If Tesla announced a delivery van, they would initially claim it would have a 400 mile range, and cost $60,000. When it was actually produced it would cost $100,000 and have a range of 150 miles.
Tesla screws up when they don't slap the crazy out of Elon and remind him they're trying to make something for the average person and not make a car only for him like the cybertruck
@@macbere3326 My gripe is that Tesla promised the moon, the sun and the stars with the Cybertruck and didn't even get us into orbit. When I first heard of the thing, I wondered how they were going to reach the numbers that Elon was talking about in a pickup truck. Now I know better than to take anything Tesla claims too seriously.
As a past owner of a Rivian, you are spot on. Trying to operate in remote areas is daunting, charging stations are few and far between-check out Modoc County. Still I support this innovation-hope for the future.
Nah, van life model needs a generator hanging off the back with enough power for the motor at highway speed. Would be amazing on the highway and way off the main roads.
The range sucks, but for what these vans actually do it's probably way more than needed. I bet 90% of these do less than 100 miles per day. Certainly less than that per shift... And in theory they could charge up whilst being loaded up for the next shift .
The longest range electric van, the Brightdrop vans offer 4WD 178 kWh NMCA (70% less cobalt) a lot of nice features for a good price. I bought one. It's designed for similar use case as the rivian van so it needs a lot of upfitting to make it nice for recreational use. 400 and 600 models with the bigger one happens 620 cubic feet of cargo space. It's very big. Users are reporting over 300 miles of range! 2023 and 2024 model years are available for a pretty good discounted price.
GM Brightdrop van gets 300 mile range it's all wheel drive and thats with 3,000 pounds in cargo. The range is slightly lower if you exclusively drive on the highway EPA 234 range. Just drove two of them yesterday and they are pretty cool and regen braking is amazing.
Delivery vans are (most of the time) going really slow where aerodynamics doesn't play any role. So this whole video is flawed right from the start. Sure, some of them operate outside the city but still, most of them are pure city vehicles doing speeds where aerodynamics isn't a factor.
I'm really interested in the idea of a Telo van. I'm not much of a pickup guy, but an MT1 with a bed cap that sealed out the weather would REALLY be something.
Because Osh-Kosh already being an established defense contractor had a leg up in the bidding process. Also, DeJoy and his cronies really weren't focusing on EVs for their mail delivery vehicles. That only came about because of pressure from Democrats in Congress at the time and it looks even the few EVs that were going to be part of the fleet will be eliminated from the order thanks to the Orange Menace and his hatred of all things EV.
People have massively missed the point of the Rivian van it seems. It's meant to be used for last mile delivery which makes up the majority of van journeys..... It's not meant to be an RV for long ranges, that's a completely different use case.
The thing about battery technology is that more battery is better than less because it means you can charge faster and you don't need 100% of the battery
My max pack R1S tows our 4k lb trailer 225 miles. Also gets 1.6mpkwh. drop the camping trailer and we get 2.6 which works for camping by itself. Not sure if the edv is there yet for this role.
I live in a European city. Some times ago, i talked with a city maintenance technician. They said they had a few 1st gen Renault Zoe electric cars, it was slow and had less than 60km range, but it didnt matter much because they only drove in the city, and each evening they will park the car at the city warehouse for charging during the night. So the range is not a problem, speed is not a problem, and the charging speed is not a problem. Now they have recently bought a couple of VW ID Van. Amazon and DHL deliveries are done by electric cargobicycle postal service is done with small electric Nissan or Citroen minivan. Big semi go to the warehouses around the city, then the small minivans and cargobikes deliver to the door.
No need to accept compromises when living the EV van life. Start with an Anderson Mobile Estate covered in solar with a big onboard battery, and then get a Tesla Semi to pull it with. Anderson makes large format RVs with full length bump outs and bump up roofs to add a second floor living space at your campsite. That would give you 500 miles of highway range or significantly more on slower treks to more remote sites.
Can wait to see a large, fully solar electric longe range RV Camper that has more than 1,000 Kilometers long range ! If Auto Companies wants to make something like that , it definitely will sell like Hot Cakes worldwide ! Hope to see something like that happen someday ! Dream on, guys ! Dream on ! 😃💖🏞🚐🏕💖⚡️🔋💯👍 😉💖🌬🌞🌊⚡️🔋💯👍🌏✌️🙏
I think the Rivian delivery vans would benefit IMMENSELY from Aptera solar. Lots of flat rooftop surface area, and it would reduce their charging demand exponentially when you consider fleet-scale charging.
I thing a lot of the range complaining about electrics having to short of range is a bit over blown. Every time you see someone talking about using a so called lifestyle vehicle, you get all the hooting and hollering about how bad the range is and their favorite diesel truck can go 1000 miles between fill ups and they can fill up in only 5 or 10 minutes and keep going. If you are a road warrior and have to tow your 45 foot 5th wheel trailer that weighs 34,000 pounds at 80 mph for 600 miles before you refill, stick with your big diesel truck or van. But if you realistically look at how you use your life style vehicle, there are a ton of places and times a range of 200 miles plus or minus and a charge time of 20 to 40 minutes works just fine. When people adjust to the slightly different perspective of stopping to charge more often for shorter periods and only charge to 45% or 80% and move on, your charge times are much shorter and faster. Driving a battery powered life style vehicle will require an attitude adjustment. Long term EV operators are starting to figure this out and they are finding an easier time using these vehicles and the charging infrastructure. You can get a lot of practical use out of level II charging infrastructure.
