This entire lecture was like a cool drink of water in the middle of the Sahara. It helps so much to know that there are people in this field who want to help and understand. As that is what we’re turning to them so desperately for.
Why? Seems like who cares about all the traumatized people _ there's no money in it. Like all we have to do with the traumatized is to attune to the person and explain that dr. Spook brainwashed our parents to neglect and abuse us_ so sorry we made a paper submarine
I've met a BPD chick three years ago and we started dating. What a ride. At times it was horrible. The pushing away, the hatred, the distrust etc. But she was an awesome, caring human at the same time. From the begining, we were going to therapy together. She made trumendous progress. I was probably the only one who truly knew, who she was inside. Behind this defensive wall of BPD. A great partner for life, great human, who just was hurt as small child and hence doesn't trust the world. She is a true keeper. I married her and we have great happy mariage. All she needed was someone who would belive in her and not abandon her. That is the sad thing about BPD. All they need is to be loved, but all they do is to push everyone away.
Thank you at 42 I have come realise I carry bpd! It was late diagnosis due to being very high functioning in all other areas… and I have and am experiencing so many life changes now! I don’t know how love feels.. other than the love i have for my children! Who have now both grown and left the nest! It’s like my purpose has gone! I am trying to get therapy and having emdr 🙏🏻
It seems to me that only Dr. Fisher understands me. The only remaining friends that I have (2 to be exact) will listen to what I have to say about my CPTSD and PTSD (because I experienced both) but they cannot "digest" what I'm saying. I can feel the distance even though both of them have their deeply unresolved CPTSD and one is deep in denial as far as her heartless mother is concerned and what she did to her. It's a very lonely journey but I'm slowly pushing through. I was hoping it would get easier with time but at 48 I must say it's SO not. I isolate much more than I used to but it might be due to my healing process and the fact that I don't want to be people pleaser any more (to which people I know got used to!). I feel like I have outgrown all of my friends in this respect and I would love to surround myself with like minded people if that's even possible to make meaningful friendships at my age.
Same here _ meaningful friendships hmmm. Seems to me that those of us who can tolerate the shame of neglect and toxic parents _ we learn to process our emotions_ but those who can't get stuck and forever need and need external validation of their existence _ie. sex on trains with strangers. I know successful women picking up abandoned boys at 16 years _at traffic corners and paying them with a bag of apples. It's a sick world of trauma.Just like the pervy men that have been doing the same for years_ picking up little girls for sex on traffic corners and paying them with a bag of apples. Women are so traumatized now they behave the same as traumatized men.
I was an abused woman, I saw my mother abused as a teen. I knew and saw a dead woman whose husband killed her. I lived in a nice middle class area. My ex husband was abusive, only once physically. One trauma after another. Never received any understand theraphy. You are describing exactly what happens to women that are abused and or are trauma victims,
I relate at 42. My bpd was late onset due to lots of circumstances changing and a very unhealthy relationship. I don’t know how I compartmentalised it for years… but I have come to realise I was wearing a mask! A happy to go lucky ‘ successful’ single mum people pleaser. It all coming up now! All the suppression and realisation! I think our social networks change as we get older… we have less outlet.. and have to conform to society! My wild party days are over well and truly but it was those days that kept me regulated! Or not! Xx
I really appreciate this lecture. I also want to point out that MBT avoids some of the difficulties you were mentioning regarding Kernberg about 53 minutes in. I’m a MBT practitioner trained by Anthony Bateman and a somatic trauma informed practitioner trained by Albert Wong.
Thanks for talking about adoption as trauma. This is a huge problem with the adoption industry and foster care system. Preverbal traumas go under the radar and are dismissed. Yet the adoption industrial complex depends upon the imposed trauma of relinquishment and separation while never addressing it. Adult adpted people find it incumbent on themselves to have to deal with it.
