I'm already seeing comments on the clouds throughout, so let me clear this up. Regardless of how the ambient environment changes, the camera settings stayed the same throughout. The camera settings are modeled after the sunny 16 rule as they are safe settings to prevent any highlights from clipping while shooting in direct sunlight. Even in HSS, our settings are equivalent to the Sunny 16 rule. This is why when clouds move in, the background gets darker in the sample images but the flash is still appropriately balanced. Now, if for some reason you have a different experience with the sun, you can still use this video to determine the distances you would be capable of. Let's say you go out on a Sunny day and determine you need ISO 100 1/250s F14 to get the background as dark as you want it. That is 1 stop darker than the settings we used. Which means the flash has to be moved in to make it 1 stop brighter to balance. That means your light would have to be 70% of the distance I shared in this video. 50% for 2 stops, and so on. I know most photographers aren't into the math behind it, but both light and photography are easily defined mathematically and if you learn it, you can find answers to all the questions you have.
@@photojones1 because, as we all know, since the introduction of digital photography the Sun has changed its position in the Sol system and Sunny16 is not valid anymore.
THIS IS THE EXACT DATA I WAS LOOKING FOR! I was trying to decide on whether I would go for the ad200pro or ad400pro and had watched various other youtube videos and I was having trouble keeping track of how each different photographer got certain results because it all depended on the various factors that are clearly detailed here. The distance, standard speed, hss, type of modifier ...etc. Thanks for doing such a diligent test and producing the handy chart ! Finding this video was a Godsend.
You are so well spoken and keep my interest. I cannot stand videos with overpowering music and people that hem and haw. You don't waste time, your points of interest are clearly outlined and you stay focused. Great job! Thank you! I am brand new to OCF, so I truly appreciate your informative videos. Thank you!
falented2 lots of jealous people out there. I wanted to make a video similar to this one and still plan to, but I'm happy Rob made this video sooner. It's so helpful and I support that. Rob works hard to create content.
My guess is some idiots accidentally click the wrong icon, or there was literally one detail that contradicted something they knew or expected. Some people thumb down when they see a product they dont like as well, even if they like the video. Sorta like being at a sportsgame and booing the other side, you're not really booing the host of the game.
Man, hands down one of the most informative videos I’ve seen on flash capabilities. Super helpful as I’m in the market for a new light and have been going back and forth between the ad400 and ad600. Thanks!!
OhMyGoodness... A-G-A-I-N you come out with EXACTLY the video I wanted/needed EXACTLY when I needed it, with the equipment I wanted you to test!! THANKS!!!!
THANK YOU!!!!! I have been saying this FOREVER!!! I wanted to do a video about this same thing because there is no strobe out there that can over power the sun! You beat me to it Rob, but thank you for posting this! They need to stop feeding people the wrong information.
Great presentation, I used an ad200 with small soft box yesterday and an ad600 with a large very deep soft box both double diffused with amazing results in the late afternoon never going anywhere full power
Thank you so much for using my flash, I bought a 47 inch/120cm when a 90cm would have done the job, and give me more light output, and be more portable for use case, this is neat to know I am even able to use it outside, and provided it's always cloudy here, it works in my favour for once
This has been super useful. I was thinking of just buying two speedlights, put both in my Westcott umbrella softbox (28 in, I believe), and call it good. Now this shows me that it could work, but I should also consider other options. Thank you for the vid, and trust me, I hate the phrase too hehe.
Tony & Chelsea Northrup, Fstoppers, & a few others need to listen at 1:54 . I use HSS at every shoot and know it isn't the best for "overpowering" the sun.
Do they say HSS is a better method too? People get so confused by the thought that you're using shutter speed to kill ambient that they think their flash is no longer being affected. It is better in that it gives you control of your aperture back, so I understand that thought, it's just not the most efficient.
Without being salty... All of the 3 after mentioned people aren't known for their verification/investigation/test efforts and they are known for all the mishaps they have in their videos/articles becuase they don't do any verification/investigation/test.
Great guys! keep up the good work ! .... but in my AD200 I always end up using the included bulb and not the flash mount, because the bulb is much more powerful...
Did I miss it, are all of the flash units at 1/1 or it's equivalent? BTW WOW that was a lot of great info and most importantly a tremendous amount of work. Thanks
I've always used the term "overpower the sun" to mean that the strobe can put more light on the subject than the sun does. And I've always explained that pretty much any flash can overpower the sun in the right conditions. That the discussion is really about whether or not the flash can overpower from a modifier at a useful distance.
The phrase "overpower the sun" is a bit misleading and I don't know why people use it. Pretty much everyone will agree that the sun is the brightest light source available, it's just small and harsh from the perspective of the surface of the earth. And really, you don't want to "overpower" things in some cases, and I think a better phrase is "balance the light" and I see many people starting to use this phrase instead of "overpower the sun". In a number of cases, you may want your subject brighter than the background (rather than just evenly light with the background) but with the right settings (ie. HSS) you can accomplish this with many flashes that are of decent quality and support HSS because you can use your SS to control the ambient light and thus tone down the background (ie. the sun) and incraese the power on your flash or get in closer. So in the right condition as you said, it' possible to overpower the sun in the right conditions and with the right configuration (flash/lighting setup and camera settings) regardless of if the flash is viewed as "being able to overpower the sun".
