The way that dual ISO works is generally in what's called the charge to voltage converter in the sensor. That's where the charge from the photocell is accumulated (or integrated) into a capacitor to produce a voltage, and it's that which is read by the ADC (analogue to digital converter) via an analogue amplifier. Generally a dual-ISO sensor will have two capacitors, and when running with the "low base ISO", both capacitors are in circuit. When running in the "high base ISO" mode, only one capacitor is used with, say, only about one-sixteenth of the capacitance of both combined. The result is that, for a given charge, which is directly proportional to the number of photons detected in the photo-diode, the "high base ISO" mode will generate a voltage sixteen times higher (four stops) than in "low base ISO" mode. That means, in the "low base ISO" mode, for a given ISO, there would have to be a sixteen-times higher analogue amplification to be applied compared to the "high ISO mode". Unfortunately analogue amplification comes with a cost, which is added noise. Using a smaller capacitor provides that amplification without the added noise. So, if the "low base ISO" adds noise, why do cameras not always run in the "high base ISO" mode all the time? The answer to that is dynamic range; the "high ISO mode" has much less headroom before it clips by exceeding the range of the ADC and other elements of the circuity. In short, it would clip highlights. As to when the two modes are switched in, then that's going to be down to the fine details and optimisation of firmware in the camera. The exact details of how the "dual base ISO" feature is physically implemented is in the sensor. What base ISO actually means in terms of SLOG adds another complication to the game as, at heart, it's a non-linear encoding of the luminance levels on the channels.
@Paul Lifewood It would not surprise me if the ADCs were also tweaked as well. As this is all fabricated in the sensor there are probably downsides in adding too much complexity. There's an explanation of the basic principles here, which might be of interest. www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2016-newsview/jan-mar-2016-newsviews-2/dual-gain-becoming-the-norm.html I can't remember who patented the idea first.
@Paul Lifewood Now I recall, it was probably Aptina that first patented the method which was called dual-gain or some such. No doubt each sensor manufacturer has it's own particular take and its own patents but probably have to cross-licence the original concept. www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf
@Gerald Undone, Gerald, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thanx.
A personal thank you Phillip. I'm expecting my A7S3 next month, and your settings will be a great way to start with the new camera. Best wishes. Andrew.
Thank you very much for this video. After many years filming with an A7R II I´m finally purchasing an A7S III and I needed that clear information. Thank you again and greetings from Spain.
Nice! When I had test for my review I noticed that “jump” but I had thought that was an error on pre production model, nice to know this “dual iso” function.
Finally got mine in and so glad you made this video. I came back to remember the ISO range where the switchover happens and then remembered you had the settings set up for us to start with. Much appreciated! That's going to make getting started much less work.
Thanks for the settings, very helpful and contains exactly everything that I ever need. Saved me a lot of time. Also, as Gerald Undone pointed out, you can either count the stops, or, if it's easier to you, just multiply the base ISO by 20 to find out the second ISO where it cleans up.
Great video and super useful for us! This will help in selecting an appropriate PP when we film Aurora. Pretty excited to play with RAW for this purpose as well.
Very comprehensive demonstration, question however Philip, why did Sony make the cut point for the ISO switch so abrupt or is this technical limitation? Could they not have spread the overlap a little more? Also, if you're shooting video with ISO set to automatic (not desirable of course) and transitioning between dark and bright areas, is the switch in ISO across these cut-off points noticible in video?
@@philipbloom gotcha, so for regular use you'd barely notice the noise reduction if transitioning from a lighter area to a dark place while filming. Thanks for the reply!
Hi this is very informative. Could you please share the resource where we can see the base ISO for each picture profile for different cameras such as A7III , A7R IV and A6600
Thank you for your A7siii custom camera set up Bloomie! I like simple videos like this. Please do one on the use of the right Chapman? Venice lut? with Slog3 Gamut 3 Cine etc
Thank you, Phillip. Can't wait to get my A7Siii. Please continue these informative and rather entertaining videos, even though on the shorter timeframe side per your regular standards.
Out of curiosity i just tested this on my A6500 (with the lens cap on and manual WB, shutter & aperture) and there is a definite change at ISO 6400 using S-Log 2 the noise appears finer and most of the color noise disappears. And in no profile, movie (PP1) and cine profiles the image cleans up at ISO 500 which does match reported dual ISO gain point of ISO 400 but i found ISO 800 to be cleaner and had less color noise.
