Could be that Gibson vs Fender action difference is due to scale lenght? I would assume that on longer scale, strings need to vibrate more "broadly"...this is the only thing I came up to think...
hi kris. thanks for attempting to answer my gibson vs fender action question. and yes, the "sch" is pronounced the german way :D i managed to achieve the illusive 1mm high e action on both my LP and the strat now. i was an idiot. i assumed that the truss rods on both guitars had the same effect. i tightened the truss rod on the fender more than i would ever need on a gibson and it pulled everything right. since i'm using 10s on both guitars and the fender having the longer scale, this was the step needed to have the neck set almost perfectly straight. as you mentioned. cheers!
My favourite strings on Fretless Bass are flat Tapewounds. They don't damage the fretboard like flats but are lower tension and feel smoother (at least to me).
I use flat tape wounds on one of my fretless basses as well. Love the tone. My other two fretless basses, and one of my fretted four strings, are strung with the new La Bella Low Tension Flats, and I couldn't be happier! The windings are so thin, the strings look like they've been chromed. So flat and smooth, they feel like they're coated. Add low tension to that, and what can I say? Give them a try.
11:09 I just set up a Floating bridge for 9-42 with low action and… light touch is required to prevent unwanted flutters and fretting out of tune from too much pressure. It’s a learning curve that’s for sure but hopefully it’ll put less strain on my carpel tunnels.
You can actually get away without levelling by just tapping individual frets and running the fret rocker back and forth accross the neck. I've done it a bunch of times with pre-cut stainless frets from Amazon.
My 2015 Gibson Les Paul Classic has a height-adjustable zero-fret titanium nut. It has a tiny set screw on each end, so I can quickly and easily raise and lower the action at the first fret. I also went with a roller bridge and locking tuners. The action can be set very low with ease, and tuning / intonation is a snap. It also stays in tune, even the G string.
I hear lots of people on TH-cam talk about the importance of crowning the filed frets. But a few years ago I took a lesson with a local luthier who taught us to use regular files, as he wanted to teach us while avoiding expensive guitar-specific tools. He showed us that after filing, then sanding, then polishing, the flat edges got a little rounder, and maybe not as round as with a crowning file, but still plenty smooth. I've heard techs on TH-cam say that not crowning them can cause intonation problems, but I've used the regular files from that luthier's lessons on a few guitars now and intonation is never a problem. My frets are a little flatter than most maybe, but they don't seem to cause any problems. I would love if it someone could demonstrably show me why I should be more worried about crowning my frets.
This is helpful because I’ve just realized the low action issue on my Strat by using a capo. It’s so buzzy and while that’s kind of cool as a specific sort or sound, it’s annoying when you don’t want it. I guess I’ll be raising the action on my Strat a little bit in the near future!
Strings for fretless bases: - don't use round wounds: they eat up your fret board! - i used to play quarter rounds to get a somewhat round wound sound (but i can't find them any more) - half round could work (but i don't know any current supply source either ..) - i just installed some flat wounds ... will see how they work 4 me 🧐
The solution is easy, -just get high frets (1,5mm+). Best of both worlds-you will have lower action and enough space for bending. So the same fellling as scalloped fingerboard.
Kris, Terrific information on your video 📹. Absolutely never work to dangerously on the Tele..lol. As much as I enjoy all your tech tips I will just not touch my guitar collection. I enjoy and still use the knowledge though. Great video. 👍
For some reason, I found that Tunomatic Stop tail type of bridges lend themselve for lower action without fretbuzz then Fender style bridges. Of course you cant just put Tunomatic on Strat, so there are other factors, its just observation.
Yes, it's interesting. There are exceptions of course, but in general I also find it easier to get a buzz free super low action on Gibsons and Gibson style guitars. Even though the scale length is shorter, which should cause the strings to move around more due to a little less tension. Very interesting indeed. //Kris
I was thinking the longer scale length would mean a greater amplitude (range of string motion) for a given note, requiring higher action to avoid fret buzz.