Bruh, 15 years of getting confused as heck, maybe even afraid of the sunny 16 rule (probably because it was just charts) and you explained it in a manner that makes a lot of sense. Now I know how one gets to all the other figures.
Cool video. I regularly encounter people online that tell me a speedlite cannot be used to fill sunlight. It’s awkward because I know I’ve done it before.
Robert you are so helpful as I am learning more about HSS and over powering the sun and Thanks fir all the Godoy review I have the 400 pro and was thinking of getting the 600 also
I think that when people use the term “overpowering the Sun” that it is in reference to the light that the Sun casts and not the Sun itself. Let’s face it, when talking about flash power you don’t take a photo of your flash.
Excelent video! Next time it would me nice if you could also inform the distances on the metric system, y'know, that one measurement system the entire world outside the USA uses.
@@robhallphoto I was about to write the same, didn’t get an idea to check the description. Very helpful video, thanks a lot! But adding metric system directly to the video should be good idea. Cheers!
Imagine putting in all that effort to make such an informative video like this, i don't know why some people dislike the videos. Lots of jealous people out there ...
The best and most reasonable definition of "Overpower the Sun" that I have heard is: "When the sun is overhead or behind your subject and you add light that casts a shadow behind your subject."
Good job! The only thing I really miss in this test, is how a (big) deep silver umbrella would fare. It should both help focus the light on the subject and the light is not reduced by a front diffusing panel. From what I have seen, they should help getting the most out of your light on location, if you want a bigger light-source with minimal loss of power/light. I normally refrain from softboxes and shoot-trough umbrellas on location in strong sun, because they do tend to take away a lot of light on the gear I own.
Great comparisons. I’m gonna have to revisit using fresnel heads. Another modifer I’d be interested to see is a beauty dish. I work a lot on the coast, trying to find the best option that isn’t going to get blown over, lol.
I think the biggest variable while trying to answer this question is the time of day you shoot. Overpowering the sun at noon is different than at golden hour. Also to me, most people are generally trying to do HSS with a shallow DOF using a medium to large soft box. All of that to get to a ambient that is one stop under is going to require a lot of watts. So if you don't have something like a ad600 or more powerful forget it.
That's exactly why seeing the difference between HSS and SS is so important. Many people might opt for ND filters if they know they can stay in standard sync with an AD200, instead of lugging around an AD600. Agree on the time of day, which is why we used Sunny 16 rule to represent the brightest situation. Anything less, gets you more versatility with your lights.
The only thing is it would be nice (and I guess I will have to try it) to see the speedlight zoomed to 200mm for the fresnel shot since zooming it tightens the pattern and so intensifies the light where it is landing. They might have been able to get the speedlight as far or farther than the AD200 bare at that point. And at those distances you would still light the subject fully.
Glad you enjoyed that, it's basically an involuntary habit at this point. It's gonna get me in trouble one day. It's most satisfying with a long lens like the 135 or 70-200 lmao.
I'm surprised! The V860II was very very close to the AD200... that's something I was not expecting... The 400 and 600 were so close too... now I'm sure that I can save some bucks getting the 400 instead of the 600.
I have one of each at the moment, and the v860II is the one I bring along more often (with a remote trigger). Now I admittedly don't use large modifiers outdoors, but for a portable portrait fill in a small softbox, the V860II is a great choice.
@@eddyla00 ad400 and ad600 is 1/2 stop. But V860 should be at least 1 stop weaker than ad200 tho, since V860 is around 70 watt/sec, while ad200 is around 200. You gotta test them both with the same zoom setting on the flash head.
interesting and instructive. Just on thing: To get a true relation between different options, distances should not be measured from the flash tube, but from the actual light source, which is the last diffusor/emitter in the light path. that way power differences between eg 400pro and 600 pro are more realistic. The 43" glow has a considerable depth. the light emitter is the front diffuser.
I am about to watch the video, and I'm sure it is informative. I just want to say I agree with you about the stupid phrase "overpower the sun" I don't know where it came from but I wish we could ban its use.
Nope, doesn't affect the test because the settings are still consistent with Sunny 16, which is why when the sky is cloudy, it is also underexposed. Facial shadows would potentially be filled in a bit more but, the flash exposure would still yield the same result since the sun wasn't hitting the subjects face in any instance.
@@robhallphoto So how did you meter it? If the sun is bright, although the sun doesn't hit the face directly, the face got more light from all around bounced light from the sun , so the strobe contribute less light if you meter to get f16 (strobe + ambient). If it's cloudy then to get f16 on the flash meters the strobe contribute more light.
Amazing work. Question, it makes sense that the 400/600 don’t do well with the umbrella since so much of their light is lost from the sides due to the bare bulb. It w puke be very interesting to see the effect of using a reflector on the 300/400/600 with an umbrella. I ask because umbrellas are portable, and a reflector like the AD 14 are pretty small as well.
I always have the issue of wind blowing down my Light-stand with Flash and Umbrella. 5:46 allows the wind to blow away the umbrella since it is more disposable so all I had to do is not tightly attach the umbrella to my Light-stand. Mind Blown!
