Sorry, No Internationals: the harsh reality of international student housing in Groningen
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Sorry, No Internationals is een documentaire over de woningcrisis onder internationale studenten in Groningen.
Ali, Daniël, Hessel en Jesse maakten de documentaire ‘’Sorry, No Internationals” voor de minor Medialism aan de Hanzehogeshool. Zij gingen langs bij de noodopvang voor internationale studenten, ‘The Village’, en wat ze zagen was schokkend.
“Vijfentwintig minuten is eigenlijk niet genoeg tijd om te laten zien hoe groot het probleem van de woningcrisis voor internationale studenten is. De Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, Hanzehogeschool en gemeente Groningen zouden meer uitleg kunnen bieden over dit probleem, maar ze wijzen allen naar elkaar. Dit probleem is nog láng niet opgelost.” aldus maker Daniel.
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En ik als Nederlander heb het al zwaar genoeg met kamerzoeken, ik kan me echt niet voorstellen hoe zwaar het is voor deze mensen!
I am the guy on the right at 1:35. The other person is a guy from Korea or Hong Kong (I don't really remember) who used to spend so much time in that lounge because one of his roommates was not entirely sane in the head (she stole my food thrice and even got into a fight with someone just because he was speaking to his friends while gaming).
I lived in that hostel for about 4 months, from September to December. I always knew the situation was bad, but the University managed things even worse. My first year was fully online, so naturally, I stayed home. For my second year, the Uni sent us an email in July saying that the situation surrounding Covid was still floating in the air so we were probably going to face a hybrid first semester, which made me focus on finding housing from the second semester onwards, while doing the first one also from home. On the 17th of August, 2-3 weeks before the start of the year, they told us that Uni will resume only in person... How the hell is someone supposed to find housing on a short notice like that? Sad thing this made me realize, the day Klaus left is the day I left on vacation to see my parents who were working in Belgium at the time. I was happy because one day earlier I had just moved in my new, all inclusive, furnished studio. Now I'm living in a house in the center with my parents who have moved in Groningen in January.
Funny thing is, Klaus was my roommate for a short period of time in the hostel and I remember the guys coming in to make this documentary. Absolutely terrible to see what has happened to him. Wish him all the best in whatever he's doing now!
Good documentary of this ashaming situation. I'll hope the University of Groningen and The Hanze will be able to improve their communication about the housing situation in Groningen. Even had a lot of (Dutch) friends who weren't able to find a room after three months of searching. I received 180 reactions within 2 days (30th & 31st of August) when I left my 9m2-room. Blew me away.
They should be fined by the government. This is just a criminal activity from the Hanze and Uni.
@@sjoerdie I don't think fines for the RUG and Hanze would help (internationals) to solve this housing problem. Structural subsidiaries for these institutions to improve on the student housing crisis might be a more structural solution. Eventually, this problem will witheld internationals to pick a study in Groningen (or anywhere in The Netherlands). The government should face the consequences on the long term and question themselves about those consequences.
No. This is not how it works in the Netherlands. This should be a learning experience for you: When you go to a new country: Don't assume that things work the way you are used to.
Why insisting going to a foreigner city for studying if you know you will not have s place to sleep? 🤨🤨
@@Frivals that's the whole problem: Dutch universities promoting their studies in foreign countries to international students. When students have chosen their studies and start looking for a place to stay, they find out there isn't any.
Imagine buying a car with a salesman not telling you it has no wheels. It is still a car. The moment you pick it up, he will tell you wheels are your own responsibility. Then finding out there are 0 wheels available, and you're standing there.
From a commercial perspective you may say that the buyer should have asked the salesman if it would have wheels. As a governmental institution like a university however, I would have expected a better moral. And that's the issue in this discussion.
Great documentary. I am a student from the UK who came to Groningen to do my Masters degree at RUG. Finding a place to stay was almost impossible, and once I did find something, after applying to hundreds of places, it was a huge let down. I stayed at The Village, which is featured a bit in the doc. I was lucky enough to get one of the rooms but it was still terrible. Infested with rats, dirty and cheap communal bathroom facilities, kitchens with no appliances except maybe a hot plate and a broken microwave, etc. Dodging rats while showering in dirty, small cubicles or using filthy, clogged toilets, all for a healthy sum of 500 Euros a month. And I was one of the LUCKY international students that found a place. I left in December and am finishing my studies back home. They even tried to trap me into the contract and demand more money after living in such bad conditions. Terrible experience, never coming back.
The Uni never once made it clear how bad the situation was, they just said international students were welcome and that, albeit difficult, it was possible to find housing. They should be honest and straight up tell internationals not to come. The UK is pretty well known for its housing issues, but never have I ever seen anything that comes close to how bad the situation is in Groningen.
My advice to international students: Just straight up don't come. The housing search will tire you out and fuck up your mental health. Be aware that there's a good chance you could arrive and end up homeless. Even if you find a place, you most likely won't feel welcomed at all (I didn't). If you're still determined to study in Groningen, do not have any expectations when it comes to housing.
Oh my goodness! Thank you for sharing your experience. I, like many other international students, would have come believing everything would be “ok”. But housing is a basic need. Sorry you had to experience that! That’s awful. May I ask, what about living in the outskirt cities surrounding Groningen?
@@lynlyn6854 Hey! During my long time of trying to find accomodation, I also looked at surrounding areas near Groningen and unfortunately couldn't find anything, so I have no experience dealing with that. I suspect the housing market is not as extreme as it is in Groningen, but it is still probably quite bad. I knew of an American student who studied at RUG but couldn't find anything in the city or in the surrounding areas so he had to commute from Lemmer every day, which is very far away! Eventually he had enough and also left the country, it was just too much stress.
If you're looking for housing, it's probably a good idea to look in surrounding areas, but you should be wary of scams! Like the documentary says, most landlords don't want to rent to internationals and many of the housing sites (especially unmoderated Facebook groups) are full of scammers. So you have to be careful.
