Franco Corelli on mask singing. Mask vs non mask singing examples.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2017
- Franco Corelli is being interviewed by Stefan Zucker on a radio podcast. A listener has written in and states that as well as singing with a low larynx, Corelli sings in the mask to get squillo. Corelli states that singing in the mask is incorrect. A side by side video comparing tenors Tito Schipa, and Alfredo Kraus, singing M'appari, from Flotows Martha. Both are leggiero tenors. Kraus is nasal and masky, Schipa is not.
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As a student of the old technique, and now professor, I think I could make an observation. We have the books from the period of Caruso, and the best of them were about the intention to sing with great beauty. The absolute goal of the singers of Caruso's epoch was to create beauty using the least effort possible, so that the voice itself did not become the focus of the work. That's why they strove for beautiful vowels (vocalises) and clear diction, with rich understanding of the texts and the dramatic history. They practiced a level of release of tension throughout the vocal tract and the abdomincal support area, so that the voice could freely express its emotions using the natural mechanisms of speech and the singer's own theatrical instincts. Clippinger, Taylor, Françon-Davies, and the others urged singers not to get bogged down in the minutia of a high or low larynx but focus on the text and the reason why you are singing - convince your listeners. The voice that finds itself expressed easily and dramatically will ring in the mask naturally. The larynx may appear to be held low, but these singers did not manipuate the larynx, they just let it hang free in a loose throat. We lost this knowledge for more than 50 years, but with the internet, the old books are back in circulation. On archive.org, you can find them all under the search term "Voice Culture". When the old ideas are applied to today's singers, ithey work like it's magic. I was so impressed, i wrote a book on it - How to Sing Like the Great Singers.
I would finish by saying that both of these men were great artists and unquestionably had mastered the technique for their specific voices. That''s what really counts.
Hi, I did the search like you recommended but there are too many books and most of them not directly about singing.
Would you kindly tell me the title of a book, please? I would appreciate your reply.
@@Maris_Hvidt It's The Renaissance of the Vocal Art, by Edmund John Myer, 1902, USA
@@Maris_Hvidt Myer's book incorporates all that I found in my research. If you read it carefully, and do as he says, you're sure to get results.
@@robinhendrix66 Thank you very much 😊
Not only that, not focusing on the voice has the purpose of achieving synergy of the vocal apparatus, if you stress about it your body turns rigid, thus the key is to detach from our modern neurotic concept of thinking and use intention: Shen in Chinese medicine, this is a basic concept of meditation, qigong and taijiquan (any neigong practice really). When you clear the mind you start focusing in the singing moment and use singing as you would walk around a park or do something trivial like talking but consciously.
I like how Franco Corelli was being very polite while answering the question to the operatic tenor who asked him the question and was disagreeing with the tenor in an aggressive way. He was like "With all due respect" or "No mean to bother you or anything but" which is something that I respect. Interacting with others in the professional world means being polite along with other things.
I so agree. The best teachers understand this. Placement is taboo. The feeling of resonance in the mask is a result not a goal or correct vocal technique. For the voice to "ring", the throat must be OPEN, the larynx must be in a relatively low position, NOT RAISED to create the maximum vocal cavity, so the logical approach is thinking backwards and NOT forward into the mask. There is too much confusion in voice teaching and too many variations in interpreting correct singing technique. Placing the sound in a certain place will only restrict the vocal mechanism and impede vocal freedom. Anyone who says that Mario Del Monaco's voice didn't have "ring" knows nothing about voice.
MDM is not a good example of singing. All time loud and the same sound. And it's because he sang not in the right point. A lot of singers have very loud voice. MDM sang in 60s when the opera singing was elite, there were no 1000+ singers after conservatory every year, like in nowadays. So it's because he went famous. Cause no choice. Corelli had much colored voice, stretched in 2.5 octaves with dynamic from FF to PP. Cause he sand in right place.
@@SymphonyLife he may be not the best example but he was a great singer.
In some point he became too stentorian in his singing but if you listen to the Ballo in Maschera From 1946, I think, that there is in YT you will hear how he was capable of diminuendi and much more sutil un his singing in his early years. I think in one point he got devoured by "Mario Del Monaco The Great Dramatic Tenor" but even then he was a force to reckon.
He got to be superstar in the time where there were many many many great singers around. Now we have thousands of singers coming out of the concervatories but very few great singers.
@@SymphonyLife There are many examples of MDM singing with nuance and mezza voce` here on Y.T. O Paradiso, M' Appari, Flower song, Lamento Di Federico, 1954 RARI Tosca , encores E Lucevan Le Stelle, with mezza voce` & Diminuendo, Sings the laughing Scherzo aria 1946, " Corelli could NOT do this, hits all the 1/8 notes in the Pira that no one sings, had a Cadenza in La donna E mobile that Corelli never had. No Choice? Del Monaco sang at the Met from 1951 to 1959, and Debut in 1945 Tucker, Bergonzi, Bjorling,Di Stefano,Filippeschi, Lauri Volpi, Labo, Gigli, to name a few. Corelli was 6 years younger than MDM & made his debut at the Met in 1961 & officially retired in 1976. You should get your facts right. MDM was a dramatic tenor and Corelli was a spinto
@@sugarbist Everything about art depends on a taste. I cannot listen MDM full opera, get tired because of voice. That's it. So no reason for meaning fight :)
SymphonyLife Agreed, I feel the same way about Corelli. I saw both tenors live circa 1961. Both different but both fantastic. Enjoy
Did any one here actually hear Kraus in the theatre? If you did, you would know that his voice was not constricted and nasal! His projection was fantastic, and the ability to crescendo from a small sound to one which filled the theatre was as good as I have heard from any singer. Some people might not like the tonal quality, but that was his voice and nothing could change that. Personally I loved it, his elegant style of singing combined with his acting ability made him one of the great opera singers of the 2nd half of the 20th Century. He sang almost to the day he died with little degradation to his voice....and he didn't need to transpose arias down. Schipa was also a wonderful singer of course ....why compare two unique artists? Celebrate them instead!
Alfredo Kraus is a singing lesson... He never sang anything that did not fit him. A tremedous artist. Yes I agree with you : we can enjoy so many different artists. They give us so much pleasure. We must thank them and not criticize them.
Have you taken singing lessons with Kraus? Obviously not. Kraus was a master of his own technique. In the theater he sounded always present and clear. Big, never. All right, may be in the high C.
What he explained in his teachings is that the voice has to be driven to the nose. Not maschera only, but actually in the nose. But then, he sings with something else. And that something else is the key.
Kraus was one of the great singers of all times, but things are the way they are. Do you like his sound? Wonderful. I like his consistency and longevity. But his sound is not the best, FOR ME. Even though when I was next to him on stage (in the chorus) he sounded small. But in the audience he sounded very present.
Kraus was half Austrian and inherited the seriousness approach to singing. He preferred musicality, legato and security on his vocal sounds than big and open.
I have studied Kraus and with people who were tought by Kraus, and his way of singing is so personal, that other singers who imitated him ( and there are plenty, these days), sounded empty and without pathos.
I don't know, now that I am older, if his way of teaching has created more problems that good things.
I still go back to his good recordings and videos (not the one they re showing here, they have chosen a bad recording and a bad day) and I feel an incredible sense of admiration.
Indeed operahip!!! I saw Kraus in Hoffman at the Chicago Lyric Opera in 1984 or 1985. He had this way of opening up his voice to fill every inch of a 3,000+ seat opera house. He did not sound nasal live at all.
Later in his career was nasal and constricted, but in the 50s, 60s and 70s he did NOT sing in the mask.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 When I saw Krause in the mid 80's he was amazing. He opened up his voice to fill the 3,000+ seat Lyric Opera of Chicago. You can't do that all in the mask.