Keydrin, I simply shorted the two pads on my Flashpoint FPLFX600PTB battery and it began to charge. I didn't have to "jump-start" the batter cells, this time, lol. I guess that Flashpoint XPLOR 600 Pro is a rebrand of the Godox equivalent.
The AC Rovelight? I've kind of abandoned coverage of the Orlit series, while they are capable units they just aren't anywhere near the same system as FP R2. But given that they can be had much cheaper these days because they don't sell as well, I think its a good buy.
Hi Robert! Thanks for this very informative video. I just recently bought my 2 godox ad200. But haven't used it for outdoor shoots. Maybe this weekend. :) just wanna ask if among the all the strobes you used in this video, were they fired at the same flash power? For example, all fired at 1/1 power from farthest to closest? Thanks
I've tried youngnuo speedlight with godox rp q90 octa. Without front diffuser at 4pm I got decent lighting with fullpower at f22 1/160 iso 100. Softbox edge was at 1.2 meters. Seems like inner silver cover with inner diffusion together gives max output. Amazing results. At f16 it was even better. Background was underexposed for clouds)
GREAT VIDEO and answered all my questions BUT I still don't know which one to upgrade to first. lol. I've gotten away with using the basic speedlight and for sure want to at least get the AD200. The 600 would be nice not sure how versatile it would be in a small space... DECISIONS DECISIONS...
This is informative. I do suggest that its important to recognize that the large soft box modifiers, when used with a fresnel head (speedlite) set to 24mm are essentially the same as the shoot through umbrella. Little, if any of the light is being deflected by the sides of the modifier. This characteristic is confirmed by the similarity in the distances between the umbrella and the soft boxes in the test results.z I continue to be amused by the insistence of photographers to say that TTL is X number of EV less efficient light. The reality is that it's the same light spread over time to permit the shutter slit to traverse the sensor. TTL is a well designed way to efficiently use a short duration light source to simulate continuous light. Two different tools for two different situations.
In regards to the second part (in which I think you mean HSS, not TTL), it is less efficient. Even if it's the same "total light" created by the strobe, the peak brightness of the light at any given moment is simply less than if it were a standard flash pulse. Duration of the light by using multiple pulses can't be realized by the sensor because of the action of the shutter curtains. In the only sense of it working, it's less efficient.
One other factor you left out is the camera. My little Fuji X-100S does well at balancing flash with ambient outdoors on bright days with nothing more than a Flashpoint branded V860ii because of the leaf shutter. Unlike HSS, which reduce output of strobes, leaf shutter cameras still get the speedlights full power at high shutter speeds. I can shoot at 1/4000th without any loss of strobe power. Of course the fixed focal length is limiting, but that's why I try to find open shade when using my X-T2's in those conditions.
I somehow doubt that you get the full power of a V860 II at 1/4000th shutterspeed - because flash duration of a full power pop on the V860 II is 1/300s (according to specs) and thus way longer than your shutter speed. A leaf shutter only captures the full flash power if the flash duration is shorter than the shutter speed. But as the most light is emitted right in the beginning of the flash burn, you'll probably still capture more light that way than if you would have used HSS
Yeah, but leaf shutters are a very small niche in our industry, and those who opt to purchase a leaf shutter camera tend to be aware of it's differences.
@@Mariosch26 You are correct, 1/4000th may have been an extreme example. I also should have been more clear on my statement. At that shutter speed(1/4000) the camera is obviously not capturing the full output of the flash at 1/1. My intent was to point to the fact that when using a leaf shutter, regardless of the set shutter speed, the flash is operating fully at whatever power level you set it to rather than cutting output as it would in HSS. This 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘺 gives you an output/flash exposure closer to that of larger strobes operating in HSS. This, for me at least, has the clear advantage of a smaller overall kit.
@@jimmyhill9591 I absolutely agree that leaf shutter have their advantages when it comes to flash. And my statement was certainly a bit of nitpicking - I couldn't just go past the implied statement that one could capture a full power flash pop of a V860 II at 1/4000s ;) But especially using a fast strobe and leaf shutter you can get a whole lot more light than using HSS. Unfortunately, as Rob Hall said, it's kind of a small niche right now - but at some point sensor techology will hopefully has evolved enough that we don't need mechanical shutters anymore and can enjoy the advantages of leaf shutter with every camera
If you use a leaf shutter lens/camera you gain at least 2 stops because you can sync at 1/1000 or higher, which allows you to use a larger aperture and/or to lose that ND filter. That typically requires (expensive) medium format equipment, the exception being the Fujifilm X100 series. I took some backlit group shots using my X100F in full 4 PM sunlight at a company function, and the small Godox TT350f could “overpower the sun” just fine.
