The original lithium batteries contained lithium metal anodes but dendrites/whiskers caused safety issues. Sony brought out the graphite anode with their camcorder and rebranded as "Li-ion" to help distinguish them. Almost all commercial Li-ion batteries use graphite (with some silicon) as the anode. The push to solid state batteries aim to use lithium metal anodes to increase energy density (and suppress dendrites). Hope that helps!
I like the length and format of the film , but I am now looking for a longer lecture covering the same material , is their one available from the RI I wonder?
it would be good to consider formats or designs that would make the materials recoverable and recyclable. Perhaps something like being able to unroll the layers the way film was unwound from cartridges so it can be processed....
@@Joe-Dead that is of course true. What I am suggesting is there may be designs that make the materials more easily retrieved, separated and processed to reduce the cost of recycling.
@@i18nGuy you can't. the cost isn't how the batteries are made, it's chemically separating everything at scale. secondly you have to design a battery...to be a battery and that limits choices otherwise you don't have battery or a very poor battery compared to everyone else making good batteries.
I have some large 10-20ah 6s lithium polymer packs that have puffed into circles. What am I supposed to do with them? The local dump won't take them. And I can't find any recycling facilities that take these.
@vylbird8014 Crazy part is I have a few hundred others just waiting to do the same thing. I've been acquiring lipo packs for about 15 years now, most are out of IR balance and of no use. Was used for large scale rc stuff.
I went into town to drop my old phone in for recycling. The first place I went to that said it did on the net said they didn't and told me somewhere else to go, that place told me somewhere else to go and that third place didn't do it either. I had to chuck it in the general waste at home.
@@Safetytrousers Tends to happen. The problem is that the spicy pillow is on the verge of fiery, toxic poof. One good knock and a bit of bad luck and it doesn't just catch fire, even the fumes from the fire are poisonous. Couriers won't carry them without expensive precautions, so it's just not economical. The safe disposal costs are so high that the cells just get passed over until someone is willing to go for unsafe disposal. The lithium isn't the problem - you can make that safe just by exposing it to oxygen for a bit. It's the electrolyte. Organic solvents with fluorine in that form hydrofluoric acid when burned, one of those 'nope' chemicals that is both corrosive and toxic in the extreme.
@Safetytrousers Unless I want to plan a road trip, my only option would be sneaking it in the waste transfer place. I placed a 6s pack on a light bulb load for about a week. Disconnected it, and a few days later, it had 15 volts. Still technically dead, but dangerous. I am really concerned about poking holes through these as some say to do before dunking in saltwater.
The explanation is incorrect. Maybe it's trying to dumb down for the audience, but during discharge, it is the Cobalt that is reduced from Co3+ to Co2+ and in the Li+ intercalates as LiCoO2. The Li does not recombine with the electrons, otherwise there would no voltage. This is a science channel, be precise
I would love to see a similar video just for Na batteries, which also includes advantages and disadvantages of Li vs. Na and the future prospects. As far as I know the supply of Li might become an issue in the future with the world wanting more and more batteries, so would be nice to learn something about the possible solutions to that :D
It is likely to become a problem in the future, but right now it's cheap enough to be treated as disposable. You can find free batteries in the street. Every disposable vape contains a reusable lithium cell, but they are so cheap that they aren't even worth the cost of collecting them for recycling.
Li is *NOT* rare. We have plenty of Li for the foreseeable future, but like most all natural resources it requires capital investment years in advance. The big issue with Li is that the evaporation ponds look very weird and that freaks out irrational far-left virtue signaling pretend environmentalists.
Do a follow up on all aspects of recycling lithium and lithium-ion batteries and make it 12 minutes. Google search says only 5 % are recycled world-wide. Unacceptable!
Look up Li-cycle and the many other recycling companies. There are still too few dead batteries , but they are scaling up to meet the rising demand for a closed loop industry
There's a new recycling plant that recycles all Lithium batteries....phone to EVs. They use an interesting technology..wish I remembered it's name. It's on TH-cam.
Na-ion are made the same way - that's why their are being commercialized. Li-ion batteries did the hard bit... :) Plus Na-ion strong competition now with L(M)FP on cost with better performance
It's good that scientists and engineers are working on reducing the carbon footprint of manufacturing lithium batteries, but society's obsession with this issue is wildly misplaced. New EV batteries can have a lifespan exceeding 500,000 km. A LICE vehicle will burn over 30,000 liters of gasoline into the atmosphere during its lifespan. What's more costly: _A one-time fee of $50 or a monthly fee of $20 in perpetuity?_
"Can have" is doing a lot of work here. I "can have" a space station, if I can afford it and can wait ten years. Unfortunately for consumers, they can't afford these batteries, and society cannot wait for them to mature. The solution today, as it was nearly 100 years ago, is replacing the majority of car and freight travel with electrified rail networks.
