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Sharpcap 3.1, Altair Astro 183M hypercam sensor analysis for Gain/offset settings .

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มี.ค. 2018
  • How to find the best GAIN/Offset/Exposures for your new Altair Astro camera.
    using SharpCap 3.1 sensor analysis.
    rcfmitch.wixsi...

ความคิดเห็น • 105

  • @lauradurkin362
    @lauradurkin362 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for this video. I just ordered the Altair hypercam 183M and I am even more excited about its capabilities now! Very good explanation of a subject that someone new to using a ccd, such as myself, might find pretty intimidating.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Laura, you will love your AA183MM , it is so sensitive , 84% QE, will you be using filters ? L-RGB ? keep me posted...

  • @dcarey26
    @dcarey26 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Liking Sharpcap more and more...

  • @dilipsharan8699
    @dilipsharan8699 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video. Thanks for sharing

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      IM glad it helped.

  • @danielmunozluna4666
    @danielmunozluna4666 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for this great video.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      YOU ARE VERY WELCOME...

  • @rogerwilkinson2818
    @rogerwilkinson2818 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mitch, I followed your Chanel for a while and have read some of your questions about gain and offset on another forum. Did you get to the bottom of the best gain to use with nb filters? I have the same camera but info is hard to find

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      that is a hard question to answer , but for me and the 183IMX i stay at Unity Gain (400) and use 60 offset/blackpoint , the just keep increasing the exposure until i hit over 100 ADU or i leave the Left wall in the histogram so im not clipping any black. what has worked was 300sec !! hope that helps. Keep in mind i use either NINA or SGP for NB. SHO

    • @rogerwilkinson2818
      @rogerwilkinson2818 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik thanks for the reply, off the bat I started with 300s but have been using gain 600. I also use Nina and find the mean image value to be very close to that of a bias frame which I think means I need to increase offset which I left at default of 45 especially when I have been shooting Sii. I have yet to use the sharpcap image exposure tool, does it work on narrow band filters?

  • @ericdiebold8674
    @ericdiebold8674 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    'Read Noise Limit': how much percentage do you recommend ? 10% ? 5% ? 3% ? 1% ?
    The unit exposure time varies a lot depending on this value !

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think the question is more how much are you allow to put up with ?
      in my case 10%. this changes the Gain values to a higher number.
      i let my sky dictate what my exposure will be regardless of gain.
      th-cam.com/video/rQAXVwE_nvY/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Cuiv%2CTheLazyGeek

    • @ericdiebold8674
      @ericdiebold8674 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you !
      How do you explain this: I live in a city and I have contrast values for the sky brightness of only about 0.5 e/pixels/sec.
      The curve in the histogram is very tight on the left.

    • @ericdiebold8674
      @ericdiebold8674 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The gain doesn't change ! (100). I use the camera ZWO ASI 2600 PRO. If y pu 1% for read noise, the unity time increase and the curve shifts a little (but not much) to the right of the histogram. If I take 10% (and more) for value to the 'read noise', the curve is very tight on the left of the histogram...

  • @NMHC1978
    @NMHC1978 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the hypercam is it fan cooled or do you have the tec cooled one

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      used to have 2 non cooled and 1 TEC cooled.

  • @redabdab
    @redabdab 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    19:27 Actually there was a brain there before (see 3:01). Maybe it just didn’t do anything before you ran the sensor analysis?

  • @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio
    @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi !! The fan must be on and the temperature low ?? Thanks

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not for sensor analysist.

    • @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio
      @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BrokenPik :) Thank you

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio What camera do you have?

    • @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio
      @ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BrokenPik QHY 294M pro....Just completed the sensor analysis, but I think I forgotten the fan activated....I think doesn't matter..

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ManosZafirakis.ShapeMixStudio no worries , what the program needs is the light /camera sensitivity, to record the read noise / ADU values. based on those values it can estimate your sky condition and report back a good exposure time/Gain.

  • @aluginbill6182
    @aluginbill6182 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video. I have new version of sharpcap and it’s asking to measure red green or blue? Which should I picked when I measure?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  ปีที่แล้ว

      I have no idea what that means. please be more specific as to what your are trying to accomplish. thank you.

    • @aluginbill6182
      @aluginbill6182 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BrokenPik when I run the brain function on the histogram. It asks if I want to measure the red green or blue channel of my osc camera. In your video when you measure with the brain function it doesn’t have those options. I assume the updated version of sharpcap lets you measure individual channels of osc cameras. I get different exposure times depending on what channel I measure and not sure which I should be using. For example I’m shooting eagle nebula and when I measure red channel it suggests 136 sec exposures. Green channel suggests 59 sec exposures.