It's interesting that the civilian segment van is still nearly untouched by EVs with the exception of the Buzz (maybe). There are many commercial vans tho, the etransit and bright drop along with the rivian, but all are designed for commercial use cases with optimized range for their purposes. This all makes sense tho as non commercial vans are a tiny segment of the market. It's one of those things we'll get to eventually .
I drive my gas-powered Transit LWB Medium Roof about 350 miles a day 5 days a week as a courier. Not much time for charging during my workday. Most of my miles are on the Freeway at speeds up to 75mph. The a/c stays on almost always. I buy 15 to 24 gallons of gas 5 days a week. I long to go electric, but currently, no vans are close to meeting my needs. Then there is my cargo trailer which makes matters much worse. Then I will have to include battery degradation because my Transit has 531 thousand miles on it. My estimate is that I would need similar size van with 500 miles of range. Less might work with fast charging, but I need it to still be useful as the battery degrades.
Rivian selling individual vans sounds like a good idea until you look at the cost. Businesses like Amazon or AT&T might be able to justify spending 80k on a delivery van but I doubt that the local mom & pop flower shop or catering business would be able to justify that cost especially when Ford makes an E-Transit van starting at 48k.
Think of this this way... EVs work very well since you can charge at home. With a van life van, you are *always* charging at home, so shorter range isn't as big of a problem.
I assume there will be many people who will want this as a work van. most work vans like plumbers and such do not travel more than 50 miles. What disappoints me about tesla is if you watch the flyovers you will notice 2 tesla semi at Fremont and test semis in Nevada but nothing in Texas. they could easily build a few yard trucks to move there warehouse on wheels and more for the transport from Texas to the train and other short trips that are done a lot. But right now they are only using a few for battery deliveries between Nevada and Fremont as for building a delivery Van no Tesla is not making one In the future if they decide to make some they will probably be made at the new semi factory or even the current old hand built line they are using now It always disappoints me when you watch a flyover and see how many non electric vehicles are being used at the plants. Since they are going all in on making EV only they should as much as possible only use EV's at the factory. It is hard to make a case for Tesla being all EV when you see them using diesel semi's for transport and yard trucks. and repair vans are also gas/diesel. every one of those is an advertisement that well Tesla uses these
my e-bike weighs 70 pounds, cost 900$, and has a range of 75 miles. It has a throttle mechanism. It is hard for me to understand how something that is larger, with possibly better motors, and obviouslly larger batteries is struggling to go further then me. To reach exceed the van, i only need 3 batteries, roughly. Sure, i am not going that fast, but some vehicles shouldn't be going that fast. Mail trucks for example need to go slow and make constant stops. Trash trucks are in the same boat. The last mile should be dedictated to electric vehicles that are smaller, and serve a smaller footprint.
it would work great if you just want to take your kids to some nearby beach or park for spending couple hours or 1 or 2 nights there. Or you just want to save rent by living in your company's parking lot where it has charger. But that's very narrow use cases for such expensive van. A used gas van can get you much more
Need a plug-in hybrid version with a range extender, and the battery could be dropped to 80 or 40 miles to save weight & cost for the range extender. Or allow for charging while driving so the owner could make a DIY range extender
Drew, this writer is appalled at your gas/ energy statements. YES, there is big power in the fuel, but it is mostly lost to heat, which is why a huge RV has two 40 gallon gas tanks
I really don't get why the range is so bad. It is difficult to find some usable data. I found 240km Range and 135 kWh capacity for the EDV-500. That's more than 50 kWh/100km. In my hometown in Germany DHL use the newest eSprinter with 113 kWh capacity and the driver told me he gets around 370km range at around 30 kWh/100km. Thats 40% less energy. I really hope i did some mistakes with my research for the rivian otherwise it is not efficient at all. Considering long haul trucks in Europe use around 110 kWh at 40 tons weight at highway speeds, it just gets worse.
How are there anti-EV people not understanding this is an actual practical use for electric vehicles? How funny would it be if Tesla started using Rivian vans for Tesla mobile service, doubt it but would be a sight to see.
I think most vanlife people live in it. They don't drive 160 miles a day because that's three hours of driving. When would they enjoy their life? And if you're slowly exploring the US I heartily recommend not driving from New York to LA via New Orleans and Vegas in 10 days as I did in my youth. We really only saw a fraction of what we would have if we'd had longer. So stop and charge on a destination charger, and actually enjoy the small communities and so on. Plot your route carefully, shouldn't be a problem. Also, solar panels and staying in one spot solves it tbh.