Very interesting to hear Corelli's comments. I heard Kraus months at the end of his life. In the hall, filled with his sound and impeccable diction, I heard a 70+ man sing rings around those decades younger. Yes, it was nasal, but glorious, expressive and completely under control from p to f. I think sometimes the " right" way adapts to different gifts. Love your channel.
franzitaduz Definitely
The question is whether the nasal sound of Kraus's voice was technically nasal, if you know what I mean. It may be just the nature of the sound with timbre as outcome. Otherwise he would not be able to sing so good that long...
You’re kidding. He wobbled and sounded very nasty.
@@dale4853 Kraus started to sound old 1 year before he died...Corelli sounded wobble at 50 years old, in 1970..not only wobble but nayty wobble...listen to recordings on youtube
@@Jeff4014 Well Franco did not say anything about Kraus. It is the person who made the video that added Kraus. Franco's problems were more psychological then physical.
My Teacher attended a concert in LA with Jan Peerce, Bjorling, and Schipa on the card. JP was nasal - JB was perfect and unique, but Schipa surprised him with the clarity, style, and how far the voice traveled with no strain....
Grande corelli. Il suono non va mai spinto in maschera! Questo Purtroppo molti insegnanti lo ignorano, e cercano di andare contro natura
Thanks for this video!
Corelli is saying that if you send,Squeeze, squash, push the voice in the mask, the throat closes. When a singer does this, the throat gets distorted, suffers and closes. The forcing of the voice in the mask is evidenced by the singer starting to labor and tire, ultimately exhausting himself.
The voice of the interviewer make me fearful
Mr. Corelli explains the vocal technique, please do not write anything, listen and just do
As does Pavorotti in one clip on YT. He specifically talks about the importance of the lowered
larynx
When the greatest tenor and the voice of the century tells you to sing not using the mask, I just listen and do as he says. No need to disagree unless you can sing as good as Corelli.
you can tell that singing in the mask is more pushed, and weakens the voice, its bright but compromised.
I have experimented with this reaching a wide range with squillo!* The thing with placement, in my opinion is that people feel the vibrations in part(s) of the mouth & throat and immediately try to control it through tension in that area, that mutes the reverberation of the sound produced by the vocal cords... relaxation and dynamic force is key: QiGong, pilates and other similar disciplines promote the understanding of the body dynamics from this paradigm of mind to relaxation, hence can be beneficial for this endeavour of singing.
Also, other traditions of singing like Flamenco, Hispanic copla, Mongolian and Tibetan traditions also apply similar concepts: Mongolians, for example, tend to put lots of attention in posture and, apparently, to focus on what the Chinese tradition define as "lower Dan Dien", placement of the sacrum. This area allows positioning the voice from the core in complete relaxation, which is also the key for controlled distortion of the sound as well as compression. Tibetan singing is utter lowering of the (relaxed) throat plus magnificent distortion (generated by breaking the voice, not by vocal fry). All of this comes from this "activation" the sacrum area; most people just clinch up this area as if their life depends on this, and that has a direct effect on the stiffness of the body: learn to walk without contracting this area and you will see improvements in singing (and talking) almost immediately.
*(squillo feels like it's a fiddle string ringing in your head plus a clear echo in the room, and when produced you don't think on the notes you want to produce)
Where does Stefan Zucker put his voice? Really taxing to listen to, and it is a pity because, it IS very interesting what Corelli says.
What nobody ever really says about Kraus (which I find astonishing) is that physiologically he had a large nose and therefore exaggerated cavities of natural resonance.
My belief is that he does not “sing in the mask” rather his natural voice which he sings via an open throat has a nasal quality because of this. But it is beautiful since it is not in the nose and is naturally placed and naturally supported.
I.e. his voice is a reflection of his individual physiology. If he used mask placement he’d sound a hell of a lot more nasal (dreadful) and would have no freedom in the upper register.
Imitate Kraus’ technique with an open throat and you find a natural placement behind the nose NOT in it. Kraus sounded like a guy with a big nose because he was a guy with a big nose. Changing its inherent nature would mean singing with a false voice.
Except that's not how the voice works. Placement singing is secondary, sympathetic vibrations that have little to nothing to do with the voice. The voice is produced from the folds and resonates from the larynx to the pharynx, and modified by the tongue.
Voice's ring and squillo just depends on a laryngeal sphincter. As more squillo and ring you want as more constriction of sphincter you do. But don't forget to train you false vocal cords to be opened. Narrow sphincter's space gives you an ability to strenghten your high frequency in sound and create condition for cords to connect very easy, light, with thin edges. Right breathing (right way to taking breath, moves of diaphragm etc) is a key control of first stimul to start produsing sound give you ability to control your larynx sphincter and feel appoggio). More high frequency you do so more "right" mask feelings you get. Just you need to do some special excersises. Easy!
In my opinion this is all made too complicated. He mentions to follow nature and I agree. Singing is speaking in pitch which is what Tito is doing - you can see him say this on a film where he is teaching a student. Anything else is doing something not natural - that is “placing” the voice in the mask
just by the sound, how it sounds to me is that the difference is like as thin as a piece of paper but the result that difference brings is huge.
Thanks, this clear explanation is just more make sense to me.
Just wondering how old school opera singer sing contemporary song with their own way. They absolutely don't need mic.
Grande Corelli!
Age does not matter to the question of technique, nor does a semitone or two higher or lower. That should be obvious from hundreds of good old recordings. Please, modern singer colleagues, don't try bad excuses! ;) As a stunning example I would like to refer to Loforese at the age of 92: th-cam.com/video/S5JU95a2Z0o/w-d-xo.html.
I would say that Kraus has a piercing and metallic voice.
Hard call. Both really fine singing! Both had long careers. While I don't know if it's the recording or not, Schipa's recording is a half step down from the original key while Kraus is in the original key (top not B flat). While Schipa looks more at ease, is it because he is singing a half step below or is it the recording? In any case both are legendary, great tenors who I respect and admire!
Just wanted to tell everyone here that once I had dinner with Kraus and he not only recognized that mask resonance existed but he insisted that it *MUST* be used.
I am not a voice expert, I am just repeating what Kraus told me.
Flavio Graf he is on record as a great believer in mask placement. His masterclass (available on YT) is a prime example. Kraus and Corelli were both outstanding artists, but possessed two totally different instruments and singing philosophies.
A whole bunch of the ping in the black and white recording is mainly from the compression and distortion of the audio recording media. The concert recording is unprocessed, the film has heavy visual and audio post production.
NO ME PARECE JUSTA LA COMPARACIÓN DE DOS GRANDES TENORES PERO A MUY DIFERENTES EDADES
Alfredo got away with cricoarythnoid dominance in his voice, most can't .The truth is that nasal singing limits what a voice can do. Live, Schipa must have had richer overtones in his voice. This is a video worth showing because too many teacher advocate mask placement which is harmful. Krause was one of those advocating as such.
I would only add, that if you listen carefully to Franco Correli, he does not say singing in the mask is wrong. What he states is that when you sing in the mask it is "sul fiato" or the breathe. In other singing in the mask is done by floating the larynx on a pillow of breathe. What's interesting is that when I have my moments of perfect sounding singing, I can seeing many notes using two different kinds of techniques. One technique being that I use the breath to sing you particular note and it will sound the same when I muscle it through in the second way, although it will sound the same it will be done technically different. Franco Carelli also says that even when you don't feel it in the mask you're actually singing in the mask.. My opinion on why that is is because your voice is either tired , Or is tired because it lacks technique and so you don't feel it in the mask. But that doesn't mean that you're not singing in the mask. I think that is worth noting. Sometimes were using good technique however we can't tell by the sound because our Instruments are too tired. Is somebody who struggled feeling it in the mask wasy
Schipa adhered to strict proper prounciation or "pure vowels". There's a video of him explaining this. Nasality in the vowel would run contrary to this.
@@darklord220 could you link that video of schipa pls?
I was onstage with Kraus, once in the chorus and once as a soloist, and was in a private class he taught to 4 tenors...I believe that half of his nasality was simply his physiology.
Amazing 😍
I always enjoyed Krause but more for his elegance and musicality than the sound of the voice which was a bit to pressed forward for my taste.
I love Corelli. I also love Kraus.
