Great episode. I got a bit emotional at the end when Conrad explained the final days of World Class. I wish these kids today understood what World Class meant to the business. Especially in the early to Mid 80's. All they know is the tragedies that came from it. Man. RIP World Class Championship Wrestling.
I can remember watching all this on tv. Remember the whole thing. Sad days. But it needs to be told. I need to hear Jerry’s POV. Loved all the characters and it’s almost like when ECW ended. You didn’t think the news was true. Love it
A blow for sure, but not the 'final' nail. We ran under the World Class banner with national TV until 95, still ran regularly until 99, and had sporadic events until we rejoined the NWA where it was rebranded as NWA On Fire. Great job on the show! Loved hearing it from the Jarretts prospective
I love this episode. Conrad Thompson informed and excellent as always. Ihave always loved WCCW and the Von Erichs. It's hard not to feel for them because of all of their tragedies, which is probably the worst of all tragedies in wrestling history. That said, this changes my view on the whole matter. If you watch WWE's DVD on WCCW, it makes Jerry Jarrett look bad. This podcast really sets the story straight. Praise to Jeff for not raging against Kevin Von Erich or even sounding bitter. I have always liked JJ, but I like him more now.
Grey Pierson was an attorney my dad used from time to time in business deals in Dallas. Grey leased an office space from my dad's office building in Arlington for several years. I remember talking to Grey a lot as a kid and avid wrestling/Von Erich fan. This was at the time that all this was happening in the early 90s. Grey had tried to recruit my dad as an investor in GWF as that is what my dad did for a living. Investment Banking. My dad wasn't interested in it. Mostly because he went to college at West Texas State and played football with DiBiase, Tito Santana, Stan Hansen and was good friends with a much older Dory Funk Sr. And he knew the drug use many wrestlers were doing. We lived in Grapevine where many WCCW wrestles lived and worked out at the Grapevine Racquetball Club. By this time it was common knowledge that local wrestling was dying and that the Von Erichs were a mess. Grey was very kind too me and my brothers and when he started GWF would give me dozens of tickets to give out for shows. Only went to 1 and there just wasn't much big talent there and little to no enthusiasm about it. Grey told my dad the reason he backed out of that lawsuit is bc he thought the boys were too screwed up as well as heavily influenced by their dad and his misguided love for them. Doris always blamed Fritz and their divorce was based on it. Grey didn't have faith in the boys and no longer wanted to be apart of it once evidence came to light about all of it. He also had decided to start his own promotion seeing the hole being left by Jarrett leaving and the Von Erichs falling apart. He knew he couldn't do both. Ultimately it all failed. Wrestling was changing to a tv sport and big event live show. Wrestlers were dying already and no shows were common because of the drug and alcohol abuse. They were wearing out there welcome and also it was becoming more common knowledge it was all fake. So the faith was dying as well. Kayfabe couldn't be kept up. With WWF having dumbass ideas like Doink and other nonsense characters it was obvious it wasn't real. After the Ultimate Warrior run I too was out on pro wrestling. For me and many others....the early 90s wasn't just the death of WCCW... It was the death of the golden Era of pro wrestling. Just an old anecdote to add to this great podcast episode oh and I met Kerry and Kevin numerous times as well as warrior. All great guys too us. Even mistook warrior for Kerry once.
I was in Israel in the Summer of 85 when World Class toured there and it was CRAZY how over it was. Von Erich t shirts sold all over the market in Jerusalem. Everybody stopped to watch their TV on Sunday evenings,
Regarding the knife...some time before this, there had been a match at the Cotton Bowl between Kerry and Lawler that was a Texas Death match. On TV during the buildup, they said--many time--on television that Kerry and Lawler "can bring anything they want to the ring *except a knife or a gun*"! They knew their fanbase well enough to know that if they say the wrestlers can use any weapon they want...that those fans would logically and immediately think that a knife or gun would be involved unless they were specifically told otherwise!
He certainly doesn't the whole angle with him at the trying to get back being able to wrestle then asking to referee angle was one of the best I've ever seen
Why ANYONE would choose a "Killer" Brooks product over quality Jerry Jarrett wrestling is BEYOND ME! Just because he's Texan, and people there like what's familiar, C'MON!--its KILLER FREAKIN BROOKS! What kind of match making skills would that "ham and egger" possess?
I was never sad to see Mark Lawrence gone. He clearly wasn't even close to being in the same league with Jim Ross, Gordon Solie, Tony Schiavone, or Lance Russell. CWA had better play-by-play announcing in TV studio punching bag/squash matches, than WCCW announcers calling a main event match inside an auditorium!
Jarret @ 1:03:00 - Bless their heart is southern for "**** you Meltzer", and in Southern dialect, can be one of the most insulting terms you could throw at someone. You never want to get a "Bless your Heart" from a Southerner, trust me. You done did a no-no.
It doesn't take talent for someone to really hit a person for real. I have to agree with Flair on this one, he's a glorified stunt man. And that can be entertaining, but not even close to a Mt Rushmore of wrestling.
