The only knife I batton without hesitation is the Terävä Skrama. It is tough and relatively cheap. Mostly I will use my hatchet. That can be battoned too, e.g. in a tent, if needed.
I will stick with what I've been using for years my Gransfors Bruks and keep using my knives for (Whittling on a Stick) 😁. But good info to know. Thanks
Thanks for the video, I learned a lot about knife grinds and steel’s that I didn’t know. Primal Outdoors has a great and safe method of splitting kindling with an axe or hatchet. I’m not sure how to explain it but it’s pretty good.
@@wcknives what are your thoughts on that big EZE Lap double sided bench stone I’ve seen in your videos ? I think it’s neon green/yellow. Does the stone keep its abrasiveness pretty well or have you found it to be fast wearing?
@@wcknives oh by the way, to clean that Venev stone, I’ve found that the rust eraser works best to clean the build up. The only other way that’s more effective is using a flattening to abrade the top layer off
Certainly! That is the RC coming into play but you still have the potential problem of vibration and a hard fine edge where a fissure could start and eventually work it’s way through the blade. A softer spine will also deform from batten strikes, depending on hardness and also rounding with use from scraping fero rods or tender. Always a trade off.😁
@@wcknives thank you for the answer. I guess is time for you to start making axes for those who insist on batoning but like to have a WC stamp on their tools Ahah. Thanks.
5:30 You do not deal with the "through tang" concept (such as with Cold Steel and Falkniven knives) with some sort of "rubber-like" handle material. Any reason why not? 11:00 Grinds: you depict a hollow grind as going all the way up to the spine. I don't think I've ever seen a commercially sold knife with that grind, certainly not successfully. Nearly all hollow ground knives are similar to sabre ground knives except the the grind is hollow not flat, but not extending all the way to the spine. Typically it goes up 1/3, or maybe 1/2 the way up - seldom more than that. 12:40 Scale: Here I take exception. Firstly, a full convex ground blade is very nearly as strong as a Scandi grind! (eg Cold Steel and Falkniven). It just lacks the "shoulder", which makes the Scandi the better splitter. Yet, the convex grind is not even mentioned on the list! Secondly, if a hollow grind only goes up 1/3 or up to 1/2 to the spine, that blade is MUCH stronger than a full flat grind any day of the week. It might have a more delicate edge (in terms of chipping and rolling) bit it's stronger against breakage. Thirdly, a lot depends on the circumference of the grinding wheel being used. A large wheel (say 18 inch) gives a very shallow hollow grind, while a 10 inch wheel will give much more "hollowed out" grind, and be more delicate. Fourthy, the thickness of the blade stock plays a huge role too. The thicker the blade, the better it will baton, for the same grind geometry. (I see that is the next topic). The aim with batoning is to get the wood to split quickly (as you said). This means that, by the time the spine disappears into the log, most of the splitting should have been done, and the cutting edge no longer in contact with the wood, as the shoulders are pushing the wood aside. With a full flat grind this does not happen, as the full grind surface remains in contact right up to the spine, and only then starts to push aside the wood. That's why they are not good for splitting wood and need much more beating (effort) to get the split done. I hope this helps viewers understand the dynamic a bit better. 16:20 Steels: Strange that you did not mention laminated steels, which are quite widely used in especially bigger blades. Any reason you omitted these? (eg Cold Steel/ Falkniven, again). There is one more thing I'd like to mention: I use a simple guideline for batoning: the size (diameter) of the wood (log) should not exceed 1/2 the length of the knife blade. So, for example with an ESEE6 or CS SRK (6 inch blades), one should not baton logs thicker than 3 inches in diameter. Also take knots into account, as they cause severe strain on the edge of the knife. Anything thicker should be split with wooden wedges ( or axes/mauls). This fits in with your harmonics discussion. I'd really like some feedback on my comments.
Wow, what a novel. I’m sure you left out a few grinds and designs as well there are to many variations to list mention or discuss in one video or comment. The main topic of the video and stated many times is “the more steel on the knife the stronger the knife.” The viewer is left to his or her own decision on how much steel they need for their use. You are reading to much into my artistic abilities with the hollow grind drawing. As with a shallow saber a hollow grind can be at any height up the blade but due to less steel behind the edge than a saber it is a weaker blade. It goes back to the main topic of the video. “The more steel the stronger the knife” I will read your commit again and follow up if needed. Appreciate your view and interest.