One thing I would recommend is MAYBE re-test the AD200 but with the round flash head. Some people will shoot that bare (without any modifier and I'd be curious to see if it makes any difference compared to the Frenel head. My guess is "probably not" but I am curious regardless of how it compares to the AD400 and the flash at least. For me i ended up going with the AD400 over the AD60, mainly because I didn't think that the difference between the AD200 pro (which is what I had to begin with) and the AD600 pro merited the price (I got mine onsale too which helped, so it was I believe around $550 versus $650 regular price, whereas the AD600 Pro is close to $800-$900 depending if it's on sale or not) plus the AD400 is a bit smaller so easier to transport. But your tests to sort of support my expectations of the AD200 and how it compares to the others. Better than hotshoe flash in some cases, but not as good as a larger light like the 400. Then again, the difference isn't huge either, because we are talking about a stop (or so) of light. The hotshoe flash is a bit surprising though in the softbox applications though, almost out-doing the AD200 which I found a bit surprising (and am wondering if maybe the numbers in the graphic got flipped by accident). For me, the ability to shoot farther away while in HSS is what sold me on the AD400 (so I can use it outdoors) but the AD600 was going to be too much and I only shot out in bright light maybe 1/3 of the time, enough to justify buying the light, but not go crazy and buy a super powerful light (which also can have the problem of not being able to be turned down enough, and this is where I think the AD300/400/600 especially area ideal).
I have detailed Godox Power comparisons (over a dozen models) that include comparison between the round head and fresnel. You can search my channel for "Godox Power Comparison" if interested.
The best modifier for overpowering the sun is a parabolic silver umbrella. It is almost twice the power of the bare flash and it is a combination of direction and softness.
Thanks for doing this video. definitely gave me a better understanding of what in going to need to do when using my strobes out in the sun. would love to see it added to with more softboxes and strobes. Wondering how the Magbox would do compare to the others and also wonder how the AD200 using the dual head compares to the AD400.
I've got the latter portion of this comment well covered here: th-cam.com/video/t51IsHqwa-8/w-d-xo.html The AD-B2 is .3 stop more powerful than an AD400 Pro. As for more softboxes, maybe I'll do a single light power comparison on various modifiers in the future.
its funny how the non-photographer public views the use of lights and modifiers. i'll be out there in midday sun , and out there with a 48" softbox and ad600 and people on the street ask or comment about why im using a big giant light for lighting . since they think its counterintuitive to need or use strobe light in heavy sun scenarios. i'll show them the sooc picture (of course on the back of camera) , and they go "ahhh. yes, please continue".
I'm already seeing comments on the clouds throughout, so let me clear this up. Regardless of how the ambient environment changes, the camera settings stayed the same throughout. The camera settings are modeled after the sunny 16 rule as they are safe settings to prevent any highlights from clipping while shooting in direct sunlight. Even in HSS, our settings are equivalent to the Sunny 16 rule. This is why when clouds move in, the background gets darker in the sample images but the flash is still appropriately balanced.
Now, if for some reason you have a different experience with the sun, you can still use this video to determine the distances you would be capable of.
Let's say you go out on a Sunny day and determine you need ISO 100 1/250s F14 to get the background as dark as you want it. That is 1 stop darker than the settings we used. Which means the flash has to be moved in to make it 1 stop brighter to balance. That means your light would have to be 70% of the distance I shared in this video. 50% for 2 stops, and so on. I know most photographers aren't into the math behind it, but both light and photography are easily defined mathematically and if you learn it, you can find answers to all the questions you have.
Sunny 16 rule... analog rules, for digital fools!!!
@@photojones1 because, as we all know, since the introduction of digital photography the Sun has changed its position in the Sol system and Sunny16 is not valid anymore.
@Robhallphoto So, just to clarify. All the shots were at ƒ/16 except the HSS ones that were ƒ/1.8 ? Is this correct ?
THIS IS THE EXACT DATA I WAS LOOKING FOR! I was trying to decide on whether I would go for the ad200pro or ad400pro and had watched various other youtube videos and I was having trouble keeping track of how each different photographer got certain results because it all depended on the various factors that are clearly detailed here. The distance, standard speed, hss, type of modifier ...etc. Thanks for doing such a diligent test and producing the handy chart ! Finding this video was a Godsend.
So happy to hear this was a great resource for you Claudia!
You are so well spoken and keep my interest. I cannot stand videos with overpowering music and people that hem and haw. You don't waste time, your points of interest are clearly outlined and you stay focused. Great job! Thank you! I am brand new to OCF, so I truly appreciate your informative videos. Thank you!
Imagine putting in all that effort to make such an informative video like this...then someone dislikes it... Why?🤷🏾♂️
falented2 lots of jealous people out there. I wanted to make a video similar to this one and still plan to, but I'm happy Rob made this video sooner. It's so helpful and I support that. Rob works hard to create content.
My guess is some idiots accidentally click the wrong icon, or there was literally one detail that contradicted something they knew or expected. Some people thumb down when they see a product they dont like as well, even if they like the video. Sorta like being at a sportsgame and booing the other side, you're not really booing the host of the game.
@@Firebrand911you dont know nothing about light...and second your mom is an idiot.
@@goranb8822 by trashing people like you are you are really trashing yourself!!!!!!
Because they dont have a flash
Man, hands down one of the most informative videos I’ve seen on flash capabilities. Super helpful as I’m in the market for a new light and have been going back and forth between the ad400 and ad600. Thanks!!
Awesome to hear that, hope you got your answer!
Just wondering, which light did ya get?
Interesting results Rob, really appreciate the time you took to conduct such a thorough test 😊
Happy to do it, if I never have to type it again lol
OhMyGoodness... A-G-A-I-N you come out with EXACTLY the video I wanted/needed EXACTLY when I needed it, with the equipment I wanted you to test!! THANKS!!!!
