Concealed Carry | Red Dot vs Iron Sights
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
- Looking for a product featured in this video? TH-cam prevents us from posting links. Head over to our website to find what you're looking for.
Check out our second channel Outside The Warehouse: / @outsidethewarehouse
Podcast Channel - / @cf_podcast
Facebook - / classicfirearm
Instagram - / classicfirearms
Twitter - / classicfirearm
Intro Song: "Issa Trap" by Mikey Geiger
I'd say its more common than most people think to not even use the sights at all. If someone is 4 feet from you..... just point it
Yeah at that distance things are happening too fast to see sights.
Point shooting is a real thing.
The military used to train at close range to just shoot from the hip like a cowboy in a dual.
yeah but you can also think about shooting like Elisjsha Dicken stopped, he was shooting at like 40 yards, and im pretty sure you could do better with red dot at that distance
I point shoot when secretly training for what I don’t want to happen.
Something I’d say about Sarah’s “run away a bit” strategy: She’s the only one of the three who looked like she actually *identified* her target before shooting it. Both of the guys just went in on the assumption that this is a drill to shoot something as fast as possible. Sarah’s approach is designed to use her extra second to decide whether she actually needs to shoot. I’d give her credit for being the least likely to mistakenly shoot someone who was not the threat they were initially thought to be. For the talk of being “target focused”, she’s the one who actually looked at the target first.
and ironically she doesn't use a dot lol
Glad to have Clint back. It is good to have someone who can talk about the situation.
Well done. As a retired LEO, I was trained in the use of iron sights and still see advantages on learning to use them in case the red dot fails. The advantage of using the red dot or iron sights during training and practice creates muscle memory for the "event" which research has shown almost always happens fast and close and you are unlikely to FOCUS on the sights of either kind. That muscle memory will help you line up your shot under stress.
Something worth mentioning for those of us with aging eyes, it becomes more difficult to focus on the front sight of iron sights. When you extend your weapon in a firing position, the front sight is now at an intermediate distance meaning, for tri-focals or progressive lenses, you are tilting your head back to get clarity for the middle distance which is something you won't do in a self defense encounter. Other advantages already noted, you can easily see an illuminated red dot with the distance portion of your glasses and place it on the target that you CAN focus on during practice and, possibly during an encounter. Most of us probably don't practice drawing from a concealed position enough as it is and that might help avoid the snag or at least let you experience what that feels like so you can adjust as needed. Just one person's opinion.
The irony that with all the advancements in compact and micro guns with the sole purpose of making them lighter and easier to conceal the end user community's response was to add as many accessories increasing weight, snag/ failure points, and size.
I totally agree with snag but how much weight can be attributed to this? Nothing. I don’t get that part.
Red dot for home defense, irons for conceal carry. As a wise man one said. “If you’re shooting someone at a distance that actually benefits from a red dot you better have a good lawyer.”
A home defense situation is more closer than a self defense situation out on the streets so a red dot for home defense is not necessary.
@@wavyboysean9433 Most gunfight distances, on the street for the average concealed carry person, is 0 to 5 yards, which is conversational distance, for robberies, muggings, and carjackings. Very close. Red dots on pistols at that distance, don't give you enough time to level your pistol to eye level. I think for competition, they work extremely well, with training.
What if u want or can only afford one gun
@@johnwick1178 A gun you can conceal carry can also be used for home defense obviously, but a bulky home defense gun with light and laser, red dot, etc can’t be comfortably concealed carried.
How about a church? Or store, or restaurant. You never know.
Personally... I'd use irons. No matter the firearm, you should be comfortable enough to use irons and be proficient. If you are, you can upgrade to any sight you want. For CCW, it helps mitigate being able to be noticed by someone since its a lower profile. As stated in the video, also less likely to snag (also depends on the irons you use).
"You should not be, you have iron sights. You'll be fine!" Hilarious, then him lauguing in the background 😂😅😂😅
Even though the vast majority of encounters occur in close quarters where you aren’t using any sights, I opted to buy a red dot for my CCW. The reason was the mass shootings that have happened at places like the mall in Indianapolis and the outlet center north of Dallas. If you have a gun in a public crowd like that, you may need to take out the shooter from a long distance (which is exactly what the guy did in Indianapolis-he took out the shooter not from 40 feet away, but from 40 YARDS! Amazing). I’d rather be over-equipped than under!
I used to be a big fan of running ONLY irons on pistols. With the advancements in the last 10 years I have a red dot on anything I carry now. Exception being pocket pistols. Took me awhile but damn I’m glad I made the switch.
Do another live stream Clint!
