please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
@@heavnxbound "Why did God create the world not in the way that I would want?" "Because God saw that the Earth was good." If you can't understand the objection here then it's seriously alarming.
The insect-Rhinoceros analogy was really helpful to understand the problem with the evidential (probabilistic) argument of the 'problem of evil'. Thanks
David Wood should put out content like this on his second channel and continue what he is doing on his Acts17Apologetics channel because it has been fruitful for many years
What a great service this is! My deepest thanks to you guys. I'm not even upset with you for changing my intentions for this evening. It's a book. It will be there tomorrow.
What's stunning to think about is that God allows for evil at all. Heaven was perfect and unblemished and yet his perhaps greatest created being, Lucifer, was allowed to rebel and seek to overthrow God Himself. This all with God knowing he would do it and STILL creating him, as well as humanity, knowing we too would go our own way. This supports the concept that nothing can prevent His love and greatness, not even the rebellious creation itself. It reflects His perfectly unselfish nature and the fact that, in the end, He exhibits His glory in EVERYTHING.
I think that was part of his problem. Adam was last, the humans were so different than any other creature or creation because we were made in the image of God after the body had already been formed. So that goes to show that there is something spiritually different with humans than the angels. We were made in his image already yet the lie was "ye will be like God's knowing good and evil" I think we can find out his motives if we read the scripture closely.
God said to Cyrus, "I create evil." God creates evil for his own most holy purposes, which are always for our good. Nobody ever became a better person by getting a bigger house, a hotter wife, or a fatter paycheck. We become better people (if at all) when we endure suffering and evil. Evil changes us. It is the fire that tries the gold. Without suffering, this life would be meaningless. When I was in the hospital having my spine bolted back together, I realized that God slammed me into that truck just hard enough to tenderize my heart, just a little. It was a miracle for which I will always thank him. Evil is not the problem, it is the way home.
They're putting what I was thinking about this into sophisticated philosophical terms, but basically, yes, all arguments of why would God do this or that or allow that assume that we have access to omniscient knowledge like He does and the questioner kind of implies "if I was God I wouldn't do that," which is very arrogant. Why would you think you're capable of putting yourself in God's shoes? It severely lacks humility, and us not being able to know everything an omniscient being knows doesn't prove he doesn't exist. We think He does because of things we DO know that have been revealed to us and the historical evidence that backs it up. We dont claim to know everything about him or that we could wrap our small brains around his omniscience.
Catechism of the Catholic Church 309 : "If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. *Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question* : the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. *There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil* ". God bless you
Evangelium Productions Not a catholic myself, but there are many things about catholicism that I find attractive and powerful about it. Even though liturgy in any church can, at times, become old and stale, things like the liturgy and catechisms are often very thoughtful and powerful. Thanks for the encouragement brother!
@@kylexinye1990 Holy Communion which Catholics receive in Holy Mass miraculously turned into bloody flesh and then was tested by scientific experts to be a rare blood type AB. When subjected to blood type analysis, these miraculous remnants seem to indicate a Messianic AB blood type, which is consistent with similar studies on the Shroud of Turin. But the AB blood type is associated with universal receptivity (especially AB+) rather than universal donation. May the Good Lord direct all onto the right path Amen Our Lady Queen of Heaven and Earth Pray For Us Amen God Bless Take Care 😌👏🕊☘
All Praise To God My Lord and Saviour Yea, that's cool and whatever. I'm still your brother in Christ as a protestant, and again, while I may diasgree with you on some doctrinal issues, we are part of the same divine family of God, and that's a strong enough bond to erase any divisions. Blessings!
Jezeus Crisp So that is a fascinating question, one that I am thinking through right now, and I think it's got a complex answer. Intuitively I am disinclined to say that (a) God is bad at communicating (it seems odd that a maximally great being would be), or that (b) he would intentionally communicate confusing things to us (although I suppose you could say he had moralky sufficient reason for doing so, I wouldn't try and defend it). So, in actually answering this, I would say two things: first, I think what God wants from us is very simple, and that is to believe in his Son and in Christ's sacrifice and to enter into a restored relationship with Him. I believe that if you are seeking a relationship with Christ that this is what is most important, regardless of whether or not you're calvinist or post millenial or anything like this. Instead, I think of those who, today, first hear the gospel, and are tranformed by the power of Christ's love. Do they have a perfect understanding of everything about God? Of course not, but they are in a powerful loving eelationship with Him. So basically I would challenge the notion that having a perfect doctrinal structure is necessary. People throughout time have believed interesting things about God and Christ, but have also had meaningful relationships with Him. If it is a sin to believe incorrecr things about God (which I find highly unlikely), then surely God, in His infinite mercy, will forgive us of it. If we're truly seeking Him, I think that he is loving enough to understand us and work with us. That said, this brings about the question of how people who mean well and are in a loving relationship with Christ still think different things about him and sometimes vehemently disagree. I think there are a few things at work here. Firstly is personality. Think about it this way: a person who reads the book Lord of the Flies may take a different meaning from it than a person with a different personality who reads it. People with different life experiences understand things differently, and I think this is also one reason why having a church community is important, because we can all work wirh each other towards greater understanding of the truths found within God's word. The second, and I think major factor, is the falleness of man. We have willfully separated ourselves from Christ and God, and even when we do our best we can have a flawed understanding and be led astray. We are a mix of distorted creation and new creature through Christ, and in the same way that we still sin even though we have new hearts, it seems to me likely that even with the best intentions of understanding God's word, that we'll still misunderstand it. Anyhow, that's just some thoughts. I'm working on a theodicy for it though, as I want to have a really good, complete answer for people; I understand it's something that bothers them sometimes.
This may be stupid question but I'm genuinly curious why it's not asked more often: If god is omnipotent why doesn't he achieve all his goals (soul building, free will etc.) without suffering? Usually the arguments go along the lines of: "God allows evil X because of good Y that would arise from it" Or as in this lecture: "God has good reasons of allowing evil X to exist and we don't need to be aware of them. But they exist" Why couldn't he achieve those reasons without allowing evil? I just cannot wrap my head around this.
You mentioned free will in parentheses. that’s a logical contradiction. It has absolutely nothing to do with His power. He gave us free will and we can do whatever we want no matter how evil it is but there are consequences. It’s not a fault in His power. He could take away our free will but He keeps it because He’s loving. If we didn’t have free will we can’t GENUINELY love Him. He would force us to love which isn’t real love. God bless you!
"If god is omnipotent why doesn't he achieve all his goals (soul building, free will etc.) without suffering?" - Certain goods cannot be achieved without suffering and evil. For example, forgiveness can only exist if evil exists, since the absence of evil would entail the absence of anything that needs forgiving. Many things that provide great instances of soul building also require evil and suffering, for example self-sacrificial love cannot exist unless significant sacrifice is possible, and significant sacrifice entails some kind of suffering. Being omnipotent does not mean God can do anything, as there are things that cannot be done regardless of how much power you have. Some things are impossible and cannot be instantiated in reality. Another example of this would be the fact that it is impossible for force someone to freely do something. Hence, if God creates creatures with free will, he cannot force them to freely choose to do good all the time.