Wow... this is discomforting to learn
hey, the problem then lies with EU rules (this is what I can make of it/how I understand it) Uni cannot refuse a student by saying don't come here no room is a form of stopping students. and the Netherlands is quite an attractive country to study, I also rent 2 houses to students, but that's another problem that comes with it and I haven't had the best experience .this is usually a big problem I as a landlord want to know if you can pay it (for Dutch students that usually speaks for itself that said being able to find a part-time job faster) the problem I had with 5 international students is that after 4 months the rent couldn't pay and that they can't find a job here too bad for them but you have to understand that I can't let them sit there for free for the rest, culture etc can not interest me much what I live not under the same roof but what I know it is also a problem for other landlords if your tenant cannot pay his rent (must also add they get under my rule/contract 1.5 months time to look for work or go away).and sorry english is not my first language and i tried to keep short and simpel
@@checkpoint5478 I understand where you are coming from. My expat friend that moved to Netherlands were able to find housing in Rotterdam within 15 days because his monthly gross income was around 6800€, which is very OK for the rent of a 50m2 upholstered apartment. Additionally, he lived alone for 6 years so landlord knew he could handle living on his own, meaning, keep the place clean, not make 50 different holes in the walls and what not.
I think the issue is a bit more about "affordable" housing rather than JUST housing itself. Because i wander around on websites like pararius, funda etc. and can see alot of houses are there but the prices are a bit crazy. Like 1250€ for 24m2 and stuff. That is a bit insane for a student to rent. Its way too expensive for its size.
It's heartwarming to see how much the Universities care about their students ❤️
It's called PR speak.
In addition, you can forbid 'no internationals', but if the selection takes place, they will still choose the Dutchman
Why shouldn’t they have that option?
@@jelledevries2977 your reply is one of the causes of the problem
@@AJazzz Put yourself in the shoes of the student home. Its not without reason homes put up this wording.
As opposed to many other countries, students often live in a student home like family. They are not seeking just a 'nice neighbour' but someone who has lifetime friend potential. In a student home you often eat togehter, drink together, study together and cry together when you have relationship difficulties. Communication is preferably in your mothertongue as it just helps with the humor and traditions. People generally start in their 1st or 2nd year and stay there untill they graduate.
In my student home we had some internationals but it was always trouble. They were either fully committed to learning (so not willing to party with us) or they were only partying (since they were there just for 1 year or even less). They prefered not to eat with the group and were just not committed to the house-traditions/rules.
So yes, after some experiences we also used the "no internationals" statement. Although there can always be exceptions to the rule, when there are so many candidates we prefered to focus on the ones that had the most chance of fitting into the group.
@@frituurvlieg I don’t know what student home you are referring to, but from experience, the student home I was in was full of internationals getting along and eating and all the acts you described , furthermore, the idea that people are there to find a ‘lifetime friend potential’ rarely happens, people have their lives and move around, in addition grouping all internationals into a two categories of party goers and study fanatics is simply nonsense, a product of a mindset that is unacceptable in todays world and attempts to remove any notion of difference between peoples and simply a trivial reason not to welcome those who are desperately searching for a house. If you are looking for a problem, look at yourself first
@@AJazzz I am not saying it is not possible to have a good relation with a mixture of national / international students. Of course that happens .Some Dutch people prefer to meet different cultures etc. All fine.
But did you ever consider to try to understand the "why?" behind the no-international notes? Most houses have had bad experiences with it. At least I did. Examples: In my house there was a Chinese student girl, never interacting with us and who was cooking smelly dishes all the time even in the middle of the night. She was on a temporary basis for 6 months but it was really annoying. She didn't care that we were like a family she was there just for herself.
Then there was a Polish dude that was smoking pot in his room even though the did not want to have that smell in our home. Also he never wanted to play cards with us or going with us to parties etc. Always had his own friends/food/plans and his door locked.
Its not that these persons were bad in any way. But when you live in a normal home it is nice if you have a good feeling with everyone. We had a culture of not locking our doors, walking in each others rooms all the time. When someone is just not a fit culturally (not just Dutch culture, but the specific culture of the house) it becomes annoying. And having to speak another language all the time and not being able to share the same Dutch kind of humor with each other really impacts the atmosphere at well (some positive, but also negative).
So after 2-3 bad experiences, the next vacancy you focus on someone that at least wants to build a long-term relation (not 6-12 months but longer), has similar interests, a cultural fit and speaks Dutch. It might be fun/interesting for you to meet new cultures, but for a lot of people having someone in your home not identifying with your culture and language can be really out of their comfortzone.
And then there is the cost/time involved in finding the right person. If there are more rooms than people you can invite everyone who responds on an ad. But the last years you get 60+ responses so you cannot invite everyone.
On what grounds do you make your selection? You filter on the ones that tick the most boxes first. And in this perspective international students usually don't tick the boxes.
Yes, they still can be the best housemates ever and tick out of the box items, but the world is not ideal and you simply don't have the capabilities of testing / interviewing everyone.
And of course, international students having a bad image also doesn't help. But do a google search on Verbernelaan Tilburg (student apartments where only internationals live) and you see why a lot of people are anxious to have international students in their family-type run home.
This is a failure of the university. Heartbreaking.
I just...can't, that is an unacceptable sort of situation, I feel incredibly lucky to have come across this documentary before moving to Groningen for the Fall Semester, the thing I still cannot shake off is that how? how is it possible to move to an entirely different country as a student with all your belongings contained just within 2 suitcases and a backpack, like what!?!?!?
how is your situation now? im going there in two years now i’m scared of facing situations like this since i’ll be alone
Not any better in other cities in NL. And also doesn't only apply to the students. That being said, yes, the housing is fucked up.
Fantastische documentaire over een schrijnende situatie. Dank voor het maken!
Amazing documentary- the situation here is one of the most stressful and frustrating things I have ever experienced moving into my first year of University in a whole new country.