@P. Lochs Heard. Thanks. God bless you.
@Barone Vitellio Scarpia Seriously? Kraus was a light lyric tenor and Corelli was a Spinto Dramatic. Other than both singer's being tenor's how do they compare at all? BTW, My apple is much better that your pear.
@@maximus1295 Schipa did not have the facility in his upper register like Kraus , but Schipa was an excellent interpreter and many times, mesmerizing to his listeners. I enjoy his Italian songs that are done with finesse. Kraus was exceptional as well, with his interpretation's of opera's and Zarzuela's, but I do not listen much to Zarzuela's
@@maximus1295 For me, Schipa is a very elegant singer, pulling me in to his interpretation and being intimate.
@@maximus1295Unfortunately, It took me years to appreciate Schipa, as I was exposed to Di Stefano Corelli, Del Monaco, Tucker, Bjorling and Lanza. in the America songs which occupied my listening. Who needed anyone else. I also appreciate many other tenor,s that are perhaps "great" not great" but very good. Vasco Campagnano, Barioni, Albanese," Pertile Mesmerizing,", Merli, Tucker great or excellent" Lamberti, Limarilli, Cecchele "Zenatello Terrific" Volpi Great," Filippeschi Great" De Muro, Labo very good. I hope we get a great tenor or at least a very good one in days to come, but as time goes by, it seems as if it may never happen
There are so many voice technicians on the page, but so fewer singers today that are good. I don't believe that today's singer's study enough, or correctly and then are being pushed into heavy roles early in their careers or roles that are not suited for their voices. For example, ''Richard Tucker" did not take on the heavier roles until he was in his mid forty's, giving his voice a chance to grow and a chance for him to master his technique. Lecitra,R.I.P. was a fine lyric spinto tenor but took on Forza at a comparative early time in his career and did NOT do well in the opera.The older school tenors, With exception's" waited for their voices to mature before taking on heavier roles.
Spot on. Agents should be shot. And staging primacy needs to pass back to the musicians and NOT rhe stage directors who have too much influence. Young students are in many bad hands - there is bad and inconsistent technique taught in many universities/conservatories. A view ...
@@advocate1563I think you must be right. My guess is that Forza demands a higher salary than Boheme. The responsibility also falls on the singer, as the singer should know whether he's ready for a role or not.
This is so true. The main problem nowadays are casting decisions. Lyric tenor are being cast for Wagner. Of course they will sound bad trying to sing dramatic repertoire. It is like if you had cast del monaco to sing duce from rigoletto.
@@falkfink It's true, but MDM did record the Duke, but never sang it on stage. It's always interesting when a tenor sings something outside of his repertoire, and leaves himself open to criticism. I would say that Pavarotti did this, and perhaps managed the heavier roles, but did not thrive in singing them, as a Tucker Corelli or MDM have. Gigli was perhaps more successful in doing this, with Chenier, Forza and Gioconda, but not in Aida. Of course I'm am siting some of the greatest tenors of all time, including Pavarotti
We have two extremely different recordings here.
One, is captured in the studio, others live.
In one, there is a microphone feature, and in another the voice is in full use. I don't think that comparison is reasonable! so much so that in theater recordings you can see that Corelli does use the mask!
Ok, I agree BUT : Kraus is singing 1 tone higher here and, even if he had a slightly nasal sound, at the final acuto he makes A WONDERFUL " SÌ" SOUND not nasal at all. And also if he had such a fatiguing technique how was he still in great shape at the end of his career?
Agreed. And it's frankly ridiculous to compare him at 60 + years old with a 30 year-old Schipa to try to make your point convincing.
Yo compare Schipa with Kraus is ridículous. Kraus was very much better in volume, extensión, legato, and beauty of the voice. No comparison posible.
Sorry. Is to compare
All great artists,but completely different in delivery of voice,there is no question or reason to discuss,just listen and enjoy,Rene
It should be noted that the experience of a singer while singing (that is his/her sensations) and what is actually happening in the organs of song have no necessary relationship. There are fine singers who have found their voices through "mask resonance" images and others who have been quite as successful who have found a similar adjustment of the instrument through what are virtually opposite images. The perception of the singer is often the least reliable gauge of what is actually happening in the body of the singer while singing. Singing in the mask is a commonly used image, but used as the only focus of attention it can lead to a tight, pinched production. The "open throat" is also a common pedagogical concept, but persisted in for a long time without mitigation can result in a too dark, woofy tone that won't carry very well. Learning to sing can be a treacherous path and a good teacher tailors the teaching to the student's needs as he/she develops. Many singers have no idea how they do what they do. Some have the sense to avoid teaching until they learn more than just how to sing themselves.
Singing is indeed difficult. A teacher once told me that "some singers sing well despite what they do wrong".
A singer may sing with "mask resonance", which actually is non existent, It is just a constriction of the throat. But it is a wrong sound. A marring of the sound. Great singers like Pertile and Merli did that. I love their voices, but that aspect of their singing is incorrect. Thank you for your comment.
It should be noted that there are a variety of experiences that feel like what might be described as "mask resonance." It is an example of the difficulty of someone who, after a long period of serious study, has developed a technical basis and can do many of the things that singers do with some degree of skill, tries to describe to someone without his backlog of experience and discovery what it is that he does. I believe that singing is not nearly so hard to do as it is to find. The constant relating of the sensations of one singer after another can provide a confusing array of material that, unfortunately leads to nothing for many students. That is why a systematic approach based on more than sensations is necessary. Sensation occurs after production. It is not an easy puzzle to untangle, but there are reliable methods.
Thank you for your reply. It is interesting to read the things posted here-even some of the nonsense.
I'm sorry to be responding after so long a delay, but I've had little time for the internet lately. It is certainly true that a sensation of "mask resonance" can be experience as a result of a constriction of the throat. As a matter of fact, I believe that William Vennard made reference to this in his well known, but infrequently understood text on singing. He referred to it as "twang" and characterized as desirable in its less objectionable forms. It does seem that the best singers make use of the pharyngeal, post nasal, possibly nasal spaces in proportions that produce well balanced tones throughout the voice. This requires great functional freedom and flexibility and a good underpinning of breath management. It does seem that some large number of singer do find their vocal coordination through some concept of resonance and the above mentioned parts of the anatomy do seem to be involved. This is not universally the case, however, and so the universal singing method eludes us unless we actually know what we are doing. The fact that some teachers seem to always produce positive results and others do not could help us here. I'm reminded of a joke I heard some years ago that should give us pause, however. It seems that a successful tenor had returned to his hometown and was asked to give a master class. An attendee asked him,"To what do you give most credit for your success?" He replied, "I studied with all the worst teachers possible and misunderstood everything they told me."
Haha.
Sorry, sometimes TH-cam does not inform me of replies. Thank you for your valued comments.
I also think that so much emphasis is placed on position and resonance, then function gets ignored. Resonance is the result of function. Function, its development, balance, and coordination has suffered a lot from many modern forms of poor teaching.
It is quite clear the most important formants are resonated in the pharynx. The quality of those sounds are dependent on the quality of the mechanism function and its efficiency. People generally just work on the voice people have instead of developing the voice via isolating and developing the registers.
I just made this video. Which explains things further. Tell me what you think?
th-cam.com/video/2N5q85G3ydk/w-d-xo.html
I appreciate your comments.
Your comment about working on the voice that students already have interests me. I taught for over twenty year in a small department at a "Liberal Arts" college/university. Few of the students in that environment actually expected that significant transformation of their voices could be accomplished. Only a few approached their potential level of improvement even though their progress often exceeded their expectations in spite of their self imposed limitations. One student in particular stands out because at her last lesson in my studio she sang a couple of phrases following some instruction and had a sudden breakthrough in freedom. She exclaimed, "Oh, I get it now. You want us to sing in an entirely different way." She left, accepted her degree, and never returned. Too bad. The conservatory student seems to expect more from his/her study. Vocal growth means change, muscular development, and improved coordination. The result is greater that the sum of its parts. I enjoyed the video. I'll write about that more later.