Please, please, please, someone prove me wrong but it's hard for me to see EVs working as lifestyle vehicles. They would have to get 250-300 miles of range before I'd be comfortable using one as a camper. By the time you get a big enough battery to move a van you can comfortably camp in you are looking at unacceptably long charge times
Given the maximum 25% efficiency and for City driving it could go down to zero efficiency, 33 kWh energy in gasoline is not a fair comparison without factoring in efficiency. 8kWh usable energy per gallon For highway driving is really more comparable except you get a lot of free heat energy which is great for winter.
100kwh could power a campsite for a long time! Even in my super aerodynamic EV, o want to stop every couple hours on a road trip, so 160 miles, probably closer to 100 the way i drive would be a downer, but not a deal breaker. I'm willing to have a crappy drive to have an awesome camping setup.
Model Y is the best option for Electric Road life at this point, R1S if you have a partner and need more space. But no FSD or Autopilot...is sacrificing a LOT when traveling cross country.
Delivery vans do not need to be fast. At all. Maximum speed need be no more than the speed limit, probably less. A bigger battery would increase range, but also by restricting the speed of the vehicle through the air. Even an aerodynamic design has to constantly push the frontal profile's worth of air out of the way and fight against the 'vacuum' (depression) created by the forward motion, behind it. The 'CD' of a design is a coefficient, not an absolute. Therefore a van, aerodynamic though it might well be, still takes more energy to get through the air than a standard house brick. Obvious really. Then again, the drag from going through the air isn't nice and simple. The amount of energy to travel at 30mph in a vehicle doesn't simply double at 60mph. What happens is that the drag increases by the 'square', so double, doubled. Therefore instead of taking twice the power, you have to double it twice... x2, then x2 again! This shows us how we can go further using the same battery, just by going slower. So if we set the top speed to 50mph, for example, instead of 70, or 80mph, our van would have a vastly greater range. Stop/start travel eats up energy, because the sheer weight of the vehicle takes a lot of effort to get moving and only a small fraction can be recovered back into the battery by contrast, when coming to a halt. Weight is the enemy. Batteries weigh whatever they weight. You cannot beat the physics, however you can reduce the mass of the rest of the van. Narrower tyres, softer extremities for lightweight crash protection, lower height for less frontal area, narrower for the same reason. Only one motor because that's all it needs, possibly at the front in order to keep the floor as low as possible in the working area. Lightweight materials, but that are also recyclable because a van doesn't last forever. Remember that friction is also got a coefficient involved. Rubber, no matter how wide, has the same grip on a flat surface. You could sit a truck on bicycle tyres and the grip would be the same as on huge tyres (so long as the rubber compound was the same). Much of a tyre's grip comes from the softness of the rubber it's made from sinking into the roughness of the road surface and acting like a sort of anchor. The ability of rubber, not to tear, dictates how much grip you get. A bicycle tyre, while giving identical friction as a huge tyre, has less rubber on the road, so all the grip goes through the small bit that is squiggled onto the road. That little bit can tear far more easily that a big tyre's large amount of rubber touching the road. So... the friction is identical, but the grip is not, but then again it is only a part of the story because friction is the biggest factor. My point in explaining all this is to demonstrate that using large but narrow tyres, you can reduce weight, retain grip and durability and use less energy rolling them along as well. We need to build smarter.
I can tell you right now6 and if online lbs to kg converter correct I don't see how anyone could buy rivian van for deliveries in europe, as converter says it's GVWR is equal to 4303.5kg, which is above car's category allowed weight and for that you need small truck (up to 7.5t) licensed driver, which is paid more, and then on top of that many usecases would be out the window, as it can carry only 1138.39kg, which is verry bad. For example with same license requirements, you can get 7.5t gasoline Iveco daily, which depending on configuration can carry 3-4t of cargo
Two words; Range Extender. Buy in some 2.0L gasoline engines from somewhere, find a place to stick them and their gas tank that doesn't take away too much box space and run it as a generator. Until then stick with cargo delivery variants and maybe add a shuttle-bus one.
a 2L gas engine will produce roughly 150kW naturally aspirated, which is way too much for a range extender with a battery pack this small, even in its most efficient unthrottled form
@@TailosiveEV you hate gas so much when everything is gas even the food you eat, the cups you have there isn’t one thing about your life that’s not connected to petroleum
@@TailosiveEV I hate gas too, and personally I want solar for my “range extender“. But I think maybe you have a blind spot in overlooking the potential of EREVs for the transition to EV’s. Especially for certain applications like larger, heavier vehicles and towing, they can help to solve problems with range and battery size and cost. They can be driven most of the time on electricity. And they have the potential to move both the auto industry and consumers in the right direction, to electric. Heck of a lot better than a gas vehicle.
And this is why eletric will never really take off. I'm more hoping for Hydrogen. Sure its less efficient, but you can get way more mileage, as its more efficient to use a fuel cell than gasoline combustion. And its around the same energy density, of 45.5, while gas is 45.8 Mj/kg. I also don't know why you're against driving a gas vehicle. If you're so concerned about the environment, use E15 or Flex fuel. Which are both bio-fuels (e15 having 15% ethanol with flex fuel having about 85 - 90% ethanol). Emissions of electric vehicles are more in the first 5 - 7 years. Only becoming slightly better after that point. Not to mention electric vehicles are really difficult, if not impossible todo repairs on without heavy and expensive equipment, and are a privacy nightmare for anyone who drives it. Though to be fair same thing in gas cars now. I really don't get the hype, or want for electric cars. The charging infrastructure in my area sucks. EV's in general are a lie on being green, and better. Takes 30 - a hour to charge (assuming you're near empty). It's just idk, the only way they're better is refueling is cheaper.
