Thank you for covering the 1972 BBC version of Emma as well as the newer ones! The 1970/1980 collection of adaptations are among my favorites so I'm overjoyed when they're included in the Austen conversation!
12:15 I hadn't realised she was meant to be from Bristol and haven't seen this version (yet!), but yes, as a Bristolian myself, she sounds to me like someone with a strong West Country accent trying to sound very posh and cultured (notice the strong rhotic 'r', which is probably why other commenters mention American and Texan accents)!
My interpretation of Mrs. Elton's accent was that it was a play on rhotic accents still being common at the time that side of the Atlantic, but were unfashionable (sometimes, the Steeles in Sense and Sensibility are also portrayed with rhotic accents). Augusta Elton isn't well-educated, so it's probably supposed to be her trying to sound refined, and failing to. It was, incidentally, reported that Colonists deciding not to stay in North America after the formation of the United States were startled by changes in fashionable pronunciation.
Looking on Ewan McGregors hairstyle I loved it because such a hairstyle would be typical for the late 1790s but it would come with a hair braid. My greatest problem with all Jane Austen adaptations is that we see no hairpowder on gents. Even in the 1810s older men would have hair powder and it was even more in use for balls and other more official events. Some of the adaptations are looking as they show late 1790s men's clothes (although women in the same movies often have later clothing). It's somehow strange in McGrath's movie that the older men have more forward hairstyle then the dandy Frank Churchill.
I like the Andrew Davies Emma too. Particularly Knightley. As for Jane Robinson, she had played Mrs. Hurst so recently, maybe she was just trying to distinguish her new character strongly from the last?
Timestamps: 0:22 correction for the last video 1:54 intro 3:28 BBC's Emma (1972) 7:43 Emma (1992) by MIRAMAX 11:18 Emma (1996) made for television movie 15:56 outro
I am English and in my 70s. We did country dancing at school and many of them were very old country dances. Is it not possible that dances from a century before the Regency period were also used then too?
From reading primary Regency sources, historians are quite certain that they were not dancing any old Playford dances from the 1600-early1700s. There are some that back 30-50 years, but most are more current then that. The country dancing taught in English school curriculum are due to the efforts of Cecil Sharp, who rediscovered old dance manuals and modernized the dances he found for contemporary dancing in order to preserve English culture. In doing so, he eliminated all but the most basic footwork and taught dances from different historical eras side-by-side as if the dance form hadn't evolved in 150 years. All this is to say the way the Playford dances were reinterpreted by Sharp and others is different from how they would have been danced historically, and it tends to de-emphasize the differences between historical eras, presenting ECD as monolithic and unchanging, when it was actually a living, organic dance.
I think you were probably right after all. If there was no man in a little country town who could wrap his mind and tongue around the figures I'll bet some bright lady did it! Women were never credited for anything they did, and were forced to use male names to do any kind of business. Hey! I like tunes and dances from 70 years ago, that's the 1950s to you. The moldy oldies are still popular thank you! I'll bet the Austen crowd liked their oldies too. Music was often taught in rural areas by rote from grand father, to father to son, and so these dance tunes were persistant I'm sure.
Hi, I'm giving you a comment to support you. + I really enjoy your content. I hope that you will have examples of proper regency dances somewhere. From what i remember being told years ago is that the older British actually sounded more like what American does today. I don't know if that is true as I'm not a native speaker of either British or American English, and it was in a discussion about your crazy legal common law systems. Mainland Europe over here with codex juris. Well, I'm of to your next video. See you there.Yours, Ann
I think that the wierd accent was possibly trying to be slightly American as Bristol was a common port for transatlantic voyages but it doesn't sound at all like a modern bristolian accent like Stephen Merchant speaks.