As someone who studied in Groningen 6 years ago (for one year), this is heartbreaking. Sure, I did meet some people who ran into this issue, but it wasn't as bad to the point where there were protests about it .Hope everything gets better soon. 🙏🏽
This is a great documentary, thank you for sharing
Great job. As an international I didn't knew the situation when I came. But this documentary says a lot.
I have been trying to find housing for 2 years now. I'm halfway through my 2nd year in Groningen, and if it weren't for the awesome people that help me stay in Friesland, I would have definitely had to go back where I came from. Still, paying 30 euros in travel fees just to be able to go to one Tutorial, or an Exam, is terrible. It goes way above saying that it's more expensive than rent could be. What are students, but money-milking machines?
You should look into the student travel product, this makes travelling with trains and buses and almost all public transit free. If you are following a study program you are eligible to get one I think!
@@dorienf.2040 Unfortunately, no. I'm an European student, so unless I work here, or pay taxes by owning something, I'm not able to get it. Trust me, I've made countless phone calls to the point where I was just rudely told "What makes you think you deserve help from us?"
@@alexandrakikialexa Have u looked into Dal voordeel? U can get 40% discount at non peak hours.
@@DareDaan I have, actually, but since my travel is with Arriva, I was actually unsure whether it takes that into consideration
Hi! Is this still your current situation? I would like to come in contact with you to share your story. Feel free to send me a message on my Instagram @esmee_blom.
As an American who has been planning and researching moving to The Netherlands I knew about the housing crisis but this is absolutely heartbreaking and shocking to see how it is effecting international (and probably national) students. Not only students but also renters with full times jobs.
I'm kind of speechless after seeing it in this documentary - this is completely the opposite the image of The Netherlands I (and so many others have) and I really wonder why the government let the housing situation get this bad after so many warning signs for years.... the housing situation there has me increasingly worried and I'm now reconsidering moving there.
If you are thinking of moving there, I geniuenly suggest paying 1 or 0.75 month worth rent money to a real estate agent to find you a suitable housing. Otherwise, you are gonna spend 2-3 months banging your head against the wall and believe me its not worth the stress.
Nice documentary! What I would like to add is that "not feeling welcome" is a general feeling I get in general and not only from the housing situation. Honestly it feels so wrong to "lure us" to such an "environment that respects diversity", while in the same time inside and outside of the university they always expect us to think and act like Dutch.
The only thing the Uni ever cared about is how to lure more internationals into their trap in order to cash more tuition fees.
Hi Maria, Dutch culture is very individualistic: "as long as it doesn't impact me, its a matter of live and let live". We embrace the concept of allowing people to be different, but we are not going to adapt ourselves just to let them feel welcome. This is very different to some other cultures that are more focused un mutual bonding. I can understand that this can be perceived as not feeling welcome.
We basically don't get too close to a person but we can get along with lots of people.
Sorry for English, I unfortunately am a mbo 2 student.
@@frituurvlieg it's called living in fear of the unknown
@@RadioNul For a lot of Dutch people that is part of it. However, I traveled a lot and found similar, if not worse, responses worldwide. Central Europe (Poland, Hungary, Czech republic) was really bad when it came to (being against) diversity. But also in Spain and England I found similar responses.
I think its just an unfortunate part of homo sapiens...
Okay, now, let's add "one high quality multifunctional sleeping bag." to the list of things you must do before you come to the Netherlands to study as the most high priority task.
Of course, an urban tent with address registration function will make your life easier.(if it existed)
If the university is not getting government funds for helping with the housing but they do get government funds for the number of students there is definitely something fishy about it. Then limit the number of intake students as an institution. Hanze always says how they try, but many students feel just like a number in their system. There are some amazing teachers, but the board never takes the blame or responsibility, it just feels like they are going around it. For Christmas they send you postcard so you feel "valued" and "cared" for. I would highly recommend anyone to consider many times before coming to Groningen, it is a lovely city, but I cannot wait to be out of Hanze, I have never felt so insignificant as I do at an institution that promotes "share your talent, move the world" . So please, really consider it before you move here and ask students directly that are already living here.
university says they are not responsible for housing because they don‘t get funding, right. From my understanding dutch universities get funding according to the number of students they attract, which led them to introduce English lectures to attract lots of students from abroad. Situation in the Netherlands is extreme. I‘m from Germany and we live in a city with already very serious housing situation. In all dutch university cities situation seems to be devastating. My daughter just started in Eindhoven and found a place for now with extreme luck, but 50% of her co-students have not yet found a place yet, some life outside in tents with upcoming winter, some did not even start or where scammed. I‘m shocked and would recommend every student to pursue other options than studying in Holland now.
The obvious solution is to only fund Dutch lectures. It would be patently absurd if they started introducing Chinese and Indian lectures to introduce more Chinese and Indian students; it's actually just as absurd and wrong to introduce English lectures for money incentive. Goes to show that university administrations will happily pimp out their lecturers and facilities and name to the highest bidder, absolutely morally bankrupt practices for what are supposed to be educational institutes for Dutch people.
Great documentary
Deze Doco zal ik ook graag afspelen tijdens mijn livestreams op het internet , en helaas heb ik geen plek vrij anders had ik gekeken als ik misschien een onderdak had voor 1 of 2 studenten .
Great documentary!!
How did it even come to this point? Doesn't anyone keep track of how much accomodation is available Vs how many students there are? Why does the system still work in a way that rewards universities for having more students while disregarding quality of life for students. Everyone who's here should be able to *easily* find accommodation. It should not be stressful.
If we do build more housing than the shortage, don't let it get to this point again. Don't sit back and wait for universities to again encourage everyone to come study there.
The problem is that universities do not own property. There are student housing organisations like SSH and DUWO. They offer affordable and good student housing. The waiting list is can be as long as 5 years(!) You can subscribe on your 16 th birthday but even then they are Dutch students that live in nowhere ville and still face a problem.