Hey Philip! I just bought two A7SIII for my youtube channel, and I'm using them with Atomos Ninja V, but I have a BIG problem... I'm getting a lot of noise, like a lot... I'm using Raw output mode, Atomos says it's 4,2k 60p, codec is Apple Pro Res, SLog3 and 640 ISO. Internal recording is a bit noisy but not as much as Atomos Ninja V, Atomos is crazy grainy... Do you have any idea of what is going on? Thank you!! PD: I love your videos, I watched the full "Movies" about FX9 and A7SIII.
i've watched some other youtubers explain about this issue. its because when you're recording internally the camera did the noise reduction for you. As for the raw, you need to do that in post and you'll get cleaner image than the internal one. hope you find this useful.
I found the whole video (actually there is part 1 as well) very helpful. Jump here th-cam.com/video/lq8UqQlO7I8/w-d-xo.html, if you just want to know what's going on with the noise.
Very interesting - it really acts like Dual-ISO and the reduced amount of grain is very comparable to the BMPCC4K which "officially" has Dual-ISO. But of course it's strange that the switch to less noise is on different ISO-levels when switch picture profiles. So it is definitely no Dual ISO system. Question: Did you notice any other differences while filming and switch to that "second" base-ISO? Changes in noise-reduction resulting in less detailed recordings?
Great test. Weird how production model was lower. For me, i like grading HLG so i’ll probably start with that, but use SLOG3 for low light like wedding dance shots
Thanks a lot for this test! I only have one question. Every next stop is 2 times the previous ISO and we seem to look for the 5th stop, then why the image clears at 12800 (which is 1,25 times the previous ISO) and not at 20480? Thank you!
Good demonstration. This 'dual ISO' has always be present on the A7S Mk2 too BTW. The switch point for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range. I've always avoided shooting anywhere between 5000-10000 to avoid the worst of the noise. At least the switch point seems to be consistent now. Looking forward to receiving our FX9s little brother.
Thank you. Makes sense. Thinking of trying out a Sony in 2021 for low light nature.. I’m retiring my 8 bit JVC LS300 and acquiring a friends BMPCC4K and shooting in 12 bit BRAW is a dream. I wish I switched years ago, though I can easily get good footage with 8 bit.. just so much easier and better results in DR with 12 bit BRAW. The Sony externals to Prores RAW to Ninja v? Thank you for posting. I just watched 1st episode of Earth at Night in Color that blew my mind. Makes me wonder how close I can get to something like that with a7sIII on full moon. :)
I wish Sony would give that firmware update allowing for the disabling of video NR. DaVinci Resolve does NR much better than a camera’s muddy processing…
What's the most surprising to me with this camera is how good the standard profile is. It seems to be the cleanest for virtually no loss in DR. A low base ISO is also a huge bonus
Brian Decasa seriously??? Standard has “no loss in DR”? Where is this coming from? Your tests? There’s about 4 stops different between standard and Slog3
@@philipbloom agree and have watched - I am week 2 of using an FX3 and as an oldy I miss the evf as well. I have looked at the builds (cage monitor etc )to make the fx3 look like a cinema camera but think you may as well get the fx6 after that spend ! I’ll stick to the A7s3. Anyways admire your work and funny as I spend most of my time in Richmond and brighton also ! Keep it up 👍
Nice one Phil. I really like the composition and lighting in your piece to cam in this vid. The FX7 is so good here. I'd love to see you compare the A7 to the R5. I went for the R5 for photography reasons. Might get the A7 when I can afford it.
Interestingly the standard profile in video where it gets clean (ISO1600) is the same as for RAW photos, so the sensitivity for photos is actually worse than their other cameras (e.g. A7R5, A7IV, etc), this low light advantage is only present in video modes. I wonder what accounts for this...
Awesome! Thanks so much! Was going to save up cash to purchase but I might buy with 0% just in case Sony “updates” this great “feature” with a firmware update. Great video as always.
Thanks for the info Philip! So the trick is not using that 4th stop. Were you able to tell if the stop where it switched over was as clean as the 3rd or even the 2nd? I feel like we just need to cross out certain iso's in each picture profile. Quirky! I remember with the original a7s I purposely shot overexposed because it brought down the blacks and gave me a cleaner image in the end. Very strange.
Raphael & Kristin Rogers I am saying it’s not as visible as you are seeing so don’t be paranoid about it. This demo does shoes you very clearly the noise levels though.