Wonderful explanation that validates and puts words to my experience! The part that touched me the most was the slide that seemed to flip two sides of the same card, comparing cptsd and bpd. I dont have a bpd diagnosis but i have a note in my medical record that mentions it and it has poisoned providers ability to think and give me a correct diagnosis for my physical issues. I have ANS dysfunction known as dysautonomia, trauma is one of the possible causes for the condition
The way this encapsulated my experience down to a t. That said, I don’t enjoy the stigma of bpd, but I do like that the general point of the term can capture how chaotic it is to have. Our minds are messy, but this might be my age and my presence online creates a bias
The enforcement of strict gender roles in the US makes it difficult here to destigmatize BPD or change the name. It is difficult for women to be individuals here. We have to conform. Dr. Fisher is a rarity. Most women prefer to punish traumatized women instead of helping those who don’t fit into a box.
Patriarchy. Try to find a society or a religion that are not patriarchal. You won't find any. There are different levels depending of the cult-ure but they all patriarchal based.
@@Lyrielonwind I agree, but the rest of the world has included complex PTSD in the ICD-11. The US still refuses to incorporate complex PTSD into the DSM V.
I don't know a country, society or religion that are not patriarchal in some level and being submissive is at the core of the idea of feminity. No society want to face childhood abuse as systemic. Parents often view their offspring as property and rulers of their lives. Just taking in consideration that most people who are diagnosed as BPD are women, viewing the effects of patriarchy can't be avoided either because there's is a machismo bias in psychology and psychiatry diagnosis and/or it's societies's values which is at the root of the problem by considering abusing girls and women is somehow "normal" and needed.
Definitely some (trauma)attachment issues in people with bpd. But I personally don’t think it explains it all. My mom has schizo affective/bpd, her mom was schizo affective. I inherited the emotional instability, but no bipolar/psychosis, but full on bpd, with the rapid mood changes, impulsivity etc. I don’t think that was because of any major trauma. I didn’t bond with my (npd)dad, but could with my mom, and was pretty happy until my teens. When my mom started to get her first psychosis I had no one really after 10y to offer emotional support, guidance. Because of being bullied I started to cut myself in my teen years. Till this day, 36y old, I still self harm on and off. A lot of love addiction and unhealthy habits in between. I mostly become dysregulated after getting rejected or from perceived rejections. But even in my stable periods I’m more depressed, hopeless, negative than not. My mom’s upbringing was truly traumatic, but I can see the same emotional sensitivity in her that I have, when something stresses her out it expresses itself in hearing voices, sometimes hallucinations, periods of being manic, but also acting out and threatening to off herself when she doesn’t get her way. So yeah I think a lot of my vulnerabilities are probably genetic. And I probably could’ve grown up, had a normal stable life myself, if my mom’s mental health didn’t deteriorate that much. But the emotional vulnerabilities/temperament was always there probably, plus environment, not having emotionally available parents anymore= developed bpd. I suppose everyone is different, and might have developed it differently. Or there should just be better screening, different labels for more genetic/brain types of borderline and trauma induced. And sometimes it seems like it’s a bit of a chicken/egg type of situation. People in families with cluster B personalities/brains/genetics traumatize the next generation. But was it the trauma or the faulty genetics, emotional vulnerabilities that came first.. I don’t have sexual trauma’s, or beyond some neglect, bullying have things in my past that I need to process now, and if I do I could be healed. Just a different perspective. Anyway still an interesting talk.
This entire lecture was like a cool drink of water in the middle of the Sahara. It helps so much to know that there are people in this field who want to help and understand. As that is what we’re turning to them so desperately for.
Dr. Fisher you are a treasure. Thank you for continuing to advocate for all the abuse victims that have lost their voice. 👏
Fear comes to coexist with caregiving. Brilliant.
How is this possible that this gem of a lecture has so few views (let alone likes)?
Why? Seems like who cares about all the traumatized people _ there's no money in it. Like all we have to do with the traumatized is to attune to the person and explain that dr. Spook brainwashed our parents to neglect and abuse us_ so sorry we made a paper submarine
BC that's the type of society we live in
The reason it's gender bias, obviously
Has to do with Power and Control
I've met a BPD chick three years ago and we started dating. What a ride. At times it was horrible. The pushing away, the hatred, the distrust etc. But she was an awesome, caring human at the same time. From the begining, we were going to therapy together. She made trumendous progress. I was probably the only one who truly knew, who she was inside. Behind this defensive wall of BPD. A great partner for life, great human, who just was hurt as small child and hence doesn't trust the world. She is a true keeper. I married her and we have great happy mariage. All she needed was someone who would belive in her and not abandon her.
