Excellent presentation! It has been a long haul for Lilium but the team, the discipline and the validated data is really shining. Thank you for sharing and for doing it in such a succinct and precise way. Daniel (and I mean this as a compliment) sounds like he could recall the data in his sleep😂🎉
Great presentation I must say. I work on batteries at one of the competitors you mentioned, and I've got to say you guys are my favourite. It's great to have a high caliber competitor in the industry like you, and super inspiring. I truly hope you guys succeed in bring your vision to life
A lot of comforting words and slides...but why was there no manned flight with the latest prototype? Why starting up production, when manned flight (let alone with payload) is still not achieved?
Lilium should show how long they can keep their toy model airborne and if its not impressive they should try something else before making a prodiction plant to make big ones.
Interesting, presentation. So effectively the Lilium is an eSTOL with limited eVTOL capability to reduce takeoff and landing distances down to zero. I would be interested in understanding more about practical operation. Can we perhaps see some simulations of typical Lilium takeoff and landings to understand what contingencies need to be considered? Perhaps with simulated failures to show the decisions that have to be made? In the hover power figure [1] used in the presentation, I am not sure how the hover powers were actually calculated. For the quoted 60kg/m^2 for propeller eVTOL I get: Power = 9.81 m/s^2 * sqrt( 9.81 m/s^2 * 60 kg/m^2 / (2 * 1.225 kg/m^3) ) = 0.152 kW/kg So the stated Lilium 0.62 kW/kg hover power is about 4 times the propeller eVTOL hover power (with these being typically twice helicopter hover power). That said, if Lilium is operating as an eSTOL with limited eVTOL capability to reduce takeoff and landing distances to zero then 175km range seems reasonable. Ref: 1.Maisel,M.D., Giulianetti,D.D., Dugan, D.C. 2000. The History of The XV-15 Tilt Rotor Research Aircraft From Concept to Flight. NASA SP-2000-4517. NTRS
I do not understand why Lillium doesn't just buy batteries from Amprius.. My understanding is 300wh/kg vs 450wh/kg.. 50% density increase! More than 50% flight range increase!
Because they also need to take into consideration other factors like power and life cycles. Maybe the Amprius battery has a higher energy density but can only sustain 200 charge-discharge cycles compared to lilium's 800-1000 therefore making unit economics non-viable, or maybe the power needed for take off exceeds what those batteries can provide. Everything needs to be in a delicate balance!
with such high power demand during hover, really wondering how they will manage energy reserve as not yet fully specified in new EASA ops rule for enhanced eVTOL, lot of scenarios and risks to figure out for eVTOL manufacturers and certif authorities... case like balked landing will require sufficient energy to complete at least one missed approach and re-attempt landing, also including sufficient supplemental power for a short time to be defined, in the event of one or multiple inoperative engine due to failure, (even if they demonstrate it's a 10-9 event). This remain quite different from current AEO/OEI concept for chopper with 2 turbines and the 30min reserve which is well understood from a safety and certification std point. I'ld not be surprised that current EASA possible extension of MTOW of 3.1T for eVTOL is due to lack of confidence to have enough reserve...and so the 3175kg MTOW target may change.
I would like to know more about it's battery since even with alkali metals group I or II metals and boron or aluminum reacted with halogens to carry around waste products pushes designs to limits.
The advertised range of 300km flight range at launch is NOT HAPPENING! What exactly is the good job here? The aircraft will “potentially” get 275km range in 2035 - 12 years from now. This makes me question if you watched the whole presentation at all?
I wonder what performance advantage over Lilium other eVTOL aircraft like the Joby would have with those batteries and why they are not using them. Probably there is a reason...
Lillium's are 300wh/kg right? Vs Amprius 450wh/kg.... and the Amprius batteries have high C power delivery. IMO Seems a no brainer to get amprius batteries instead.. So if other manufacturers do this they shouod have a big advantage over Lillium.
Why such a low glide ratio? I'd be pleased to see a L/D of say, at least 30 and a bit higher battery/MTOW share like 40%ish. Double the range and mute haters... or something like that
did you think about a combining of the concept of an axial magnetic flux motor - like the one's from Yasa or Magnax with an impeller in a way that the impeller and motor is one combined part? as far as i know, the motors from Yasa are close to 98% in efficiency from 10 to 90% max rpm as i saw in a datasheet that i downloaded two years ago. combining an impeller with an axial magnetic flux motor outside of the impeller could bring extreme weight savings. and of course you might even could recuperate energy when landing if horizontal speed is very high. maybe this could even be used for an emergency landing procedure.