WOW BEAUTIFUL
When teachers talk about putting the sound 'in the mask" (and Nilsson does it in a TH-cam Master Class) I think they are generally just trying to overcome the natural tendency to sing 'ingolata'. (I have read that Schipa travelled with trunks full of transposed orchestral parts.)
A good point. Unfortunately when the person tries to sing more in the mask they depress the larynx more probably via the tongue.
If you think one way you get a counter push in the opposite direction. Which is a downward depression onto the larynx. Creating two conflicting actions fighting against each other. And one shouldn't lower the larynx from above down.
The larynx wanting to rise for singing forward is also trying to counter the depressed action as well. Becoming more ingolata as with the Nilsson Masterclass example.
Ingolata is an imbalance and constriction not the result of "singing in the throat". It sounds "throaty", but it is not what people say.
As my videos prove, all sound is in the throat. Sound is created in the larynx and resonated in the pharynx. Different sounds, mask and throaty, are the manipulations and constrictions of the vocal tract and mechanism. Including the tongue that create these different sounds.
It was common for singers in the past to sing repertoire at pitches comfortable for their voices. It happens today as well. A slight transposition is quite acceptable. It is healthier for the voice to change things slightly to suit ones instrument. I think if you can express an aria or opera better by making it a half tone lower. It is justified.
Fernando De Lucia used to make ridiculous transpositions of multiple whole notes changing the character of the composition.
@@RadamesAida2Operalovers I agree entirely about the historical appropriateness of transposing. The Schipa story just seemed amusing. With that lovely timbre who needs strained B's.
Terms... Terms… I went to “This is opera” to refine some terms in your dictionary. You have brought up a very important subject and have given very convincing examples. But the conclusions from them can be interpreted differently. I think I have deadly arguments against some of them. Terms, as we know, are not disputed, but negotiated. First, let’s go to the meaning of some terms in your interpretation.
The term "Girare" obviously means covering passing notes when the melody moves up. At least as I understand it. I suggest using terms more familiar for vocal-pedagogical practice in future:
“Chest voice” is the most capacitive sound resulting from the lowering of the larynx.
“Clarity” is the desire for complete, without reduction and wrong additional sounds, pronunciation of vowels, giving good intelligibility.
“Girare” is the mechanism of covering open vowels on the passing and upper notes.
Around “Girare” you build your classification of three vocal types. This classification is real, but some of the conclusions are questionable.
The biggest confusion makes the term "Mask," which you somehow unambiguously interpret as the "nose sound." However, following Corelli and Guelfi, who also believed that the mask and nose were the same. This is strange to hear that from the singers who sang successfully in the mask themselves.
I could give many examples of the singers singing on a low larynx and not in the nose, while sitting firmly on a clamped throat. You have samples like “Girare” type two.
If, with a strong respiratory support, you do not create the corresponding impedance of the horn, consisting of the mouth and throat cavities, the voice will still inevitably sit on the throat.
Opera singing with great intensity is always associated with the concentration of vibratory sensations in the front of the face. At the same time, the soft palate can be both raised and closed the input to the nasal cavity and lowered. But it leads to very different results. Therefore, I propose to clearly distinguish the present singing "into the mask" without lowering the soft palate curtain and false singing into the mask with the palate curtain lowered and deflecting a large part of the sound energy into the nasal cavity.
One comment had already been heard that Rosa Ponselle, when she was asked: "How do you feel that your voice sounds the way it should?” replied: "By the way you can feel it at the front of your face - that's what we call a mask. When things go right and you're in good condition, there's a feeling that the sound is slipping off the front of your face". This singer-female didn't sing in the nose. The concentration of vibration sensations in the front of the face is quite natural, because only through the mouth the sound energy is emitted into the space. And this feeling will be common to all singers regardless of the type of their voice. The undeniable fact that there is a danger of replacing the vibration sensations in the front of the face with stronger vibration sensations in the nasal cavity cannot be denied. This is the main danger, because the localization of vibration sensations is almost the same - in the front part of the face, and in the case of nasalization they can be even more pronounced.
Into space, through the nostrils, the sound energy is emitted poorly (as when singing with a closed mouth), so the energy of high-frequency sound oscillations in the nasal cavity is simply lost. Distracted from the fact that the timbre is deteriorating (which can be considered a subjective estimate), this mode is not energetically beneficial, because a certain part of the sound energy that is created by the phonatory bands is deflecting into the nasal cavity and there it is lost for the listener.
Since the size of the horn is small, in most cases the distance from the larynx to the lips is 20-23 cm (sometimes with professional singers when the larynx is low - up to 25 cm) the cut-off frequency of the horn is within 2300-2500 Hz. This means that high horn impedance, which is achieved only at frequencies above the horn cut-off frequency, can only be realized by the singers who have original larynx spectrum of these frequencies.
So, high horn impedance occurs only at frequencies of high singing formant (above 2500 Hz). The release of sound from the open mouth into space is a strong inhomogeneity for sound, so at these frequencies there is a reflection of sound back to the phonatory folds, i. e. here the standing wave maximum occurs. Here is the zone of increased vibrational sensations! Vibration from the the upper palate across the facial bones extends to the area covered by the mask. So the vibrational sensations in the mask become an exact indicator that the singer uses a vocal technique of high impedance, that is, he sings with great strength.
On the other hand, as determined by Raoul Husson, a useful phonatory folds protection mechanism is further included due to high impedance loading.
The mask is not only an absurd term since the voice resonates on the pharynx not the face, it's one that has made singing become worse worldwide through decades. Why would anyone defend it's use as a proper term is beyond me.
To my 'not-as-discriminating-ears' as others here, it seems that not singing in the mask produces a brighter and more forward sound --greater projection if you will?
And singing in the mask is almost as if swallowing the sound a bit. Is my impression way off base? Or at least partly correct?
it is largely correct! :)
i am sorry Kraus's singing sounds artificial to me and very shallow, no depth missing the (ciaro scuro)!!!! On the other hand Schipa sounds very natural!!! more full & beautiful!!! I think people misunderstand the term sing in the mask and that is why they sound very nasal with no full depth of the sound!!! Perhaps when Kraus was younger he sounded much better!!! But the technique should preserve you voice if it is correct and healthy not damage it with age.
@@RadamesAida2Operalovers
YES I AGREE, OVER ALL HE WAS A GOOD SINGER!!!
Del Monaco had no squillo? Come on...
Comparan a Kraus que ya ronda los 70 años en esa grabacion totalmente en vivo y a Schipa con quiza 30 años, y en un filme de pelicula, una comparacion ridicula y desventajosa para Kraus por su avanzada edad. Pongan un video de kraus cantando los puritanos en plena forma haciendo esos magnificos sobreagudos. Ya quisieran muchos tenores llegar a la edad de kraus y cantar asi de bien.
Y aún con todas esas desventajas, Kraus empata con Schipa en esta aria (sino es que le gana).
La voz de Tito Schipa, aunque mucho más antigua que la Alfredo Kraus, suena mucho más limpia y relajada. Lo digo a título personal, no soy cantor de conservatorio pero tengo el suficiente sentido común para opinar cuál de las dos me gusta más, ya lo dije al principio de mi comentario y sobra repetirlo.
Alfredo kraus Put the voice in mask. The point of the video!
La voz de kraus suena artificial.
Eso es verdad, estaba pensando lo mismo, a pesar de tener una milagrosa longevidad vocal, la voz de Karus joven era mucho mas fresca, más fácil la emisión. El Kraus de este video canta sólo gracias a la técnica, el ahí ya está cerca de ser un anciano, en cambio Schipa era jovencito y la voz le fluía fácil como a Kraus de joven. Igualmente los dos fueron los tenores ligeros más importantes del siglo XX, aunque la voz de Schipa era más corta que la de Kraus, Kraus tenía re en muchas grabaciones, y Schipa no se si llegaba al si natural...
I´m nuts about Schipa!
Marvellous. Couldn't agree more. Why do so many singers, French in particular, seek mask resonance?