There was always a shortage of student housing, but it became more extreme due to the influx of international students, who in turn came because the universities lured them with good quality studies in English. It's quite extreme, only 15 years ago most studies at the universities in the Netherlands were in Dutch. Nowadays it's even hard to find a master that is only in Dutch.
@@ywee3980 Can't goveremnt prevent these universities from taking in too many international students?
How does it come to this situation? Well there is some history to this. During the housing crisis in 08 and during the credit crisis in 12 there were more then enough houses available. During 2016 The market was moretheless in an equilibrium and after that it went completly the other way.
Politicans their policies often are a couple years to late to the current reality. Back in the days, (2008) there were simply too many houses. So the need to build wasnt there. Therefore a lot of local homebuilders went out of business this situation basically persisted until 2016 / 2017 when the housing market turned the other way around and fast.
But yeah in 2017 you had simply no policies, no homebuilders and no funds. This is in 2023 starting to change.
@@fatihkilbil No. And there is also no incentive for them to do so. International students basically fund the normal students (read only students that pay the full tuition cost). They actually do want those people because they gain a lot of cash.
@@tim3440Yeah but then those student aren’t going to come if the housing situation is so awful that it will effect their studies and enable them to waste thousands and lots of time because they will perform poorly. They also get deported given that situation
Still wild to me that saying "no internationals" in advertisements for housing isn’t illegal. I was very lucky the university college provided housing for the first year, once you're there and know people it's a lot easier
Its because its a group of students wo want to find a lifetime friend as housemate. Student homes often work like families where people eat, party, study, etc. together having many traditions and a very specific form of humor that (in my experience) a lot of internationals don't understand.
Internationals often leave after 6 months, in which they mostly have parallel ways of living with other internationals and are not committed to a student home with many traditions. They are either super-focused on their study or partying all the time.
Ofcourse there are many internationals that are different, but if you have 60 candidates to select from, you invite the ones that have the most chance of fitting in your group. And ofcourse speaking Dutch is a big advantage. Its just much nicer if you can have dinner discussions in your mothertongue.
So its nothing personal, just a lot of bad experiences people (including me) had in the past and the luxury of being able to choose from many candidates, so you don't have to search "out of the box".
@@marat.kairatbek "If people wanna be in their safe bubbles and try not to encounter anyone foreign with different background and culture, its their conscious choice"
This statement is a strawman-argument for 2 reasons
1. No-one says they dont want to encounter anyone foreign, with different backgrounds and culture. Its about living together in an very close relationship. People have preferences who they want to live together with. Just as people have preferences who they want to form a relationship with.
2. We are not talking about people being foreign; we are talking about "international students" which is a specific group that has other characteristics than just being foreign. No-one cares if you come from a foreign background. If you would speak Dutch, would be there for a couple of years (and not 6-12 months), and have similar interests it would be ok.
99/100 international students do not fit this group. There might be a couple that will fit or are so awesome the positives outweigh ther negatives, but since you cannot invite everyone for a meet-greet (sometimes you get 100+ responses) you have to filter. So you invest in the profiles that have the highest chance of being a good fit with the current residents. So you filter out the group that 99/100 doesn't speak Dutch.
But the real issue is that there is a lack of housing. If there were only 5 candidates, of which 3 were international students, they would probably be invited. There would also be a lot more internationally oriënted homes. So don't blame the students who simply want to live together with likeminded people. Not everyone is comfortable in having to speak another language when in their private place. You need to respect that. Also mind, forcing international students in doesnt change the total problem, as it will mean more Dutch people would be left without a room. So its not a solution at all but shifts the problem.
If you want to change this "in your mind discriminatory" policy, increase the total number of houses available and you will see it dissapears.
@@marat.kairatbek Might be, perhaps our children will think of us being bigots for not dating outside of your sexual oriëntation.
As of today, I think its perfectly acceptable to have a preference in who you want to form an intimate household with.
Oh my god this is terrifying, I might come to Groningen September 2023! I think I need to think about it twice!! Denmark must be a better option 🙂
I was planning on studying in Leiden for a Master's but this problem was one reason I decided not to go
Smart. Leiden is a shitty university anyway :)
im going to groningen soon and watching this scare me to the bone!
Peter hi. My son going in September. How are you finding it there? Would love to know.
Mooi gedaan.
Really helpful thanks
At first, on behalf of the citizens of the city, I am very sorry. I am lobbying as hard as I can to get the problem resolved and so are the schools. I hope this resolves itself in the next 5 years.
This is so sad. Hope it gets better…
300?!!!??!?!???!! The Netherlands should SHAME THEMSELFS. THIS IS NOT WORTH 300!!! As a dutchie i apolagise for the over charge and i wish i could house a couple of students.
Why can't you?
I dont even have a house. 😅😂
Look on airbnb. I did rent rooms there for some time. And maybe Groningen could bring together elderly people and students. Would work both ways.
The housing crisis has only become more terrible. I feel sorry for students trying to move here! I've lived in Groningen all my life and I currently live in the city center.
Even for me, it has become impossible to buy a house or even rent something that comes even close to the space I live with right now. These students are still getting
milked left and right.
to the municipality and university; please just keep blaming each other instead of resolving this ongoing issue...!
how can it be, that a) every year more students are admitted in faculties than available rooms exist in the entire city and b) an 'international friendly' city [/country] tolerates systems, that are not only taking advantage of young students in this desperate situation, but also clearly express racist discrimination?!
Dont see how race factors into this. The fact is that most dutch people cant find living spaces, why shouldnt they come first. These students are not netto taxpayers and cost the dutch a fortune.
@@simdal3088 Not sure how there is a difference between a national and international student. Neither is a full-time working person so in terms of being a "taxpayer" they are on equal footing.
@@fatihkilbil Only one actually stays and becomes a productive member of our society.
What? Racism in Netherlands? There is barely any.
Oh my god, I am planning to go to Hanze university for some months to carry out some of my PhD tasks, but I now I am freaking out about this housing situation. Probably would cancel everything, don't wanna end up in the street! Wtf
Same, I was planning to do Erasmus for 5 months and now I’m like what the hell, no way.