That is the sad thing about BPD. All they need is to be loved, but all they do is to push everyone away.
My husband did the same for me.
She is extremely lucky to have found you. Or you her. People like you are more than rare. I am glad you both found happiness!😊
Fantastic presentation. Please keep posting content like this from experts. It's so valuable.
Great presentation! 👏 BPD is such a problematic diagnosis for women.
This is so well expressed. Indeed traumatic attachment disorder is a much better descriptor.
It's surprising how BPD is more stigmatizing than NPD even in therapeutic settings.
It seems that NPD is somehow rewarded by societies.
This reframing is 100 legit. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you at 42 I have come realise I carry bpd! It was late diagnosis due to being very high functioning in all other areas… and I have and am experiencing so many life changes now! I don’t know how love feels.. other than the love i have for my children! Who have now both grown and left the nest! It’s like my purpose has gone! I am trying to get therapy and having emdr 🙏🏻
Extremely helpful ..with gratitude for sharing your wisdom
I think you're seriously beaut Dr Janina Fisher!! I love listening to you.
Doesn’t she have the most calming voice?
I got so much out of this and many thoughts expressed addressed many elephants in the room. Highly fruitful chat. Blessings
It seems to me that only Dr. Fisher understands me. The only remaining friends that I have (2 to be exact) will listen to what I have to say about my CPTSD and PTSD (because I experienced both) but they cannot "digest" what I'm saying. I can feel the distance even though both of them have their deeply unresolved CPTSD and one is deep in denial as far as her heartless mother is concerned and what she did to her. It's a very lonely journey but I'm slowly pushing through. I was hoping it would get easier with time but at 48 I must say it's SO not. I isolate much more than I used to but it might be due to my healing process and the fact that I don't want to be people pleaser any more (to which people I know got used to!). I feel like I have outgrown all of my friends in this respect and I would love to surround myself with like minded people if that's even possible to make meaningful friendships at my age.
Same here _ meaningful friendships hmmm. Seems to me that those of us who can tolerate the shame of neglect and toxic parents _ we learn to process our emotions_ but those who can't get stuck and forever need and need external validation of their existence _ie. sex on trains with strangers. I know successful women picking up abandoned boys at 16 years _at traffic corners and paying them with a bag of apples. It's a sick world of trauma.Just like the pervy men that have been doing the same for years_ picking up little girls for sex on traffic corners and paying them with a bag of apples. Women are so traumatized now they behave the same as traumatized men.
I was an abused woman, I saw my mother abused as a teen. I knew and saw a dead woman whose husband killed her. I lived in a nice middle class area. My ex husband was abusive, only once physically. One trauma after another. Never received any understand theraphy. You are describing exactly what happens to women that are abused and or are trauma victims,
I relate at 42. My bpd was late onset due to lots of circumstances changing and a very unhealthy relationship. I don’t know how I compartmentalised it for years… but I have come to realise I was wearing a mask! A happy to go lucky ‘ successful’ single mum people pleaser. It all coming up now! All the suppression and realisation! I think our social networks change as we get older… we have less outlet.. and have to conform to society! My wild party days are over well and truly but it was those days that kept me regulated! Or not!
Xx
I really appreciate this lecture. I also want to point out that MBT avoids some of the difficulties you were mentioning regarding Kernberg about 53 minutes in. I’m a MBT practitioner trained by Anthony Bateman and a somatic trauma informed practitioner trained by Albert Wong.
Thanks for talking about adoption as trauma. This is a huge problem with the adoption industry and foster care system. Preverbal traumas go under the radar and are dismissed. Yet the adoption industrial complex depends upon the imposed trauma of relinquishment and separation while never addressing it.
Adult adpted people find it incumbent on themselves to have to deal with it.
Adoption. Information about healing this would be helpful.
Spot on!
Wonderful explanation that validates and puts words to my experience!
The part that touched me the most was the slide that seemed to flip two sides of the same card, comparing cptsd and bpd.
I dont have a bpd diagnosis but i have a note in my medical record that mentions it and it has poisoned providers ability to think and give me a correct diagnosis for my physical issues.