Because they think it is key to good singing. Fallacy. Thanks for commenting. I am glad you enjoyed the video. I have one more video to come, in this series.
Also, there is many nasal vowels in French but they don't need to be put in the mask.
André D'Arkor o Leon Escalais cantaban perfectamente, sin usar la máscara
I can't listen to Zucker. Bye. But see the YT video "JOAN SUTHERLAND/MARILYN HORNE ON SINGING AND TECHNIQUE" for sensible advice. It's odd how Corelli's speaking voice doesn't 'anticipate' his singing voce at all, while Bastianini's speaking voice sounded exactly like his singing---a gorgeous deep resonating baritone.
Interesting!
I understand the point of this video, yet is not correct to use an elderly Kraus to prove the point. I feel great respect for these two wonderful tenors, both were amazing. Please, next time, use another way to make the point. There are so many others that could have been chosen in order to make the point.
I think you need to account the age of Tito Schipa vs Alfred Kraus. Alfred is already at a mature age. And also the venue. Alfred is performing in a concert while Tito is performing for a film probably. The variables are different. But maybe I am wrong.
Ni la técnica ni la voz de Kraus y Corelli tenían que ver, pero sí la de Kraus con Schipa, que emitía en la máscara, aunque con mayor apertura que Kraus. Corelli canaba con la laringe muy baja, según dice, por eso en los días peores había algunos entubamientos, pero a partir del pasaje, diga lo que diga, la voz, pese a la apertura de la boca, se dirigía a la máscara y aprovechaba todos los resonadores de la cabeza: escuchemos por ejemplo los si bemol de Chenier. Kraus practibaba más el coperto, por eso las vocales anteriores sonaban perfectas, y más costosas las velares, justo lo contrario de Corelli, que destimbraba un poco las vocales llevándolas hacia la o y no podía con las vocales anteriores en las notas muy agudas, por lo que, por ejemplo, cambiaba el orden de palabras en la cavatina de Norma para evitar la i sobre el do. Tampoco tienen que ver nada los volúmenes de la voz, ni la densidad, ni la anchura, pero lo que Corelli conseguía con una anatomía privilegiada, lo alcanzaba Kraus con el vibrato y la impostación que daba a su sonido un carácter timbrado e inconfundible, capaz de hacerse audible, pese al volumen modesto, sobre las masas vocales y orquestales.
Kraus nasal, Schipa bel canto
@@jaimereyes8861 Compara el do de Schipa con el de Kraus... Nada que ver. Schipa era maravilloso, pero también nasalizaba un poco, y después del pasaje la calidad de la voz...
Schipa and Kraus are both legendary singers and they are both excellent here. Kraus is no longer fresh of voice here but the pitch, the line and the direct presentation of the aria are admirable for a man in his sixties. Schipa sings with sensitivity and great artistry, albeit, a half tone lower than written! He started having trouble with high notes midway through his career and started using transpositions. Not a big deal when you can offer so much more with your singing than just high notes. But it does make you wonder if it was his technique or just the nature of his voice which was the reason for this decline. In this comparison then, is mask singing a la Kraus better for a long career than non mask singing a la Schipa? I say, just enjoy and be happy you have singers like these!
Vocal decline is due to many factors. Watch the video again to understand its objective. You are examining all things irrelevant to the video. mask singing is unattractive and a step down from good singing, good function.
GeneralRadames to compare that sings in original key and ships that sings one step down. yes this is a great job
A singer needs to get their volume and sound foreward, which is done by releasing the jaw and the larynx, aswell as flattening the tounge. This is a hard thing, making us tense those places while thinking of it, but if we rather think of a place around out eyes (outside the mask), then the PROPER mask technique comes into the picture. Automaticly, the jaw falls down, the larynx falls down and the tounge is flat. If we think only to tighten the nose, the sound will not be masked, but nasal.
With releasing from the placement thought, the sound goes foreward and sounds beautiful. The voice is then free and does not any constriction
wonderful video, thank you very much for enlightening us. i think that nasality in most singers' voices made me dislike opera for many years until I discovered the legacy of old generation - Corelli, Del Monaco and others. What would be your advice on how to avoid nasality, especially in the first stages of learning belcanto?
in the first stages of learning Bel Canto you use The Vowel U to open the mask and collect the voice, the mask is the place to sing. If you like to know about Bel Canto buy the book of Anthony Frisell, i think nowerdays there is no more real Bel Canto teaching, we need to find it again. Nasal sound must come from muscular participation that is not solved, guess some muscles in the trought close and make the sound appear nasal, anyway the Voice must ring there to be great.
Corelli says it without compromise: don't sing in the mask! Although my teacher also says that you must feel the vibrations in this area, but just on the level of your internal sensations, not objectively. thank you for mentioning this book.
Agree 100% When trying to sing in the mask usually we push our voice. Mask resonance should be a result of good technique.
Thank you Alex. Pressing the fingers on both sides of the nose is indication of nasality, not mask singing.
Vowels are shaped tone. We resonate and amplify this shaped tone. Something the mask cannot do. The mask cannot shape itself to resonate a vowel. The throat cum mouth can. Ignore the front of the face. Concentrate on the tone (Vowels) being in the mouth and pharynx. The sound is already created, you cannot influence it after it is made, which is what mask singing is about. But, you can concentrate on creating the vowel, tone, pitch. Which is combined together as one. I am happy to show you anytime.
tenore profondo, There is NO mask resonance. The mask has nothing to do with good singing. It is a subjective sensation based on no science or sense. Good technique has no mask resonance as it is an aural fault, like nasality and throatiness. Watch all my videos. th-cam.com/play/PLegXiifkkTxYs_emctmh9Ngfd5rB4ZlBV.html
Tito so much more natural to me.
Both let the sound ring in the mask. But the man in the B/W video lets the sound ring down to the chest as well while the other is neck up. This is why one sounds free and the other sounds like he’s using a lot of strength to accomplish the notes. It is sound technique regardless of a step down or up. Definitely a clear difference. The free and clear sound will always ring more.
There is no down, or chest, or up, or head. Watch my other videos. It is all a manipulation of the throat and larynx. I am in the process of doing a new video which will show what happens in the throat. It will be great.
Also watch this video. th-cam.com/video/2N5q85G3ydk/w-d-xo.html
Mask helps you to get upper resonances (ring). Properly done, it's not nasal but simply open and free for the upper formants. Singing without or with few upper resonances is very tiring and detrimental in the long run. Let it ring! Effortlessly.
It is our perception that it is upper? But in fact it cannot go past our mouth pharynx region.
I feel my "mask resonances" actually in and above the palatum, which I open upwards a little (like a nasal yawn). In order to do so I imagine (!) hooking my voice above a slight grin. It works very well as I immediately get a nice and safe ring.
Think about it. Sound, when produced, goes everywhere it wants to or where it can go. Sound travels in a column of air. Watch this video i just made. th-cam.com/video/2N5q85G3ydk/w-d-xo.html
If you feel things in the mask you are probably having some constriction, because good singing should feel disembodied. You have no sense of position other than the pharynx and larynx. There is no sense of bodily walls or structures.
You may think the sound you produce is good, but it doesn't mean it is being produced at your potential. The voice is very flexible and can produce a myriad of sounds and can be manipulated to do many things. We have to work towards correct healthy function.
There is also a confusion by people between ring and constrictive buzz, which is also metallic in character.
Squillo comes from a muscular function, not a position. Even though there may be similarities. Many times people try to make a position to get a sensation, however they introduce constriction as well. Thanks for your comment.
You cannot actually control sound. All you are doing is manipulating the throat to get sensations. Which is a recipe for bad singing.
Exactly. It’s about letting it ring not placing it there. And General Radames, the reason why you feel it up there is bone conduction of sound
Kraus was nasal at the end of his career, but not for at least the first 25+ years.
it is kind of unfair to put young schipa against old Kraus.