It’s a shame a university keep glorifying itself with “ oh we are ranked Top 100” come to our uni, and then this housing situation is just a shame
You should organise a sleep protest where you will not leave the faculty building and sleep on benches inside. If they call the police, just repeat it the following day till they are sick of it.
Then you harrass the wrong institution. The university doesnt have housing for you. The municipality can create solutions ;)
In Amsterdam this is even worse especially for internationals
I live in Groningen and I'm know a lot of international students. Yess it's so hard for them 😭 😫
1 woord: WAUW
14:54 Roeland van der Schaaf talks a lot without any useful information and then blame someone else at the end. No mention of what is the plan to solve the problem.
He basically said : " I know the problem. I feel for it. I am a good person. But please blame someone else." .
As someone who has worked in cleaning, renovation and instalment in the Netherlands (I am dutch, currently not living there), part of this "No International" problem is the sad but true stigma surrounding internationals, which are not high credential "Expats". They have a really bad tenant score, tenant score you ask? Yes.
Even when there is no real system that tracks and scores demographics or individuals, there will always be stigma's and common or average perception/public opinion, often based on some very real problems.
From a Housing point of view: Risk of damage to the property is perceived as higher, which has its own plural of reasons as to why it is perceived as such and as someone who has dealt with cleaning the mess up, as well as repairing the houses that are afflicted by tenants I can tell you that atleast in my experience (surrounding both Groningen and Amsterdam) the stigma of students being a risky tenant, applies horizontally to most internationals (With the exclusion of Expats), so yes even more so to international students.
Im not putting any judgement out there, but I have heard both parties, seen both sides and the tragic reality is: Their housing needs are not in line with the classic housing options offered, they require more social coherence (student flats/shared appartments being managed properly instead of turning into a moldy house that needs renovation after practically every tenant) or need a level of damage resistance to accomodate the management of the property.
You have no idea what a complete WASTE of resources, and time it is for EVERYONE involved in the cleaning up, repairing, communication about all of it and/or and this is more modern: the legal pursuit of damage claims, due to the idiocy that is house mismanagement and neglect, theres an entire renovation and damage control SECTOR by now, it used to be a service and now its a commercial sector of its own, because people enlarge, are taking less care of their living spaces and generally just more care less, becoming careless.
That sector is a service out of requirement, you get it when you need it kinda thing, now it seems to be a permanently settled mode of business, creating business venues of "how to protect your home against your tenant" sort of equipment, basically babyproofing the house for the demographic that you might let loose on your property.
Tenants complain about landlords because of mold, if theres a crack in a wall or something that leads to the humidity in the home increasing, okay fair enough.
When theres mold in a home (most properties turn into repeat offenders) not just more than half, the overwhelming majority of it is due to house management (so how you live in your home and mangage it whilst you attend it). Our dutch construction on average is of a very solid and generally high standard, actually giving most homes more leeway to prevent/resist and manage mold growth.
Theres always exceptions, and yes theres also plenty of poorly built or renovated houses to start making a bit of a counterargument, which is part of another problem I will not adress in this comment but essentially is the answer to the question: "Who is the avarage property investor and or land lord nowadays? And how do they compare to their historic counterparts, what changed?".
With the short answer being "amateurs", not much different from the restaurant industry, both have a low bar of expertise to enter.
No bloody wonder people enlarge that own these estates and are not happy minmaxing a property until you salvage it, but rather want to manage a decent estate for decent tenants.
Students are a form of temporary housing, internationals is the same story, now you try and tell me how the overall property management and quality of living in those quarters is going to be like, and then try to explain to property investors that its just a matter of good morals.
I do have a hard time not crying for the mislead or misinformed internation, student, or whomever sleeps in a bus-stop or anything of the sort and would feel even more so upon seeing it in person.
The harsh reality is that the housing for the student and even more so international demographic is a bussiness of damage control in terms of property management, which leads to crappy houses as well, you gotta min max when you deal with property damage to this extent. Sorry but not sorry, people have to appreciate infrastructure a lot more before this changes, or we find systems that allow us to minmax it (like modern student housing projects). Family and local home needs are different, estate management is different, simply put.
Putting all that want to come into the houses that were designed for Dutch living standards, is a bad idea, and real estate investors do not want to pay that price.
Let alone the issue surrounding communication, I will wrap it up as is.
I do not mean to critisize this video, it means to raise awareness of the issue which does nothing but help, fighting against the odds of internationals being misinformed of the situation because of the public image that the Netherlands has, thinking crisis, does not mean crisis in the Netherlands because thats just how good it is, sorta thing.
No rich countries have real issues, and real nonsense issues, which can still be very very real issues. The grass is greener on the other side mentality needs to go, bye bye.
In case, you, as an international are thinking, hey! it aint me or my friends that do that, we dont know these people: You are either lying, downplaying, the rare exception (yes you exist), or you are an expat, which is not the same. Life is different when you have a proven good rep sheet and a certain income and or stage of life, as well as perceived culture, is your social credit score when you interact with the world. There are ways to prove things and theres good faith, and any renting done to a younger, less established person requires more good faith on the property owners side than it does on the tenants side nowadays and as such you will see it goes with preferential or lack there-of treatment.
Theres often a silver lining to a lot of people saying to a lot of other people: We do not want to do business with you.
But then again you call it a human need, therefore turning it into a demand, I suggest you look to the government to assume responsibility for that, if they are willing and in the capacity they might.
Capacity needs to be created rather than annexed, thats just a sleight of hands.
If you make it this far into my monologue, I would also like to share that I am quite aware of the issue that is property and repair mismanagement from the Property owner or landlords side.
When you work in that sector you really get to taste the bad end of the stick only to find out theres no good side of the stick left.
And thats where we are at, housing based on good faith has become a rotten business that most folks with some integrity would rather stay out of, its just dealing with people at their worst and cleaning it up, whilst enabling the existence of it and or trying to profit of of it. The plastic industry equivalent of housing, and the core problem: The tenant mentality.