@@jackplumbridge2704 wow. We have an archaeologist here. Anyways. I don't buy your argument. What it boils down to is: evil X is good actually because a good Y comes from it. For example a starving mother wouldn't be able to sacrifice her life to feed her children. Or father wouldn't be able to forgive the killer of his daughter. Why are these things good? How are they good. In what way? (please focus on these in your answer) Why is forgiveness good actually? Isn't justice better? Why is sacrifice good actually? Isn't fullfillment better? And if you answer "they are good because they make the person doing it better. For example if you don't forgive, you boil the resentment inside you and actually poison yourself. And if you do forgive, you train yourself in being a more compassionate and fair." Then why didn't God make this traits inherent to being a human? He gave us a bunch of inherent stuff. We (almost) all inherently want to procreate, to keep ourselves alive, to be acknowledged by another humans. These are all inherent by just being human. Why isn't "fairness" and "compassion" just like these? Why do we need to suffer to gain them instead of being born with them like with these other traits?
@@KillmanPit " I don't buy your argument." - Well my argument is logically sound, so your personal incredulity doesn't do anything to refute it. "What it boils down to is: evil X is good actually because a good Y comes from it." - No, that isn't the argument. No one is arguing that evil is good, that is a silly strawman you have constructed. "Why are these things good? How are they good. In what way?" - You need me to explain to you why forgiveness is a good thing? I think you are being deliberately obtuse. "Why is forgiveness good actually? Isn't justice better? Why is sacrifice good actually? Isn't fullfillment better?" - Both justice and forgiveness are good. In some circumstances forgiveness is better, and in others justice is better. Ultimately, forgiveness and reconciliation is better. And self-sacrificial love is a great good because it is the ultimate manifestation of love. "These are all inherent by just being human. Why isn't "fairness" and "compassion" just like these? Why do we need to suffer to gain them instead of being born with them like with these other traits?" - You don't need to suffer to obtain all goods. Suffering is required to obtain some goods, as i have already explained. You appear to be a hedonist, someone who believes that avoidance of pain and the pursuit of pleasure is the greatest possible good. That is an incredibly narcissistic, animalistic, and primitive view of life. Virtually no one is going to agree with you on that score, because virtually everyone recognises that there are more important things in life than pleasure.
@@jackplumbridge2704 @Jack Plumbridge "my argument is logically sound". My dude. You haven't presented any argument. Or at least I haven't noticed any premises or conclusions. If that's the case please show them to my silly silly mind. I thought we were having informal conversation not a formal debate. Please chill. "Silly strawman" please explain to me how "his daughter was killed. Which is bad. But now he can exercise forgiveness which is good." is different from what I said. Yes. Please explain it to me how is forgiveness good. I'm not being obtuse. I'm curious how do you define good. If you are not willing to explain it, I will consider you avoiding actual discussion. Why is forgiveness and reconciliation better than justice. Please explain. I'm not a hedonist so I will not entertain fighting against the ad hominem. Please cut down on these by the way. Please give example of a good that cannot be just imbued into us without having to experience pain. For example we can be inherently forgiving without ever needing to forgive. We can be inherently generous without having to donate anything etc.
Jezeus Crisp Jesus loves you.! if I said I didn’t know Jesus Christ I’d be a liar like you. But I do know him and have for 45 years since I was 19 years old. You really need to talk to Jesus about this. He’s your only hope for eternal life and happiness. Pray to him now and you will begin to know him too.
@Jezeus Crisp "I am happily married and have children I love who love me...." How do you know they love you? You have faith in this thing so called "love"?.... which is no more then the action of some chemicals in someone's brain?
Jezeus Crisp I’m glad you made a better life for yourself. Stay the course. God has blessed you even though you don’t see it. I was homeless and 15 when my mom and abusive step dad divorced. Mine is a long history of struggle but now I am a father of 4. One’s a west point grad another technical college grad. One is married and a happy mother of 4 and the fourth just got engaged. Jesus has been there all the time for me through the good and the bad.. At age 18 I began to question the existence of God. So One day I simply asked him if he is real. Why does anything exist? Why isn’t there just nothing at all? How did things come to be? Where did God get his beginning? Is God eternal without beginning or end? Does he care for me? These are questions to which the Bible has logical answers. These answers are evidence of the supernatural nature of scriptures. But these questions must be asked and they must be directed toward God. He will show himself real to the humble and honest inquirer. Seek and you shall find.
Jezeus Crisp You have no reason to be defensive. No one forced you to believe in the books you studied, you made the choice yourself. In the same way no one forced me to believe God’s Word or His testimony of His Son. I made the choice. I appeal to reason not emotion just as you do. Evil is present and sin is real. What if the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ? Does that make God a mean guy for trying to reconcile people to himself through the redemptive death and resurrection of his Son? God has placed before everyone an open invitation and no one is coerced to receive it. Since you obviously refuse to receive it (at least for now) I can move on to others to see if they are interested. I get no pay for offering this free information. Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message? ...
@Jezeus Crisp Be real man. Sometimes you don't. You keep that hatred, and Jesus was the only person who gives the way out of that also. And He didn't even talk about venting, but giving a higher reason, which is that you, with all your wrong doings have been forgiven by your father in heaven.
This one I found much more interesting than I thought. After watching this, I do agree that evil doesn't make God unlikely to exist. At least depending on how God is viewed. Looks like in order to make the argument from evil more effective, someone or some group of people would have to determine the best or true moral system and evaluate God based on that.
Be encouraged, brother (or sister). God has already given us His best and true moral system. We would never evaluate Him by any other standard. He evaluates us by His standard. It's what He called His ways (His behavior) in Psalm 119: 1-3. The law of God is kept in heaven above and will be kept when He and His Son descend on the day of the Lord. It's what is defined as righteousness (right behavior). See Matthew 19: 16-17, Revelation 22: 14, Romans 8: 5-8, and Psalm 119:160, and Ecclesiasties 12: 13.
@@encounteringjack5699 Yes, brother. We do. It's called the law of God. It was and is the behavior of Jesus Christ. It's explained and instructed for us to practice and walk in from Genesis to Revelation.
You aRe wHat y0u think i am. I still think Kingdom In Context should answer this since I’ve only read a tiny bit of the Bible. Here’s a possible idea though. From I’ve heard there’s poetic stories in the Bible. What if this is supposed to be poetic or some analogy. An analogy of two people, Adam and Eve being just characters and not people God actually created? I guess if it explicitly says that God created them then maybe it was still used as part of an analogy or something. Just a thought. I’m not sure about Adam and Eve not existing. At least as someone who haven’t read the book, it seems possible that Adam and Eve weren’t actually human, but maybe a similar type of species. Like chimps or maybe Adam and Eve potentially maybe the beginning of the ancestor species that had the branched into humans and apes. Just another thought. I could be wrong of course but it seems plausible. I’ll have to read the Bible to be sure.
You aRe wHat y0u think i am. Man and woman doesn’t necessarily have to be about humans. The words man and woman refer to the sexes and/or the two primary genders. So it’s not at all far fetched to say that it could be the case that Adam and Eve aren’t human. I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you say “human evolution won’t be a theory”. Are you talking about the theory of evolution as it applies to humans? If that’s the case then I don’t know why that would or wouldn’t be the case. I’d have to read the Bible for that.
God uses our suffering to make us perfect, His grace carries us trough every challenge and trial, but we will grow in strenght and faith. Atheism is escapeism. Escape from moral accountability and potential suffering. Unmoral behavior may result in great richess or a prolonged life, but in the end, WE DIE. „Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.“ Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
This would be true if it wasn't so blatantly false. In most cases suffering leads to more suffering. For example; some one who abuses children physically, mentally, sexually, was often abused as a child themselves. Children born is struggling house holds often end up in prison and leading broken lives and multiple children out of wedlock that follow the same pattern. In most cases suffering only leads to more suffering.
astrol4b unborn children cannot decide what is good or evil, therefore are not judged. God saves their soul and gives them life in Heaven. If you knew God, you would know that He does not judge unfairly! Child murder aka abortion is absolutly evil and wrong. We should fight against it at all costs. But this position is not very popular nowadays. We proclaim that every man is damned to hell but he can be saved trough faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Its the one and only way.