@@davetaira8665 longer string means higher tension that reduces amplitude so it cancels out. The lenght difference of 25.5 and 24.75 is not significant enough. A well made and well maintained guitar will be able to have a low action and minimal fret buzz. It all comes down to how muuch buzz you can tolerate because you will always have some
Hey, like RapttorX said: the longer scale length of Fenders should have the opposite effect. The strings are stiffer, so they should buzz less with the same string action when tuned to the same pitch. It's very interesting indeed and in this particular situation (both Gibson and Fender plekked and a flat radius fretboard on the Fender) I literally cannot think of any proper explanation. //Kris
It’s cuz Gibsons are da bomb dude. Of course. But yea I’ve noticed this too. I’m a tech at Guitar Center and I’ve noticed Gibson acoustics are able to be set up much lower than Martins or Taylors or pretty much anything else. You’d have to spend about $4,500 on a Martin Modern Deluxe to get the playability and craftsmanship of a $2,000 Gibson. The guys at that Bozeman factory do really high quality work. And honestly, the guys at Martin in PA have been (incredibly) sloppy with their factory setups lately. We got an OM28 in last month that was setup by the factory to 5mm on the treble side. I just bought a Clapton model straight from the factory that was setup to 4mm bass and 3 mm treble. Inexcusable for a $3800 guitar. (I wanted a modern deluxe but I would have had to wait till the fall to get one). But yea I set up gibsons about .5mm lower than anything else.
Gibson vs fender low action. Maybe its because of the scale length on a gibson. The Gibson has the shorter scale lenght maybe thats why it is ? Just guessin
I practice my setups and fixes on beater guitars I pick up for around $100 from pawn shops etc. before I do them on my more expensive instruments. I like DR Black Beauties 40-100 for my fretless bass. Gives the silky smooth tone, yet has enough "bite" to give clarity, doesn't wreck the fingerboard, and looks killer! Awesome Q&A Kris!
There's so much questions in my comments it should be a phone call. Thank you for patiently responding 💓 If you'd make a "fret rocker masterclass" video where you just write all your "in your head" questions and answers to them, that would be amazing! After I saw what's possible when you're using hosco files and mesh pads I decided to change my technique a bit. You guessed it, it's shopping time!
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses I must have posted this comment just before I moved and I'm about to move flats again. That's a reality check 😅 Recently I was just hoarding tools and projects. Maybe it's time to start working on them again 😄
If your harley Benton guitars didn't come with frets all over the place.. people wouldn't have to level them... I bought two V guitars off you and both of them add bad frets... were terrible and needed leveling.... Up your quality control
The answer to low action guy's question is that we don't know what his Fender is all about. 2 Identical Fender Strats could have different adjustability, all other things being equal. I've never heard anyone say that Fenders can't have as low an action as Gibson. Same thing goes for Gibsons. We could have two SGs of the same model and year and one could quite possibly be able to maintain a playable, lower action than the other. Plekking machines don't matter in this case. Not any more than a bunch of other factors do-that weren't mentioned. Neck relief, saddle height, nut(besides "plekking") neck shims. Saying that all Gibsons can get lower actions because your particular Fender can't get as low an action as your Gibson is not correct.
GUYS WITH FENDER PLAYER TELECASTERS: Is your Action low on the A+E String? You need to play gently for it to have no Fretbuzz? Is Buzz normal? I have like 2.5mm on 12th Fret on the E+A String to have it Buzzfree, but it feels a little high - is it? Going to 1.75mm it Buzzes so much on first 4 frets duh...! HOW IS YOUR TELE PLAYER? Tell me!
Mexican made Player series Telecaster, 2.25mm on 6th/5th string, 2mm 1st string. The action feels high to me so I will try to lower it more. Maybe this info helps: I use heavier strings on my Tele, 0.012in gauge. As far as I understood heavier strings can help with fret buzz as they don't move around as much, so maybe you can try a set of heavier strings, but be careful: the extra tension in the strings means you may need to perform a new setup.