No government official gains respect when they have to try and enable this type of degradation of the local, because thats where the damage applies. So on the national level you might find leeway, but on the local level you will find very little of it.
I can understand where you are coming from. IMO goverment should allow the householder to charge the price of renovation after tenant leaves the place in an awful situation.
I say this, because, the good burns with the bad. I for example have lived alone for 6 years (22 to 28) and you would be amazed how well I left the place. I had very few furnitures (I am a minimalist), I did weekly cleanings. I made sure to not cook very oily stuff (it ruins the kitchen's cabinets) etc.
But more important, I own a house. I learned it the hard-way that renting a house to an international student or a male person that will be living alone wasn't that much of a good idea if I knew nothing about them.
Here's the issue though. Now I am going to be an expat in the Netherlands. Company I am working for wants to relocate me to Netherlands (somewhere around Rotterdam and/or Delft). Its now been 40 days and they are still trying to find me a place to stay. And I can imagine why they are having difficulty. 28 y.o male international guy from a 3rd world country that will be living alone. And this is why I said good burns with the bad. I understand the stigma but It simply doesn't apply to me but I am affected by it.
This is why I think landlords should be allowed to charge the price for the damage caused to the house (cleaning included. Hire a cleaning company, make the tenant pay for it). That would... maybe solve the issue, I am not certain.
nice documentary. we used to live in NL and rented our house there when we left. it is so sad that these innocent students cant find homes when our house was rented to people who .... I cant even explain how bad they were/are. life is really not fair. but it was not in Groningen but in Den Haag also near the uni though. maybe one day we will get nice students to there. we have kids who might want to go to university in NL since they speak Dutch and that is the main reason we still have the house there. Also before I get angry comments from people who think all house hoarding is bad or owning a home where you dont live and renting it out is bad I just want to say I am aware of those ideas and I even agree with it fully in many ways but the REALITY is that we do not live in such a world. Yes hoarding is very bad especially when it comes to housing but the reality is that we dont live in a world where things are provided for you if you dont provide for yourself. I would 100% choose a world where NO ONE ever had to own a home, where we would just get housing as a right but sadly that is not the way the world works so I just have to live within our reality and vote and wait for a better one but in the mean time I have to take care of me and my family and that is why etc.
Is there a place like a "squat" or something in Groningen? I think, unfortunately, it would be a interesting way to solve this problem in terms of protest... Especially if it affects the landscape!
A squat? What kind of squat?
Squatting as in; occupying an house ? That is illegal in the Netherlands.
May be I am not in good place to say but I guess Netherlands government need to change policies little bit. They need to build some skyscraper like thing some big societies it might solve the problem. It will provide more flats in less space.
There are limits to growth. There are already more than 18 million people in the Netherlands(!) The Netherlands is one of the most populated countries in Europe. There should be a serious discussion about what to do with living space. There is a huge housing crisis here, that's partly because households are getting smaller. Before people lived with huge families in a family house. Now when people divorce they need TWO of those houses. The same goes for universities. They cannot translate studies into English and lure all sorts of international students to the Netherlands and thinking it will out okay.
You can perfectly fine build a skyscraper but what will you do about all the other things you need to take into account of an unit of say 1000 people living somewhere.
The fire department needs to be able to handle it in case it goes wrong.
The local healthcare systems need to be able to handle it.
The water / electricity / gas needs to be available for that many people on a single place.
Local police departments needs to be able to handle it.
You need to have enough place for enough parking spots.
And you can go on about the limitations.
It is very easy to say; go build a skyscraper if you dont know anything about city planning.
@@eennaam1234 First of all, read my comment again.
Second of all, from a technical point of view is our nation (ja, ik ben ook Nederlands ;)) perfectly suited for skycrapers. You can build them.
Is there place for all the other things to support those skyscrapers? No.
Third, laat je PVV standpunten even achterwegen ;))
Fourth, why does everyone feel entitled to it? Well because we give it to people ;) Beside that there is something called European Law and Schengen. Can you blame people to move to more prospers areas?
And do immigrants not give anything in return? A lot of knowledge (and value) is actually created by foreigners. So that immigrants do not give anything in return is just BS and you know it. Or are you working at Amsterdam Zuid or for ASML or something? ;) I highly doubt that you are just an high achiever in life.
no one's gonna want to talk English with you all the time and housing is near impossible to find - Have you ever been in an acadamic environment? Most people want to talk English. And yeah the housing is the issue explaind in the video, it drives up the prices and foreigners often do pay those prices.
Het valt mee hoe moeilijk Nederlands is - Dutch isnt that hard. It aint Chinese ;)
Again, in academic environments most people are perfectly willing to speak English ;) I hope you realise that the global academic language is English.
@@tim3440Internationals also give a LOT of money aswell it literally subsidizes nederlanders education lmao, they are mad at like a brick wall that helps them
@@AizakkuZ Not a clue what you are on about tbh.
Hi everyone! Can someone explain how can I enroll in the housing corporation? How can I be part of the Groningen Student Union. Is it a good idea to rent at the students hotel ?I am going to be an student on Hanse University in September. Thank you in advance guys!!!
Still need info?
@@tim3440 Not anymore thank you. I already have a place 😄😄
Shit. Are the other cities like Tilburg or Utrecht any better?!
Same shite different year. Well done greedy Rug and Hanze.
What you do about the housing crisis here, you say fuck it, turn around, go back home and get a job. Worked great for me.
Ik had aangegeven dat ik een kamer, badkamer en slaapkamer te huur had. Geen enkele reactie. Dat komt natuurlijk dat ik niet in de binnenstad van Groningen woon maar heerlijk aan het Oldambtmeer. Beetje jammer dit. Nu hoeft het van mij niet meer.
Tja, niet iedere student kan 40km heen en terug reizen om naar college te komen, zeker niet als je geen auto ter beschikking hebt of kan betalen.