@xu wang Exactly! Kraus was great when he was younger, and for most of his career. Schipa didn’t have a terribly long career because he wasn’t able to sing after the war as he had supported the fascist regime in Italy.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 I did not know that at all. I heard Gigli did, what a horrible act. That tarnishes one's fame and reputation, it also hurt me to hear this, since Schipa's voice was crafty and gorgeous.
There are many ways to show mask singing vs good singing, easier to pick other straight forward samples. But I was lured by the title of Corelli talking,
@xu wang I mean, this is right, Kraus did sing in the mask in the 1990s, but his technique only deteriorated after about 40+ years after singing with great technique.
@@xxsaruman82xx87 40 years!!!
Kraus is a top choice, one of my favorite spanish tenors, a lot better than 3 tenors at least. Should be celebrated more.
Schipa è stato un caposcuola assoluto
Corelli, schipa e kraus tre miti. Chiunque osi criticare la tecnica di kraus non va neanche preso seriamente
gotta love people accusing Kraus of having incorrect technique while using a video of him still singing wonderfully in his near 70s LOL. what it comes down to is that Corelli said he was "not impressed" by Kraus which is totally subjective. that's fine, not everyone will like everyone. I know some people who find Corelli to be clumsy while I find him to be surprisingly agile. at the end of the day this is Corelli's opinion
Kraus had a good technique. Singing in the mask is not part of it. When he was younger he did it less. Mask singing is not good.
Corelli did not actually say anything about Kraus. To my knowledge he never said anything about, their repertoire were on the opposite side of the spectrum.
Have been enjoying your videos. Thanks. But this is a little biased.
There is more than one correct way to sing. An old Alfredo Kraus in his 60s is probably not the optimal illustration for a demonstration of mask placement. It is possible to do without being nasal. Gedda, Lemeshev, Thill, among the more notable examples.
Thank you. Of course I am biased. The aim of the video is to demonstrate mask/nasal sound. Kraus especially demonstrated this in his later years. Age is irrelevant to the video. Lemeshev, Koslovsky and most Russian singers sang nasally. It can be done with minimal damage to the voice, but it is unattractive. Knowing the right sound is integral to good singing and teaching. The better people hear things, the easier it is for them to sing better.
To clarify, I do not disagree with anything Corelli said here, stabilization of the larynx is fundamental and essential, where to 'place' the voice is more of an aesthetic choice, than anything else. Attempting to direct the voice into the 'mask' without proper breath support or stabilizing the larynx, is when it becomes harmful, which is what I think Corelli was alluding to here
Sorry, I was deleting some spammers and I deleted some good comments by accident. The whole purpose of the video was to demonstrate wrong sounds. Age isn't relevant to it. Kraus was a fine singer. For me, even Schipa could have sung with more depth to the sound.
I do think there is one correct way to sing. Like one correct way for a machine to work. The way the mechanism was built for. Unlike a machine, the mechanism is very flexible, so it allows for many variations or inconsistencies to occur. So, someone can sing reasonable well, but still have a fault like nasality.
Corelli does say singing in the mask is wrong, Forcing it will do more harm. If the voice is supported it is okay, it wont do the damage. However, the sound of singing in the mask is unattractive and produces a wolf tone.
I am doing one more video to demonstrate this with anatomical and scientific examples.
I do appreciate your replies.
With my total respect, I would like to say that there's no way of singing without mask resonance. What can be considered is that Kraus used to direction his sound more to the position of "i", independently of which vowel was being sung. Actually, if someone sings A, E, I, O, U without pushing/pulling the ressonance place to other place, just sing as he/she speaks, will feel that U sounds at most external point of the mouth, followed by I, E, A, O (O is the most internal one).
The sound is produced by air passing through vocal cords, and is amplified by the nasal cavities. Comparing to an acoustic guitar, our vocal cords creates the vibrating air as the guitar cords. At guitars, without the wood ressonance box this sound is very small. The ressonance box of humans is the head, with its nasal cavities. When the larynx goes dow, the singer increases the space that the sound will have to vibrate, so it increases the sound volume, exactly as it happens when you play a bigger guitar, it sounds more volume than a smaller guitar. But also gives to singer the feeling that the voice came from the chest. But there's no chest ressonance, it is just a "sensation" that is deceiving singers and voice teachers by decades. What are lungs? Flesh and liquids. How a bag consisted by flesh and full of water and blood can resonate? No, there's no chest ressonance. Yes, there's the "chest voice", that is the voice produced with lowered larynx, but the ressonance is happening at the mask. Just the sensation of ressonance comes from the chest, it's just a feeling, but the sound is amplified at the mask.
Back to the mask ressonance: the most beautiful sound that a singer can produce is when he/she uses the point of mask ressonance without pushing it to other place as it sounds naturally, as it happens at the speaking voice. Speak U, I, E, A, O (in this order) and feel that the ressonance comes from more external to more internal of your mouth. This is your natural voice, that is, the most beautiful voice you can produce. Never sing differently of what your speaking voice is. If you do so, you will be trying to modify your voice to something artificial, that is necessarly uglier than the natural voice. You must fall in love with YOUR voice, before going to sing.
If I may join you in this interesting talk, Corelli is giving, is he not, clarification as to the singer's positive control, not the effects of such control. He is saying that the singer does not strive to "reach the mask with his voice" (or manipulate resonance at all, hopefully) but can only secure the attack with a strong lead of the larynx, which necessarily will achor itself in the downward leaning of the voice towards the sternum (provided great breath expansion, and suple disposition of all vocal machinery prior to attack, as we know). Leaning more into that subglottal sensation throughout the whole process will render the voice broad, ringing and forward or, in maschera! He says: "più la butti in basso con forza più sale verso al alto".
Also, are there many "correct ways"? If you proceed to force your voice into the mask (so popular these days), that is, to manipulate resonance, you will surely lose freedom, regardless of age. "M'appari" requires the singer to be placid, sweet, edge-free. If you push into the mask instead, it will be harsh and a bit violent (like poor old Kraus), lacking grace and freedom of movement, possibly ridiculous, but mainly, it will be an incorrect interpretation of "M'appari", despite the singer's understanding of interpretative requirements, and despite how used we are by now to the more-often-than-not awful renditions of opera. :)
Corelli speaking voice is rather opposite than how he sings. He speaks nasally with a high larynx, and thin tone. Interesting.
That is the other person, Steven Zucker, speaking alongside Corelli
@Daniel-pb1xe no, I know Zuckers destroyed "voice" very well. ( he has been on the scene forever) Corelli's voice ( Zucker has NO VOICE) is tiny, unlike his singing.
2:20, Hines
3:39, confronto Schipa Kraus
Schipa....meraviglioso
Shouldn’t there be a comparison of Kraus and Tito at the same age? The song for this example is the same but it’s comparing a young guy to an old man whose voice is past his prime but still good
What kind of comparison is that!?
One singing in a low tonality and the other in a higher...Same tonality or nothing.
It's not far apart. The nasality makes it sound even higher.
@@brandonburrell8517 Cierto.
krause really straining nasal makes you strain throat constricted.
SCHIPA,IS SINGING THE ARIA ONE STEP DOWN, FROM KRAUS,
So?
Peter Christopher likely the recording is a half step down not the singing, probably due to tape speed, but he was likely singing it in the original key. It's fairly rare to see operas transposed, so it's probably just the pitch of the recording
Mike Beltrandi I doubt it. Schipa was well known for lowering the scores.
Can anyone explain what happened to stefan zucker's voice?
Low Testosterone+ some disease
@@vitormrmr testosterone has nothing to do with it lol
Kraus era tedesco? cantava molto bene, io non la trovo una voce nasale, per me era perfetto, Dio.. è impressionante vedere una persona di aspetto tedesco cantare cosi bene, è già, anche i tedeschi sono grandi, non c'è nulla da dire. Quando decidono di fare qualcosa bene ci riescono e sfiorano sempre la perfezione, mi piace questa attitudine in un popolo.
Era spagnolo
Padre austriaco e madre spagnola.
Schipa is, of course, incredible, but is this a fair comparison? Schipa is singing a half step lower than Kraus, who is singing in the original key.