Woaaaahhhhh That's a lot of numbers to digest, thanks for typing it up for us, can digest at my leisure...
THANK YOU!!!!! I have been saying this FOREVER!!! I wanted to do a video about this same thing because there is no strobe out there that can over power the sun! You beat me to it Rob, but thank you for posting this! They need to stop feeding people the wrong information.
Kerwan Celestine totally agree, man 🔥
FJH Photography yea bro. Still will do mines, because there are other aspects that affects that situation as well. 🙂
Can't wait to see what you add to the discussion bro
Really an excellent examples of how to work with the lighting and the different modifiers. Thanks for the video Robert Hall
Thank you!
One of the most useful videos I've seen in a long time. Thank you for making it, it answered many of my questions.
This was such an important video. Thank you so much
Great presentation, I used an ad200 with small soft box yesterday and an ad600 with a large very deep soft box both double diffused with amazing results in the late afternoon never going anywhere full power
that umbrella mounting at 3:21 was legit!
tyty, a new method i've been perfecting.
Thank you so much for using my flash, I bought a 47 inch/120cm when a 90cm would have done the job, and give me more light output, and be more portable for use case, this is neat to know I am even able to use it outside, and provided it's always cloudy here, it works in my favour for once
Yes !! Finally found someone to explain the differences to me lol. Really appreciate it. Just came across your channel keep up the great work.
Glad I could help, thank you!
This has been super useful. I was thinking of just buying two speedlights, put both in my Westcott umbrella softbox (28 in, I believe), and call it good. Now this shows me that it could work, but I should also consider other options. Thank you for the vid, and trust me, I hate the phrase too hehe.
Glad you found it useful Pat!
Really, really useful.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us, Robert.
As a potential but currently undecided AD200 or AD400 Godox purchaser, thank you for your service.
Great content. I recently picked up a AD600 pro to compliment my 400 and 200s. Nice to have a general guide to distances.
I hope this can help first time buyers, cause those are the ones typically asking the question after being inspired by other photos.
@@robhallphoto Don't forget the infographic, or make a metric version of it :D
What great information! Thanks Robert. This has helped greatly with my decision to buy an AD400 Pro. (Placed today with Adorama)
Tony & Chelsea Northrup, Fstoppers, & a few others need to listen at 1:54 . I use HSS at every shoot and know it isn't the best for "overpowering" the sun.
The first two you mentioned aren't even providing good content and the first one just reads a PowerPoint
My hss works when manual says NO!...
Use as trigger on optical slave.
Do they say HSS is a better method too? People get so confused by the thought that you're using shutter speed to kill ambient that they think their flash is no longer being affected. It is better in that it gives you control of your aperture back, so I understand that thought, it's just not the most efficient.
Without being salty... All of the 3 after mentioned people aren't known for their verification/investigation/test efforts and they are known for all the mishaps they have in their videos/articles becuase they don't do any verification/investigation/test.
@@vonpotatostein who's the 3rd?
When I first saw the video title I thought “Oh god here we go again.”
I was quite pleased to hear you hate the phrase too!
Great guys! keep up the good work ! .... but in my AD200 I always end up using the included bulb and not the flash mount, because the bulb is much more powerful...
Thanks for sharing this information!!!
Excellent video and thank you so much for including the infographic, it's Gold!
You're very welcome!
THANKS! how perfect, I have the AD400 and a Glow softbox, can't wait to try this out along with dialing back the sun's exposure 1-2 stops
Count on you to dish out practical videos Rob. Great going.. keep them coming.. loving this series :). Thank you.
Did I miss it, are all of the flash units at 1/1 or it's equivalent? BTW WOW that was a lot of great info and most importantly a tremendous amount of work. Thanks
1 min into this and I can already tell this is gonna be a great video! Thanks for this, I’m currently stuck deciding what I want to purchase!
Thank you so much Rob, helpful and informative tutorial! Good luck!
Thanks man. Just bought the AD400 thanks to this advice.
Glad it helped!
I've always used the term "overpower the sun" to mean that the strobe can put more light on the subject than the sun does. And I've always explained that pretty much any flash can overpower the sun in the right conditions. That the discussion is really about whether or not the flash can overpower from a modifier at a useful distance.
I think that whole part of the video was just filler to get it over the 10 min mark for more yt ads lol
The phrase "overpower the sun" is a bit misleading and I don't know why people use it. Pretty much everyone will agree that the sun is the brightest light source available, it's just small and harsh from the perspective of the surface of the earth. And really, you don't want to "overpower" things in some cases, and I think a better phrase is "balance the light" and I see many people starting to use this phrase instead of "overpower the sun". In a number of cases, you may want your subject brighter than the background (rather than just evenly light with the background) but with the right settings (ie. HSS) you can accomplish this with many flashes that are of decent quality and support HSS because you can use your SS to control the ambient light and thus tone down the background (ie. the sun) and incraese the power on your flash or get in closer. So in the right condition as you said, it' possible to overpower the sun in the right conditions and with the right configuration (flash/lighting setup and camera settings) regardless of if the flash is viewed as "being able to overpower the sun".
Thank you, very precise information to such generic and wide topic. Really great overview of what you can expect on normal not super sunny day
Liked, subbed, ripped, saved, archived. It is all here in one video.