I DONT see how the dirt sheet that said WWF lost money with only 3,000 Fans attending with the arena rent being $30,000 a night. If tickets was only $20&U no ringside is way more than $20. THATS $60,000 AT only charging a ticket. Then u got WWF programs for sell& then the MERCH booth. I no they still had to pay talent but I think they wud still have plenty left out of $60,000
The tickets didn’t average $20 a piece. If you google image house show posters from events at the time none of them advertised ticket prices being that high: the most common range of ticket prices from 5 or so house show posters surrounding the date this show happened at the highest end was $10 - $16 but the top advertised ticket price were generally around $15. So a more realistic average would be multiplying out like $12 not $20. So the gross gate would be an amount hovering around $36K like the $12 price. For example, the average amount paid per ticket for survivor series in 1990 if you compare the reported live gate compared to the paid attendance was $16.62 so reasonable that if a PPV had an average cost per ticket sold of that number that a random house show would have a lower average so if you assumed it was $12 per ticket the gate would be $36K gross and then you’d need to deduct the taxes, pay the talent, and any other costs that factor in like travel and so on. So would be fairly easy to see how a venue with that level of rent and an attendance of 3,000 for one of that days three hours shows since this was the time period where they ran three cities every night. So safe to assume ticket prices wouldn’t be as high as $20 as an average just by looking at the average for more prominent shows that people are going to be willing to pay more to attend and browse house show posters around the same time. Then consider that they were getting anywhere close to filling arenas in the bulk of the house shows so prices would scale to a lower average to try and pump up the number being sold. But even if they did find a way to sneak out a profit for the event in a venue with a hometown draw like the Von Erichs who had been historically major draws in the Dallas area they’d be extremely disappointed profit or no profit to have brought in an audience of 3,000 in a venue that was around 17-18K of capacity for hockey and basketball games. So realistically the profit talk doesn’t matter all that much anyways because with a crowd that size the profit number isn’t going to be anything of note and then factor into things the number they were hoping for considering that a low scale estimate is that there was a potential capacity of 12,000 more seats to sell if the same average of $12 was used which would’ve been +/- $140K of revenue potential in ticket sales and the difference between the profit levels through a top line comparison.
Great episode. I got a bit emotional at the end when Conrad explained the final days of World Class. I wish these kids today understood what World Class meant to the business. Especially in the early to Mid 80's. All they know is the tragedies that came from it. Man. RIP World Class Championship Wrestling.
The Golden era of wrestling
The last 30 minutes of the podcast was amazing! Great information and it awesome chronological order. Thank you for the great research!
I can remember watching all this on tv. Remember the whole thing. Sad days. But it needs to be told. I need to hear Jerry’s POV. Loved all the characters and it’s almost like when ECW ended. You didn’t think the news was true. Love it
A blow for sure, but not the 'final' nail. We ran under the World Class banner with national TV until 95, still ran regularly until 99, and had sporadic events until we rejoined the NWA where it was rebranded as NWA On Fire.
Great job on the show! Loved hearing it from the Jarretts prospective
As a child Kevin was my Hulk Hogan, wow great story didn't know Kevin was a no show.
World Class Championship Wrestling was real.
I love this episode. Conrad Thompson informed and excellent as always. Ihave always loved WCCW and the Von Erichs. It's hard not to feel for them because of all of their tragedies, which is probably the worst of all tragedies in wrestling history. That said, this changes my view on the whole matter. If you watch WWE's DVD on WCCW, it makes Jerry Jarrett look bad. This podcast really sets the story straight. Praise to Jeff for not raging against Kevin Von Erich or even sounding bitter. I have always liked JJ, but I like him more now.
Grey Pierson was an attorney my dad used from time to time in business deals in Dallas. Grey leased an office space from my dad's office building in Arlington for several years. I remember talking to Grey a lot as a kid and avid wrestling/Von Erich fan. This was at the time that all this was happening in the early 90s. Grey had tried to recruit my dad as an investor in GWF as that is what my dad did for a living. Investment Banking. My dad wasn't interested in it. Mostly because he went to college at West Texas State and played football with DiBiase, Tito Santana, Stan Hansen and was good friends with a much older Dory Funk Sr. And he knew the drug use many wrestlers were doing. We lived in Grapevine where many WCCW wrestles lived and worked out at the Grapevine Racquetball Club. By this time it was common knowledge that local wrestling was dying and that the Von Erichs were a mess. Grey was very kind too me and my brothers and when he started GWF would give me dozens of tickets to give out for shows. Only went to 1 and there just wasn't much big talent there and little to no enthusiasm about it. Grey told my dad the reason he backed out of that lawsuit is bc he thought the boys were too screwed up as well as heavily influenced by their dad and his misguided love for them. Doris always blamed Fritz and their divorce was based on it. Grey didn't have faith in the boys and no longer wanted to be apart of it once evidence came to light about all of it. He also had decided to start his own promotion seeing the hole being left by Jarrett leaving and the Von Erichs falling apart. He knew he couldn't do both. Ultimately it all failed. Wrestling was changing to a tv sport and big event live show. Wrestlers were dying already and no shows were common because of the drug and alcohol abuse. They were wearing out there welcome and also it was becoming more common knowledge it was all fake. So the faith was dying as well. Kayfabe couldn't be kept up. With WWF having dumbass ideas like Doink and other nonsense characters it was obvious it wasn't real. After the Ultimate Warrior run I too was out on pro wrestling. For me and many others....the early 90s wasn't just the death of WCCW... It was the death of the golden Era of pro wrestling. Just an old anecdote to add to this great podcast episode oh and I met Kerry and Kevin numerous times as well as warrior. All great guys too us. Even mistook warrior for Kerry once.