Would the half step change anything?
You should consider that the tuning in Schipa's times was different.
No, it does not matter to the technique question... all bad modern excuses!
GeneralRadames It changes a lot. I'm surprised you ask that question. Having said that, if you intend to show that Schipa is a better singer than Kraus, then we are in agreement.
Pitch inflation is a real thing. Both were singing in the "original key", but from their time's perspective.
Kraus is 1/2 step higher
Absurda comparación... Schipa "tenore di grazia" limitado (admirado por su bella voz y fraseo) y Kraus tenor lírico ligero con una técnica muy depurada. (admirado por cantar hasta sus últimos días en el escenario sin bajar de tono ningun aria) Ademas la comparación con el medio tono es verdaderamente ridícula, precisamente porque la tensión laríngea es mayor en Kraus que en Schipa que nunca la hubiera podido cantar a tono usando ésta técnica bella, pero muy limitada. Alain Vanzo es similar a Kraus, si valdría tal comparación ya que la técnica es la misma.
Totalmente en acuerdo.
Kraus incluso llegó a cantar algunas arias aumentandoles un semitono. Aunque es cierto que no daba el fa de credeasi misera, pero porque ya no era parte de su voz "completa" y no dominaba el falsete.
Schipa también cantó arias altas (como las de La favorita, Lucia, Barbiere, o Sonnambula)
SE DEBE DE CANTAR CON LA MASQUERA Y CIN CON VOZ APOYADA LLEVADA DESDE LA COLUMNA DE AIRE
Yes. I think also the interviewer couldn't have been more wrong with the first statement. Having absolutely no clue!!!
Muy discutible que Schipa no enmascare el sonido. No tanto como Kraus, pero... Escuchemos como suena "il pensier...", "che il mio cor..." Además, la a, o, u..., las echaba para atrás, por eso el sonido con la o y la u también se le destimbraba un poco. Kraus seguía siendo, con 70 años, un cantante mucho más completo, con un legato y fraseo no inferiores a Schipa en ningún caso, y pianos siempre apoyados, por lo que no se le caía la afinación. No filaba como Schipa, lo hizo de muy joven, pero luego adelgazaba el volumen, pero sin pérdida de calidad en el sonido, algo que Schipa hacía de una manera exquisita, pero no tanto..., y con algún problema para mantener la afinación... Entiendo que el timbre de Kraus no guste, era peculiar, ciertamente, y, por naturaleza o técnica sonaba palatalizado, pero nunca caprino. Y no voy a entrar en la calidad del agudo, cantado además en un tono superior.
If you think his voice is awful , listen to his voice in this video:
th-cam.com/video/j2hd_2m1qXE/w-d-xo.html
Tito sounds superior too my ears.
I doubt Corelli would have given this guy an interview - this was a montage editing Corelli's voice into a Zucker recording.
Corelli and Zucker were good friends
You are dead wrong. They were good friends. Zucker made many interviews with Corelli also video ones.
@@MrSoerenbager
Then how do you explain an accomplished or even brilliant singer / artist giving his time to another singer? with such terrible ability and such an unnatural speaking and singing voice who should never be even allowed to opine on proper singing technique.
If Corelli actually ever heard him sing would he not mention to Sugar that he sounds like the village idiot ?
@@sugarbist Right they where, he is guessing of course and there are more interviews with Zucker .
@@hthomasackermann Dear Thomas, Franco Corelli and his wife Loretta, use to baby sit for Stefan Zucker when he was a child. Even though Zucker had a strange singing and speaking voice, there were many famous opera singers he interviewed, including Grace Bumbry, Jerome Hines, Kraus, Eugenio Fernandi, Tagliavini, Virginia Zeani, Bidu Sayao, Fisichella, Bergonzi and many more. Enjoy
Sometimes nasality in the voice isn't enough to remove all of its good qualities. However, there are no big voices that sing with nasal technique. If they do, you notice it immediately. The only singer I can think of that succeeded in making heroic tones in spite of his nasality was Richard Tucker.
Tucker was NEVER nasal . He got great reviews at the Met and was lauded when he sang at La Scala.
Richard Tucker was NOT nasal. He voice placement was fine.
I think you are mistakening "twang" which is the same a "squillo" and is what makes the voice travel, for Nasality.
despite the age among the two tenor examples...Krauss sound beautiful.
Two things, you can't compare Franco corelli to kraus, KRAUS NEVER TURN DOWN THE KEY HALF STEP LIKE CORELLI DID, in 1972 CORELLI STARTED SINGING LA DONNA È MOBILE IN SIB, CHE GELIDA MANINA IN SI, ETC EVRYTHING WAS TUNE DOWN, WHEREAS MAESTRO KRAUS ALWAYS SANG IN THE CORRECT PITCH, UNTIL HIS DEATH...
It seem like you have a lot of comprehension issues here. Corelli did not say a word about Kraus. The person who made the video compared Kraus to Scipa. Only someone who knows nothing about opera would compare Kraus to Corelli, they sang repertoire on the opposite end of the spectrum. Kraus had a very light voice, perfect for leggero repertoire. Corelli had a very big and heavy voice, with weight on the lower register, perfect for heavy repertoire. La Donna E Mobile is not Corelli’s repertoire he never sang it on stage, and it goes up to a high B not a high C. Kraus sang Tosca, which was not his repertoire, and it was completely underwhelming. Which is not surprising, tenor categories exist for a reason.
Why does he sound like Grover?
an interview on voice technique with that voice?? Ironic...
"Chi sa ben respirare, sa ben cantare". Please, friends: 1 - read Tosi, Mancini, Lamperti, and other Italian Masters. 2 - Listen to Beniamino Gigli, Lauri Volpi, Tetrazzini, and other Italian singers. 3 - Listen to old and modern singers, and observe it. It's easy... Per carità, cari amici: 1 - Leggete i trattati di Tosi, Mancini, Lamperti ed altri Maestri italiani. 2 - Sentite Beniamino gigli, Lauri Volpi, Tetrazzini ed altri cantanti italiani. 3 - Sentite gli antichi ed i moderni cantanti ed osservategli. è facile...
I personally believe that the breath has a lot to do with it.
Breath, the study of languages, the study of different styles, etc... For example, the traditional italian school and the called "verismo". In both, the tecnics must be exactly the same. If you are leggero, or lirico puro, or drammatico, it's necessary the NATURAL development of the voice. I disagree when Corelli says the voice in mask is a problem... Listen to Gigli...
It's easy you say? I would like to hear you singing.
@@rinaldopepe1255 concordo pienamente con te. Anch'io non capisco Corelli in questa intervista, quando dice che il suono in maschera é un problema. Chi sa respirare e sostenere, sa cantare: questo lo diceva sempre Magda Olivero e, ancora, prima di lei, il grande baritono Cotogni. Credo che il canto sia: diaframma, gola aperta (mai spingere), suono in maschera, alto e libero. Quando la voce é piena di armonici e il suono é proiettato in avanti. Soprattutto, ammetto di fare difficoltà a capire Stefan Zucker e il senso del suo lavoro. Verso la fine degli Anni '90 ha realizzato un documentario sulla voce di petto, praticamente esaltandola. Concordo con chi la definisce una condanna a morte certa: abbassa drasticamente e irrimediabilmente il tetto degli acuti. Una voce formata solo sul registro acuto é incompleta e serve a ben poco, ma l'emissione di suoni non sul fiato, di petto, é pericolosa. Durante le interviste per il suo lavoro Zucker si stupiva di come mai proprio Giulietta Simionato e Fedora Barbieri fossero contro l'usanza della voce di petto...
Totalmente de acuerdo.
Schipa is perfectly in maschera.
What is the mask ?
Is the "Twang", is the same thing. It means placing your voice in your nose and letting it resonate there. What the mask does (not nasal) is protect the voice from damage, by closing the vocal cords and also facilitates belting. However, this technique, although not bad for the voice, is completely useless in opera.