Bruh, 15 years of getting confused as heck, maybe even afraid of the sunny 16 rule (probably because it was just charts) and you explained it in a manner that makes a lot of sense. Now I know how one gets to all the other figures.
Cool video. I regularly encounter people online that tell me a speedlite cannot be used to fill sunlight. It’s awkward because I know I’ve done it before.
Robert you are so helpful as I am learning more about HSS and over powering the sun and Thanks fir all the Godoy review I have the 400 pro and was thinking of getting the 600 also
I think that when people use the term “overpowering the Sun” that it is in reference to the light that the Sun casts and not the Sun itself. Let’s face it, when talking about flash power you don’t take a photo of your flash.
"when talking about flash power you don’t take a photo of your flash."
Good point. Still I sometimes take a photo with a flash beam in the frame :P
Thank you! Every question as they came up in my mind you answered.
Excelent video! Next time it would me nice if you could also inform the distances on the metric system, y'know, that one measurement system the entire world outside the USA uses.
Been converted in the description all along!
@@robhallphoto I was about to write the same, didn’t get an idea to check the description.
Very helpful video, thanks a lot! But adding metric system directly to the video should be good idea. Cheers!
Some good info here, some results were more dramatic than I expected. Great video and easy to follow as usual, thank you.
Thank You this is really useful. AD600pro has 74% efficiency of AD400pro. AD600pro-0,13inch/W AD400pro-0,18inch/W in HSS with 43" para softbox
Some pretty interesting results.
Thank you chaps for making the video
Imagine putting in all that effort to make such an informative video like this, i don't know why some people dislike the videos. Lots of jealous people out there ...
Thank you for the video. It really helped to clear the confusion between flash powers.
The best and most reasonable definition of "Overpower the Sun" that I have heard is:
"When the sun is overhead or behind your subject and you add light that casts a shadow behind your subject."
wrong...
My XPLOR400 arrives tomorrow. I hope follow your finding over the weekend. Thanks for the coupon code
You're very welcome, enjoy it!
Good job!
The only thing I really miss in this test, is how a (big) deep silver umbrella would fare.
It should both help focus the light on the subject and the light is not reduced by a front diffusing panel.
From what I have seen, they should help getting the most out of your light on location, if you want a bigger light-source with minimal loss of power/light.
I normally refrain from softboxes and shoot-trough umbrellas on location in strong sun, because they do tend to take away a lot of light on the gear I own.
Great comparisons. I’m gonna have to revisit using fresnel heads. Another modifer I’d be interested to see is a beauty dish. I work a lot on the coast, trying to find the best option that isn’t going to get blown over, lol.
I think the biggest variable while trying to answer this question is the time of day you shoot. Overpowering the sun at noon is different than at golden hour.
Also to me, most people are generally trying to do HSS with a shallow DOF using a medium to large soft box. All of that to get to a ambient that is one stop under is going to require a lot of watts. So if you don't have something like a ad600 or more powerful forget it.
That's exactly why seeing the difference between HSS and SS is so important. Many people might opt for ND filters if they know they can stay in standard sync with an AD200, instead of lugging around an AD600. Agree on the time of day, which is why we used Sunny 16 rule to represent the brightest situation. Anything less, gets you more versatility with your lights.
The only thing is it would be nice (and I guess I will have to try it) to see the speedlight zoomed to 200mm for the fresnel shot since zooming it tightens the pattern and so intensifies the light where it is landing. They might have been able to get the speedlight as far or farther than the AD200 bare at that point. And at those distances you would still light the subject fully.
Excellent demonstration. I love the way you approached it. I just might have to get that large softbox!
Good video Robert!
Would be possible to include measures in centimeters so that it can be understood more easily in the rest of the world?
Thank you!
Good call! I'll update the description
I just want to commend you for putting the work in on this project. Bravo Brother.
Thank you!
This video information was actually refreshing
Hahahah!!! LOVED the speed-lite flip, I gotta learn that - awesome work bro, love your work!
Glad you enjoyed that, it's basically an involuntary habit at this point. It's gonna get me in trouble one day. It's most satisfying with a long lens like the 135 or 70-200 lmao.
I'm surprised! The V860II was very very close to the AD200... that's something I was not expecting... The 400 and 600 were so close too... now I'm sure that I can save some bucks getting the 400 instead of the 600.
I have one of each at the moment, and the v860II is the one I bring along more often (with a remote trigger). Now I admittedly don't use large modifiers outdoors, but for a portable portrait fill in a small softbox, the V860II is a great choice.
Nick great tips
You can get the AD600BM (Manual only, no TTL) which still has the HSS, anx its cheaper than AD400
You know what, the v860 and ad200 is only ½ stop difference btween them. While 400 and 600 is also ½ stop difference between them too.
@@eddyla00 ad400 and ad600 is 1/2 stop. But V860 should be at least 1 stop weaker than ad200 tho, since V860 is around 70 watt/sec, while ad200 is around 200. You gotta test them both with the same zoom setting on the flash head.
This was SUPER helpful. Thank you!!!
interesting and instructive. Just on thing: To get a true relation between different options, distances should not be measured from the flash tube, but from the actual light source, which is the last diffusor/emitter in the light path. that way power differences between eg 400pro and 600 pro are more realistic. The 43" glow has a considerable depth. the light emitter is the front diffuser.