@UChYzz1WhDbws-ZiWdZPyfzg If you're from the West Country, then you'll know how much accents vary. Just take Devon, for example - a multitude of regional variations. In this case though, I think that the actress is trying to accentuate Mr.Elton's provinciality in stark contrast to Emma, who's from Surrey. I think only an American could suggest she was trying to sound American - why do you think Americans sound as they do? - The answers are mostly- because of Ireland and West Country. And of course we have to bear in mind that the modern West Country is not as broad as it was 200 years ago, and the native Bristolians I'd met didn't have a pronounced accent. Ah, it's best not to start me on accents and languages- I get carried away. :)
"Nobody would be fording a creek in Regency Britain because they had a well-maintained system of roads and lots and lots of bridges," -- I'm sorry but you are mistaken. We still have fords in England (e.g. the ford over the River Loddon in Berkshire). Common sense might suggest that there are fords in Britain as the Gwyneth-Paltrow-stuck-in-a-ford scene appears to have been filmed in a ford. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your videos. But you're mistaken in your statement about fords.
I stand corrected. I'm always happy to learn new things. Thanks for the correction. I'll be sure to mention this in a comment response video. Apologies for not getting back to this until now,. I've had a sick cat, and haven't been checking the comments the last few weeks (the cat is fully recovered now, thankfully.)
@@teawithcassiane8431 Concurring with the comment from Tris Swain, I would go further and assert that 18thC roads in England were not generally well maintained except to and from London. The first Turnpike Act was in 1663, and dozens followed throughout the 1700s and early 1800s. Each Act gave permission for a certain stretch of road, perhaps several miles long, to be made good (i.e. drained, and metalled with stones -- no tarmac surface) by a Trust funded by rich local philanthropists or by parish councils. The money was recouped -- or not, in many cases -- by travellers being stopped at one end of the road by a tollhouse with rope or gate, and requested to pay toll according to whether they were on foot, riding, driving a carriage etc. There is tons of fascinating info on this, with lots of extracts from sources of the time, at www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol4/pp254-271 (road map of SW UK which JA knew well) and www.turnpikes.org.uk/Somerset%20-%20Black%20Dog.htm But plenty of roads were just cart-tracks. For example, the House of Commons Report for 6 Dec. 1757 describes the road between Lyme Regis and Uplyme as 'in a ruinous condition, narrow in many places and very steep and uneven and by reason of the waters in the winter season unpassable at divers places and very dangerous to travellers cannot be repaired, widened by present methods'. Luckily for JA, a Turnpike Trust was set up in 1758 and by 1780 the main coach road to Bath was reasonably well repaired, though other nearby roads were passable only by horses or pedestrians -- not wheeled transport of any sort. Bridges and fords that had their own Trusts would usually be fairly safe. Otherwise . . . Excuse this long post. I wonder how JA and family, and their contemporaries, managed such frequent journeys to stay with various relatives or visit Spa towns: astonishing when one considers the uncomfortable travel!
Regarding holding a skirt as a 'no-no': did things change over time? Because THE LADIES' BOOK OF ETIQUETTE, AND MANUAL OF POLITENESS (1860) says: 'When moving in the figures, hold out your skirt a little with the right hand, merely to clear the ground, and prevent the possibility of treading upon it'.
I actually misspoke about this a little. I meant to say "hiking your skirts," because holding WAS allowed, but hiking it up was not. I'm interested to hear about this in the Victorian Era because of the structured petticoats. Usually structured petticoats mean that you didn't need to hold your skirts because the petticoat held it out for you. Ballgown hem lengths were typically shorter to prevent them being trod upon, but perhaps this was more in theory than in practice in the 1860s or perhaps trains were more fashionable? Trains were fashionable in the 1790s -1800s, but ladies pinned their trains for dancing, which Austen describes in "Northanger Abbey." By the 1810s trains fell out of fashion, so this wasn't so much of an issue.
@@petalchild You're absolutely right. I suffer from deep depression and CPTSD. Or maybe I can't say both since CPTSD covers a range of problems. Since watching Cassiane for a while now, I find her more likable. I hope she forgives me.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you for covering the 1972 BBC version of Emma as well as the newer ones! The 1970/1980 collection of adaptations are among my favorites so I'm overjoyed when they're included in the Austen conversation!
12:15 I hadn't realised she was meant to be from Bristol and haven't seen this version (yet!), but yes, as a Bristolian myself, she sounds to me like someone with a strong West Country accent trying to sound very posh and cultured (notice the strong rhotic 'r', which is probably why other commenters mention American and Texan accents)!
The cognitive dissonance of bothering to put on a bonnet with a short sleeved evening gown is just...