Jacob Lee many people are born in a bad evil family. In fact, in the eyes of God we all are born into the wrong family - the family of Satan. Satan does not want you to know or seek God, all the devil wants is to multiply your suffering, suck you dry and then kill you and damn your soul to hell. When we are in desperate situations, we are more open to the loving invitation of God; the gospel of peace, which is: God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to die on our behalf. Trough faith in Jesus name and His resurrection, we are saved. It is a spiritual rebirth. Every man has body, soul, and spirit. The body is your flesh. The soul is the real, everlasting you. The spirit is what gives you life. Our spirit is corrupted, which is why we die. But God can give us His Holy Spirit when we accept His Son for salvation and repent, so that even after death, we will be declared righteous before the throne of judgement.
Uses insect as object in a fantastic argument and doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to segue into god-like butterfly effect understanding. Come on D wood 😉 love you bro! Thanks for the directions to that guy with the salvation
1:46:00 That was just a red herring on the argument. There's no reason to assume that the proposition "jesus said to be the son of god and then rose from the dead" is logically equivalent to "jesus was the son of god". Also, that it's unreasonable to assume that a resurrection account is not proof of a resurrection and that a belief account is proof of a belief, the two claims have vastly different burdens of evidence.
@@whatsinaname691 " it’s a good thing that there is enough evidence to bridge both gaps" None at all. There's not even evidence on how the resurrection account was originated, much less about it's reliability. After all we have NO witnesses and all sources are inter-dependent.
@@OsaSapere No witnesses? Are you mad? All interconnected? Have you read them? My goodness, you sound like a Richard Carrier worshiping nutjob not like somebody who’s done their homework.
@@whatsinaname691 No, I'm not mad, I've read the fine print in the research. All gospels are HEARSAY, no witnesses there. Anonymous texts that for no reason whatsoever were attributed to famous characters. And yes, all interDEPENDENT (not inter-connected, two different things there, as all dependent on each other, by copying the text from each other for instance or by both relying from a single original lost source, these are both examples of dependence). And these aren't "carrier" ideas, these are mainstream agreed facts from literary criticism of the bible. As for non-biblical sources, none of the sources were from people in the time and place of the supposed facts, therefore they are based on hearsay, hearsay that we have an excellent candidate original source for: christian oral tradition.
@@OsaSapere I don’t care what the hyper skeptical rabid atheists of NT scholarship say. You take their standards of authorship to anything else in that time period and all books would become anonymous. It was common for authors to write about themselves in 3rd person, and John saying “the disciple Jesus loved” was the closest to just absolute authorship you’ll find outside of a signed letter. The books have been consistently assigned to their specific authors without error in every ancient reference we have to them and that discounts what we know about the people or the internal hints within the books to their specific author, such as Mark’s focus on Peter, Matthew’s awareness of money, Luke’s use of Mary as witness, etc… Literally just don’t take the most hardliner stance on everything that has the word “bible” associated with it and you end up with J. Warner Wallace, not Bart Ehrman.
The analogy from Nelson Pike is interesting, but I would really flinch from using that in conversation, personally. Most people, when they consider the problem of evil, are thinking about horrid things like pedophilia. I think people would feel the argument makes child rape a sort of medicine.
@Jonathan Soko Holy Communion which Catholics receive in Holy Mass miraculously turned into bloody flesh and then was tested by scientific experts to be a rare blood type AB. When subjected to blood type analysis, these miraculous remnants seem to indicate a Messianic AB blood type, which is consistent with similar studies on the Shroud of Turin. But the AB blood type is associated with universal receptivity (especially AB+) rather than universal donation. May the Good Lord direct all onto the right path Amen Our Lady Queen of Heaven and Earth Pray For Us Amen God Bless Take Care 😌👏🕊☘
Seems like David’s objection to Rowe’s argument also be used by naturalists to object to the fine tuning argument. If there were naturalistic reasons for fine tuning, would we expect to be aware of what those reasons are? If the answer is “no” then that undermines our ability to assess the comparative likelihood of fine tuning under the two hypothesis. I still think fine tuning is evidence for god, and apparently gratuitous suffering is evidence against god.
If suffering is evidentially true and naturalism highly probable, then we are clearly caught up in world where we are most likely to suffer and little chance of avoiding it. Unless you're a theist and believe God could be persuaded to assist us to step off this unpleasant roundabout of suffering and death. Of course, the sooner we're dead, the sooner the suffering will be over. Unless, of course, you think there is something intrinsically valuable about being human that should be treasured - either by God or man.
logosjohn1 Now you are just plain lying. I clearly said I want evidence. I only want evidence. You saying I don’t is dishonest of you. Empty tomb? How does this demonstrate anything? How do we investigate the claim of an empty tomb? We only have a story claiming this - where is the evidence?
Henson SF Do you really want evidence? put your money where your mouth is and order the book Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_zvBhFbBDNPJCF
so, it seems to me that he answer to logical problem of evil is that you believe that god had purposes that he needed to get to and that he couldn't make them happen miraculously, but had to use evil instead. You guys are sure that you are christian? Doesn't really seem an omnipotent to me.
All of this is assuming that God is allowing free will. Of course God could just overwhelm all human choice to achieve his purposes, but omnipotence doesn't include logical contradictions. It may be that a world with all of the coinciding factors God wants, including free will, must necessarily contain evil in order to not contain a logical contradiction. There's nothing wrong with that line of reasoning
@@elijahnegron337 there's no contradiction in achieving through a miracle what would have happened anyway through phisical necessity, also in light of so-called free will. So, no, I'm not asking for that which is contradictory, I'm just pointing to the obvious fact that evil in this case is deemed to be just a tool when one says that god is justified to cause evil to gain a greater good, and that a miracle is another available tool at disposal. What's wrong with that line of reasoning, in other words, is that it has god FORCED to choose evil as a tool not having miracles as an alternative. Take a biblical example: the flood. He could just have made disappear instantaneously all the people of the earth, instead he choose the evil option of drowning them to death, making innocent children suffer. Or the killing of the Amalekites, where he choose to order the hebrews to murder rather than having everyone in the country die in their sleep. Add to that the *fact* that there's no such a thing as a will free from the deterministic laws of neurochemistry and the point is entirely moot. This line of reasoning is fractally wrong AND not in line with christian theology.
Occhams razor anyone? Fact: Horrible things happen. Assumption: God is all mighty. Assumption: God is all good. These things don’t add up so, A) one assumption is wrong B) see my intricate thesis
If God doesn't exist, than Jesus can't be God by definition, so it doesn't matter whether He affirms the Old One or not, but also if He isn't God, He didn't rose from the dead.
The argument from evil, was never a good argument. It is by far the least convincing argument in the Athiest arsenal, and seems to just boil down to, "If there is a God why ain't I him?"
I'm a Christian and I think there is some weight to the argument. If not, why are there so many books on the subject? ....including the genius Clive S Lewis
@@ericfisher1360 It's the only convincing argument the atheist has, imo. Many Christians struggle with it at one point or another unless it hasn't hit home for them yet. I get your point, though.