M8 hydrogen is just a ev with extrasteps😂 you still get the same range and it coast way more to fuel up even Toyota is sseeing the writing they sold more bz4X than miris and the bz4X is a terrible ev 😂
@@mcsike7264 Uh no. Hydrogen gets more range assuming you store it in liquid form, which is the type getting developed. And yeah... Expensive now? Anything new is expensive. Solar was super expensive when it first came out, took what? 3 decades to get the cost down to reasonable levels. You're entire argument is just bad faith.
@@Triro bro hydrogen has to be -250 C to be a liquid were on gods green earth are you gonna do that inside a car/truck and lets not forget how explosive it is there is a reason we use it in rockets and not gasoline also if your gonna use liquid hydrogen its going to habe to be in a ice fuel cells use gas hydrogen which is more efficient but less energy density so your getting the same if not less range than a ev but more expensive fuel and you cant charge at home hydrogen makes no sense it takes more electricity to make green hydrogen tham it is to charge a ev to go the same distance
@@mcsike7264 They didn't order them they leased them lmao. When the lease is up Rivian will be bankrupt because Amazon even said they will not renew. Go educate yourself
@russia4biden221 i need to educate myself coming from the person who thinks rivian is going bankrupt 😂 the irony also rivian and amazon had a agreement for rivian to SELL its delivery vans to amazon for 4 years did not see any lease in the agreement so you might wanna delete your comment 😂
'Van life' with an electric car is just asking for trouble. Try explaining to your wife that you have to plot out a route and you can never be more than 100 miles away from a charging station. It is however a good excuse to never do it.
The trucking industry upset Elon so he started making his own trailers and later his own trucks. I'm not even sure if you need a CDL to drive the Tesla Semi
I've yet to encounter anyone that genuinely cares about their carbon footprint. I feel like the reason why most people buy EVs is because of lower running and maintenance costs, and overall drivetrain refinement and performance. You've gotta be a hardcore liberal for the sole purpose of driving an EV to be for reducing your carbon footprint. EVs are even worse for the environment than ICE vehicles in a lot of ways if you do the calculations.
If Tesla announced a delivery van, they would initially claim it would have a 400 mile range, and cost $60,000. When it was actually produced it would cost $100,000 and have a range of 150 miles.
Tesla screws up when they don't slap the crazy out of Elon and remind him they're trying to make something for the average person and not make a car only for him like the cybertruck
Tesla makes good cars when they can keep Elon focused. All the cars except the cybertruck have been decent cars
@@macbere3326 Tesla makes good cars when they can keep Elon focused *on something else* . The Cybertruck was his pet project from start to finish.
@@nlpntthe cyber truck is experimental truck and a marvel of engineering it has so many features not available to any other cars
@@macbere3326 My gripe is that Tesla promised the moon, the sun and the stars with the Cybertruck and didn't even get us into orbit. When I first heard of the thing, I wondered how they were going to reach the numbers that Elon was talking about in a pickup truck. Now I know better than to take anything Tesla claims too seriously.
As a past owner of a Rivian, you are spot on. Trying to operate in remote areas is daunting, charging stations are few and far between-check out Modoc County. Still I support this innovation-hope for the future.
I could see a van life option that has a solar roof and a massive retractable solar awning.
Nah, van life model needs a generator hanging off the back with enough power for the motor at highway speed. Would be amazing on the highway and way off the main roads.
I don't think this needs more range. The 160mi is okay. Most commercial vans seem to just go through the city, and that's about it.
The range sucks, but for what these vans actually do it's probably way more than needed. I bet 90% of these do less than 100 miles per day. Certainly less than that per shift... And in theory they could charge up whilst being loaded up for the next shift .
The longest range electric van, the Brightdrop vans offer 4WD 178 kWh NMCA (70% less cobalt) a lot of nice features for a good price. I bought one. It's designed for similar use case as the rivian van so it needs a lot of upfitting to make it nice for recreational use. 400 and 600 models with the bigger one happens 620 cubic feet of cargo space. It's very big. Users are reporting over 300 miles of range! 2023 and 2024 model years are available for a pretty good discounted price.
I'll have to see if I can find a video on this. I'd be very interested in how quickly you can charge it.
Ground RV are using ` the Brightdrop and they are reporting about 300 miles at 60 mph.
It's cool to see a van optimised like this for Amazon and other similar companies to go electric
GM Brightdrop van gets 300 mile range it's all wheel drive and thats with 3,000 pounds in cargo. The range is slightly lower if you exclusively drive on the highway EPA 234 range. Just drove two of them yesterday and they are pretty cool and regen braking is amazing.
Delivery vans are (most of the time) going really slow where aerodynamics doesn't play any role. So this whole video is flawed right from the start.
