Special props for the nod to Get Smart by the way! For us, one of the biggest impediments to sitting down and playing a game is knowing we’re gonna have to plow thru a rule book. And having to teach it to others?…. It’s probably why video games continue to be more popular - just more easily accessible.
I also didn’t understand why the rulebook was written that way. We’ve never played La Granja so it was a big impediment. Once we got to the “good” part of the rules, it finally made sense.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH STOP FRONT LOADING INFORMATION INTO RULEBOOKS I may have mentioned it a few times. It's a shame that some publishers don't listen to feedback or realise just how bad this is. :) I still do rulebook consultancy, and one of my number 1 things is "DO NOT FRONT LOAD INFORMATION"
Thank you for covering this. I love the game. I completely agree with your frustration for the rule books. I believe there are two board game cancers: 1. Worthless rule book: often I need to make myslef a player aid in order to play without reviewing tons of pages of rule book. I also hate box size pages of the rulebook as it feels like I would read a newspaper (if anybody knows now what a newspaper is ::) ) Another mistake that they do with rulebooks is that rulebook of expansions mentions for example changes to end game scoring without saying what are those for base game. Thanks to this I need to search for it in two or three rulebooks - uhhh crazy. It is the same for turn structure if expansion changes it. 2. Ugly plastic minis (I strongly believe it should be replaced by a lot nicer acryilic standees so that deluxe boxes are no longer so enormous big and it could also lower those overwhelming prices. I do not even mention about eco impact and that 2/3 of a players do not have a time or skill to paint minis. I believe that you famous boardgame content creators should join together and write an open letter to major publishers with a tips how to do good rulebook otherwise it will stay the same for next decade.
You should do (if you haven’t already) a Top 10 rulebooks AND why they make your list. Maybe Team up with Paul Grogan and do a combined list. Maybe the publishers will get it?
Nice playthrough. I am going to keep my La Granja deluxe. I don´t mind the area control and the deluxe version has a great look plus several expansions.
If this has 8 pages of concepts frontloading than it's much worse than Unconscious Mind, where honestly it didn't bother me much where they explain the resource wheel and reputation before the how to play. Which I agree it could've been done within the main rules but I didn't find it there more offensive than what you describe here.
i didn't care for the frontloading in both rules, but the cardinal sin of the UM rulebook was spreading all of the various ways you can spend bright ideas throughout the rulebook and not having a single summary of it. well, they did have a summary, but only listed like half the things. don't remember exact specifics now, but i found that intensely infuriating... like the ONLY reason to do this sort of frontloading of stuff is to have a one stop spot to getinfo like this, and then they half-assed it. maddening!
I’m guessing that there are people who learn better one way or the other. If they are spending that much money developing and releasing a game why don’t they, at the very least, have two versions of the rulebook? Contextual learners and thematic learners. They pay the money to translate into other languages. Why don’t they translate it into other learning styles?
8:23 This must be a pretty rough start with a bunch of new players. LOTS of pretty important decisions with no knowledge of the impact they will have. I like where it seems to be going though…
I had no problem with this rulebook. But I am definitely scared to get to Unconscious Mind later this week from what you (and others) have said about it.
För me UM has the easiest rulebook by far. My only mistakes have been points where I've actively skimmed and failed to read due to ADHD. Or I chose not to double check a rule when answering a player's question. A rulebook can only give so much. Heavier games require more effort to learn. And it's kinda just luck as to whether you find the rulebooks structure intuitive or not.
Special props for the nod to Get Smart by the way!
For us, one of the biggest impediments to sitting down and playing a game is knowing we’re gonna have to plow thru a rule book. And having to teach it to others?…. It’s probably why video games continue to be more popular - just more easily accessible.
Total respect for your honesty about the rulebook 👍👍
I didn't know I needed that rant today. It was satisfying. I don't even have the game, but damn that was tops.
I also didn’t understand why the rulebook was written that way. We’ve never played La Granja so it was a big impediment. Once we got to the “good” part of the rules, it finally made sense.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
STOP FRONT LOADING INFORMATION INTO RULEBOOKS
I may have mentioned it a few times. It's a shame that some publishers don't listen to feedback or realise just how bad this is. :)
I still do rulebook consultancy, and one of my number 1 things is "DO NOT FRONT LOAD INFORMATION"
I still need to get my La Granja to the table that I picked up due to your review. Thanks for this gameplay and review!