Princess Rainbow Crap! Haha Where's that, Australia or Russia? I don't know my time zones lol Edit: I see your thumbnail better now, I'm going to guess Japan? 🤔😁
This is not and never has been heaven. This is a place between heaven and hell God created so we could directly experience good and evil, suffering, pain, and joy, so that we can fully understand what our actions can do to one another and using free will we can decide which path to take.
The Bible teaches that earth is our home, not a temporary testing ground. That's why we await God to bring new creation / the new Heavens and new Earth. So we Could live eternally in an unfallen cosmos/earth
please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
He didn't say "no one in philosophy takes the argument from evil seriously". At that point, he was talking about the logical argument from evil, not the evidential argument (Bayesian or otherwise).
@@bens.664 the logical argument is impossible to defend. There is no way to prove that it is logically impossible that God has morally sufficient reason to allow evil. That's why the only arguments taken seriously by serious contemporary philosophers are the probabilistic arguments.
This was very helpful in understanding what skeptical theism actually posits. I know Randall Rauser (the atheist) responds to it that it would entail we should be complete moral skeptics, but I don't think that follows from making the modest claim that 'it wouldn't be the case that if God had reasons, that we'd always be aware of those reasons.'
God did not create evil per se as it is an action, not some physical thing. He made humans and Satan, which brought about evil, which He allowed so e could exercise our free will. This is a rather basic argument, did you even watch the video or look into it?
@@caos1925 You could say that evil is actually a lack of good in the same way darkness is the lack of light. So he didn't create evil. Also, whoever sees this: the Isaiah 45 verse which means/ is translated "calamity". Plus, the other commenter "Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior" also puts forth a valid question considering "evil" cannot be when you take God out of the equation due to His nature being "good"-ness itself. May God bless you all and bring all of His sheep to saving knowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord God and Saviour. Whosoever believes that He was crucified and took the wrath of God from them personally onto Himself due to their sins, was buried and resurrected on Sunday shall not perish but WILL have everlasting life and may have it in full. John 3v16-18 and also 10v10. Just as He promised in Scriptures.
when he says that, tic toc, time to rock, believe me It's so annoying and too teenager like. it sounds like he is some kind of unstable, attention seeking teenager
God has given us free will. Some people choose to do good, others evil. Whether the evil comes from the interference of the devil or the basic selfishness (original sin) of man is debatable. In many circumstances it is probably a combination of the two. Imagine how boring life would be if God didn't give us free will, if he forced us to do what he wanted all the time. We might be described as little robots. Imagine how glorious life might have been if man had never rebelled against God. Free will and obedience to God are not mutually exclusive. We humans could have done both. We just chose not to. God doesn't promise that those who believe in him will have no problems, sickness, poverty, pain or sadness. In fact, he promises that he makes the rain to fall equally on both the just and the unjust. He doesn't promise that every bad thing happens for a reason (as some kind of cosmic punishment for sin), but he does promise that he can make good come out of it. As for diseases, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, and other natural disasters. They are very tragic, but perhaps a natural consequence of an imperfect world. The question I've wondered more about in my life is why does God intervene in some circumstances and not in others. There are miracles that happen every day, but our jaded society has a hard time seeing them. My own family have experienced several miraculous rescues over multiple generations. Is it because we have remained faithful? I look forward to having my questions answered someday. But I'm confident that no other philosophy or religion better explains good and evil, and the many intricate nuances of this world than Christianity.
Lisa please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
I'm to the point where I'll watch anything David Wood has to present. His content is great.
Thanks!
Dr. Wood, I watch your videos on Acts17Apologetics and I love them so please PLEASE make a series on the problem of evil
please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo
ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
@@frankchico69 why did you choose to copy and paste this giant comment under mine?
Sean Johnson a reply on why evil exists a theological argument thought you might be ok with it
@@frankchico69 Cool, cool
Christianity can't be true because Jesus didn't have a flying donkey.
Although there was some heavy academic philosophy, it was very fun. I appreciate David's effort to break it down for us.
athiest: why didn't god create the way i wanted?
genesis : god saw what he created and saw that it was good
@@commentfreely5443 What’s your objection here?
@@heavnxbound "Why did God create the world not in the way that I would want?"
"Because God saw that the Earth was good."
If you can't understand the objection here then it's seriously alarming.
The insect-Rhinoceros analogy was really helpful to understand the problem with the evidential (probabilistic) argument of the 'problem of evil'. Thanks
David Wood should put out content like this on his second channel and continue what he is doing on his Acts17Apologetics channel because it has been fruitful for many years
He has a second channel?
@@blanktrigger8863 th-cam.com/users/DavidWoodVideos
His backup channel
@@blanktrigger8863 Now he has 4
What a great service this is! My deepest thanks to you guys. I'm not even upset with you for changing my intentions for this evening. It's a book. It will be there tomorrow.
What's stunning to think about is that God allows for evil at all. Heaven was perfect and unblemished and yet his perhaps greatest created being, Lucifer, was allowed to rebel and seek to overthrow God Himself. This all with God knowing he would do it and STILL creating him, as well as humanity, knowing we too would go our own way. This supports the concept that nothing can prevent His love and greatness, not even the rebellious creation itself. It reflects His perfectly unselfish nature and the fact that, in the end, He exhibits His glory in EVERYTHING.
I think that was part of his problem. Adam was last, the humans were so different than any other creature or creation because we were made in the image of God after the body had already been formed. So that goes to show that there is something spiritually different with humans than the angels. We were made in his image already yet the lie was "ye will be like God's knowing good and evil" I think we can find out his motives if we read the scripture closely.
nonsensical fairytales
@@bens.664 Nonsensical comment
@@CedanyTheAlaskan the story of adam and eve - matter fact the whole bible is nonsense
@@bens.664 Please defend that claim.
BTW, This is Cedany. This is my main account
Thank you for this video! Great job :) I would love to watch a series on the problem of evil from David Wood.
Appreciate the discussion, was informative. 👍👍👍
I really like Wood's breakdown of the Bayesian argument from evil.
Where can I read David Woods thesis?
Please put together some videos on this subject. Thank you!
This was an excellent session. Thank you David great to hear you address this topic.
Amazing. Thank you CC for having him here
I really enjoyed learning from this! 🙏🏻
Fantastic!
God said to Cyrus, "I create evil." God creates evil for his own most holy purposes, which are always for our good. Nobody ever became a better person by getting a bigger house, a hotter wife, or a fatter paycheck. We become better people (if at all) when we endure suffering and evil. Evil changes us. It is the fire that tries the gold. Without suffering, this life would be meaningless. When I was in the hospital having my spine bolted back together, I realized that God slammed me into that truck just hard enough to tenderize my heart, just a little. It was a miracle for which I will always thank him. Evil is not the problem, it is the way home.
They're putting what I was thinking about this into sophisticated philosophical terms, but basically, yes, all arguments of why would God do this or that or allow that assume that we have access to omniscient knowledge like He does and the questioner kind of implies "if I was God I wouldn't do that," which is very arrogant. Why would you think you're capable of putting yourself in God's shoes? It severely lacks humility, and us not being able to know everything an omniscient being knows doesn't prove he doesn't exist. We think He does because of things we DO know that have been revealed to us and the historical evidence that backs it up. We dont claim to know everything about him or that we could wrap our small brains around his omniscience.
How did I not know this interview happened? Now if only David met David from Christ's Forgiveness Ministries!
David is a noble man. God bless you all.
@Morgh123
Define noble .
Wow I love it keep on
Catechism of the Catholic Church 309 :
"If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. *Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question* : the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. *There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil* ".