@@florentin-petrusandu4422 got the same mex tele, also changed strings +setup done. I buzz only at first few frets on the low e and a a little. I will lower it too, since I am a little high too. I will take the tip, to play more gently like fruciante, he knows what he does. I am also 2.25mm ish currently! Will go down to 2mm now. Hope no big buzzing
Gibson lower than Fender ... of course: - Gibson QS is worse🤮 - Gibson colors are worse 🤮 - even the custom shop is direr -> worse 🤮 - only low grade non experienced players buy ant try to play Gibsons 🥳 Wise players do corner Gibson and just take a Tele 😇
Could be that Gibson vs Fender action difference is due to scale lenght? I would assume that on longer scale, strings need to vibrate more "broadly"...this is the only thing I came up to think...
hi kris. thanks for attempting to answer my gibson vs fender action question. and yes, the "sch" is pronounced the german way :D i managed to achieve the illusive 1mm high e action on both my LP and the strat now. i was an idiot. i assumed that the truss rods on both guitars had the same effect. i tightened the truss rod on the fender more than i would ever need on a gibson and it pulled everything right. since i'm using 10s on both guitars and the fender having the longer scale, this was the step needed to have the neck set almost perfectly straight. as you mentioned. cheers!
Try using a StewMac shim on on your strat
@@faustohernandez3434 it doesn't need one. i achieved what i wanted regarding the setup
My favourite strings on Fretless Bass are flat Tapewounds. They don't damage the fretboard like flats but are lower tension and feel smoother (at least to me).
I use flat tape wounds on one of my fretless basses as well. Love the tone. My other two fretless basses, and one of my fretted four strings, are strung with the new La Bella Low Tension Flats, and I couldn't be happier! The windings are so thin, the strings look like they've been chromed. So flat and smooth, they feel like they're coated. Add low tension to that, and what can I say? Give them a try.
11:09 I just set up a Floating bridge for 9-42 with low action and… light touch is required to prevent unwanted flutters and fretting out of tune from too much pressure. It’s a learning curve that’s for sure but hopefully it’ll put less strain on my carpel tunnels.
You can actually get away without levelling by just tapping individual frets and running the fret rocker back and forth accross the neck. I've done it a bunch of times with pre-cut stainless frets from Amazon.
Vielen Dank für das informative Video.
Sehr gerne! //Kris
My 2015 Gibson Les Paul Classic has a height-adjustable zero-fret titanium nut. It has a tiny set screw on each end, so I can quickly and easily raise and lower the action at the first fret. I also went with a roller bridge and locking tuners. The action can be set very low with ease, and tuning / intonation is a snap. It also stays in tune, even the G string.
I love D'Addario ENR71 half rounds on my fretless bass.
Thanks for sharing El Dorado! Cheers //Kris
I hear lots of people on TH-cam talk about the importance of crowning the filed frets. But a few years ago I took a lesson with a local luthier who taught us to use regular files, as he wanted to teach us while avoiding expensive guitar-specific tools. He showed us that after filing, then sanding, then polishing, the flat edges got a little rounder, and maybe not as round as with a crowning file, but still plenty smooth. I've heard techs on TH-cam say that not crowning them can cause intonation problems, but I've used the regular files from that luthier's lessons on a few guitars now and intonation is never a problem. My frets are a little flatter than most maybe, but they don't seem to cause any problems. I would love if it someone could demonstrably show me why I should be more worried about crowning my frets.
This is helpful because I’ve just realized the low action issue on my Strat by using a capo. It’s so buzzy and while that’s kind of cool as a specific sort or sound, it’s annoying when you don’t want it. I guess I’ll be raising the action on my Strat a little bit in the near future!
Super low action is extremely overstated.
Strings for fretless bases:
- don't use round wounds: they eat up your fret board!