Mrs. Elton's accent is the West Country accent. Not surprising, if she's from Bristol.
RE: 97 Mrs Elton - THNK YOU OMG. i could not stand that accent she sounded almost Texan!
My interpretation of Mrs. Elton's accent was that it was a play on rhotic accents still being common at the time that side of the Atlantic, but were unfashionable (sometimes, the Steeles in Sense and Sensibility are also portrayed with rhotic accents). Augusta Elton isn't well-educated, so it's probably supposed to be her trying to sound refined, and failing to. It was, incidentally, reported that Colonists deciding not to stay in North America after the formation of the United States were startled by changes in fashionable pronunciation.
You are amazing, I love your videos and am sharing them with my daughters.
Looking on Ewan McGregors hairstyle I loved it because such a hairstyle would be typical for the late 1790s but it would come with a hair braid. My greatest problem with all Jane Austen adaptations is that we see no hairpowder on gents. Even in the 1810s older men would have hair powder and it was even more in use for balls and other more official events. Some of the adaptations are looking as they show late 1790s men's clothes (although women in the same movies often have later clothing). It's somehow strange in McGrath's movie that the older men have more forward hairstyle then the dandy Frank Churchill.
I like the Andrew Davies Emma too. Particularly Knightley. As for Jane Robinson, she had played Mrs. Hurst so recently, maybe she was just trying to distinguish her new character strongly from the last?
The ITV Emma is available as a series, not just a telly-movie.
Timestamps:
0:22 correction for the last video
1:54 intro
3:28 BBC's Emma (1972)
7:43 Emma (1992) by MIRAMAX
11:18 Emma (1996) made for television movie
15:56 outro
This was awesome! I loved what you did for Virtual Jane Con and I really enjoyed this!
I am English and in my 70s. We did country dancing at school and many of them were very old country dances. Is it not possible that dances from a century before the Regency period were also used then too?
From reading primary Regency sources, historians are quite certain that they were not dancing any old Playford dances from the 1600-early1700s. There are some that back 30-50 years, but most are more current then that. The country dancing taught in English school curriculum are due to the efforts of Cecil Sharp, who rediscovered old dance manuals and modernized the dances he found for contemporary dancing in order to preserve English culture. In doing so, he eliminated all but the most basic footwork and taught dances from different historical eras side-by-side as if the dance form hadn't evolved in 150 years. All this is to say the way the Playford dances were reinterpreted by Sharp and others is different from how they would have been danced historically, and it tends to de-emphasize the differences between historical eras, presenting ECD as monolithic and unchanging, when it was actually a living, organic dance.
The lady with the supposed Bristol accent sounded American to me, with her hard R in "gaRden of SuRRey." I myself am from America, if that helps.
I think you were probably right after all. If there was no man in a little country town who could wrap his mind and tongue around the figures I'll bet some bright lady did it! Women were never credited for anything they did, and were forced to use male names to do any kind of business. Hey! I like tunes and dances from 70 years ago, that's the 1950s to you. The moldy oldies are still popular thank you! I'll bet the Austen crowd liked their oldies too. Music was often taught in rural areas by rote from grand father, to father to son, and so these dance tunes were persistant I'm sure.
Hi, I'm giving you a comment to support you. + I really enjoy your content. I hope that you will have examples of proper regency dances somewhere. From what i remember being told years ago is that the older British actually sounded more like what American does today. I don't know if that is true as I'm not a native speaker of either British or American English, and it was in a discussion about your crazy legal common law systems. Mainland Europe over here with codex juris. Well, I'm of to your next video. See you there.Yours, Ann
I think that the wierd accent was possibly trying to be slightly American as Bristol was a common port for transatlantic voyages but it doesn't sound at all like a modern bristolian accent like Stephen Merchant speaks.