God bless you
Evangelium Productions Not a catholic myself, but there are many things about catholicism that I find attractive and powerful about it. Even though liturgy in any church can, at times, become old and stale, things like the liturgy and catechisms are often very thoughtful and powerful.
Thanks for the encouragement brother!
@@kylexinye1990 Holy Communion which Catholics receive in Holy Mass miraculously turned into bloody flesh and then was tested by scientific experts to be a rare blood type AB. When subjected to blood type analysis, these miraculous remnants seem to indicate a Messianic AB blood type, which is consistent with similar studies on the Shroud of Turin. But the AB blood type is associated with universal receptivity (especially AB+) rather than universal donation. May the Good Lord direct all onto the right path Amen Our Lady Queen of Heaven and Earth Pray For Us Amen God Bless Take Care 😌👏🕊☘
All Praise To God My Lord and Saviour Yea, that's cool and whatever. I'm still your brother in Christ as a protestant, and again, while I may diasgree with you on some doctrinal issues, we are part of the same divine family of God, and that's a strong enough bond to erase any divisions. Blessings!
@Jezeus Crisp people dont want to know truth that's the issue, they want to be God.
Jezeus Crisp So that is a fascinating question, one that I am thinking through right now, and I think it's got a complex answer. Intuitively I am disinclined to say that (a) God is bad at communicating (it seems odd that a maximally great being would be), or that (b) he would intentionally communicate confusing things to us (although I suppose you could say he had moralky sufficient reason for doing so, I wouldn't try and defend it).
So, in actually answering this, I would say two things: first, I think what God wants from us is very simple, and that is to believe in his Son and in Christ's sacrifice and to enter into a restored relationship with Him. I believe that if you are seeking a relationship with Christ that this is what is most important, regardless of whether or not you're calvinist or post millenial or anything like this. Instead, I think of those who, today, first hear the gospel, and are tranformed by the power of Christ's love. Do they have a perfect understanding of everything about God? Of course not, but they are in a powerful loving eelationship with Him. So basically I would challenge the notion that having a perfect doctrinal structure is necessary. People throughout time have believed interesting things about God and Christ, but have also had meaningful relationships with Him. If it is a sin to believe incorrecr things about God (which I find highly unlikely), then surely God, in His infinite mercy, will forgive us of it. If we're truly seeking Him, I think that he is loving enough to understand us and work with us.
That said, this brings about the question of how people who mean well and are in a loving relationship with Christ still think different things about him and sometimes vehemently disagree. I think there are a few things at work here. Firstly is personality. Think about it this way: a person who reads the book Lord of the Flies may take a different meaning from it than a person with a different personality who reads it. People with different life experiences understand things differently, and I think this is also one reason why having a church community is important, because we can all work wirh each other towards greater understanding of the truths found within God's word. The second, and I think major factor, is the falleness of man. We have willfully separated ourselves from Christ and God, and even when we do our best we can have a flawed understanding and be led astray. We are a mix of distorted creation and new creature through Christ, and in the same way that we still sin even though we have new hearts, it seems to me likely that even with the best intentions of understanding God's word, that we'll still misunderstand it.
Anyhow, that's just some thoughts. I'm working on a theodicy for it though, as I want to have a really good, complete answer for people; I understand it's something that bothers them sometimes.
This may be stupid question but I'm genuinly curious why it's not asked more often:
If god is omnipotent why doesn't he achieve all his goals (soul building, free will etc.) without suffering?
Usually the arguments go along the lines of: "God allows evil X because of good Y that would arise from it"
Or as in this lecture: "God has good reasons of allowing evil X to exist and we don't need to be aware of them. But they exist"
Why couldn't he achieve those reasons without allowing evil? I just cannot wrap my head around this.
You mentioned free will in parentheses. that’s a logical contradiction. It has absolutely nothing to do with His power. He gave us free will and we can do whatever we want no matter how evil it is but there are consequences. It’s not a fault in His power. He could take away our free will but He keeps it because He’s loving. If we didn’t have free will we can’t GENUINELY love Him. He would force us to love which isn’t real love.
God bless you!
"If god is omnipotent why doesn't he achieve all his goals (soul building, free will etc.) without suffering?" - Certain goods cannot be achieved without suffering and evil. For example, forgiveness can only exist if evil exists, since the absence of evil would entail the absence of anything that needs forgiving.
Many things that provide great instances of soul building also require evil and suffering, for example self-sacrificial love cannot exist unless significant sacrifice is possible, and significant sacrifice entails some kind of suffering.
Being omnipotent does not mean God can do anything, as there are things that cannot be done regardless of how much power you have. Some things are impossible and cannot be instantiated in reality.
Another example of this would be the fact that it is impossible for force someone to freely do something.
Hence, if God creates creatures with free will, he cannot force them to freely choose to do good all the time.
@@jackplumbridge2704 wow. We have an archaeologist here. Anyways. I don't buy your argument. What it boils down to is: evil X is good actually because a good Y comes from it. For example a starving mother wouldn't be able to sacrifice her life to feed her children. Or father wouldn't be able to forgive the killer of his daughter.
Why are these things good? How are they good. In what way? (please focus on these in your answer)
Why is forgiveness good actually? Isn't justice better? Why is sacrifice good actually? Isn't fullfillment better?
And if you answer "they are good because they make the person doing it better. For example if you don't forgive, you boil the resentment inside you and actually poison yourself. And if you do forgive, you train yourself in being a more compassionate and fair." Then why didn't God make this traits inherent to being a human? He gave us a bunch of inherent stuff. We (almost) all inherently want to procreate, to keep ourselves alive, to be acknowledged by another humans. These are all inherent by just being human. Why isn't "fairness" and "compassion" just like these? Why do we need to suffer to gain them instead of being born with them like with these other traits?
@@KillmanPit " I don't buy your argument." - Well my argument is logically sound, so your personal incredulity doesn't do anything to refute it.
"What it boils down to is: evil X is good actually because a good Y comes from it." - No, that isn't the argument. No one is arguing that evil is good, that is a silly strawman you have constructed.
"Why are these things good? How are they good. In what way?" - You need me to explain to you why forgiveness is a good thing?
I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
"Why is forgiveness good actually? Isn't justice better? Why is sacrifice good actually? Isn't fullfillment better?" - Both justice and forgiveness are good. In some circumstances forgiveness is better, and in others justice is better.
Ultimately, forgiveness and reconciliation is better.
And self-sacrificial love is a great good because it is the ultimate manifestation of love.
"These are all inherent by just being human. Why isn't "fairness" and "compassion" just like these? Why do we need to suffer to gain them instead of being born with them like with these other traits?" - You don't need to suffer to obtain all goods. Suffering is required to obtain some goods, as i have already explained.
You appear to be a hedonist, someone who believes that avoidance of pain and the pursuit of pleasure is the greatest possible good.
That is an incredibly narcissistic, animalistic, and primitive view of life.
Virtually no one is going to agree with you on that score, because virtually everyone recognises that there are more important things in life than pleasure.
@@jackplumbridge2704 @Jack Plumbridge "my argument is logically sound". My dude. You haven't presented any argument. Or at least I haven't noticed any premises or conclusions. If that's the case please show them to my silly silly mind. I thought we were having informal conversation not a formal debate. Please chill.
"Silly strawman" please explain to me how "his daughter was killed. Which is bad. But now he can exercise forgiveness which is good." is different from what I said.
Yes. Please explain it to me how is forgiveness good. I'm not being obtuse. I'm curious how do you define good. If you are not willing to explain it, I will consider you avoiding actual discussion.
Why is forgiveness and reconciliation better than justice. Please explain.
