. Whether one of the materials the package is made of has violent explosive properties at high temperatures (like TNT), or there's a pocket of air or something inside the CPU can cause it to explode like that.
@@bestage9429 >I really wonder what can cause these CPUs to explode if heated up to extreme temps rapidly.
Really no need to wonder if you look into thermodynamics of materials. Bridges have expansion joints so they don't blow themselves apart. Tiny temperature changes can cause thousands of tons of force.
This is the same thing that causes BGA failure on ICs with ROHS solder, the thermal cycling causes movement in a material with no ductility, so it cracks and fails.
In early Socket 462 Athlons, the package was a hard ceramic. If the core rapidly heated to 700F and the surrounding ceramic substrate didn't follow, it could create enough force to blow the package apart. I'd imagine it'd be much more likely to happen on a new chip rather than an old chip, since the ceramic package probably had micro fractures in it from thousands of heat cycles that could allow some give to expansion.
In all three scenarios, you're dealing with hundreds or thousands of pounds of force. It'd be like putting a ceramic block in a hydraulic press and having a pikachu face when it exploded from the pressure.
My i5-4670 CPU runs cooler than a cucumber. I only have a Hyper T2 fan on it too. Was a whopping $10 when I bought it. Does the job though. It is a bit cool in the shop today but the hottest core temp is +24.0°C One core is +19.0°C It's really chilling.
@@GGigabiteM the pentium 4 and pentium 3 had horrible thermal management. the pentium 4 would try to lower clock speed "if it was equipped with speed step which mostly was on the mobile chips"
Watched beginning to end. Easy to follow and systematic repair. loved it!
Systematic? No.
22 minutes in, he's FINALLY using the diagnostic code the board is presenting him with. Sure, there might be other work to do, but he decided "looking up a diagnostic code" is harder than "randomly guessing" until he got to the CMOS battery. Come on, that's nonsense.
@@Those_Weirdos The video can still be very helpful for many people. 1. many motherboards do not have a diagnostic display at all. 2. these displays can be inaccurate/misleading for someone who is not so familiar with the matter.
@@Those_Weirdos
i think the same at first.
but on 2nd thought, if you are trying to fix so many PCs
those "randomly" guesses cost less effort than using our head to think.
im just an avid watcher with no electronics experience ...im just interested in watching how things work and how they are repaired.. but one thing i must say is how you put your skills over is easy on the eye and very proffessional .. you are very knowledgeable sir ..
As a former repair tech for apple i found this video similar to a lot of RMA computers i dealt with, units that had weird symptoms and often misleading clues, determination and patience is the key to be a good tech..well done my dude !
The fact that apple sells new and doesnt repair anything determined that was a lie.
'Disappointed, not surprised' 36:43 - This is a truly underrated comment and happens all the time.
As a computer technician I am amazed how you can extend simple diagnostics in to this sort of video. I've just been watching for 20 min and so far you just checked the connectors, thermal compound, few other details but the whole thing is not boring at all... I was trying to do videos too but I just can not do that. I do not know how to turn activities which seem so simple to me in to interesting content. You know how to do it. Well done.
Waffle. Or informative commentary, to flatter myself ;)
A few people are like "wah wah wah, it took you a 50min video to flash the BIOS" but the thing is, when you're saying and explaining every thought that comes to mind while you work, it'll take you ten times longer to do it. However, that's how you get informative content, and not just a demonstration.
@@Adamant_IT Yes, exactly. I was thinking of starting my own yt channel to boost the marketing of my computer repairs business. I even got the cameras all set up around my desk. But after I hit record I just can not do what you are doing so easily - talk. To me, there's nothing especially fascinating in taking a laptop apart and I can not really see anything worth additional explanation in this activity. But when I am watching you... you can talk about old intel heatsink for 5min and somehow it is entertaining even for someone like me who knows the stuff.
@@karolkrasinski8947 he would be / is a great teacher. i have been in my current (unrelated) career for 15 years and it is very easy for me to forget to explain the basic things to laymen. i will skip right over and realize my errors later. good teachers do not do this.
It’s like watching dr House „It’s never Lupus“ „I mean it’s never the CPU“
Graham, you definitely earned your money on this one, it looks to me that the customer had tried to fix it himself,
but the loose cooler was definitely puzzling, if I was you I would ask him what he had done to the cooler, just for my own peace of mind.
that computer looks like your system dude it's that dirty
@@raven4k998 Hi Troll, How are you today?
@@jonathanmaybury5698 it's ok if your a troll have fun troll boy
@@raven4k998 How old are you? Six?
@@jonathanmaybury5698 six older then you kiddo
nice job. the fact that you got this machine back up and running without being overly critical of the user may get you thanks and a customer for a good long time.
Good episode this was, so many possible variables it boggles the mind, a rare bird.