Sure, some of them operate outside the city but still, most of them are pure city vehicles doing speeds where aerodynamics isn't a factor.
this
Yeah start and stop is ideal for an EV. When the average mph of the trip is below 25 the total range goes way up
I'm really interested in the idea of a Telo van. I'm not much of a pickup guy, but an MT1 with a bed cap that sealed out the weather would REALLY be something.
How they did not secure the USPS order is criminal.
Because Osh-Kosh already being an established defense contractor had a leg up in the bidding process. Also, DeJoy and his cronies really weren't focusing on EVs for their mail delivery vehicles. That only came about because of pressure from Democrats in Congress at the time and it looks even the few EVs that were going to be part of the fleet will be eliminated from the order thanks to the Orange Menace and his hatred of all things EV.
People have massively missed the point of the Rivian van it seems. It's meant to be used for last mile delivery which makes up the majority of van journeys..... It's not meant to be an RV for long ranges, that's a completely different use case.
honestly, i drive the cargo van with amazon. delivery drivers don’t really go more than 20 miles, if that.
Rural areas they drive farther distances.
The thing about battery technology is that more battery is better than less because it means you can charge faster and you don't need 100% of the battery
@@gmv0553 also makes up a much lower percentage of the need. cant let perfect get in the way of good/progress
My max pack R1S tows our 4k lb trailer 225 miles. Also gets 1.6mpkwh. drop the camping trailer and we get 2.6 which works for camping by itself. Not sure if the edv is there yet for this role.
Took a Model X on a road trip once, pretty much have to stop for 30 mins every 200 miles. it's really annoying after a while.
I live in a European city.
Some times ago, i talked with a city maintenance technician. They said they had a few 1st gen Renault Zoe electric cars, it was slow and had less than 60km range, but it didnt matter much because they only drove in the city, and each evening they will park the car at the city warehouse for charging during the night.
So the range is not a problem, speed is not a problem, and the charging speed is not a problem.
Now they have recently bought a couple of VW ID Van.
Amazon and DHL deliveries are done by electric cargobicycle
postal service is done with small electric Nissan or Citroen minivan.
Big semi go to the warehouses around the city, then the small minivans and cargobikes deliver to the door.
No need to accept compromises when living the EV van life. Start with an Anderson Mobile Estate covered in solar with a big onboard battery, and then get a Tesla Semi to pull it with. Anderson makes large format RVs with full length bump outs and bump up roofs to add a second floor living space at your campsite. That would give you 500 miles of highway range or significantly more on slower treks to more remote sites.
Each Rivian delivery van is offsetting more CO2 than a Tesla Model Y on a 10,000 mile/year lease sitting in owners driveways, not being driven.
500 mile range empty for cross country road trips to do Van life style travel. ~250kWh.
That's a 250+ kW pack which doesn't exist. There is no place in the US where you need 500 miles of range.
That van would weigh north of 10,000 pounds. Look at the hummer EV with 230kwh pack.
Cover that van with Aptera solar! Probably could get 2.5kw on the top, dash, and front. 4 wheel hub motors as well.
Can wait to see a large, fully solar electric longe range RV Camper that has more than 1,000 Kilometers long range !
If Auto Companies wants to make something like that , it definitely will sell like Hot Cakes worldwide !
Hope to see something like that happen someday !
Dream on, guys !
Dream on !
😃💖🏞🚐🏕💖⚡️🔋💯👍
😉💖🌬🌞🌊⚡️🔋💯👍🌏✌️🙏
GM would fit a 300 kWh battery pack and the vehicle would weigh 12,000 pounds but at least it would have decent range.
Delivery vans don't need big range
I think the Rivian delivery vans would benefit IMMENSELY from Aptera solar. Lots of flat rooftop surface area, and it would reduce their charging demand exponentially when you consider fleet-scale charging.
I thing a lot of the range complaining about electrics having to short of range is a bit over blown. Every time you see someone talking about using a so called lifestyle vehicle, you get all the hooting and hollering about how bad the range is and their favorite diesel truck can go 1000 miles between fill ups and they can fill up in only 5 or 10 minutes and keep going.
If you are a road warrior and have to tow your 45 foot 5th wheel trailer that weighs 34,000 pounds at 80 mph for 600 miles before you refill, stick with your big diesel truck or van. But if you realistically look at how you use your life style vehicle, there are a ton of places and times a range of 200 miles plus or minus and a charge time of 20 to 40 minutes works just fine.
When people adjust to the slightly different perspective of stopping to charge more often for shorter periods and only charge to 45% or 80% and move on, your charge times are much shorter and faster.
Driving a battery powered life style vehicle will require an attitude adjustment. Long term EV operators are starting to figure this out and they are finding an easier time using these vehicles and the charging infrastructure. You can get a lot of practical use out of level II charging infrastructure.
Ford is selling an electric cargo van with 160 miles range, but for only $52K.
EVs are just not feasible for hauling cargo or long distance trips. I definitely wouldn't want to be caught in the wilderness with a dead battery.
Funny how Teslas vans aren't even hybrids, just straight gas.
It's interesting that the civilian segment van is still nearly untouched by EVs with the exception of the Buzz (maybe).