But what is the advantage of me having a red dot when my attacker is less than 7 yds away? One would assume its just point and shoot at that point.
TIP: put painter's tape over red dot and make a sharpie dot. Then train with both eyes open putting the sharpie dot over the target. Teaches muscle memory and two-eye shooting as well as picking up your red dot easier next time. Great for personal defense.
I went back to iron sight because i work in retail, the window gets so dusty after a week. I got tired of keep having to clean it so i went back to iron and i love it.
I don’t have a red dot. But, read they can fog up going from cold to hot environment.
Should i even bother to try red dot?
@@PonyFoot123 yes, always try something to form your own opinion. I could careless having an optic specifically on my edc if you know anything about self defense shooting distance, you quickly realize that you don’t need an optic. But that’s just my philosophy.
Clint has returned!
finally
nobody cares when sara is back
@@nunyabinness3574 I think Sara is cool and brings a good balance to Clint and Kaya.
@@nunyabinness3574 yeah but Clint, Matt and Alek are better than Sara and Kaya
It's going to come down to personal choice.🤷♂ But what ever you choose, train with it.👍
Tritium night sights. The ones on the sig p365 are fine. Aftermarket ones with orange front sight post are nice too.
I like this drill. Both the quick reaction and the deliberate sight acquisition. Never thought to train like that but a welcome idea for real world situations. Personally I look for the iron sights over the red dot on sidearms. Especially when you have a bright green one like Clint’s.
Law Enforcement draws typically from an easy holster outside the clothing. Spoken from experience. Drawing from concealed is by definition, harder. Another thought is maybe control the suspect by grabbing his left shoulder and hold it as you take one step back and shoot.
You all are such a good team, really makes your content enjoyable to watch.
Alec and Katie were better co host.
That is simply rude. These 3 were good@@mattgnewikow9072
LAZER 🔴
I was buying a new TV a few months back and a fellow from Utah was making small talk. Told him I was from a town right beside Charlotte, NC to which he replied "Oh you're near where Classic Firearms are located!". It's funny how that's how I discovered you guys lol
Carrying concealed is much different than open carrying like LEO. I get her argument. There is much less risk of a red dot to be snagged on anything while open carrying
Took a break when Kaydie left, glad to see you guys have re-added someone who can provide the female point of view for us ladies.
I'm a retired officer and I was involved in a deadly force situation and you really don't use any sights in the moment . It happens so quickly you just point and shoot. If you have time and distance I can see potentially a red dot could help.
On average happens in 3s. 3yrds, 3sec, 3shots fired.
Target focused, in and parallel to line of sight, for civilian ccw carrier. LEO is an entirely different beast.
For now I do solely irons on a carry gun. That may change one day with experience but I don’t find it needed on a carry gun right now. Also good reference to that Colion video. That’s a good experience people should watch.
It seems the closer you are, the less your sighting system matters. While close in like this is the most common scenario, we also need to be prepared for farther out. I'd like to see this drill done at varying distances to see what changes. Like 5, 10 and 20 yards, or more - try to drill like the guy in the mall, like 40 or 50 yards.
Biggest advantage is without a doubt SITUATIONAL AWARENESS… then absolute familiarity with your weapon… then practice point shooting.
RDS vs Irons.
Both require lots of practice & presentations to get proficient with them. RDS is better at target focus in intermediate and longer distances, up close can be neglible compared to irons.
Individual's eyes can really be a major factor. Aging eyes, astigmatisms and other eye issues are tremendous factors in what could be best.
An alternative or consideration could be XS Big Dot sights for close/intermediate targets for fast sight acquisition. They are a proven sighting system that are iron sights with the large Big Dot front sight being like and "analog" RDS.
Either way is still individual choice, and time training with both part of determining factor.
Just some food for thought.
I have glasses and for some reason I find it a lot easier to get on target much faster with iron sights. Getting my green dot into the tiny field-of-view takes more time than lining up the iron sights. Maybe I just need to practice more with the green dot.
I'm the opposite. I wear glasses and can pick up the dot faster than irons
Yes red dots need presentation practice as well. How much time did you put into learning your iron sights?
I would go with iron sights for edc because most self defense cases happen within 3-10 yards so if you can’t affectively use irons at 3-10 it’s no point in uses a gun… and your gonna be shooting quick so it will be hard to get the red dot back on target
Great Segway into video bc that’s exactly way buyers are thinking.