A very good video going through and explaining all the steps to diagnose all the components and getting to the root cause. Also I like the way you take care of the computer by cleaning and getting it back in prestine shape. It show proudness in what you do. Nice!
Good stuff man. Keep up the great work!
Always happy to see an Adamant IT video about a desktop pc! The montage of the building at the end was very beautiful.
I just came across this video and I've loved it from star to finish. You were so thorough with all the steps you took while diagnosing the PC. And I even got the chance to watch how a BIOS programming tool is used. So you just earned a new subscriber to your channel
great vid, fully clear and structured walkthrough...well done, great job! :)
Graham, you returned from holiday with an excellent video! I have missed these. Thanks so much.
I've been watching your videos since 5k subs. Crazy to see how far you've come. It always fascinates me how you diagnose issues.
I really appreciate these kind of troubleshootings videos
You did a great job
Thank you for the
video
I'm amazed that the processor still works-well after everything it's been through.
Glad I've found you. Clear inteligible audio, mostly logical troubleshooting approches, nice editing, good content. Subscribed.
Mate, this video is pure gold! The calm and clear explanation, the follow-through process and the effort to consider all the possibilities before jumping to the obvious conclusions is what make everybody understand the beauty of an IT repair job! Thanks!
Wow, what a great video, loved that you went into such detail on the machine coding side of things, great work here Graham!
You do such a phenomenal job Adam.
Love the down to earth content that you provide.
Your one of a kind my friend.
Never change and thank you for all that you do.
if i remember correctly .cap is kinda like a capsule, it was an added layer of security to prevent bios modding maybe it contained a checksum of the bios, but when the .bin file was extracted you could still flash the .bin.
Just found this Chanel randomly through the TH-cam algorithm.... I think I'm in love 🥰
That ending cleanup montage was super satisfying, especially because you were able to address so many other issues along the way. I imagine some other technicians may have just avoided those issues as a "not my problem" mindset so I appreciate your attention to detail. Nice work sir!
Another brilliant diagnosis. This was a great watch, from Canada. Your professionalism is admirable.
Very nice and thorough repair,thank you!
Thanks for sharing. Have a great 2022 Graham. Dutch regards, Nico.
Commenting to help with the algorithm. Great job as always. I wish you an awesome 2022, Graham!
Welcome Back Graham .... Great to See the Contact Rolling ... Happy New Year Sir ...
Very thorough troubleshooting. Well done. 👍
Brilliant. Your depth of knowledge is really outstanding.
I do enjoy watching your repair videos. I even managed to save a 10 year old pc without adding any new parts; so THANK YOU!! Hey, it was save the damn thing or spend 1200 bucks on a new video card ;). Oh, it was the bios of course. :) I like how simply CLEANING the damn computer and a bit of cable management make the whole tower look like a new computer.
Awesome channel dude. That is happiness and makes me happy to see somebody doing a profession they love.
Intel thermal throttling is nothing short of amazing for managing to last this well in torture conditions. And that beta version is the specter/meltdown patch IIRC. That model (Maximus VII Ranger) is the same I have, and from what I remember, that BIOS appeared around that time.
look like the BIOS on my Maximus IV Extreme
@@miff227 I doubt Asus made them look any different for the same ROG branding. You can see it is the Ranger around the 5:00-5:10 mark, both in the VRM heatsink as well as the board printing.
@@freemansfreedom8595 2019 ROG motherboards also have the same skin as the one in the video.
@@freemansfreedom8595 sorry, I thought you were suggesting that BIOS look came into being around the time of 4th gen Core CPUs?
@@miff227 no, I meant that it is my current mobo, and that beta patch is for patching the meltdown/specter vulnerability
Brilliant. I'm so glad your back. I've missed you terribly. Happy New Year.
That was a nice one Graham... Normally I'm thinking with you in the beginning and 9 out of 10 times my hunch is right with these kind of repairs and this time I was as clueless as anybody else. Great explanations and good fix. A+ for you today haha. And a happy new year to you sir!
Happy new year to you adamant IT a CPU with an anti gravity cooler very interesting loved your episode from start to finish all it was the bios had to be reprogrammed and updated.all the best for 2022.
Another professional repair. BRAVO
Incredibly informative and fluently presented. Thank you!
This was a great adventure in diagnostic work! Thanks for another top shelf video.
That thing wouldnt even come into my shop without it being Cleaned out . Disgustingly dirty this things is . Youre a trooper mate .
Another great video, loved your frustration, "I'm Tired", well done.
Great video. I loved your reaction the CPU cooler being loose. I bought a custom built PC in October 2021 and had CPU heating issues with an AIO liquid cooler. After a few weeks of research, I tried replacing the stock paste that came with the Kraken X63. Found out the paste was dry as a bone and replaced it with Arctic MX-5 and my CPU stopped thermal throttling and running at 90C playing games. Now i see 75C tops running Cinebench with PBO enabled on my 5800X. Rerouting all the cables was I nice a touch.