There are many commercial vans tho, the etransit and bright drop along with the rivian, but all are designed for commercial use cases with optimized range for their purposes.
This all makes sense tho as non commercial vans are a tiny segment of the market.
It's one of those things we'll get to eventually .
I drive my gas-powered Transit LWB Medium Roof about 350 miles a day 5 days a week as a courier. Not much time for charging during my workday. Most of my miles are on the Freeway at speeds up to 75mph. The a/c stays on almost always. I buy 15 to 24 gallons of gas 5 days a week. I long to go electric, but currently, no vans are close to meeting my needs. Then there is my cargo trailer which makes matters much worse. Then I will have to include battery degradation because my Transit has 531 thousand miles on it. My estimate is that I would need similar size van with 500 miles of range. Less might work with fast charging, but I need it to still be useful as the battery degrades.
Rivian selling individual vans sounds like a good idea until you look at the cost. Businesses like Amazon or AT&T might be able to justify spending 80k on a delivery van but I doubt that the local mom & pop flower shop or catering business would be able to justify that cost especially when Ford makes an E-Transit van starting at 48k.
Once Quantumscape batteries are out. This van could have insane range.
Think of this this way... EVs work very well since you can charge at home. With a van life van, you are *always* charging at home, so shorter range isn't as big of a problem.
until solar panels get efficient enough
I assume there will be many people who will want this as a work van. most work vans like plumbers and such do not travel more than 50 miles.
What disappoints me about tesla is if you watch the flyovers you will notice 2 tesla semi at Fremont and test semis in Nevada but nothing in Texas. they could easily build a few yard trucks to move there warehouse on wheels and more for the transport from Texas to the train and other short trips that are done a lot. But right now they are only using a few for battery deliveries between Nevada and Fremont
as for building a delivery Van no Tesla is not making one In the future if they decide to make some they will probably be made at the new semi factory or even the current old hand built line they are using now
It always disappoints me when you watch a flyover and see how many non electric vehicles are being used at the plants. Since they are going all in on making EV only they should as much as possible only use EV's at the factory. It is hard to make a case for Tesla being all EV when you see them using diesel semi's for transport and yard trucks. and repair vans are also gas/diesel. every one of those is an advertisement that well Tesla uses these
my e-bike weighs 70 pounds, cost 900$, and has a range of 75 miles. It has a throttle mechanism.
It is hard for me to understand how something that is larger, with possibly better motors, and obviouslly larger batteries is struggling to go further then me. To reach exceed the van, i only need 3 batteries, roughly.
Sure, i am not going that fast, but some vehicles shouldn't be going that fast. Mail trucks for example need to go slow and make constant stops. Trash trucks are in the same boat.
The last mile should be dedictated to electric vehicles that are smaller, and serve a smaller footprint.
it would work great if you just want to take your kids to some nearby beach or park for spending couple hours or 1 or 2 nights there. Or you just want to save rent by living in your company's parking lot where it has charger. But that's very narrow use cases for such expensive van. A used gas van can get you much more
Need a plug-in hybrid version with a range extender, and the battery could be dropped to 80 or 40 miles to save weight & cost for the range extender. Or allow for charging while driving so the owner could make a DIY range extender
What a topic that I have been waiting for.
Drew, this writer is appalled at your gas/ energy statements. YES, there is big power in the fuel, but it is mostly lost to heat, which is why a huge RV has two 40 gallon gas tanks
I really don't get why the range is so bad. It is difficult to find some usable data. I found 240km Range and 135 kWh capacity for the EDV-500. That's more than 50 kWh/100km. In my hometown in Germany DHL use the newest eSprinter with 113 kWh capacity and the driver told me he gets around 370km range at around 30 kWh/100km. Thats 40% less energy. I really hope i did some mistakes with my research for the rivian otherwise it is not efficient at all. Considering long haul trucks in Europe use around 110 kWh at 40 tons weight at highway speeds, it just gets worse.
How are there anti-EV people not understanding this is an actual practical use for electric vehicles?
How funny would it be if Tesla started using Rivian vans for Tesla mobile service, doubt it but would be a sight to see.
I honestly would really like an electric sprinter van to get me to and from clients with all my gear
You cannot get 200 miles from two gallons of gas. A internal combustion engine is not that efficient... if so, we would not need electric cars.
I think most vanlife people live in it. They don't drive 160 miles a day because that's three hours of driving. When would they enjoy their life? And if you're slowly exploring the US I heartily recommend not driving from New York to LA via New Orleans and Vegas in 10 days as I did in my youth. We really only saw a fraction of what we would have if we'd had longer. So stop and charge on a destination charger, and actually enjoy the small communities and so on. Plot your route carefully, shouldn't be a problem. Also, solar panels and staying in one spot solves it tbh.
is that epa range with or without load ??
Probably with, but I’m not sure
I can see a Rivian service vehicle fixing a Tesla🤣
I think it would be an amazing food truck
Class III - VI vehicles for fleet use would be great. Double the pack at 200 KWh, and maybe get 300 mile range.