I did mention a convex grind in the video, briefly but everything goes back to the main topic in the video “the more steel on the blade the stronger the knife.” Spine thick was discussed in the video and explained as you stated. I think the rest is just repeating what I stated in the video.
I stated in the video there were more steels than discussed in the video and the viewer should do research on steels when selecting a knife. In closing this video was not intended to discuss every design, grind, or steel type. The video was to touch on the the main topics stated in the video and things to consider when researching or shopping for a heavy use knife. It was to get the viewer aware of issues with battoning and to do some thinking before choosing a knife. It is not a graduate course only a introductory course.
Your formula for wood size is reasonable and being reasonable was discussed in the video. The knives you stated is designed to be heavy use blades meeting the points stated in the video. So you should be fine unless Murphy raises his head. All batonning is hard on a knife and is a risk. This video was intended to get that point across and get the viewer aware of design elements and make a better informed decision.
@@wcknives I agree on all counts. I personally would only baton as an absolute last ditch emergency, preferring to use wedges wherever possible. However, I believe that in the woods there is usually plenty of wood, in all sorts of sizes: fine stuff, splinters, twigs, small branches, and thicker branches. I get around the need to baton and making feathersticks by having with me a waterproof bag with sufficient kindling to start a sustainable fire. Once going, I ensure that I'd use the side heat to prepare a similar batch for the next wet day fire by drying the wet wood till tinder dry, then insert in the Zip-loc bag. By rolling over like this one always has dry kindling. Incidentally, you forgot to answer my question about the omission of the laminated blade steel. Cheers mate.
Thank you for the classroom lecture
The only knife I batton without hesitation is the Terävä Skrama. It is tough and relatively cheap.
Mostly I will use my hatchet. That can be battoned too, e.g. in a tent, if needed.
Fantastic explanation William.
I will stick with what I've been using for years my Gransfors Bruks and keep using my knives for (Whittling on a Stick) 😁. But good info to know. Thanks
Thank you for all the great tips. Just added a choil to one of my bucks. Very informative video. 👍
Thanks for the video, I learned a lot about knife grinds and steel’s that I didn’t know. Primal Outdoors has a great and safe method of splitting kindling with an axe or hatchet. I’m not sure how to explain it but it’s pretty good.
Jason does have axe skills.
@@wcknivesYes he does.
A chainsaw round file is a good way to add a sharpening choil to a knife that needs one.
Very informative thanks William. I leant a lot from your video 🇺🇸 🇳🇿
Hey William! I really enjoyed this video! Have you ever done a demonstration on your method for sharpening a convex knife?
Mouse pad and sandpaper
Only one I did on a convex. I don’t use many convex grinds on knives. I prefer a V grind. th-cam.com/video/F7Y9YYxtMlY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=aWuaiGEe-wkN2P_g
@@hiramhaji7813 many use that method for sure.
@@wcknives what are your thoughts on that big EZE Lap double sided bench stone I’ve seen in your videos ? I think it’s neon green/yellow.
Does the stone keep its abrasiveness pretty well or have you found it to be fast wearing?
@@wcknives oh by the way, to clean that Venev stone, I’ve found that the rust eraser works best to clean the build up. The only other way that’s more effective is using a flattening to abrade the top layer off
Rogan Pey Tool is great for this
Certainly beefy enough. 😁
Keeping the beating alive….
Hi William. Do you think a knife that has a selective tempering works better for batoning than one that was fully tempered?
Certainly! That is the RC coming into play but you still have the potential problem of vibration and a hard fine edge where a fissure could start and eventually work it’s way through the blade. A softer spine will also deform from batten strikes, depending on hardness and also rounding with use from scraping fero rods or tender. Always a trade off.😁
@@wcknives thank you for the answer.
I guess is time for you to start making axes for those who insist on batoning but like to have a WC stamp on their tools Ahah.
Thanks.
@@ricardorodrigues9498 😂
Great info, I own 1 of your knifes and they are to nice to baton with. I’ll use a hatchet
5:30 You do not deal with the "through tang" concept (such as with Cold Steel and Falkniven knives) with some sort of "rubber-like" handle material. Any reason why not?