I think the point of le vs civilian scenarios is the fact that in le your more likely to have your gun drawn focused on the target before shooting while in civilian defensive shootings your likely to just draw and shoot quickly. Thats why comparing the two is prob not the best comparison imho. Red dots are great for target identification and certainly more accurate on precise shots but I prefer irons on a carry gun. Maybe it’s just years of shooting iron sights but I’m just a touch faster finding irons than I am finding a dot, I’ve tried training through it with tons of dry fire and range time but I’m gonna keep the dots on my range guns and irons on my ccw.
Agree! 👍👍
To Sarah's point, the draw stroke for LE officers is often times completely different from that of a civilian concealed carrying in the appendix and/or 3-5 o'clock position. In contrast, most, if not all LE have an owb safariland type holster, sometimes in a drop leg configuration, which is far easier to draw and clear garment. Just food for thought.
The argument was for shot placement initially, not necessarily drawing the weapon
@@doodadexactly
I carry a Ruger Max 9 with green laser. The laser adds very little weight and does not make the gun any larger, it fits in the same holster as before I got the laser.
these three are awesome to watch keep it up.
Love the references of all the information you were sharing
At the end, it’s still depends on personal preference
I love the drills, the banter and the overall content of this channel. I also love that Beetlejuice tattoo Sarah is sporting.
Finally Clint! Stop playing with us.
How about laser sight comparing to red dot and iron sights.
At distances that close, you are point-shooting and aren't really using your sights, red dot or not. The main benefit I've found from adding a red dot is training to maintain target-focus at more extended ranges and superimposing the dot, rather than staring at the front sight post. It takes a while to learn to resist the urge to hunt for the dot.
Lovin’ the tri-party presentation - great job folks.
Ensure you have backup irons with any red or green dot and train with both. Great video.
My concealed carry pistols are stock, bare bones firearms. No aftermarket stuff. My fancier toys for the range, ABSOLUTELY deck them out with the toys.
I like red dots but backup iron sights are a must.
I love the passive aggressive tension between Sarah and Kaya
Both... my Canik SC and Canik MC have a red dot but the sights co-witness. That way, if the red dot dies, I still have the iron sights. Of my Sig has a laser but this also matches up with the iron sights. Big fan of having a backup plan.
Great drill, Classic Firearm team, what's your thoughts on dropping straight back? It would seem moving to the left or right would make you a harder target than dropping straight back.
A few things that you have to remember about cops using a red dot
1. It's in a holster that can't be snagged
2. Cops typically draw their weapin primitivly so the red dot is already more aligned to their eye and ready to go (no searching for the dot in the window)
3. The second most common position a cop would be in using a red dot is behind some sort of cover pointing the dot in the direction of the threat which again they already have the dot in sight in the window and in that case it would be faster
That’s why I run the XS DXT2 big dot sights. Not looking for pin point accuracy but a really quick reference in a tight situation.
Good topic. I keep a simple System. Compact/Full Size - Get a Red Dot. Subcompact/Micro gun - No Red Dot
One thing training like this way louder! Even with ear pro was blown away how much so.
I always thought red dots belong on shortys but I've got an SS mr920 with a Trijicon Gen 2 ran co witness , I quickly learned to quit focusing on the dot and run the damn thing
I would say it's a preference thing, I would tend to think in fight situation most probably wouldn't even know if they use the sights or not.
Irons for me, so much faster for semi point shooting for me. Long range stuff it's an advantage but not enough for me. Simplicity is always most reliable!
It’s whatever you prefer I prefer a good pair or iorn sights like ameriglo HDs I pick them up better than the red dots when I’m training I got the glock19m came with HDs and ambi extended slide release and I threw my TLR1 HL light on there. Just also got my battle belt set up for training but with all that said I prefer red dots and back up sights on my AR platforms
Lemme bring the Dickens drill as a counter point to the close encounter argument
15:45 ok you brought it up haha
For CCW ill stick to iron sights. For home defense red dot
heres my thing at work i use iron sights cuz I'm in a smoke shop and distance isn't needed for red dot, when I'm out and about i do use red dot i carry cajun gun works cz p01 or floyds customs mp 2.0 or lantac ported glock 19
The most important factor is the distance to the target. I agree I with the young lady. She is speaking from a perspective of how a woman would be assaulted. In close quarter combat how effective is a red dot?
Finally Clint !!!!
"Makin my way downtown walkin fast faces pass And I'm homebound" Clint 2023
I’m a simple man I see Sara and I click 😩😩😩
I Will Say. I’m not going to be Tapping On Her Shoulder trying to get her Attention 😂. Great Video
Yo that elbow Clint threw on his first attack was good , unexpected lol
Another great video Clint. Just not the same without you on these videos. I'm gonna say it everything I see you on a video now.....soooooo glad your back.