I have ANS dysfunction known as dysautonomia, trauma is one of the possible causes for the condition
This lady reminds me of my therapist 😊
Spot on.
Ty 🙏 so much wisdom
I also hate spilling my guts to a stranger. It makes finding a therapist seriously traumatic
Chronic Invalidation can be a trigger for traumatized people. Especially by people in power such as Healthcare staff.
Finding a decent therapist is getting harder and harder
Many therapists don't want to deal with BPD patients. They are more stigmated than NPD patients which are not to abundant in therapeutic settings.
@@LyrielonwindBecause NPD at least knows how to pretend that they have good sense
Informative...
The way this encapsulated my experience down to a t. That said, I don’t enjoy the stigma of bpd, but I do like that the general point of the term can capture how chaotic it is to have. Our minds are messy, but this might be my age and my presence online creates a bias
I view BPD as a extreme case of complex PTSD or betrayal and childhood trauma.
@@Lyrielonwind I do aswell, I had a very iffy childhood with some medical neglect sprinkled in for fun
@@Lyrielonwindbessel van der kolk agrees. I think bpd has been removed from dsm as it was a false, pejorative label.
I never thought of killing myself _ because i was surrounded by so many sick people i had to stay sane_ i was everyones caregiver_
The enforcement of strict gender roles in the US makes it difficult here to destigmatize BPD or change the name. It is difficult for women to be individuals here. We have to conform. Dr. Fisher is a rarity. Most women prefer to punish traumatized women instead of helping those who don’t fit into a box.
Patriarchy.
Try to find a society or a religion that are not patriarchal. You won't find any. There are different levels depending of the cult-ure but they all patriarchal based.
@@Lyrielonwind I agree, but the rest of the world has included complex PTSD in the ICD-11. The US still refuses to incorporate complex PTSD into the DSM V.
I don't know a country, society or religion that are not patriarchal in some level and being submissive is at the core of the idea of feminity.
No society want to face childhood abuse as systemic. Parents often view their offspring as property and rulers of their lives.
Just taking in consideration that most people who are diagnosed as BPD are women, viewing the effects of patriarchy can't be avoided either because there's is a machismo bias in psychology and psychiatry diagnosis and/or it's societies's values which is at the root of the problem by considering abusing girls and women is somehow "normal" and needed.
Definitely some (trauma)attachment issues in people with bpd. But I personally don’t think it explains it all. My mom has schizo affective/bpd, her mom was schizo affective. I inherited the emotional instability, but no bipolar/psychosis, but full on bpd, with the rapid mood changes, impulsivity etc. I don’t think that was because of any major trauma. I didn’t bond with my (npd)dad, but could with my mom, and was pretty happy until my teens. When my mom started to get her first psychosis I had no one really after 10y to offer emotional support, guidance. Because of being bullied I started to cut myself in my teen years. Till this day, 36y old, I still self harm on and off. A lot of love addiction and unhealthy habits in between. I mostly become dysregulated after getting rejected or from perceived rejections. But even in my stable periods I’m more depressed, hopeless, negative than not. My mom’s upbringing was truly traumatic, but I can see the same emotional sensitivity in her that I have, when something stresses her out it expresses itself in hearing voices, sometimes hallucinations, periods of being manic, but also acting out and threatening to off herself when she doesn’t get her way. So yeah I think a lot of my vulnerabilities are probably genetic. And I probably could’ve grown up, had a normal stable life myself, if my mom’s mental health didn’t deteriorate that much. But the emotional vulnerabilities/temperament was always there probably, plus environment, not having emotionally available parents anymore= developed bpd. I suppose everyone is different, and might have developed it differently. Or there should just be better screening, different labels for more genetic/brain types of borderline and trauma induced. And sometimes it seems like it’s a bit of a chicken/egg type of situation. People in families with cluster B personalities/brains/genetics traumatize the next generation. But was it the trauma or the faulty genetics, emotional vulnerabilities that came first..
I don’t have sexual trauma’s, or beyond some neglect, bullying have things in my past that I need to process now, and if I do I could be healed. Just a different perspective. Anyway still an interesting talk.
adult traumatized react the same