    • @aluginbill6182
      @aluginbill6182 ปีที่แล้ว

      I’m using the zwo 533mc

    • @aluginbill6182
      @aluginbill6182 ปีที่แล้ว

      In other words it doesn’t measure my camera as a whole. It’s splitting the channels. But since I cant just shoot with certain channels not sure why this does that?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@aluginbill6182 wow that's confusing. if your talking about sensor calibration, then can you use LUM (white/rgb combined) and not individual channels.. BTW are you calibrating with a white Tshirt?? now i might have to revisit this after 5 years .. lol

  • @rickcrume739
    @rickcrume739 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    can you turn the volume up

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      i just checked , it is at a good level. unless your hearing impaired ! try CC caption.

  • @woldsweather
    @woldsweather ปีที่แล้ว

    Why is 400 gain the best to use?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  ปีที่แล้ว

      its not, really, but it is Unity Gain for this camera , or 1 electron / per ADU. ( low noise)and good Dynamic range.

    • @woldsweather
      @woldsweather ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik Can you explain what Unity gain is and how you arrived at 400?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@woldsweather i arrived at 400 based on Altairs astro gain graph, it not my number, . its on their website for the AA183MC.

  • @BrokenPik
    @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi

  • @DawgcityClev
    @DawgcityClev 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Am I to assume you can run this test with filters mounted? Let's say a Duo narrowband for ASI294mc pro? If so this is an incredible amount of info that I was always looking for. I always go out and wonder what gain/exposures should I use. I can run this test a couple times, and get an idea at least since I use a wifi box and not a laptop anymore.

  • @BrokenPik
    @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว

    rcfmitch.wixsite.com/altair-support please consider voluntary contribution for my work... thank you.

  • @lachezarkrastev7123
    @lachezarkrastev7123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Ohhh maaan, I am doing complicated things all my life, but this is soooo complicated for a hobby purposes. Anyway - thanks for the efforts you are making. I doubt I will try this ...

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      its not that hard... put a light source on the scope , then put the cap on when asked then put the light back on , and your done...

    • @lachezarkrastev7123
      @lachezarkrastev7123 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, but the interpretation of all the data and what we should use finally - I am even more confused now. Which is better high or low gain ...

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@lachezarkrastev7123 Oh ok , i got it , once you are done with the Analysis and you paid for your copy of Pro, you hit the Brain on the histogram and let the camera choose the best settings for your skies that night , once that's done just hit apply. and start your imaging night. the program choose your best gain and offset plus your exposure time based on how good/bad your skies are.

    • @lachezarkrastev7123
      @lachezarkrastev7123 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks - I will try it. I have the pro version.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lachezarkrastev7123 Sounds good..

  • @deetee-uk
    @deetee-uk 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can I do more than one camera. After analysis of different cameras, does the measurement tool in histogram base the results on the specific camera connected.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That is a great Question.. please post that on the Sharpcap Forum ...

  • @paulbarrett423
    @paulbarrett423 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    scratching my head but enjoyed the tutorial, just cant make head or tail of my readings (zwo asi1600) my gain of 100 is giving me a FW of 6031.90 and read noise 1.77

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Don't worry about the SC output readings, your ASI10600M cant be shot at Unity gain and just vary the exposure based on your shot noise ( Skyfog) ... typical is 60-90 x 120 sec in SGP.. Gain 139/21 offset.

    • @paulbarrett423
      @paulbarrett423 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BrokenPik thx for the very quick reply

  • @stevewilson1935
    @stevewilson1935 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    An excellent tutorial that I have followed as far as completing the Sensor Analysis - awaiting a clear dark sky to do the Sky analysis part. I noted on the video that your suggested of 100 never changed despite you changing the exposure length. If the 183M has a Unity gain value of 400 as per Nick of Altair Astro guidance, how does that impact the readings for adjusting camera settings to meet the Sky Level ? Are you able to force the tool to accept 400 as the gain level to see impact on other settings ? Hope this doesn't sound confuding.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ok, lets simplify this... once the sensor testing is done , it Set and Forget... So from now on when you go outside , run the BRain and let it find the Sky glow limit of your SKy and accept its values by selecting APPLY , at that point according to SC Brain it will have chosen the best Gain Offset and Exposure for YOUR skies. that being said , you can always increase or decrease your Gain or black point as you wish BUT there is faith needed that SC 3.1 chose the right exposures Gain and BP for that night based on your selection of 60 sec to 5 minutes subs . hope that helps if not ,, ask again.

    • @stevewilson1935
      @stevewilson1935 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Cheers for the quick response Mitch - thanks.