So i have another use case for the red dot. I live in NJ which has some crazy qualification standards for CCP. 1 you need to qual with the gun you will be carrying, 2 you need to score even at 25yrds. So even if you dont need the red dot in a real defensive situation it certainly will help hit a target while being timed 25 yards away with a small micro compact.
Love the woman’s stand point man great way to get your point across
“I don’t know you! That’s my purse!!”
Thank god clint is back im so sick of kayak
Your mom isn’t
Great value version of Kaydi
Train to shoot from the hip for up close encounters, red dot or irons you might never get a chance to use either site.
I point shoot when secretly training for what I don’t want to happen. I use the Pact shot timer.
It’s a threat assessment. You need to evaluate your threat situation and pick the tool that best fits your personal needs, abilities, situation.
Me personally, I have a variety of guns and carry whatever fits my perceived needs.
Shot my cwp glock 48 for a few hours with iron sights and then my instructor gave me his glock 19 with a red dot sight. Shots were faster, more accurate, and i could follow up faster as well. I am of the belief that red dot sights are a better sight.
This was very entertaining and educational. Plus all three are very photographic.
Ultimately it’ll come down to muscle memory perfected with practice. Whatever you decide to use, know what needs to be done to be successful.
Any idea what iron sights Clint is using?
I was doing some drills yesterday with my full size gun with red dot and when I went back to my shield plus with irons while my other gun cooled off, I was so much faster and more accurate with my shield plus.
I’m a firearms instructor and key is to train with whatever you have , I recommend practicing with both because you might need to use someone’s gun as well and I’m sorry but I’m not pulling trigger until I see my dot in the window or my front sight on target because I’m not about to take an innocent life in accident.
Great points in this debate- thanks for making such interesting and watchable content. Props for the shout out to Colion Noir- agree 10/10.
20:59 Ladies! One option is a toe stomp when the attacker is behind you. It’s not devastating but can be useful to break away for the moment to access your equalizer.
I ran a course a few weeks ago using a red-dot and I shoot more accurate and more quickly with iron sights. Granted, some of that is reps put in, but for me when I’m under the clock I see irons very easily while I would lose the dot.
Good stuff guys n gal 👍
Thanks for the laughs too 😄 👌
If it’s 3 yds and beyond I might have enough time to use sights or dot. Anything inside that your pointing thumbs and firing.
I think it is VERY important that anyone who carries a handgun should learn how to "point shoot" up to 30ft
red dots all the way for us seniors !!!!
I do want to say that Sara’s third shot that she hit low looks like it would have been a liver shot so still pretty fatal
Guys can you do a top 5 gun companies? Say, top five handgun companies, top 5 hunting rifle companies, etc.
My red dot sometimes gets caught on my shirt when I draw with one hand from appendix. I found rolling the gun flat (level with the ground) would clear it pretty quickly. It happened often enough I practice it. Changes my draw stroke, but only adds a little bit of time to the draw to shot time. I started working on one handed draw because I often have a dog on the end of a leash and figured it was highly likely if I had to use the gun while walking the dogs I would not have the use of both hands. Don't have that issue when I carry at 4 or 430 for some reason. In addition, shooting at that distance you may *think* you are seeing a dot or a sight, but you are point shooting, IMO. Your first shots are happening before the gun is even up to eye level...again, IMO.
At that distance they shouldn't be.
Great video and confirms what my novice instincts were telling me.
@clint it would be interesting to see if you still say optics if you had to draw with only one hand. Can you do a video about that?
Always great videos. Love the interaction between you guys. What timer are you guys are using? One thing we have added to our training is the use of snap caps in our mags to practice dealing with possible malfunctions. For this, we load one another's magazines and will slip 1-3 snap caps in so when we encounter one of those you don't know when or where. If I am practicing on my own I will count out a magazines worth of ammo into a box or tray then drop in a snap cap and load blind or looking away. You can feel the difference when you encounter the snap cap after awhile but if you don't count rounds as you load you don't know where it is.
Red dots are the cheat code of real life shooting! And yes I have both iron and dot and they both serve there purposes at certain times and situations imo
What do you think about a red dot on the dovetail
Great video,good drills to try.
Do 2 to the body and 3rd to the head while creating disance
Love that shield, unfortunately when I got mine it was 4" or ported couldn't get the 4" ported 😢
How can you adjust the red dot site
I can see where a red dot would be pretty handy racking the slide!!
I use the thumb to lift the shirt. It's your strongest "finger". Keep your hand at a 90 and use the thumb straight up. Works best for me.