If they didn't take a ton of power during hover flight wouldn't they brag about it and you wouldn't need to guess? They would release positive real results.
@@avigator You're clearly a half wit. $2.00/km is the starting cost for Lilium which is cheaper than current intercity taxi rates. Current rates are $3-$7 a mile. It's also far superior because it's faster. It will also become cheaper over time. You trolls don't know when to stop embarrassing yourselves in public. Get a clue dunce...
Dude, commercial air travel is also “for the rich”. Get a grip. I’m sure the costs per passenger will be about the same as a short regional flight on a small jet plane.
Paper hope always sound good. Now make the darn thing fly carry people and payload for a few hundred miles. geez, the stock is in the toilet and you keep showing hypes without practical success.
Very nice to finally get a lot of technical details on the jet and the batteries. Exciting developments! Keep up the good work.
Excellent presentation! It has been a long haul for Lilium but the team, the discipline and the validated data is really shining. Thank you for sharing and for doing it in such a succinct and precise way. Daniel (and I mean this as a compliment) sounds like he could recall the data in his sleep😂🎉
Great presentation I must say. I work on batteries at one of the competitors you mentioned, and I've got to say you guys are my favourite. It's great to have a high caliber competitor in the industry like you, and super inspiring. I truly hope you guys succeed in bring your vision to life
A lot of comforting words and slides...but why was there no manned flight with the latest prototype? Why starting up production, when manned flight (let alone with payload) is still not achieved?
Great update! Good luck!
Wonderful that Lufthansa is helping
Well done lillium 😂 exiting times
Amazing, fantastic! I think maybe I love Germany and German engineering. I have never wanted to work for someone more than Lilium.
German over Engineering
Very informative. Thank you!
Lilium should show how long they can keep their toy model airborne and if its not impressive they should try something else before making a prodiction plant to make big ones.
Interesting, presentation.
So effectively the Lilium is an eSTOL with limited eVTOL capability to reduce takeoff and landing distances down to zero. I would be interested in understanding more about practical operation. Can we perhaps see some simulations of typical Lilium takeoff and landings to understand what contingencies need to be considered? Perhaps with simulated failures to show the decisions that have to be made?
In the hover power figure [1] used in the presentation, I am not sure how the hover powers were actually calculated. For the quoted 60kg/m^2 for propeller eVTOL I get:
Power = 9.81 m/s^2 * sqrt( 9.81 m/s^2 * 60 kg/m^2 / (2 * 1.225 kg/m^3) ) = 0.152 kW/kg
So the stated Lilium 0.62 kW/kg hover power is about 4 times the propeller eVTOL hover power (with these being typically twice helicopter hover power).
That said, if Lilium is operating as an eSTOL with limited eVTOL capability to reduce takeoff and landing distances to zero then 175km range seems reasonable.
Ref:
1.Maisel,M.D., Giulianetti,D.D., Dugan, D.C. 2000. The History of The XV-15 Tilt Rotor Research Aircraft From Concept to Flight. NASA SP-2000-4517. NTRS
So based on this, in theory it cold work :-)
Blessings. Go truckers and railway workers. Cleveland
This is all good, but when are you going to go into service?
Robert L. Morison's patented lighter than air solids "SEAgel" or "biofoam" sealed in metal foil for hull fuselage aero space frames?
I do not understand why Lillium doesn't just buy batteries from Amprius..
My understanding is 300wh/kg vs 450wh/kg.. 50% density increase! More than 50% flight range increase!
Because they also need to take into consideration other factors like power and life cycles. Maybe the Amprius battery has a higher energy density but can only sustain 200 charge-discharge cycles compared to lilium's 800-1000 therefore making unit economics non-viable, or maybe the power needed for take off exceeds what those batteries can provide. Everything needs to be in a delicate balance!