I'm not a hedonist so I will not entertain fighting against the ad hominem. Please cut down on these by the way.
Please give example of a good that cannot be just imbued into us without having to experience pain. For example we can be inherently forgiving without ever needing to forgive. We can be inherently generous without having to donate anything etc.
Is there anyway to read his academic work?
I believe in God perfectly good. He has made himself known in Jesus Christ.
Jezeus Crisp Jesus loves you.! if I said I didn’t know Jesus Christ I’d be a liar like you. But I do know him and have for 45 years since I was 19 years old. You really need to talk to Jesus about this. He’s your only hope for eternal life and happiness. Pray to him now and you will begin to know him too.
@Jezeus Crisp "I am happily married and have children I love who love me...." How do you know they love you? You have faith in this thing so called "love"?.... which is no more then the action of some chemicals in someone's brain?
Jezeus Crisp I’m glad you made a better life for yourself. Stay the course. God has blessed you even though you don’t see it. I was homeless and 15 when my mom and abusive step dad divorced. Mine is a long history of struggle but now I am a father of 4. One’s a west point grad another technical college grad. One is married and a happy mother of 4 and the fourth just got engaged. Jesus has been there all the time for me through the good and the bad.. At age 18 I began to question the existence of God. So One day I simply asked him if he is real. Why does anything exist? Why isn’t there just nothing at all? How did things come to be? Where did God get his beginning? Is God eternal without beginning or end? Does he care for me? These are questions to which the Bible has logical answers. These answers are evidence of the supernatural nature of scriptures. But these questions must be asked and they must be directed toward God. He will show himself real to the humble and honest inquirer. Seek and you shall find.
Jezeus Crisp You have no reason to be defensive. No one forced you to believe in the books you studied, you made the choice yourself. In the same way no one forced me to believe God’s Word or His testimony of His Son. I made the choice. I appeal to reason not emotion just as you do. Evil is present and sin is real. What if the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ? Does that make God a mean guy for trying to reconcile people to himself through the redemptive death and resurrection of his Son? God has placed before everyone an open invitation and no one is coerced to receive it. Since you obviously refuse to receive it (at least for now) I can move on to others to see if they are interested. I get no pay for offering this free information.
Isaiah 53:1
Who has believed our message? ...
@Jezeus Crisp
Be real man. Sometimes you don't. You keep that hatred, and Jesus was the only person who gives the way out of that also. And He didn't even talk about venting, but giving a higher reason, which is that you, with all your wrong doings have been forgiven by your father in heaven.
This one I found much more interesting than I thought. After watching this, I do agree that evil doesn't make God unlikely to exist. At least depending on how God is viewed. Looks like in order to make the argument from evil more effective, someone or some group of people would have to determine the best or true moral system and evaluate God based on that.
Be encouraged, brother (or sister). God has already given us His best and true moral system. We would never evaluate Him by any other standard. He evaluates us by His standard. It's what He called His ways (His behavior) in Psalm 119: 1-3. The law of God is kept in heaven above and will be kept when He and His Son descend on the day of the Lord. It's what is defined as righteousness (right behavior).
See Matthew 19: 16-17, Revelation 22: 14, Romans 8: 5-8, and Psalm 119:160, and Ecclesiasties 12: 13.
Possibly, but even if God does have the best moral system, do we know what that system is? If so, what is it?
@@encounteringjack5699
Yes, brother. We do. It's called the law of God. It was and is the behavior of Jesus Christ. It's explained and instructed for us to practice and walk in from Genesis to Revelation.
You aRe wHat y0u think i am. I still think Kingdom In Context should answer this since I’ve only read a tiny bit of the Bible.
Here’s a possible idea though.
From I’ve heard there’s poetic stories in the Bible. What if this is supposed to be poetic or some analogy. An analogy of two people, Adam and Eve being just characters and not people God actually created?
I guess if it explicitly says that God created them then maybe it was still used as part of an analogy or something.
Just a thought.
I’m not sure about Adam and Eve not existing. At least as someone who haven’t read the book, it seems possible that Adam and Eve weren’t actually human, but maybe a similar type of species. Like chimps or maybe Adam and Eve potentially maybe the beginning of the ancestor species that had the branched into humans and apes.
Just another thought. I could be wrong of course but it seems plausible. I’ll have to read the Bible to be sure.
You aRe wHat y0u think i am. Man and woman doesn’t necessarily have to be about humans. The words man and woman refer to the sexes and/or the two primary genders. So it’s not at all far fetched to say that it could be the case that Adam and Eve aren’t human.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you say “human evolution won’t be a theory”. Are you talking about the theory of evolution as it applies to humans? If that’s the case then I don’t know why that would or wouldn’t be the case. I’d have to read the Bible for that.
Good talk, brothers.
TH-cam.com/c/theonemessage
Please CC. Thank you and God bless you
I would add to D Wood's point is that even the notion of goodness and that a good God wouldn't allow suffering also makes better sense on theism.
David woooooooooddddd !!!!
God uses our suffering to make us perfect, His grace carries us trough every challenge and trial, but we will grow in strenght and faith.
Atheism is escapeism. Escape from moral accountability and potential suffering. Unmoral behavior may result in great richess or a prolonged life, but in the end, WE DIE.
„Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.“
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
This would be true if it wasn't so blatantly false. In most cases suffering leads to more suffering. For example; some one who abuses children physically, mentally, sexually, was often abused as a child themselves. Children born is struggling house holds often end up in prison and leading broken lives and multiple children out of wedlock that follow the same pattern. In most cases suffering only leads to more suffering.
How an aborted child can grow in strength?
astrol4b unborn children cannot decide what is good or evil, therefore are not judged. God saves their soul and gives them life in Heaven. If you knew God, you would know that He does not judge unfairly!
Child murder aka abortion is absolutly evil and wrong. We should fight against it at all costs. But this position is not very popular nowadays.
We proclaim that every man is damned to hell but he can be saved trough faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Its the one and only way.
Jacob Lee many people are born in a bad evil family. In fact, in the eyes of God we all are born into the wrong family - the family of Satan. Satan does not want you to know or seek God, all the devil wants is to multiply your suffering, suck you dry and then kill you and damn your soul to hell.
When we are in desperate situations, we are more open to the loving invitation of God; the gospel of peace, which is: God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son Jesus Christ to die on our behalf. Trough faith in Jesus name and His resurrection, we are saved.
It is a spiritual rebirth. Every man has body, soul, and spirit. The body is your flesh. The soul is the real, everlasting you. The spirit is what gives you life. Our spirit is corrupted, which is why we die. But God can give us His Holy Spirit when we accept His Son for salvation and repent, so that even after death, we will be declared righteous before the throne of judgement.
@@dominicwinterberger1058 you just did not answered, how can an aborted baby grow in strength?
Free will is the reason evil exists in the face of an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God.
YO DAVID YOU GOTTA DEBATE MATT DILLAHUNTY THATD BE THE MOST EPIC SHOWDOWN! 🤣
He did !
Have David Wood back pls
Uses insect as object in a fantastic argument and doesn’t take the perfect opportunity to segue into god-like butterfly effect understanding. Come on D wood 😉 love you bro! Thanks for the directions to that guy with the salvation
I was wondering what would David Wood's review response be to the Christian author's book "Why Suffering" by the late Ravi Zacharias and Vince Vitale?
Pedophilia is bad.
Pedophiles should be in jail.
1:46:00
That was just a red herring on the argument. There's no reason to assume that the proposition "jesus said to be the son of god and then rose from the dead" is logically equivalent to "jesus was the son of god".