  • @Aburicu
    @Aburicu 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Together we learn

  • @astrogerard2022
    @astrogerard2022 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It analyses the camera and the sky BUT how does it know what object you are gong to image as they can be different levels of brightness as well?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The target matters not (maybe M42) because if your skies are real bad you will get the wrong sky fog limit and get nothing but a nice gray image (washed out) , on the other hand if your skies are dark and you run the IA then you will get the right Exposure/Gain settings ... In fact, if your skies are real bad you will still get the right Gain/exposure time for your LP location . its all about SNR, no matter the target ...

  • @jaq1967
    @jaq1967 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sensor Analysis: I'm guessing there is no reason why you can run this tool without connecting the CMOS camera to an OTA? Seeing it is likely you'll be using your camera on more than one OTA you're ultimately testing the sensor and not the OTA's? Nice video.

  • @gollondblack6247
    @gollondblack6247 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very interesting thanks for the video cheers.

  • @bradleywright5274
    @bradleywright5274 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    can I use this with 2 cameras will it save settings for my mono hypercam and my colour hypercam or will I have to run the sensor analysis every time I use a different camera thanks

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      it only needs to be done once ... i have both cams too.

  • @mangoldm
    @mangoldm 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    To be clear, this still doesn’t answer the question of how long an exposure can go before blowing out detail in your target, right?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      If you use the recommended Gain and Exposure ( offsets ) then you wont be able to burn out the stars , and the target either Galaxy or a Nebula, the problem some ppl run into is setting the Gain way to high then saturating the stars and losing data thinking they are going to get more details when in fact its the opposite. what you need is a low Gain value +a long enough exposure with good dynamic range.. and you get that with 4-8 hours of integration or 90 ~300 subs ( being short , under 60 sec)..

    • @mangoldm
      @mangoldm 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Astro Dude so how do you factor this in when imaging, say, the Owl Nebula vs the Orion Nebula?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      good point , i was generalizing , you have chosen extreme target at opposite ends of the light spectrum in intensity... if your new to astrophotography....then you may fail many times till you figure out that those 2 targets need 2 totally different exposure times but not Gain, for instance M42 might need 10 sec on the trapezium 30 sec on the innerloop and 60- 90 sec for the outer loop then combine those subsets in Pixinsight.
      As far as M97 it can use all the exposure you can give it . 2-3 hours is very good , its bright. per say.
      so i would shoot 180 x 60 sec @ 400 Gain and an offset of 40 in Sharpcap or APT 3.54. or more in SGP ( gain wise).
      More Gain destroys the data by introducing more noise and lowers the SNR ... les is more with the Sony BSI 183~IMX chip.

  • @dilipsharan8699
    @dilipsharan8699 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi I really enjoyed this video. Answered a lot of questions. By the way what was the name of the refractor you use?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      i have 2 the small AT72ED and the Altair Astro 115MM F7 EDT.

  • @M31glow
    @M31glow 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    so, you ran the test as a simulation. In your opinion, would you have time to run this on the real sky at dusk? Or, would the quickly changing light levels interfere with the results. I would think it would unless the software takes changing light levels into account. Any thoughts. By the way, this was a great video, thanks for making it!

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      the test was not a simulation i s was run in real time by going to a constant reliable light source then putting the cap on then taking it off again. then you have the CMOS chips sensor readings , like Gain Read noise , DN , and other things needed for a proper night of imaging. HItting the brain in the histogram now analyzes the sky fog limit and give you the right Gain and offset and exposures for the best dynamic range of any targets.

    • @M31glow
      @M31glow 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik I understand that you actually did the test, I did not mean to imply that you did not - sorry. I did not do a very good job of articulating my question. So here is take 2. You used an artificial light source to simulate a not too bright sky. In your opinion, does this influence the results of the test. Would it be better to do this with the real sky at dusk or dawn?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ah ok , my bad also. the answer from the Maker is . simply no, its not like we are looking for "flats" condition, what the software is asking ""please provide a constant light source so i can Max out the gain and calculate the read noise and sensitivity of the chip"" based on the outcome ( and it will never vary because SC 3.1 constantly changes the Gain during the report)
      now it can determine your sky glow limit.
      hope this helps. you only run this test once then you forget it , and use the BRain at night.

    • @M31glow
      @M31glow 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik Genus! Thank you so much for the explanation

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      please try it out and let me know how you make out.. Cheers

  • @ernestjoyner1553
    @ernestjoyner1553 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    What are your recommended settings for the gain and offset (black level) or is it also different from one scope to another?