Yes it does, the switch point on the MK2 for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range.
Great work! Though I want to see a dynamic range chart like Blackmagic has made... showing where middle grey would be for each ISO, and the dynamic range above and below middle grey for each ISO.
Very useful sir and glad I sat down for this. Interesting 🧐 find of a feature. I wonder why Sony didn’t market this? Probably to market their higher end cameras 📸 with this feature instead. 🤔
It’s not denoising, it’s a second set of A/D converters, with the whole A/D pipeline has variable “ISO”, which is itself an inaccurate term held over from film cameras.
Not, it's not de-noising (or noise reduction). It switches in a fundamentally different bit of circuitry in the sensor in the charge-to-voltage converted which means less analogue amplification is applied prior to the ADC. That means less noise is added to the signal for low luminance levels. There are probably a few other little tricks in the ADCs too, but in essence it is, genuinely, less noisy. It can't be done for high luminance levels as it will clip highlights.
"dual iso" sounds very useful especially when combined with the picture profiles. to me at least, it means you could use a different PP at a higher iso and get better results. I think fujifilm has something similar, where it looks like iso 1000 is cleaner than 800. 2500 is cleaner than 1600. Maybe you want to check that out?
Great demonstration. I'm curious whether there's any noticeable difference to the image at the bright end-i.e. the highlight reach and quality of roll-off. Presumably they're switching to a higher gain amplifier as early as they can, and this would be limited by the point at which the high gain amplifier causes visible clipping of the brightest pixels. But how close to the sun are they getting?
Hi Philip, I guess this applies also to the new PP11 Cinetone setting on A7S-III / FX3 ? I'm still torn which one to buy. I'm getting more and more into video, but also still do a lot of photography, where a viewfinder could be beneficial.
I hope this isn't a dumb question or answered somewhere else, but in light of the fact that the FX3 has CineEI settings of 800 and 12,800, does this mean that 800 is now the low "base" iso for the a7siii given they have the same sensor? Or is it a software difference between the two cameras? Also, a second question, does the 640/12800 apply to slog3cine? Many thanks, Philip for doing all this useful testing.
Phillip I just started really getting into photography and videography last year and been watching you for a while and just wanted thank you for your A7sIII setup file and instructions. I have a question I have been shooting an a6600 and really like the setup size with the lenses I have but being that I want to get more into making videos and editing I couldn't resist the 7sIII. Do you think it makes sense to keep both cameras? I don't do much printing of my pictures in large format sizes and I feel like having two different systems would be a pain in the ass. Thanks on advance!
@@philipbloom Thanks for the quick reply. Really appreciate it! I was leaning towards selling the a6600 and the few apsc lenses I have and just putting it toward a couple of lens for the a7s III. Not going to look back!
Very useful - thanks for the detailed examples! Given the results, do you recommend using one of the S-Logs over the other profiles? Also, I'm enjoying your shorter videos - looking forward to more!
Thank you. I prefer slog 3 Sgamut 3 cine over others mainly as the colours are very Sony Venice and world with those luts. Noise wise it’s all much of a muchness! More contrasty profiles hide the noise more but once you apply contrast to log it does the same
@@philipbloom Awesome, that's exactly what I was looking for! I'm a fan of the Venice look. On an unrelated, but related note - what profile do you prefer on the ZV-1? Would like both to match well. Thanks again!
Hi Philip.. Larry Low here from Singapore.. apparently this "dual ISO" phenomenon is existent in other Sony cameras as well.. happens on my a6400, a6600 & a7iii as well; at varying ISOs depending on profile.. i can't speak for the other models, but i think it might exist in all Sony hybrids.. 🤔🤔
Thank you for the settings. I have two A7S 111 on order but I'm intrigued by the Cannon M70 that should be announced this week. As an entry-level cine camera, it looks intriguing. With a price point of around $6K it is definitely a cost. That said I'm very interested.
Great Job always ! I've an issue with your settings. I put them in my camera but lost SLOG-3. Now after importing footage they are in "color", no more grey. So you add something that backed the color information ? Now FCPX give me a HD (1.1.1) instead of nothing and then I can put a LUT. Any cue ? thanks !