I was in Israel in the Summer of 85 when World Class toured there and it was CRAZY how over it was. Von Erich t shirts sold all over the market in Jerusalem. Everybody stopped to watch their TV on Sunday evenings,
Regarding the knife...some time before this, there had been a match at the Cotton Bowl between Kerry and Lawler that was a Texas Death match. On TV during the buildup, they said--many time--on television that Kerry and Lawler "can bring anything they want to the ring *except a knife or a gun*"! They knew their fanbase well enough to know that if they say the wrestlers can use any weapon they want...that those fans would logically and immediately think that a knife or gun would be involved unless they were specifically told otherwise!
love learning stuff
facts
The legal complaint made the entire episode 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆
"They didn't friggin show up!" 🤣🤣🤣
World Class Championship Wrestling was the golden era like old school hip hop music….
They mistook the Sportatorium for a homeless shelter. Who could blame them?
Especially when a homeless looking guy like Eric Embry was actually LIVING there!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Eric Embry doesn't get enough love
He certainly doesn't the whole angle with him at the trying to get back being able to wrestle then asking to referee angle was one of the best I've ever seen
Hey Conrad Thompson Taras Bullba. Was Juan Reynosa
When Christian showed up I thought that was gonna be Scott Steiner
Why ANYONE would choose a "Killer" Brooks product over quality Jerry Jarrett wrestling is BEYOND ME! Just because he's Texan, and people there like what's familiar, C'MON!--its KILLER FREAKIN BROOKS! What kind of match making skills would that "ham and egger" possess?
I thought the third man was gonna be Bray Wyatt
Dixie Carter was TNA’s Eric Embry.
I miss. Dixie
Holy cow, Kevin sounds insufferable to work with.
double j is that guy
I was never sad to see Mark Lawrence gone. He clearly wasn't even close to being in the same league with Jim Ross, Gordon Solie, Tony Schiavone, or Lance Russell. CWA had better play-by-play announcing in TV studio punching bag/squash matches, than WCCW announcers calling a main event match inside an auditorium!
Jarret @ 1:03:00 - Bless their heart is southern for "**** you Meltzer", and in Southern dialect, can be one of the most insulting terms you could throw at someone. You never want to get a "Bless your Heart" from a Southerner, trust me. You done did a no-no.
It doesn't take talent for someone to really hit a person for real. I have to agree with Flair on this one, he's a glorified stunt man. And that can be entertaining, but not even close to a Mt Rushmore of wrestling.
The name change was an awful decision.
Fair to both sides Conrad? Ha!
I DONT see how the dirt sheet that said WWF lost money with only 3,000 Fans attending with the arena rent being $30,000 a night. If tickets was only $20&U no ringside is way more than $20. THATS $60,000 AT only charging a ticket. Then u got WWF programs for sell& then the MERCH booth. I no they still had to pay talent but I think they wud still have plenty left out of $60,000
The tickets didn’t average $20 a piece. If you google image house show posters from events at the time none of them advertised ticket prices being that high: the most common range of ticket prices from 5 or so house show posters surrounding the date this show happened at the highest end was $10 - $16 but the top advertised ticket price were generally around $15. So a more realistic average would be multiplying out like $12 not $20. So the gross gate would be an amount hovering around $36K like the $12 price. For example, the average amount paid per ticket for survivor series in 1990 if you compare the reported live gate compared to the paid attendance was $16.62 so reasonable that if a PPV had an average cost per ticket sold of that number that a random house show would have a lower average so if you assumed it was $12 per ticket the gate would be $36K gross and then you’d need to deduct the taxes, pay the talent, and any other costs that factor in like travel and so on. So would be fairly easy to see how a venue with that level of rent and an attendance of 3,000 for one of that days three hours shows since this was the time period where they ran three cities every night.
So safe to assume ticket prices wouldn’t be as high as $20 as an average just by looking at the average for more prominent shows that people are going to be willing to pay more to attend and browse house show posters around the same time. Then consider that they were getting anywhere close to filling arenas in the bulk of the house shows so prices would scale to a lower average to try and pump up the number being sold. But even if they did find a way to sneak out a profit for the event in a venue with a hometown draw like the Von Erichs who had been historically major draws in the Dallas area they’d be extremely disappointed profit or no profit to have brought in an audience of 3,000 in a venue that was around 17-18K of capacity for hockey and basketball games. So realistically the profit talk doesn’t matter all that much anyways because with a crowd that size the profit number isn’t going to be anything of note and then factor into things the number they were hoping for considering that a low scale estimate is that there was a potential capacity of 12,000 more seats to sell if the same average of $12 was used which would’ve been +/- $140K of revenue potential in ticket sales and the difference between the profit levels through a top line comparison.