  • @tomross7552
    @tomross7552 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did this with my QHY163C after paying the extra £10 for Sharpcap Pro but found it VERY picky on light intensity....I usually do my flats in Nebulosity 4 with a electro luminescent panel only and have had good results in the past.
    However when trying it with this routine it kept coming up with a message like 'exposure times are getting very short try reducing the light source'..then shutting down..so I then used a doubled up tee shirt over the objective as advised and put my panel on top....
    This time is came up with messages like' exposures at low gain are getting very long...consider increasI ing light source'!!
    It did still carry on though so I stuck with it and it did complete....but with only 6 crosses on the graph (6 gains measured)
    Am still no wiser though which gain and offset settings would be best to use.
    I

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      did you start with the lowest Gain settings? then work your way up until SC was happy with the light intensity? if it ended ok ..
      now you go outside and pick a dark part of the sky , fire up the histogram and a new BRAIN icon will show up on the left. click on it enter a few settings and let SC makes the GAIN / exposure / offset values for you it will do that by analyzing your SKy fog limit. . then just hit Apply !!! thats it..
      let me know once you try it outside.

    • @tomross7552
      @tomross7552 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi Mitch...yes started with gain 0 ...didnt get to the actual sky background level bit due to rain...will keep udated when get the chance to experiment further

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      kool , cant wait..

  • @DrewSams1962
    @DrewSams1962 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you tell me which filter wheel, you were using with the AA183M. I am seriously thinking of getting one of these bad boys. Thanks

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      go here and ask the same question please.. facebook.com/altair.astro/
      or here facebook.com/groups/altairastro/

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      did you get an answer as to which filter wheel you can use?

  • @llamarvasquez1803
    @llamarvasquez1803 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Had a question when you’re measuring the sensor are you supposed to have your filters on for narrow band and LRGB when doing the sensor analysis? Thanks

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      i don't think that this was Robin s intent, the idea was to find out how the sensor react to light/dark source , this way it can find the read noise values and e- per ADU from zero Gain to Max. once that's done it can calculate the optimal gain and exposures given the condition of your sky fog... as far as narrow band is concerned , this not the way i would calculate it...

  • @Pipe-organ-recordings
    @Pipe-organ-recordings 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really good. I just did the test using my ipad as the light source, it was weighted green though it looked white to me. Do you think that the results I got were valid?
    How do you override it so it default to shoot FITS and not movies. Thx

  • @Sweatsox8
    @Sweatsox8 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic video, that you for taking the time to explain this new feature. When doing the sensor analysis, should this be done without any filters?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      you need to run the histo-brain each time you have to put a filter on or not ... so if you do.... it will adjust accordingly if you have no filter it will also adjust according to your sky fog/limit. :-).

  • @M31glow
    @M31glow 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    do you happen to know of a US distributor, I can only find UK suppliers??

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are you referring to the AA183 Color/mono hypercam ?

    • @M31glow
      @M31glow 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik no the Altair Hypercam 183M PRO TEC COOLED

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Oh ok... contact this guy.
      905-487-6363
      sales@ontariotelescope.com in Canada...

  • @PaoloBanci
    @PaoloBanci 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is the measurement of the brightness of the sky done without mounting a filter for light pollution?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      the sky measurement should be done with filter on, but i don't think that applies to narrow band imaging. where normally this program should Not be used.

    • @PaoloBanci
      @PaoloBanci 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BrokenPik UHC-s L Baader filter

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PaoloBanci that should be fine but your exposures may be calculated longer then with no filters at all.. but no worries there..

  • @ernestjoyner1553
    @ernestjoyner1553 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    For the Altair 183 color camera

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes and other CCD also like the ZWO and ASI...

  • @parishna4882
    @parishna4882 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm just using my webcam to try and capture the stars in any capacity, but cannot find any way to use this software unless I have a 500 million terrabyte drive... :/

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      i don't see why not, click on the "start Capture" select "Time Limit" choose 30 sec, of video, push "Start" and it will give you a short Avi of you target. probly under 500 MB. depending on you Fps (30 ) ish

    • @parishna4882
      @parishna4882 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BrokenPik I was trying to make a timelapse video of the stars moving across the sky and night changing to morning, OBS records large files, but this does it in 1 minute. Guess it's just the default cam settings for me. I know I wouldn't get the best results, but this program looked perfect, till I saw the file size. Shame you can't just change the codec or use a different codec..
      contrast and brightness maxed out is better than nothing, i guess.

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@parishna4882 Understood...

  • @markm75
    @markm75 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What model light pad is this?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Doesn't matter... any Amazon tracing pad will do,,,

  • @stekovi
    @stekovi 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    What's the light panel you use?

    • @BrokenPik
      @BrokenPik  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      i was using a tracing tablet.. but have since gone to the sunset with white t-shirt for my flats so that the color is dark green as it should... the tracing boards give off false light (red, purple, beep blue ) the sun is free. and makes great flats.if you hit about 30-40% histogram...