The way that dual ISO works is generally in what's called the charge to voltage converter in the sensor. That's where the charge from the photocell is accumulated (or integrated) into a capacitor to produce a voltage, and it's that which is read by the ADC (analogue to digital converter) via an analogue amplifier. Generally a dual-ISO sensor will have two capacitors, and when running with the "low base ISO", both capacitors are in circuit. When running in the "high base ISO" mode, only one capacitor is used with, say, only about one-sixteenth of the capacitance of both combined.
The result is that, for a given charge, which is directly proportional to the number of photons detected in the photo-diode, the "high base ISO" mode will generate a voltage sixteen times higher (four stops) than in "low base ISO" mode. That means, in the "low base ISO" mode, for a given ISO, there would have to be a sixteen-times higher analogue amplification to be applied compared to the "high ISO mode". Unfortunately analogue amplification comes with a cost, which is added noise. Using a smaller capacitor provides that amplification without the added noise.
So, if the "low base ISO" adds noise, why do cameras not always run in the "high base ISO" mode all the time? The answer to that is dynamic range; the "high ISO mode" has much less headroom before it clips by exceeding the range of the ADC and other elements of the circuity. In short, it would clip highlights.
As to when the two modes are switched in, then that's going to be down to the fine details and optimisation of firmware in the camera. The exact details of how the "dual base ISO" feature is physically implemented is in the sensor.
What base ISO actually means in terms of SLOG adds another complication to the game as, at heart, it's a non-linear encoding of the luminance levels on the channels.
What Say Ye Sir Gerald Undone?
@Paul Lifewood It would not surprise me if the ADCs were also tweaked as well. As this is all fabricated in the sensor there are probably downsides in adding too much complexity.
There's an explanation of the basic principles here, which might be of interest.
www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2016-newsview/jan-mar-2016-newsviews-2/dual-gain-becoming-the-norm.html
I can't remember who patented the idea first.
@Paul Lifewood Now I recall, it was probably Aptina that first patented the method which was called dual-gain or some such. No doubt each sensor manufacturer has it's own particular take and its own patents but probably have to cross-licence the original concept.
www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf
Kez I’m assuming he’s been married for at least 15 years.
Your explanation is perfect 👌 and I appreciate it. Glad someone understands the science. (:
Honestly the best duo in camera breakdown and in depth reviews is Gerald and Phil. I mean, if you want to KNOW your camera... its these guys. Period.
Yes
Well demonstrated, Philip! Also, love your shirt! 🤓👌💜
@Gerald Undone, Gerald, a question, What's the best ISO value for extracting maximum allocation of dynamic range above the middle grey, think of shooting with A7S3 in a super sunny daylight, thanx.
@@peek118 I would say about 1250 without introducing much noise.
@@8lec_R Thanks,
well done Phillipe , hey Gerald ;)
do one of, probably both , of you know why Sony have different dual iso on different styles ?
Karma_Codeine I already answered didn’t I? Why would you just shoot at the lowest base iso as in 640?
I learned about ‘stops’ and how they are calculated ... awesome. Thank you for that.
Amazing stuff! Weird they don't advertise this. Thanks for the vid Phil!
because it's not dual iso.
Juventin actually it essentially is.
This is the best explanation of the dual ISO ever made.
A personal thank you Phillip. I'm expecting my A7S3 next month, and your settings will be a great way to start with the new camera. Best wishes. Andrew.
So glad that you can save settings to SD. It’s always been a bit of a nightmare copying them over manually.
Thank you very much for this video. After many years filming with an A7R II I´m finally purchasing an A7S III and I needed that clear information. Thank you again and greetings from Spain.
Nice! When I had test for my review I noticed that “jump” but I had thought that was an error on pre production model, nice to know this “dual iso” function.
This is GREAT NEWS. I can't wait for my camera to arrive.
Do you know the expected ship date?
How long have you been a Sony shooter?
@@WarriorsPhoto This will be my first. Were you being snarky a la Sony sucks at releasing?
@@baller2377 Very interesting point there. I am wondering what about my question lead to seeming "snarky"? Thank you for asking BTW.
Nicely illustrated, thanks for showing this.
you will remain the legendary Philip for all of us , Big Thanks
Philip to Sony: Looks like dual ISO to me!
Sony: It's not dual ISO, it's cleaner noise!
Dear Phillip, Thanks for the settings file. A very generous gesture.
Finally got mine in and so glad you made this video. I came back to remember the ISO range where the switchover happens and then remembered you had the settings set up for us to start with. Much appreciated! That's going to make getting started much less work.