@@Valkyrie9000 Contrary to popular narratives, not everyone is poor. Many millions of families can afford nice EVs. Besides, the new budget EVs are pretty cheap and their TOC is actually LOWER than similar class LICE vehicles. Economic progress is the best way to reduce poverty. Nothing is solved by constantly objecting to progress because _"What about the poor?"_
@@DemPilafian Which EV has a battery that will retain even 70% of its original capacity after doing 300,000 km let alone 500,000 km under normal charging/ discharging conditions?
I hate to break it to this guy but I will never use an EV ever. That's because the tech is too embedded in the product. Tech that's controlled by others.
Take down this video. Remove the music and re-upload. Just un-watchable with the loud music. The TH-cam stock library will be fine. Don't you worry none.
The best explanation of lithium batteries that I have ever seen. Thanks for the educational video!
Thank you - RI and FI did a fantastic job!
It is amazing how many ways carbon is used in today's technology.
Fantastic presentation Mr. Piper. Thanks!
Wonderful presentation, thanks Piper
Very clear. It would be helpful to distinguish between lithium batteries and lithium ion batteries.
The original lithium batteries contained lithium metal anodes but dendrites/whiskers caused safety issues. Sony brought out the graphite anode with their camcorder and rebranded as "Li-ion" to help distinguish them. Almost all commercial Li-ion batteries use graphite (with some silicon) as the anode. The push to solid state batteries aim to use lithium metal anodes to increase energy density (and suppress dendrites). Hope that helps!
@@louispiper973 Thank you. and Li-ion batteries can be recharged and Li-metal cannot?
@@jamesraymond1158 Both are rechargeable. The issue is how long, Li-metal batteries fail quickly when the dendrites form...
I like the length and format of the film , but I am now looking for a longer lecture covering the same material , is their one available from the RI I wonder?
it would be good to consider formats or designs that would make the materials recoverable and recyclable. Perhaps something like being able to unroll the layers the way film was unwound from cartridges so it can be processed....
they are recoverable and recyclable, just right now the cost of recycling is greater than the cost of buying the raw materials for new ones.
@@Joe-Dead that is of course true. What I am suggesting is there may be designs that make the materials more easily retrieved, separated and processed to reduce the cost of recycling.
@@i18nGuy you can't. the cost isn't how the batteries are made, it's chemically separating everything at scale. secondly you have to design a battery...to be a battery and that limits choices otherwise you don't have battery or a very poor battery compared to everyone else making good batteries.
I have some large 10-20ah 6s lithium polymer packs that have puffed into circles. What am I supposed to do with them? The local dump won't take them. And I can't find any recycling facilities that take these.
The 'spicy pillows.' There often aren't any legitimate means of disposal. I sneak them into the e-waste disposal pickups at work.
@vylbird8014 Crazy part is I have a few hundred others just waiting to do the same thing. I've been acquiring lipo packs for about 15 years now, most are out of IR balance and of no use. Was used for large scale rc stuff.
I went into town to drop my old phone in for recycling. The first place I went to that said it did on the net said they didn't and told me somewhere else to go, that place told me somewhere else to go and that third place didn't do it either. I had to chuck it in the general waste at home.
@@Safetytrousers Tends to happen. The problem is that the spicy pillow is on the verge of fiery, toxic poof. One good knock and a bit of bad luck and it doesn't just catch fire, even the fumes from the fire are poisonous. Couriers won't carry them without expensive precautions, so it's just not economical. The safe disposal costs are so high that the cells just get passed over until someone is willing to go for unsafe disposal.
The lithium isn't the problem - you can make that safe just by exposing it to oxygen for a bit. It's the electrolyte. Organic solvents with fluorine in that form hydrofluoric acid when burned, one of those 'nope' chemicals that is both corrosive and toxic in the extreme.
@Safetytrousers Unless I want to plan a road trip, my only option would be sneaking it in the waste transfer place.
I placed a 6s pack on a light bulb load for about a week. Disconnected it, and a few days later, it had 15 volts. Still technically dead, but dangerous. I am really concerned about poking holes through these as some say to do before dunking in saltwater.
THANKS !
The explanation is incorrect. Maybe it's trying to dumb down for the audience, but during discharge, it is the Cobalt that is reduced from Co3+ to Co2+ and in the Li+ intercalates as LiCoO2. The Li does not recombine with the electrons, otherwise there would no voltage. This is a science channel, be precise
Yeah, he sounds dumb. It's obviously CoNq24 negatively pulsing Bg45Hg dumb dumb. Thanks dude. You rule
Co3+/4+ for the redox to be precise
Was hoping to learn how/why they degrade over time. What the electrolyte chemical is and why there is a fire risk.