@@daphnedontje2897 tja, het is maar wat je belangrijk vindt
@@elkedijkhuis1262 Ik denk dat het goed is dat studenten het belangrijk vinden om aanwezig te kunnen zijn op college. Maar inderdaad het is wat je belangrijker vindt
@@daphnedontje2897 dus u denkt dat studenten die buiten de stad gaan wonen niet op colleges aanwezig kunnen zijn? We hebben hier echt geen Flintstone auto’s meer maar echt openbaar vervoer en zelfs wegen die naar Groningen leiden. Ik zit mij nu toch echt af te vragen hoe het mij gelukt is om jarenlang s’morgens om 7 uur op mijn werk in de stad aanwezig te zijn.
Maar we kunnen deze discussie nu wel sluiten. De kamer, slaapkamer en badkamer met bubbelbad voor €400 gaat aan ieders neus voorbij.
@@elkedijkhuis1262 Ik ken persoonlijk niet veel studenten die een auto kunnen betalen. Ook krijgen internationals geen studenten OV. Fijn dat het u lukt, maar niet iedereen zit in uw situatie.
Please which city is this, Amsterdam?
groningen
Is it as bad in Rotterdam as it is in Groningen?
yes
Even worse... Lol.
Groningen is one of the better student cities.
This is an interesting video. Me as a foreigner during my masters in Tilburg in 2014 for year and a half, there were such cases. In my particular case, i do not think so, but you have to be adaptable and flexible. Life is unfair and mostly not logical .In my view, I like this directness - there is nothing bad or wrong with specifying what people you want to live with. The ducth are famous with that and me being also that kind of person naturally, I guess that is why I did not have any problems with this issue particularly. But believe me,as a person with experience in 4 countries , NL,Lux,Germany and Hungary , you will face it in a different and more subtle form. Germans and Hungarians compared to Dutch are very PC , meaning, they will subtly outcast you in a specific situations meanwhile being polite and sometimes you will wonder why something aint working. Lux is international place but if you do not work in Finance, basically it is like "only Lux treatment" . No paradise anywhere, but at least they tell you in the face without hiding and pretending. That is something which I respect and nobody is wasting my time either. Just adapt and be flexible. Today's generation thinks someone owes them anything in life, even if yoyu deserve it,doesnt mean you will get it. Sometimes, you need to take it your way. Peace!
The most dificult part to solve is the "no international" above ads?
Yeah, he is a bit leftish. ANd leftish individuals complain a lot about discrimination. They think that Dutch student houses are obligated to take in internations but it would enrich them.
Why insisting going to a foreigner city for studying if you know you will not have s place to sleep? 🤨🤨🤨
Is this really true.....or is this just exaggerating the situation?
I am no student, I am an expat looking for a rental in/around Rotterdam or Delft (45 days and still looking haha).
To my understanding, the situation is indeed very problematic for students. But I understood it a bit differently. My understanding is that the students can't find affordable houses and the income requirements or requirements themselves alone are a bit crazy. For example there are lots of apartments available in Rotterdam but they are like 30m2, 1400€, income requirement 3.5x the rent (meaning 4900€). And then you have rules like "Only for 1 person, no pet, no smoking, other people cant live with you here, give us your last 3 payslips" and so on.
To begin with, I have no idea how can a student meet this income requirement. You could perhaps with 3 people but 30m2 is not enough for 3 people. Additionally, rule is that you can only rent it alone anyway. Hence, students have to resort to looking for rooms but when EVERY student has to do this, number of available places are simply not enough.
Thus, I would say that there is an "affordable housing" crisis. Though this applies to everyone, students simply have it the worst.
This is true. This is not an exaggerating the situation.
As a Dutch student I have looked for around 15 months for a room in Leiden.
In Groningen I havent been able to find a room, therefore my parents bought an apartment in which I am currently living.
@@fatihkilbil Those rules are from local authorities and have to do with a mixture of reasons.
Income requirement is simply to know that you will be able to pay the rent. 3 times until 3.5 times earning rent is because you shouldnt pay more than 40% of your income to housing. Otherwise you will get in trouble with other living expenses. Which not only is bad for the tenant but in the end also increases the risk for the landlord not receiving his rent on time.
Only 1 person rule/other people cant live with you has to do with the fire department, which needs to be able to save you in case it is necersarry. If 100 people are living on 10 square meters that will be impossible. Beside that fact it has to do with so called 'toeslagen' (subsidies) and it has to do with taxes. And in last it has to do with decreasing fraud. ''Brievenbus adres huizen'' are a thing in the Netherlands, especially with rental houses. Brievenbus adres huizen are houses in where fraudster send their bills to but also register but not actually live.
No pet, no smoking has to do with dutch rules of what you may expect from a tenant to clean. A landlord can demand from a tenant to make his/her place ''bezem schoon'' which is litterly translated is ''broom clean''. A landlord cant demand more cleaning from a tenant than a simple swipe of a broom through the house. And of course a cat, beside the hairs, also cause odors. No smoking has also to do with the last one.
give us your last 3 payslips has to do with you being able to pay it. You can also have a garantor which can be a parent to help you. A lot of student houses do it actually via a garantor.
And yeah, your conclusion is correct three is an affordable housing crisis. But honestly an housing crisis has always to do with affordability you can live anywhere if you pay enough money.
Dus elk westers land verziekt het voor zijn studenten en Nederland mag de ellende van andere landen oplossen.
I can understand why they say "no internationals". I also understand that it comes across as very direct and painful. Int. students often stay in the Netherlands for a short period of 12 or even less 6 months and that is often not what people are looking for as a landlord or as a your roommate. Dutch persons stay for a few years and its easier then to build up a strong bond. They dont wanna search every year or couple of months for new housemates.
While this makes a bit of sense, I think that bonding at this point is way less important than ensuring that people do not live on the street.
@@angela_42 Yeah but it isn't like there are no applications from Dutch students. Like it was mentioned in the film, some rooms have over 200 applicants.