Can't wait to try this! Bit conscious it's a bit too heavy, but not sure that deters me enough haha
Thank you for covering this. I love the game. I completely agree with your frustration for the rule books.
I believe there are two board game cancers:
1. Worthless rule book: often I need to make myslef a player aid in order to play without reviewing tons of pages of rule book. I also hate box size pages of the rulebook as it feels like I would read a newspaper (if anybody knows now what a newspaper is ::) ) Another mistake that they do with rulebooks is that rulebook of expansions mentions for example changes to end game scoring without saying what are those for base game. Thanks to this I need to search for it in two or three rulebooks - uhhh crazy. It is the same for turn structure if expansion changes it.
2. Ugly plastic minis (I strongly believe it should be replaced by a lot nicer acryilic standees so that deluxe boxes are no longer so enormous big and it could also lower those overwhelming prices. I do not even mention about eco impact and that 2/3 of a players do not have a time or skill to paint minis.
I believe that you famous boardgame content creators should join together and write an open letter to major publishers with a tips how to do good rulebook otherwise it will stay the same for next decade.
You should do (if you haven’t already) a Top 10 rulebooks AND why they make your list. Maybe Team up with Paul Grogan and do a combined list. Maybe the publishers will get it?
thatis a good idea! :)
Yes, great idea. And maybe for some choices then a bad example that did it wrong
Came for La Granja, stayed for the strategery
Great rant!😂👏
Nice playthrough. I am going to keep my La Granja deluxe. I don´t mind the area control and the deluxe version has a great look plus several expansions.
(David Attenborough voice)
“The world of rulebook writing was changed forever after the El Burro incident.”
Inventors of the South Tigris does that rubbish with the rulebook too - grrrr
I still want to play Stationfall, but I always struggle with their god-awful rulebooks. I don't know why designers get it so wrong sometimes.
If this has 8 pages of concepts frontloading than it's much worse than Unconscious Mind, where honestly it didn't bother me much where they explain the resource wheel and reputation before the how to play. Which I agree it could've been done within the main rules but I didn't find it there more offensive than what you describe here.
i didn't care for the frontloading in both rules, but the cardinal sin of the UM rulebook was spreading all of the various ways you can spend bright ideas throughout the rulebook and not having a single summary of it. well, they did have a summary, but only listed like half the things. don't remember exact specifics now, but i found that intensely infuriating... like the ONLY reason to do this sort of frontloading of stuff is to have a one stop spot to getinfo like this, and then they half-assed it. maddening!
I’m guessing that there are people who learn better one way or the other. If they are spending that much money developing and releasing a game why don’t they, at the very least, have two versions of the rulebook? Contextual learners and thematic learners.
They pay the money to translate into other languages. Why don’t they translate it into other learning styles?
Please make new syphon filter 🙏
getting an opportunity to do that would be one of the few things that could coax me out of videogame retirement :)
8:23 This must be a pretty rough start with a bunch of new players. LOTS of pretty important decisions with no knowledge of the impact they will have. I like where it seems to be going though…
yeah it is surprising that htey didn't include "for your first time, choose one of these sets of cards in these spots" kind of thing.
I had no problem with this rulebook. But I am definitely scared to get to Unconscious Mind later this week from what you (and others) have said about it.
if you were fine with this rulebook, you'll probably be okay with the UM one as well :)
UM rulebook is indeed terrible. I mean...bad for what a modern rulebook should be.
UM is not that difficult of a game to learn and play. Paul from game rules does a good how to.
För me UM has the easiest rulebook by far. My only mistakes have been points where I've actively skimmed and failed to read due to ADHD. Or I chose not to double check a rule when answering a player's question.
A rulebook can only give so much. Heavier games require more effort to learn. And it's kinda just luck as to whether you find the rulebooks structure intuitive or not.
@@dunny4106 Almost got it right :)
"Gaming Rules!" :)