11:00 Grinds: you depict a hollow grind as going all the way up to the spine. I don't think I've ever seen a commercially sold knife with that grind, certainly not successfully. Nearly all hollow ground knives are similar to sabre ground knives except the the grind is hollow not flat, but not extending all the way to the spine. Typically it goes up 1/3, or maybe 1/2 the way up - seldom more than that.
12:40 Scale: Here I take exception.
Firstly, a full convex ground blade is very nearly as strong as a Scandi grind! (eg Cold Steel and Falkniven). It just lacks the "shoulder", which makes the Scandi the better splitter. Yet, the convex grind is not even mentioned on the list!
Secondly, if a hollow grind only goes up 1/3 or up to 1/2 to the spine, that blade is MUCH stronger than a full flat grind any day of the week. It might have a more delicate edge (in terms of chipping and rolling) bit it's stronger against breakage.
Thirdly, a lot depends on the circumference of the grinding wheel being used. A large wheel (say 18 inch) gives a very shallow hollow grind, while a 10 inch wheel will give much more "hollowed out" grind, and be more delicate.
Fourthy, the thickness of the blade stock plays a huge role too. The thicker the blade, the better it will baton, for the same grind geometry. (I see that is the next topic). The aim with batoning is to get the wood to split quickly (as you said). This means that, by the time the spine disappears into the log, most of the splitting should have been done, and the cutting edge no longer in contact with the wood, as the shoulders are pushing the wood aside. With a full flat grind this does not happen, as the full grind surface remains in contact right up to the spine, and only then starts to push aside the wood. That's why they are not good for splitting wood and need much more beating (effort) to get the split done.
I hope this helps viewers understand the dynamic a bit better.
16:20 Steels: Strange that you did not mention laminated steels, which are quite widely used in especially bigger blades. Any reason you omitted these? (eg Cold Steel/ Falkniven, again).
There is one more thing I'd like to mention: I use a simple guideline for batoning: the size (diameter) of the wood (log) should not exceed 1/2 the length of the knife blade. So, for example with an ESEE6 or CS SRK (6 inch blades), one should not baton logs thicker than 3 inches in diameter. Also take knots into account, as they cause severe strain on the edge of the knife. Anything thicker should be split with wooden wedges ( or axes/mauls). This fits in with your harmonics discussion.
I'd really like some feedback on my comments.
Wow, what a novel. I’m sure you left out a few grinds and designs as well there are to many variations to list mention or discuss in one video or comment. The main topic of the video and stated many times is “the more steel on the knife the stronger the knife.” The viewer is left to his or her own decision on how much steel they need for their use.
You are reading to much into my artistic abilities with the hollow grind drawing. As with a shallow saber a hollow grind can be at any height up the blade but due to less steel behind the edge than a saber it is a weaker blade. It goes back to the main topic of the video. “The more steel the stronger the knife”
I will read your commit again and follow up if needed. Appreciate your view and interest.
I did mention a convex grind in the video, briefly but everything goes back to the main topic in the video “the more steel on the blade the stronger the knife.”
Spine thick was discussed in the video and explained as you stated.
I think the rest is just repeating what I stated in the video.
I stated in the video there were more steels than discussed in the video and the viewer should do research on steels when selecting a knife.
In closing this video was not intended to discuss every design, grind, or steel type. The video was to touch on the the main topics stated in the video and things to consider when researching or shopping for a heavy use knife. It was to get the viewer aware of issues with battoning and to do some thinking before choosing a knife. It is not a graduate course only a introductory course.
Your formula for wood size is reasonable and being reasonable was discussed in the video. The knives you stated is designed to be heavy use blades meeting the points stated in the video. So you should be fine unless Murphy raises his head. All batonning is hard on a knife and is a risk. This video was intended to get that point across and get the viewer aware of design elements and make a better informed decision.
@@wcknives I agree on all counts. I personally would only baton as an absolute last ditch emergency, preferring to use wedges wherever possible. However, I believe that in the woods there is usually plenty of wood, in all sorts of sizes: fine stuff, splinters, twigs, small branches, and thicker branches. I get around the need to baton and making feathersticks by having with me a waterproof bag with sufficient kindling to start a sustainable fire. Once going, I ensure that I'd use the side heat to prepare a similar batch for the next wet day fire by drying the wet wood till tinder dry, then insert in the Zip-loc bag. By rolling over like this one always has dry kindling.
Incidentally, you forgot to answer my question about the omission of the laminated blade steel.
Cheers mate.