You have clearly not watched the video. Please go back and watch it
with such high power demand during hover, really wondering how they will manage energy reserve as not yet fully specified in new EASA ops rule for enhanced eVTOL, lot of scenarios and risks to figure out for eVTOL manufacturers and certif authorities...
case like balked landing will require sufficient energy to complete at least one missed approach and re-attempt landing, also including sufficient supplemental power for a short time to be defined, in the event of one or multiple inoperative engine due to failure, (even if they demonstrate it's a 10-9 event). This remain quite different from current AEO/OEI concept for chopper with 2 turbines and the 30min reserve which is well understood from a safety and certification std point. I'ld not be surprised that current EASA possible extension of MTOW of 3.1T for eVTOL is due to lack of confidence to have enough reserve...and so the 3175kg MTOW target may change.
Elon Musk sagte, Lilium sei eine gute Technologie. Es ist Zeit, ein endgültiges Angebot abzugeben.
Why no mega watt charging MCS? How long will a charging stop take with only CCS?
I would like to know more about it's battery since even with alkali metals group I or II metals and boron or aluminum reacted with halogens to carry around waste products pushes designs to limits.
*This is going to make those battery trolls heads explode in frustration* 🤣 _Well done, Lilium_
The advertised range of 300km flight range at launch is NOT HAPPENING!
What exactly is the good job here? The aircraft will “potentially” get 275km range in 2035 - 12 years from now.
This makes me question if you watched the whole presentation at all?
Lilium is a huge scam. Talking about batteries will not change that.
Why would they need to talk and guess and project when lilium is making the video? Thet would just show actual test data and fly and unedited flight.
Someone bought in early and lost their ass
I wonder what performance advantage over Lilium other eVTOL aircraft like the Joby would have with those batteries and why they are not using them. Probably there is a reason...
Lillium's are 300wh/kg right? Vs Amprius 450wh/kg.... and the Amprius batteries have high C power delivery.
IMO Seems a no brainer to get amprius batteries instead..
So if other manufacturers do this they shouod have a big advantage over Lillium.
@@timtravelnomad they need a magic battery or maybe a zpm from stargate.
Why such a low glide ratio? I'd be pleased to see a L/D of say, at least 30 and a bit higher battery/MTOW share like 40%ish. Double the range and mute haters... or something like that
Anyone knows if they are certifiying under "Basic" oder "Enhanced" ?
Very basic non enhanced
did you think about a combining of the concept of an axial magnetic flux motor - like the one's from Yasa or Magnax with an impeller in a way that the impeller and motor is one combined part?
as far as i know, the motors from Yasa are close to 98% in efficiency from 10 to 90% max rpm as i saw in a datasheet that i downloaded two years ago.
combining an impeller with an axial magnetic flux motor outside of the impeller could bring extreme weight savings.
and of course you might even could recuperate energy when landing if horizontal speed is very high.
maybe this could even be used for an emergency landing procedure.
Nope, they didn't even put in a flux capacitor.
Der Motor ist doch schon in der Propellernabe oder nicht?
If they didn't take a ton of power during hover flight wouldn't they brag about it and you wouldn't need to guess? They would release positive real results.
Chapters?
an air taxi for the rich 💸
A few years later, affordable for all money earners. Little by little we are making progress. It just takes a while. Tesla also needed time.
@@ScrabbleMUC You don’t seem to know a lot about direct operating costs in aviation, do you?
@@avigator You're clearly a half wit. $2.00/km is the starting cost for Lilium which is cheaper than current intercity taxi rates. Current rates are $3-$7 a mile. It's also far superior because it's faster. It will also become cheaper over time. You trolls don't know when to stop embarrassing yourselves in public. Get a clue dunce...
@@avigator Why should I? I welcome this new way of getting around in a few years. It's nice when something changes.
Dude, commercial air travel is also “for the rich”. Get a grip. I’m sure the costs per passenger will be about the same as a short regional flight on a small jet plane.
stop blabla and look at the stock value...
It's a discount. Make sure your stupidity keeps you from taking advantage and make us giggle some more 😉
Maybe a good time to invest. ;-)
@@AB-fh3zcits a no brainer at these prices...
Paper hope always sound good. Now make the darn thing fly carry people and payload for a few hundred miles. geez, the stock is in the toilet and you keep showing hypes without practical success.
Maybe that's the sign to buy some stock now
Not a Jet !!
You're obviously a half wit. It's certainly a jet
It is a jet, take a better look at definitions.