So calm, positive karma, so professional! Congrats for all your videos!
G'day from Australia Philip. I downloaded the settings and they're great. Thanks for all of the hard work you put into creating these videos.
Thanks for the info 🙌🏻. Looking forward to receiving mine next week. Haven’t been this pumped for a new camera since 2016
Thanks for the settings, very helpful and contains exactly everything that I ever need. Saved me a lot of time.
Also, as Gerald Undone pointed out, you can either count the stops, or, if it's easier to you, just multiply the base ISO by 20 to find out the second ISO where it cleans up.
Great video and super useful for us! This will help in selecting an appropriate PP when we film Aurora. Pretty excited to play with RAW for this purpose as well.
What music track is that? It goes great with the video
The L.A. Explorer there’s quite a few tracks isn’t there?
This is great ... And the best part of it the sharing of the personal menu setting, huge thanks for that
Dual ISO has been one of the best features of some of the recent Panasonic cameras. Good to see other cameras utilizing it now.
mpgxsvcd sure but its not. Don’t forget, who makes the S1H sensor?
Philip Bloom why is it not a good feature?
mpgxsvcd that’s not what I said. I said it’s not “dual iso”. Not officially! :)
mpgxsvcd this has actually been in Sony mirrorless cameras going all the way back to the A7S but it’s just not been talked about :)
Thank you Philip. I will refer back to this video in a couple year's time when I buy my Siii :)
I can’t wait to see your Fx6 review. I think that will be my next camera.
Thanks for sharing your Menu settings. Wish you all the best, enjoying every video from you. Keep on that awesome work of yours.
Awesome, thank you for the info! You are an amazing filmmaker.
It’s amazing how much cleaner it gets. Thanks for this video!
Thank you for sharing your camera settings! I am looking forward to getting mine soon!
Very comprehensive demonstration, question however Philip, why did Sony make the cut point for the ISO switch so abrupt or is this technical limitation? Could they not have spread the overlap a little more? Also, if you're shooting video with ISO set to automatic (not desirable of course) and transitioning between dark and bright areas, is the switch in ISO across these cut-off points noticible in video?
How do you expect it to change?
As I said in this video this is highly exaggerated do you can see the difference.
@@philipbloom gotcha, so for regular use you'd barely notice the noise reduction if transitioning from a lighter area to a dark place while filming. Thanks for the reply!
Hi this is very informative. Could you please share the resource where we can see the base ISO for each picture profile for different cameras such as A7III , A7R IV and A6600
Thank you for your A7siii custom camera set up Bloomie! I like simple videos like this. Please do one on the use of the right Chapman? Venice lut? with Slog3 Gamut 3 Cine etc
So glad that you investigated! I wonder how come it was lowered to 12,800 tho that's pretty interesting.
Thank you, Phillip. Can't wait to get my A7Siii. Please continue these informative and rather entertaining videos, even though on the shorter timeframe side per your regular standards.
Thank you Phillip for the settings!
Out of curiosity i just tested this on my A6500 (with the lens cap on and manual WB, shutter & aperture) and there is a definite change at ISO 6400 using S-Log 2 the noise appears finer and most of the color noise disappears. And in no profile, movie (PP1) and cine profiles the image cleans up at ISO 500 which does match reported dual ISO gain point of ISO 400 but i found ISO 800 to be cleaner and had less color noise.
This exactly what I was looking for plus the my menu settings 🥺 thanks my man! Subscribed!
Hey Philip! I just bought two A7SIII for my youtube channel, and I'm using them with Atomos Ninja V, but I have a BIG problem... I'm getting a lot of noise, like a lot... I'm using Raw output mode, Atomos says it's 4,2k 60p, codec is Apple Pro Res, SLog3 and 640 ISO. Internal recording is a bit noisy but not as much as Atomos Ninja V, Atomos is crazy grainy... Do you have any idea of what is going on? Thank you!!
PD: I love your videos, I watched the full "Movies" about FX9 and A7SIII.
i've watched some other youtubers explain about this issue. its because when you're recording internally the camera did the noise reduction for you. As for the raw, you need to do that in post and you'll get cleaner image than the internal one. hope you find this useful.
I found the whole video (actually there is part 1 as well) very helpful. Jump here th-cam.com/video/lq8UqQlO7I8/w-d-xo.html, if you just want to know what's going on with the noise.
Thanks for all the information and thank you for sharing your settings. That was very nice of you.