Please, please, please, someone prove me wrong but it's hard for me to see EVs working as lifestyle vehicles. They would have to get 250-300 miles of range before I'd be comfortable using one as a camper. By the time you get a big enough battery to move a van you can comfortably camp in you are looking at unacceptably long charge times
Given the maximum 25% efficiency and for City driving it could go down to zero efficiency, 33 kWh energy in gasoline is not a fair comparison without factoring in efficiency. 8kWh usable energy per gallon For highway driving is really more comparable except you get a lot of free heat energy which is great for winter.
100kwh could power a campsite for a long time! Even in my super aerodynamic EV, o want to stop every couple hours on a road trip, so 160 miles, probably closer to 100 the way i drive would be a downer, but not a deal breaker. I'm willing to have a crappy drive to have an awesome camping setup.
Make is a PHEV by attaching a generator off the back. No designed changes and BAM! Amazing go anywhere electric van
Model Y is the best option for Electric Road life at this point, R1S if you have a partner and need more space. But no FSD or Autopilot...is sacrificing a LOT when traveling cross country.
😂😂😂😂😂
Honestly a Vixen 21 would probably be a decent form factor
look at the size of the chassis. Why cant there be bigger batteries in it?
Heavy, expensive, and not super needed for most practical use cases (deliveries etc)
Yet to see Amazon using one.
Your audio is out of sync. I'm going to buy one to live in a van down by the river.
For they purchase Canoo??
Delivery vans do not need to be fast. At all. Maximum speed need be no more than the speed limit, probably less. A bigger battery would increase range, but also by restricting the speed of the vehicle through the air. Even an aerodynamic design has to constantly push the frontal profile's worth of air out of the way and fight against the 'vacuum' (depression) created by the forward motion, behind it. The 'CD' of a design is a coefficient, not an absolute. Therefore a van, aerodynamic though it might well be, still takes more energy to get through the air than a standard house brick. Obvious really. Then again, the drag from going through the air isn't nice and simple. The amount of energy to travel at 30mph in a vehicle doesn't simply double at 60mph. What happens is that the drag increases by the 'square', so double, doubled. Therefore instead of taking twice the power, you have to double it twice... x2, then x2 again! This shows us how we can go further using the same battery, just by going slower. So if we set the top speed to 50mph, for example, instead of 70, or 80mph, our van would have a vastly greater range. Stop/start travel eats up energy, because the sheer weight of the vehicle takes a lot of effort to get moving and only a small fraction can be recovered back into the battery by contrast, when coming to a halt. Weight is the enemy. Batteries weigh whatever they weight. You cannot beat the physics, however you can reduce the mass of the rest of the van. Narrower tyres, softer extremities for lightweight crash protection, lower height for less frontal area, narrower for the same reason. Only one motor because that's all it needs, possibly at the front in order to keep the floor as low as possible in the working area. Lightweight materials, but that are also recyclable because a van doesn't last forever. Remember that friction is also got a coefficient involved. Rubber, no matter how wide, has the same grip on a flat surface. You could sit a truck on bicycle tyres and the grip would be the same as on huge tyres (so long as the rubber compound was the same). Much of a tyre's grip comes from the softness of the rubber it's made from sinking into the roughness of the road surface and acting like a sort of anchor. The ability of rubber, not to tear, dictates how much grip you get. A bicycle tyre, while giving identical friction as a huge tyre, has less rubber on the road, so all the grip goes through the small bit that is squiggled onto the road. That little bit can tear far more easily that a big tyre's large amount of rubber touching the road. So... the friction is identical, but the grip is not, but then again it is only a part of the story because friction is the biggest factor. My point in explaining all this is to demonstrate that using large but narrow tyres, you can reduce weight, retain grip and durability and use less energy rolling them along as well. We need to build smarter.
Why wouldnt you do a road trip in a Gas van?
I can tell you right now6 and if online lbs to kg converter correct I don't see how anyone could buy rivian van for deliveries in europe, as converter says it's GVWR is equal to 4303.5kg, which is above car's category allowed weight and for that you need small truck (up to 7.5t) licensed driver, which is paid more, and then on top of that many usecases would be out the window, as it can carry only 1138.39kg, which is verry bad. For example with same license requirements, you can get 7.5t gasoline Iveco daily, which depending on configuration can carry 3-4t of cargo
lost me at "my model 3"
It would be cool if the vehicle could lower in height while it is driving to get better range.
Bro my F250 camper combo gets 7mpg.. Just get the gas van, mane your wife happy
Two words; Range Extender. Buy in some 2.0L gasoline engines from somewhere, find a place to stick them and their gas tank that doesn't take away too much box space and run it as a generator. Until then stick with cargo delivery variants and maybe add a shuttle-bus one.
@@nlpnt it would be awesome if Ford or Chevy could get a four cylinder engine from Toyota
a 2L gas engine will produce roughly 150kW naturally aspirated, which is way too much for a range extender with a battery pack this small, even in its most efficient unthrottled form
Just buy a gas van at that point. I like EVs cause I hate gas
@@TailosiveEV you hate gas so much when everything is gas even the food you eat, the cups you have there isn’t one thing about your life that’s not connected to petroleum
@@TailosiveEV I hate gas too, and personally I want solar for my “range extender“. But I think maybe you have a blind spot in overlooking the potential of EREVs for the transition to EV’s. Especially for certain applications like larger, heavier vehicles and towing, they can help to solve problems with range and battery size and cost. They can be driven most of the time on electricity. And they have the potential to move both the auto industry and consumers in the right direction, to electric.