- i used to play quarter rounds to get a somewhat round wound sound (but i can't find them any more)
- half round could work (but i don't know any current supply source either ..)
- i just installed some flat wounds ... will see how they work 4 me 🧐
I actually don't like super-low action. I find it hard to get under the string when doing bends.
The solution is easy, -just get high frets (1,5mm+). Best of both worlds-you will have lower action and enough space for bending. So the same fellling as scalloped fingerboard.
Kris,
Terrific information on your video 📹. Absolutely never work to dangerously on the Tele..lol. As much as I enjoy all your tech tips I will just not touch my guitar collection. I enjoy and still use the knowledge though. Great video. 👍
Sounds Good!
th-cam.com/video/_UX2QfKNv3w/w-d-xo.html
another thing to check is if the peck also did a fall away on the higher frets. this technique gives more space for the strings to swing.
try a neck shim on the fender to see if the break angle helps
The buzzing on fender could have to do with a too low break angle over the saddle depending on model.
Another possibility is relief differences. I’m usually able to set strats with hard tails really low.
For OP I would suggest setting relief identically and making sure the bridge and/or nut slots aren’t creating the buzz.
Ep.98 …it helped with some fret issues
For some reason, I found that Tunomatic Stop tail type of bridges lend themselve for lower action without fretbuzz then Fender style bridges. Of course you cant just put Tunomatic on Strat, so there are other factors, its just observation.
Yes, it's interesting. There are exceptions of course, but in general I also find it easier to get a buzz free super low action on Gibsons and Gibson style guitars. Even though the scale length is shorter, which should cause the strings to move around more due to a little less tension. Very interesting indeed. //Kris
My Gibson Lespaul its seted with 1mm high E and 1.25mm Low E 0.11 strings and my strat above 1mm with 10 strings Standard E
The lower Gibson action question: could it have anything to do with the longer fender scale length and greater tension on the strings?
I was thinking the longer scale length would mean a greater amplitude (range of string motion) for a given note, requiring higher action to avoid fret buzz.
@@davetaira8665 yes, that’s exactly my thought, too 🙃
You guys are fast 😅
@@davetaira8665 longer string means higher tension that reduces amplitude so it cancels out. The lenght difference of 25.5 and 24.75 is not significant enough. A well made and well maintained guitar will be able to have a low action and minimal fret buzz. It all comes down to how muuch buzz you can tolerate because you will always have some
@@davetaira8665 its actually the other way around: same strings have more tension on fender scale than gibson scale.
Hey, like RapttorX said: the longer scale length of Fenders should have the opposite effect. The strings are stiffer, so they should buzz less with the same string action when tuned to the same pitch. It's very interesting indeed and in this particular situation (both Gibson and Fender plekked and a flat radius fretboard on the Fender) I literally cannot think of any proper explanation. //Kris
It’s cuz Gibsons are da bomb dude. Of course. But yea I’ve noticed this too. I’m a tech at Guitar Center and I’ve noticed Gibson acoustics are able to be set up much lower than Martins or Taylors or pretty much anything else. You’d have to spend about $4,500 on a Martin Modern Deluxe to get the playability and craftsmanship of a $2,000 Gibson. The guys at that Bozeman factory do really high quality work. And honestly, the guys at Martin in PA have been (incredibly) sloppy with their factory setups lately. We got an OM28 in last month that was setup by the factory to 5mm on the treble side. I just bought a Clapton model straight from the factory that was setup to 4mm bass and 3 mm treble. Inexcusable for a $3800 guitar. (I wanted a modern deluxe but I would have had to wait till the fall to get one). But yea I set up gibsons about .5mm lower than anything else.
Gibson vs fender low action. Maybe its because of the scale length on a gibson. The Gibson has the shorter scale lenght maybe thats why it is ? Just guessin
Lower action on Gibson vs start style, maybe the string tension has an influence. Because of the scale
I practice my setups and fixes on beater guitars I pick up for around $100 from pawn shops etc. before I do them on my more expensive instruments. I like DR Black Beauties 40-100 for my fretless bass. Gives the silky smooth tone, yet has enough "bite" to give clarity, doesn't wreck the fingerboard, and looks killer! Awesome Q&A Kris!