Great and thanks for the settings as well. I can’t wait to see you covering the Gyroscopic Stabilization feature and how you like it 👍
Thanks Philip!best explanation!
steady shot cropping a bit someone was saying?
Great test. I like the standard picture profile best, the blacks seem richer to me and the roll off looks the most cinematic.
Absolutely do not use this as a way of analysing what look best!! This is so artificial in its presentation to make it possible to see!!!
@@philipbloom Apologies! I was trying to be funny whilst eating my Wheatabix this morning.
Ben you should get your coat! 😂
Nice demo Phill,Thank you.I think Sony did a good job on this camera for its price point.
Thanks Phillip super keen to get my unit!
Looking forward to seeing some more on the proress raw!
Not fair! 😭😭😭 I still gotta wait 8 more days and every job I book before the 24th I hate that I have to use my a7s ii lol
Relatable! Me when ordering prime lenses. Order now or it can hurt you later
I can't wait to see your review the fx6 and the c70...
Ok maybe I'm dreaming but still worth a shot to mention.
Very interesting - it really acts like Dual-ISO and the reduced amount of grain is very comparable to the BMPCC4K which "officially" has Dual-ISO. But of course it's strange that the switch to less noise is on different ISO-levels when switch picture profiles. So it is definitely no Dual ISO system. Question: Did you notice any other differences while filming and switch to that "second" base-ISO? Changes in noise-reduction resulting in less detailed recordings?
Sorry that’s incorrect. Dual iso can be at different points depending on the profiles. The FX9 is dual iso and that point depends on the profiles.
@@philipbloom Sorry - I only had Dual-ISO cameras without profiles (like blackmagic) and Sonys without Dual-ISO ;)
EMBE yeah BMD don’t really have profiles. It’s log or Rec 709
Excellent information! I can't wait for mine to arrive!
Now I’ll have to figure out how to upload settings into the cameras via SD card. Thanks Phillip for all the tips!
It’s in the pdf
@@philipbloom you're the man
Bravo 👏 Philip!!! Very useful little video
Great test. Weird how production model was lower.
For me, i like grading HLG so i’ll probably start with that, but use SLOG3 for low light like wedding dance shots
Marty Wood not weird at all. It’s all software. Makes sense to have the second base lower as its more usable that way
@@philipbloom I received mine last week as well, mine changes at 16000 in default mode.
SkyCoreLLC whats “default mode”?
@@philipbloom Right out of box, before I changed anything. Have not played with slog yet.
SkyCoreLLC 16,000?? For the second “base iso” in standard picture profile? That’s wrong. I thought I showed standard in this video.
Thanks a lot for this test! I only have one question.
Every next stop is 2 times the previous ISO and we seem to look for the 5th stop, then why the image clears at 12800 (which is 1,25 times the previous ISO) and not at 20480?
Thank you!
Thank you, very helpful. Appreciate you making your settings available.
This video was very useful, thanks Philip. Nice example
Good demonstration. This 'dual ISO' has always be present on the A7S Mk2 too BTW. The switch point for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range. I've always avoided shooting anywhere between 5000-10000 to avoid the worst of the noise. At least the switch point seems to be consistent now. Looking forward to receiving our FX9s little brother.
Thank you. Makes sense. Thinking of trying out a Sony in 2021 for low light nature.. I’m retiring my 8 bit JVC LS300 and acquiring a friends BMPCC4K and shooting in 12 bit BRAW is a dream. I wish I switched years ago, though I can easily get good footage with 8 bit.. just so much easier and better results in DR with 12 bit BRAW. The Sony externals to Prores RAW to Ninja v? Thank you for posting. I just watched 1st episode of Earth at Night in Color that blew my mind. Makes me wonder how close I can get to something like that with a7sIII on full moon. :)
Very useful video!!! Thanks!! Hope I can get my a7sIII soon too!!👌
I wish Sony would give that firmware update allowing for the disabling of video NR. DaVinci Resolve does NR much better than a camera’s muddy processing…
What's the most surprising to me with this camera is how good the standard profile is. It seems to be the cleanest for virtually no loss in DR. A low base ISO is also a huge bonus
Brian Decasa seriously??? Standard has “no loss in DR”? Where is this coming from? Your tests? There’s about 4 stops different between standard and Slog3
The reason it “looks cleaner to me” is the contrast is hiding the noise
Great work as always - Would you still recommend the A7s3 now in 2022 for run n gun over the fx 3 ?
thanks...my reasons for preferring the a7s III over the FX3 are the same as in my review of the FX3. No firmware can change that...