I dont know why youd expect any of that in a general synopsis
I would love to see a similar video just for Na batteries, which also includes advantages and disadvantages of Li vs. Na and the future prospects. As far as I know the supply of Li might become an issue in the future with the world wanting more and more batteries, so would be nice to learn something about the possible solutions to that :D
It is likely to become a problem in the future, but right now it's cheap enough to be treated as disposable. You can find free batteries in the street. Every disposable vape contains a reusable lithium cell, but they are so cheap that they aren't even worth the cost of collecting them for recycling.
Li is *NOT* rare. We have plenty of Li for the foreseeable future, but like most all natural resources it requires capital investment years in advance. The big issue with Li is that the evaporation ponds look very weird and that freaks out irrational far-left virtue signaling pretend environmentalists.
interesting. I just added a new solar panel and one of those batteries to my camper. the video explained it in a way i understood
Do a follow up on all aspects of recycling lithium and lithium-ion batteries and make it 12 minutes. Google search says only 5 % are recycled world-wide. Unacceptable!
Look up Li-cycle and the many other recycling companies. There are still too few dead batteries , but they are scaling up to meet the rising demand for a closed loop industry
Governments need to make subsidies for it to be recycled because right now it's cheaper to send to landfill 😞
@@user-xi8sf8xl7r subsidizing activities that are not sustainable is counterproductive. We could be utilizing those resources better.
There's a new recycling plant that recycles all Lithium batteries....phone to EVs.
They use an interesting technology..wish I remembered it's name.
It's on TH-cam.
@@JusticeAlways you can recycle batteries at home. Just throw them into a fire. Recycled!
Those sheets look like forbidden seaweed!
Mark, I have some Timex watches to recommend too…when your Casio breaks😊
"isnt it nice to watch some historic documentation?"
"Na- i on the future track."
Na-ion are made the same way - that's why their are being commercialized. Li-ion batteries did the hard bit... :) Plus Na-ion strong competition now with L(M)FP on cost with better performance
@@louispiper973 agree! i just used the opportunity for a witty comment... :)
Good presentation. My real concern with batteries is the issue of safety. I'd trade some performance for a safe battery.
So usable electrons actually are a byproduct of ions being moved?
4:51 what the heck is that on her head? O.o
It is a safety helmet/visor that supplies fresh air, but she has the visor up in that video. Search for "3M PAPR Respirator, Versaflo"
From what i found it is something like this: "3M Supplied Air Respirator Systems" So you can breathe savely. Looks quite bizarre to be honest. :D
For mixing the coating cathodes we use NMP as a solvent (water for anodes)- this is safety equipment and really important - good spot
How do rechargeable batteries work?
Great video, simple explanation as it should be. I see Atomic batteries being the gateway for phasers in the medical field.
Maybe watch this later who knows
may i correct you you know about the chemistry only for that i give you my respect
but what do you know from electricity and use it
to make it clear able to build a battery but not able to tun the whole place on it
He was really saying somefink.
So basically half the battery is empty. It's like a sandwich shame you can't make a big Mac with one extra empty bread in the middle?
Fun fact: There's no "M" in sandwich.
When they are spent what then ? How expensive is it going to be to get rid of this product??
If you want to find out what's inside a Li-ion battery, just cut one open & have a look.
I'm kidding, don't actually do that.
It's good that scientists and engineers are working on reducing the carbon footprint of manufacturing lithium batteries, but society's obsession with this issue is wildly misplaced. New EV batteries can have a lifespan exceeding 500,000 km. A LICE vehicle will burn over 30,000 liters of gasoline into the atmosphere during its lifespan. What's more costly: _A one-time fee of $50 or a monthly fee of $20 in perpetuity?_
"Can have" is doing a lot of work here. I "can have" a space station, if I can afford it and can wait ten years. Unfortunately for consumers, they can't afford these batteries, and society cannot wait for them to mature.
The solution today, as it was nearly 100 years ago, is replacing the majority of car and freight travel with electrified rail networks.
@@Valkyrie9000 Contrary to popular narratives, not everyone is poor. Many millions of families can afford nice EVs. Besides, the new budget EVs are pretty cheap and their TOC is actually LOWER than similar class LICE vehicles.
Economic progress is the best way to reduce poverty. Nothing is solved by constantly objecting to progress because _"What about the poor?"_
@@DemPilafian Which EV has a battery that will retain even 70% of its original capacity after doing 300,000 km let alone 500,000 km under normal charging/ discharging conditions?
Yer Mum
To produce Lithium there are a lot of water consumption quantity
I hate to break it to this guy but I will never use an EV ever. That's because the tech is too embedded in the product. Tech that's controlled by others.
MUURICAAAA XD
Take down this video. Remove the music and re-upload. Just un-watchable with the loud music. The TH-cam stock library will be fine. Don't you worry none.
I'm sure RI developers will be contacting you in a fortnight to have you do the remake,LOL
Sounded fine to me