Thanks so much buddy! I'll try the Black Beauties for fretless, awesome tip! //Kris
There's so much questions in my comments it should be a phone call.
Thank you for patiently responding 💓
If you'd make a "fret rocker masterclass" video where you just write all your "in your head" questions and answers to them, that would be amazing!
After I saw what's possible when you're using hosco files and mesh pads I decided to change my technique a bit.
You guessed it, it's shopping time!
Hey man, I just found this comment. Shopping time, right? :D How are the tools doing? Any fret dressing done lately? Cheers //Kris
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses I must have posted this comment just before I moved and I'm about to move flats again.
That's a reality check 😅
Recently I was just hoarding tools and projects. Maybe it's time to start working on them again 😄
Fenders have a longer scale length, so the string in its middle needs more space to vibrate. Maybe that explains why Gibsons can go lower?
If your harley Benton guitars didn't come with frets all over the place.. people wouldn't have to level them... I bought two V guitars off you and both of them add bad frets... were terrible and needed leveling.... Up your quality control
The answer to low action guy's question is that we don't know what his Fender is all about.
2 Identical Fender Strats could have different adjustability, all other things being equal.
I've never heard anyone say that Fenders can't have as low an action as Gibson.
Same thing goes for Gibsons. We could have two SGs of the same model and year and one could quite possibly be able to maintain a playable, lower action than the other.
Plekking machines don't matter in this case. Not any more than a bunch of other factors do-that weren't mentioned. Neck relief, saddle height, nut(besides "plekking") neck shims.
Saying that all Gibsons can get lower actions because your particular Fender can't get as low an action as your Gibson is not correct.
GUYS WITH FENDER PLAYER TELECASTERS: Is your Action low on the A+E String? You need to play gently for it to have no Fretbuzz? Is Buzz normal?
I have like 2.5mm on 12th Fret on the E+A String to have it Buzzfree, but it feels a little high - is it?
Going to 1.75mm it Buzzes so much on first 4 frets duh...!
HOW IS YOUR TELE PLAYER? Tell me!
Mexican made Player series Telecaster, 2.25mm on 6th/5th string, 2mm 1st string. The action feels high to me so I will try to lower it more. Maybe this info helps: I use heavier strings on my Tele, 0.012in gauge. As far as I understood heavier strings can help with fret buzz as they don't move around as much, so maybe you can try a set of heavier strings, but be careful: the extra tension in the strings means you may need to perform a new setup.
@@florentin-petrusandu4422 got the same mex tele, also changed strings +setup done. I buzz only at first few frets on the low e and a a little.
I will lower it too, since I am a little high too. I will take the tip, to play more gently like fruciante, he knows what he does.
I am also 2.25mm ish currently!
Will go down to 2mm now. Hope no big buzzing
What’s the amp under the Orange Terror Bass head?
Gibson!
1mm setup? just ask Steve Vais tech 😵💫
My Mexican strat goes lower than my les paul ever could. My prs is better than every other guitar I own in every single way
Ha, tech tips, die mag ich 😄👌
Meine versuchs gitarre sieht schon aus wie 3 kilo frisch gehacktes holz 😄
Haha, das sollte auch ganz genau so sein! Was auf immer du vor hast, ausprobieren, von "Unfälle" lernen und Ärger sparen. Top! //Kris
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses lololoooooool ja, Unfälle 😄 schöner hätt ichs auch nicht sagen können bro 😄
Gibson lower than Fender ... of course:
- Gibson QS is worse🤮
- Gibson colors are worse 🤮
- even the custom shop is direr -> worse 🤮
- only low grade non experienced players buy ant try to play Gibsons 🥳
Wise players do corner Gibson and just take a Tele 😇