La comparaison qui montre Tito Schipa comme un chanteur qui ne pratiquerait pas les sons dans le masque est stupide, c'est ce qu'il enseignait notamment en faisant vocaliser sur N + aw
Two very very bad examples for right singing. The secret of singing is neck, pharynx and larynx. Because every human being has fully different proportions on these body parts. Corelli found after long searching his right positions in mouth. DM also found but for coloring voice darker he pressed on it. He paid the price. Corelli asked how to sing right he answered” sometimes more open sometimes less open”. In the Innersten of your mouth and neck you find the secrets. Search and find.
Hacer esta comparación con Schipa y Kraus es una equivocación, (Kraus admiraba a Schipa) al margen del tono de la grabación y la diferencia de edad se sabe que la voz ha de ser natural sin disfrazar las consonantes, un cantante en estos casos ,profesional canta con la voz natural y segun que pasajes "pasa" la voz en maschera, aun que siempre esta ahi, es como cantan los grandes con la voz natural no engolada pero siempre colocada esta "tecnica" se nota en Del Monaco, Corelli, Pavarotti, etc. Pasa a veces que el cantante al hacerse mayor en años utilice siempre la postura en maschera como hacia Kraus y por ejemplo el Gran Giacomini pero esto no quiere decir nasal, cuando se canta nasal y lo podeis comprobar por vosotros mismos es que cuando esteis haciendo un fa o un sol agudo si te tapas la nariz no cambia el sonido de la nota, hay cantantes que cantan natural ( con el sonido cubierto) Giuseppe di Stefano por ejemplo y el referente más evidente es la voz más bonita al natural que ha existido Jaime Aragall de cuya voz le decia kraus, si yo tuviera tu voz hubiera sido el mejor tenor de todos los tiempos. He tenido la suerte de escuchar a muchos de estos tenores a muy poca distancia, Kraus en La fille du regiment, Doña Francisquita, La Favorita etc. Aragall en Un Ballo in Maschera, La Gioconda etc. y fue espectacular. Podeis escuchar a Todisco que sin que este entre los más nombrados tenia esta manera de cantar natural y pasada , aunque despues hay los gustos de cada oyente y el tipo de voz que le agrada. Gracias.
SERGEI LEMESHEV is NEVER DISCUSSED and HE WAS RUSSIA'S GREATEST TENOR. KRAUS IS NO COMPARISON
The Russians were very good and very talented. The main problem I have is the nasality.
@@RadamesAida2Operalovers lemeshev was not nasal
@@santisramos5832 he was. But not too nasal in his prime. However hr was a great artist and could almost what he wanted with his voice.
@@Tkimba2 i don not here it. The thing is that liric leggero tenors use headvoice to sing
Schipa is singing in a movie, kraus is singing in a theater, with orchestra, is not possible to compare this two performances
You are completely right. And Kraus in his 60s and a young Schipa...
This does not matter and not contribute to the question. Only bad excuses!
He is still singing mask. Does the venue or age have anything to do with how you do something? Your comment is idiotic.
Zucker's voice almost sounds like Julia Childs
I think it boils down to taste... and its ok to like one more than the other. I for e.g. prefer the warmth and quality of Schipa and it sounds less strained to me. Karus is too sharp sounding, too bright for my taste and gives me an ear ache. Having said that, there NO DOUBT that Kraus is an incredible singer, and has a great pair of chords and technique that are the envy of many many tenors. When he was very young, he sounded less in the mask than say this video. I just prefer the sounds of Corelli, Pavarotti and Schipa. And you may prefer Corelli, and thats perfectly fine!
Non si deve comparare Schipa a Kraus soprattutto nell'ascolto dell'aria dalla "Marta".Kraus la canta in tono,mentre Schipa l'abbassa di mezzo tono.Non è cosa da nulla.M'apparì è un'aria difficile e Kraus la sostiene con facilità e bel fraseggio.Se Schipa l'avesse cantata in tono pensate che il risultato sarebbe stato lo stesso?Schipa,purtroppo,già a 40 anni doveva abbassare "Ah!Non mi ridestar" perchè la natura non gli aveva certo dato una mano nell'estensione.Io sono un adoratore di Schipa,ma mi chiedo se cantasse ai giorni nostri come potrebbe cantare Sonnambula,Don Pasquale,Rigoletto,e altre opere nelle versioni integrali e in tono.Cosa che invece ha fatto Kraus nel corso della sua carriera.Ogni confronto mi pare inutile,anche se affascinante.Pensiero mio,ovviamente.
Credo che avrebbe ridotto il suo repertorio a pochi titoli.
Lo scopo del video è di far ascoltare la differenza tra il suono nasale il suono più naturale. Non ha lo scopo di premiare questo o quel tenore per l'estensione, o per gli acuti! Non credo tu abbia capito lo scopo del video.
Can someone help me?
Should or should not sing in the mask?
A music professor told me that my voice is in the mask and that it was good, but the truth is I'm confused.
Zucker voice so womanly
e Schipa canta mezzo tono sotto
Spingere nel naso non vuol dire cantare in maschera. Spingere nella laringe non vuol dire cantare, vuol dire gridare. Spingere non va bene. Si canta sul fiato che, con naturalezza, sfrutta l'intera cavità fino ai risuonatori. So che comprenderlo non è facile ed ancora più difficile spiegarlo. Fare cambiare idea a qualcuno è addirittura impossibile. Paragonare Schipa A Kraus, a questo scopo, mi sembra di una ingenuità imbarazzante.
According to Britannica, mask singing was introduce in mid-19th century (not mid-20th century). That means, virtually all recorded singers had and have a technique that involved singing in the mask. "The development of the orchestra [...] in the 19th century encouraged singers to seek means of amplifying their voices by methods of resonation unknown in the bel canto style [...]. Jean de Reszke, who emphasized the function of the nose in resonation, was the main exponent of this school." My humble opinion is that Corelli had a different conception of what mask singing was; similarly, Fedora Barbieri denied having sung in chest voice, then proceeded to sing in chest as an example of what the correct emission should be. Yet I'm not trying to say that the modern technique is the same as in the early 20th century. Changes were, are, and will always be happening in the history of music and singing - sometimes for the best, sometimes not; but that is already a different subject.
What you say proves nothing. Barbieri denying chest voice has nothing to do with Corelli's statement. A very dangerous comparison. It is called A "red Herring".
I am sure there were people at many stages of history that sang very masky and advocated it. That does not mean the sound is well produced or sounded better.
The sound you produce is a choice. Why choose a sound that is nasal, or throaty or unclear. It wont make your voice any better to try to stick it in a place.
The singing voice like speech is spontaneous and flexible to the needs of the text,music and expression. Otherwise, it sounds rigid and fixed like the Kraus example. His voice lacks the impression of spontaneity.
I went to 'Britannica'. Do not trust an Encyclopedia or Dictionary for facts on the voice. It says the voice is resonated in the cavities of the chest . "on the chest and head cavities, which have the function of an amplifier," www.britannica.com/art/singing
There are no cavities in the chest. And neither the chest or head cavities are resonators that amplify the voice. See my other videos on the mask. Go to my playlist. The sound is resonated in the vocal tract.
My comparison was inconsistent. What I meant was that the terms used in singing had not been universally understood as nowadays. That's why it is impossible to understand how a singer from the baroque period, for instance, would sound like exactly. An example is the term "vibrato"; it clearly relates to a wavering sound, but if the authors that mentioned the word were talking about the modern conception of vibrato, the non desired wobble, or the "polemic" tremolo/caprino is not clear.
Why should one not trust an Encyclopedia concerning specific topics? Most credible sources I found also regard chest resonation as being untrue though; nevertheless it could be an oversight by the writer(s), and proving a single point as false does not automatically deem the other points untrue.
I had watched all your videos before I wrote that comment. William Vernnard and Johan Sundberg mention the pharynx and the most effective vocal resonator; the oral and nasal cavity as the second and third respectively.
could someone please make a transcript of what Corelli is saying? I can't listen to that disgusting noise, nothing against Stefan Zucker personally but his voice makes me feel physically ill.. :/