That is correct, and in fact that makes this test not fully valid, unfortunately.
IM SO CONFUSED and overwhelmed lmao
incredibly detailed and helpful, thank you so much!
I am about to watch the video, and I'm sure it is informative. I just want to say I agree with you about the stupid phrase "overpower the sun" I don't know where it came from but I wish we could ban its use.
Excellent informative video. Thankyou for doing it. Can I just ask 1 question? Were all the flashes firing at full power to achieve these results?
Yes
That intro was wild. Over power the sun lol😂
Good work on the flash videos.
Thank you!
Amazing video, as close as you can get to have controls outdoors, and love that you tried both the fresnel and bare bulb on the AD200
Excellent! Very useful and like your presentation speed. 👍
Thanks - it's always nice to have some figures to lean against 👍 Cheers mate
more practical way to measure the light i guess. thank you so much for your afford
Thank you for this video. Very useful comparison.
The latest test were on cloudy sky? It will be different because the sun contribute less light on the object
Nope, doesn't affect the test because the settings are still consistent with Sunny 16, which is why when the sky is cloudy, it is also underexposed. Facial shadows would potentially be filled in a bit more but, the flash exposure would still yield the same result since the sun wasn't hitting the subjects face in any instance.
@@robhallphoto So how did you meter it?
If the sun is bright, although the sun doesn't hit the face directly, the face got more light from all around bounced light from the sun , so the strobe contribute less light if you meter to get f16 (strobe + ambient).
If it's cloudy then to get f16 on the flash meters the strobe contribute more light.
Thank you, thank you. Exactly what I what I was looking for.
Amazing work. Question, it makes sense that the 400/600 don’t do well with the umbrella since so much of their light is lost from the sides due to the bare bulb. It w puke be very interesting to see the effect of using a reflector on the 300/400/600 with an umbrella. I ask because umbrellas are portable, and a reflector like the AD 14 are pretty small as well.
No one is covering this issue because using the reflectors with Godox ad400pro/ad300pro with umbrellas is extremely problematic.
Brilliant video, great information! Thanks
Actual good test!
I always have the issue of wind blowing down my Light-stand with Flash and Umbrella. 5:46 allows the wind to blow away the umbrella since it is more disposable so all I had to do is not tightly attach the umbrella to my Light-stand. Mind Blown!
Keydrin, I simply shorted the two pads on my Flashpoint FPLFX600PTB battery and it began to charge. I didn't have to "jump-start" the batter cells, this time, lol. I guess that Flashpoint XPLOR 600 Pro is a rebrand of the Godox equivalent.
Always enjoy your videos. Thank you.
Could you maybe compare the Orlit Rovelight to the Flashpoint Rapid I'm conflicted between the two
The AC Rovelight? I've kind of abandoned coverage of the Orlit series, while they are capable units they just aren't anywhere near the same system as FP R2. But given that they can be had much cheaper these days because they don't sell as well, I think its a good buy.
Hi Robert! Thanks for this very informative video. I just recently bought my 2 godox ad200. But haven't used it for outdoor shoots. Maybe this weekend. :) just wanna ask if among the all the strobes you used in this video, were they fired at the same flash power? For example, all fired at 1/1 power from farthest to closest? Thanks
All flashes were at 1/1 for all tests
@@robhallphoto Thanks, Robert!
Yes they all will if you have a Hasselblad X1D with leafshutter lenses!
I've tried youngnuo speedlight with godox rp q90 octa. Without front diffuser at 4pm I got decent lighting with fullpower at f22 1/160 iso 100. Softbox edge was at 1.2 meters. Seems like inner silver cover with inner diffusion together gives max output. Amazing results. At f16 it was even better. Background was underexposed for clouds)
i appreciate this
Thanks !!!
GREAT VIDEO and answered all my questions BUT I still don't know which one to upgrade to first. lol. I've gotten away with using the basic speedlight and for sure want to at least get the AD200. The 600 would be nice not sure how versatile it would be in a small space... DECISIONS DECISIONS...
This is informative.
I do suggest that its important to recognize that the large soft box modifiers, when used with a fresnel head (speedlite) set to 24mm are essentially the same as the shoot through umbrella.
Little, if any of the light is being deflected by the sides of the modifier.
This characteristic is confirmed by the similarity in the distances between the umbrella and the soft boxes in the test results.z
I continue to be amused by the insistence of photographers to say that TTL is X number of EV less efficient light. The reality is that it's the same light spread over time to permit the shutter slit to traverse the sensor. TTL is a well designed way to efficiently use a short duration light source to simulate continuous light. Two different tools for two different situations.
In regards to the second part (in which I think you mean HSS, not TTL), it is less efficient. Even if it's the same "total light" created by the strobe, the peak brightness of the light at any given moment is simply less than if it were a standard flash pulse. Duration of the light by using multiple pulses can't be realized by the sensor because of the action of the shutter curtains. In the only sense of it working, it's less efficient.
Brilliant video
The most useful video..keep it up man 👍👍
Thankyou Robert
One other factor you left out is the camera. My little Fuji X-100S does well at balancing flash with ambient outdoors on bright days with nothing more than a Flashpoint branded V860ii because of the leaf shutter. Unlike HSS, which reduce output of strobes, leaf shutter cameras still get the speedlights full power at high shutter speeds. I can shoot at 1/4000th without any loss of strobe power. Of course the fixed focal length is limiting, but that's why I try to find open shade when using my X-T2's in those conditions.