It's not a weird accent, at all - It's a West Country accent. Your suggestion that she's trying to sound American is rather absurd,
@UChYzz1WhDbws-ZiWdZPyfzg If you're from the West Country, then you'll know how much accents vary. Just take Devon, for example - a multitude of regional variations. In this case though, I think that the actress is trying to accentuate Mr.Elton's provinciality in stark contrast to Emma, who's from Surrey. I think only an American could suggest she was trying to sound American - why do you think Americans sound as they do? - The answers are mostly- because of Ireland and West Country. And of course we have to bear in mind that the modern West Country is not as broad as it was 200 years ago, and the native Bristolians I'd met didn't have a pronounced accent. Ah, it's best not to start me on accents and languages- I get carried away. :)
Love your videos!
"Nobody would be fording a creek in Regency Britain because they had a well-maintained system of roads and lots and lots of bridges," -- I'm sorry but you are mistaken. We still have fords in England (e.g. the ford over the River Loddon in Berkshire). Common sense might suggest that there are fords in Britain as the Gwyneth-Paltrow-stuck-in-a-ford scene appears to have been filmed in a ford. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy your videos. But you're mistaken in your statement about fords.
I stand corrected. I'm always happy to learn new things. Thanks for the correction. I'll be sure to mention this in a comment response video. Apologies for not getting back to this until now,. I've had a sick cat, and haven't been checking the comments the last few weeks (the cat is fully recovered now, thankfully.)
@@teawithcassiane8431 Concurring with the comment from Tris Swain, I would go further and assert that 18thC roads in England were not generally well maintained except to and from London. The first Turnpike Act was in 1663, and dozens followed throughout the 1700s and early 1800s. Each Act gave permission for a certain stretch of road, perhaps several miles long, to be made good (i.e. drained, and metalled with stones -- no tarmac surface) by a Trust funded by rich local philanthropists or by parish councils. The money was recouped -- or not, in many cases -- by travellers being stopped at one end of the road by a tollhouse with rope or gate, and requested to pay toll according to whether they were on foot, riding, driving a carriage etc.
There is tons of fascinating info on this, with lots of extracts from sources of the time, at www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol4/pp254-271 (road map of SW UK which JA knew well) and www.turnpikes.org.uk/Somerset%20-%20Black%20Dog.htm But plenty of roads were just cart-tracks. For example, the House of Commons Report for 6 Dec. 1757 describes the road between Lyme Regis and Uplyme as 'in a ruinous condition, narrow in many places and very steep and uneven and by reason of the waters in the winter season unpassable at divers places and very dangerous to travellers cannot be repaired, widened by present methods'. Luckily for JA, a Turnpike Trust was set up in 1758 and by 1780 the main coach road to Bath was reasonably well repaired, though other nearby roads were passable only by horses or pedestrians -- not wheeled transport of any sort. Bridges and fords that had their own Trusts would usually be fairly safe. Otherwise . . .
Excuse this long post. I wonder how JA and family, and their contemporaries, managed such frequent journeys to stay with various relatives or visit Spa towns: astonishing when one considers the uncomfortable travel!
Regarding holding a skirt as a 'no-no': did things change over time? Because THE LADIES' BOOK OF ETIQUETTE, AND MANUAL OF POLITENESS (1860) says: 'When moving in the figures, hold out your skirt a little with the right hand, merely to clear the ground, and prevent the possibility of treading upon it'.
I actually misspoke about this a little. I meant to say "hiking your skirts," because holding WAS allowed, but hiking it up was not. I'm interested to hear about this in the Victorian Era because of the structured petticoats. Usually structured petticoats mean that you didn't need to hold your skirts because the petticoat held it out for you. Ballgown hem lengths were typically shorter to prevent them being trod upon, but perhaps this was more in theory than in practice in the 1860s or perhaps trains were more fashionable? Trains were fashionable in the 1790s -1800s, but ladies pinned their trains for dancing, which Austen describes in "Northanger Abbey." By the 1810s trains fell out of fashion, so this wasn't so much of an issue.
Why so many maggots?
Maggot was slang for a fancy or a hot idea. Kind of like how modern English would say a brain worm.
What else did you get wrong because you just 'read into it?'
Something is certainly wrong with you, for feeling the need to be so incredibly rude.
@@petalchild You're absolutely right. I suffer from deep depression and CPTSD. Or maybe I can't say both since CPTSD covers a range of problems. Since watching Cassiane for a while now, I find her more likable. I hope she forgives me.
And oh my goodness, your dress is entirely wrong.