Heck of a lot better than a gas vehicle.
Please stop gratuitous background noise
And this is why eletric will never really take off.
I'm more hoping for Hydrogen. Sure its less efficient, but you can get way more mileage, as its more efficient to use a fuel cell than gasoline combustion. And its around the same energy density, of 45.5, while gas is 45.8 Mj/kg.
I also don't know why you're against driving a gas vehicle. If you're so concerned about the environment, use E15 or Flex fuel. Which are both bio-fuels (e15 having 15% ethanol with flex fuel having about 85 - 90% ethanol). Emissions of electric vehicles are more in the first 5 - 7 years. Only becoming slightly better after that point.
Not to mention electric vehicles are really difficult, if not impossible todo repairs on without heavy and expensive equipment, and are a privacy nightmare for anyone who drives it. Though to be fair same thing in gas cars now.
I really don't get the hype, or want for electric cars. The charging infrastructure in my area sucks. EV's in general are a lie on being green, and better. Takes 30 - a hour to charge (assuming you're near empty). It's just idk, the only way they're better is refueling is cheaper.
M8 hydrogen is just a ev with extrasteps😂 you still get the same range and it coast way more to fuel up even Toyota is sseeing the writing they sold more bz4X than miris and the bz4X is a terrible ev 😂
@@mcsike7264 Uh no. Hydrogen gets more range assuming you store it in liquid form, which is the type getting developed.
And yeah... Expensive now? Anything new is expensive. Solar was super expensive when it first came out, took what? 3 decades to get the cost down to reasonable levels.
You're entire argument is just bad faith.
@@Triro bro hydrogen has to be -250 C to be a liquid were on gods green earth are you gonna do that inside a car/truck and lets not forget how explosive it is there is a reason we use it in rockets and not gasoline also if your gonna use liquid hydrogen its going to habe to be in a ice fuel cells use gas hydrogen which is more efficient but less energy density so your getting the same if not less range than a ev but more expensive fuel and you cant charge at home hydrogen makes no sense it takes more electricity to make green hydrogen tham it is to charge a ev to go the same distance
@@mcsike7264 Sorry to uh. Break it to you. But its already been done. 💀
Congrats on your research I guess?
@Triro done by who what car tell me since you know and did your research
The best van application would be a plug in hybrid. I wish Ford would build a version of the Transit like that. Would make a great camper van.
buy cheap generator to charge up battery, then you have a super cheap hybrid!
I would drape it in solar panels. No problem. 👍☀️
Its garbage, unreliable, low range. Stop coping
How do you know its garbage and unreliable its not even in customer hands yet 😂
@@mcsike7264 Doesn't need to be in the customer's hands when Amazon has shown us how bad these are.
@russia4biden221 whats the problem with em amazon seem to love em they literally ordered thousands of em
@@mcsike7264 They didn't order them they leased them lmao. When the lease is up Rivian will be bankrupt because Amazon even said they will not renew. Go educate yourself
@russia4biden221 i need to educate myself coming from the person who thinks rivian is going bankrupt 😂 the irony also rivian and amazon had a agreement for rivian to SELL its delivery vans to amazon for 4 years did not see any lease in the agreement so you might wanna delete your comment 😂
Too slow charging
Weight and aerodynamic kill range ford post weight and range of the ford transit EV
'Van life' with an electric car is just asking for trouble.
Try explaining to your wife that you have to plot out a route and you can never be more than 100 miles away from a charging station. It is however a good excuse to never do it.
Charging your camper van is the least problem, you have your bed and toilet with you
The trucking industry upset Elon so he started making his own trailers and later his own trucks. I'm not even sure if you need a CDL to drive the Tesla Semi
CDL license is based on GCWR and GVW! The Tesla semi definitely needs a cdl to drive it!
Choosing to not see all the sights, like national parks, that the country has to offer because you’d have to use an ICE vehicle is an asinine take.
Buy small cheap petrol or diesel generator to charge up battery, then you have a super cheap hybrid with massive range!!!
Cant charge while the car is not in park
2:48 you don't want to do it in a gas vehicle? Why not?
Carbon footprint!
I've yet to encounter anyone that genuinely cares about their carbon footprint. I feel like the reason why most people buy EVs is because of lower running and maintenance costs, and overall drivetrain refinement and performance. You've gotta be a hardcore liberal for the sole purpose of driving an EV to be for reducing your carbon footprint. EVs are even worse for the environment than ICE vehicles in a lot of ways if you do the calculations.
I hate everything about gas. This is an EV channel for a reason. Hate the smell, hate the noise, hate the cost, hate the maintenance
Aight, you do you man.
Haha bro is defending Rivian chill bro stay neutral and funny
6:25 the sprinter and rivian van are nearly identical in shape on the front end and are about the same height. Bad take.
Diesel on top
The real issue is charging speeds that's feel like the real miss. And the lack of onboard power even for refrigeration style delivery van.