That is not really true, in the september period a big percentage of international students who come are not erasmus students, but people who actually decided to do their whole bachelor/master in the Netherlands. This means they plan to stay 3 or 4 years, and most of the time even more. Erasmus students can just cancel their Erasmus and stay at home and continue their studies in their home country, however bachelor and master students who come cannot do that, they go back to nothing. People do not want internationals in their house because maybe they do not want to speak english at home, or maybe the landlord had bad experiences or doesn't speak english ( i have lived in multiple dutch house as such, and any communication was a pain )
@@angela_42 Yes, but that is not your responsibility as a student who is looking for a roommate, then you have other priorities. Same as being a landlord. In addition, you can forbid 'no internationals', but if the selection takes place, they will still choose the Dutch person.
@@andreeabaciu2474 but you also know that it's partly true. Just like there are also Dutch student houses where int students are welcome. But Dutch houses choose the safe route and of course also for other reasons such as language etc.
They're discriminating against males in general, It's way harder to find studenthousing as a man than it is as a woman.
my birthday is on 23 december
Yes if you put "NO INTERNATIONALS" on your advertisement it is a harsh. But if you put it as a preference it would be an improvement. Just saying.
And i don't think it is racist if you don't want International students in your house because if everyone is Dutch it is just easier to talk.
And the thing is that often people from abroad only stay for a short period of one year or so. As a student myself, I want to build a connection with my housemates and prefer someone that will stay in the house for a couple of years.
@@thijmenpille5705 but then why not put that information in the listing? Internationals also come here for a full bachelor's often, not just a half year of exchange. And a Dutch student could leave quickly just as well, depending on their situation
@@angela_42 Sure, if that’s something that is a strict requirement for you, then you should put it in the listing. Yes, a Dutch student can also leave, but it is less likely. If a student comes to the RUG for one semester, you know that he/she is leaving in a half a year no matter what. A fresh bachelor student also has to the freedom to leave after half a year, but is more likely to stay there for a while. And GENERALLY, foreign student come for a shorter period of time than Dutch students.
@@angela_42 Yes thats trueee. I even wanted to live with Dutchies since I am learning dutch and wanted to have the experience of a student house.. but yeah...
@@angela_42 It is not the problem that they are internationals, but mainly that they do not speak Dutch. Many Dutch people don't speak English so well that they could easily have a good conversation with an international. In their spare time they mainly want to chat, and that is easier in Dutch.
DONT COME. THE NETHERLANDS IS FULL. BYE !
If you want to study abroad and experience different cultures, that's great. Welcome in the Netherlands!
Part of our culture is that you take care of things yourself, and rely on others as little as possible. The younger you learn that, the better, we think. So wrt your housing, it means you have to take care of that yourself and shouldn't have assumed that someone would have taken care of that for you. The fact that you are used to universities taking care of housing for students doesn't mean that this is how it works everywhere.
Did you not watch the documentary? The issue isn’t people “not taking care of things themselves”, it’s that people are searching and searching for housing and not finding any.
That's just not true though, because loads of Dutch people find places to live via via. Internationals can't do that.
@@Catwomen4512 True. Plus they are already here, so they can start looking a year in advance, and commute a while when they haven't found something yet.
@@rexfoxoloughlin6033 I stated it like that deliberately. Here in the Netherlands housing is your problem. You need to take care of that yourself.
Students are here to learn. Also how different cultures work. This is an aspect of that.
This guy is an example of a dutch idiot
Yes because you should go to the Netherlands first, and only then look for a house.
Im pretty sure they were already looking for houses before going , but due to the fact they can’t come over just to get to know the other people living there combined with the high demand for housing they simply get brushed off
You know many of these internationals have started looking for a house as soon as they got confirmation that they would be coming here? The fact that the people in the video have been in Groningen for half a year now, and only now start finding houses, is proof you can't just blame the students for not looking early or hard enough. It's simply impossible for them.
@@Screech1992 why do you come then if you can't find houses. you are choosing to be homeless yourself.
Dutch students and even normal families aren't able to find houses/rooms in The Netherlands, why do you international students think we care about you. You choose to come here to study, we didn't force you to come. I have got one simple solution: go study in another country and don't come to The Netherlands as long as even Dutch people themselves can't find houses.
The point is your Unis say us internationals are welcome to come and study, and some Unis have high rankings so it's a good opportunity. Don't put this on international students, other countries are perfectly capable of housing thousands of foreigners. In the UK we have thousands of Dutch people coming over here and studying at our Universities, and they are all welcome and provided with housing. Instead of being angry at internationals just because your shit government apparently can't even provide the basics, you should be telling the Unis to stop telling internationals to come, and then have further protests to demand some real change about the housing crisis. It's not nearly addressed as much. But thanks for making internationals feel not welcome at all when the actual fault lies with the Uni and the municipality. So much for Dutch hospitality.
you sir are no dutch person so i suggest u speak for yourself , i am dutch , born and raised in groningen and we love our foreign students ALOT!!
@@Lkrum I'm Dutch myself and I completely agree with you. The Uni's are the big problem here.
Oh Shit
@@Lkrum My (Dutch) daughter had to stay in a hostel when she did a term in Edinburgh 5 years ago. She shared a room with twelve persons the entire time. No other housing available. My daughters now live in student housing in Utrecht and Amsterdam, which they soon will have to leave. And there will probably nothing payable available after that.
International students are the problem, the universities are not allowed to refuse admittance to them, so it's their problem they cannot find a place to stay. Pointing fingers at unis doesn't make sense.
Are you dumb ??? Universities should speak about the low housing availability.
It is not a crisis. Its a consequence of too much "fame" and the "want-to-study-at-elite-universities"-mindset
I mean, what is your expectation?
The population in Groningen did grow 11% since 2003.
But in this timeframe the number of students did also grow at a rate of 62%.
21000 Students in 2003, 34000 in 2023.