@@philipbloom agree and have watched - I am week 2 of using an FX3 and as an oldy I miss the evf as well.
I have looked at the builds (cage monitor etc )to make the fx3 look like a cinema camera but think you may as well get the fx6 after that spend ! I’ll stick to the A7s3.
Anyways admire your work and funny as I spend most of my time in Richmond and brighton also !
Keep it up 👍
Nice one Phil. I really like the composition and lighting in your piece to cam in this vid. The FX7 is so good here. I'd love to see you compare the A7 to the R5. I went for the R5 for photography reasons. Might get the A7 when I can afford it.
Interestingly the standard profile in video where it gets clean (ISO1600) is the same as for RAW photos, so the sensitivity for photos is actually worse than their other cameras (e.g. A7R5, A7IV, etc), this low light advantage is only present in video modes. I wonder what accounts for this...
Why is it worse? What is the high ISO point for those other cameras?
Awesome! Thanks so much! Was going to save up cash to purchase but I might buy with 0% just in case Sony “updates” this great “feature” with a firmware update. Great video as always.
Thanks for the info Philip! So the trick is not using that 4th stop. Were you able to tell if the stop where it switched over was as clean as the 3rd or even the 2nd? I feel like we just need to cross out certain iso's in each picture profile. Quirky! I remember with the original a7s I purposely shot overexposed because it brought down the blacks and gave me a cleaner image in the end. Very strange.
Sort of. Its totally not visible at all in the non slog modes.
@@philipbloom The noise isn't visible? Not following. My questions was at what point do you stop using the lower isos and switch to the 5th stop.
Raphael & Kristin Rogers I am saying it’s not as visible as you are seeing so don’t be paranoid about it. This demo does shoes you very clearly the noise levels though.
@@philipbloom Oh right, makes sense! Thank you sir.
BH claims it isn't shipping here in the US until 24 September 😥
Thank you Philip. Very useful.
Thanks for the settings file! I’ll put it to good use... one day.
People like this are why I have hope in the world
started understanding ISO a bit, thanks Philip!
@ Phillips Bloom
Brilliant Phillips and thank you.
Does the A7S 2 have a similar dual ISO like feature that we could have missed?
Yes it does, the switch point on the MK2 for SLOG2/3 is also @ 12800 as you work your way up through the ISO range, but weirdly at 10000 as you work your way back down through the ISO range.
Which autofocus lenses do you recommend for the a7s3/fx9?
am i getting this recomended because the s3 is waiting on my bh shopping cart for 3 days?
Great work! Though I want to see a dynamic range chart like Blackmagic has made... showing where middle grey would be for each ISO, and the dynamic range above and below middle grey for each ISO.
Not my thing. Watch Gerald Undone’s review
Philip Bloom Thanks!
Looking for exposure and ISO help when Not shooting in LOG.
Thanks for this. How does the dynamic range change? Which profile has the most dynamic range under what ISO?
Very useful sir and glad I sat down for this. Interesting 🧐 find of a feature. I wonder why Sony didn’t market this? Probably to market their higher end cameras 📸 with this feature instead. 🤔
No conspiracies here!
Philip Bloom Hey Phillip, I believe you. I am wondering about Sony’s marketing.
Thanks so much for sharing your settings. Look forward to trying them out when my unit arrives.
So it is a de-noising threshold. Can we quantify how much detail is lost? And how does it compare to the A7III de-noising.
It’s not denoising, it’s a second set of A/D converters, with the whole A/D pipeline has variable “ISO”, which is itself an inaccurate term held over from film cameras.
Not, it's not de-noising (or noise reduction). It switches in a fundamentally different bit of circuitry in the sensor in the charge-to-voltage converted which means less analogue amplification is applied prior to the ADC. That means less noise is added to the signal for low luminance levels.
There are probably a few other little tricks in the ADCs too, but in essence it is, genuinely, less noisy. It can't be done for high luminance levels as it will clip highlights.
Thank you for the settings files Philip. It's greatly appreciated!
did they load? i couldn't get them to load. i went under 'reset/save settings' then LOAD > File name: "CAMSET01" and didn't work. any idea why? thanks
"dual iso" sounds very useful especially when combined with the picture profiles. to me at least, it means you could use a different PP at a higher iso and get better results.