Good video and good diagnosis, well done!
The method and sequence you use as every time... saved you. (read customer)
Happy New Year to everyone.
Excellent vid! I enjoyed all 53mins of it!
I dig the build montage. Very informative. Thanks!
Very good video well done for proceeding to find the fault and then the way you cleaned it all up and put it back 👍🇨🇻
Another interesting video, Adam. Working through several issues was better than just fixing one thing and it works as some people do as other problems needed addressing.
Just like to say I enjoy watching your videos You're much more information than most of the other guys that make videos for TH-cam. You have given me inspiration and enough knowledge to build or rebuild my current PC which I have now started. It just comes down to the finances to get the parts I need.
Thanks for the information you have provided.
Loved watching this video very informative going through many possible problems
Hi Graham, I like the wording "bit rot" :) ... A good culprit - cause for "bit rot" is low voltage, aka CMOS battery. It would be so nice if motherboard manufacturers including a circuit to monitor CMOS battery with all the other voltage monitoring.. Anyways, enjoyed the red herring tour de force, because you did find many other build problems, and resolved them as well - NICE work!
@@badjonatan The CMOS battery powers the RTC which contains some SRAM to store volatile settings, nothing to do with the BIOS Flash memory IC. This RTC may be integrated into the chipset or APU in some cases.
Man, I’ve never subbed to someone so fast. You had me at no 8 pin connected to MB 😂😂😂 we’ve all been there brother!
Nice repair.
Best wishes from the Netherlands🍾
haven't watched the whole video yet already gave it a like. i do love no post troubleshooting videos. happy new year.
Great video to start the new year!
Thank you so much.This was a really enjoyable video to watch. Just subscribed because this is ASMR for hardware geeks.
Great video the dust and bad cable management was messing with my ocd 🙂
Well that was very educational especially how the machine was put together in the first place it was just amazing how the thing worked at all from day one and is a lesson for all prospective builders.
Good thing you have all necessary tools. Great job
Everything you did was EXCELLENT, this is how you know for sure what works and what doesn't, I diagnose the same way.
Another brilliant video thank you so much for sharing
Nicely composed video - cheers!
Great video! I find these videos extremely relaxing lol :)
Really relaxing to watch you work, all rants included. =D
The most learnfull video i have ever seen.Thanks for showing us.Ii have never learn so much in one day about computers.
One of your best uploads to date mate, thank you. 😊
This is my first video of yours that I have watched and I watched it from beginning to the end. Amazing explanations and good throwback to our god and savior Ross. After you managed the cables and stuff the case looked brand new and sexy af. Love from Turkey, liked and subbed!
Another interesting video. Happy and Safe New Year
You're very skillful and knowledgeable!
You the most talented guy I ever see I here, on TH-cam, I like you !! And the way you explain the things!! Top man💪💪💪💪
Brilliant job,graham,well done sir,
I like that you actually fixed it by reflashing the bios instead of just replacing the motherboard as so many other "tech" or "repair" channels would have done. A ch314a with a clamp is only like $15 after all.
Excellent job. This one was a very interesting road traveled!
Love your channel, learned so much here. Thank you👋
That was a brilliant video. Well done!
I am soooo glad you posted a video!!!
I really do enjoy your videos... this one struck a chord as I frequently find myself chasing down 'rabbit holes'... your fault isolation technique was quite thorough! Eliminate what the problem is NOT and you will left with what the problem IS.. well done! 'Bit rot'... been quite a while since I heard that term 😁.. back in days of the 8086, chasing down faulty ram chips... dating myself a bit.
Just like me when I admit to reporting a bug to DEC on one of the library functions of the C compiler shipped as part of VAX VMS, and the wonders of beestings in ethernet replacing long serial cables to a variety of mini or mainframe computers.
Glad to see you back on youtube,really missed your vidoes.
m2 : )
Great video!
I am learning so much from watching you work!
I can't understand how you can have so little subscribers. You explain things so clearly and in so much detail. Really enjoy watching your content. Keep it up.
I just subscribed, but I'm 5 foot 11
@@miff227 Nice one lol
Great video. Always good to learn that those post code readouts are not a be all end all solution to a problem. I wonder how many MB's end up as E-waste due to these bios chip failures.
I had a bearbone PC placed under the table back in 2004, running on Pentium 4. One day I decided to clean the CPU fan but forgot to plug the fan's cable after I had done with the cleaning. The PC lived for another 6 months and finally gave up. IT was my first computer.
Great lesson,enjoyed that.
Great Video, You have skills my man!
Great job on the fix, not sure why but I really enjoy these videos.
One of the more interesting things that causes bit-flips are cosmic rays and more specifically - the lower energy particles they produce as they hit the upper atmosphere. These particles can then hit individual transistors and flip their state.
Well, that's done it. I've joined the channel on the basis of this video. A thank-you for the wealth of experience you are sharing with us.