Also, that it's unreasonable to assume that a resurrection account is not proof of a resurrection and that a belief account is proof of a belief, the two claims have vastly different burdens of evidence.
Well, it’s a good thing that there is enough evidence to bridge both gaps, and the gap in the first one is really, really, really small.
@@whatsinaname691 " it’s a good thing that there is enough evidence to bridge both gaps"
None at all. There's not even evidence on how the resurrection account was originated, much less about it's reliability. After all we have NO witnesses and all sources are inter-dependent.
@@OsaSapere No witnesses? Are you mad? All interconnected? Have you read them? My goodness, you sound like a Richard Carrier worshiping nutjob not like somebody who’s done their homework.
@@whatsinaname691 No, I'm not mad, I've read the fine print in the research. All gospels are HEARSAY, no witnesses there. Anonymous texts that for no reason whatsoever were attributed to famous characters. And yes, all interDEPENDENT (not inter-connected, two different things there, as all dependent on each other, by copying the text from each other for instance or by both relying from a single original lost source, these are both examples of dependence). And these aren't "carrier" ideas, these are mainstream agreed facts from literary criticism of the bible. As for non-biblical sources, none of the sources were from people in the time and place of the supposed facts, therefore they are based on hearsay, hearsay that we have an excellent candidate original source for: christian oral tradition.
@@OsaSapere I don’t care what the hyper skeptical rabid atheists of NT scholarship say. You take their standards of authorship to anything else in that time period and all books would become anonymous. It was common for authors to write about themselves in 3rd person, and John saying “the disciple Jesus loved” was the closest to just absolute authorship you’ll find outside of a signed letter. The books have been consistently assigned to their specific authors without error in every ancient reference we have to them and that discounts what we know about the people or the internal hints within the books to their specific author, such as Mark’s focus on Peter, Matthew’s awareness of money, Luke’s use of Mary as witness, etc… Literally just don’t take the most hardliner stance on everything that has the word “bible” associated with it and you end up with J. Warner Wallace, not Bart Ehrman.
The analogy from Nelson Pike is interesting, but I would really flinch from using that in conversation, personally. Most people, when they consider the problem of evil, are thinking about horrid things like pedophilia. I think people would feel the argument makes child rape a sort of medicine.
❤️
I enjoyed this one way too much, played games while listening, time flew by. Surely 10 hours of debating wouldn't be enough to satiate my hunger
@Jonathan Soko Holy Communion which Catholics receive in Holy Mass miraculously turned into bloody flesh and then was tested by scientific experts to be a rare blood type AB. When subjected to blood type analysis, these miraculous remnants seem to indicate a Messianic AB blood type, which is consistent with similar studies on the Shroud of Turin. But the AB blood type is associated with universal receptivity (especially AB+) rather than universal donation. May the Good Lord direct all onto the right path Amen Our Lady Queen of Heaven and Earth Pray For Us Amen God Bless Take Care 😌👏🕊☘
@@allpraisetogodmylordandsav5255 Wait... What?
Seems like David’s objection to Rowe’s argument also be used by naturalists to object to the fine tuning argument. If there were naturalistic reasons for fine tuning, would we expect to be aware of what those reasons are? If the answer is “no” then that undermines our ability to assess the comparative likelihood of fine tuning under the two hypothesis. I still think fine tuning is evidence for god, and apparently gratuitous suffering is evidence against god.
If suffering is evidentially true and naturalism highly probable, then we are clearly caught up in world where we are most likely to suffer and little chance of avoiding it. Unless you're a theist and believe God could be persuaded to assist us to step off this unpleasant roundabout of suffering and death. Of course, the sooner we're dead, the sooner the suffering will be over. Unless, of course, you think there is something intrinsically valuable about being human that should be treasured - either by God or man.
Evil obviously exists and God is obviously working toward the elimination of it through Christ’s death and resurrection.
Evidence?
Henson SF You don’t want evidence so none will be given to you except the empty tomb.
Henson SF Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_zvBhFbBDNPJCF
logosjohn1 Now you are just plain lying. I clearly said I want evidence. I only want evidence. You saying I don’t is dishonest of you. Empty tomb? How does this demonstrate anything? How do we investigate the claim of an empty tomb? We only have a story claiming this - where is the evidence?
Henson SF Do you really want evidence? put your money where your mouth is and order the book Evidence that Demands a Verdict. Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth for a Skeptical World www.amazon.com/dp/1401676707/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_zvBhFbBDNPJCF
This was really fun!
so, it seems to me that he answer to logical problem of evil is that you believe that god had purposes that he needed to get to and that he couldn't make them happen miraculously, but had to use evil instead.
You guys are sure that you are christian? Doesn't really seem an omnipotent to me.
All of this is assuming that God is allowing free will. Of course God could just overwhelm all human choice to achieve his purposes, but omnipotence doesn't include logical contradictions. It may be that a world with all of the coinciding factors God wants, including free will, must necessarily contain evil in order to not contain a logical contradiction. There's nothing wrong with that line of reasoning
@@elijahnegron337 there's no contradiction in achieving through a miracle what would have happened anyway through phisical necessity, also in light of so-called free will. So, no, I'm not asking for that which is contradictory, I'm just pointing to the obvious fact that evil in this case is deemed to be just a tool when one says that god is justified to cause evil to gain a greater good, and that a miracle is another available tool at disposal. What's wrong with that line of reasoning, in other words, is that it has god FORCED to choose evil as a tool not having miracles as an alternative. Take a biblical example: the flood. He could just have made disappear instantaneously all the people of the earth, instead he choose the evil option of drowning them to death, making innocent children suffer. Or the killing of the Amalekites, where he choose to order the hebrews to murder rather than having everyone in the country die in their sleep.
Add to that the *fact* that there's no such a thing as a will free from the deterministic laws of neurochemistry and the point is entirely moot.
This line of reasoning is fractally wrong AND not in line with christian theology.
Occhams razor anyone?
Fact: Horrible things happen.
Assumption: God is all mighty.
Assumption: God is all good.
These things don’t add up so,
A) one assumption is wrong
B) see my intricate thesis
Wait, where's your discussions between you and Matt Frad regarding Sola Scriptura???
that was on patreon
Dr Wood 😄👍🏼
If God doesn't exist, than Jesus can't be God by definition, so it doesn't matter whether He affirms the Old One or not, but also if He isn't God, He didn't rose from the dead.
We have an Einstein on our hands!😂
Rabbits in Australia, True. Frogs? Check out the Sugar Cane Toad (Rhinella marina) Very true! Both imported harmful species.
Where can I get the intro music?
The argument from evil, was never a good argument. It is by far the least convincing argument in the Athiest arsenal, and seems to just boil down to, "If there is a God why ain't I him?"
I'm a Christian and I think there is some weight to the argument. If not, why are there so many books on the subject? ....including the genius Clive S Lewis
@@curiousgeorge555 Because it allows the speaker to virtue signal that they as a person care about suffering.
It's less argument and more a complaint.
@@ericfisher1360 It's the only convincing argument the atheist has, imo. Many Christians struggle with it at one point or another unless it hasn't hit home for them yet.
I get your point, though.
Aahhh....I missed this live stream 😥
@Princess Rainbow Me too!! 😥
@@brando3342 CC lived at my sleeping time, so I missed his live streaming
@@princessrainbow4448 That sucks, I wish he lived during your awake time :D
Princess Rainbow
Crap! Haha Where's that, Australia or Russia? I don't know my time zones lol
Edit: I see your thumbnail better now, I'm going to guess Japan? 🤔😁
Princess Rainbow
Oh crazy! Haha I was wrong all three times lol well, I'm glad you still get to watch the videos even though it might not be live 🙂
This is not and never has been heaven. This is a place between heaven and hell God created so we could directly experience good and evil, suffering, pain, and joy, so that we can fully understand what our actions can do to one another and using free will we can decide which path to take.