I think fujifilm has something similar, where it looks like iso 1000 is cleaner than 800. 2500 is cleaner than 1600. Maybe you want to check that out?
No really! Why don’t you?
Great demonstration. I'm curious whether there's any noticeable difference to the image at the bright end-i.e. the highlight reach and quality of roll-off. Presumably they're switching to a higher gain amplifier as early as they can, and this would be limited by the point at which the high gain amplifier causes visible clipping of the brightest pixels. But how close to the sun are they getting?
Hi Philip,
I guess this applies also to the new PP11 Cinetone setting on A7S-III / FX3 ?
I'm still torn which one to buy. I'm getting more and more into video, but also still do a lot of photography, where a viewfinder could be beneficial.
A viewfinder is of enormous benefit for video too!
@@philipbloom so you would pick the A7S-III over the FX3?
@@joergkampers_photography you should watch my review.
Native ISO for the a7r iii is 800.
If the ISO is lowered to compensate for a bright scene, will the video get noisey when shooting in s Log 2?
I hope this isn't a dumb question or answered somewhere else, but in light of the fact that the FX3 has CineEI settings of 800 and 12,800, does this mean that 800 is now the low "base" iso for the a7siii given they have the same sensor? Or is it a software difference between the two cameras?
Also, a second question, does the 640/12800 apply to slog3cine? Many thanks, Philip for doing all this useful testing.
I think the low on then is slightly different. Can’t remember. The low/ high base of those figures is ONLY for slog3
Hello Sony. Are you paying attention to Philip's easy menu layout?
Anyone have an idea what the the "dual native" iso is for the a7S III with S-Cinetone?
awesome video! bookmarking this for when my fx3 comes in 😍
Cool Video. Thanks.
What happens in Full HD?
This is just brilliant. Thanks Philip
Incredible information! Thank you and Thank you for the Camera Settings File!
This is so so helpful, thank you for your time teaching all this.
Phillip I just started really getting into photography and videography last year and been watching you for a while and just wanted thank you for your A7sIII setup file and instructions. I have a question I have been shooting an a6600 and really like the setup size with the lenses I have but being that I want to get more into making videos and editing I couldn't resist the 7sIII. Do you think it makes sense to keep both cameras? I don't do much printing of my pictures in large format sizes and I feel like having two different systems would be a pain in the ass. Thanks on advance!
Oh you mean keeping the a6600 just for stills? Don’t bother. The A7S iii ones are very nice!!
@@philipbloom Thanks for the quick reply. Really appreciate it! I was leaning towards selling the a6600 and the few apsc lenses I have and just putting it toward a couple of lens for the a7s III. Not going to look back!
Same story with the Lumix S1 cameras. 640 /4000 "dual" gain.
Very useful - thanks for the detailed examples! Given the results, do you recommend using one of the S-Logs over the other profiles? Also, I'm enjoying your shorter videos - looking forward to more!
Thank you. I prefer slog 3 Sgamut 3 cine over others mainly as the colours are very Sony Venice and world with those luts. Noise wise it’s all much of a muchness! More contrasty profiles hide the noise more but once you apply contrast to log it does the same
@@philipbloom Awesome, that's exactly what I was looking for! I'm a fan of the Venice look. On an unrelated, but related note - what profile do you prefer on the ZV-1? Would like both to match well. Thanks again!
Hi Philip.. Larry Low here from Singapore.. apparently this "dual ISO" phenomenon is existent in other Sony cameras as well.. happens on my a6400, a6600 & a7iii as well; at varying ISOs depending on profile.. i can't speak for the other models, but i think it might exist in all Sony hybrids.. 🤔🤔
Yep it’s entirely possible. Much more obvious with a higher quality 10bit camera like this
Thanks Philip this is very helpful.
Thank you for the settings. I have two A7S 111 on order but I'm intrigued by the Cannon M70 that should be announced this week. As an entry-level cine camera, it looks intriguing. With a price point of around $6K it is definitely a cost. That said I'm very interested.
Why the noise pattern is more green on right side and purple on left side?
Great Job always ! I've an issue with your settings. I put them in my camera but lost SLOG-3. Now after importing footage they are in "color", no more grey. So you add something that backed the color information ? Now FCPX give me a HD (1.1.1) instead of nothing and then I can put a LUT. Any cue ? thanks !