I somehow doubt that you get the full power of a V860 II at 1/4000th shutterspeed - because flash duration of a full power pop on the V860 II is 1/300s (according to specs) and thus way longer than your shutter speed. A leaf shutter only captures the full flash power if the flash duration is shorter than the shutter speed.
But as the most light is emitted right in the beginning of the flash burn, you'll probably still capture more light that way than if you would have used HSS
Yeah, but leaf shutters are a very small niche in our industry, and those who opt to purchase a leaf shutter camera tend to be aware of it's differences.
I use nikon d70 and I can sync at any speed with sync cables. Even with regular flash I can somehow balance the ambiance in midday sun .
@@Mariosch26 You are correct, 1/4000th may have been an extreme example. I also should have been more clear on my statement. At that shutter speed(1/4000) the camera is obviously not capturing the full output of the flash at 1/1. My intent was to point to the fact that when using a leaf shutter, regardless of the set shutter speed, the flash is operating fully at whatever power level you set it to rather than cutting output as it would in HSS. This 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘺 gives you an output/flash exposure closer to that of larger strobes operating in HSS. This, for me at least, has the clear advantage of a smaller overall kit.
@@jimmyhill9591 I absolutely agree that leaf shutter have their advantages when it comes to flash.
And my statement was certainly a bit of nitpicking - I couldn't just go past the implied statement that one could capture a full power flash pop of a V860 II at 1/4000s ;)
But especially using a fast strobe and leaf shutter you can get a whole lot more light than using HSS. Unfortunately, as Rob Hall said, it's kind of a small niche right now - but at some point sensor techology will hopefully has evolved enough that we don't need mechanical shutters anymore and can enjoy the advantages of leaf shutter with every camera
Great video sir, thank you!
Thank you!
That really useful tutorial. Thanks bro
I'm surprised by how powerful a single speedlight is paired up with a softbox or parabox 😲
If you use a leaf shutter lens/camera you gain at least 2 stops because you can sync at 1/1000 or higher, which allows you to use a larger aperture and/or to lose that ND filter. That typically requires (expensive) medium format equipment, the exception being the Fujifilm X100 series. I took some backlit group shots using my X100F in full 4 PM sunlight at a company function, and the small Godox TT350f could “overpower the sun” just fine.
Gé Weijers exactly this. The x100f has become my portrait lens for weddings. Saves me having to invest and carry heavy strobes
One thing I would recommend is MAYBE re-test the AD200 but with the round flash head. Some people will shoot that bare (without any modifier and I'd be curious to see if it makes any difference compared to the Frenel head. My guess is "probably not" but I am curious regardless of how it compares to the AD400 and the flash at least. For me i ended up going with the AD400 over the AD60, mainly because I didn't think that the difference between the AD200 pro (which is what I had to begin with) and the AD600 pro merited the price (I got mine onsale too which helped, so it was I believe around $550 versus $650 regular price, whereas the AD600 Pro is close to $800-$900 depending if it's on sale or not) plus the AD400 is a bit smaller so easier to transport. But your tests to sort of support my expectations of the AD200 and how it compares to the others. Better than hotshoe flash in some cases, but not as good as a larger light like the 400. Then again, the difference isn't huge either, because we are talking about a stop (or so) of light. The hotshoe flash is a bit surprising though in the softbox applications though, almost out-doing the AD200 which I found a bit surprising (and am wondering if maybe the numbers in the graphic got flipped by accident). For me, the ability to shoot farther away while in HSS is what sold me on the AD400 (so I can use it outdoors) but the AD600 was going to be too much and I only shot out in bright light maybe 1/3 of the time, enough to justify buying the light, but not go crazy and buy a super powerful light (which also can have the problem of not being able to be turned down enough, and this is where I think the AD300/400/600 especially area ideal).
I have detailed Godox Power comparisons (over a dozen models) that include comparison between the round head and fresnel. You can search my channel for "Godox Power Comparison" if interested.
The best modifier for overpowering the sun is a parabolic silver umbrella. It is almost twice the power of the bare flash and it is a combination of direction and softness.
This is just beautiful! Thanks so much
Thank you very much. Great job
Thanks for doing this video. definitely gave me a better understanding of what in going to need to do when using my strobes out in the sun. would love to see it added to with more softboxes and strobes. Wondering how the Magbox would do compare to the others and also wonder how the AD200 using the dual head compares to the AD400.
I've got the latter portion of this comment well covered here: th-cam.com/video/t51IsHqwa-8/w-d-xo.html
The AD-B2 is .3 stop more powerful than an AD400 Pro.
As for more softboxes, maybe I'll do a single light power comparison on various modifiers in the future.
its funny how the non-photographer public views the use of lights and modifiers.
i'll be out there in midday sun , and out there with a 48" softbox and ad600 and people on the street ask or comment about why im using a big giant light for lighting . since they think its counterintuitive to need or use strobe light in heavy sun scenarios.
i'll show them the sooc picture (of course on the back of camera) , and they go "ahhh. yes, please continue".