The Bible teaches that earth is our home, not a temporary testing ground. That's why we await God to bring new creation / the new Heavens and new Earth. So we Could live eternally in an unfallen cosmos/earth
The flood of Noah provided massive amounts of fossil fuels which benefit us greatly today.
770th like. Oh yeah!
776 like. Oh yeah!
Great stuff: interesting delve into a version of the problem of evil and how to properly evaluate it and similar arguments.
Thanks for this!
How a muslim became a pastor: th-cam.com/video/feXJfs4v-Fk/w-d-xo.html
please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo
ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
To sum up pretty much this entire video; if God exists anything is possible, therefore his existence is not impossible (regardless of evil)
fun fact, bayes was clergy
Didn't watch this live. But watched through the entire countdown just to listen to the music...
he is,, david 19,,,,,run away
1
This was bad. Nothing he said was convincing or interesting. And he’s wrong that “no one in philosophy takes the argument from evil seriously”
"he wrong and bad grrr"
He didn't say "no one in philosophy takes the argument from evil seriously". At that point, he was talking about the logical argument from evil, not the evidential argument (Bayesian or otherwise).
@@elijahnegron337 if you want this to be an accurate mockery you should add more r’s
@@HaecceitasQuidditas well i take the logical argument very seriously. it’s unavoidably paradoxical.
@@bens.664 the logical argument is impossible to defend. There is no way to prove that it is logically impossible that God has morally sufficient reason to allow evil. That's why the only arguments taken seriously by serious contemporary philosophers are the probabilistic arguments.
This was very helpful in understanding what skeptical theism actually posits. I know Randall Rauser (the atheist) responds to it that it would entail we should be complete moral skeptics, but I don't think that follows from making the modest claim that 'it wouldn't be the case that if God had reasons, that we'd always be aware of those reasons.'
If god is all powerful and created everything then god created evil. If god created evil then god isn't all good.
God did not create evil per se as it is an action, not some physical thing. He made humans and Satan, which brought about evil, which He allowed so e could exercise our free will. This is a rather basic argument, did you even watch the video or look into it?
And yeah if you don't believe in God by what standard do you consider evil evil?
@@caos1925 You could say that evil is actually a lack of good in the same way darkness is the lack of light. So he didn't create evil. Also, whoever sees this: the Isaiah 45 verse which means/ is translated "calamity".
Plus, the other commenter "Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior" also puts forth a valid question considering "evil" cannot be when you take God out of the equation due to His nature being "good"-ness itself.
May God bless you all and bring all of His sheep to saving knowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord God and Saviour. Whosoever believes that He was crucified and took the wrath of God from them personally onto Himself due to their sins, was buried and resurrected on Sunday shall not perish but WILL have everlasting life and may have it in full. John 3v16-18 and also 10v10. Just as He promised in Scriptures.
Lol….”academic” work on evil and suffering.
when he says that, tic toc, time to rock, believe me It's so annoying and too teenager like. it sounds like he is some kind of unstable, attention seeking teenager
God has given us free will. Some people choose to do good, others evil. Whether the evil comes from the interference of the devil or the basic selfishness (original sin) of man is debatable. In many circumstances it is probably a combination of the two. Imagine how boring life would be if God didn't give us free will, if he forced us to do what he wanted all the time. We might be described as little robots.
Imagine how glorious life might have been if man had never rebelled against God. Free will and obedience to God are not mutually exclusive. We humans could have done both. We just chose not to. God doesn't promise that those who believe in him will have no problems, sickness, poverty, pain or sadness. In fact, he promises that he makes the rain to fall equally on both the just and the unjust. He doesn't promise that every bad thing happens for a reason (as some kind of cosmic punishment for sin), but he does promise that he can make good come out of it.
As for diseases, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, and other natural disasters. They are very tragic, but perhaps a natural consequence of an imperfect world. The question I've wondered more about in my life is why does God intervene in some circumstances and not in others. There are miracles that happen every day, but our jaded society has a hard time seeing them. My own family have experienced several miraculous rescues over multiple generations. Is it because we have remained faithful? I look forward to having my questions answered someday. But I'm confident that no other philosophy or religion better explains good and evil, and the many intricate nuances of this world than Christianity.
Lisa please read this ...There is no such thing as pre destiny. Islam is false. The I Am and jewish and christian God is the True God. Even though He knows all ...we do not. Let me explain. Time and space is a created thing. God creates time and space the second He decides to create the universe we are currently living in. The second He created the Heavens and the earth time and space came into existence. He created time and space and is therefore not subject to them...He is beyond both time and space since He is eternal. I Am when he tells Moses this is His name He instantly tells him I am eternal...I exist...I am the everlasting...the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end....We do not know how long or how many eternities He existed before He decided to initiate the act of creation itself....but He does....and the second He issues into existence the creation....then time and space and the possibility of inequity all come into existence....why inequity...why evil....because the creation is something which is less than He is....the creation is less than the completeness of His holiness...all things fall short of the glory of God....only God is good....but if in spite of this reality HE creates anyway....He creates and everything is good but in this creation that we have free will is what is also placed into the creation and it is something both angels and humans possess. In all of the possible creations that He could have made we are stuck with this one...and it must be the best possible one where we could freely chose to have an open and loving relationship with him...So...the creation with all of its beauty is still less than He is and open to the possibility of evil and the free choice to not believe in God or his principles of holiness...The creation was originally created good and we are told this in Genesis...but sin comes into the creation....the angels fell even before humans were created....How do you reconcile this if you are God....From the very beginning of creation God knew that He would have to come into His own creation in order to redeem it back to Himself...no prophet could do this...only He would be capable of achieving this because He is the only entity that is purely Holy...so from the beginning of creation itself the Son knew that He would have to come into the world in order to redeem it back to Himself and to God....the Word became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth and this was set into motion the second the creation came into existence....He came to save the world not to condemn it....this is the plan and the plan is there even before the creation is brought into its fullness....Now why is there no destiny for human knowledge...because this God continues to medal in our timeline at will and He does this and has been doing this since the beginning...when God does this we call it a miracle...and when a miracle happens it alters not only the present moment but all future events as well...on our timeline in our universe....as an example...Jesus raises Jairus' daughter from death...and instead of dying she now lives....this has altered her present and her future...she now will marry and have children and live a life which she wouldn't have had the opportunity to live...so it is the butterfly effect...all the future events of the universe are altered because of this miracle...how often does God interfere this way in our timeline....He does this every second of the day somewhere in our world...in our universe...so the future is constantly in flux...it is constantly changing....the destination does not change...in that we all move through time and space towards his kingdom and his eternity...but the journey and path to get their is constantly being altered by the second...so we as humans do not know that destiny exists...nothing is pre ordained ...our freedom of will is sanctified and respect by God Himself...we can ask for a miracle or change in our lives at any time...and because we dont know all the possibilites we remain free...only He knows what the end result will be because He knows all the possible combinations of a miracle and change He is all knowing...we are not...so you are free....truly in the freest sense of the word...within the living God....the I Am if you want more information read my book I Am by francesco vilardo
ideology....cult....religion.....sites.google.com/view/godanddemocrarcy/home
Wow I love it keep on